True, but I'm confused. Was Black Hat only made aware that Cisco/ISS didn't want this discussed and THEN started ripping the pages out? Or was Lynn under the impression that he could talk about this and there was a change of mind at the last minute? Not that he should or shouldn't have done what he did, but this might explain it.
I'm hoping it fails miserably but it probably won't. Look, most of what they're touting as "features" we already have in other OS's. Yet, through their great marketing, these will be called "innovations." Like when all my MCSE friends used to talk to me about Active Directory. Yeah, Skippy, I liked it years ago when we called it NDS!
Very little. If the 'standar' didn't exist, people would have been managing systems as they alsways have. There were plenty of UNIX, VAX, Netware, and other SA's in existence long before Microsoft had a network OS. If something should happen to Windows, there will be others. My contention is there would be far better security. I don't doubt there are some good MCSE's but there are many many more who have no practical experience outside Windows. As such, they have very little knowledge of serial networks, console commands, and in many cases ethernet and TCP/IP. They are poor troubleshooters often times because they've never had to carry over any previous principles. I've had an MCSE tell me point blank that something couldn't be done that I'd been doing for quite some time. Why? "Microsoft even says so." Microsoft has poisoned these SA's and set them up for an all Microsoft world. As such, these folks have a hard time interacting in multiplatform environments. In the end, they owe it to themselves to learn alternatives.
'Why program a TiVo to get certain shows for you when you can record every single show on the air, all at once, and then use recommendations, search, a grid, or any other means you care to name to figure out which of those thousands and thousands and thousands of hours of programming you want to watch.' Ummm...maybe this is obvious to everyone but him, but I don't WANT to filter through all that programming. TiVO just works great. I'll take anything I can say, "Hey, gimme every 'Good Eats' episode" and not have to filter out 'Big Brother' episodes. Hello!?
Some of the memo's are pretty revealing. FSN has a story on some of it. "We ordered a laptop for Donnie Michaels at WFLY in Albany. He has since moved to WHYI in Miami. We need to change the shipping address." One Sony memo from 2002: "Can you work with Donnie to see what kind of digital camera he wants us to order?" Looks like Rush was right: "glittering prizes and endless compromises shatter the illusion of integrity, yeah!"
If you get close enough to plug in a USB device, you're close enough to boot it to a crack CD and a) wipe the system b) blank the admin password c) take all the data (and copy it to a USB device.
Is it me or is someone merely cutting and pasting all the marketing hype from every other version of Windows, rearranging the words, and putting them in each PR campaign? "It seamlessly connects you to information, people, and devices that help you get the most out of life." Yeah, my dreams are all going to come true! I tell ya, marketing reps...they need to die!
Someone mentioned it, but it's a valid point. How many users have to reload their OS due to issues with Windows. I've had Linux boxen run with ZERO degredation for months on end. The only reason I ever reload is because I either want to move to another hardware platform, or I'm on a development system that I am hitting really hard. If I set up a PC for my kids with Linux it will outlast a Windows box simply because they will download all these little goodies that Linux will ignore. Eventually Windows just starts to choke.
I would put it less vehemently and say that more and more people are getting on board with Linux and Apple. This will only help draw attention away from Microsoft. As they learn that these other systems are more stable, they'll want it. You should see people's faces when I'm working on a removing viruses or malware when they ask, "What do you use to get rid of these on your system?" I say, "I have an Apple system and a Linux system. I don't get these viruses as there are rarely any written for them." I realize it's because Windows is more popular, but moving these people to new systems now will help them now.
The answer is simple, people saw the.com bust and young people are leary. I think that and the technology sector's woes since are just keeping them at bay.
I think you're right on there. It's nice view pictures and such on a small screen, but besides watching a movie on a plane or something, this has little appeal.
MS: "Dear Developers. We would like to thank you for the bastardisation...uh...continuing effort towards open standards. Thanks to you, most sites will only render correctly with IE. That pesky Netscape is now rarely used. Alas, our work is not done! In our ongoing effort to push open standards (author chuckles) we now have to turn our efforts to stamping out Firefox. To this end we strongly encourage you to start coding to IE7 standards. We understand the temptation to code to Firefox as it's the hip new thing. Failing to code to IE7 would make you a traitor, an outcast! We know you will want to do that right thing and as such we have NO plans to have your employer encourage you at this time. Have an innovative day!"
Really, how important is this? The only one's I've heard really excited about this is Microsoft. Others may be players, but that doesn't mean it's going to fly necessarily. I think you'll be hard pressed to get non-MS users onboard unless it's forced upon them and even then moving off will be seen as more "in."
Slashdot Mirror
True, but I'm confused. Was Black Hat only made aware that Cisco/ISS didn't want this discussed and THEN started ripping the pages out? Or was Lynn under the impression that he could talk about this and there was a change of mind at the last minute? Not that he should or shouldn't have done what he did, but this might explain it.
Good point! I miss Netware but I'm really glad Linux and BSD's are out there.
I'm hoping it fails miserably but it probably won't. Look, most of what they're touting as "features" we already have in other OS's. Yet, through their great marketing, these will be called "innovations." Like when all my MCSE friends used to talk to me about Active Directory. Yeah, Skippy, I liked it years ago when we called it NDS!
Very little. If the 'standar' didn't exist, people would have been managing systems as they alsways have. There were plenty of UNIX, VAX, Netware, and other SA's in existence long before Microsoft had a network OS. If something should happen to Windows, there will be others. My contention is there would be far better security. I don't doubt there are some good MCSE's but there are many many more who have no practical experience outside Windows. As such, they have very little knowledge of serial networks, console commands, and in many cases ethernet and TCP/IP. They are poor troubleshooters often times because they've never had to carry over any previous principles. I've had an MCSE tell me point blank that something couldn't be done that I'd been doing for quite some time. Why? "Microsoft even says so." Microsoft has poisoned these SA's and set them up for an all Microsoft world. As such, these folks have a hard time interacting in multiplatform environments. In the end, they owe it to themselves to learn alternatives.
I think Greg Allman put it best when he said, "RAP is short for CRAP."
If you're running Windows, they've already sabotaged your installation.
'Why program a TiVo to get certain shows for you when you can record every single show on the air, all at once, and then use recommendations, search, a grid, or any other means you care to name to figure out which of those thousands and thousands and thousands of hours of programming you want to watch.' Ummm...maybe this is obvious to everyone but him, but I don't WANT to filter through all that programming. TiVO just works great. I'll take anything I can say, "Hey, gimme every 'Good Eats' episode" and not have to filter out 'Big Brother' episodes. Hello!?
Some of the memo's are pretty revealing. FSN has a story on some of it. "We ordered a laptop for Donnie Michaels at WFLY in Albany. He has since moved to WHYI in Miami. We need to change the shipping address." One Sony memo from 2002: "Can you work with Donnie to see what kind of digital camera he wants us to order?" Looks like Rush was right: "glittering prizes and endless compromises shatter the illusion of integrity, yeah!"
And how many of you with silent power supplies have reached over to kick them on thinking they were off!
If the press won't challenge or publish challenges to their theories...
If you get close enough to plug in a USB device, you're close enough to boot it to a crack CD and a) wipe the system b) blank the admin password c) take all the data (and copy it to a USB device.
Is it me or is someone merely cutting and pasting all the marketing hype from every other version of Windows, rearranging the words, and putting them in each PR campaign?
"It seamlessly connects you to information, people, and devices that help you get the most out of life."
Yeah, my dreams are all going to come true! I tell ya, marketing reps...they need to die!
Why do you assume everyone who reads/posts to /. is upset by this?
WooHoo!
Someone mentioned it, but it's a valid point. How many users have to reload their OS due to issues with Windows. I've had Linux boxen run with ZERO degredation for months on end. The only reason I ever reload is because I either want to move to another hardware platform, or I'm on a development system that I am hitting really hard. If I set up a PC for my kids with Linux it will outlast a Windows box simply because they will download all these little goodies that Linux will ignore. Eventually Windows just starts to choke.
I would put it less vehemently and say that more and more people are getting on board with Linux and Apple. This will only help draw attention away from Microsoft. As they learn that these other systems are more stable, they'll want it. You should see people's faces when I'm working on a removing viruses or malware when they ask, "What do you use to get rid of these on your system?" I say, "I have an Apple system and a Linux system. I don't get these viruses as there are rarely any written for them." I realize it's because Windows is more popular, but moving these people to new systems now will help them now.
The answer is simple, people saw the .com bust and young people are leary. I think that and the technology sector's woes since are just keeping them at bay.
Think Magicians. Windows people are like Doug Henning. *NIX people are like Penn and Teller.
You don't have to believe the Bible but have the intellectual responsibility not to make claims about it that it doesn't itself.
I think you're right on there. It's nice view pictures and such on a small screen, but besides watching a movie on a plane or something, this has little appeal.
MS: "Dear Developers. We would like to thank you for the bastardisation...uh...continuing effort towards open standards. Thanks to you, most sites will only render correctly with IE. That pesky Netscape is now rarely used. Alas, our work is not done! In our ongoing effort to push open standards (author chuckles) we now have to turn our efforts to stamping out Firefox. To this end we strongly encourage you to start coding to IE7 standards. We understand the temptation to code to Firefox as it's the hip new thing. Failing to code to IE7 would make you a traitor, an outcast! We know you will want to do that right thing and as such we have NO plans to have your employer encourage you at this time. Have an innovative day!"
Really, how important is this? The only one's I've heard really excited about this is Microsoft. Others may be players, but that doesn't mean it's going to fly necessarily. I think you'll be hard pressed to get non-MS users onboard unless it's forced upon them and even then moving off will be seen as more "in."
Yeah, right. Bush would fall far more into the "Leave the Net alone" crowd. Now Gates? Oh yeah, he'd love this (above post).
I know, ain't it cool? You turn this Internet over to the U.N., Jules, and I'll shoot your ass on general principle!
Correction: I meant W2k3 does a lot to mitigate this. They made SOME imporvements in W2k3.