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Bell Labs Demos Cell Phone Location Software
mateub writes "AP via Yahoo reports that Bell Labs will soon announce cell phone software to reveal the owner's location to interested parties. To alleviate privacy concerns they say the software will 'let cell users be as picky as they choose about disclosing their whereabouts' but the article goes on to mention 'the ability for restaurants and other businesses to send a solicitation by text message to a cell phone when its owner wanders within range of those merchants.' Oh, wonderful, cellular popups..."
Sounds like a very good reason for me to remain cell-phone-free.
While some adulterous adults may not want to have their whereabouts known, it is important for kids to be tracked.
Child abduction is a major problem that affects thousands of families every year. This kind of cell phone tracking would go far to help find missing kids before they end up dead and in a ditch.
I have been pwned because my
How long until we walk into stores that have electronic greetings personalized with our names?
Where will it end? It just gets uglier. Location spam, how fun!
I'm not a big fan of this, however it could be nice for people if it is like GPS. And I could see people at local bars using the features to locate other 'singles.' Lots of possibilities.
It would be interesting if there were some software switch that could be triggered by the provider if they were forced to do so by eg FBI or some other form of law enforcment. If you have committed a crime flick of a swtich your position is lit up like a christmas tree. I would prefer telling people where I am rather than having the phone tell them my exact location. Some of the newer technology is interesting and good, But some will bring in a new era of Big Brother. Just my thought..
Only in an emergency need you tell the outsiders where you are. You don't even want to always tell trusted people where you are. That's like being lojacked. Given the ability, how can you say to your wife, "Honey, I don't want you to see my location every minute of every day?"
Unless she's a good, understanding privacy advocate.
For an example of a nice location aware app that doesn't have to tell the network where you are, check out this blog entry about The Big Yellow Button
Actually I can see the point in these (don't kill me)..
Location sensitive advertising actually makes a sort of sense.. Like search sensitive advertising with google..
Just a shame the system will be abused..
fortune -o
Another thought, what about cell phone companies using the phone location service to send bill collectors?
Fight Spammers!
What this really means is telemarketers. Cell phones will now ring during meetings, and this will be a disaster. If this plan gets off the ground, I am going back to a land line. The reason I switched to cell only was avoid the damn telemarkets. THIS SUCKS.
enabling users to specify what location information is shared, when, with whom, how and under what circumstances
They told us that navigation system is for navigation. And then, its tracking the cars, speeding tickets.
They told us cookies is just to make the stateless HTTP protocol have some states. And then, its Double Click and all the tracking.
They told us at the grocery store that the card will be used to get discounts. And then, you start getting those annoying mail related to products you bought.
Hello marketing fellas out there, PLEASE stop. Consumer is getting upset.
Free XBox, PS2
If I get spammed by someone identifiable because I happen to be in their vicinity, I'll be demanding to see the manager and collect my dime refund, just to be a PITA. If enough people do it, that will be end of that kind of spam in the US.
That's the kind of excuse Bush and Ashcroft want to use to pull the woll over your eyes. You really think this would stop any kidnappers?
Step 1: Kidnap Kid
Step 2: Throw any phone they have in the dumpster
Really, why the hell do you think any kidnappers are going to let a kid keep his PHONE on him? You think they're THAT stupid?
Since most of us are not presentable enough to enter restuarants which can afford this type of advertising.
There really isn't much for most to worry about.
In the past, the only way to tell where a person was located while talking on the phone was to detect which cell tower they were connected to. Considering that coverage was several square miles, it wasn't a very good way of tracking someone. However, this method of location has been used by police to solve murders where a person said they were somewhere when they called home after they murdered their spouse.
I think this is flat out bad. I have a cell phone occasionally, I'll admit. I pay a monthly fee, and I think that entitles me to ad-free service. This is a blatent invasion of privacy. "National Security" they will say...that's where it starts. I thought we had a little time before entering a Minority Report style world, which no privacy.
by paying me to reveal my location and accept a certain number of ads and I might consider it. How about $50/month, for, say, Visa, who has a pretty good idea where I am from my charges anyway?
In group behavior: 'because they're evil/morons/sheep/crazy' is not 'insightful' it's 'oversimplified'
Sounds like you haven't seen Minority Report.
Now you too can be greated with a personalised message telling you exactly what you want to buy when you walk into a shop. You don't even have to choose!
It would make sense for the military to require these in addition to "dog tags".
From the article.
"However, given the real-time requirements of transmitting information over a telephone network, it can be difficult to program a wide-range of options for individuals to personalize preferences such as when, where and with whom to share location information. One solution is to hard-code a network database with an "on-off" switch that activates or deactivates a service, for instance, during a window of time with set hours such as peak and off-peak."
So, dial 9-1-1 and your phone should broadcast its location.
Otherwise, just make it an option for the numbers you have stored on your phone and a simple check box for the rest (I want to receive tons of phone spam Y/N).
#1. If I dial 9-1-1, my location is broadcast.
#2. If I turn off the broadcast function, my location is not broadcast (unless #1).
#3. For every phone number I have stored, I have the option to broadcast (or not) my location to that number, provided I have broadcast turned on (#2).
#4. For everyone else, I can choose to receive massive amounts of phone spam (unless #2). Why anyone would choose this option is beyond me.
Any problems with that? It seems simple to me. And it should be easily implemented in software. Of course, it will NOT provide the captive audience for phone spam that seems to be the focus of that article. But so what?
The day I have to take my phone out of pocket to discover that i've been "invited" into a nearby business establishment will be the day I chuck said phone thru the front window of said business establishment. Really, how often do you get the chance to kill two birds with one phone?
Have not read the article, but we had an LBS (location Based Service) scavenger hunt when we launched the service at work. We had to find the closet resturant, directions, etc. Was quite fun. The deal was to get everyone thinking about all the uses, and not just think of it as "Spying on someone"
:)
The phone beeps the person if you look them up, they know you did a lookup on thier location. And you can turn it off. The privacy is still there.
I read the other day, Disney is using LBS to move people quickly through the park, offering discounts, telling them which rides have the short lines, etc. Kinda like on-star on steriods. Lots of companies use LBS on trucks, nice to see it used for normal consumers.
So, really, LBS is pretty damn nice, it can be abused, but if your provider is a schmuck and does that crap, move. Number portability
Anyone else notice lots of the posts are about cellphones, telcos, and releated technology. I tell you Wireless Telco's are going to be the large ISP's of the future...
For for just $4.99 per month you can keep these popups from showing up on my cellphone.
They make money one way or another.
TruePunk | Games
There have been times when I've been wondering where the nearest {insert favorite exotic food} restaurant is.
- Grab Mobile
- set "restaurants only"=true
- turn on location announcing thingy
- wait 5
- turn off location announcing thingy
- read ads from local restaurants
Wire them up with an electronic compass and it should even be able to give you (updated in realtime, even) directions from where you are.Visit CryptoGnome in his home.
This is exactly why open source is important. We need to be able to program our own phones to prevent these sorts of things from being a bother.
Well, childeren's groups, and some parents, are
in favor of the idea, as it will undoubtedly
improve children's safety. It also has many, rather
mundane applications, and there are already
subcription services offering this.
However, privacy advocates rightly point out that
there is much potential for abuse. However, the
ability of the operator to locate users is built
in to the network. All this story about, is making
that info availiable to end users.
However, as an aside, your question implies
a false dichotomy - no thing is entirely good,
or entirely whack. Every thing is part good,
part whack, young padwun learner.
...is even when you are in "privacy mode" that servers will still sense your location and save up popups and offers for when you DO have that one time you need to use it. Believe me, they'll figure out a way to circumvent any privacy methods.
This actually sounds like a good idea to me (queue up the privacy advocates).
I've seen several posts that equate this to popup ads and the ilk. I'd rather look at it like Google's AdWords. Depending on their usage (say restaurant A says "Mention code 12345" to get a 15% discount on your meal), these could be rather useful. AdWords is effective because the advertisement is extremely targeted; a sniper-rifle approach, if you will, compared to the pop-up or SPAM shotgun approach to marketing.
I can see how driving past Restarant A's location with the location software on might be annoying, but, at the same time, if I'm specifically looking for something to eat, then, to me, it's extremely useful.
You can expand the above statement to other retailing venues, though I would see a need for some sort of filtering or category system for, say, walking through a densely packed mall. Of course, you're practially being hit over the head with adverts and whatnot anyway...
It could be a good thing, it could be a bad thing -- the technology itself is neutral, of course (I've forgotten the source of this paraphrase... anyone remember?).
Michael C. Hollinger
No? Good.
I'm laughing at clouds.
In particular, I don't want the restaurants (or other stores) to even know I'm nearby until I ask the phone to poll for that information.
businesses to send a solicitation by text message to a cell phone when its owner wanders within range of those merchants.' Oh, wonderful, cellular popups..."
;)
Could be interesting when you pass that 'massage parlour' you never knew was there
Seems like that'd be a quick way to lose buisness...of course, people keep using Yahoo!'s services so maybe they're willing to take the abuse.
But really, if I told my cellular provider I didn't want people to be able to track me and they ignored that preference, I'd have to stop using my phone and cancel the service. If they wanted to hit me with a penalty for early cancellation I'd have to ask a lawyer to send them a friendly letter.
I thought it was interesting that my new Sprint Treo 600 already has an option to enable location privacy.
Phoenix
... the *worst* thing for SPAM, and the *best* thing for e-mail.
/off to find the perlkit for my nokia ...
sure, we can get spammed a lot now. but then again, since its a delivery mechanism, we can also get an e-mail dump as we drive by too.
hey. now there's a nifty idea. what if a mailqueue scheme was implemented using this idea, where peoples cell phones could be used to give and receive msg's at different physical locations - i.e. train station newsstand, and coffee shop.
ermm, never mind slashdot.
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
All the integrators in my company have this on our Nextels. When we run the Telenav Java app in the background, the phone reports our location every so often. Our traffic manager back at the office can call up a web page with a map showing all of our locations on it and dispatch the closest integrator if a client calls in with an emergency.
Until January it only did GPS and was a major battery drain. Now it's been updated, and if it can't see the GPS sats it just triangulates its position from the cell towers.
It also does driving directions, but at highway speeds it's not great. It usually says "turn right!" just after you passed the intersection where you were supposed to turn.
Why not have a special childs phone and a special child location service that parents pay for. Parents are happy because they can locate their children, the service and phone providers are happy because they can charge extra money and I am happy because I am not forced to participate.
Many have pointed out how ineffective lojacking kids would be if the kidnappers (who 99% of the time are relatives, the press just makes a big deal when there is a stranger kidnapping) are aware of the technology.
It can be worse, it can be used to mislead. Of course they can just turn the phone off (you going to trigger an alert on every dead battery or out of range cell phone?) but they can also plant it at the home or the home of some red herring.
But here's the real question. Kids have rights. At what age will parents finally let their kids be free of the surveillance anklet we're calling a cell phone?
I can tell you it will be later than it should be for almost all parents, that is their nature, and it's understandable.
But I think if we are going to have readily available child-lojack, there may need to be a law to protect the children from their parents, and forbid doing it after the age of 12. The kids can still have a phone, can still call 911 and transmit their location, but no parent query.
Otherwise we destroy the freedom of all kids to catch one stupid criminal out of 100,000 who doesn't know to turn off the phone. All the other times it will be used to say, "I told you not to associate with that Jimmy kid."
its illegal to call a telemarketer to call a cell phone, so couldnt it be argued that this is illegal too?
30% Troll, 50% Underrated, 10% Interesting
Score:5, Troll
Most likely, the ads will be initially used to provide ultra-cheap service ($5 - $10 / month). Eventually, they'll become "standard" and you'll have to pay extra to not be annoyed.
Help save the critically endangered Blue Iguana
If a mobile phone user elects to receive 'pop-ups', they could be compensated with credit to their phone bill or even receive a store discount by showing the SMS they received. It's a good tool for stores to entice customers into the shop. The system would also know if it has sent out an SMS to a particular number and would not send again until some predefined preiod.
"...as it will undoubtedly
improve children's safety."
how so? Are you saying the kidnapper won't through the cell phone out the window?
How about this, the kidnapper tosses the childs phone into a different vehical going in another direction?
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Just as cookies have useful applications, so will location-based messaging. Location-based traffic reports immediately come to mind.
:-)
I'd love to get an SMS when I-684/I-95 are jammed, and I'd love it even more if the service was free, paid for by an ad for the local Dunkin Donuts.
Beware: I believe all are created equal, and have the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
1: Toss cellphone in ditch.
...but the article goes on to mention 'the ability for restaurants and other businesses to send a solicitation by text message to a cell phone when its owner wanders within range of those merchants...
:(
So does this mean cheaper cellular rates? No? Oh, I didn't think so anyway.
It sucks that stuff like this could be so cool but that we can't trust that the providers won't take advantage of the huge marketing potential. Add to that the fact that most Americans think that the Constitution applies only to them personally and observance of any particular article is completely optional as long as it fits within their narrow mindset and its easy to see the potential for government abuse of the wealth of information that could be available.
That said, if I could be guaranteed that the locator service information was only good for the time of the query and wasn't logged in any way and that I could, from my phone, turn the feature on and off at will, I think I would try it.
Billboards, flyers, guys dressed in a chicken suit to advertise the opening of a KFC - it's all unwanted and all in your face everyday. I don't see how cell phone ads are any different . . . except for the fact that you pay for the cell phone to work so that the advertisers HAVE a new way to bombard you. The least that could be done is for the carrier to offer phone bill discounts to people who allow themselves to be ad targets (and restaurant coupons too).
Seems the easiest thing to do would be to turn the phone off - which I do anyway. It is an option we don't have with other forms of advertisements.
They will probably remove the off button though.
I hope they plan on giving me a nickel if i walk in and show them the pop-up. I sure as hell don't want to get charged for something like this.
Don't waste time... procrastinate now!
They pulled the chip thingo offa him and he was practically invicible to the baddies...
And I bet the system will be "opt out" -- just like Yahoo Mail spam!
sure, i think a variation of this based on GPS would actually be useful. in that scenario your device tells *you* where you are and you can pull up directories/services/info/whatever relevant to that area.
the scenario they describe though has *others* know where you are, and advertise at you against your will.
i don't use it much - maybe it's time to throw out the cell phone too...
pr0n - keeping monitor glass spotless since 1981.
No no no. If a multinational technology corporation does it, it's advertising. Only stuff from a company with less than 10,000 employees is spam.
A professor whom I TA for actually is involved in a venture business to do just this, and he bounced the idea off of us (his TA staff) about a year ago.
But it wasn't location based advertising, per se. It was location based coupons, eg, you walk into a Foot Locker, and get a message that will give you 10% off any Reebok for the next 20 minutes. Another use was instead of having to wait in line at the DMV (or taking a number and waiting to be called), go in, register your phone, and recieve a text message when you near the beginning of the queue.
There are some positive sides to this technology, although I do hope that there is some option to turn it off.
Sure, I'll take the add's if I get a free national plan with unlimited minutes. Its the new business model.
Yes, BIG problems with that. Once you are able to transmit like this, you now have the nasty problem of having to say no to some people who think they have a right to the info. Bosses. Spouses. Parents.
Some relationships are good ones where the other party will understand why they don't have a right to the info, but some spouses and definitely some parents and bosses are going to feel bothered if you say no. Some will pretend they are not bothered but they will now start wondering, "Just what is he hiding????"
You actually have to start putting in things like a function to lie about your location, since selectively not broadcasting some times when you normally do so is a giant red flag.
Why push people into lying?
Criminal uses cell phone to call in kidnapping ransom. Police trace phone, find criminal + kid. Summer 2003
Kidnap victim memorizes rapists cellphone. Police check registry, find perp. Jun 2003
Kidnapped woman had cellphone hidden on person. Cops trace it to car, catch perp in parking lot. Nov 2003
And many more...
I can't find the link,but remember an article about location-based commentary and review.
Turn on your phone and download or record customer reviews on the restaurant you are about to enter. Just walking through the door could activate not only coupons and ads, but allow you to grab menus from all restaurants in the area; see wait times; place a reservation; and read reviews left by patrons over the last couple of hours/days.
This has potential for a lot of convenience and power...as well as significant abuse.
Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
Some ways in which this could be hijacked for malicious purposes:
1) Angry spouse getting back at partner (ie, escaping violent environment holed up at an undisclosed location)
2) Law officers having their cell numbers given out, then called, hang up, when called back, their locations revealed. Endanger their families.
3) Same for judges, crummy construction contractors, bad auto repair shop owners... anybody who might make someone else mad for one reason or another.
Need I go on?
What if one of our national leaders is located (while in an undisclosed location) via his cell phone by an extremist who is bent on revenge? What about his family?
Abortion providers (who I'm not happy about in areas of convenient terminations of pregnancy) could also come under fire.
How about hackers who slip into a phone company's system and finds where someone works/frequents and blackmails others, or even just lets it slide that they frequent X rated establishments?
How long before someone is able to latently track cell phones (via some hack/intrusion) of say... the president of the united states while on a trip? Okay, maybe not the president... how about an aide who's always with him? How often are the updates made? Often enough to track with targeting on a weapon?
Where do we draw the line on capabilities to track people?
How about people found speeding because the distance per time exceeds any possible speed limit between those tested points?
How about going after phone company execs?
Yeah, I thought so... they don't want their phones to broadcast at all.
Is there any hope of an open source hardware board that can be used as a phone with an appropriate ID card/pre-paid card purchased to get on networks without relying on someone else's tracking?
The FCC has already declared unsolicited ads in SMS messages to violate the provision of 47 USC 227 which prohibits unsolicited messages to cellphones, pagers, and any other service where the recepient incurs a charge.
... press send and make my day. I can use the $$$.
The FCC explicitly declared (see paragraph 165) using up a "bucket" of monthly minute/message allotments to be a message where you incured a charge.
You get to collect a mandatory $500 in your local small claims court for each message.
Go ahead punk advertiser
#4. For everyone else, I can choose to receive massive amounts of phone spam (unless #2). Why anyone would choose this option is beyond me.
It will be opt-out. And routinely, your phone service will reset your preferences. "We're giving you new features, blah de blah".
And it should be easily implemented in software.
Not a chance. Buried 4 menus deep (and off the main screen), with probably very misleading verbiage.
"Do you want to turn on the negative notification refusal option? Y/N."
It is in their (not our) best interests for you to have it on.
A Cell Phone advertisement may increase the amount of deadly car wrecks, especially in larger cities.
Cell phone users are already dangerous enough on the road when they are speaking to their step mother's sisters's daughter's best friend about what colour they should get their nail polish.
Example:
A person is in their car driving happily along, paying attention to the road and making a slight effort at being a safe and defensive driver. They drive right past their favourite McDonalds restaurant and their cell phone begins to beep off the hook. They rush through their stuff (females through their purse, even scarier!) and take their eyes off the road. Someone in front of them slams on their brake and their nice ride ends in a catastrophic crash over an ad about a $.99 value meal.
There are some good points to it... but I honestly hope that I have the option to disable the GPS or whatever system they use in the phones they give us. The benefits do not outweigh the risks.
Don't forget that Japansese (or was it Korean?) gadget that beeped when two people with similar interests were in close proximity.
Go to a busness meeting, sit next to the very attractive VP, have your phone set just the right way... they both go off... you've got yourself a promotion.
.. using handset independent cell method in Australia using national Carrier.
Our applications gave total control to user with global on/off and selective sharing of generated PIN with friends on list.
Even now in 2004 network based positioning systems not precise enough to beep door-by-door for that available single right next to you so can stop worrying about that.
Also here in Australia there must be a different assumption as to marketing and ads fears expressed - everyone from telco to providers to businesses here realise big time spamming will kill such services cold.
We did 80 categories of content too and they were really popular to pull up relevant locations at any time, near you or somewhere else.
Our latest generation services allows for free text searches as well so users are again in total control in roaming through our content with or without positioning.
Alex.
www.findmap.com.au
Here in Brazil, one of the biggest cell phone carriers has this technology ready for, at least, 1 year. I saw it working. A friend of mine work there, he showed me that they can plot your location, anytime, on a map.
:)
He told me that they were thinking on how to sell this stuff. Until now, nothing happened.
All I want to say is: If this is ready (for one year already) here in Brazil, U.S. and Europe must have this working for ages already.
Tinfoil hat anyone?
And it ain't "us".
Repeat after me.
"We are not the consumers. We are the product. Advertisers are the consumers."
Can we start putting phone booths back now?
"Things are more moderner than before- bigger, and yet smaller- it's computers-- San Dimas High School football RULES!"
It looks like a poem.
All this story about, is making that info availiable to end users.
The real question is, who is the end user.
Hint: It ain't you.
One of the original reasons I became completely wireless in the first place was to get rid of telemarketers entirely. Although I do believe there are some fairly good used for this technology, there are far too many ways to abuse it. Anybody can say, this is good for parents whos children have cell phones, but that is ridiculous. Billy is supposed to be at Jimmy's house but instead he is at the mall. (Billy is going to leave he cell at Jimmy's) I think there should be no problem with setting up a massive set of rules per user. Cell phones now are becoming more like small computers anyhow, we should be able to set up privacy rules about who, where, when, and how the messages are received. I can do this with my email, including spam, why not with a cell phone? I can use a proxy server with my regular internet connection, can I do this with a cell phone to thwart potential spam? Obviously there is much more work, time, and consideration that has to be done in order for this to even remotely be good for the majority of users, if Ms Brittney Spears wanna be high school girls loves the fact that gap can send her a discount before she walks in the door great, but leave me the hell alone!
-- johntracy.com, because everybody else is wrong.
Yep, the Nokia 6969.
And Bush is going to smoke all your terrorist-loving Democrat asses in November.
The day I have to take my phone out of pocket to discover that i've been "invited" into a nearby business establishment will be the day I chuck said phone thru the front window of said business establishment.
The moment you get one of these messages, the right thing to do is call them back and say you *thought* about going there, but realized you didn't want to support any business who uses this practice.
If 10 people did that in the first week of such a campaign, I'm sure that it would stop pronto.
Tweet, tweet.
...but then again, this could be really useful if my cell phone ever gets lost or stolen. I just don't like the idea of my daily wanderings being sold to other companies. I'm sure they'll promise not to do it, but later on will start giving the data up.
Any problems with that?
Yes. I have a big problem with it. My problem is this, I want to torture anyone who uses the word "automagically". I want to rip your guts out and force-feed them to you, then use the last few feet of intestine to strangle you. I'm afraid this is a bit understated, but it's the best I can do right now. Maybe we could go to the zoo together so we could watch the lions eat your innards as you die slowly and painfully, but nowhere near slowly or painfully enough. People who say automagically are even more loathesome than those who misuse "reticent", hard as that may be to comprehend.
The word is automatic. Automagic is cute like little bunnies. Please quit using that word or commit suicide.
cock smoke?
I always have my mobile phone with me, but I only turn it on for about an hour each day at the most, to check for messages. If I need to make a call, I've got it, and it's got all the phone numbers I should be remembering.
Of course, my phone is a PDA, so it does a lot more than that, too. That just makes it easier to remember to take it with me.
Politas
All your privacy are belong to us.
I use my (currently) private work cell for on-call purposes and those "your DB just vomited it's so-called redundant array AGAIN" text messages.
I don't want to have elevated blood pressure by unsolicited-- how did they put it-- "location based services" if I happen to walk/drive past a business/whatever with this software. Oh, that's thinking that I received a legitimate, useful message, that is, as I now only receive messages in the event of actual issues.
Nor do I want to be sitting in a movie with my cell on "silent" and have somebody walking up the aisles loudly whispering "John Doe from Innotech! Hello, John, where are you?" as somebody from work tracks me down with some Coordinate-O-Matic software.
if you want "No More Hiroshimas" then I say "You First. No More Pearl Harbors."
That could be a useful subscription service.
[spelling nazi]
You had me, right up until you spelt circumvented as cercomvented... then i was lost in a fog of laughter...
[/spelling nazi]
5468652047616D65
Actually while I know this isn't a good thing, it might be somewhat enjoyable. It would mean we were all being given an opportunity to confront people who seem to think this is a good idea to use.
If someone sent you a popup on your cell, you could at least go bitch that person out. And tell them, and any customers present why you will never do business there (again?). Finally a good way for us to start educating the masses. Unfortunately, a bad thing needs to happen before we can do that.
Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!
I reccently finished an ethics class at a state univeristy, fortunately i got out of the university and am planning schooling elsewhere, however something I learned while in that class may be an issue here. Most people can pool together and attest to the fact that they don't want a "Big Brother" type environment. However it takes a bit of thinking to realise the truths behind the scare tactics. Technology jumps in leaps and bounds, there are even tiers within technology (when Ma Bell buys a dell and Jimmy Neutron builds his own super computer). But the main fact that i always used in my ethics class debates and always won me the argument, is that the more you care, and the more intelligent you are no ammount of advertising or big brother (within the legal limits) can harm or disturb you.
Personal encryption is so powerful now that if i wanted to i could send a message that our government would NEVER be able to read over e-mail. This not only proves it is the user that defines the technology, but it lends to the fact that if your not doing something wrong you have NOTHING to hide.
You will be surprised how hard it is to live without one, not because I need one, a lot of people say 'it is necesary now a days', but because a lot of people are putting preasure on me to get one. It might be boss, relatives, friends, but everyone seems to assume that everyone else has to be in touch all the time just because they are.
Some people say that it is just for emergencies, but most people can't come up with any emergency that their cellphone has been that essential. I mean, I know they can save lives, but I see people walking around with talking on their cellphone everywhere, I doubt that there are that many emergencies.
I'm no trying to be a cellphone Troll... well, maybe a bit, but, is it just me that see big sociological changes revolving around the cellphone socio-technology? People with cellphone seem to get away with behaviour that would be considered rude under any other context. And yes, I know, everyone says that they don't answer their cellphone unless its important. But, at least once a day a conversation I'm having seems to be interrupted by someone's cellphone, and I doubt it is always that important. Why is it suddenly so important to be communicated ALL the time? Why is it more important, in many cases and to many people, than presential interaction? Am I just a freak of person-to-person, reallife interaction?
Are there any other /.ers that feel this way, or am I alone in a hellphone work?
"There is no teacher but the enemy."-Mazer Rackham
Here is my take:
I don't have a home phone; I only keep the cell phone. Why? Because I can't see the point of having a land line that is only going to subject me to a constant torrent of tele-marketing. With the cell-phone if someone needs or wants to reach me, they can no matter where I happen to be. My typical response is to not reply, and then later when accused of ignoring whoever it was that was trying to reach me i can blame it on poor cell service. Land lines almost never go down and people will only buy the whole "my machine has been dodgy lately" shtick so many times. So see the Cell phone helps me keep the world at arms length through the illusion of fallibility.
This militant "I don't have a cell phone" thing perplexes me. Banal conversation is the crux of modern civilization! I won't even bother bringing up the irony of complaining about superfluous communication by posting on a message board.
On Wall Street they say "buy low, sell high" On the pad we say, "buy high, sell high" Isn't that somehow better?
"#1. If I dial 9-1-1, my location is broadcast.
#2. If I turn off the broadcast function, my location is not broadcast (unless #1)."
Motorola, at least, is way ahead of you. I got a T730 phone just recently that can broadcast GPS coordinates. In fact, I had hard evidence not long ago, while I was making a 911 call, that it did just that when the dispatcher said "And you're currently on (street name)?" (I was).
However, the nice thing about the 730 is that you have explicit control over the locator feature. You can set it to broadcast your location only during 911 calls, during all calls, or never.
I have it set to 'Send on 911 only.' It makes it a lot easier on both me and the dispatcher(s).
Bruce Lane, KC7GR,
Blue Feather Technologies
Somebody email me when they impliment a feature that allows you to talk to someone.
Calling atheism and agnosticism a religion is like calling bald a hair color.
Be sure to leave your cellphone at your alibi-spot before comitting your crime. :P
This kind of system has been in use for a few years now. What these guys have done is not new technology, but rather its repackaging into something that can be exposed for usage by third party service providers (restaurants, dating services, and so on).
But even this kind of package has been in use in Israel for the last 3 years. First, for commercials in malls and restaurants/shops, as a service called INeerU, and lately in a service called "Friends" that lets you know when you get close to a buddy of yours (all sides must consent).
It seems like the US is far behind with cellular solutions, but I personally think this is better, in the sense that the entire world serves as "beta" grounds, after which the American cellcos can adopt only the models and solutions that survived and succeeded.
Skaag
All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain... time... to... die...
I agree that Dean's a clueless tit, but wtf does this have to do will cell phones?
It has been possible to triangulate your location from use of your cell phone. Just ask numerous individuals who have been busted for cell phone fraud.
The company should have that right, NOT the phone compnay. What kind of company wants to have third partees tracking their employees? Do you think someone like a diamond merchant could tollerate such a thing? The same rules, of course apply to individually owned phones. If you don't control it, you don't really own it, do you?
This is just one more reason that all software on all devices should be free software. As long as people will accept being screwed, there's a long line of assholes waiting thier turn to do it to them. So XP is an example how easy it is to enslave the ignorant. Monopoly ownership of cell phone fanchises necessitate short term measures, like tin foil pouches, to enjoy the benefits of cell phones until they too are liberated.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
Why was this moderated down?
If you question moderation, thats an instant troll?
Wow, blatant censorship.
To prove it, this post will be moderated down too.
That's almost a high-quality fp. However, it lacks fp45. Please release a patch to fix this error.
Regular popups wouldn't work either if the advertiser was close enough to visit to "register disapproval".
bits and peace
Nicholas Daley
-- of the original poster's point:
It seems fairly clear from the article that the technology to find us is already around, and BL is unrolling software that will allow us to have a measure of control over who sees us.
I'm not any happier than the next guy about being found through my cell, and I'm glad that Bell Labs is at least pretending to care about my wishes.
Human being (n.): A genetically human, genetically distinct, functioning organism.
(At least I didn't say 3...profit)
And watch the class-action law suit if this software starts delievering content to your phone that you don't want. A cell phone is to provide the user with convience, and that is what you pay for. But if I got an advertisment from a company on my cell phone you had better believe that I would not use that company. It seems that techology is becoming a tool for commercial advertisment to annoy the public. When I fork out my $50 a month for my cell phone, I know that I am paying for my services. I sure as hell don't want to be paying for commercials on my phone to tell me what is the latest and greatest. Frankly if this technology is used to deliever cellular advertisments, I hope that some strip club uses it so that the public outcry will shut it down. And you had better believe if this technology is adopted and used by my cellular providor I will eat the cancellation fee and drop the service. I guess the people inventing this technology do not own cellular devices at all -- because they would know that having a cell phone can be a pain, and the idea of carrrying a commercial with you would make the service undesireable.
The views expressed are mine own and do not express the views of my employer.
So the batteries run out, the kid stays at a friends, and forgets to call home, and suddenly there's a nationwide Amber alert out?
First they put them in the cars, the cars we drive everywhere. Then they put them in the phones, the phones we never leave behind. Next they will put them in the kids, the ones too young to have any rights of their own.
The current positioning technologies are GSM network-based positioning and GPS positioning. GSM positioning uses cell IDs that use the GSM networks and GPS positioning, satellite positioning. GPS-based positioning can position the target up to an accuracy of metres and is based on measuring the distance between the receiver and the satellite. Satellites send radio signals to the receiver and the receiver calculates how long it took the signal to reach it. GPS positioning does not usually work indoors.
You can read more at: Soneras website
Life is a sexually transmitted fatal disease.
...for those of you who think tracking kids is important:
Use this technology to send out "Amber Alerts" to cell phones. Make it voluntary. Not only can they send the text info on the abduction, they could also send a picture to phones with color screens.
As statements above say that a kidnapper would just throw away the cell phone. This would be one more tool to use when looking for a lost person. Maybe the service would even be free seeing how it is an emergency service.
-Nick
"A plan fiendishly clever in its intricacies"- Homer Simpson
You think they're THAT stupid?
Typicly a crimminal is convenced he isn't doing anything wrong.
A person who actually believes kidnapping a kid is ok is eather demented or compleatly devoid of intelegence.
Also most kidnappers (and cell phone theafs) will not know the phone can be tracked so it won't even cross the kinappers mind to toss a kids cell phone.
That said a kidnapper would probably toss a cell phone becouse they don't like cell phones or some other stupid reason.
What crosses my mind is how this could be used by 911 or to locate a stolen cell phone.
I don't actually exist.
I don't get it. My phone already has this ability.
I got it for free from Verizon Wireless when I signed up for another 2 year contract. Is this special?
I have no problem with your religion until you decide it's reason to deprive others of the truth.
For the altruistic, a tool for finding kidnapped kids. For the paranoid, one more way the man keeps us down. For the clueless, such as me, an invaluable tool:
ring, ring
Hello, is this the FBI?
Yes....
Um,....where am I?
grammar-lesson free since 1999. (rescinded - 2005)
First time I get ADS on my cell phone I'm going to go into that business and pound the shit out of someone. Watch and see. And I won't be the only one either. These fucking parasites are setting themselves up for some serious ass whippings..
In northern Sweden, some year ago, you could subscribe to a service where you'd get commercials in SMS messages as you moved around. It was somewhat popular. But then, it was an opt-in service.
Of course, those pop-ups are a bit different, as it's not opt-in. I am sure it won't be text only; modern cell-phones can handle graphics... Your operator will sell you the service 'Be able to filter what popups are allowed', and you will buy it, because life without will be annoying. As everyone knows, it's on the services the operators make their money.
Uhh to be honest, most criminals are too dumb for all this thinking.
Got the ill communication.
Yes, let this expensive restaurant spam me as I walk by! Of course, I'll offer them to settle first ...that window table would be OK.
--
The good thing about this form of advertising is that I can walk right into the shop that just spammed my cell phone and do whatever I deem appropriate. I don't think it will last long.
Now we just wait for people to hack their phones to mirror someone else's phone. Did anyone see The Thomas Crown Affair where the guys in the museum are all dressed alike? Can you see this happening with phones? Parents and phone companies are both going to go nuts just like the police did.
now if you've had one too many at the bar you can just call yourself and tell your drunk butt how to get home from around the corner
Swisscom, Switzerland's former telco monopolist, had a service like this several years ago. The idea was for companies to track employees, cars and whatnot while private people would be able to simply find their friends. It all worked via a website, there was no standalone software.
The technology was quite accurate enough at the time, but the service was never successful due to privacy concerns and was removed.
Since the technology already worked, Swisscom has instead been offering Swisscom friendZone since 2001. With friendZone, you can see who else is near you (in the same cell? I have no idea how it works). I believe it's anonymized at first, so you can talk to people as if on IRC or in some other reasonably anonymous meeting place. Once you add people to your friends list, you can also use the service to locate them geographically. The idea is to generate a lot of revenue for the telco through SMS chatting. Yes, some people here are actually happy to pay EUR 0.10 for every "ok" and "lol" they send.
So the technology, at least in this implementation, is old. As so often in the mobile market, Europe lags behind Japan and the USA lag behind Europe.
already offering such services; the service keeps updating your location on the cellphone; for eg if you're on xyz street - it says ure on xyz street on the default screen; it may sound stupid but sometimes it is of great use. Also, some companies have already been testing sms bombing.. its not restricted to hotels or singles, but also to ATM machines, stores etc. ;)
I fortunately do not have a cell; one way to make this work is - pay the user everytime u bomb him.. every sms u send him earns him 5 mins of free talktime
|/________
|\A|ALYS|
This opens up the market for special ROMs for phones, just like you hack XBoxs and PS2s, you will be able to get your phone modded in the future to resist this kind of crap.
My cell phone already has that... Motorola 120e. Let's see... Menu... Settings... Location... and I'm given a choice between "Location On" and "911 Only".. the manual clearly describes that this feature will either broadcast my physical location to the network so that I can be informed about specials at restaurants I'm passing, or just so that 911 Emergency Response will know where I am without having to ask.
Matthew G P Coe
http://mgpcoe.blogspot.com/
Is anyone else concerned about the possible long term effects of living in an environment in which you can always be contacted, always be located, and always contact others?
I'm only in my mid 20's, but when I was young I lived in the country and for whole days would be out of contact with 'civilisation.' I could have fallen down a well and noone would have found me for ages. Somehow I survived. By the time I was 11 or 12 I would camp out with friends, again with no ability to phone home if anything happened and no ability for my parents to check where I was. By the age of 16 I was living in a large city and starting to learn about wine, women and song - still without a mobile phone or TrackCo Tracking Brain Implant. It was only a few years ago that I started using a phone, and although it's useful I make sure to turn it off frequently and leave it at home occaisionally. I also regularly let it ring out so that people don't assume I will be contactable at all times.
Now my question is this: what about people who live their entire lives, from their earliest years, with a phone? Always in contact, always trackable. Surely this will have a serious psychological effect - severing of the umbilical cord of cellular connectivity already leads to panic in some people I know. If we go out camping and there's no reception, they get upset and on more than one occaision have climbed large hills in vain attempts to get back on the network. Other individuals have phoned me at random times sounding panicking and asking - why was your phone off? Are you ok??!
Basically what I am concerned about is that we will become a species addicted to the security of our cell phone blanket, and thereby lose a bit of our independence. I think we should change the culture to make it less centred around constant connectivity and more focused on convenience - convenience for the OWNER of the phone, not others who might wish to contact them. People should make a point of travelling occaisionally without their phones, turning them off during meals, movies, or even just for a few hours when they want to relax. The phone should be a tool, not a social floatation device to reassure us that if anything bad happens help is just a button-press away. Living with a panic alarm is just going to make you worry more about when you might need to use it.
Read Pynchon.
Finland is considering wether this should be legal or not. The BBC has some info on it. Also sms messages are already used as a method of spam. Spam will not wait untill you are near a certain object. It will send it if it has your number. e.g. when I move from one country to another in Europe, I get a message from the other operator that I am using that. Because I can not turn these messages off, I call it spam.
The messages are redundant, because one look at my cellphone indicate what operator I am using.
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
It's not software to allow companies (or anyone else) to track that Bell Labs is developing. They've realized that that software is inevitable, and that the greater market is for software that lets the cell phone users fuzz that tracking. Jeez...all those posts responding to the misrepresentation of the original post, rather than the actual facts...
For your security, this post has been encrypted with ROT-13, twice.
A serious question here - don't any of you tedious little shits get bored of complaining? The article blatantly states the ability to control who can see what and when was a basic guideline in the construction of this particular software. Do any of you bother reading the articles in advance, or do you head straight to the bitching and moaning?
Of course this kind of service always has the potential for misuse, but at least here there has not been any problems so far.
The location-based advertising is same thing, at least in Europe even potential technologies that allow this are very strictly regulated. It's not a problem. Seems that unlike on Email, cellular spam is not becoming a problem here - not at least in the near future.. it's very strongly opt-in and the law is forced efficiently. I'm not absolutely certain if the US players follow the cellular marketing guidelines we have here in Europe, but I suppose they do because otherwise your cell would have had been spammed quite heavily already.
Location-based cell advertising ain't that new thing either - the technology has been around for a good while.. it's just that deploying mass tracking isn't still cost-effective enough for marketing.
-el
GSM phone location can also be used to track other people than kids too. Friends, parents even pets. In Finland you have to give your permission if you want your cell phone to be located and who may use that information. Only exception are the parents "spying" on their kids.
Old people (with perhaps with dementia)can be located if they leave their homes. Injured hikers can be tracked from the woods. Some operators and phone makers provide phones for hunting dogs and other pets. If you can not find your dog, you can phone to it, the phone answers automatically and sends its location info to you.
Also games may utilize location info. Like It's Alive's BotFighters. (warning, site did not work very well with Mozilla Firebird, designed for IE.) See also their press release. Ads are not the only possible way to utilize the location info. There are many other possible services too.
--
EMT started offering positioning service about a year ago. Cellphone user is able to locate nearest ATM/restaurant/Gas station/etc.. Also it is possible to authorize your friends to locate you on the map. Positioning in net.emt
There have been some attempts to create text message based services, but apart from little kids downloading ringtones they haven't been very popular. However now the cell phone can do something at least I am very bad at doing: describing my location accurately. For example meeting someone in a new city, it would be very useful to be able to give your location to that person rather than try to explain. Personally I get this rather uncomfortable feeling when the other person asks, when I am in a completely unknown place "hey where are you now?".
"umm I can see a big flower shop near me and umm..." Describing your location by landmarks is easy if you happen to stand next to the big ben or eiffel tower, but mostly there is nothing much to describe and it's unlikely that street names would help much either, unless you're talking to a taxi driver. I welcome wholeheartedly the opportunity to simply beam my location to the other person than try to explain. Yes, it will cost. But how much does it cost when you spend a long time trying to explain your location?
Location-based services will be one of those things that will seem like an obvious feature of mobile phones in the future. Not only that, but there might come other location based services which are useful. I don't think we will get personalized advertisements from shops, unless receiving advertisements would have some benefit for the consumer as well, possibly as reduced phone bill.
No, rather I would predict a service that would allow me to actively seek information than be fed information. Example? Alright, you are at a bar and it's closing but you still feel like continuing your round. So you take out your trusty mobile and check the list of currently open bars sorted by their distance to you. Or perhaps you aren't feeling so good, so you want to know if there are any pharmacies near you.
Yes, it will require that a list of companies and their opening hours is available. This is not a problem. Such lists exist even now on the web, it is simply a problem of adapting it for comfortable cell phone use. Oh yeah, if I turn out to be wrong and none of these services ever appear, I guarantee you it will be because of poor implementation rather than there not existing a need for such a service.
Oh, wonderful, cellular popups...
Of course, that will go the way of the dodo soon enough, after enough people throw bricks with love letters attached through the windows of those burning your airtime for fun and profit.
"No problem. I have the capacity to do infinite work so long as you don't mind that my quality approaches zero."-Dilbert
Cool, a form of spam where the spammer is actually within beating-distance.
Just remember to bring a club or a brick whenever you go near a restaurant.
How do you tell the system to not track you while you are not on the phone? I don't think tracking can be turned off short of powering down the phone. It looks like the only option from the article is to not share the location with 3rd parties. It would work like blocking caller ID. The phone company knows you made the call and from where, but just don't pass on the information unless it's 911 or an 800 number. Don't forget the phone checks in with a tower on a regular basis (it's needed to ring your phone without trying to ring you nationwide). It is possible as evidenced by the location advertisements, to give your location to 3rd parties like the restraunt you just drove past. They don't even need a prior relationship with you to get the information. If the restraunt subscribes to a spam phones within 3 miles of here service hosted by the phone company for the revenue stream, the location information can still be kept in-house with the phone company while they take in advertising dollars for spamming you as you drive by. This may be a free service to you and not have the ten cent message SMS fee. Opt out might not save you from that as the restraunt never receives the location information, just the bill for sending the advertisement. Your wife may be able to hit a website and look up your whereabouts even if you are not on the phone. It is possible you will not given the option to opt out? I wonder how many distracted drivers are going to get into an accident checking a possible important message?
The truth shall set you free!
The problem with it is many places won't bother to advertise that way, so actualy finding a popular spot or one close by that doesn't need to advertise won't be found. You will certanly get advertisements from the trendy places that target the cell phone upscale demographic. You'll find the ones with the big advertising budget with high prices to support the adverts.
Do you have any idea how many times I've grabbed a cityguide from a hotel when traveling to find the nearest good restraunt, only to pass dozens of others on the way to the nearest one listed? I gave up using those guides. Cell phone advertisements just seem to be an extension of the paper brochure in a hotel lobby with the same problems.
In your guidance example you left out one item between Turn left and two blocks. It's pass 4 sidewalk cafe's and one corner diner.
The truth shall set you free!
sheesh. they own it, they ask you to carry it, you agree, you turn it on when you're on call. they know where you are...
as for bill collectors, if you do something illegal (like wander off and ignore a court summons to pay your bill) then the police would be involved as usual and use the tools available to them to find you. this *is not* rocket science.
Your question is a good one, and I have no idea how the implementation works. The article described Bell Labs as implementing a "rules based approach" in their OS. That could mean that the cell phone applies a set of rules to decide whether or not to disclose your location, or it could mean that cell towers apply a set of rules...etc. The article gives precious little detail on that
But, [hypotheically speaking], if I were interested in hiding from the law, I sure wouldn't carry my own cell phone around any way. A legal order could easily open my records, too, and find out who I was calling, and then everybody in my little group would be implicated.[/hypothetically speaking]
Human being (n.): A genetically human, genetically distinct, functioning organism.
There is also an Icelandic company that specializes in location based mobile phone applications (www.landmat.is). Some of their applications include a location based dating service, a gizmo that enables the user to locate services in his current location (restaurants, museums and so on), some sort of a parental watch service has also been launched somewhere in the UK I think although that is not mentioned on their website and many more. They've launched some of these services with partners such as AT&T and T-Mobile UK.
You don't think enough... therefore you better not be!
Kinda like in minority report.
Scan local cell phones, beam personalized ads to you.
They know where you go, pretty easy to build a profile.
Watch enough science fiction and a LOT of these ideas have been thought of.
...or cell phones will become send-only devices when millions of us learn to keep them turned off all the time as the only way to preserve a little peace in our lives.
(When will advertisers learn that what many of us want most from them is SILENCE? How hard is it to understand "go away and *stop bothering me*"?)
We agree that the privacy implications of being trackable are serious. That is why we are developing technology to allow people to control how this imformation is shared. For instance, one can put oneself into "total privacy all the time mode" or "show my presence for the next hour to a client so we can find each other". Fine- grain control of trackability will keep the service useful, rather than intrusive. A big part of the work is on avoiding location-based spam. If you want coupons for a coffee place, you can let them know you are interested during certain times of day or when in certain places. If they abuse it, you turn it off. The point is to restrict the kind of information that can be sent to you to "opt-in" rather than "opt-out". You will not get abusive location-based messages from companies you have not pre-approved if this technology is put in place.
I received my very first advertising text message the other day. (from my cell phone provider no less)
I immediately phoned the company back (rogers.ca) and informed them that if I received ANY further SPAM messages on my phone I would discontinue my (8 year?) relationship with them, and switch to the competition. I explained that I cared about it that much.
I have received no futher mobile phone spam messages. (it's been many months)
It will only be shoved down our throats if we let them. Speak with your wallets.
--- Doug
Solves these problems.
Fuck trollcom's big brother CDMA network
Sign up fast!
SharkJumper
This is all great stuff. Being able to play video games, custom program a phone's ring chimes, take pictures and now satellite track the phone's location. But I still don't understand why I still get cut off when I make calls. So why not make connections clearer? Is there no money in solving the ever annoying connection problems with cell phones?
Here in NYC, the largest city in the U.S. with millions of people owning cell phones, the service absolutely sucks and has marginally gotten better over the years. But thank goodness I got the phone that offers the Splinter Cell 3D action game. Otherwise I'd be in real trouble!
The SIM cards are totally anonymous
The solution is to have the cellphone owner be able to set a price at which incoming messages will be charged. If you want to get restaurant spam, you set the price at free, if you don't want to be bothered, you set it at ten dollars, I would accept a solicitation from a restaurant if they paid me ten dollars to receive it.
Will accuracy be good enough to pinpoint the phone as being in a dumpster (which is usually steel anyway and won't permit a signal to get out)? Or would it just indicate as being somewhere on the block that the restaurant that owns the dumpster is?
If someone wants to know where I am, they can call me and ask "Where are you?" That way I don't have to worry about privacy. If I don't want them knowing, I won't answer the phone or just won't tell them.
From my perspective as a surfer, they offer me nothing. I keep them always turned off and never need them.
If you can read this, turn off your phone!
They can track it when you're not making a call, because when a phone is switched on, it regularly talks to the local cells, both the find out which one has the best signal, and to tell the network that it's there for incoming calls.
If you actually turn the phone off, though, it stops transmitting.
At least on every phone I've ever owned. The only battery charge still used is to keep the clock going.
Politas
We've used this in Norway the last couple of years. Rescue authorities are granted access to the locator system when people are reported missing. I guess this works because we have pretty much 100% geographical coverage. Police can also be granted access to historical records in criminal cases to track the location of specific cellphones used by people involved in the case. The locator information is treated as private and confidential and the police need a court order to have the records released.