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Getting A Handle On Vista
visination.com wrote to mention a news.com article which runs down some of the basics on MS's new Operating System. From the article: "Among the key features of Vista as it currently stands are: security enhancements, a new searching mechanism, lots of new laptop features, parental controls and better home networking. There will also be visual changes, thanks to Avalon, ranging from shiny translucent windows to icons that are tiny representations of a document itself. On the business side, Microsoft said Vista will be easier for businesses to deploy on multiple PCs and will also save costs by reducing the number of times computers will have to be rebooted."
"... Microsoft said Vista will be easier for businesses to deploy on multiple PCs and will also save costs by reducing the number of times computers will have to be rebooted."
Reboot = Coffee Break
will also save costs by reducing the number of times computers will have to be rebooted.
They have said this with every major release. Are things really getting better?
I am being hopefully on Vista being a good OS. With alot of new featurs and hopefully alot better security it looks all in all to be pretty good. I dont ahve many gripes with XP and i overal like it, but there could be alot of improvlements, I hope, for the sake of the future of IT that these improvments turn out to be good and useful
Visit My Blog at http://spaces.msn.com/members/chrisharries
On the business side, Microsoft said Vista will be easier for businesses to deploy on multiple PCs and will also save costs by reducing the number of times computers will have to be rebooted. Computers have to be rebooted?
Microsoft Sucks, F/OSS Rocks. I get mod points now right?
But seriously, this all sounds like pretty smoke and mirrors (how can I possibly pass on platoons of new widgets?) Any solid reasons for my work site, which has several hundred workstations, to deploy this when we just recently stabilized and standardized on WinXP SP2? No?
"Who are in control, they are not in control of anything - they don't even control themselves!" - Glen Beck
Even diehard MS fans have to be wondering what the hell is going on up in Redmond.
I'm no open source freak, but the trend seems clear that the time to migrate to Linux is here for anyone who doesn't have one or more must have apps that still only run on Windows.
I guess the real question is:
Do you really still want to be running Windows in 2006?
Longhorn went from something that is safe, secure and stable with lots of new features into a bunch of marketing fluff.
Windows Millennium anybody?
Transparency . . . Icons that preview the docs . . . sounds like KDE circa 2002. Really impressive, MS.
and will also save costs by reducing the number of times computers will have to be rebooted.
How about saving costs by reducing the number of licenses you will have to pay per family?
Realistically... I think not. On a new install - which is what they are referring to I believe, a Dell can get you back to a windows login in about 10-12 seconds. 10-12 seconds usually spent talking or doing some other chore. Not like it actually saves mountains of time. If you are doing LOTS of pc building.. well during that 10-12 second, you are working on another PC. Not like that time is wasted. Get real marketing ppl.
this alone will be worth the upgrade: Rather than having to remember the single folder where something is stored, users will be able to put documents in any number of virtual folders. They can also establish folders that will automatically update, such as "files edited in the last week" or "documents from Jane." I've always hated the way files are stored on a computer... I understand it, of course, but I hate it. The whole point of a computer is to do the work FOR me, you know?
Beauty is just a light switch away.
What about the others out there still running windows 2k? Vista is too far off... and too expensive. Linux seems to look better and better with each PR release from Microsoft.
What I wan to know, is what is being changed under the hood. Everything mentiond except parts of "improved security" can run in userspace.
icons that are tiny representations of a document itself.
... bring it on!
Oooh. This must be the mauch vaunted innovation that we hear so much of
That reminds me when they said Windows '95 would run on a 386DX with 4 MB of RAM.
To me there doesn't seem like there is much to warrent a $150(CDN) price. The security features should be offered free to XP users, and besides the the new interface and searching it looks more like a service pack.
It appears from here that how Monad is going to be released (i.e. with Longhorn, with IIS, .net, or something) is not known yet. Personally, I am unfamiliar with VMS (I am only familiar with ksh, bash) but nonetheless, I plan to familiarize myself with Monad. Maybe later on a ksh-like shell could run atop MSH? I hope MSH will be ready in time for Windows Vista release.
Powered by caffeine and sugar; BSD
Will my PC run Vista?
That depends on how recently you bought it. If you bought your PC before eleven months from now, then no.
... but I don't want something named after this running on my desktop. :)
"will also save costs by reducing the number of times computers will have to be rebooted."
I'm so excited! All these wonderful enhancement for Visa (once again, folks, the "t" is missing for a reason!) have got me drooling.
I just had a new machine installed at work. The tech let me copy my old machine stuff up to a network server, and back down on the new machine. Then he set me up for the Windows domain.
Can't log on - "Cannot connect to the domain. The domain may be down or unavailable, or the account might be wrong. Try again later." After several tries including Sysprep'ing the machine again, etc.
So we're trying tomorrow morning, because apparently the freakin' AD servers don't replicate often enough, nor do they replicate from the closest server to my subnet, but from the main one located thirty blocks away. So it will be, oh, two or three months probably before the freakin' AD server my machine logs onto is notified that I exist.
Brilliant.
Rest of the day I spent installing my stuff that had to be uninstalled because it was on the other drive I no longer have. So my Winamp, Firefox, Thunderbird, jEdit, SQLTools all work.
It's just Windows networking that doesn't work.
I JUST CAN'T WAIT for a Windows which won't have to be rebooted as often.
This will really justify buying that new 3GHz CPU with 1GB RAM and 100GB of hard disk necessary to run the OS ALONE.
I'm SO stoked.
Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
Of course when touting a 'forthcoming' product, the pitch is going to be focused on the improvements its going to bring. Due to the length of time it's taking to get Vista out the door, the improvements and new features Microsoft are publicising now had better be impressive, otherwise they're going to be old news by the time the product actually ships. A new release of Windows is always going to be a 'big deal' to the computer-using masses sheerly because of its market penetration, but competitors like OS X have stolen the thunder on GPU-accelerated interfaces and improved filesystem metadata. At the end of the day, it wont be that these features are cutting edge, it'll be that they're available to the masses in something with high market penetration.
As for the new deployment features, I can't help but wonder how many organizations by the launch date will be considering deploying alternate operating systems instead, as Windows new foundations are compared directly with the latest and greatest Linux distrubutions have to offer...
Business Voyeur
in my city (on a search engine), once this thing hits (I live in Vista - the city). Bloody Microsoft. Pick a good name next time.
Windows 2000 was advertised before it's release as only having 7 events that would necessitate a reboot.
So lets see what else new they've added. A new UI? I could really care less. Indigo doesn't really add anything different to the OS experience. There have been programs to add transparency out for windows for a while and if I really wanted transparency I could have done it. I really could care less about it. Icon previews? Are they really that important? 90% of the time you know what file you want and you don't need a little preview icon to show you its contents. The same goes for searching. I'd rather have my files in an organized manner and not in some random "virtual directory structure." Sure I could use the search tool to find the file for me, but what if I've completely forgotten the file name or a a few words in the file, but I do know that it's a file from my history class that I took junior year. Sure I could search by date but it'd be much easier if I had organized all my files in terms of "My Documents -> School work -> Junior Year -> History 101 -> some_file.doc." (which I currently do).
The only thing I see MS doing with this release is trying to creep up on the updates that Mac OS X or some of the linux versions have added. All the new great improvements like WinFS got scraped.
I really don't see any point in upgrading.
Now only if we could get slashdot to spell check... :~)
http://thebs413.blogspot.com/2005/07/nt-60-longhor n-technology-hasta-la.html
Damien
other lovely "security features" include Protected Media Path, Component Revocation, Windows Driver Lockdown
This machine will be even MORE locked down than what was proposed under Hollings' "fritz chips" bill...
Designed to be "fully compliant" with hollywood's AACS media lockdown technology, It will be useless to anyone wanting to use a PC for more than an overpriced DVD player.
VLC FOR MAC IS DYING! IF YOU DEVELOP, PLEASE SAVE IT!!
...new searching mechanism...
That sounds vaugly familiar. Hmmm...Perhaps Apple's new Spotlight. Na, it wouldn't be that.
Go to the w3.org and put Slashdot.org through the validator.
Myself, I'm not so hot on everything being a web app. http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/APIWar.html
Translucent windows and Icons that look like the documents they represent. Are we talking about KDE or Windows. I wonder if M$ plans on making a patent and sue the KDE project. Maybe its time for M$ to come up with there own ideas and stop stealing other peoples ideas. For the life of me I cant think of one thing that M$ has done first.
CyberCPU.net
Do they figure that into the TCO now? How many times you need to reboot?
*DrugCheese rants*
There is no "userspace"! There is only MICROSOFTspace! I mean, what are you going to do, run the Win95 GUI layer on a XP kernel? Or vice versa? I don't THEENK so!
Under-the-hood features I expect to see: "improved" DRM, "improved" ability for IE to displace/take over from Firefox/Opera/etc., "improved" ability to prevent "untrusted" apps (like OpenOffice.org) from working, "improved" draconian license terms, "improved" patent coverage, and so on and so on.
"...a new searching mechanism..."
Finally, the searching dog will bark for us. Maybe it will follow the cursor. That's something we can all appreciate.
No, you have much to learn, Grasshopper.
Do you really still want to be running Windows in 2006?
Yes.
Help Brendan pay off his student loans
MS claims they'll be able to reduce costs by reducing the number of times the system will have to be rebooted.. Hmm.. I could swear I heard this before.. where was that.... oh yes, now I remember
They said the EXACT same thing when Windows XP was on the horizon. They wanted to eliminate reboots after application installs and the like, and guess what... I don't think it really worked. I swear pretty much every time I install some app or another, it asks me to reboot the system, ESPECIALLY MS apps such as their own AntiSpyware, Visual Studio, etc. and every time they release some security update (on a nearly weekly basis) I *still* need to reboot. Drives me nuts, especially since I tend to have a many-windowed workspace open for many days at a time (or would, if it wasn't for their damn reboots!).
"On the business side, Microsoft said Vista will be easier for businesses to deploy on multiple PCs and will also save costs by reducing the number of times computers will have to be rebooted."
I don't know about the rest of you, but I do all of our software deployments at night when there is nobody around. So if we do it at night, how is reducing the number of reboots saving us money?
And I really hope nobody out there does deployments during the day, ie. Business hours.
But if it's referring to the fact most companies keep their PC's on for weeks at a time how could a 30 sec. reboot really save us money?
A Windows OS that terminates an application when I tell it to do so. Why should I have to press 'End Process' 5 times and click on 2 dozen 'End Task' dialogs in order for the app to shutdown (if it even does). Is Windows second guessing me?
:)".
Only after the 27th time Windows XP does finally say 'You know... I think you might like me to close that process for you. Here you go peasant. No, you don't have to thank me!
It is possible that they are overstating the RAM requirements, but holy cow, that seems like a whole crapload of memory to run... what, exactly? 128 MB is suggested for XP Pro, but I know that's more or less BS, because I run Pro, and tend to use ~300 MB on average, and I rarely have anything extra running besides Firefox, gaim, and AVG. So, does that mean they're actually understating the RAM requirements?
Anyway, just from reading the article, I am not inclined to spend the money on upgrading. As of now, none of the new features seem very impressive.
In other news, the Debian developers announced today that "by holiday season 2006 we'll have everything that Windows Vista has-- and a pony."
stories, whose three sentences contain all the information of the article they reference. Sort of like those movie trailers that manage to encapsulate every worthwhile scene of an entire movie in just one minute.
Dan East
Better known as 318230.
Although I can't say I'm using Spotlight at all.
I cannot understand why people want their computers to do _all_ their thinking for them. Thinking is half the fun of being a sentient animal.
If the computer does all the thinking for you, what's left to do? Nothing but behave like a context free grammar or a finite state machine.
grumble mutter grumble mutter grumble mutter peep grumble mutter
...and yet...most people will not load Linux of you gave them a blowjob.
Figure it out.
Now I have a good reason to upgrade my PC and since MS has taken some of the more advanced features (WinFS, Web Services, etc.) out of the default install and spent more time focusing on enhancing the core useability features (even though some are just eye candy) and working on the less glamorous things like security checking and code validation so the end state product should be outstanding. Can't wait!
Oh, wait... this isn't www.ms-fanboys.com...
I can see Steve Ballmer now, jumping around on stage yelling "DRM, DRM, DRM!!"
Device drivers are still basically WDM, but there is this new Windows Driver Foundation that is basically an MFC for drivers.
So under the hood it's still good ol' NT, but a lot of code has been moved from the developers hands into the DDK via the new WDF.
DevStudio will probably have new wizards added by the DDK to create drivers, like NuMega Driver studio does now.
Nobody says that. BSOD in 98 was as common as the clap in a sorority.
That said, following the same analogy, I still wouldn't do XP without wrapping it up first.
If you ask me, I don't really see how this works. I suppose you could control web content on IE, but that's about it... It's already possible to keep other people from viewing restricted folders (file permissions/ownership). Joe Sixpack probably isn't smart enough to secure his box anyway. You'd be suprised how many Windows users don't realize that there's an administrator account available when you reboot in safe mode. Yay, your Windows box is now own3d.
I will load Linux if you give me a blowjob. When can we schedule a time? My preferred distro is unpopular here (RHEL4), but it's still Linux.
"Who are in control, they are not in control of anything - they don't even control themselves!" - Glen Beck
The quote of the day (at the bottom of the page) is:
"The reason they're called wisdom teeth is that the experience makes you wise."
I think it's wrong. Wisdom teeth often make you smart. Wise, I don't see.
Alpha blending (or "layered windows", as Microsoft calls it) was introduced in Win2k, along with all of the fancy effects (fading menus, tooltips, etc). XP's biggest "lickable" contribution was the built-in theming engine (that was neutered out of the box by only allowing Microsoft-signed themes, but was quickly hacked when XP was still only in beta).
If you could care less, that means that you do care somewhat. Otherwise, you couldn't care less. So I guess you do care. Anyway, the time cost of a reboot is not measured from when you click "Reboot" to the time the login screen comes back up. It's measured from when you're warned that a reboot needs to happen and so you have to stop working, to the time you've logged back in, started up all your apps, gotten back to the point in the code or document where you were before you had to reboot, and context switched back into "work mode". Context switches are expensive for computers, and they're much more expensive for people. Reboots cause you to lose more work than the time it takes the PC to get back to the login screen.
I almost agreed with you about the laptop stuff being useless until you added this. I have a nice laptop, but playing DVDs on it is the last thing I want to do. When I'm using my laptop I'm working or playing. When I'm watching a DVD, I'm in my home theater area (if you can call a 4 year old HDTV, cheap 5.1 setup, and 4 year old progressive scan DVD player a "home theater"). If I do want to run a DVD on my laptop, chances are I want to do other stuff as well. If you're buying a laptop to be a dedicated DVD machine, why not spend $200 on a portable DVD player rather than $1200 on a laptop?
There you go, caring again. But you're wrong anyway. First, Aero (the new UI) is not mandatory (just as Luna, the XP UI was not mandatory -- you could still use Classic). Second, Avalon, not Indigo, is the updated presentation layer (Indigo is some networking thing). Third, it's not just about the transparency. It's about hardware acceleration using your idle 3D accelerator, and using vector graphics to have good looking, well-scaling graphics and images.
I'll buy this argument. Two Word documents, or even a text file and a Word document, look pretty much identical at 32x32 or 64x64 (and I really don't want 128x128 or 256x256 icons).
The same goes for searching. I'd rather have my files in an organized manner and not in some random "virtual directory structure." Sure I could use the search tool to find the file for me, but what if I've completely forgotten the file name or a a few words in the file, but I do know that it's a file from my history class that I took junior year. Sure I could search by date but it'd be much easier if I had organized all my files in terms of "My Documents -> School work -> Junior Year -> History 101 -> some_file.doc." (which I currently do).
You could use filesystem attributes to tag your f
Thankyou, Bill.
IIRC, WINXP came out about FOUR AND A HALF YEARS ago. They have gutted major planned parts of the OS to get it out by next year. Are they short-handed on programming staff? Eye-candy and "magic" folders just doesn't sing for me. And the DRM Bravo-Sierra they are talking about could make the OS useless to me. (This could be why I have SuSe on my other box :-)
My wife doesn't listen to me either...
Hmmm... ~3GHz and 768Mb-1Gb RAM: Sounds like a DTR! But what about Intel's ultra low voltage (ULV) based laptops... or any other non-DTR laptops?
"It would be wrong to refuse to face the fact that everything is fundamentally sick and sad."
"...I can often be loud and opinionated, and when I am so, I tend to justify what I say and ground it in fact...."
You actually see yourself that way. Amazing.
Samsung took back my unlocked bootloader because Google wants me to rent movies. They're both evil.
Is it just me or does anyone else think a team of 10 working on the next version of Windows would be further along than this?
that the more stuff that MS adds to windows to make it more user friendly, the slower it run. MS likes to pack windows with so much bloatware that its no wonder there are so many new exploits each day.
Buyer beware.
A morning without coffee is like something without something else.
...but you may actually do a mistake by just thinking "XP is good enough for us" and shrugging it off with a premature "Any reasons to use this? No?" like you do.
Did you read the part in the parent about the site having several hundred PCs? An upgrade like that ain't exactly trivial, or cheap. So yes, I agree the default attitude should pretty much be "Is there sufficient reason to justify the time, effort and resources required to upgrade to New Shiny Hotness worth it, given what we have with Old and Working Just Fine right now?"
And offhand I don't see "Fewer Reboots" and "Nifty Icons" cutting the mustard.
Most of these things run in "hype-er-space", and whether they will ever be able to run in "userspace" is yet to be determined.
The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
They have said this with every major release. Are things really getting better?
Goebbels would certainly say they are!
Does it strike anyone else as incredibly BAD timing for Microsoft to release a demanding UI for their next OS when Apple is moving to x86?
All the comparisons everyone has always wanted to make on a level playing field will be made. Microsoft will have a newly taxing UI while Apple will be using a Unix-based kernel.
Now, this could be MS catching up to the overhead Apple's OS X already has. It could be that any additional overhead in Vista will prove to be quite worthwhile, as GUI eventually did in comparison to the command-line interface.
All that is debatable. But for Microsoft's sake, it had better prove to be a good choice.
Maybe you haven't run Win 98 in a while, but I have no need to change my IP, and in any event, Windows XP SP2 which we have here at work *does* require a reboot before any of the networking changes I make actually go into effect. (Try it, it gives you this little yellow triangle with a ! in it telling you you have to reboot.)
I don't really need to reboot either of them very often, although this is probably more because I don't install or remove lots of hardware, programs, etc. and generally have them administered in a reasonable manner.
The file permissions is a non-issue in my case--it's really a single-user machine--and it's not running any of the zillion XP services that make it pretty much require a firewall.
So no, I'm really not seeing any fewer crashes & reboots when comparing two machines, one Win 98 SE and the other Win XP SP2, both administered by me.
That said, I don't need very many reboots of either, all told, on average.
Ten years from now, you're going to find yourself digging through the backups anyway.
If you have so many things going on that you can't remember where you put it all, you need to either lighten your load or learn better organization skills.
Spotlight may have some uses, but it is no substitute for organization. If you get it organized now, it's far more likely to be in an organized state in your backups in ten years.
Well, that said, without something like Spotlight and very good incremental backup software, aliases do tend to break. However, if you expect Spotlight (or the MSLonghorn equivalent) to organize for you, you're going to be disappointed.
Hay guyz did anyone make any 'Hasta la Vista' jokes yet?!?!
that would be pretty funny guys
Vista doesn't seem to add much value for a couple of reasons (off the top of my head)
* The current builds of windows are not easy to deploy on a larger scale, however, there do exist imaging CDs and unattended install scripts that make this quite easy.
* The primary activities on the desktop PC are surfing the internet, office suite (email, word processing, spreadsheets), IM, graphics and games. Vista doesn't bring much value to any of these as XP did when it replaced 98 (it was a major face lift, lots of PnP and driver issues were addressed, networking was significantly improved, office XP did not run on 98, major memory leaks, BSOD etc).
* It's biggest competitor is XP/2003. I don't think anyone's mom will want to upgrade considering XP is already doing well for them. Further, there is a slow paradigm shift toward web services and thin browser-based clients (it will still be a couple of years before you can expect to use a web-based word processor but we're getting pretty close).
* IE won't be as big a selling point since it doesn't share the same prestige as it did during the XP release with which it was bundled (primarily because moz is better and IE7 will have to be backward compatible with IE6 and MS has a greater obligation to comply with standards now more than ever).
* The support cycle for 2003 and XP have been extended to 2008 (not certain -- correct me if I'm wrong)
* Parental controls and user authentication could be improved further still and if done right they would add some value.
That said, the OS will probably still come into wide use due to the piracy (~90%+ copies of existing windows copies in China are pirated). DRM and other similar features may become a selling point toward corporate adoption (although they will diminish user control which might discourage migration to Vista).
-- Binary Finary
Let me be the first to welcome Windows users to the features MacOS X has had for half a year and those that it has had for the last 3 years.
What's that? It's not out yet? Oh well, I'm sure Windows users will be happy once it is.
I am not a robot. I am a unicorn.
and those be? working suspend-to-ram? honestly, i can't think of "laptop features" in todays laptops that don't work with current windows versions.
ok, now here's a point. "Parental control" is basically censorship. Now I don't say that it's bad per se. I have a 9yr old son myself, and I'm most likely the first to say that there are websites that are not
Like X.org with the composite extension? Like KDE does it since when, last millennium? Where's the point in that, other than having a reason to grab the latest geforce/radeon/$INSERT_HIGHEND_GFX_CARD_HERE?
So they finally admitted that the "unattended installation" is still a pain in the ass, and that rebooting after every software install even more so?
....Computer reboots you!
yeah,yeah mod me whateva, I dont shit
This sounds just like the usual Microsoft hype to me. Given Microsoft's track record I don't believe a bit of this until I actually see it. The fact that Microsoft is currently facing a number of lawsuits over using some of those features in Longhorn/Vista makes me even more sceptical about any of this.
... this article should be titled "Getting an HWND on Windows Vista."
If you mod me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine.
I don't understand this whole DRM issue. I hope when it hits the shelves that there is holy chaos and returns galore. I don't understand how Microsoft can implement something that SHUTS OFF your video card if the manufacturer hasn't complied with MS's DRM requirements?!?! That just has to be illegal in some fashion. Btw, the thing where all the MoBo manufaturers are getting together to make a DRM'd "bios" of sorts sounds an awful lot like a cartel to me. If anything, it's FORCING people to buy certain things and preventing democratic competition. What's that economic principle that says that sometimes the product that sells the most isn't necessarily the best, but people buy it because lots of other people buy it (more support, functionality etc.)? I dunno, but if that didn't exist, windows would be out my f'ing window right now, and Kubuntu linux would be the only thing remaining.
I must say that Longhorn is a disappointment.
:-)
It will have new features but I don't see anything worth upgrading.
As far as the reboots, XP/2003 has gotten much better than 2000 and the 9xs. You can install Office, IIS, MSSQL, and most security updates without rebooting. It is getting better. I appreciate not having to reboot at work since my machine has 5 database servers (Oracle, MSSQL, PostgreSQL, MySQL 4.1, MySQL, 5.0), 2 web servers (IIS,Apache), and a number of application servers running for development. Those services, along with my massive AD profile require up to 15 minutes for my machine to reboot so I don't like it.
MS has not slowed down in the consumer front since all new computers will come with it in 2006. I will still pick up a copy of course but I just hope that my PC (700Mhz Athlon w/512MB) still runs it. My main machine is a G4 with Tiger (best OS ever, hands down) so I don't need it but I do like Redmond Kool-Aid
Business adoption seems to be slowing although it isn't any different than before. If something works they why upgrade. I know of a few 1000-seat corps who still use Windows 98 connected to an NT 4.0 server. They're upgrade cycle will be 2003 an XP rather than Longhorn. Studies have shown that most busniesses are using 2000 on the workstation so they will skip Longhorn and wait for Blackcomb (remember that codename that vanished since Longhorn took so long). All of our workstations (over 1000) are XP. Engineering just got upgraded Dell PCs so they along with the rest of the company won't be upgrading anytime soon. We usually coincide OS upgrade with hardware upgrade, every few years.
Microsoft is showing the effects of having too many people dipping their fingers in the Kool-Aid. I was surprised though of the release of MSN Maps improvements so close to Google Maps hybrid release. MS has MapPoint technology on the web long before Google, although the interface was non-friendly just like Mapquest.
MS still has innovation (or just copy-it for that matter), they just need to foster it like Google does with its pet projects. With the talent that MS has, they should be able to come up with good ideas, and not take 10 years to do so.
MS touts the amount spent on R&D each year as a sign of their innovation but they've wasted more money than what their competitors will make over the next 5 years and they still have nothing to show for. Use that R&D money to give your developers a free day just like Google and you'd still be spending less than what you are now only you'd have something to show for, including much happier employees, which alone will help.
Pfft that's easy:
HLOCAL CWnd::GetHandle() const;
(sorry)
From TFA: Is that all? No. Among the other features Microsoft has publicly confirmed are: broad IPv6 support ...
Mind you, I am no fan of Microsoft, but I'm thinking that this can really help speed along the efforts to get IPv6 in widespread use.
It's a good thing, methinks.
-Scott
My other sig is a Glock
Osho
KDE is KDE, you know, but...
Stardock is not Microsoft.
This is fairly obvious, I know...
So now that icons can preview my documents does this mean a whole new class of icon viruses?
And how much of the document does it preview? Could this present a HIPPA violation by having patients files exposed on the desktops at the doctors office?
Just what we need, the OS actually accessing the contents of your documents to generate pretty pictures just smacks of potential exploits and security holes.
"users will be able to put documents in any number of virtual folders. They can also establish folders that will automatically update, such as "files edited in the last week" or "documents from Jane."
Isn't that killer feature a part of WinFS, which already has been cut from the release? Kinda makes you wonder what other cool features that you won't get. Why not just throw in a pony...
Parental controls?
Does anyone remember when an operating system was meant to run applications, not provide the same functionality as them all?
reducing the number of times computers will have to be rebooted
Lets say that the number of times that a windows machine has to be rebooted in a month is represented by N, and the number of reboots eliminated is M. If N is large enough (or M is sufficiently small), N-M is approximately equal to N. And since with a combination of forced updates combined with the awesome staying power of Windows N is rather large, you can have M equal to just about anything and the downtime for a Windows machine will stay about the same while still reducing the number of reboots.
Oh, a lesson in history from Mr. I'm my own grandpa.
You know, I don't know of a single person, outside of myself, that has ever paid for Windows...
Problems are like gifts, it's better to give than to receive
find ~ -type f -mtime -7 -exec ln -s {} ~/DocumentsEditedLastWeek/\`basename {}\` \;
(or words to that effect)
OK.... what's next?
wearing sun glasses and a dark, long leather coat.
As it gets close to a Windows Longhorn screen, it draws a bazooka, aims at the screen and just says:
"Hasta la vista, baby".
Is the feature that does "tiny representations of a document itself" similar to what Virtual PC shows in the Console, for running virtual machines?
Vista will be Windows XP with a skin...........which was windows 2000 with a skin. Right?
Seriously, does anyone see anything NEW among those "new features"?
Oh right, it's gonna require a p4-4.0ghz and 2gb RAM to run slowly with constant hard drive grinding.
I'll keep my Suse box, thanks.
if security is the number one key feature of an M$ opperating system it's users are in trouble.
-Tim Louden
Some of us (yes even /. regulars) live in the "dark ages" and might consider anything 2.0 GHz and above to be more than merely "adequate". I'm writing this on a 900 MHz Athlon with 256Mb of RAM right now. I will not argue that it is not a modest machine these days but for me it is quite "adequate" indeed. Some people get by with even less.
I used to run Win2K on this box but my situation no longer requires me to use this boz to do projects in Visual Studio so I have no reason for Windows anymore. I have switched this machine to exclusively Linux.
In my experience I've found Linux to be LESS resource intensive than Windwos without any need for extensive optimisation. I'm running a recent version of GNOME and have all the software I need on here and it runs just a touch better than Win2K did. I find that it consumes less memory and starts up faster as well. The difference would probably be more pronounced compared to WinXP--and although you can boot up to login faster on XP than with Linux I still have to wait for many seconds until networking is up on my XP machine at the office, so the time from switch-on to checking email is about the same on my home mechine and the office machine, and the office machine is 3GHz!
Perhaps the reason there is a difference in your case is that you installed more services or a beefier distro--but I find that with most distros the default "desktop" install has fairly modest system requirements. Combining the price of windows, the hardware upgrade required and the increasingly draconian anti-piracy measures it is looking far less likely that I'll ever return to Windows in the future. Perhaps if I got into gaming, but then I could just get a console.
"There will also be visual changes, thanks to Avalon, ranging from shiny translucent windows to icons that are tiny representations of a document itself. On the business side, Microsoft said Vista will be easier for businesses to deploy on multiple PCs and will also save costs by reducing the number of times computers will have to be rebooted." ....
Hasn't KDE had icons like that for quite some time now? And when was the last time you rebooted your linux boxen?
Looks like M$ has started taking tips from Linux
>"Among the key features of Vista as it currently stands are: security enhancements, ...and better home networking. (1) There will also be visual changes, ... ranging from shiny translucent windows to icons that are tiny representations of a document itself.(2) On the business side, Microsoft said Vista will be easier for businesses to deploy on multiple PCs and will also save costs by reducing the number of times computers will have to be rebooted."(3)
Let's see now:(1) My Mandrake 10.1 home network is definitely already better than XP in security and ease of networking.
(2) Got all this with KDE and nVidia drivers right now.
(3) What is this "reboot" of which you speak? At work, the linux boxen stay on forever. The windoze machines slow to a crawl after a while if they don't crash first.
Some mornings it's hardly worth chewing through the restraints to get out of bed.
put documents in any number of virtual folders
Like a link?
folders that will automatically update
Based on desktop search obviously. A bit like the virtual folders in some email programs (Opera, Thunderbird) but applied filesystem wide (so there is something genuinely new here - but not much.
security improvements
Need I say anything?
adding a PC to a home network
Like Zeroconf/Renzevous?
icons that are tiny representations of a document itself
Konqueror and Nautilus both do this
I assume everything that is not already on my (linux) desktop is copied from the Mac.
so then mac systems can play next generation DVDs and audio discs that have AACS or not? how about linux?
seems like in order to play these formats, apple and the linux world will have to either sell their souls to the devil or refrain from participating in viewing/using next gen media.
so it clearly isn't only a "pc" issue, it is a PC (as in personal computer) issue.
it's starting to look like i'll have my final excuse to forever leave windows. i'll never put up with any form of DRM.
Science : Proprietary , Knowledge : Open Source
Just finding files does nothing to help me actually USE the files!
"There will also be visual changes"
You misspelled only.
WTF? I just noticed firefox takes up 60-90% of my CPU at any given time. IE uses 0-10% at any given time. Am I going to experience problems with my CPU with it being driven near full at most times?
Wasn't one of the arguments earlier that Windows Vista is different than just plain Vista? That the name as a whole differentiated the product from trademark infringement? Yet this entire submission calls the product Vista. It's barely been announced and already the name is Vista.
I realize, of course, that the Windows releases have always been shortened to their version as an abbreviation, e.g. 2000 or XP. But, I would argue that people would only abbreviate once the context of the discussion is known. (What version of Windows are you using? 2000.) But I started reading this submission and it took me a minute to realize this is Windows Vista.
This is probably the same argument that was brought up when Microsoft first announced "Windows".
The wave/mp3 file preview from Windows 2000. It was a heck of a timesaver.
--MaxPowerDJ
But you've already indicated how such a system would work on Windows. The installer should rename the old binary and have it marked to delete on reboot and install the new binary. If an app gets restarted, it'll pick up the new lib. If the OS gets rebooted, all the old copies will automatically be deleted on reboot when nothing has an open handle to them.
Virus Infections, Spyware, Trojans, and Adware
There's an e-Learning system out there called WebCT Vista ... been out for 2 years now. I wonder how that will affect Windows Vista.
... and all I got was this lousy blowjob!
Handle duplicate filenames.
You can have multiple files with the same basename (as you search multiple directories). You'll only have one of those in your directory of symlinks when you get done.
Oh, shut up! This vista/honglorn/whatever will be same rehash of old shit for the sake of Profit!!! and we all know it.
Preserve old classics: copy your collection onto all hard drives.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
the first time i used a solid unix.. (altough this applys to almost any free open linux today).
.. then when you've migrated your .firefoxen_XCVE32 .. you restart firefox and its the new version.. pretty, cool.
... man unix is so cool...
You can reinstall, downgrade, upgrade, crosscompile, build binary packages from the files currently insitu, all while running the packages in question.
Think running firefox 1.0.3 while you're installing 1.0.4
try this, resize a partition while you're rebuilding ld.so
These might be some nice new features, depending on one's personal or professional needs, but still - what took Microsoft so long?
I mean, Vista will probably be out in late 2006. That will be 5 years since Windows XP. Five years. For new visual effects, some new security measures, and fewer reboots? With hundreds of developers working continuosly on it, and hundreds of millions of $$ invested?
Sounds pretty inefficient, if you ask me. But then, I'm no OS developer, so what do I know. Tell me: What have they been doing? Fixing security holes in 2000/XP along the way? Implementing some new, hidden features that nobody knows about?
Honestly, I want to know.
"Oh, a lesson in not changing history from Mr I'm-my-own-Grandpa." - Dr Hubert Farnsworth
I'm truely happy to see that seemingly I'm already fine with the way my things are setup. YMWV.
security enhancements
Haven't had any virus or spyware in years. Nor has my pc ever been hacked (that I know of).
a new searching mechanism
This is nice but by itself not enough reason to switch, I usually can find back my stuff
lots of new laptop features
I only have a desktop
parental controls
I'm not a parent, grown up and vaccinated thank you. I'll check back in a few years.
and better home networking.
in other words "Samba team, are you listening?"
shiny translucent windows I'm a very boring person. Eye candy is nice but personally I always switch to zippy and functional.
icons that are tiny representations of a document itself.
Already have it.
On the business side, Microsoft said Vista will be easier for businesses to deploy on multiple PCs
One word- Xclients. Otherwise, SSH and shell scripts are your friend.
and will also save costs by reducing the number of times computers will have to be rebooted.
09:37:20 up 203 days, 18:38
Visit http://ringbreak.dnd.utwente.nl/~mrjb/growingbettersoftware to download your free copy of the book
One complaint that get levelled at open-source software is that there is no innovation. That it's all just clones of commerical software. But seriously, the big innovations in Vista are 'less reboots', 'translucent windows' (= transparent windows perhaps?) and 'icons that are tiny representations of a document itself'. Sounds familiar...
Wow! Gnome has made it onto the windows desktop?
Slashdot: where don knuth is an idiot because he cant grasp the awesome power of php
Even diehard MS fans have to be wondering what the hell is going on up in Redmond.
I'm no open source freak, but the trend seems clear that the time to migrate to Linux is here for anyone who doesn't have one or more must have apps that still only run on Windows.
It seems to me that the trend is to stick with the perfectly working version of Windows that people already have. Just as there is no special reason to get Vista, there is no special reason for people to abandon their working installation for Linux.
And I am an open source freak.
I believe posters are recognized by their sig. So I made one.
The change from Win98 to Win2K is a tremendous leap forward in stability, networkability and functionality...so it made good sense for a company to invest in new hardware that can run Win2K (I am writing this on Win2K, which is the development machine). But what new stuff of Vista is really necessary for businesses? none, from what I can tell. Even the virtual folders/search facilities (a poor attempt at organizing information) are covered by using document indexing systems for companies that really need to do so. No business will justify paying money for new hardware when the job is getting done as it should.
Is this part of some obscure plot by Micro$oft to look defenseless and pathetic, to get our deepest sympathy? I'm an almost-100% Free Software user and an almost-always Microsoft trasher, but after reading this great description of their "new product" I'm all about sending some spare Euro Cents to Redmond, in a package with some powdered milk boxes :-P
Try Ubuntu GNU/Linux, it's great!!!
Lets be honest with each other. Linux is superior to the current Windows framework in many ways. What it lacks are some pretty important things though. Consider the average user: me. I want an office suite that doesn't suck. (Yes I'm forced to use OpenOffice at work along with Thunderbird and the crap calendar plugin it has.) All these apps suck and are slow when compared to Microsoft's offerings. If Linux ran Office 2003 or had a similar solution that didn't suck, could play World of Warcraft, had half decent drivers from at least one company other than nvidia, and didn't require 50,000 libraries I don't have each time I want to install something, I'd use it and pitch Windows XP x64 right out the friggin window. Open Office needs a LOT of work, WoW isn't working on Linux boxes yet even though it does on OSX, Thunderbird has no realistic shared calendar solution and to do any REAL OS customization and driver changes requires recompiles, kernel mods, and all sorts of other crap most people don't have time for.
Am I the only one that uses FAT exactly because it is old and documented, therefore compatible with many other OSes?
MS shoud just give the specs to NTFS and FAT will surely die in 1 month!!
(On topic: and the rename of files in use would not be a problem anymore)
gtkaml.org
"security enhancements" We wish. We really, really wish! But every other system left MS behind on this point a decade ago.
"a new searching mechanism" you mean like "grep" or "locate" like Linux has had for years? Or locking in the desktop to MSN search?
"lots of new laptop features" we really hope that doesn't mean it'll run as a live CD on a laptop like Knoppix or anything. That would be too weird.
"parental controls" You mean like a root/admin account like Unix had 50 years ago?
"better home networking" Hopefully, it will now recognize an ethernet board when I plug it in. Like Linux has for years.
"shiny translucent windows" Anybody seen a screenshot of Fluxbox window manager for Linux, lately? Hey, can you do the menus and tabs and taskbar translucent while you're at it?
"icons that are a tiny representation of a document itself" - gasp! Astounding! What a stroke of genius! They're called "thumbnails", Billy, and Gnome and KDE have had that going since the turn of the century.
When, oh when, are we of the Open-Source community going to get the money and the brains at the same time to hire a pack of lawyers and sue this asshole for ripping off our hard work?
At the last count, they were planning something like 3 levels of graphical funkiness, depending on your hardware. It was something like 64+MB AGP4x cards, 32MB cards, and lowest common denominator (i.e., Win2K clone). There's probably something about it if you can face clicking through the five billion links in TFA.
If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
"security enhancements" .. that should be good news !
Chris ,
Php Programmers.
Windows Vista (if it comes out on schedule and isn't delayed again) will conntain exciting new features like windows transparencies (available on KDE for a few years now) and icons that are like small snapshots of the files contents (available on KDE and Gnome for more than a few years now). And behold, IE7 will feature tabbed browsing (available on Mozilla/Firefox/Opera for so long I can't even remember).
Sorry guys. I don't seen the need to upgrade my WindowXP box, nor do I see a need to stop advocating KDE or Gnome running on Linux.
Don't know how to put images inline here, but here is a good view of the Microsoft Vista
The future is in beta
Comment removed based on user account deletion
"Microsoft's Allchin has said that getting Vista out on time is more of a priority than including every last feature."
So meeting the release date is more important than the content and performance of the software itself? Well, we all knew that this was Microsoft's attitude anyway, but I'm surprised to see them admit it.
"If you think the problem is bad now, just wait until we've solved it." --- Arthur Kasspe
security enhancements = you can only run software that we say you can run -
security by obscurity just can't get any better than that. sounds like something an American corporation would do. Oh nevermind.
also isn't "They can also establish folders that will automatically update, such as "files edited in the last week" or "documents from Jane."" just another name for creating a folder called "files edited in the last week" and "documents from Jane"?
I can't wait it all sounds so innovating. They are just geniuses in Redmond.
This reminds me of the saying that goes "You can't have a monopoly if no one buys your shit" I'm sure at some stage in the distant past microsoft used to have innnovative products, but it seems those days are past
Missed a dose or two, eh ?
The MS-branded Destop Search application will be officially called "Cruiser". So look forward to someday telling someone, "Yeah, I can find that spreadsheet for you.. Let me check my Vista Cruiser" Cruiser will have the same lack of speed and versatility as it's namesake, with it's lack of advanced search features and a CPU-crippling search routine. So, hop in and drag ass to your files with the new Windows Vista Cruiser!
- LoserMLW
--
"Common sense is not so common." - Voltaire
"There will also be visual changes, thanks to Avalon, ranging from shiny translucent windows to icons that are tiny representations of a document itself."
Sorry, you mean like every other OS on the market right now has?
Where do I reserve my copy!!
That said, they've invested hundreds of millions of dollars addressing these issues. No, they haven't arrived where they need to be yet but they're getting awfully close. Remember, M$ started on a shoestring back in the days of the 8088. Back then, Mr. Gates had to move pretty fast and be pretty quick with what people wanted; there was a veritable world of people providing cobbled-together solutions for the IBM PC (was there ever going to be any other kind of PC on the market?).
Okay, so the enhanced stability of the NT kernel comes from code that may have come from a *NIX kernel. Who cares where it came from, as long as it works and won't get me sued? Yet there's the triumphant hue and cry from *NIX zealots that this is the only way M$ could make it work. Now, M$ wants to improve their platform by adding features other (open source) products already have. Are they to be criticized for this?
Lemme get this straight -- just because Ford was first to use an assembly line to manufacture inexpensive automobiles, no other manufacturer should emulate that successful example because it's no longer a radical new idea? C'mon people, I may not particularly care for Winduhs (it's fine for desktops, but keep it outta my server farm!), but dogging them for not being the first to have and implement some good ideas? Am I to understand that everybody would rather Windows was still at 3.1, and WFW at 3.11?
Then again, given his net worth I'm sure Mr. Gates will survive public excorciation for not producing the ultimate OS.
Or is it going to be like Tiger was to Panther?
I thought that Tiger was just going to be some simple little enhancements, but they actually changed and added a whole lot of things.
our written thoughts are gifts to our future selves
Anyone else think "parental controls" is just the spin phrase for "digital rights management"?
If you can lock your kids out of certain content, the same mechanism can lock you out, right?
"This quote is a product of the Frobozz Magic Quote Company."
ahh another person filled with alot of Bullshit, hey if you put this much effot into trying to cuss me down for using an OS that i have used very sucsessfully in the home and 2 buisness with, into somethign worth while you could go a long way.
You are an idiot.
Me and my friends who know about this new name of Microsoft Windows XP: Service Pack 3 have already started calling it Windows Pista, after the green coloured nut, Pistachio. The name represents the color that your face turns into when you try to browse slashdot while munching on some snacks and hundreds of windows containing goatse start popping up...
My last sig was ridiculed
There will also be visual changes, thanks to Avalon, ranging from shiny translucent windows to icons that are tiny representations of a document itself.
Nice of them to get with the program.
It's because there's no output.
if(!toilet_paper) roll.replace(new roll);
So, what I understand from the above quote, is that it will be basically the some thing with a few new small features, but requiring a computer with a lot more memory and a lot more power to run.
Actually, I'd move to Vista just for interface prettiness alone. Stardock gives all kinds of interface prettiness, but costs too much. If Vista is making it easier to install new interface upgrades in this graphics change, then there will probably be free programs to give me those upgrades and I won't have to pay for Stardock.
/MINE/ is perfectly legitimate.)
Or are there already Stardock-like programs for free on Windows?
But I'm not going to trade away functionality that I already have. Does that monitor DRM thing just flat-out ban anything using a "suspicious" codec, or is it just preventing people from ripping material? I don't rip anything so I don't mind, I just want to play it. (Obligatory and probably false disclaimer: I don't download pirated material, I have legally purchased versions of it all, granting me the right to use it.)
Similarly, though Linux sounds great, I can't trade away the mass-compatibility offered by MS's monopoly. When developers choose to release their products and patches with full Linux compatibility, I'll gladly dump Windows and never look back.
Basically, even if Vista is just a prettier version of XP I would switch just because I don't want to buy stardock. (More disclaimer: Though I'm too cheap to buy Stardock, of course I wouldn't mind legally purchasing my version of Vista. Just like everyone else here, all my friends are using illegal copies of windows, but of course
There is nothing inherent in FAT that prohibits this. Once a program opens a file, it has a file handle. That handle can point equally well to the old file under a new name (C:\windows\oldlibs\foo.1.3.24.dll) until the app closes it. If you do it right, you can even have a mechanism to sleep until all handles on a file have been released. It just requires someone to decide that it's worth doing.
[100% ISO 646 Compliant]
SVM, ERGO MONSTRO.
She kids because she loves -- but seriously, Mary Jo Foley has usually been one of the best sources for MS info (though not a cheerleader for MS). For example, she has a good overview of what's what in Vista and IE 7.0.
There's an old saying that says pretty much whatever you want it to.
...wake me when they put in something that I haven't already been able to do for 5 or 10 years.
Love your country always, but respect your government only when it deserves it. -- Mark Twain
Hey look, its a new theme for XP... oh wait, it just windows vista :(
<overrated>Insert Sig Here</overrated>
You know, sometimes, when a program is taking more than it's fair share of resources, the system is so bogged down that the system can't even bring up the task manager thing (What happened to the old style stop-the-system-on-3-finger-salute to bring up the process dialog anyways? I rarely care how much CPU is being used when I want to close a process.)
x86, oh yes, I'm pro.
Well I own 12 computers and will be updating them all to the newer version of windows. I am glad to hear that microsoft has made many improvments to there next version but I already know within 6 months I will have to download a critcal update otherwise my system will be vunerable to hackers lol. And I am O.K. with that somewhat but I truely it never becomes a tool for microsoft to spy on my computer. As I read in news a couple days back microsoft is watching people that download critcal updates now and going after them if they dubb it a pirated version.Then I also imagine a knock on the door by F.B.I since were talking multiple felonies and also a civil suit filed probalby in washington state but my question is what ese can microsoft look at and tell that is on your computer and also what else woudl they be willing to share with law enforcement r attorneys
You don't have to reboot to change your IP in Windows 98. All you have to do is go to Control Panel --> Network, set your new TCP/IP values and then go to System --> Device Manager --> Disable your NIC --> Enable your NIC --> Your done. I assume this works in '95, but I don't think I have tried it. I was too busy playing FreeBSD - pretty much missed '95 all together.
You create your own reality - Leave mine to me.
You know why it has taken so long right? Gates had to wait for Apple to innovate before he could rip it off. **Ducks flying tomato**
Ok maybe Apple spied on Longhorn and has a faster development cycle. **Ducks many flying tomatos**
Really? Well it is because it takes a long time to invent features, realize they aren't feasible (because M$ can't build revolutionary stuff in house), and abandon them.
On Firefox: Going here both FF and IE crashes - the difference being with IE the window crashes (alright, and the whole app is restarted if I click away the always-on-top error-pop-up message) - on FF every window crashes. Yeah I've fucked up my codecs, and I do remember another codec-related crash IE crashed (again, only the current window though) and FF just gave me "there has been an error, and you are adviced to restart FF" and the tab didn't even crash.
On MSOffice - the last I bought was '97, I just copy the ~50mb zipped folder to a new computer - gives me Excel and Word. It gives an error when starting (ironally, breaking macros) but otherwise works flawlessly. Although recently I happened to actually check the filesize of documents - a BLANK doc was 30 fucking kb, converting some doc I send often to html, reduced it from 60kb to 8kb - and shows directly in the email (only problem is printing it turns to 2,3 pages).
the sun is god
Hi, I've just setup a wiki page about Windows Vista... http://www.wvista.org/ . Feel free to edit/comment/modify, this is your place, no ads, no money, CC license... Ciao, r0main
http://www.wvista.org