Ok I apologize. Should not have mentioned ruby at all in the grandparent.
Actually, what bothers me most about ruby is having to prefix variables with not-pronounceable characters like @ and $ -
As for flexibility, tough, I think python can be every bit as flexible as ruby, unless you are really determined to make your project rather unmaintainable. (you can't add behavior to he native numeric objects like in Ruby - but you can subclasses those and add the behavior to your own classes, for example).
Now, instead of spending energy arguing around which is better, I think I'd like to see a post of how ruby can be used in the original context - of multi-programing language projects. Maybe you could point out Ruby's strong points there? (do not misunderstand me, there are good posts on the other comments about lisp, perl, java and JVM sibling languages - a good one about Ruby would be nice)
Ah, now we are talking.:-) It is amazing as an over-enthusiastic post can draw people bashing you these days. Yes, you got me to the point - what really attracts me in Python is the clean syntax. And I concede I have not used it as an embedded language - you can see that despite it would be relevant in the context, I did not even mention it in my original post.
I rather tend to think of the python interpreter as being to large to be embedded - I just found out that i think projects the other way around: write the project in a very high level Language, and the core parts that need speed in C or C++. Embedding is a solution when you have a large project in these low level languages and want a higher level interface.
Actually, if one would ask me directly what language to embed in a C project, my first response would actually be Lua.
And for your part - in other usages than embedding, do not take the Language for its implementation - the other python interpreters, for.net, and java use those environments respectively for GC, for instance.
it is people who have exactly these ideas that I was addressing. For your sake, give it a check. Inclusive on the "performance" FUD - it is slow when compared with C or CPP, shure - but how much of your code needs to run at native speeds? And no, I am not saying that tehre are no parts of your code that need to run at native speed, but surely, that part about calling a toolkit library to draw windows and buttons could be a lot easier if you can just type what are you thinking instead of putting tens of casts for type of data, keeping track of allocated memory yourself, and so on.
And the whole point of my previous post is that no, it is not just like "many others"
Excuse me? Did I wrote "use python o write an OS core?" ? I did say: Use python to connect things, as it is everywhere! Connect things as diverse as cpp, java , and.net code with one same lanaguage - and use the same code for this (otherwise one might have to write a communication protocol for anr app three times over, a different language in each environment - this is he kind of thing Python spares you) I didn't sa that one should try to write parts needing high performance in python - I just said it can talk to whatever part of your application does the high performance, while you have to write consistently fewer and more readable lines of code to interface around it.
Funny that you wrote "plain flat WRONG" about my post, when most of what I mention there are facts, not suggestions, or speculations: the language _is_ available in the environments I mention, and can do what I've written. Yes, they are written in an enthusiastic and marketing like way -hundreds of applications:-), could've been "several applications" but = it is "hundreds" when you count KDE and WinComm enabled apps. Moreover, if i did any argumentation that is not a fact s that it would be the best solution for most of the connecting and high level code on projects involving multiple languages and you didn't mention any technology that might do part of the features I point there,
You need to go no further. Python gives you the Rosetta stone for a project combining any other languages you'd like.
It is a very high level development language, and does have a vast common library, able to "talk" tens of protocols, you can call directly any module compiled into a dynamic library with the CTypes module. Also, if your application or parts of it run in the Java VM, no problem, python is there in the form of "jython", enabling you to use this dynamic, multi paradigm and interactive language directly from inside the JVM, with all its standard library, plus full access to any java classes you have in there. Oh..you do you use.net? Ditto - there is ironpython! Ah, you need to exchange data from parents of your app in the jvm with native code in.CPP? Use libboost or ctyypes to interface python with the.cpp, and soem xmlrpc to talk with a module in the JVM (oh, it would take you 10, perhaps 12 lines of code to write two methods in python which use the standard library to talk back and forth between both running enviroments.
Plus, connectivity with the automation interface of hundreds of other software - including OpenOffice, GIMP, Inkscape, all of KDE software through DCOP (kde 3) and DBUS (KDE 4), easy communication to any windows software which does havea COMM interface - and, it even works under GNU/other unixes - just run your windows app and win32 python under the wine emulator (the apps "think" they are ont eh windoews, but sockets and network ports are on localhost across windows and native apps)
Anyway -- too much to try to write in such a shrot space. It obviously have all you are askign for and certainly goes beyond that.
And, pronably you don't know Python yourself , or you would not need to ask such a question - souyou might have the impression itr is a "script" language jsut like some dirty linear scripting tools around one have to sweat a lot of hacks to insert a "for" and a "if" statement. Not such. It is multi paradigm and de-bureaucratized, but it supports a full OO model, written in from scratch, not shoehorned in a later stage of the language like happened with PHP or Perl. Everything in Python is an object. Even integer numbers, and it can give you more flexibility with your classes and objects with features such as meta-classes, computed properties, and such than the majority of OO languages out there.
And before one says "ruby", just a thing: "readability counts"!
Oh yes? How about counting each time a shell script has to spawn a separate process and python can do the job inside it? And what when you stack together 5 such scripts?
Beyond maintainability, readability, sanity, one can also have some gains in speed and memory usage by using python;
I guess/.'rs aren't that excied about these news, or I am certain the legal link for the full PDF paper would have been posted already, as it lies right there in Google
I can't help but imagine which part of a breathlizer software could be a "trade secret"
<trade secret> /* #attention if this code falls in the wrong hands, we are doomed! */
reset_sensor(); turn_green_light_on() /* wait for sensor to make the reading */ sleep(2); turn_green_light_off(); sensor_reading = get_alcoolhol_sensor_value(); beep(); drunken_value = sensor_reading * CALIBRATION_CONSTANT; display(drunken_value); if (drunken_value > 0.5) { turn_Red_light_on(); beep_insanely(); } else {beep(); flash_green_light(); } </trade secret> Hah. I hope they have a patent on that, so they can be able to defend their valuable IP assets!!
Since we are talking about this,does any one is using or have any newer news on the molecular simulator NAMD on the CELL Processor? The official development stalled two years ago as its maintainer sinked into other projects, but I do actually help a team with a PS3 cluster which would be very interested in getting NAMD working under full load there.
Re:That marks my end of use for Python
on
Python 3.0 Released
·
· Score: 2, Insightful
Besides teh above remark of well thoguth migration paths - it is importante to remakr that support for python 2.x has not ended in any way.
As far as Iam aware, the recomendation is to keep working with python 2.6 - and use the py2to3 script to regularly to make 3.0 releases if you you can (i.e. if your dependencies have 3.0 versions already).
No need to worry about anything, this will be a smooth, years long, transition. Chances are we will even see a python 2.7 before 2.x is officially deprecated.
You insensitive clod! It is obviously a Space Traveler Cosmic Ray Augmented Aluminium^wTitanium-Eater Transgenic Earth-Reentry-Able Giant Spider Overlord of Doom Overlord.
Seriously! Why botter with programing APIs whose owners don't wnat your programing for then at all?
Start porgraming only for APIs for which you have the public source code available,, in plain sight, nad not hidden in years-old usenet posts. If the docuemtnation is not enough, you can always check the source code, and help improve the documentation yourself.
I see nosense in adding value (i.e. contributing working code) to a system whose owner does not want me to add value to to start with.
(btw, if you didná get a clue, that almost excludes *microsoft* - though I e heard they e published the API's on some of their latest hyped-up stuff, so that their drones at Novell can create a multi-platform implementation for them)
For me it happens that my 0.1% share of service outtage maps directly to the functionality of sending e-mails?
I get an "invalid from address" whenever I try to send a message through gmail's interface. The "support" for this is almost impossible to find out, and there has been no feedback from my complaint there. And yes, I've tried several settings that could affect the "from" address already (and it worked up to 2 weeks ago)
You only forget that you are not supposed to be doing that. The very "license" (and I use parenthesis because it is so far from a license the y actually coined another term to call it) of windows say you can't hack it - SO, no neither XP, neither other proprietary things are meant to be tweaked , and the fact they can illegally tweaked don't make then better. They only make you a trespasser.
That would giver yuou "windows 9", -since you start from 3.
But if one coutns the attempts to change tis look and feel, sicne windows 3: 3) windows 3, 3.1, 3.11 4) nt 4, win95, win98 win me 5) winXtraPain 6) Win Hasta la Vista 7) win 7
""" I decided to check it out only to find that the first picture was actually of my college campus, Kutztown University """
So, this is the new quantum-photographic tecnology in Google's Geo's Eye: They had a picture that was potentially from anywhere on Earth. In the moment the first observed downloaded it, it immediately collapsed to your location.
It can't be used on living organisms as it causes instant cancer and death. Sorry, Bob.
Actually, from TFA:
So bright was the flash of light that the sample [bacteria] was vaporized, but not before both the scattered object beam and the reference beams from the URA had been recorded.
Indeed, as one can see, the part of "instant death" is quite accurate.
Slashdot Mirror
Ok
I apologize.
Should not have mentioned ruby at all in the grandparent.
Actually, what bothers me most about ruby is having to prefix variables with not-pronounceable characters like @ and $ -
As for flexibility, tough, I think python can be every bit as flexible as ruby, unless you are really determined to make your project rather unmaintainable. (you can't add behavior to he native numeric objects like in Ruby - but you can subclasses those and add the behavior to your own classes, for example).
Now, instead of spending energy arguing around which is better, I think I'd like to see a post of how ruby can be used in the original context - of multi-programing language projects. Maybe you could point out Ruby's strong points there? (do not misunderstand me, there are good posts on the other comments about lisp, perl, java and JVM sibling languages - a good one about Ruby would be nice)
Ah, now we are talking. :-)
It is amazing as an over-enthusiastic post can draw people bashing you these days.
Yes, you got me to the point - what really attracts me in Python is the clean syntax.
And I concede I have not used it as an embedded language - you can see that despite it would be relevant in the context, I did not even mention it in my original post.
I rather tend to think of the python interpreter as being to large to be embedded - I just found out that i think projects the other way around: write the project in a very high level Language, and the core parts that need speed in C or C++. Embedding is a solution when you have a large project in these low level languages and want a higher level interface.
Actually, if one would ask me directly what language to embed in a C project, my first response would actually be Lua.
And for your part - in other usages than embedding, do not take the Language for its implementation - the other python interpreters, for .net, and java use those environments respectively for GC, for instance.
Hey pal,
it is people who have exactly these ideas that I was addressing. For your sake, give it a check. Inclusive on the "performance" FUD -
it is slow when compared with C or CPP, shure - but how much of your code needs to run at native speeds? And no, I am not saying that tehre are no parts of your code that need to run at native speed, but surely, that part about calling a toolkit library to draw windows and buttons could be a lot easier if you can just type what are you thinking instead of putting tens of casts for type of data, keeping track of allocated memory yourself, and so on.
And the whole point of my previous post is that no, it is not just like "many others"
Excuse me? .net code with one same lanaguage - and use the same code for this (otherwise one might have to write a communication protocol for anr app three times over, a different language in each environment - this is he kind of thing Python spares you)
Did I wrote "use python o write an OS core?" ?
I did say: Use python to connect things, as it is everywhere! Connect things as diverse as cpp, java , and
I didn't sa that one should try to write parts needing high performance in python - I just said it can talk to whatever part of your application does the high performance, while you have to write consistently fewer and more readable lines of code to interface around it.
Funny that you wrote "plain flat WRONG" about my post, when most of what I mention there are facts, not suggestions, or speculations: the language _is_ available in the environments I mention, and can do what I've written. Yes, they are written in an enthusiastic and marketing like way -hundreds of applications :-), could've been "several applications" but = it is "hundreds" when you count KDE and WinComm enabled apps.
Moreover, if i did any argumentation that is not a fact s that it would be the best solution for most of the connecting and high level code on projects involving multiple languages and you didn't mention any technology that might do part of the features I point there,
You need to go no further.
Python gives you the Rosetta stone for a project combining any other languages you'd like.
It is a very high level development language, and does have a vast common library, able to "talk" tens of protocols, you can call directly any module compiled into a dynamic library with the CTypes module. .net? Ditto - there is ironpython! .CPP? Use libboost or ctyypes to interface python with the .cpp, and soem xmlrpc to talk with a module in the JVM (oh, it would take you 10, perhaps 12 lines of code to write two methods in python which use the standard library to talk back and forth between both running enviroments.
Also, if your application or parts of it run in the Java VM, no problem, python is there in the form of "jython", enabling you to use this dynamic, multi paradigm and interactive language directly from inside the JVM, with all its standard library, plus full access to any java classes you have in there. Oh..you do you use
Ah, you need to exchange data from parents of your app in the jvm with native code in
Plus, connectivity with the automation interface of hundreds of other software - including OpenOffice, GIMP, Inkscape, all of KDE software through DCOP (kde 3) and DBUS (KDE 4), easy communication to any windows software which does havea COMM interface - and, it even works under GNU/other unixes - just run your windows app and win32 python under the wine emulator (the apps "think" they are ont eh windoews, but sockets and network ports are on localhost across windows and native apps)
Anyway -- too much to try to write in such a shrot space. It obviously have all you are askign for and certainly goes beyond that.
And, pronably you don't know Python yourself , or you would not need to ask such a question - souyou might have the impression itr is a "script" language jsut like some dirty linear scripting tools around one have to sweat a lot of hacks to insert a "for" and a "if" statement. Not such. It is multi paradigm and de-bureaucratized, but it supports a full OO model, written in from scratch, not shoehorned in a later stage of the language like happened with PHP or Perl. Everything in Python is an object. Even integer numbers, and it can give you more flexibility with your classes and objects with features such as meta-classes, computed properties, and such than the majority of OO languages out there.
And before one says "ruby", just a thing: "readability counts"!
Oh yes?
How about counting each time a shell script has to spawn a separate process and python can do the job inside it?
And what when you stack together 5 such scripts?
Beyond maintainability, readability, sanity, one can also have some gains in speed and memory usage by using python;
I guess /.'rs aren't that excied about these news, or I am certain the legal link for the full PDF paper would have been posted already, as it lies right there in Google
I can't help but imagine which part of a breathlizer software could be a "trade secret"
<trade secret>
/* #attention if this code falls in the wrong hands, we are doomed! */
reset_sensor();
turn_green_light_on()
/* wait for sensor to make the reading */
sleep(2);
turn_green_light_off();
sensor_reading = get_alcoolhol_sensor_value();
beep();
drunken_value = sensor_reading * CALIBRATION_CONSTANT;
display(drunken_value);
if (drunken_value > 0.5)
{ turn_Red_light_on();
beep_insanely();
}
else
{beep();
flash_green_light();
}
</trade secret>
Hah. I hope they have a patent on that, so they can be able to defend their valuable IP assets!!
Since we are talking about this,does any one is using or have any newer news on the molecular simulator NAMD on the CELL Processor? The official development stalled two years ago as its maintainer sinked into other projects, but I do actually help a team with a PS3 cluster which would be very interested in getting NAMD working under full load there.
Easy! And I bet it can reach more than 5 meters.
Besides teh above remark of well thoguth migration paths - it is importante to remakr that support for python 2.x has not ended in any way.
As far as Iam aware, the recomendation is to keep working with python 2.6 - and use the py2to3 script to regularly to make 3.0 releases if you you can (i.e. if your dependencies have 3.0 versions already).
No need to worry about anything, this will be a smooth, years long, transition. Chances are we will even see a python 2.7 before 2.x is officially deprecated.
Just there alogn with all the other versions
You download the .tart.gz or .tar.bz2 source packages and build it. Took less than 15 minutes on my machinne
You insensitive clod!
It is obviously a Space Traveler Cosmic Ray Augmented Aluminium^wTitanium-Eater Transgenic Earth-Reentry-Able Giant Spider Overlord of Doom Overlord.
Seriously!
Why botter with programing APIs whose owners don't wnat your programing for then at all?
Start porgraming only for APIs for which you have the public source code available,, in plain sight, nad not hidden in years-old usenet posts. If the docuemtnation is not enough, you can always check the source code, and help improve the documentation yourself.
I see nosense in adding value (i.e. contributing working code) to a system whose owner does not want me to add value to to start with.
(btw, if you didná get a clue, that almost excludes *microsoft* - though I e heard they e published the API's on some of their latest hyped-up stuff, so that their drones at Novell can create a multi-platform implementation for them)
"will be"??
Oh well,
We've been warning you for years, but ahh..we are just a bunch of "free software fascists".
Just hope these pratices does not get widespread just quite yet.
For me it happens that my 0.1% share of service outtage maps directly to the functionality of sending e-mails?
I get an "invalid from address" whenever I try to send a message through gmail's interface. The "support" for this is almost impossible to find out, and there has been no feedback from my complaint there. And yes, I've tried several settings that could affect the "from" address already (and it worked up to 2 weeks ago)
You only forget that you are not supposed to be doing that. The very "license" (and I use parenthesis because it is so far from a license the y actually coined another term to call it) of windows say you can't hack it -
SO, no neither XP, neither other proprietary things are meant to be tweaked , and the fact they can illegally tweaked don't make then better. They only make you a trespasser.
That would giver yuou "windows 9", -since you start from 3.
But if one coutns the attempts to change tis look and feel, sicne windows 3:
3) windows 3, 3.1, 3.11
4) nt 4, win95, win98 win me
5) winXtraPain
6) Win Hasta la Vista
7) win 7
'nough said.
""" I decided to check it out only to find that the first picture was actually of my college campus, Kutztown University """
So, this is the new quantum-photographic tecnology in Google's Geo's Eye: They had a picture that was potentially from anywhere on Earth. In the moment the first observed downloaded it, it immediately collapsed to your location.
Just decline.
You will be in the same position as if they had never approached you in the first place.
On the other hand, you might approach their so feared competition, and continue your open work, at a profit, for them.
It is python, with python bindings for multimedia. It will run wherever you want.
> We just have to draw lots of names to account for people who won't come.
Nah. Just make it a paid-for thing. Almost anyone would attend. :-)
btw. nice idea, indeed.
It can't be used on living organisms as it causes instant cancer and death. Sorry, Bob.
Actually, from TFA:
So bright was the flash of light that the sample [bacteria] was vaporized, but not before both the scattered object beam and the reference beams from the URA had been recorded.
Indeed, as one can see, the part of "instant death" is quite accurate.