it all depends on the DJ. about 10 years ago a local rock station had a kickass DJ named Carlito. He had one of the night shows, and was amusing as hell. The radio station eventually changed format to classic rock because they broughr in a local DJ(Tim and Deb) from the competition who was supposed to be the "best in the area" and he didn't like "devil music". (yes, he actually called it that. I woke up to hearing him explain the change in format and that "we got rid of their devil music too!")
I never found out what happened to Carlito... my brother told me that after a while he had locked himself in the studio and refused to get out of it until Metalica called in and explained why their new CD sucked so badly... supposedly he was fired for it. don't know if it was the same station or not.
if anyone is from the Lansing,MI area and knows what really happened to carlito, I'd like to hear it.
I honestly can't see any way to win at this point, and it sucks. There is no way microsoft can be punished. even levelling record setting fines, microsoft still makes out good. This was supposed to be a punishment, not giving them any sort of leverage.
I don't know what to say. reading all the responses, this sorta hits home.
I just quit my job as a web developer last friday.
My wife had just gotten a job as an office manager, and I was quickly getting worn out from the constant flow of customers assulting my sanity. I had a baseball size ulcer and felt like crap every day.
I've been debating what to do with my life now. I have a little bit of leeway with the wife (she was unemployed for a year), so now I have some choices. I've done web dev for 3 years, and have only been out of college for 6 months. I have an assload of loans to pay off, so I have to get a job eventually. The problem is I don't know what to do- I don't even know if I want to be in the field anymore.
I'm going to take a week or two off, fix up some things I've been meaning to get to, and look at my options. I have several things to choose from:
* programmer
* web developer
* sys-admin
* tech writer
* job that requires college education, but not a specific field
* job that requires no education, manual labor
All things equal I'd like to admin a small network for a small company, but that's not likely to happen. I'm not a great programmer, and I'm ok at web dev. My writing style is mediocre, and my spelling sucks. My options seem pretty limited at this time.
you have to ask yourself- does microsoft have more to gain by being sued by sco, giving sco money for reparations, and legally proving linux is a huge risk, or not being sued at all?
MS has already given sco money- I'm sure they wouldn't mind giving them some more if it furthered their cause.
I have the same setup, or rather did- I finally got tired of the junk monitor and pitched it. looking to get a better monitor to work with my current one.
dual monitors worked fine for me, it's just a matter of setting up X correctly- I agree, it's a pain in the ass.
mozilla has features like "block images from this server" and popup blocking.
opera makes it's money by offering a free browser with ads built in.
I'm not disagreeing with opera's compliance- it's great, but people are just getting tired of the ads. I don't use opera because those ads eat up a lot of valuable screen space on my 13" monitor.
I'd pay for opera except I'm broke(see 13" monitor comment.)
I'm sure the list can go on... as a matter of fact, I seem to remember a list of the "top 101 reasons to switch to moz from ie" somewhere. I wish I knew where it was offhand.
those provided a few *great* reasons and some that weren't so good.
there's one problem with what you're saying- it's in unstable.
I've had several bad exerpiences with people in #debian on freenode(*cough*mwilson*cough*) that say you should never ever run unstable unless your a developer and you're an idiot if you do and that they'll refuse to help you. when you ask them "but then how do I install kdeX?" they give you shit about being a KDE user. At the time I was using testing because everyone told me it was more stable than unstable, but still had newer packages than stable. at the time, both unstable and stable had kde 3, and I couldn't get it for testing.
I'm backing the original poster on this- a *lot* of debian "fanboys"/supporters despise KDE. (I had a horrible meltdown when I did try unstable to get kde, so I'm a bit biased.) I still run debian as a server on one of my machines because it's happily tugged along with occasional updates, but all my workstations(5 of them) run gentoo because it's ports-like system completely avoids the issues I was having with debian.
I wish I could explain it better, but I'm not that eloquent. I do agree with you tho- the new debian installer is nice. it's sad that distros are judged on something that you'll only ever use once.
the big deal is that this is supposed to be a unifying representative of the linux community- a professional and polished face to show the world.
it's not very representational if they don't at lease offer the choice one of the most widely used desktop environments.
I personally think it will be much more likely to be adopted if KDE is included. I base this off of a personal test I performed. when I switched my wife from windows to linux, I let her try several different DE's to see if she could find one she liked. she ended up choosing KDE because it was the most intuitive for a former windows user. This isn't to say that KDE isn't without it's flaws- far from it. it has lots of little problems that irritate the hell out of me.
It all comes down to what their main goal is- if they're trying to steal windows marketshare, they need to (sad to say it) emulate windows as much as possible. I'd bet, given the *choice* between kde and gnome, you're average geek might choose gnome... this this isn't about the average geek. it's a out secretaries and librarians, sales reps and architects. Try explaining "middle click" on a 2 button mouse to your grandfather- I had a hard enough time getting people to learn what "right-click" meant. They're gonna choose the path of lease resistance, and if kde is an *OPTION*, they may choose it simply because it looks and feels more like windows
As you said, Choice is good. But I think "Choice of a ______-only" anything is not a very good choice and will hence go the way of the dodo. It's sorta like getting spending $300 on an Ipod that could only play RealAudio files. userlinux needs every advantage they can get to compete with redhat, windows, and every other distro out there. I think kde *support* would be a great help. I'm not saying to make it the default, just keep include it.
The reason they'd not be including KDE is because of it's use of QT, so I doubt they'll be including QT, meaning kde-based apps won't run. This pretty much destroys your last comments chance of ever happening
This whole thing is a convoluted mess and I'll be the first to admit I don't fully understand WTF is going on. I am curious what the chances are of bruce being able to talk trolltech into releasing an lgpl license of QT, but I get the feeling it's very unlikely.
I'm all for learning so if anyone can help us understand the whole issue, let us know. That being said, back to my gnome workstation.
...in response to your signature: Actually, one of the original storylines for the simpsons was supposed to be about a boy who completely disrespected his father yet idolized a clown who looked exactly like his father. I heard this in an interview on NPR with Matt Groening(sp?). They later decided to drop that storyline, but the remnants are still there- the looks, the attitude towards krusty and homer. If you ever get a chance, I highly suggest listening to that bit- you can probably find it on NPR's website.
(note to mods: don't bother voting this overrated or offtopic- it is what it is: informative. I didn't turn on my Karma Bonus so spend your mod points elsewhere.)
...but my wife and I both play neverwinter nights- great multiplayer game that can provide good laughs if you have a good module. I highly suggest the nordock module.
just a thought../me adjusts his tinfoil hat hear me out on this.
* microsoft gives SCO a heap of money google: we're gonna be an ipo! microsoft: can we buy you? google: *giggle* fark no. microsoft: fine, we'll just make our own search engine and beat you in a fair fight by being the best out there like every one of our products! ---days pass--- google: here comes our ipo! SCO: WE WANT YOU TO GIVE US MONEY NOW OR WE SUE YOU LIKE EVERONE ELSE!!!!1!! WE ROXOR! google: uh, go away.
I've seen the conspiracy nuts mention that SCO may be acting on behalf of microsoft in several instances. I wonder if this is SCO pissing in googles pool because they told microsoft to go fark themselves.
just a thought... I'd like to see someone track every company sco and microsoft 'did business with' that overlapped.
ok, I'll shut up now. thoughts? can anyone find any evidence to support that.
I haven't played legend of zelda in many, MANY years. but recent I've had it stuck in my head whenever I talk to clients, and I always snicker imagining that they're gannon, and I'm running up and stabbing them with a coffee stir thingie.
Fortunately, I've always stopped myself before it reached the point of contaminating my coffee stir, but I still hear the music.
well, when it turns into a we're coming down for the weekend" and I spend 16 hours working on my father-in-laws computers, it can cramp your style a bit.
whereas you spend 3-4 hours when you see them working on their computers, we spend 3-4 every weekend.
I like my family- even some of the inlaws, but I just get burned out constantly working on their computers when I have (seriously) 100 things to do to my own network.
not to complain, but I feel for the grandparent poster- I know how it goes. as for the parent poster, it doesn't sound like it's a weekly deal for you- it is for us.
ok, We gotta look at who this is targeted at- a) enterprise systems b) everyone else c) geek elite
a) enterprise systems- ok, if we're going to look at business deployment, you gotta look at who will be using it- at the previous companies I worked for, there were 350 employees and about 20 tech-saavy ones(10 were IT related). The thing you gotta look at here is the other 330 employees probably have never heard of linux.
/me puts on flame-proof armor.
It has been my experience that completely clueless users prefer kde because it's more 'polished*' than gnome- it looks and feels like a cross between windows and macintosh. This makes the transition easier for people who don't want to dig to get something to work. This was the case with my wife and my younger brother.
* by polished I mean comes with the most user-level tools. Some may call this bloat, I call it usability for the unwashed masses.
b). everyone else- I'm curious what the actual breakdown of gnome/kde/box/other WM's actually is. From my limited experience, most people that I know use kde or fluxbox/blackbox. I can only think of two or three off the top of my head that use gnome. It would make sense to include the most popular. Obviously my own experience is probably not an accurate reflection of reality. I think slashdot should run a poll on this.
c). Geek elite - This is sort of silly, but they usually are the ones making the decisions. They'll use what they want and we'll like it until someone branchese off a tree of their own. That would completely defeat the purpose of this project.
The goal is to unite linux into one standardized distro to base things off of(IIRC). While I agree they need to watch out for bloating, there has to be a few exceptions. Otherwise this will just turn into another United Linux.
Last year I remember hearing about this story, and sorta had a "good for them" feelgood moment.
A year later I'm a little wiser and felt that someone should say this.
Thank you.
Since I don't know a whole lot about your business, I plan on checking it out and trying to become a paying customer solely because I believe you are a "good" company. I'll make sure to spread the word to my family so they can know what's going on.
there aren't many out there with the balls to do what you do, so again, Thank you. -Morgajel
I can vouch for this- I had a paper due for a writing class that did this: the professor marked me down and said it looks like I spliced to papers together. when I noticed it and complained, we sat down and printed out a copy that was auto- numbered.
but I'm sure wal-mart's at an all-time employing high.
don't you feel good about that degree you have? I sure do.
-sad, disinfranchised techie who was in school during the peak and graduated into nothingness.
I've been looking for a decent linux admin job for a small to medium sized company.... nada. I'm probably going to have to make a career move before I even have a career. Unless of course any/.'ers are looking to hire a junior admin the the western michigan area.
Sometimes that may be true, MS gets more attention because it's bigger...but others... it's just carelessness. IIS qualifies as a clusterfuck, plain and simple. So where do you draw the line?
I moved from redhat to slackware to debian, and have just recently made the move to gentoo. As a former debian user, I don't want to come off as one of the gentoo jackasses, but I gotta say it is a pretty decent system. everything seems to be stable, no package conflicts (as of yet), and emerge and been pretty kick ass.
On the downside, install takes forever, and emerging packages yourself can take forever(depending on the machine). I had a 2100+xp with 512 of ram and the install took a week before I got a comfortable system.
Something that I've found helps soften the blow is Distcc- I've been converting my debian boxes to gentoo, and as I go, I add them to the distcc collective... now when my pentium 2 400 compiles, it takes less time than my 2100+ did (because it parallel compiling on the 2100+, an athlon 1200 and a duron 1200, a P3 900, and a P3 600).
As you can imagine, that cuts down compilation time:) anyways, if you have the patience, give gentoo a try, but make sure you save it till you get a few days in a row where you're not busy. Few words of wisdon:
don't go crazy with optimization flags. name your processor line and that's it.
get familiar with emerge.
checkout the package ufed. it's a nice little listing of cool flags you can use.
install vim|emacs, openssh, and fluxbox right off the bat. it will help make the install a little less painless.
follow the install directions CLOSELY. you'll save a lot of pain.
emerge can install a program several different ways- by name (apache), by version (apache-1.28.3), by tar file (apache-2.0.37.tbz), or my meta package(kde installs many smaller packages)
get familiar with the system and world meta packages. they're your friends, so understand what they are.
even if it takes a lot of time, don't get frustrated. you probably won't get gentoo installed correctly on your first try anyways. It's just the way things are... it's a learning process.
Slashdot Mirror
The one time I RTFA... this happens.
/me shudders
Now I gotta go buy a new keyboard.
I swear I will always read the comments before the article from now on.
it all depends on the DJ. about 10 years ago a local rock station had a kickass DJ named Carlito. He had one of the night shows, and was amusing as hell. The radio station eventually changed format to classic rock because they broughr in a local DJ(Tim and Deb) from the competition who was supposed to be the "best in the area" and he didn't like "devil music".
(yes, he actually called it that. I woke up to hearing him explain the change in format and that "we got rid of their devil music too!")
I never found out what happened to Carlito... my brother told me that after a while he had locked himself in the studio and refused to get out of it until Metalica called in and explained why their new CD sucked so badly... supposedly he was fired for it. don't know if it was the same station or not.
if anyone is from the Lansing,MI area and knows what really happened to carlito, I'd like to hear it.
ask an mtv "reviewer" (for example,carson daily) what they think of the new joint effort of kid rock and britney spears.
beauty is in the ear of the listener.
I can only imagine what they'd think of Tinpan Alley by Stevie Ray Vaughn.
Damned if you don't.
I honestly can't see any way to win at this point, and it sucks. There is no way microsoft can be punished. even levelling record setting fines, microsoft still makes out good. This was supposed to be a punishment, not giving them any sort of leverage.
aw hell, I just don't care any,ore.
all he really has to worry about is the potato flying at him at 400 feet per second from a quarter mile away.
if a crazy geek attacks, that last thing it's gonna be is a bullet- we're more creative than that.
I don't know what to say. reading all the responses, this sorta hits home.
I just quit my job as a web developer last friday.
My wife had just gotten a job as an office manager, and I was quickly getting worn out from the constant flow of customers assulting my sanity. I had a baseball size ulcer and felt like crap every day.
I've been debating what to do with my life now. I have a little bit of leeway with the wife (she was unemployed for a year), so now I have some choices. I've done web dev for 3 years, and have only been out of college for 6 months. I have an assload of loans to pay off, so I have to get a job eventually. The problem is I don't know what to do- I don't even know if I want to be in the field anymore.
I'm going to take a week or two off, fix up some things I've been meaning to get to, and look at my options. I have several things to choose from:
* programmer
* web developer
* sys-admin
* tech writer
* job that requires college education, but not a specific field
* job that requires no education, manual labor
All things equal I'd like to admin a small network for a small company, but that's not likely to happen. I'm not a great programmer, and I'm ok at web dev. My writing style is mediocre, and my spelling sucks.
My options seem pretty limited at this time.
any thoughts on what I should do next?
-morgajel
you have to ask yourself- does microsoft have more to gain by being sued by sco, giving sco money for reparations, and legally proving linux is a huge risk, or not being sued at all?
/me adjusts his wooden sword and tinfoil hat.
MS has already given sco money- I'm sure they wouldn't mind giving them some more if it furthered their cause.
I have the same setup, or rather did- I finally got tired of the junk monitor and pitched it. looking to get a better monitor to work with my current one.
dual monitors worked fine for me, it's just a matter of setting up X correctly- I agree, it's a pain in the ass.
mozilla has features like "block images from this server" and popup blocking.
opera makes it's money by offering a free browser with ads built in.
I'm not disagreeing with opera's compliance- it's great, but people are just getting tired of the ads.
I don't use opera because those ads eat up a lot of valuable screen space on my 13" monitor.
I'd pay for opera except I'm broke(see 13" monitor comment.)
I'll bite.
how about tabs? that's a favorite too.
I'm sure the list can go on... as a matter of fact, I seem to remember a list of the "top 101 reasons to switch to moz from ie" somewhere. I wish I knew where it was offhand.
those provided a few *great* reasons and some that weren't so good.
there's one problem with what you're saying- it's in unstable.
I've had several bad exerpiences with people in #debian on freenode(*cough*mwilson*cough*) that say you should never ever run unstable unless your a developer and you're an idiot if you do and that they'll refuse to help you.
when you ask them "but then how do I install kdeX?" they give you shit about being a KDE user. At the time I was using testing because everyone told me it was more stable than unstable, but still had newer packages than stable. at the time, both unstable and stable had kde 3, and I couldn't get it for testing.
I'm backing the original poster on this- a *lot* of debian "fanboys"/supporters despise KDE.
(I had a horrible meltdown when I did try unstable to get kde, so I'm a bit biased.) I still run debian as a server on one of my machines because it's happily tugged along with occasional updates, but all my workstations(5 of them) run gentoo because it's ports-like system completely avoids the issues I was having with debian.
I wish I could explain it better, but I'm not that eloquent. I do agree with you tho- the new debian installer is nice. it's sad that distros are judged on something that you'll only ever use once.
the big deal is that this is supposed to be a unifying representative of the linux community- a professional and polished face to show the world.
it's not very representational if they don't at lease offer the choice one of the most widely used desktop environments.
I personally think it will be much more likely to be adopted if KDE is included. I base this off of a personal test I performed. when I switched my wife from windows to linux, I let her try several different DE's to see if she could find one she liked. she ended up choosing KDE because it was the most intuitive for a former windows user. This isn't to say that KDE isn't without it's flaws- far from it. it has lots of little problems that irritate the hell out of me.
It all comes down to what their main goal is- if they're trying to steal windows marketshare, they need to (sad to say it) emulate windows as much as possible. I'd bet, given the *choice* between kde and gnome, you're average geek might choose gnome... this this isn't about the average geek. it's a out secretaries and librarians, sales reps and architects. Try explaining "middle click" on a 2 button mouse to your grandfather- I had a hard enough time getting people to learn what "right-click" meant. They're gonna choose the path of lease resistance, and if kde is an *OPTION*, they may choose it simply because it looks and feels more like windows
As you said, Choice is good. But I think "Choice of a ______-only" anything is not a very good choice and will hence go the way of the dodo. It's sorta like getting spending $300 on an Ipod that could only play RealAudio files. userlinux needs every advantage they can get to compete with redhat, windows, and every other distro out there. I think kde *support* would be a great help. I'm not saying to make it the default, just keep include it.
The reason they'd not be including KDE is because of it's use of QT, so I doubt they'll be including QT, meaning kde-based apps won't run. This pretty much destroys your last comments chance of ever happening
This whole thing is a convoluted mess and I'll be the first to admit I don't fully understand WTF is going on. I am curious what the chances are of bruce being able to talk trolltech into releasing an lgpl license of QT, but I get the feeling it's very unlikely.
I'm all for learning so if anyone can help us understand the whole issue, let us know. That being said, back to my gnome workstation.
...in response to your signature:
Actually, one of the original storylines for the simpsons was supposed to be about a boy who completely disrespected his father yet idolized a clown who looked exactly like his father.
I heard this in an interview on NPR with Matt Groening(sp?).
They later decided to drop that storyline, but the remnants are still there- the looks, the attitude towards krusty and homer.
If you ever get a chance, I highly suggest listening to that bit- you can probably find it on NPR's website.
(note to mods: don't bother voting this overrated or offtopic- it is what it is: informative. I didn't turn on my Karma Bonus so spend your mod points elsewhere.)
...but my wife and I both play neverwinter nights- great multiplayer game that can provide good laughs if you have a good module. I highly suggest the nordock module.
HEAR HEAR!
you running for president anytime soon?
just a thought.. /me adjusts his tinfoil hat
hear me out on this.
* microsoft gives SCO a heap of money
google: we're gonna be an ipo!
microsoft: can we buy you?
google: *giggle* fark no.
microsoft: fine, we'll just make our own search engine and beat you in a fair fight by being the best out there like every one of our products!
---days pass---
google: here comes our ipo!
SCO: WE WANT YOU TO GIVE US MONEY NOW OR WE SUE YOU LIKE EVERONE ELSE!!!!1!! WE ROXOR!
google: uh, go away.
I've seen the conspiracy nuts mention that SCO may be acting on behalf of microsoft in several instances. I wonder if this is SCO pissing in googles pool because they told microsoft to go fark themselves.
just a thought...
I'd like to see someone track every company sco and microsoft 'did business with' that overlapped.
ok, I'll shut up now.
thoughts? can anyone find any evidence to support that.
I haven't played legend of zelda in many, MANY years. but recent I've had it stuck in my head whenever I talk to clients, and I always snicker imagining that they're gannon, and I'm running up and stabbing them with a coffee stir thingie.
Fortunately, I've always stopped myself before it reached the point of contaminating my coffee stir, but I still hear the music.
I even hear it now.
don't you?
well, when it turns into a we're coming down for the weekend" and I spend 16 hours working on my father-in-laws computers, it can cramp your style a bit.
whereas you spend 3-4 hours when you see them working on their computers, we spend 3-4 every weekend.
I like my family- even some of the inlaws, but I just get burned out constantly working on their computers when I have (seriously) 100 things to do to my own network.
not to complain, but I feel for the grandparent poster- I know how it goes. as for the parent poster, it doesn't sound like it's a weekly deal for you- it is for us.
That said, I'm gonna go fix my mailserver now.
ok, We gotta look at who this is targeted at-
/me puts on flame-proof armor.
a) enterprise systems
b) everyone else
c) geek elite
a) enterprise systems- ok, if we're going to look at business deployment, you gotta look at who will be using it- at the previous companies I worked for, there were 350 employees and about 20 tech-saavy ones(10 were IT related). The thing you gotta look at here is the other 330 employees probably have never heard of linux.
It has been my experience that completely clueless users prefer kde because it's more 'polished*' than gnome- it looks and feels like a cross between windows and macintosh. This makes the transition easier for people who don't want to dig to get something to work. This was the case with my wife and my younger brother.
* by polished I mean comes with the most user-level tools. Some may call this bloat, I call it usability for the unwashed masses.
b). everyone else- I'm curious what the actual breakdown of gnome/kde/box/other WM's actually is. From my limited experience, most people that I know use kde or fluxbox/blackbox. I can only think of two or three off the top of my head that use gnome. It would make sense to include the most popular. Obviously my own experience is probably not an accurate reflection of reality. I think slashdot should run a poll on this.
c). Geek elite - This is sort of silly, but they usually are the ones making the decisions. They'll use what they want and we'll like it until someone branchese off a tree of their own. That would completely defeat the purpose of this project.
The goal is to unite linux into one standardized distro to base things off of(IIRC). While I agree they need to watch out for bloating, there has to be a few exceptions. Otherwise this will just turn into another United Linux.
and we don't want that.
Last year I remember hearing about this story, and sorta had a "good for them" feelgood moment.
A year later I'm a little wiser and felt that someone should say this.
Thank you.
Since I don't know a whole lot about your business, I plan on checking it out and trying to become a paying customer solely because I believe you are a "good" company. I'll make sure to spread the word to my family so they can know what's going on.
there aren't many out there with the balls to do what you do, so again, Thank you.
-Morgajel
I can vouch for this- I had a paper due for a writing class that did this: the professor marked me down and said it looks like I spliced to papers together. when I noticed it and complained, we sat down and printed out a copy that was auto- numbered.
sure enough, it was missing page 12 or 13.
but I'm sure wal-mart's at an all-time employing high.
/.'ers are looking to hire a junior admin the the western michigan area.
don't you feel good about that degree you have?
I sure do.
-sad, disinfranchised techie who was in school during the peak and graduated into nothingness.
I've been looking for a decent linux admin job for a small to medium sized company.... nada. I'm probably going to have to make a career move before I even have a career.
Unless of course any
WTF is the fdic or whoever it is that insures them? they should be kicking some ass and taking names.
that's why IIS has more holes than apache, right? because it has a bigger market share?
Sometimes that may be true, MS gets more attention because it's bigger...but others... it's just carelessness. IIS qualifies as a clusterfuck, plain and simple. So where do you draw the line?
On the downside, install takes forever, and emerging packages yourself can take forever(depending on the machine). I had a 2100+xp with 512 of ram and the install took a week before I got a comfortable system.
Something that I've found helps soften the blow is Distcc- I've been converting my debian boxes to gentoo, and as I go, I add them to the distcc collective... now when my pentium 2 400 compiles, it takes less time than my 2100+ did (because it parallel compiling on the 2100+, an athlon 1200 and a duron 1200, a P3 900, and a P3 600).
As you can imagine, that cuts down compilation time
anyways, if you have the patience, give gentoo a try, but make sure you save it till you get a few days in a row where you're not busy.
Few words of wisdon: