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Trivial Barriers to Personal Linux Use?
saintp asks: "I'm currently multitasking: building a computer for my girlfriend, and also trying to convince her to put Linux on it, so I've been thinking a lot lately about the barriers to adoption of Linux by Normal Everyday People. One that seems to be a major problem is that Windows users are addicted to downloading every piece of crapware that comes down the tubes -- hence the popularity of Gator and subsequent popularity of Ad-Aware. While geeks the world over sigh at this behavior, it makes a lot of people really happy, and they are very chagrined to discover that they can't do this on Linux without some command line mucking about, compilation, etc. What other minor, apparently trivial barriers exist to personal Linux use? Is anything being done to address these, or do many of the major vendors seem to be focusing exclusively on the business market, possibly to the detriment of Linux in the long run?"
Your girlfriend might download alot of software just to try it out, but everyone I know is too scared to.
I know back in the day before I had migrated to Linux, I would install various programs just to play around with them. However, I never installed crapware like Gator, it was usually just stuff from sourceforge that sounded useful.
Maybe you could try giving her a distro that uses RPM, then show her freshmeat and sourceforge, and teach her how to install any programs she might want. That should satisfy her urge to try out new things.
It's a pain to install software on Linux compared to Windows. What I'd like to see is a nice, standardized binary distribution method, with good OS integration. RPM is good, but requires opening it in a program. What I'd like to see is a way to, by simply double-clicking on the RPM, install it to the directory of my choice (e.g. have it bring up an installer similar to the ones commonly used in Windows). Also, the directory structure in Linux is relatively confusing to work with. How about a single, unified folder for my programs, like Windows' Program Files folder? I've heard of a distribution that uses a directory structure similar to Windows', but it's definitely not one of the larger ones.
I'm a multiple monitor addict: once you get used to having two or more monitors at your disposal, working on a single monitor just feels cramped. Unfortunately, I have one nice monitor and one crappy monitor I picked up god-knows-where. The nice monitor maxes out at a much higher resolution. I refuse to work at the "lowest common denominator" resolution, so until X extensions support multi-mon with differing resolutions, I will not migrate to Linux.
In fact, this is the *one* reason I don't even have a Linux installation.
The Online Slang Dictionary
I want to play the newest games. Linux can't do that, so I don't use it.
I am certainly not against apt-getting every little thing I here about, no matter how little I need, know about, or can trust it!
-- 'The' Lord and Master Bitman On High, Master Of All
Check out Sun Java Desktop System. It is a OS based on a Linux kernel and Suse Linux.
Though you won't be able click and install applications, like one would do on a Window box, but Java Desktop System is a very close to it.
I think Sun Java desktop introduced a happy medium. Making it too easy to install software, increase chances of getting infected by a virus, worm etc.
Here are some more presentations on Sun Java Desktop
Consensus is good, but informed dictatorship is better
When I first tried linux and the bsds it took me a while to figure out how to get arround in the terminal.
perhaps "dir" should start a linux tutorial as i'm sure i'm not the only person who's first instinct was to type "dir" when given a command prompt.
-John Fenley
One thing that I've been thinking of lately that is really a limitation for end users to adopt linux in the desktop is the (un)ability to easily share resources in a LAN environment.
I might be wrong at this, but I haven't seen in either GNOME or KDE something like 'right button click' -> 'share this folder' option, to get a list of the known users and automatically add it to the samba/nfs shares/exports list. If someone knows about some work being done in that direction, that would be a Godsend.
Regards,
Articulos para gente geek: Poleras, linux, libros y mas
Lindows is trying to solve the very problem you are looking at. Sure, people bitch about them (mainly due to the elitism of many Linux users), but I heard it's a nice solid distro, and things like click-and-run make it very easy to install software.
I use Linux most of the time. The only reason I sometimes (too often) boot to Windows, is when I want to either play a game or do some genealogy. There aren't many games for Linux - not very popular, at least - and there are certainly no genealogy software which can compete with the genealogy software developed for Windows. I guess I can live with that.
:)
What concerns me most is the situation for the rest of the family; We are Norwegians, and my father does some accounting for a few locale companies. I've yet to see a decent accounting application for Linux which works according to Norwegian rules. We're actually talking about one application which separates my father from using Linux instead of Windows.
My brother took over my father's farm a year ago. He needs Windows for some special software related to running a farm. Once again - it's only one piece of software.
My other brother doesn't have this problem, but he's not so good in English. I would have loved to install Linux on his laptop so that I didn't have to help him out every time Windows f*cked up. But most of the Linux software lacks in the localization field. Not many applications are being translated to Norwegian.
Conclusion: Some special software which still looks a few years from now, and the lack of localizing the most popular software. I guess both of these problems will be solved over time, but I would've given my lef...right foot for having it solved now.
I have to keep screwing with it.
Seriously. I mean, I like messing about with computers, OS flavors, etc, etc. I've currently got a couple different flavors of linux, looking for a third, and am thinking about a BSD. It's just lack of space for hardware that keeps me from having more toys. It's nice to use, it's powerful, it's flexible..
However, I'm not always in the mood to sit down and figure out why something doesn't work right. For instance, why Mandrake currently has told me three times in a row that my glibc is out of date. And upgraded it to the newest version each time. (Yes, using "mandrake update".) Oh, and doing so BROKE Mandrake Update. My OS update feature broke itself. I'm sure this is fixable, but why should I have to screw with it just to make the admin tools work again?
My mouse. It's got 5 buttons. Why the HELL would I want to install a program, tweak multiple files, and chant ominously just to get the side buttons working? I know how, sure. It's just I have better things to do.
I don't WANT to make my game work. I want my game to WORK. I don't want to have to make X program load properly, or hand-twiddle a configuration file. I want to open a damn document, view it, edit it, and save it with formatting. No, I don't want to learn TeX to do it. I know I CAN, but why do I have to?
Seriously. I'm a damn hobbyist, and I do these things for fun, and it still pisses me off that I have to spend more time playing with it to make it work than it does working. Updates shouldn't break things. Upgrades shouldn't cause triple-layered dependency hell. THere shouldn't be dependency hell at all. We hate "dll hell", why is fucking about trying to find just the right version of a given module acceptable? I mean, there's girls and liquor and music out there for me, why should I spend all my time fixing something that can just work? (I know it can. Apple did it. It's been done once, thus can be done again. It's just not BEING done.)
Choice? Screw choice! I want function! Would you drive a car if you had to put the damn wheels on every time you parked it? Would you put up with having to buy the correct grade of gas from JUST th right pump style, from the exact proper petrol chain, just to start the car in the morning?
For fuck's sake, the 2.6 upgrade, which I look forward to installing on GENTOO for the love of god, isn't covered by the documentation, requires a full replacement of the main module utilities, and Still might not work right. I CAN'T RTFM, since this shit isn't IN the FM to R.
I think you get the idea.
I love doing this stuff, and it STILL pisses me off and drives me to drink. What do you think your granny's going to do?
Go back to windows, or Mac, or something that does what she wants, when she wants it, and doesn't have to be babysat.
And enough with the goddamn text editors, people. I understand you like them, but I don't need 50 of them. Spend the time you used to put those on my distro app disk to make sure the distro doesn't randomly shit itself.
(Not bitter or anything, me...)
Why not create an installer packaging program like the ones used on Windows and MacOS? This seems like something that would be good for KDE and Gnome to work on together. This packaging system would be great for beginning and desktop users, while not necessarily attempting to replace the myriad packaging systems already out there. I think that this is an important caveat - a lot of the packaging systems that linux distros use have a lot of features that are great for unix manglers, but from a desktop OS standpoint they qualify as creeping featurism and add excessive complication to the whole installation process. Also, using an InstallShield type system means that different packages can have slightly different install processes, depending on what needs to be done to get the package working.
The directory structure is also something that doesn't necessarily need to be scrapped - I personally think it's a Very Good layout from a server/workstation administration standpoint, although I agree that it's terrible for a desktop computer. Again, I think OS X has hit on a very good solution - keep two separate file structures. One would be aimed at a desktop user and would be visible through the desktop environment. Applications that a desktop user needs can be placed here. Keep the old file tree, but make it invisible to the desktop environment (by default, anyway).
This system isn't without its faults, but I've found it to be an excellent comrpomise on OS X.
Every few months for several years I have downloaded a couple of Linux distros with the express purpose of trying install it on my PC. Sometimes I tried clean installs, sometimes dual boot.
As much as I would love to use Linux and OSS, I have an even greater need of a working system that handles my basic needs. Right off the top my system has to handle a USB and parallel port printer, HP scanner, Palm sync, Internet connection, access to the Windows boxes on our small network, and allow the Windows boxes to use the printers and see my files.
If all of those work, I can spare the time to wade though the great morass of information that Linux calls "documentation" and learn the obscure tricks that are needed to manage a Linux system.
What I can't afford is to have a system that does only some of the things above. Thus far installing Linux has always left me with at least two of my needed functions absent. I already know that trying to find out how to fix them will consume days if not weeks.
With Windows 2K (and driver discs) everything above "just works" out of the box.
Just for the record: Mandrake (a few times) RedHat (3 times), Suse, Caldera (long time ago), Knoppix, and at least two others.
Three Squirrels
once I finally got it installed and working with my hardware, was the selection of text editors found in the Linux distributions I've tried. The graphical ones are getting better, but vi and emacs are very difficult for most newcomers to learn. mcedit is a bit more familiar, and comes with many distributions, but it wasn't until years later that I noticed it was there.
Problem is--and this is not a dig--that the stuff on Sourceforge and Freshmeat is virtually always poo.
That's the way it's supposed to be. Sourceforge and Freshmeat are places where any schmo can post his perl script for printing "boobies!" a billion times.
It's incredibly hard to find useful things on either of those sites just by browsing.
Getting hardware to work is a pain.
Chasing dependancies is a pain.
Who cares what "trivial" problems an OS has if you can't see the CDRom or install software?
I'd love to ditch windows for Unix/Linux, but I don't have time for this nonsense.
-=sig=-
My mom's computer was popping up ads every couple minutes under windows, so last summer I set it up as a dual-boot Debian box. Installed mozilla, gaim, openoffice, & the usual basics (my mom had to have solitaire & mahjohngg), and showed them how to switch back & forth w/ the lilo menu. I also set up gdm w/ the face browser, & set it so they don't have to type in a password (although my 16-yr-old sister opted to have one anyway, 'cause "it's cool!").
Next time I went home, they had me switch the default to Linux so they didn't have to sit there when it booted up. My mom, sister, and stepdad (who can't even figure out how to use the DVD player) have been using it quite happily since then, and aside from having to install flash for my sister (which I was able to do remotely via ssh, another plus), they haven't complained at all about not being able to install shit. They're just damn happy they can read their email (they use mozilla), chat, & web surf w/o being bombarded by popups all the time. They're also quite impressed that they can each have their own web bookmarks and desktop pictures (first thing my sister did was put up a Pirates of the Caribbean background). I don't think they've booted into Windows much at all since then.
Only real problem they've had is that there's currently no way I know of for them to switch users when my sister has xscreensaver locked, short of killing X.
I think this is one of the most interesting problems. Many users love their Hotbar and ever-changing desktops, even when I explain that it's what's making their computers run at the speed of a drugged slug.
I have one particular user, a cute girl, who just loves her Hotbar. "It's pretty!" she gushes. And of course her desktop picture is filled with Pink, her favourite colour.
I have been quite surprised how much people get attached to these things. As someone who doesn't even switch away from the default MacOS X desktop theme (it's tasteful!), I find them absolutely bewildering
But since they love their Hotbars, I leave them alone, because above all, I want my users to be happy. Happy users are productive users. And so on.
But why are people addicted to things as silly as ever-changing resource-killing screensavers, and Hotbar?
I'd love to know.
D
Setting up CUPS is easy, but the drives available for my Canon BJC-3000 printer all SUCK. Normal printing is all faded, and even the "high quality" printing (which takes FOREVER to print) still has crappy colors.
My wife wants to print things like cards or color signs and labels. Until someone writes a much better BJC-3000 driver, (I'm using the gimp-print-4.2.5 driver) I'll have to keep that windows partition around.
"More organs means more human." - Zim
Frankly, I don't feel like pluging into the user forums and mailing lists only to get flamed because I didn't read the entire 400 pp manual accessible only with less.
I don't feel like getting flamed on IRC or Usenet or Slashdot for asking what to me is a really hard question and to you what is really easy.
I don't feel like it because right now I've got what I need on Windows. If some day I can switch to Linux with a little online support that will not result in a bunch of elitist geeks calling me whiny or annoying or stupid just because I asked a question or tried to answer a question that f********* calls for people to be whiny in the damn first place, then maybe I'll switch.
If you want people to join your &#&$##@ club, don't bitch them out when they walk in for the first time. It's just basic.
Let's assume I'm as computer savvy as your average Windows or Mac user.
Let's also say that this application I want isn't in the ports tree, so I can't get to it with apt-get. What do I do then?
Or maybe let's say that I heard a program's name, but I don't know the package's exact name. Or maybe I want version 2.x, but there are packages for version 1.x and 2.x. I don't really want to have to bother with finding out that I only get 1.x when I $apt-get install foo, and to get version 2.x I need to $apt-get install foo2.
We're talking barriers to use for people who are used to completely GUI oriented operating systems, not people who are comfortable with command-line tools like apt-get.
If Micro$oft Office was ported to Linux things would change dramatically in favour of Linux on the desktop. Like it or not.
Failure is simply the opportunity to begin again, this time more intelligently. - Henry Ford
Over the past decade or so I've tried Linux on and off a half-dozen times. Every time, I've gone back to Windows, which blows goats but at least lets me get my g.d. work done instead of having to continually f*** with obscure configuration files.
But I've installed FreeBSD a week ago, and it's going along pretty well. There's still a fair bit of f***ing with configs, but less so: it's secure from the start.
FreeBSD feels, to me, like it was designed. Linux always feels like it just accumulated by accident.
--
Don't like it? Respond with words, not karma.
1. no uniform installer w. no uniform uninstaller 3. permissions... :)
4. a billion configuration files
5. how do i talk to all my windows stuff
6. drivers, see #1 and #2
And lastly Why does every one have to have their own distro, with their own package manager. Linux is supposed to be this great free software movement, Lets get it together and find A path.
I want to help. let me know what i can do...
Jeoin
I guess the subject ties all I really have to say in together nicely enough.
I migrated my wife to Linux a few months ago, after some skips and jumps migrating her IE Favorites over (had to write my own script to migate them over. Ask for the source if you want it) I had to move her mail client from Kmail to Evolution.
What a nightmare.
Just coverting between maildir to MBOX formats were a pain, getting her people in her addressbook was another fight, and in the end I decided, there must be a better way.
Anyone remember good old BeOS? In Be you had People... Every mail client used People as a master address book. It was clean, intelligent, and you didn't have to code up your own converter every time you wanted to switch mail clients. The same goes for Mail... The system saved mail on the hard drive in a specific place and format (Maildir, I think it really ended up being). All mail clients used it, and they all behaved well with it.
And finally, the browser favorites were located in one place, installed a third party browser? No problem! They all read the favorites from the same place. Coolest part, if you had to backup, just a few folders to drag from the users directory and all the important stuff was backed up to cd.
Here lately i've started working on a framework to unify People (address books) Places (Favorites) and Things (Mail) so that users can use any mail client they wish, with any browser, and everything stays (and, more importantly, keeps) updated, no matter what client one uses.
Oh, well. Someone get in touch if you want to bring back some of the cooler aspacts of BeOS to the world of Linux. It's not going to get any easier until we make it so.
If you're looking for a great light-weight but full featured graphical text editor geared toward programmers under Linux I highly recommend Cream for Vim. On the other hand, if you'd rather have an easy to use editor in shell that doesn't suck for coding, I would suggest JOE (Joe's Own Editor) which you can download here.
Just go to distrowatch.com and read the rave reviews.
:)
It looks good, it detected all my hardware on multiple machines and set everything up properly, and it's extremely user friendly.
IMHO, the best desktop Linux distribution on the market today. And I've been using Linux since '95 and have never seen it as well put together as Xandros.
Oh, and it has shiny graphical interfaces for software installation and what not.
Try it.
Ahh, yes. The pink sock.
I have a solution.
/applications /applications/mozilla /applications/mozilla/bin/mozilla.
/applications/bin folder. so
/applications/mozilla/bin/mozilla /applications/bin/mozilla.
/applications/bin folder and delete invalid ones, so that you can just delete a directory to uninstall.
.
/applications/menu
/applications/bin/*whatever
This is very simple, It avoids breaking various distros by working outside the distros file tree.
each installer package would link all the executables to a
ln -s
Have a script run before every install to check all the links in the
the installer could also be responsible for checking if requiered libraries are installed and prompt a daemon for these libraries, that daemon would be distro specific and perform the appropriate action to get the packages.
ex.1 if the distro is debian, and an installer needs samba3.x.x, it passes the need to a daemon "need samba3.", this then apt-get install samba3.
ex.2 if the distro is gentoo.....emerge samba-3.x.x, where the daemon would need to check if that is the default install for samba or if it needs to pass ACCEPT_KEYWORDS="~x86"
you get the point.
now we also have a
this folder contains menu items, just text files with the path to the
also, it would contain some other data identifying the program as office, games, whatever so that the menus can be built inteligently.
now another program that would be run whenever this menu directory were altered would update KDE, GNOME, windowmaker, flux, this, that, everything so that menuitems were automagically generated.
I think this would be a fairly simple system that is cross-distro compatible, easy to implement, and with easy to write tools.
any thoughts?
The Windows methodology: every program gets its own space (C:\Program Files\*\) and makes its own rules, not necessarily the user's.
/opt/*/), the burden falls on root to make it work. Unfortunately, for us source people, every distro has a different setup.
The UNIX methodology: every program uses the provided spaces and follows the system's rules (/usr hierarchy); if the program chooses not to (e.g.,
Conclude from this what you will. I'm too tired to think anymore.
The #1 use for Internet must work as well on linux on as windows before widespread adoption. Weather this is cause or effect isn't clear to me, but this is the sign.
When joe sixpack can operate a pc drunk and get download the linux equivelent of activeX viru^h^h^h^h extensions to view the website of the moment, then linux is the mainstream.
Porn drove the movie industry, home videos, the internet. It'll drive linux too.
Linux has to make it onto the office desktop before it will make it onto the home desktop.
Most people still learn to use computers in an work context (but computing in schools is making this less prevalent) and at work or in school the desktop is (by and large) Windows. This gives the advantage of familiarity to the Windows OS, and people will typically choose something familiar.
Related to this is the lack of Linux software in stores. When you walk into a computer store you see plenty of software and games for Windows. Nothing for Linux. Not everyone can download hundreds of megs of free stuff from the 'net; not everyone wants to; not everyone knows. But more importantly its the perception: "hey, there's nothing here for that Linux thing, its obviously not well supported, I probably won't be able to get the software I need".
Its all about perception. You don't see Linux, you don't know Linux, and you don't have a warm fuzzy feeling that Linux will do what you want.
Finally, don't underestimate the value of a vast amount of crappy software -- there are a lot of Windows utilities out there that offer a lot of nifty features that end users like, and they have a lot of choice. Linux also offers a lot of choice but often more aimed at geeks than non-techie end users.
In particular a lot of the available Linux software is not "polished". Please don't misread this: most of the base applications in distributions qualifies as "polished", but a lot of the alternatives (that offer choice and nifty features) are not.
A lot of this comes down to the market maturity of Linux. Windows has a massive software market with a strong base: there are many tool and component providers. Application developers can easily develop powerful applications, concentrating on functionality and usability and leaving the details of components (especially GUI widgets) to third party developers. In addition the Windows model is economic: there are literally tens of thousands of shareware developers out there who have incentive to provide what end users want, as opposed to what they personally would like to make (which is typical of Open Source).
There are relatively few development tools and third party components for Linux (in fact Linux doens't have a strong and consistent component model). The choice present at the basic levels of the OS (e.g. KDE vs GNOME vs vanilla X) is a huge obstacle that fractures the commercial development community. All of this increases the difficulty of development, the liklihood of bugs, and thus the cost. Most Linux users appear to be against paying for software, so there is not a strong shareware model.
In short, there are few Linux developments that are focused squarely on the end-user and "too hell with the geeks". And this is a problem for end users. Aside: something most OSS developers don't seem to understand is that your average end user wants choice of applications, not choice of functionality of an application. A mail client that has twenty configuration screens is just not something they want to play with, not matter how powerful or useful it may be in the long run. The more settings that can be assumed (or at least hidden for advanced users only) the better.
i-name =twylite [http://public.xdi.org/=twylite], see idcommons.net
After 2 years of Linux on my home box I went reluctantly back to Win 2K for much the same reasons. I install and remove a lot of shareware (not crapware, but progs that may be useful for development purposes) and found that I was spending more time getting things to work using a myriad of different configuration methods than I was actually using my computer for useful work.
I love Linux and have regretted going back to Windows occasionally, but at the moment I'm even considering deleting my Linux partition as I haven't booted into Linux for months.
A little planning goes a long way...
To me the thing is what can Linux give me over running say XP ?
The short answer is nothing. My home machine is used for net access, writing the odd webpage, sotring pics from my camera, a bit of word / spreasheet work... thats about it.. Whats the point in me changing to use Linux just for the sake of it and cause myself god knows how much hassle to get it working ?
Until Linux can give clear advantages to a home user its use will never be widespread in the home.
Really, I have been trying to install Windows XP and I have ended up with blue screens of misery and misery. Now I remembered why I left Windows in the first place.
The answers is, there is no barrier. Get a boxed distro, one with printed manuals (because who can RTFM when they CANT RTFM), come with proprreity apps such as Nvidia, flash and crossover (good for those propreitry apps such as Office, Photo$hop, etc). My recommendations would be SuSE 9, Mandrake 9.2, Lindows (latest version no longer runs as root, free version can be grabbed from NvU, but have to pay for click and run), Xandros and Turbo Linux. If you are willing to get a free distro, try Fedora, Ark or Knoppix. But dont go near Debian, Slackware or Gentoo. They are the "3l33tist" distros, the ones that spread the Linux is hard lie.
There are no barriers, except for inserting the cd rom, click next, next, next and reboot into a complete operating system full of applications, games and utillities all pre installed. Plus no need to reboot about 20 times to get all your drivers installed.
If there is any distro that is hard, it would be Microsoft Windows. Linux has been easy when I tried it (Mandrake 8.1), and still is today. SO WHY ARE PEOPLE STILL SPREADING FUD FROM THE PRE KDE AGES?!?
Hi all.I do experience the same problems when I try to convince people to migrate to linux.The problem is that many people are scared of computers.Using a concole is easy but not for scared ones.Many issues are still missing for the windows users as they are accsutomed to it. Such as language modules, spell check and others. Besides normal ordinay people likes things eqasy. Linux on the other hand lets you have the control. Windows is more like servant compared to Linux. Linux user is in command,while windows not. Many people would switch to linux as long as they are enforced to.
This is the key,
anyone can walk down to a PC store and pick up the software they want (games/ quicken type stuff/ desktop publishing/photoshop....) and install then easily, by themselves, on Windows.
Until Linux gets the native app support from the big software guys, AND the software is as easy to install, its not going to succeed in the long run.
THEN the PC vendors will start to sell Linux with the hardware (or will send lawyers at them?).
Two big barriers are games and software installation, according to some posters. I agree with them, but it is getting better. A few days ago, I downloaded the Linux version of Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory. Installation was simple: download, su to root, run the .run file, follow the on-screen instructions, and play the game. It worked out of the virtual box.
Okay, now I'll have to tweak my X server a bit, but hey! A free mainstream game for Linux! We're getting there.
Geek runner, motorcyclist and professional know-it-all
She'll love you for introducing her to OSX.
...)
(Put Konfabulator on there first, and set up a few nice widgets for her
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
I have read these comments here, and it looks like most of the complaints are from ancheint distros. Take a modern distro for example, such as Knoppix.
WIth knoppix, just insert the CD, reboot the computer, press the enter key. Thats all you have to do.
It just works (tm).
It detects your hardware, displays a cute little tux at the top of the screen, shows a nice little green progress bar, then it loads KDE, if your sound card was detected, it will say "Intiating Start-up Sequence". Its version of KDE has been modified to be the Knoppix Desktop Environment, so KDE was the obvious choice.
Your list of disks will be displayed on the desktop, so click on one to display its contents. It comes will all the apps you need to do common everyday things. OpenOffice for your documents, Xine for your Movies, XMMS Music player for your MP3s, Konqueror and Mozilla for your web browsing, with built in pop-up blocking.
Did I mention over 100 games? Yes, a hundred pre installed games, no more games complaints!
Best of all, this is all from a "Live CD". No installation required. If you havent go to "install" it at all. 99% of new computers are able to boot from the CD, so grab a knoppix disk today! Its amazing how they did it, but unlike Micro$oft you can leaglly get the source code to see how.
Download it now today, recently updated to include improved hardware detection, and in the 0.001% chance that it dosent work, please help them support it!
For everyday use, I recomend Mandrake 10, Ive tried the beta and it rocks. You can get 9.2 if you cant wait, but 10 will include the two of the most anticipdated Linux software of all time, KDE 3.2 and Kernel 2.6.
There IS NO EXCUSE not to just try Linux, many first tried Linux this way, and once your done, give the disks out like AOL cds, they are so easy, to use, that No wonder the Linux is hard trolls are actually getting the -1, troll rather than 5, insightful.
FUCK OFF MAC ZEALOT!
Do I really want to spend 3000 on an expensive slow machine that LOOKS LIKE A FUCKING CHEESE GRATER that gets whomped in performance by 1000 e-machine computers that look good. Not to mention that before Mac OS X, Macs were pieces of colour candy crap! Ooo, did I mention the mandatory $129 upgrade extortions that you need to pay! Yeah right, she would like that, for what. So she can look at icons enlarge when they move over them? So she can look at all her windows as thumbnails when she points the mouse cursor at a screen corner? Stop wanking Mac Fanboy, Linux has surpassed Mac OS X's usabillity AGES ago. Since KDE 3.0 and SuSE 8.0 infact!
Im getting her KDE 3.2. All the mac she wants, and with 2000 to spend on other stuff for her. Karamba kicks the shit out of Konfabulator anyday. Look at it and weep. Linux gets more eye candy then you, not to mention we get more applications becuase We use the INDUSTRY STANDARD X11 graphical system rather than some propreitry crap!
It is called wine.
Make even shorter URLs - 8LN.org
There are some good books out there apparently to help complete beginners, personally I learned from a unix guy, but you really need to start to worry when you hit midlevel.
When ls and such no longer hold any secrets there are few books who will help you along in a general way.
I can see plenty of tutorials on installing apache. Sadly all of them seem to be for very low volume sites. Start hitting the 20mbit mark and they are totally and utterly wrong. Referer log a good idea? Not when it will fill the 2gb mark in a couple of hours.
Ah sorry. Went completly of on a tanget. My point I guess is that people can learn the, unpack, make, make install process. It is learning what comes next that is really hard. Mostly because you have no idea what comes next.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
There definitely need to be brain-dead options. Click - done. At the moment doing anything with Linux is an uphill struggle even for someone like me with decades of experience with computers of various different types. I even gave up on a new Linux box simply because copy/paste between applications was so bizarrely different (and I'm already used to switching between C-c/C-v/C-y/C-k on my Windoze box, and remembering that yank has opposite meanings in my two favourite editors, so that's not the issue.)
/not/ thick, I just have better things to do with my time. At the moment, even though I want to use Linux, I know every time I turn to it that the least thing is going to be an uphill struggle of poor docs, thousands of dependencies, other software falling over, yadda yadda yadda.
Installing software is a joke. Where? Which RPMs do I need? Which RPMs need updating? What other apps fall over because their dependent RPMs have been updated without their knowledge? The number of times I'm like "oh for fuck's sake" and back to the old Windows box.
Click - done. This should be available. Of course, this doesn't mean that all the fannying around options should be removed for people who do want to use their brain, but not everyone wants to read gigabytes of bad-attitude HOWTOs for the slightest little thing.
I even gave up installing BitTorrent on my Windows box last night. What the fuck is a tracker? Where do I get one?
Ok, you can whine at me for being thick but that's rather missing the point. I'm
Really, there should be no problem with installing programs from a browser (in the way you can on Windows). All it needs is the correct configuration. Sure, if you download a tarball of the source code, you're going to have to compile it, but a lot of the time there's no need for that. If your browser recognises that you're downloading an RPM or a DEB or whatever, then it should be able to pass the downloaded file to rpm or dpkg and automatically install the program.
This is EXACTLY what package managers are for. Pre-compiled applications with all the config and data files in there PLUS meta information so that menu items can be added, dialogs can be displayed asking what shade of pinnk your widget should be and so on.
Just as we all know Open Source means you can pore over the code before you install a program, we all know users would much prefer to click on a link and have the program installed with a minimum of fuss.
Nobody seems to have thought far enough that user installed software is dangerous. You have two solutions here.
a) Use standard installers like yum, apt-get, urpmi, whatever, which only install software as root from trusted repositories.
b) Give the user the possibility to install software, but only in their own directories as themselves, and make sure through the installer that none of this software is installed setuid root.
The alternative, to make it possible for them to install whatever software as root is probably the biggest gaping hole waiting to get exploited on Linux, if it becomes mainstream desktop software.
Of the two, SuperKaramba has more plugins that will appear to the novice or non-geek. To see SuperKaramba applets, go here (though the KDE-Look.org site is currently having fits, so you might have to check back later).
These bits of mostly eyecandy might help make a Linux desktop more interesting to the uninitated.
A firewall can not protect you from yourself. Turn off what you do not need. Do not use the firewall to do your work.
Back in the day I used DOS, 4DOS (a COMMAND.COM shell replacement) was the number one must-have software.
Simple, small, clean, fast, and with all the features a power user want, even more that you could dream of.
I even prefer its TAB completion over bash.
It was incredibly productive.
"That should satisfy her urge to try out new things"
Heh, heh hurrr hurrr hurrr
Linux provides many options like filesystem type that don't really matter, but are in your face. The options I want are more like WISIWIG vs text editors, not 47 text editors to choose from. Given an option, users feel frustration if they don't know and can't find out which is "best". I like to change the look of my desktop once in a while, just for variety, and because it takes about 7 mouse clicks. I hate editing text files to make configuration changes, then restarting the affected program to see what happened. The big aps like Mozilla have gone a long way to getting it right but even KDE doesn't get it. I rarely need a programmable interface, just more to frustrate me. The whole "try a new application" process is impossible. Look for a precompiled version suitable for your flavour/version/update history of linux, download it , break someting else, go to backup. Or find source, download, six or seven command line incantations, learn C++ or whatever to correct compile errors.....
It is still a professional's tool or a toy from my point of view. I am a professional computer guy in the business since '69.
Trouble, a mistake or fun, your choice
I use it and it's quite good.
- Sw Usr
too bad I don't have mod points to mark this as FUNNY. We all know that Windows in the first and KDE in the second place only copied the GUI from the Mac. Period.
show up in technical forums all over Usenet. Here is a hint to make your life easier:
Be prepared to do some work on your own before asking questions - ones that have no doubt been asked countless times before - in a public forum.
Learn to use Google (and Google Groups). Learn to search text files so you don't *need* to read all 400 pages. You should also learn not to exaggerate.
If you aren't willing to put in the time to do a little research, and if you expect people to take their time to hold your hand when you can't be bothered to do said research, then be prepared to receive some unfriendly responses.
I provided help on various comp.* newsgroups for several years. I lurked extensively to absorb all the knowledge I could in the years before that. You know what? I learned a lot, helped a lot of people that had questions, and sometimes problems were resolved with the collaboration of several individuals. I also saw the rise of people like you who ask FAQs and get upset when someone replies with "read the FAQ". I don't spend much time on Usenet anymore.
Pick up a book at Borders or wherever and read it. If you can't buy one, go to a library. Make an effort.
I want to drag this out as long as possible. Bring me my protractor.
... using Mandrake 9.2 and there are some minor personal nitpicks for her:
1 - initial impression of Gnome was good, but she immediately picked up on a tendency to laggy-ness. If it continues to grate I'll have to look at alternative graphical managers (I can sell the availability of alternatives as a plus of course).
2 - her HP Jornada won't play with Linux so it looks like we'll have to keep the XP partition for the timebeing (suits me - I can use it for games that don't run under Wine...).
3 - the scanner is playing up so that's something I need to troubleshoot over the weekend. Doing this sort of project while working away during the week is a major pain BTW - telephone calls from frustrated g/f and nothing to be done for 3-4 days *isn't* a good selling point.
4 - she thinks the time it takes to boot into Linux is excessive.
However the major roadblock (possibly a deal-breaker) is the f*cked up OEM version of WinXP that gets shipped with Compaq boxen these days. What it means is that after installing Linux, any time you opt to boot into Windows (to export contacts from Exchange ready for Evolution fer instance) it spots that the MBR has been altered by the bootloader and initiates the 'Recovery for Morons' mode (meaningful explanation of what is going on? nada; option to flip into an 'I Know What I'm Doing' mode and tell it to STFU? nope). The only options, apart from aborting and going back to Linux, are where to Recover from (partition or DVD) and of course either process takes 10-15 minutes, zeroes your box back to factory settings (bang go any security patches, config changes, user settings and the like) and blows out the bootloader (so you have to go through the Mandrake installation routine to reinstate Linux again).
I gather that Compaq, or rather HP, are obliged to provide full installation media upon request; so that's the *other* thing I'm doing this weekend (beyond the valentines thang that is) and as soon as they arrive I'm doing a proper install and blitzing the recovery partition - I could care less about Compaq's warranty support...
I'm an obstinate SOB however and do this sort of thing for a living; if Linux-on-the-Desktop really gets some mass-market traction in the next year or two I can forsee whole swathes of the general public hitting this Windows Recovery Tango on recent vintage OEM machines and running screaming from the Penguin unless some primers that cover this issue are made a prominent part of the online resources.
Regards
Luke
PS
Another gripe I have with XP (only 1?) is the Simple Security Model forced upon you by the Home Edition. I gather that booting into Safe Mode gets you around this irritatingly idiotic example of MSoft's 'helpfulness' and makes the security tabs available within Windows Explorer, but the OEM-crippled piece of cr*p I have seems to think that Safe Mode isn't necessary now that you have their groovy Recovery feature. Anyone know how to get to it? Its not offered as an option during startup or shutdown at present.
#include witty_one_liner.h
While I'm not one to defend Windows just for the sake of defending Windows, it might be useful to know that Windows can do most of those as well, and no one else seems to be posting about it atm. So I will.m -not-keeping-track-of, and Opera are all available on Windows. Or you can just download the Google Toolbar. Ever heard of it?
Popups are the easiest thing to get of if you have the slightest intention of doing so; Mozilla, The-lite-version-of-Mozilla-whose-current-name-I'
Seperate bookmarks, backgrounds, etc., graphical logon, and fast user switching are all available on XP as well, and are quite easy to find/enable (hell, it sets up the multi-user + logon for you automatically during the install). Have you looked at all?
Your method is a somewhat novel way of getting people to use Linux, but not the most honest or helpful.
Work is punishment for failing to procrastinate effectively.
I think that where issues like installation are concerned, you should try Xandros, with SuSE a close second. Xandros is based on Debian, hence uses a much better packaging system, SuSE is a derivative of Red Hat a long way back, and so uses RPM, which is fairly unpleasant. Xandros puts a pretty face upon the underlying Debian system, it is not yet perfect but quite reasonable.
Of course if you get a full, comprehensive distro like SuSE Professional, there are so many applications supplied that you will not be wanting to load any new ones for a long while.....
I use several distros including Xandros 2 and SuSE 9.0. They are both OK, and easier to configure than most others. If you are inexperienced, best to avoid SuSE if you have an Nvidia graphics card, until they sort out a stupid, long-running problem with broken configuration utilities. Otherwise, SuSE has a lot more in the distro, but most of it might not get used. Count the text editors, you will see what I mean....
Java Web Start offers one-click downloading and installation on any OS or desktop. It works beautifully. The trouble is getting developers to use it. Most don't program in Java to being with, and if they do, they insist on native installation routines, etc.
Similarly, InstallAnywhere, the ubiquitous Windows installer, is actually a cross-paltform Java application. It allows a developer to plug in routines to install an app on any system -- Windows, Mac, or Unix/Linux. The trouble is getting developers to actually do that.
The bottom line is that the system isn't the issue. Cross-compatibility doesn't matter anymore. Developers only care about the proverbial "middle 50%" of the market, which is Windows. So that's all they bother to develop for.
Dude, Download red carpet from http://www.ximian.com It makes updating and installing software amazingly user friendly...
"Sic Semper Path of Least Resistance"
I'm sure someone will come out and insist I'm entirely FOS on this, but...
A lot of the modern Internet eye-candy out there has limited support under Linux. One big problem is QuickTime and WMA video formats. They have limited support i.e. you can download those files and (maybe) play them, but that's quite a few steps away from the inline-web-page proprietary-plugin-dependent hypermedia world that today's wannabe-digerati (hack spit) marketers intend -- and layusers expect.
Not to mention limited or no ability to run most third-party apps out there, especially games.
OTOH, the wide majority of other desktop and internet uses are simulable on Linux -- Gaim, OpenOffice, KSirc, whatnot.
Terrorists can attack freedom, but only Congress can destroy it.
We shouldn't overlook driver support. That was my main problem I had when I tried switching my main PC over to Linux. The following caused me trouble with a standard Slack 9.0 install: - Radeon 9800 / OpenGL - Turtle Beach Santa Cruz - HP LaserJet 6L (I know this is easy to setup, but I had trouble configuring CUPS) - mouse scroll wheel Should I have to hunt on Google for two weeks to get all these working properly? I wouldn't want to--and the majority of Windows users wouldn't either.
Next version of Windows will to have one, according to a recent article. That still doesn't solve your Linux problems, though.
What's amazing to me is how much more time I spend fixing Linux than I do Windows. I used to use Linux, but I switched to Windows about two years ago. I find that it is just so much easier to get stuff done.
--I'm blowing my mod points for posting a reply here, but: BULLSHIT.
--I tried putting my root admin-helper Bash scripts on Freshmeat a year or so ago, and they DENIED me. Not that I'm bitter, I have a Tripod site - just wasn't expecting that.
--And incidentally, Mr Troll, freshmeat is pretty easy to navigate. Not that hard to find $useful-software there.
.
== WolfriderV6 == I'm willing to admit that *I just might* be wrong... Are you??
This one was just released : Bitrock Installer You can find many others in Freshmeat. Software developers just need to start using them
case-sensitivity.
Unexpected behaviors (double-click titlebar is Shade not Maximize).
No drive letters (which is great once you adapt).
Every distro has different names for things (the Start button).
Unmount before eject.
As for the d/l software issue, buy her the full/pro distro, tell her to install any of the thousands of programs on the disk.
If a cow laughs, does milk come out of it's nose?
Wow.
Sometimes people read the fucking manual. Sometimes they still don't get it. That's why they ask.
That's why people like us eventually look down on people like you. Then we fire your elitist ass and pay someone without an attitude.
You should not try to force Linux on your girlfriend. I recommend that you put both Windose and Linux on her machine so that you can both use it. Couples that hack together, stay together. In addition, if you put only Linux on her system, she will be calling you all the time for help. I personally don't have time to teach my girlfriend how to use Linux.
James Wright
http://www.msstate.edu/~jww13/
Having your girlfriend call every five minutes asking how to do the most inane task. Linux isnt for someone that, how you say, doesn't know what BIOS stands for, for example.
Basic stuff:
1. Copy/Paste should work - it works haphazardly now.
Software installation:
1. Graphical installers and uninstallers. No rpm -i types.. Kinda like the Mozilla installer.
2. The installation of the software icons into the desktop needs polish - for instance, if I uninstall a software, the icons should disappear from the desktop; similarly when I install a software such as mozilla, the icon should appear on the desktop.
3. The installed software should be available on other user's desktops as well - again, this could be an option during installation - "Make available to all users / Make available to selected users / Only you".
Samba integration:
1. Stuff like SAMBA should come as standard since most users require access to SAMBA shares.
2. Samba needs to be integrated into apps well - for instance, it should be possible to open files over SAMBA in open office and what not - smb:\\server\filename should work with the appropriate login prompt popping up when necessary.
Device drivers:
1. Allow for loading of device drivers dynamically using an easier to use interface - choose a driver and click install.. and the right click the driver in the "hardware settings" screen to get a context sensitive menu with a setup option for the driver.
Configuration management:
1. Include stuff like libgda/libgnomedb as standard along with the database configuration tool. Include this in the "control panel".
2. Include stuff for configuration management like gconf - manage configuration using a single tool; the configuration could be saved across multple files using "exporter" plugins and read using "importer" plugins. Include an extensive API which all apps can use; get rid of the many configuration files lying all over the place; have the files in a single directory and utilizing a consistent naming scheme.
3. Support versioning of configurations - so that a user can rollback to a earlier more stable version if some configuration changes cause problems.
My ideas in brief consist of a commercial base OS that will work as a default OS, with openly available interfacing and a unified set of standards for developers to comply with. The main point is to find a balance between Windows and Linux. If this sounds dumb, then fine that's your opinion, but I'm sure that someone else out there has had similar ideas. I know it doesn't sound too different from the various distro's out there, but the differences will become apparent when I layout the basic specification on my journal in the future.
Thoughts please?
"Linux has no idea what orange juice is."
I have the same setup, or rather did- I finally got tired of the junk monitor and pitched it. looking to get a better monitor to work with my current one.
dual monitors worked fine for me, it's just a matter of setting up X correctly- I agree, it's a pain in the ass.
Looking for Book Reviews? Check out Literary Escapism.
In response to commentary about 'how to make linux better'
Windows has its place. It is for people who do not WANT to learn how to use a computer. It is for my grandma, so she can play freecell and online bingo. It is for businessmen who are being payed to conduct business, not learn a computer.
It is NOT something which should be emulated by a real operating system. It is NOT something linux should be competing against for marketshare.
WHY?
-FreeBSD, (one of?) the finest OS on the market has no emulation of windows; its users understand their role in the computing industry: the role of the elite. Those who have learned all they could from linux and continued to grow in the technical field.
-Linux will always have a marketshare: those who understand and want to understand computers. Those who are tired of being limited by windows (and its damn in-kernel processing of display... worst idea EVER!).
MOST IMPORTANTLY:
-Everything in linux is designed as it is FOR A REASON... comments like "linux needs a unified folder system, because linux is too hard to figure out" are responded to with Nietzschen rage and whifflebats.
--corrolary: it is 1000X easier to find [system components, program files, server configuration files, you NAME it] in Linux than it is in windows... go to its particular root directory subfolder... if you dont know which one that is, check online. not that hard: IF YOU TAKE THE TIME TO LEARN.
--corrolary: i have a whiffleball bat. not afraid to use it.
--corrolary: Linux is well designed. Windows is not. for this reason alone, windows will fall in the OS war... to my whiffleball bat...
whoa, its my old friend the flamebait bot. w00t!
"this is the gloaming"
radiohead
QBasic is included with MSWindows95 through MSWindows98SE. (I do not have a WinME CD for obvious reasons.) QBasic is not an option during install. The WIN98SE CD has QBASIC.EXE and QBASIC.HLP in the /TOOLS/OLDMSDOS directory. DELTREE, XCOPY, and HELP (for MSDOS commands) are also there.
---
I write most of my Java in Wordpad. I use Eclipse to check for improvements, but I have yet to become comfortable generating code with the IDE. I was using Notepad, but the lack of a Replace function made me convert.
- Isn't replaceSubstring() taught in Programming 101? Notepad is how old? And nobody at MS has the ability to add one simple control?
- java.lang.String does not have a replaceSubstring() either.
I use (text-based) vi for Unix and Linux. When I started with Unix, Emacs was new and was not guaranteed to be installed. I only wanted to learn one, so vi was the best choice.
I have yet to find a decent GUI text editor on Linux. Trying to delete and enter new text in config files drives me crazy. I usually open a terminal and use vi. The terminals have trouble with the DEL and BACKSPACE keys. There must be a better method.
I spend my life entertaining my brain.
Firstly, there is plenty of Linux software avaialbe for download. Secondly Linux distros come with a LOT of software - there is less need to download things to try them out, you have them on CD. Thirdly, Linux software tends to be a lot safer to try out: free (as in beer) stuff is largely open source and not goign to be spyware/adware/otherwise obnoxious.
they can't do this on Linux without some command line mucking about, compilation,
I have been using only Linux at home for the last two years (bar some software I needed for a course that I ran on my old windows PC), I ahve tried out plenty of software and I have never compiled anything, not once.