The HP servers came with bare drives and a boxed Red Hat AS 2.1. There was no MS Windows CD. Though as I said, these servers were given to us as a thanks for the very expensive SANs. I would assume they came the same way as if we would have purchased them for Linux servers.
I don't know if Dell does it for thier home PC's, howver the do use some non-standard crap on thier workstations. I have 3 Dell Optiplex PC's and 1 Precision in my office. The power supply went on one of the Optiplexes and I wanted to get it back up fast. I ran down to CompUSA to expense a power supply and brought the old one. I could not find any power supply to fit. It had to be ordered from Dell. Also, the Precision I have uses some crappy duagher board which again, prevents me from using most standard cases if I wanted to put it in some other non-Dell box. Don't get me started on the insane price Dell charges for memory.
Where I work we have a corporate support contract on the Dell desktops so we have to go through Dell to get our memory. I wanted to add an extra 512 MB of RDRAM and Dell wanted over $500 for it! You can get it on the net for half that price. The same thing for DDR. Go to Dell's site and customize a PC and add about 256MB of memory to one. They will charge you over $100 when you can get in on the net for $40 or so.
Also, pray that as a home user you never need to call Dell's tech support. Your getting routed over to India and if you don't speak Hindi, your in for a rough time.
While I cannot stand MS, I'd have to agree here. Dell is so far up Billy boys butt, it isn't even funny. I think Dell just offers a few poorly packaged PC's without MS software in the same manner that a teen would rebell against his/her parents.
I personally think that only HP, IBM and Sun are any of the big boys PC makers that offer real non-MS products. We just got in some multi-million dollar SANS from HP and they threw in a bunch of dual Xeon 3.2 GHz w/HT, 2GB, 136GB U320 Raid 5 Linux servers. HP has Open Source drivers for the Gig cards and even drivers/software for thier HP Lights Out management app for the Linux servers. With Dell you don't get any of that.
It seems odd that MS would hand out CD's of UNIX Services for Windows at a Linux show. Not that long ago MS was saying how the GPL is a "cancer" and yet they include GPL'ed software in their UNIX Services for Windows. I guess the GPL is OK if it helps the bottom line of MS and a "cancer" if it is any competition to them?
If you were talking about the desktop, then sure. Linux is still geared more for someone that is a little bit more technically savvy then your average MS Windows user. However, I think your age range is off as well. I am 31 and have been using Linux for everything at home for many years now, though I am a programmer and more experienced with a computer then Joe User. I think your statement would make a little bit more sense if you had said it about your average non-technical home user.
It is not pointless. Linux is USED for all the multimedia in the device and not MS Windows. The DVD, TV, FM, etc are all handled by LinDVD. This allows the device to boot really fast when you want it for multimedia purposes. If you want/need to do normal desktop stuff, that is when you boot up full MS Windows.
The drawback to the Win-TV 250 is it does not have tv out.
I am looking into building a MythTV box, what is the point in having the tv out? Why not spend $3 and get a cable splitter and have your cable go to your tv and the MythTV box? Is there any advantage to having the tv-out on the PVR-350?
Linux doesn't care if there is no floppy. My laptop is floppy-less and Fedora Core runs just swell. I have never had any Linux puke on my laptop because there is no floppy.
I've got backups of the software...but I absolutely dread the day my hardware dies (I hope I outlive it).
Is the $12 a month a mandatory fee if you don't get the lifetime subscription?
Why do you dread if your Tivo dies? Is the lifetime subscription tied to one Tivo unit? If so, that is crap. What if you want to upgrade to a newer Tivo unit? You have to pay the $300 "lifetime" subscription fee again? I was looking into getting a Tivo, though not if they are going to charge an extra $300 per unit and pass it off as a "lifetime" subscription. How long is the warranty? It better be at least 5 years or so.
The top two Video makers out there have drivers for Linux. NVidia in fact uses a unified driver which means you get the same features on Linux as on any other OS that NVidia puts a driver out for, including MS Windows.
Comparing playing a game on a 486 to something today just doesn't make sense. Sure hardware has increased, however, you can only do so much in software. Get an Ultra ATA 133 IDE hard drive and run hdparm -Tt/dev/hda when you have DMA transfers enabled. Then turn off DMA and watch the HUGE difference in throughput. The same goes for games and graphics in general today. You have tons of data being pushed to the video card, without some direct way to push that data you will get horrible performance.
Your problems sound like you are using a non-accelerated card. I use an NVidia card with NVidia's excellent Linux drivers and I have to say that the frame rates are great. I get better frame rates for games ported to Linux then under MS Windows XP on the same hardware. I can play back DVD's at full screen on a 19" monitor at a high resolution without any frame drops thanks to MPlayer/Xine. Trying to watch the SAME DVD under MS Windows XP with WinDVD on the same hardware at the same resolution just doesn't work as well. The movie often starts to stutter.
Get a video card like a newer NVidia and install NVidia's Linux drivers for REAL 2D/3D performance. You can also get Linux drivers from ATI for their newer cards. The slightly older cards like 9600, etc. have full 2D/3D acceleration under XFree86 4.3 since ATI was generous enough to release specs.
You can't expect to run on crap hardware or an unaccelerated video card and expect X to just make it all fast. Many people install all the drivers for MS Windows and none for Linux and then complain about the speed of X.
One of my workstations at work has a crappy Intel on board video. It is fully supported and gets average frame rates. You can pick up a Radeon 9600 for dirt cheap now and get good performance. What version of X are you running? You need the latest version XFree86 4.3 for the best card support. If your running some outdated Debian with X 3.x, then that could also be the cause of your problems.
That is just BS. Why would you expect the display to be fast if you are not using 2D or 3D acceleration?
On my box I have an NVidia GeForce3 Ti 500. Under X, I get the same problems as you UNTIL I install the drivers from NVidia. Then it works fine.
This same issue happens under MS Windows XP with the SAME hardware before I install the NVidia drivers as well. Moving a window around with MS Windows XP is dog slow and causes the CPU usage to spike, to the point of making the system almost unusable.
Again, these issues for Linux AND MS Windows XP go away as soon as I _install_the_driver_.
Also, if you have your window manager displaying the contents of the windows while moving them, this can really bring this issue out on an unaccelerated display.
If you are using Metacity as your WM, it by default displays the contents of moving windows (which I hate). You can run gconf-editor and then go under apps and scroll down to metacity. Expand that node and go to the general node. Look for reduced_resources in the list and check it. This will cause metacity to NOT show the contents of moving windows.
Bittorrent is pretty nice. There is a great bittorrent client called Azureus that runs on Linux, MS Windows and Mac. It is written in Java using the same toolkit as Eclipse so it uses the native toolkit for your platform. Azureus is light on resources and fast, it starts up in 3 seconds on my humble laptop. Azureus manages multiple torrents and makes creating your own torrents a snap. Here is a good site to find bittorent links. IMO, Suprnova is by far the best. Oh, if you do use Azureus, be sure to also grab the SafePeer plugin. This will grab a list of RIAA/MPAA/etc IP's to block each time you start Azureus.
There is a cool open source app called GiFT. It has clients for Linux, Mac and MS Windows. It can connect to OpenFT, Gnutella and FastTrack. It can be a replacement for Kazza.
I cannot understand why ANYONE would use Kazaa or some other closed source app to do their p2p activities. Not only is the spyware/adware crap, but you can NEVER trust the code or WHO puts out the code.
Anyone that does p2p should go to PeerGuardian. They put out a list of RIAA/MPAA and other IP addresses and IP ranges to block them from getting to your PC/Mac. The site can spit out the list for many software products like iptables, Shorewall, ZoneAlarm, Kerio Personal firewall, and other. USE THIS LIST.
One other point. If you DO uses any p2p app, make sure that you can disable browsing. That will stop the RIAA/MPAA and thier goons from checking out all your shares and making a nice list to sue you with. The average user that was or is being sued by the RIAA shared about 800 titles. The RIAA got that list by doing a search and browsing your shares. They then save that list of shares with your IP and wham, next thing you know you are bing sued. SO TURN OFF SHARE BROWSING.
Disclaimer:
I do not condone trading copyrighted material for which you do not have the permissions to do so. I personally listen to the same old CD's I have had for years since I cannot stand the crap comming out today. Bittorrent is great to grab missed episodes of the Simpsons and XFiles. Oh, and purchase music from MagnaTune.
Actually, there is the Neuros which is 20GB, supports Ogg and MP3 and has an FM tuner. It can even record. The best thing about it is the price at only $199, it is hard to beat.
It would be OK. You could SSH into the Linux based billboard, export the display to your Linux laptop and have a field day with it. You could put all kinds of funny text up there. The possibilities are endless! Imagine a gimp made image of your principal with some Brittany Spears nude shots. Man, what I would give to be back in High School. I graduated in 1991, back then we had crap for computers.
Seriously, I posted a little while ago about a new Linux based Mulimedia PC from InterVideo and it got rejected, yet a topic about MS and their evil ways gets through?
Intervideo is the company that makes WinDVD, InterVideo Home Theater, and a bunch of others. The story is at New Scientist. Basically it is an "InstantOn" PC with LinDVD (which is developed by InterVideo) that fits on a read-only memory chip. Linux handles TV, DVD, CD, MP3, radio. The twist to this product is that it also has a bootable MS Windows XP OS so you can run any of the MS Windows app that you still want/need.
/. has turned to the dark side and I am running for my tinfoil hat!
With the state of 3D and video card driver support, openGL, etc... they still don't run as well as on Windows systems
Huh? Get an NVidia card and go to NVidia and download their drivers. NVidia uses a unified driver which means you get the same features under Linux as you do under MS Windows. I find that OpenGL games ported to Linux run better under Linux then under MS Windows, though that is just MHO.
WineX allows you to play some of the newer games. Though there are a bunch out there that will be MS Windows only. If you NEED to play PC games, either dual boot or buy a second PC with a cheap KVM and have a ball. I personally use just Linux and a PS2 to handle any gaming needs.
But the big parts taht pro choicers liek to argue ist hat a featus is 'unsustainable'- in that, during pregnancy a featus is a parasite leeching nutrients from the mother, and causing all kinds of medical problems- If removed from the mother by surgical means it will die.
This is the biggest load of crap I have ever heard. If you were hit by a car and went into a coma, should we just let you die? What if you would come out of that coma and make a full recovery in only 2 weeks. However, since when you are in that coma, YOU are a parasite, since you are leaching off tax dollars and the machines keeping you alive. You are unable to sustain yourself, so let us just toss you in a hole in the ground and wait a few days until you die an throw in some dirt. After all, if you cannot sustain yourself, then you are a parasite and deserve to die at another humans will.
Now I'm not sure about you, but if I had a possibly inteligent tapeworm
Are you a teenager? I don't see how any adult with SOME intellegence could form that opinion. What makes us the greatest animal on this planet is our intellect and our humanity. My wife is 7 months pregnant with our second child, my 1st son. He could not live by himself outside of the womb without assistence. Though he is VERY human. We play classical music to him every night with headphones and he instantly wakes up and starts kicking around.
Think really hard about your stupid "Pro-choice" argument. Just because a human cannot sustain itself does not give another human the right to kill it. NO born baby can sustain theirself for MANY years. My two year old daughter could not live on her own. Using your poor argument, it would be OK to kill a 2 or 3 year old because they are a "burden" and they can not sustain themselves.
Amen brother. 66% of Americans are overweight or obese. It is sickening how parents want to sit on their @ss and eat McDonals' or chips and watch TV then know what their kids are doing. Instead of having privacy-stealing technology, how about holding lazy American parents responsible for the actions of their kids? How about having the fat/obese Americans get off there @ss and KNOW WHAT THEIR KIDS ARE DOING?
Yes, I am an American parent of a 2 year old little girl and my wife is 7 months pregnant with my son. I get off my @ss every night and interact with my girl and will continue to do so until I am a crazy old man in diapers!
What if your kid was going to get a free and legal abortion without speaking with you about it, you checked on them, and saw they were at the clinic. I would assume that my child was being pretty responsible
If you found out your daughter was KILLING her unborn child, you would consider that being responsible? Your one sick bastard! Too bad YOUR parents were not "responsible" and had you aborted!
Yes, mod me as a troll. I don't care. I have a wonderful 2 year old baby girl and happen to think that LIFE IS SACRED and not something to be medically "aborted".
P.S. Please don't give me the crap that an unborn baby is NOT life. If we found a cell undergoing mitosis on Mars, would not EVERY scientist on Earth consider that there is life on Mars? Wouldn't the question finally be answert that we are not alone in the Universe? Then how can sick people like you say that here on Earth, it is OK to kill our own kind when they are at there most vulnerable stage in development?
You obviously speak as someone who has not had the blessing of having their own child.
And there are thousands more that go missing for the few stories you posted about. I do think it is great whenever ANY missing person/child is found. I personally do not think it is right to allow this person tracking technology to be allowed. It WILL one day be used against our essential liberties, and then it will be too late. This all sound too Orwellian to me : )
maybe you don't remember being a kid. But not calling and not showing up is really not that big of a deal. happens all the time and the cops wouldn't give a shit.
If an adult (18+) is "missing" and there is no sign of faul play, the police will wait 24 hours. If a minor (17-) is missing, the police will act right away.
The majority of child abductions are done by a parent. Usually from a nasty divorce. Another portion is done by a close friend/family member. While a small percentage is done by a stranger.
The real point you seem to miss is that technology that is presented NOW as a means to keep the kids safe, may later be presented as a means to keep you safe. In five years or so, it because a default, and then in 10 years or so, it becomes mandatory. This is the subtle way of having our liberties stripped away from us. Make us feel "unsafe" and then have "BIG BROTHER" give us a way to feel "safe" again. Then we all thank "BIG BROTHER" for making us "safe" while in the process we give up a little of our essential liberties. Can you say Patriot Act or Patriot Act II?
Those who would sacrifice freedom for security deserve neither.
Hmmm, good stuff, I didn't know that. Come to think of it, I have a DVD of Winne The Pooh, "Special Edition". When it starts, it does not let you get to the Menu until you have watched the ads. I found that if I hit the menu button like mad as soon as I put in the DVD, I am able to by pass the ads for other Disney "specials". It is really sickening. I live about 15 miles from the Walt Disney World resort outside of Orlando FL. I have purchased annual passes for my whole family at about $1,000 a year for the past few years. This is the first year that my family and I are thinking about NOT buying those passes and NOT supporting the crap that Disney is becoming as a company. It is really sad to see the once, most wholesome company, ran into the ground by corporate greed and shareholder satisfaction.
Seriously, what makes you think commercials pay the freight? Here in the USA, there was a time when TV was free and commercials DID pay the freight. However, now most Americans PAY for cable/satellite. Commercials should have gone away when we Americans began to pay for the services. However, many greedy b*stards figured out they could charge for cable/satellite AND still get money for commercials.
Sorry, scumbag corps are not going to take away the Internet and make that just another commercial vehicle. I have no problem sharing it with commercial and non-commercial interests as long as there is balance. However when the commercial interests try to take over, something needs to be done.
This is typical greed that will continue to push the envelope to see how to generate more and more money. This is not capitalism, it is just greed, plain and simple. Most people will stoop to any level to make a buck/Euro/paso.
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The HP servers came with bare drives and a boxed Red Hat AS 2.1. There was no MS Windows CD. Though as I said, these servers were given to us as a thanks for the very expensive SANs. I would assume they came the same way as if we would have purchased them for Linux servers.
It is all yours : )
Where I work we have a corporate support contract on the Dell desktops so we have to go through Dell to get our memory. I wanted to add an extra 512 MB of RDRAM and Dell wanted over $500 for it! You can get it on the net for half that price. The same thing for DDR. Go to Dell's site and customize a PC and add about 256MB of memory to one. They will charge you over $100 when you can get in on the net for $40 or so.
Also, pray that as a home user you never need to call Dell's tech support. Your getting routed over to India and if you don't speak Hindi, your in for a rough time.
I personally think that only HP, IBM and Sun are any of the big boys PC makers that offer real non-MS products. We just got in some multi-million dollar SANS from HP and they threw in a bunch of dual Xeon 3.2 GHz w/HT, 2GB, 136GB U320 Raid 5 Linux servers. HP has Open Source drivers for the Gig cards and even drivers/software for thier HP Lights Out management app for the Linux servers. With Dell you don't get any of that.
It seems odd that MS would hand out CD's of UNIX Services for Windows at a Linux show. Not that long ago MS was saying how the GPL is a "cancer" and yet they include GPL'ed software in their UNIX Services for Windows. I guess the GPL is OK if it helps the bottom line of MS and a "cancer" if it is any competition to them?
Linux is even used in space!!!
If you were talking about the desktop, then sure. Linux is still geared more for someone that is a little bit more technically savvy then your average MS Windows user. However, I think your age range is off as well. I am 31 and have been using Linux for everything at home for many years now, though I am a programmer and more experienced with a computer then Joe User. I think your statement would make a little bit more sense if you had said it about your average non-technical home user.
It is not pointless. Linux is USED for all the multimedia in the device and not MS Windows. The DVD, TV, FM, etc are all handled by LinDVD. This allows the device to boot really fast when you want it for multimedia purposes. If you want/need to do normal desktop stuff, that is when you boot up full MS Windows.
Linux doesn't care if there is no floppy. My laptop is floppy-less and Fedora Core runs just swell. I have never had any Linux puke on my laptop because there is no floppy.
Why do you dread if your Tivo dies? Is the lifetime subscription tied to one Tivo unit? If so, that is crap. What if you want to upgrade to a newer Tivo unit? You have to pay the $300 "lifetime" subscription fee again? I was looking into getting a Tivo, though not if they are going to charge an extra $300 per unit and pass it off as a "lifetime" subscription. How long is the warranty? It better be at least 5 years or so.
Comparing playing a game on a 486 to something today just doesn't make sense. Sure hardware has increased, however, you can only do so much in software. Get an Ultra ATA 133 IDE hard drive and run hdparm -Tt /dev/hda when you have DMA transfers enabled. Then turn off DMA and watch the HUGE difference in throughput. The same goes for games and graphics in general today. You have tons of data being pushed to the video card, without some direct way to push that data you will get horrible performance.
Get a video card like a newer NVidia and install NVidia's Linux drivers for REAL 2D/3D performance. You can also get Linux drivers from ATI for their newer cards. The slightly older cards like 9600, etc. have full 2D/3D acceleration under XFree86 4.3 since ATI was generous enough to release specs.
You can't expect to run on crap hardware or an unaccelerated video card and expect X to just make it all fast. Many people install all the drivers for MS Windows and none for Linux and then complain about the speed of X.
One of my workstations at work has a crappy Intel on board video. It is fully supported and gets average frame rates. You can pick up a Radeon 9600 for dirt cheap now and get good performance. What version of X are you running? You need the latest version XFree86 4.3 for the best card support. If your running some outdated Debian with X 3.x, then that could also be the cause of your problems.
On my box I have an NVidia GeForce3 Ti 500. Under X, I get the same problems as you UNTIL I install the drivers from NVidia. Then it works fine.
This same issue happens under MS Windows XP with the SAME hardware before I install the NVidia drivers as well. Moving a window around with MS Windows XP is dog slow and causes the CPU usage to spike, to the point of making the system almost unusable.
Again, these issues for Linux AND MS Windows XP go away as soon as I _install_the_driver_.
Also, if you have your window manager displaying the contents of the windows while moving them, this can really bring this issue out on an unaccelerated display.
If you are using Metacity as your WM, it by default displays the contents of moving windows (which I hate). You can run gconf-editor and then go under apps and scroll down to metacity. Expand that node and go to the general node. Look for reduced_resources in the list and check it. This will cause metacity to NOT show the contents of moving windows.
There is a cool open source app called GiFT. It has clients for Linux, Mac and MS Windows. It can connect to OpenFT, Gnutella and FastTrack. It can be a replacement for Kazza.
I cannot understand why ANYONE would use Kazaa or some other closed source app to do their p2p activities. Not only is the spyware/adware crap, but you can NEVER trust the code or WHO puts out the code.
Anyone that does p2p should go to PeerGuardian. They put out a list of RIAA/MPAA and other IP addresses and IP ranges to block them from getting to your PC/Mac. The site can spit out the list for many software products like iptables, Shorewall, ZoneAlarm, Kerio Personal firewall, and other. USE THIS LIST.
One other point. If you DO uses any p2p app, make sure that you can disable browsing. That will stop the RIAA/MPAA and thier goons from checking out all your shares and making a nice list to sue you with. The average user that was or is being sued by the RIAA shared about 800 titles. The RIAA got that list by doing a search and browsing your shares. They then save that list of shares with your IP and wham, next thing you know you are bing sued. SO TURN OFF SHARE BROWSING.
Disclaimer:
I do not condone trading copyrighted material for which you do not have the permissions to do so. I personally listen to the same old CD's I have had for years since I cannot stand the crap comming out today. Bittorrent is great to grab missed episodes of the Simpsons and XFiles. Oh, and purchase music from MagnaTune.
Actually, there is the Neuros which is 20GB, supports Ogg and MP3 and has an FM tuner. It can even record. The best thing about it is the price at only $199, it is hard to beat.
It would be OK. You could SSH into the Linux based billboard, export the display to your Linux laptop and have a field day with it. You could put all kinds of funny text up there. The possibilities are endless! Imagine a gimp made image of your principal with some Brittany Spears nude shots. Man, what I would give to be back in High School. I graduated in 1991, back then we had crap for computers.
Intervideo is the company that makes WinDVD, InterVideo Home Theater, and a bunch of others. The story is at New Scientist. Basically it is an "InstantOn" PC with LinDVD (which is developed by InterVideo) that fits on a read-only memory chip. Linux handles TV, DVD, CD, MP3, radio. The twist to this product is that it also has a bootable MS Windows XP OS so you can run any of the MS Windows app that you still want/need.
WineX allows you to play some of the newer games. Though there are a bunch out there that will be MS Windows only. If you NEED to play PC games, either dual boot or buy a second PC with a cheap KVM and have a ball. I personally use just Linux and a PS2 to handle any gaming needs.
Think really hard about your stupid "Pro-choice" argument. Just because a human cannot sustain itself does not give another human the right to kill it. NO born baby can sustain theirself for MANY years. My two year old daughter could not live on her own. Using your poor argument, it would be OK to kill a 2 or 3 year old because they are a "burden" and they can not sustain themselves.
Yes, I am an American parent of a 2 year old little girl and my wife is 7 months pregnant with my son. I get off my @ss every night and interact with my girl and will continue to do so until I am a crazy old man in diapers!
Yes, mod me as a troll. I don't care. I have a wonderful 2 year old baby girl and happen to think that LIFE IS SACRED and not something to be medically "aborted".
P.S. Please don't give me the crap that an unborn baby is NOT life. If we found a cell undergoing mitosis on Mars, would not EVERY scientist on Earth consider that there is life on Mars? Wouldn't the question finally be answert that we are not alone in the Universe? Then how can sick people like you say that here on Earth, it is OK to kill our own kind when they are at there most vulnerable stage in development?
You obviously speak as someone who has not had the blessing of having their own child.
And there are thousands more that go missing for the few stories you posted about. I do think it is great whenever ANY missing person/child is found. I personally do not think it is right to allow this person tracking technology to be allowed. It WILL one day be used against our essential liberties, and then it will be too late. This all sound too Orwellian to me : )
The majority of child abductions are done by a parent. Usually from a nasty divorce. Another portion is done by a close friend/family member. While a small percentage is done by a stranger.
The real point you seem to miss is that technology that is presented NOW as a means to keep the kids safe, may later be presented as a means to keep you safe. In five years or so, it because a default, and then in 10 years or so, it becomes mandatory. This is the subtle way of having our liberties stripped away from us. Make us feel "unsafe" and then have "BIG BROTHER" give us a way to feel "safe" again. Then we all thank "BIG BROTHER" for making us "safe" while in the process we give up a little of our essential liberties. Can you say Patriot Act or Patriot Act II?
Those who would sacrifice freedom for security deserve neither.
Hmmm, good stuff, I didn't know that. Come to think of it, I have a DVD of Winne The Pooh, "Special Edition". When it starts, it does not let you get to the Menu until you have watched the ads. I found that if I hit the menu button like mad as soon as I put in the DVD, I am able to by pass the ads for other Disney "specials". It is really sickening. I live about 15 miles from the Walt Disney World resort outside of Orlando FL. I have purchased annual passes for my whole family at about $1,000 a year for the past few years. This is the first year that my family and I are thinking about NOT buying those passes and NOT supporting the crap that Disney is becoming as a company. It is really sad to see the once, most wholesome company, ran into the ground by corporate greed and shareholder satisfaction.
Sorry, scumbag corps are not going to take away the Internet and make that just another commercial vehicle. I have no problem sharing it with commercial and non-commercial interests as long as there is balance. However when the commercial interests try to take over, something needs to be done.
This is typical greed that will continue to push the envelope to see how to generate more and more money. This is not capitalism, it is just greed, plain and simple. Most people will stoop to any level to make a buck/Euro/paso.