Re:Jesus didn't walk on the water
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Unfortunately it's most of the time interpreted as justification for crusades and death penalty
Read the book of Numbers in the Old Testament. It'll describe to you when the death penalty is justified.
Re:Most violent game... ever!
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Game with God
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There is one biblical prophecy that I'd like you to educate me on, though. To my mind, it's the single biggest, most obvious prophecy of the bible: Jesus' statements that the world would end within a generation. They're repeated in every gospel, but for reference, see Mark 9:1 and 13:30.
Easy.
Jesus' statement in Mark 9:1 (NIV) reads, "And he said to them, 'I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God come with power.'"
If you keep reading through verse nine, you'll see that Jesus and the apostles were enveloped in a cloud on a mountain where Moses and Elijah appeared and God spoke to them to say that Jesus was His son and that they were to listen to him. Jesus was transfigured and his clothes became dazzling white.
So there's the power of the kingdom of God witnessed by some of those with Jesus in verse one.
Mark 13:30 (actually, let's back up to verse 28 so we can get the context right) reads, "Now learn this lesson from the fig tree. As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that is is near, right at the door. I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened."
At the beginning of Mark chapter 13, Jesus tells his apostles of what to look for when the end of the world is nigh. Earthquakes in diverse places, wars and rumors of wars, children rebelling against parents, famines, etc., etc. So when Jesus says, "this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened," He is referring to the generation that sees all of the signs he mentioned to the apostles near the beginning of the chapter.
One side note that may or may not interest you. Mark 13:28 talks about the fig tree. The fig tree is used in the Bible to refer to Israel. For nearly 2000 years prior to 1948, Israel was a desolate place, nearly uninhabitable and certainly not fertile. That has all changed with the use of irrigation and the return of the Jews to the state (as well as its declaration as a sovereign nation). Some scholars have made the statement that the generation that sees Israel return as a nation (the fig tree's leaves coming out) will be the generation to witness the end of the world.
IMHO, we are living in the last of the last days. When the rapture happens, start reading Daniel and Revelation. It'll tell you the future. Better yet, read it now. Please before it's too late.
Re:uh,, Black and White anyone?
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Saying that the Bible is the only truth out there is bigoted, and anyone who does say so needs to realise that they do not and cannot know everything.
Call it what you want, but I'm here to tell you that there's only one God and there's only one way to heaven.
I'm curious about this 40,000 places in heaven thing. I've read up on the JW's before and never read that. I've also read good portions of the Bible and never ran across the 40,000 places in heaven part. I, being a fundamentalist, believe in a literal Bible and I cannot imagine the Bible says anything about only 40,000 places in heaven. Now I do know that in the end times there will be 144,000 Messianic Jews sealed with the mark of God and will be protected as they will be witnesses to the world of their faith.
Re:Most violent game... ever!
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Game with God
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It's hypocritical because god's actions in the bible are so completely immoral. Repeated genocide, killing children because of their parents' sins, killing children for minor transgressions, killing children just to demonstrate his power, insane laws that allow slavery, punish women who are raped, etc. Not to mention the whole concept of creating a life-form and commanding that it worship you (without providing any real evidence that you exist, I might add), then punishing it infinitely if it does not.
If you'll cite me some examples I'll be more than happy to discuss. Remember, God spoke to Adam and Eve, to Noah, to Abraham, and all of the fulfilled prophecies in the Bible are 100% accurate. How much more evidence is required?
Let me give you an example of some up-and-coming prophetically important news items. The book of Revelation says that the coming Antichrist will force all to take the mark on his right hand or forehead or die. Without the mark no one will be able to buy or sell. With the advances in technology, nothing is left to realize (technologically speaking) for this to happen. The Bible says that the East gate in Jerusalem will remain sealed until the return of Christ. Indeed, this gate remains sealed to this day.
The Bible says that the Jews would return to their homeland and repopulate it. There were about 600,000 Jews in Israel in 1948 when it once again became a state. There are now about 6,000,000 Jews living there.
The Bible says that Israel would once again become a nation in one day. On May 14, 1948, the Jews declared their independence and on the very same day the UN mandate giving the British control over the state expired and Israel has been a nation ever since.
The Bible says that Israel would flourish and that trees would grow there. Israel has been a barren, unproductive land for nearly 2000 years. Through the use of irrigation systems over the past century, over 2000 million trees have been planted in Israel.
I could go on and on, but you get my point I hope.
Re:uh,, Black and White anyone?
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Some denominations of Christianity believe that Christ is *not* the only way, but that he is actually one, a good one, and perhaps the best - bot not the only.
Which ones? I wouldn't use the word "denominations" but rather "demonizations" or the more popular word "cult".
If we're going on exactly what the Bible says, then almost no Christian is actually a Christian.
Really? The Old Testament is Jewish law and the New Testament is the new law - so point something out to me in the New Testament that points out that almost no Christian is actually a Christian? Last time I checked all you had to be a Christian was believe that (1) only through the blood of Christ can you be saved (2) that Jesus died for your sins and (3) He [Jesue] was resurrected and lives today. Remember, all who call upon the Lord shall be saved.
Re:Most violent game... ever!
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Skepticsannotatedbible might be over the top in a few places, but no amount of wriggling can change the fact that the bible is full of ridiculous statements, obvious contradictions, and chilling atrocities. What little it science it includes is almost invariably wrong, and its moral teachings are corrupt.
Please give me one of these contradictions. I'm somewhat of a Bible scholar and I'd like to point out why it's not a contradiction.
All it means is that people who quote the bible as a source of morality are hypocrites, and the bible is worthless as anything but an interesting fiction.
Why am I a hypocrit for quoting the Bible as a source of morality? What's hypocrital about it?
Unfortunately, once you take away the bible as a source of authority, there is simply no evidence for god. None whatsoever. And I don't typically believe in outlandish theories with zero backing evidence.
Most everything you see was created by God. The evidence is everywhere and overwhelming.
You can believe in god if you want; I couldn't care less. What pisses me off is that because of those beliefs, children are being deprived of a proper education in evolution. Because of those beliefs, gays can't enjoy the same civil liberties as the rest of us. Because of those beliefs, embryonic stem cells that might help find cures for terrible diseases are being wasted. Because of those beliefs, people stop questioning the nature of the universe, and accept the vacuous answer that "god did it". Because of those beliefs, my child will have to stand up in school and pledge allegiance to an invisible man. Not to mention the violence that erupts when fanatics take religion to extremes.
See, I know evolution to be a lie and God-willing if I can afford it when my child reaches school age, he/she will attend a private Christian school.
Gays have exactly the same civil liberties as everyone else. Heterosexuals can't marry members of the same sex, so why should gays be able to do it? A marriage is between a man and a woman, not a man and a man or vice-versa. If it is so natural, why can't they procreate?
I have no problem with stem cell research as long as the cells not come from aborted embryos. Why is it that liberal America is against capital punishment but for abortion? John Kerry recently said he was pro-abortion but believed that life begins at conception. Doesn't that make him pro-murder?
My child will have to sit in school and hear the abomination that is homosexuality is normal.
I'm enjoying the debate!:)
Re:Most violent game... ever!
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p.s. If you doubt the accuracy of anything I've said, I encourage you wholeheartedly to read the bible yourself. You'll see that the points above are but a tiny sampling of the atrocities the bible has to offer. I just discovered that some enterprising folks have even distilled a lot of the horrors (as well as the ridiculous "science" and many contradictions) of the bible for you: http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com
I'm in contact with the guy that runs that site. I'm working through the Bible and rebuking his list of contradictions in the Bible. I'd stay away from using that site as a reference - too much misinformation / not all facts are given.
Re:uh,, Black and White anyone?
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What "getting to the top of the hill" is like is how you live your life - as long as you live your life well, you'll be alright.
So how well do you have to life your life to get to the top of the hill? How many religious laws can you break and still make it to the top? The road to Hell is paved with good intentions.
Re:uh,, Black and White anyone?
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Game with God
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(and it's myriad strange side religions like Mormons and Jehovahs Witnesses)
Those are cults, not side religions of the Christian faith. They are sown in the roots of Satan, much like Islam or Buddism, that give people the appearance of belonging to some holy organization when, in fact, none of them are Biblically-based. Even the Bible says that Satan can appear as an angel of light.
Re:uh,, Black and White anyone?
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That said, nowadays large bits of Christianity, and Hinduism apparently, accept that actually there is no one true way and that many religions are just different ways of getting to the same goal. This is quite different to the historical interpretation of "repent or burn (either at the stake or in hell)"
Any Christian that believes the Bible (and is truly born-again) will never tell you this. It's a lie. The Bible says that Jesus is the way, the truth and the light and that no one comes to the Father except through the Son. Sounds to me like some people who are "Christians" by default because they are white Americans could use a lesson in being less politically-correct.
I fail to see how this is moderated "funny". It's the truth. Just today on Drudge there's an article on chipping school kids because it's the best way to keep track of them. It's more than an odd coincidence to me.
I am a recent convert to Linux (for any appreciable amount of time - having played around with it since RH 6.2).
I dunped MS because I was tired of having things break and tired of all the patching and tired of all the bloat. I saw a guy at my computer user's group meeting that had Mandrake installed so that's what I did. I have a laptop with built-in wireless, so this hasn't been the easiest thing to configure, either.
But back to my point: I know Linux is great, but typical users aren't going to use it (just like Firefox, unfortunately) until it's preinstalled on some box and gets some name recognition.
Usually because some Isreallis started bulldozing their homes, or their refugee camp (i.e. the places they are living because their homes were already bulldozed.) Which might have been bulldozed in the first place because of some suicide bomber who became a suicide bomber because of something the Isreali's did and so on and so forth.
Next time you see Israel agree to some peace accord, watch who strikes first. 10-to-1 it's the PLO, Hamas or an Islamic terrorist - over all of whom Arafat has some control. There will never be real peace in Israel.
There's this book I'm reading that says the Israelis were there first and were dispersed from their land by the Romans in 70AD. Of course this same book says that Israel would again become a nation and Jews from around the world would return there, exactly like what's happened over the last 60 years or so.
Right, because telling Sharon to stop butchering Palestinians is anti-semetic.
Here's how it's being played out: the Israelis want peace. They are willing to give up land for peace, which is most of what the Palestinians want (their own state is their ultimate goal). However, just as soon as Israel is willing to give up all this land, some Palestinian suicide bomber kills an Israeli.
Seems if the Palestinians were serious about peace they'd actually work with Israel, not against it.
Sad thing is you sound just like the right wing nutcases that cry anti-semitism at every opportunity
Much like the liberal left that call in the ACLU to cry racial, gender or religious discrimination - except when it's the Jews or the Christians being discriminated against (with very rare exception, of course).
All Bible references are from the King James Version
unless otherwise noted.
Q: Was Abraham justified by faith or works?
A: Romans 4:2 (NIV) reads, If, in fact, Abraham was justified
by works, he had something to boast about - but not before God.
However, James 2:21 (NIV) reads, Was not our ancestor Abraham
considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on
the altar?
Abraham is first mentioned in the Book of Genesis as Abram, husband of
Sarai, later known as Sarah. God makes a covenant with Abram in
Genesis 17:1-5: And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the
Lord appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk
before me, and be thou perfect. And I will make my covenant
between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly, And Abram fell
on his face: and God talked with him, saying, As for me, behold,
my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many
nations. Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy
name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made
thee. Genesis 17:19 continues, And God said, Sarah thy wife
shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac:
and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant,
and with his seed after him.
Abraham was 100 years old before he and his wife were blessed with
their first son, Isaac (Abraham had a son with Sarai's handmaid
previously but Isaac was the first son between Abraham and
Sarah.). The Lord spoke with Abram when he was 99 years old and
told him that he would be a father of many nations as is evidenced in
Genesis 17:1-6. The Bible doesn't directly tell us how old Sarah
was when she gave birth to Isaac, although Genesis 17:17 reads, Then
Abraham fell upon his face, and laughed, and said in his heart, Shall a
child be born unto him that is an hundred years old? and shall
Sarah, that is ninety years old, bear?
Genesis 21:1-2 tells us that Sarah gave birth to a son: And
the Lord visited Sarah as he had said, and the Lord did unto Sarah as he
had spoken. For Sarah conceived, and bare Abraham a son in his old
age, at the set time of which God had spoken to him.
So was Abraham justified by works or by faith? It was by faith
because all Abraham did was believe in the Lord. And the Lord
justified Abraham by delivering a son as promised.
When was Abraham justified by works as mentioned in James 2:21,
then?
Genesis 22:2 tells us that Abraham was instructed by God to offer
his son, Isaac, as a burnt offering in the land of Moriah: And
he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and
get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt
offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.
Genesis 22:9-13 tells of Abraham's faith: And they came to
the place which God had told him of; and Abraham built an altar there,
and laid the wood in order, and bound Isaac his son, and laid him on the
altar upon the wood. And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and
took the knife to slay his son. And the angel of the Lord called
unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said,
Here am I. And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither
do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God,
seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me. And
Abraham lifted up his eyes, and
Well, I started with the first one and am going to work my way down the list.
The author of the list has an apparent typo; he asks the question were there 10, 11 or 12 apostles, but the quote he uses to show 10 apostles actually reads 12 and not 10, so I wrote a commentary based on the differences between the 11 and 12 apostles of Christ.
Q: Did Jesus appear to eleven or twelve apostles after his resurrection?
A: Matthew chapter 28, verse 16 reads, Then the eleven
disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus has
appointed them.
Mark chapter 16, verse 14 reads, Afterward he appeared unto the
eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and
hardness of heart,because they believed not them which had seen him
after he was risen.
Luke chapter 24, verse 33 reads, And they rose up the same hour, and
returned to Jerusalem, and found the eleven gathered together, and them
that were with them,
1 Corinthians chapter 15, verse 5 reads, And that he was seen of
Cephas, then of the twelve.
So which is it? Were there eleven apostles of Christ or
twelve? Let's start in Matthew, chapter 10 to get the names of
each apostle.
Matthew chapter 10:1-4 reads, And when he had called unto him his
twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast
them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of
disease. Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The
first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew, his brother; James the
son of Zebedee, and John his brother; Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas,
and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose
surname was Thaddaeus; Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also
betrayed him.
So to sum up, here are the twelve disciples:
Simon (Peter)
Andrew
James (son of Zebedee)
John (brother of James, son of Zebedee)
Philip
Bartholomew
Thomas
Matthew
James (son of Alphaeus)
Lebbaeus
Simon the Canaanite
Judas Iscariot
So we understand that there were originally twelve disciples. Why
does the Bible refer to the group mostly as the twelve but
sometimes as the eleven? Let's start with verse 16
from Matthew, chapter 28.
The scene from Matthew, chapter 28 is the literal resurrection of
Christ. The Bible tells us in verse 2 that there was a great
earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and
came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it.
Clearly then, verse 16 has happened after the resurrection of
Jesus Christ. So why only 11 disciples? The answer lies in
Matthew, chapter 27:1-5: When the morning was come, all the
chief priests and elders of the people took counsel against Jesus to put
him to death: And when they had bound him, they led him away, and
delivered him to Pontius Pilate the governor. then Judas, which
had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself,
and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and
elders, Saying, I have sinned in that I have betrayed the innocent
blood. And they said, What is that to us? see thou to
that. And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and
departed, and went and hanged himself.
Judas committed suicide, leaving only 11 literal disciples. Much
in the same way as some older bands go on tour decades after their
Excellent. I'll dig out my concordance, commentary, dictionary and several versions of the Bible and do some of these for you. Are there any in particular that interest you?
Huh??. which is it 2 of everything or 7 of some and 2 of the rest.
Genesis 7:2 reads "Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female."
Genesis 7:8-9 reads, "Of clean beasts, and of beasts that are not clean, and of fowls, and of every thing that creepeth upon the earth,There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah."
It was two of every unclean and seven of every clean. Gen. 7:2 says that clearly. In Gen. 7:8-9, it is stating the way the beasts boarded the ark - in pairs - two at a time. It isn't talking about the number of each type of animal.
If the bible is inerrant than Gen 7:8-9 must be a misprint in my copies.
So your Bible doesn't have a misprint.:) Ask God to open your heart to understanding the Bible. He will if you mean it.
If the former, then the "clean" species were extincted when Noah offered on his newly built altar: (Gen 8:20). So I guess the two of everything _must_ be true since _clean_ beasts appear after the flood.
Gen. 8:20 reads, "And Noah builded an altar unto the LORD; and took of every clean beast, and of every clean fowl, and offered burnt offerings on the altar."
So Noah used CLEAN animals (there were seven of those taken aboard) and made an offering. So no species were forced into extinction because Noah made a sacrifice on the altar. There were some people who got in trouble in the Bible for using unclean animals for sacrifices.
Oops, Excuse me for using logic to question this. I'm averse to using fantasy and superstition when I try to think logically.
No problem. I don't believe in superstition anyway.
All through your life, I Me Mine, I Me Mine, I Me Mine. -- John Lennon
Beatles fan? Me too! My favorite band! You quoted a George Harrison song, though, not a Lennon one. Might want to update your sig.
I take exception to that statement. The Bible states that two of every living thing and seven of every clean beast and two of every unclean beast were taken aboard. Most people just think it was two of everything.
Even the most die hard christian fundamentalists would have a job believing so much patent bullcrap. Please, if you want to be christian then at least be one of the ones that whines "well, you ren't supposed to take it all litterally" every time you are challenged.
I am a die-hard Christian fundamentalist. I believe the Bible to be inerrant and I take the Bible very literally. If you read it you can see when the writer is speaking figuratively or literally. So I won't whine about not taking it literally if you challenge me.:)
thousands of years before the enlightenment.
The who?
Noah was able to identify the sexes of hundreds of different species, and even identify those that reproduced asexually
Noah didn't. God did.
Putting this into context, god commanded the Ark to be 300 cubits in length, which is roughly 140 metres, whereas at the battle of Trafalgar Nelson's flagship was about 65 metres in length.
Amazing, isn't it? Of course, there's always been God around that created the heavens and the earth. He did that before ANYONE even thought about building anything.
You seriously believe that thousands of years before the industrial revolution, god commanded Noah and his nearest and dearest to build a boat entirely of wood, that would be larger than any later wooden battleships.
He had 120 years to build it. Remember that God told Noah that man's days were numbered to 120. Noah was the only person found righteous in the eyes of the Lord so he and his family were told to build the ark.
Yes, nakedness was wrong AFTER she ate from the tree . The tree only made her realize that she was naked and she was ashamed. Why would God create Adam and Eve naked if it was wrong? Only Satan makes the wrongs of the world. The tree was of the knowledge of good and evil, allowing both of them to discern the difference between the two. But even Eve said that if she ate from the tree she would surely die - how could she NOT know that it was wrong to eat from the tree? Why would God give them a choice to sin if they weren't able to discern the difference between right and wrong? And *I* go by heretical, anti-Christian doctrine?
I have read the bible; Adam and Eve gained that knowledge by eating of the Tree of Knowledge.
I assumed you hadn't read it because you said He designed people to not know the difference from right and wrong. That is an incorrect statement. Adam and Eve were perfect in every way until they ate from the tree. They also understood that it was wrong to eat from the tree.
I suppose we're just going to have to agree to disagree.
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Unfortunately it's most of the time interpreted as justification for crusades and death penalty
Read the book of Numbers in the Old Testament. It'll describe to you when the death penalty is justified.
There is one biblical prophecy that I'd like you to educate me on, though. To my mind, it's the single biggest, most obvious prophecy of the bible: Jesus' statements that the world would end within a generation. They're repeated in every gospel, but for reference, see Mark 9:1 and 13:30.
Easy.
Jesus' statement in Mark 9:1 (NIV) reads, "And he said to them, 'I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God come with power.'"
If you keep reading through verse nine, you'll see that Jesus and the apostles were enveloped in a cloud on a mountain where Moses and Elijah appeared and God spoke to them to say that Jesus was His son and that they were to listen to him. Jesus was transfigured and his clothes became dazzling white.
So there's the power of the kingdom of God witnessed by some of those with Jesus in verse one.
Mark 13:30 (actually, let's back up to verse 28 so we can get the context right) reads, "Now learn this lesson from the fig tree. As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that is is near, right at the door. I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened."
At the beginning of Mark chapter 13, Jesus tells his apostles of what to look for when the end of the world is nigh. Earthquakes in diverse places, wars and rumors of wars, children rebelling against parents, famines, etc., etc. So when Jesus says, "this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened," He is referring to the generation that sees all of the signs he mentioned to the apostles near the beginning of the chapter.
One side note that may or may not interest you. Mark 13:28 talks about the fig tree. The fig tree is used in the Bible to refer to Israel. For nearly 2000 years prior to 1948, Israel was a desolate place, nearly uninhabitable and certainly not fertile. That has all changed with the use of irrigation and the return of the Jews to the state (as well as its declaration as a sovereign nation). Some scholars have made the statement that the generation that sees Israel return as a nation (the fig tree's leaves coming out) will be the generation to witness the end of the world.
IMHO, we are living in the last of the last days. When the rapture happens, start reading Daniel and Revelation. It'll tell you the future. Better yet, read it now. Please before it's too late.
Saying that the Bible is the only truth out there is bigoted, and anyone who does say so needs to realise that they do not and cannot know everything.
Call it what you want, but I'm here to tell you that there's only one God and there's only one way to heaven.
I'm curious about this 40,000 places in heaven thing. I've read up on the JW's before and never read that. I've also read good portions of the Bible and never ran across the 40,000 places in heaven part. I, being a fundamentalist, believe in a literal Bible and I cannot imagine the Bible says anything about only 40,000 places in heaven. Now I do know that in the end times there will be 144,000 Messianic Jews sealed with the mark of God and will be protected as they will be witnesses to the world of their faith.
It's hypocritical because god's actions in the bible are so completely immoral. Repeated genocide, killing children because of their parents' sins, killing children for minor transgressions, killing children just to demonstrate his power, insane laws that allow slavery, punish women who are raped, etc. Not to mention the whole concept of creating a life-form and commanding that it worship you (without providing any real evidence that you exist, I might add), then punishing it infinitely if it does not.
If you'll cite me some examples I'll be more than happy to discuss. Remember, God spoke to Adam and Eve, to Noah, to Abraham, and all of the fulfilled prophecies in the Bible are 100% accurate. How much more evidence is required?
Let me give you an example of some up-and-coming prophetically important news items. The book of Revelation says that the coming Antichrist will force all to take the mark on his right hand or forehead or die. Without the mark no one will be able to buy or sell. With the advances in technology, nothing is left to realize (technologically speaking) for this to happen. The Bible says that the East gate in Jerusalem will remain sealed until the return of Christ. Indeed, this gate remains sealed to this day.
The Bible says that the Jews would return to their homeland and repopulate it. There were about 600,000 Jews in Israel in 1948 when it once again became a state. There are now about 6,000,000 Jews living there.
The Bible says that Israel would once again become a nation in one day. On May 14, 1948, the Jews declared their independence and on the very same day the UN mandate giving the British control over the state expired and Israel has been a nation ever since.
The Bible says that Israel would flourish and that trees would grow there. Israel has been a barren, unproductive land for nearly 2000 years. Through the use of irrigation systems over the past century, over 2000 million trees have been planted in Israel.
I could go on and on, but you get my point I hope.
Some denominations of Christianity believe that Christ is *not* the only way, but that he is actually one, a good one, and perhaps the best - bot not the only.
Which ones? I wouldn't use the word "denominations" but rather "demonizations" or the more popular word "cult".
If we're going on exactly what the Bible says, then almost no Christian is actually a Christian.
Really? The Old Testament is Jewish law and the New Testament is the new law - so point something out to me in the New Testament that points out that almost no Christian is actually a Christian? Last time I checked all you had to be a Christian was believe that (1) only through the blood of Christ can you be saved (2) that Jesus died for your sins and (3) He [Jesue] was resurrected and lives today. Remember, all who call upon the Lord shall be saved.
Skepticsannotatedbible might be over the top in a few places, but no amount of wriggling can change the fact that the bible is full of ridiculous statements, obvious contradictions, and chilling atrocities. What little it science it includes is almost invariably wrong, and its moral teachings are corrupt.
:)
Please give me one of these contradictions. I'm somewhat of a Bible scholar and I'd like to point out why it's not a contradiction.
All it means is that people who quote the bible as a source of morality are hypocrites, and the bible is worthless as anything but an interesting fiction.
Why am I a hypocrit for quoting the Bible as a source of morality? What's hypocrital about it?
Unfortunately, once you take away the bible as a source of authority, there is simply no evidence for god. None whatsoever. And I don't typically believe in outlandish theories with zero backing evidence.
Most everything you see was created by God. The evidence is everywhere and overwhelming.
You can believe in god if you want; I couldn't care less. What pisses me off is that because of those beliefs, children are being deprived of a proper education in evolution. Because of those beliefs, gays can't enjoy the same civil liberties as the rest of us. Because of those beliefs, embryonic stem cells that might help find cures for terrible diseases are being wasted. Because of those beliefs, people stop questioning the nature of the universe, and accept the vacuous answer that "god did it". Because of those beliefs, my child will have to stand up in school and pledge allegiance to an invisible man. Not to mention the violence that erupts when fanatics take religion to extremes.
See, I know evolution to be a lie and God-willing if I can afford it when my child reaches school age, he/she will attend a private Christian school.
Gays have exactly the same civil liberties as everyone else. Heterosexuals can't marry members of the same sex, so why should gays be able to do it? A marriage is between a man and a woman, not a man and a man or vice-versa. If it is so natural, why can't they procreate?
I have no problem with stem cell research as long as the cells not come from aborted embryos. Why is it that liberal America is against capital punishment but for abortion? John Kerry recently said he was pro-abortion but believed that life begins at conception. Doesn't that make him pro-murder?
My child will have to sit in school and hear the abomination that is homosexuality is normal.
I'm enjoying the debate!
p.s. If you doubt the accuracy of anything I've said, I encourage you wholeheartedly to read the bible yourself. You'll see that the points above are but a tiny sampling of the atrocities the bible has to offer. I just discovered that some enterprising folks have even distilled a lot of the horrors (as well as the ridiculous "science" and many contradictions) of the bible for you: http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com
I'm in contact with the guy that runs that site. I'm working through the Bible and rebuking his list of contradictions in the Bible. I'd stay away from using that site as a reference - too much misinformation / not all facts are given.
What "getting to the top of the hill" is like is how you live your life - as long as you live your life well, you'll be alright.
So how well do you have to life your life to get to the top of the hill? How many religious laws can you break and still make it to the top? The road to Hell is paved with good intentions.
(and it's myriad strange side religions like Mormons and Jehovahs Witnesses)
Those are cults, not side religions of the Christian faith. They are sown in the roots of Satan, much like Islam or Buddism, that give people the appearance of belonging to some holy organization when, in fact, none of them are Biblically-based. Even the Bible says that Satan can appear as an angel of light.
That said, nowadays large bits of Christianity, and Hinduism apparently, accept that actually there is no one true way and that many religions are just different ways of getting to the same goal. This is quite different to the historical interpretation of "repent or burn (either at the stake or in hell)"
Any Christian that believes the Bible (and is truly born-again) will never tell you this. It's a lie. The Bible says that Jesus is the way, the truth and the light and that no one comes to the Father except through the Son. Sounds to me like some people who are "Christians" by default because they are white Americans could use a lesson in being less politically-correct.
I fail to see how this is moderated "funny". It's the truth. Just today on Drudge there's an article on chipping school kids because it's the best way to keep track of them. It's more than an odd coincidence to me.
I agree.
I am a recent convert to Linux (for any appreciable amount of time - having played around with it since RH 6.2).
I dunped MS because I was tired of having things break and tired of all the patching and tired of all the bloat. I saw a guy at my computer user's group meeting that had Mandrake installed so that's what I did. I have a laptop with built-in wireless, so this hasn't been the easiest thing to configure, either.
But back to my point: I know Linux is great, but typical users aren't going to use it (just like Firefox, unfortunately) until it's preinstalled on some box and gets some name recognition.
Michael
Usually because some Isreallis started bulldozing their homes, or their refugee camp (i.e. the places they are living because their homes were already bulldozed.) Which might have been bulldozed in the first place because of some suicide bomber who became a suicide bomber because of something the Isreali's did and so on and so forth.
Next time you see Israel agree to some peace accord, watch who strikes first. 10-to-1 it's the PLO, Hamas or an Islamic terrorist - over all of whom Arafat has some control. There will never be real peace in Israel.
Israel, like the U.S., is stolen land.
There's this book I'm reading that says the Israelis were there first and were dispersed from their land by the Romans in 70AD. Of course this same book says that Israel would again become a nation and Jews from around the world would return there, exactly like what's happened over the last 60 years or so.
Right, because telling Sharon to stop butchering Palestinians is anti-semetic.
Here's how it's being played out: the Israelis want peace. They are willing to give up land for peace, which is most of what the Palestinians want (their own state is their ultimate goal). However, just as soon as Israel is willing to give up all this land, some Palestinian suicide bomber kills an Israeli.
Seems if the Palestinians were serious about peace they'd actually work with Israel, not against it.
Sad thing is you sound just like the right wing nutcases that cry anti-semitism at every opportunity
Much like the liberal left that call in the ACLU to cry racial, gender or religious discrimination - except when it's the Jews or the Christians being discriminated against (with very rare exception, of course).
Here's the answer to the next one on the list.
All Bible references are from the King James Version unless otherwise noted.
Q: Was Abraham justified by faith or works?
A: Romans 4:2 (NIV) reads, If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about - but not before God.
However, James 2:21 (NIV) reads, Was not our ancestor Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar?
Abraham is first mentioned in the Book of Genesis as Abram, husband of Sarai, later known as Sarah. God makes a covenant with Abram in Genesis 17:1-5: And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the Lord appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect. And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly, And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him, saying, As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations. Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee. Genesis 17:19 continues, And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him.
Abraham was 100 years old before he and his wife were blessed with their first son, Isaac (Abraham had a son with Sarai's handmaid previously but Isaac was the first son between Abraham and Sarah.). The Lord spoke with Abram when he was 99 years old and told him that he would be a father of many nations as is evidenced in Genesis 17:1-6. The Bible doesn't directly tell us how old Sarah was when she gave birth to Isaac, although Genesis 17:17 reads, Then Abraham fell upon his face, and laughed, and said in his heart, Shall a child be born unto him that is an hundred years old? and shall Sarah, that is ninety years old, bear?
Genesis 21:1-2 tells us that Sarah gave birth to a son: And the Lord visited Sarah as he had said, and the Lord did unto Sarah as he had spoken. For Sarah conceived, and bare Abraham a son in his old age, at the set time of which God had spoken to him.
So was Abraham justified by works or by faith? It was by faith because all Abraham did was believe in the Lord. And the Lord justified Abraham by delivering a son as promised.
When was Abraham justified by works as mentioned in James 2:21, then?
Genesis 22:2 tells us that Abraham was instructed by God to offer his son, Isaac, as a burnt offering in the land of Moriah: And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.
Genesis 22:9-13 tells of Abraham's faith: And they came to the place which God had told him of; and Abraham built an altar there, and laid the wood in order, and bound Isaac his son, and laid him on the altar upon the wood. And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son. And the angel of the Lord called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I. And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me. And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and
Well, I started with the first one and am going to work my way down the list.
,because they believed not them which had seen him
after he was risen.
The author of the list has an apparent typo; he asks the question were there 10, 11 or 12 apostles, but the quote he uses to show 10 apostles actually reads 12 and not 10, so I wrote a commentary based on the differences between the 11 and 12 apostles of Christ.
Q: Did Jesus appear to eleven or twelve apostles after his resurrection?
A: Matthew chapter 28, verse 16 reads, Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus has appointed them.
Mark chapter 16, verse 14 reads, Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart
Luke chapter 24, verse 33 reads, And they rose up the same hour, and returned to Jerusalem, and found the eleven gathered together, and them that were with them,
1 Corinthians chapter 15, verse 5 reads, And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve.
So which is it? Were there eleven apostles of Christ or twelve? Let's start in Matthew, chapter 10 to get the names of each apostle.
Matthew chapter 10:1-4 reads, And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease. Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew, his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother; Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus; Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him.
So to sum up, here are the twelve disciples:
Simon (Peter)
Andrew
James (son of Zebedee)
John (brother of James, son of Zebedee)
Philip
Bartholomew
Thomas
Matthew
James (son of Alphaeus)
Lebbaeus
Simon the Canaanite
Judas Iscariot
So we understand that there were originally twelve disciples. Why does the Bible refer to the group mostly as the twelve but sometimes as the eleven? Let's start with verse 16 from Matthew, chapter 28.
The scene from Matthew, chapter 28 is the literal resurrection of Christ. The Bible tells us in verse 2 that there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it. Clearly then, verse 16 has happened after the resurrection of Jesus Christ. So why only 11 disciples? The answer lies in Matthew, chapter 27:1-5: When the morning was come, all the chief priests and elders of the people took counsel against Jesus to put him to death: And when they had bound him, they led him away, and delivered him to Pontius Pilate the governor. then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders, Saying, I have sinned in that I have betrayed the innocent blood. And they said, What is that to us? see thou to that. And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself.
Judas committed suicide, leaving only 11 literal disciples. Much in the same way as some older bands go on tour decades after their
Excellent. I'll dig out my concordance, commentary, dictionary and several versions of the Bible and do some of these for you. Are there any in particular that interest you?
If someone is a believer, than they must take the bible literally, despite the contradictions.
Okay. I'll bite. Give me some contradictions. I'm up for a challenge.
If more babies come out of a process then it's OK.
Yup. More babies is okay. Killing babies is not.
Huh??. which is it 2 of everything or 7 of some and 2 of the rest.
:) Ask God to open your heart to understanding the Bible. He will if you mean it.
Genesis 7:2 reads "Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female."
Genesis 7:8-9 reads, "Of clean beasts, and of beasts that are not clean, and of fowls, and of every thing that creepeth upon the earth,There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah."
It was two of every unclean and seven of every clean. Gen. 7:2 says that clearly. In Gen. 7:8-9, it is stating the way the beasts boarded the ark - in pairs - two at a time. It isn't talking about the number of each type of animal.
If the bible is inerrant than Gen 7:8-9 must be a misprint in my copies.
So your Bible doesn't have a misprint.
If the former, then the "clean" species were extincted when Noah offered on his newly built altar: (Gen 8:20). So I guess the two of everything _must_ be true since _clean_ beasts appear after the flood.
Gen. 8:20 reads, "And Noah builded an altar unto the LORD; and took of every clean beast, and of every clean fowl, and offered burnt offerings on the altar."
So Noah used CLEAN animals (there were seven of those taken aboard) and made an offering. So no species were forced into extinction because Noah made a sacrifice on the altar. There were some people who got in trouble in the Bible for using unclean animals for sacrifices.
Oops, Excuse me for using logic to question this. I'm averse to using fantasy and superstition when I try to think logically.
No problem. I don't believe in superstition anyway.
All through your life, I Me Mine, I Me Mine, I Me Mine. -- John Lennon
Beatles fan? Me too! My favorite band! You quoted a George Harrison song, though, not a Lennon one. Might want to update your sig.
rounding up 2 of every type of animal
:)
I take exception to that statement. The Bible states that two of every living thing and seven of every clean beast and two of every unclean beast were taken aboard. Most people just think it was two of everything.
Even the most die hard christian fundamentalists would have a job believing so much patent bullcrap. Please, if you want to be christian then at least be one of the ones that whines "well, you ren't supposed to take it all litterally" every time you are challenged.
I am a die-hard Christian fundamentalist. I believe the Bible to be inerrant and I take the Bible very literally. If you read it you can see when the writer is speaking figuratively or literally. So I won't whine about not taking it literally if you challenge me.
thousands of years before the enlightenment.
The who?
Noah was able to identify the sexes of hundreds of different species, and even identify those that reproduced asexually
Noah didn't. God did.
Putting this into context, god commanded the Ark to be 300 cubits in length, which is roughly 140 metres, whereas at the battle of Trafalgar Nelson's flagship was about 65 metres in length.
Amazing, isn't it? Of course, there's always been God around that created the heavens and the earth. He did that before ANYONE even thought about building anything.
You seriously believe that thousands of years before the industrial revolution, god commanded Noah and his nearest and dearest to build a boat entirely of wood, that would be larger than any later wooden battleships.
He had 120 years to build it. Remember that God told Noah that man's days were numbered to 120. Noah was the only person found righteous in the eyes of the Lord so he and his family were told to build the ark.
I'll defend my faith until the day I die.
Yes, nakedness was wrong AFTER she ate from the tree . The tree only made her realize that she was naked and she was ashamed. Why would God create Adam and Eve naked if it was wrong? Only Satan makes the wrongs of the world. The tree was of the knowledge of good and evil, allowing both of them to discern the difference between the two. But even Eve said that if she ate from the tree she would surely die - how could she NOT know that it was wrong to eat from the tree? Why would God give them a choice to sin if they weren't able to discern the difference between right and wrong? And *I* go by heretical, anti-Christian doctrine?
I have read the bible; Adam and Eve gained that knowledge by eating of the Tree of Knowledge.
I assumed you hadn't read it because you said He designed people to not know the difference from right and wrong. That is an incorrect statement. Adam and Eve were perfect in every way until they ate from the tree. They also understood that it was wrong to eat from the tree.
I suppose we're just going to have to agree to disagree.
Worship Me or go to hell? You must be using some definition of "choice" with which I am unfamiliar.
I certainly don't want to spend eternity gnashing my teeth in agony. Do you?