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Linux Desktops in New Zealand Schools
nigelr writes "The New Zealand Ministry of Education has signed a deal with Novell New Zealand to provide SUSE Linux desktop licenses in schools. The article claims that while the price for a desktop license now matches what Microsoft charge, the new deal will significantly reduce the over all cost due to reduced charges for existing Novell products used in schools around the country."
of Linux that it's free and all that jazz? I mean... paying for it takes away a whole lot of the attractiveness IMHO.
Why are they using a distro that has licensing fees at all? I mean, if you're going to migrate to Linux, why wouldn't you choose a free distro like Ubuntu, and if you needed support you could always urchase it from Canonical...
Not meant as a troll, or even "Distro X > Distro Y", but I don't see what it would be about SuSE that would make New Zealand schools choose them.
PLUS, if they're just now reaching the prices that microsoft charges... why change? You're not saving any money at this point, and you have the costs of migrating everything. I can see if the Linux migration was to free licenses, but "hey, its the same price!" wouldn't make me jump on the Linux boat.
When the guru tried to give it away for free, he was ignored.
When he started SELLING "training" for insane prices, it became all the rage.
The article claims that while the price for a desktop license now matches what Microsoft charge, the new deal ...
Og teach english slashdot editors in new zealand school!?
As a kiwi student, I'm saddened by this news, :-(
my hacking of unsecure school network systems days are over
But on the otherhand it is good to see the playing field levelled.
Too bad schools don't switch to open-source quicker. I doubt anything like a large scale migration will ever happen though (in schools in the US, especially for some poor schools/school districts who don't know they have options), which is actually kind of sad on the part of the students -- now in 3rd world schools, I _believe_ it has already happened to an extent.
Oh well, what the hell
http://www.nbr.co.nz/home/column_article.asp?id=12 417&cid=3
My take - I'm a student at Perth, Western Australia. My school recently got a whole bunch of iMac G5's, and Panther, and they are a nice set of machines. I run a heavily customized ubuntu/Gnome 2.10 setup at home and I would have to say that OS X is all that it's cracked up to be. It has a great interface and file/folder management system (finder), is stable, and seems to be easy to administrate (given that the sysadmins seem to do little work :D).
It's a great choice for a school desktop, due to it's ease of use and solid support base. I use Linux at home and prefer it's data management capabilities, but there will always be a place for OS X in my heart.
At least until the GNOME team creates an expose-like function
"Sure there's porn and piracy on the Web but there's probably a downside too."
The problem is, no matter what kind of platform you use, the ease of maintenance has a pretty big impact on how much it costs. The 'free' part of Linux is nice for individual users or companies who have full-time IT staff, but for a school I think using a distro where they get support is a good choice. School IT staff is usually running tight as it is. Plus, now those kids will have a chance to learn something besides Windows at a younger age. I'm sure they'll get Windows exposeure elsewhere, so now they won't be locked into the 'Windows is all that I know, so let's use windows' pattern later.
In a few years, people will no longer be saying, "everyone knows Windows... we expect new employees to know Windoze... it would cost too much to re-train our staff who only know Whindoes..."
It's the beginning of the end of the desktop monopoly. Kids will no longer be programmed with a view to maintaining the power structures of the status quo.
Surely in vain the net is spread in the sight of any bird -- Proverbs 1:17
There's a big underswell push for Linux in schools happening around the UK too...
Times Educational Suppliment ran it a few weeks ago. You needed the paper version for the full article but this is a good summary and primer: http://www.tes.co.uk/2094985
Now... Can everyone who has kids in the UK start asking the teachers about this at their next school visit?
It's a pretty well known fact that if you TEACH *CHILDREN* to use Linux and not Windows from the start, it will filter up through the years and (with any luck) become the system of choice in the home too... Then the last 'bastion' will be industry... and with 1000's of up and coming children leaving schools with skills fully developed in Linux, the old excuse of 'training' kinda starts working against Microsoft. 'Cause none of the kids use it (nor want to). It's the same trick Microsoft used (Free O/S etc for schools).
Hope I haven't failed to explain in enough detail all of this, and you can all 'join the dots' and see where this might be going.
So... Start hassling your teachers NOW. I personally *am* getting involved in a new school to get all their computers on Linux from the start. When it opens in September.
If you're *serious* about wanting to see a less monopolostic computing environment, but don't know where you should put your effort in to help... This is the place... IMO
Visit London Scalextric Club
The Novell deals lets schools buy software for the same cost as Microsoft products, about $99 per product per server for a year-long licence.
v er/pricing.html
This is a strange statement, due to TFA later saying the following:
The ministry won't comment on the cost of the contract.
Further investigation to this shows the following server costs from Novell's site:
http://www.novell.com/products/linuxenterpriseser
These are all non-haggled prices, too. There is nothing on there for $99, and I wouldn't think that they would be buying new servers just to change over the OS. Elseware I saw that these prices are supposed to include one year of matenence as well. Either I really missed something, or there is a flaw in Mr. Schwarz's journalism. Anybody have any insite into this little paradox?
Vol~
I guess the point here is that instead of having a solid Debian or a powerful Gentoo GNU/Linux, institution, companies, schools, prefer to have technical assistance and a commercial product in general, which will then be open source.
Do not forget that together with the SuSe package (that I do not really like myself) it comes a very well organized guide oriented for that distribution in particular, plus they have a phone number to call if they want professional help.
On the other hand, if the system adminnistrator was good enough to do everything in his own, he could have install e Debian through the whole netowrk, asking help to the community when needed. But that doesn't happen often, so you get these commercial packages.
I do not think that this is a problem, as long as it is Linux and not some creepy linux-similar distribution with tons of closed source application is fine to me.
RegardsThat's not what Wikipedia says..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chopsticks (see the bottom)
I could have swore that said "Linux Destroys New Zealand Schools". Wow.
the contract could be for 500 Suse licenses -- like .0042% of New Zealand's 120,000 computers. The article doesn't say. Considering that the "three-year licensing contract with Microsoft, Apple and Computer Associates signed [by the ministry] last year was worth $27.5 million" there's no way Linux is going to be the primary desktop OS for NZ schools. At $99 a licence it would only take about $12 million of that $27.5 to make every one of those 120,000 computers a microsoft seat.
Ludwig Wittgenstein
who modedd this interesting??? This is uch a stupid and ignorant comment
I know that you've been modded down as a troll, but you have a good point, and even though I disagree with it, I think your post deserves an answer, not a troll mod.
I don't know if any of you noticed, but Linux only has about a 1% share of the desktop market. What is the point of teaching these kids to use a system that nobody else does?
Yes, Linux doesn't have a large share of the desktop market, but it's got a very large piece of the server pie, and is also prevalent in areas like supercomputing involved in scientific research. So the notion that learning Linux has no practical application in the "real world" is simply false. If these kids are doing tech support for the general public, yes, Windows is the system they should learn; if they're writing a program for a scientist to be executed on a cluster of Linux boxes (the job I happen to have right now), Linux is more appropriate.
However, even this is not necessarily relevant. If these kids are supposed to be learning academics (as opposed to vocational training), the operating system is really not that important in terms of how well the kids will learn. A mouse behaves about the same on Windows as on Linux, most of the skills involved in using Office are applicable to OpenOffice.org, etc. The concepts of computer science, for example, are platform-independent, no matter whether you like programming with vi/emacs or Visual Studio. So even programmers, those who have as much to do with computers as anyone, will become just as good programmers no matter which platform they learn on.
So what I'm saying is that in terms of educational value, if students learn Windows or learn Unix, it makes little difference. Also, many of these machines will be servers and computers that students won't come into contact with, and therefore they deserve an OS chosen purely on technical merits.
So, in a nutshell, what I'm saying is that the schools should get what they think is best, whether it's Windows or Linux. Their job isn't to help Microsoft maintain a monopoly just because they already have one.
I have discovered a truly remarkable proof of this theorem that this sig is too small to contain.
Unless I'm mistaken, there is currently very little in the way of Linux-based software for Primary Schools...
Point still stands cause a lot of those computers are probably Macs. But, I made an error: three-year contract, $99 per year means it would cost $36 million for M$ on every computer.
:-)
Last time I use calc.exe (work computer).
Ludwig Wittgenstein
With the "Microsoft Schools Agreement" in New Zealand, one has to count the total number of PCs (Pentium/Apple imac or better) and then Microsoft charges the School on the total units, regardless of OS... So if you are running a linux workstation on a pentium Microsoft still gets its $$$$$ . And the minedu are saying they are leveling the playing field, gee I wonder why? http://www.dsv.co.nz/moe/moe_faq.html
Why are they using a distro that has licensing fees at all? I mean, if you're going to migrate to Linux, why wouldn't you choose a free distro like Ubuntu, and if you needed support you could always urchase it from Canonical...
What kind of support infrastructure does Canonical have in New Zealand?
What does Novell have, for its Linux products?
What does Red Hat Asia Pacific have?
From TFA (this was news last week, but The Dominion Post are running it from the OSS angle rather than the business angle this time):
The deal covers both open source and proprietary products from Novell. Proprietary products include Novell's Open Enterprise Server, asset management tool ZENworks, email and calendar program Groupwise and network security software BorderManager.
It will be of much more advantage to the schools in NZ currently paying ~$13,000 annually to Novell for eDirectory licenses, and those running Windows servers who want to be able to change to running something with similar identity and client management on a Windows desktop. Especially as the PCs will all still come preloaded with Windows, and in the current educational environment of "teach MS Publisher", the desktop component is probably not going to make a splash in schools here.
Many Windows users have got used to the way Windows does things and are too lazy to change to something that requires a bit of brain usage.
What many fail to realise is yes, Linux takes a bit of fine tuning and tweaking, but you typically only have to do this once or twice since you should never need to reinstall.
People so easily forget the days of autoexec.bat, config.sys and all the other config files you were once required to play with in pre Win 95 days.
Oh noes did the mean man say something bad about Linux? Quick! Call him stupid! That'll show him!
Don't bother trying to refute any of the points he made in his post! Linux is perfect and he said something to the contrary so he MUST be wrong!
Fucking peon. Either argue the point or stop wasting everyone's time with your cretinous fucking posts.
I wonder what will actualy change. btw, I got one of our IT managers at school convinced to get FF installed on all pc's (wow, i asked a MS freak to install Firefox on all school pc's :| )
So lets hope that when i start up a pc at school now that i see a firefox icon. That would be a major improvement.
And now to the subject,
They are paying for the support.
Switching from windows to linux isn't easy.
Especialy for schools, if you use software like autocad that doesn't work on linux you have major problems with that. So i think they are paying for more then only linux but for other applications too.
Why are they coy about the fee's being paid? In theory, it is supposed to be a matter of public record and gazetted.
Given that Open Office is marginally free, while WORD if licenced at $99 is (140,000*$99 * 3years) = 41.58 million dollars alone, excluding add ons like project, adobe and some AV package.
Savings = 41-50 Million dollars, plus there is no downside. You would think $41 million would be sufficent motivation, as thats money out of the mouths of children.
There are loadsa girls out there who are very grateful for being freed from Claria/Gator/MSIE :-p
I have been a user for about 10 years. This ends Feb 2014. The site's been ruined. I'm off. Dice, FU
So, in a nutshell, what I'm saying is that the schools should get what they think is best, whether it's Windows or Linux.
Yes, I gathered that. My argument is they made the wrong choice. You cite server admin and the concepts of computer science as examples of platform-independent disciplines, which are all very well and good. But who the hell teaches server administration at that level of school?
Their job isn't to help Microsoft maintain a monopoly just because they already have one.
For this particular job, they also have vastly superior applications. Does that mean we shouldn't use them?
It isn't as if Novell is giving their shit away for free, either. I don't know if all you open-source zealots have noticed, but they're only using the Free stuff to plug the gaps where they don't have any of their own proprietry programs to do the job.
It's excellent news to see that a future generation of Gnome users, and maybe even some Gnome hackers is forming in New Zealand!
IMO, although this is a win for Novell and their distro, it's an even bigger win for the much maligned "simplification" policy that Ximian spearheaded for Gnome. Sure, there are other desktop environments with thousands of configuration options for just about everything, but at the end of the day, this is just further proof that the customise to the max design ethos just isn't practical in a real world environment.
Sunday you're Thinking Different, Monday you're a huge tool, paying too much and waiting to think like everyone else.
then those who ruled by ignorance get phased out by attrition, or the society self-destructs.
Bill G. had one chance to pull the wool over people's eyes, and now the evidence is in front of everybody.
So the GP is right. Either Microsoft throws off the Bill & Steve act, or Microsoft gets plowed into the ground in the next five to ten years as the kids who know _why_ their parent's boxes are full of malware grow up.
And that's not counting the people outside the US and Japan who haven't become numb by constant exposure to MSWindows, who expect computing equipment to actually meet spec.
More info at http://www.idxt.biz/blog.htm - Not useful info, but info nonetheless.
Why the heck is this informative post moderated offtopic? It speaks about New Zealand after all...
to train the sysops on the equipment.
But that actually leaves you with another option -- teach the teachers how to secure their equipment. Just get permission first.
What applications? Which job?
Superior by what criteria?
Superior for what purpose?
Superior according to whom?
Vastly by what scale of measurement?
If you think you have a point, support it!
It's rarely sound policy to make purchasing decisions based purely on adjectives and adverbs.As the GP mentioned, for the purposes of teaching general computer skills, the choice of OS is of little difference. Skills gained on OpenOffice will be readily transferrable to Office. The desktop metaphor isn't so very different that it's going to cause problems either.
And this way the kids get exposed to some alternatives to MS and don't leave school thinking computing begins and ends at Redmond. That's a good reason in its own right.
Don't let THEM immanentize the Eschaton!
Exactly. I don't know where I am with regard to average Slashdot readership, but I certainly never learned Windows at school. The computers all used RISC OS. Aaaah, the memories. The knowledge learned (although I remember a lot of people whinging about potential obsolescence) was completely translatable. I can see that it might still be difficult to sell to the parents though. The rationale is honourable and everything, but parents could quite sensibly think it was all a bit of a white elephant in comparison to training that they themselves might find useful in the workplace...
Teacher: Well little Bobby needs to improve his math skills, he spends way to much time on the computer Parent: Thats exactly what i wanted to talk about. You see dont you think it be more enriching if he waisted time on a OS that came from the Teacher: WTF ....whats linux
Parent: Gahh your such a n00b, get with the ages
Teacher: You try getting with the ages on my salery
Is that what you're trying to say?
(Just want to make sure I understand you.)
I was taucht basic on a Commodore PET and BBC Basic on a BBC/Acorn system at school. My project was worked on a ZX Spectrum at home.
Oddly enough, I still managed to get a job in computers...
no chance of students installing games on them :P
But since the thread is talking about basic users the problem is simpler. It's not a matter of users being lazy. It a matter of the changes being unnecessary. And they're not going to do their own changes anyway, that's the job of IT support.
Face it, Win95/NT/2000/XP/2003 all have different interfaces and behaviors. It's not like dropping a new kernel or even an new OS behind KDE or Gnome: on MS-Windows everything changes. When you change from one version of MS-Windows to another, your basic users will be inconvenienced by it and not like it. Ask them in a non-threatening way, you'll find they do not like the changes in the interface, especially when they're using the computer for exactly the same tasks as before. With a linux distro, they can keep the same GUI behavior and menus -- even in many applications -- for years longer and concentrate on their work rather than learning a new interface.
So, I say again, inconvenience from upgrades is unnecessary for the basic user. Most of these basic users have a computer on their desk to write reports, letters or memos, work a spreadsheet, use e-mail, use the WWW, or print something from any of the above. There's no real reason any of that has to change so often, especially the computer's GUI and applications. In fact if the user is happy with the functionality, then same system and applications could be used indefinitely and there should be no reason to do anything other than the occasional security patch. And a patch should not affect functionality unless some unethical bastard decided to piggyback non-security related stuff into it.
Beta is broken and the link to classic doesn't work. Stop wasting our time or there won't be anybody left here.
you can take this opportunity to really take over.
Become the guru. Do a little social engineering on the sysadmin (i.e., suck up like a groupie). Tell them you want to be like them when you get out of school - but how will you learn?
You'll rule.
Raise your children as if you were teaching them to raise your grandchildren, because you are.
Sorry folks, but I don't get it yet. Reading even the article I don't know what they are talking about.
Novell bought SUSE and now offers the following products:
What is also looking very strange to me is the emphasis of the name SUSE. If you visited the LinuxTag2005 in Germany then you would have noticed that there were not much traces of the brand "SUSE" any more and the Novell presence was limited to one PC at the HP pavillion. That gave a very clear impression that Novell is trying hard to get the name SUSE out of the head of the people, and now not even 4 weeks later they sell SUSE Linux to New Zealand? I'm a bit puzzled.
Are you fucking serious?! That's it, I'm getting the next plane to the UK!
That is United Kingdom Pounds you're talking about right? Not Ukranian Polemski? 'Cause they're only worth a few cents here.
Oh how I wish I still had those mod points that expired yesterday...
Does it go on forever?
The deal is certainly a very interesting option, but there are numerous problems to overcome:
The educational space is very MS application specific, and I'm not joking about this.
With the MS deal having appeared first, I discovered that naturally the school I started working at has a very tight W2k3 infrastructure, based around Active Directory ( not pretty, but it does work when you find out all the undocumented "features" ). Breaking this structure down to work with Linux boxes is currently not an option, I'd simply not be able to get clearence.
I've been trying to get Linux into the school more prominently, but with myself being the only guy with Linux system expertise this is a wee bit hard. Some of the more liberal departments are running Linux specifically for some courses, as it forces the kids to think outside the box [ The Young Enterprise course and their companies have been the benefactors of Mandrake 10.1 ].
The kids have unfortunately bypassed the command prompt stage, so they have no idea about the underlying power of any OS, let alone windows. I'm trying to train a geek squad now, but it's a bit embarrassing for them when they don't even know the dir command... does this matter some may ask? Well it certainly matters when you run 90% of the system updates at high speed through batch scripting.
Right now all schools are currently sorting out which administration packages they will use, some are fine, but most face transferring to a new system at great expense. This requires re-training and immense additional expense in the IT budget, money which does not flow into getting a Linux solution in place.
From what I read, Kirstin school currently has a 50% install base of Linux, I think it was SuSe, and they duel boot their systems for the best of both worlds. I don't have that option, they have about seven technicians for about 350 PC's ( and about 1200 student laptops ), I am one head technician dealing with roughly 450 PC's, and roughly 70 Laptops. I simply cannot train everyone to be able to effectively use it.
However, it's not all doom and gloom, I'm not one to run away from a challenge, and this looks suitably difficult to implement. There is nothing more boring than having everything running smoothly; the kids provide ample entertainment with destroyed PC's and other miscellaneous problems, something which attracted me to the area I work in today [ oh, and lets not even begin people and kids bringing in PC's infected with spyware + viruses ].
Regards,
Nuke Bloodaxe.
Student: You know, sir, it'd be a lot more cost-effective to switch some of these desktops to Linux rather than going for the extremely expensive XP upgrade (with purchase of new computers) that you're planning. And using Firefox would mean less virus-bashing.
Teacher: Linux? Firefox? I don't remember them mentioning those in my MCSE classes...
(not a word-for-word transcription, but conveys the general overtones of the conversation)
For the love of God, please learn to spell "ridiculous"!!!
It is not really important that people pay for support. this seems to be an obvious over head, think of all the other applications that are bundled with your average linux distribution. Openoffice, gcc, perl, gimp etc. All of the equilivent packages from microsoft cost a fortune per package and each still require a liscence. BUt in the linux world it is all part of the distro which is probably covered in the support contract.
Preach it, brother. I have been endlessly cursed by an early exposure to a Timex ZX-81 and Commodore 64, and may never recover from once having owned an Amiga. Oh, my kingdom for the ability to somehow acquire new skills that are similar to the ones I already have!
No, I want my kids learning XP and only XP, and that's been my opinion ever since the United Nations declared it the One True OS For Posterity. I don't want them to look back with shame and horror on the weird systems of their youth as they attempt to learn the Windows path 30 years from now (which will be exactly identical in to current systems - how could we ask them to cope with change?).
Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
I work in a medium size district in the US. We have approximately 12,000 students. One of my duties is to repackage software into an .msi format so it can be deployed throughout the district in a Windows environment. Currently we have about 120 different software apps that are used throughout all the grades. I have yet to see a piece of software come across my desk that has Linux listed under the system requirements.
Don't get me wrong, I would love to see Linux in our district. It's my main OS at home but how do you tell teachers and board members that "yeah, we're going to convert to a better OS that will potentially cost less.....but you know, you might lose a few apps". That wouldn't fly and I'd find my butt out on the street looking for a new job.
I'd love to hear how school district are over-coming the software issue (besides using Wine...). Until textbook and other educational companies start providing Linux apps, I can't even think about deploying Linux on the desktop.
The main problem is that it's not covered by the mainstream media. After all, what's more interesting to a publisher, an article covering something related to a major advertising account holder, or a topic that competes with or irritates said account holder? Cities and countries that go back to OSS tend to fall off the radar of the mainstream publishers. When was the last time you read about OSS usage in Korea (aside from Old People jokes) or Spain?
If you want a high profile case, then you can look at what's been going on in Oregon, and especially at Riverdale Highschool. Or you can check out these sites:
- K12 Linux
- LTSP
- Schoolforge
- Skolelinux
There is some mention of the schools and school districts which use or contribute to Free and Open Source.Beta is broken and the link to classic doesn't work. Stop wasting our time or there won't be anybody left here.
The MS apologists claim that W2k3 servers can be configured to operate using true implementations of both standards. Make them put their money where their mouth is.
Right now they have to hop, sit, bark, roll over, play dead, or drain the budget every time Bill pulls on the leash. Open protocols would avoid that. Doing this up as case study would point the way out or, at worst, help them realize how they painted themselves into that corner.
Beta is broken and the link to classic doesn't work. Stop wasting our time or there won't be anybody left here.
But that price of NLD includes openoffice.org, rather than paying the per seat fee for MS Office.
Windows on a computer = $100 + $150 edu office fee: $250
NLD = $75(?)
Not to mention not having to worry about spyware, viruses, etc.
Also novell was/is quite costly for schools, we were thinking of changing but the cost was just too great, if this new deal helps get more novell servers out there instead of windows servers I am all for it. But the real question is who really is going to support this? I mean you do need someone there that knows what they are doing I mean are you going to call novell every time you need a user created? A lot of the tech's that work at schools in Australia are just out of school and are in traineeships, who is going to teach them to use a Novell server or to configure a Linux desktop?
at any rate I'm glad there is finally some action from the Novell front, quite possibly the only real chance for an alternative in the business and governement sector.
wha? You're trying to make an argument that Linux is the better choice for joe-shmoe desktop user because it's standardized? Are you aware that Linux is a mess? Unless you know what you're doing and know what to look for, switching distros is a mindfuck. Please don't kid yourself. Linux has changed plenty since the days of windows95 (mostly changes that make it feel more like the latest windows "innovation"). It may be alot of things... but one thing that it isn't, is standard. I mean one of the biggest points I keep hearing about it is that you can do whatever you want with it; install whatever packages you want, or strip it down entirely to just the pointless kernel. Windows meanwhile has had the same basic interface for the last 10 years. Startmenu in the same place, with a list of programs. The same clock, and the same general layout. Changes? Sure. But the logic of the software has changed very little from an end-user standpoint. (open prefs panel... make changes... hit OK, Apply, or Cancel) I make no arguments as to which is 'better' but any argument trying to uphold Linux as the stronghold of a standardized computing experience is laughable at best.
Win95/NT/2000/XP/2003 all have different interfaces and behaviors.
1) What skills required of your "basic users" acquired from an earlier version of Windows are inapplicable to a later version?
2) Why would you deploy a server operating system (Windows 2003) to basic users?
Most of these basic users have a computer on their desk to write reports, letters or memos, work a spreadsheet, use e-mail, use the WWW, or print something from any of the above.
Do you remember the upswell of annoyed and terminally confused end-users the last time Microsoft changed all the interfaces for Word[Perfect] or Star Office the last time they upgraded Windows? Probably not, since application interfaces made by someone else don't change functionally between versions of Windows.
If yout users have issues because the colour of the Windows flag in the Start button changed, or because the menu bar highlight defaults to raised instead of blue, there are compounding factors beyond the software.
There are 1.1... kinds of people.
what moron moderated parent as insightsful ?
Sure, if the problem is minor and non-urgent, it makes sense to do the research yourself. But if the problem is major and urgent, Novell has trained staff on hand, 24x7 if you need it. Better, those staff have (likely) seen your problem before, have a roadmap for a solution. They have roadmaps to narrow in on what exactly is the problem. And they can be on the phone with you now, working through the problem in a matter of an hour or two.
For desktops, it may not be likely that the problem is both major and urgent. But even then, if you find a quirky bug, you can get Novell to duplicate it. Novell will write up the bug report, and send it to their own (or open source) developers. Joe Sysadmin may not be comfortable writing up bug reports, but the paid Novell professionals won't shy away from it.
And of course, those bug reports become a part of the troubleshooting roadmap.
Essentially, by paying for support, you have someone on the hook to help you out when you need it most. And because they are pros, they are good at it.
"The most sensible request of government we make is not, "Do something!" But "Quit it!"
I believe SuSE Desktop comes with OpenOffice. It ends up being much less than it's MS counterpart.
Although I am a fan of SuSE, I am concerned with Novell's distribution methods. Getting the Open Source download has become difficult.
One ring to bind them - should probably have more fiber and less rings in their diet.
I think this move is a great one. ... but money, or an attempt to save money.
.. actually it wouldn't happen without it.
... there are some exceptions but they are far and few between. ... that bad, honestly!
Unfortunatly the truth of the matter is it's driven not be technology or education
As for Suse or whatever its called now:
Novell already has an established relationship with the MOE in NZ and it would be foolish for them to adopt linux without some kind of support contract
I work for a small NZ company that is moving towards running 100% linux. In the past I volenteered to work in a small (60 pupil) school doing basic sys admin stuff and prior to that spent many lunch hours penitrating high school networks. There is a serious lack of not only technical know how but quilified teachers in the educational sector in NZ
Moving to Linux should create an environment where students are able to do far less damage (intentional and otherwise) to their systems, keeping in mind most school computers here are run simlar to home desktops
The best things about this.... they might actually be forced to update the curriculum and teachers skill sets!
STFW!
Jus curious, what's the W?
I have been comparing this license with IT managers in America which has been interesting as the count method described below for the MS licenses seems to be similar. I have not read any American MS schools agreements.
The NZ MS schools agreement license (http://www.dsv.co.nz/moe/)has an interesting section on license counts. The count (which is used directly for billing for private schools) for the number of PCs/notebooks to be licensed is calculated in an interesting way. The license is such that the count includes ALL pentium or powerpc classed PC/notebooks even if they DONT run MS software. There is no way around this in the MS schools agreement license.
It is my understanding that there are are many PC/Mac mixed schools in NZ.
The Apple schools agreement (http://www.apple.co.nz/education/moe/) shows that the registration asks for "Number of Apple computers in the school". I do not see a link to the Apple schools agreement license on this site, just this information on registration.
I would like to read the Novell agreement as I wonder how the Novell and MS license could co-exist in a school without double-counting (like an Apple/MS mix would seem to have)? Of course, this question can not be answered until the Novell license is available.
Each NZ school has a choice of what licensing they use. They can choose to use none, some or all of the MOE schools agreements. How or if they are billed directly depends on their license choice and their school type (state or private)
The NZ MOE is offering choice; Microsoft, Apple, Novell and Anti-virus for licensing with schools agreements.
It's about how Linux distros and other F/OSS systems are modular. Sure things are generally the same between different versions of MS-Windows or MS applications, but generally is not the same as exactly the same. Menus getting moved around do bother the basic user. Power users are a different matter, but as indicated in the parent post, they're not who we're talking about.
When non-technical people I have met get moved from one version of MS-Windows to another or to a different version of MS-Office, they do not like it and will bitch about it. They may or may not bitch at work for fear of repercussions (I saw one site where the file sharing stopped working when they went over to MS-Windows from Netware, but everyone was too scared for their jobs /references to speak up and just ran up and down the halls with disks instead), but they do bitch about it.
If people are happy with an application, no need to change how it works. If people, are happy with how an OS is set up, no need to change how it behaves. Same goes if they are not happy with either, but have gotten used to them anyway.
C'mon, you'd bitch too if every so many months the gear layout on your own car changed around based on the whim of your auto dealer. First the shift is on the steering column, then it's on the floor, reverse is on the upper left, next reverse is on the lower right, one day there are five gears instead of four and then back to four again, over the holidays the gear ratios change, etc. You get the idea. Changes? Sure. But the logic of the transmission has changed very little from an end-user standpoint.
Linux distros standardized? Not yet. However, that's not the point of the post. The point was that a stable configuration can be supported for a very, very long time with Linux or other F/OSS systems. People even make fun of Debian for excelling at it. You get the idea no. It's about stability of the user's environment.
Beta is broken and the link to classic doesn't work. Stop wasting our time or there won't be anybody left here.
The problem is the design of the MS-Windows systems and applications don't allow that kind of thing. If you have NT 4 and want to drop in the NT 5 (aka MS-Windows 2000) kernel or the NT 5.5 (aka XP) kernel, you can't do that. Likewise if you want to keep the NT 4 kernel and skin it with XP eye candy, you can't do that . Nor can your IT support team patch individual applications or services without affecting the functionality and configuration of many others. Some "patches" have broken more than they've fixed. You don't have those problems in a properly designed, modular system.
Besides all those MS-Windows systems are bought and paid for. Why the f*%^$$# can't people keep using them as they are? They're bought and paid for aren't they? The occasional patch may be needed for specific problems, but a patch should not affect functionality unless some unethical bastard decided to piggyback non-security related stuff into it.
Beta is broken and the link to classic doesn't work. Stop wasting our time or there won't be anybody left here.
Don't forget that the BOFH comes from New Zealand...
Nice troll. 0% of any place I've worked at uses WordStar, but I had no problem applying general wordprocessings skills to WordPerfect, then Word and then OpenOffice - with no re-training for any of the transitions.
You make the mistake of thinking you can educate the fundamental stupidity out of people. You can't.
what are you talking about? Learning something like Windows XP will take no time at all, especially if they already have Linux experience.
Oops - I forgot to close the tag.
Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?