Do you figure that Linux should just pick a default window manager now and build upon that to allow a seamless interface from those coming from Windows XP to Linux?
I think the KDE/Gnome unification project is a step in that direction (IMHO the right step). Next I'd like to see a list of basic applications that make up the base Linux distribution. NOTHING FANCY. Windows has things like the Notepad, Imaging and the Calculator.
What do you think those applications do? Are they easy to use? Wouldn't just about every user be able to figure out what they are and how you use them?
With Linux Notepad is called VI and in the 4 years I've used Linux I still haven't figured out how to use it. So the first thing I do is install Nano, which I know to do because I've installed Debian (which I uninstalled because the tulip driver that came with it at the time was not compatible with my Linksys ethernet card, which requires the tulip driver, but like a different tulip driver). Of course I need to install Ncurses first because Nano wont install without it. But my system comes with Ncurses, its fairly common. But its the wrong version. So before I edit I install both.
Seems like a lot of work just because the average distribution doesn't think like a light load computer user.
Simple, useful applications like Nano (based on my old good friend, Pico!) are fairly common. It shouldn't be THAT difficult to put together a short list of basic applications that would define the base Linux operating system. Name them SANELY (Nano sounds cute, but it needs to sound something like what it is). Include command line applications and X applications. KISS, but cover your bases. Not with extra apps, just look at Windows if you need to know what your average new user needs. Plan on something going wrong, "you don't need Nano, VidConfigureX will configure that for you!" just doesn't cut it.
Linux configuration is getting pretty close to standardized, why does every distribution contain a custom tool set? I'd like to learn this once and I cant see a good technical reason that I can't. Make one skinnable, so distros can make it fit nicely into their vision, but make it consistent.
Adopt a single installation scheme. Everyone knows VISE and it does the trick. Custom packaging is great, their will always be someone smarter out their with a better way. But I'm a big fan of the Loki installer, because it works and because it looks good and makes me feel like I know what's going on. Those things are important.
I don't think any single thing I've mentioned doesn't already exist. I just doesn't exist in any one place. That's ironic because where talking about market penetration without even talking advantage of what we've already got.
Give me a basic distro with what I've mentioned above. Add a package management system like portage and unite Gnome and KDE and you've got a desktop revolution.
Inconsistent/Incomprehensible configuration tools (where talking about new users, not computer science students).
Software installation problems.
Driver inavailability/incompatability.
Inconsistent hardware detection.
General usability issues.
Overwhelming (and unfriendly) selection of applications.
I've been using Linux for a least 4 years now exclusively. And I'm getting more and more perplexed by this slated push into mainstream.
I just don't see that its ready. Of course some distrobutions get some things right and others get some. But not all things in one place yet.
Give me Gentoo with Mandrake autoconfiguration and Kudzu auto detection and KDE and Gnome compatibility with some good/consistent configuration utillities and I'd go nuts.
Thank you, well put. It always seemed weird to me that we get so hung up on our ability to think, its like we forget we are just made out of matter, like everything else.
I wouldn't mind if these where just theological or philosophical discussions, but they usually masquerade as scientific arguments. God science?
If Microsoft made the source available for their bundled software you'd be right. But they don't, they include poorly/uncompletely documented API's and competition killing applications, I think thats sort of the difference.
Man, whats wrong with your computer? I've been using Linux since 2.2 and I don't remember having trouble listening to music. I agree with your not integrated into the system point, but...um, you wouldn't just be talking out of your ass?
Placing restrictions upon any technology hobby in the name of "combating terrorism" is folly of the highest order and constitutes blindingly stupid public policy.
Ya, and? We are going to have to ride this one out, but to be honest this administration has really raised the bar of "folly of the highest order" and this one just doesn't pass. I mean its dumb, but just like dumb, dumb. Sorry mate.
"Accordingly, we are currently reevaluating our relationship with the SCO Group," Seibt continued. "That said, we want to very clearly and unequivocally voice our support of the ideals and goals of UnitedLinux and the Linux community."
Is sort of like saying, "we love you, but we're not *in* love with you."
...you don't just pop in a CD and stare at pretty pictures for 30 minutes, then reboot straight into X and start browsing the web.
This is why Linux isn't ready for the masses, it seems like there are still a lot of people with this type of outlook.
Right now their are two kinds of distro's:
Good
Easy
Both have their place and welcomed usefulness, but for the time being they are fairly mutually exclusive. Gentoo is not for newbies, its for people who like computers and sexy operating systems.
That's fine that Gentoo isn't a plug-n-play distro, lets just not confuse things.
Either you meant to be modded +3 funny or you didn't read the article. They mean Talent-Management in the business sense, like Rick Marcelli here. You want a good agent, so you'd sign with Sony and they would manage you.
"...and
not the erosion of constitutional rights (and maybe copyright law, just for good measure)."
Should have read:
"If I where going to ask that something be reexamined in light of recent events, it would be foreign policy
and the erosion of constitutional rights (and maybe copyright law, just for good measure)."
I complain but I do not blame the government for not being able to predict 9/11. Your argument may be valid for some, but from *my* perspective it seems more like flamebait.
A) I don't want a Big Brother style government.
B) Without a All Seeing All Knowing government sometimes bad things will happen.
C) With a All Seeing All Knowing government sometimes bad things will happen.
If I where going to ask that something be reexamined in light of recent events, it would be foreign policy and not the erosion of constitutional rights (and maybe copyright law, just for good measure).
I appreciate your response. But I feel like you are just reiterating why you choose to belong to your particular camp.
I think my point is relevant. It seems BSD users have a certain pride regarding their license of choice (of course GPL'er can relate to that). I would imagine BSD users might even protect their chosen license should it be abused (its permissive, but its still a license, right?). So this could easily be either of us defending our chosen camp.
On the other hand, If you choose GPL, you are aiming to restrict people's rights, so you need to be ready to be a policeman if people try and operate outside those restrictions.
The two camps are ideologically different. That doesn't make one more right then the other.
Misusing the GPL like this is akin to me taking your BSD project and forcing you to GPL it. I don't think you'd be happy.
Almost right on the nose! Chewing is one of the funniest things I have ever witnessed (spitoon?) and if it goes on in the cities I can guarantee you its happening without my permission.
I think your thinking about "light" cigarette or the "capri". It was fun watching friends parents smoking those dainty little cigarette one after the other in the 80's..and they gave them away for free in magazines (well, as a coupon)..
Its hard to tell if your kidding or not. But "idiot crowd" would seem a little overstated. I was a smoker at one point and I can tell you from *my* experience giving up smoking was *just* as hard as giving up nicotine. If I had a choice which on to give up first, I would have skipped the patch an gone for this cigarette.
I quit smoking, finally. But its my opinion that with something like this available it could have been years earlier.
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What do you think those applications do? Are they easy to use? Wouldn't just about every user be able to figure out what they are and how you use them?
With Linux Notepad is called VI and in the 4 years I've used Linux I still haven't figured out how to use it. So the first thing I do is install Nano, which I know to do because I've installed Debian (which I uninstalled because the tulip driver that came with it at the time was not compatible with my Linksys ethernet card, which requires the tulip driver, but like a different tulip driver). Of course I need to install Ncurses first because Nano wont install without it. But my system comes with Ncurses, its fairly common. But its the wrong version. So before I edit I install both.
Seems like a lot of work just because the average distribution doesn't think like a light load computer user.
Simple, useful applications like Nano (based on my old good friend, Pico!) are fairly common. It shouldn't be THAT difficult to put together a short list of basic applications that would define the base Linux operating system. Name them SANELY (Nano sounds cute, but it needs to sound something like what it is). Include command line applications and X applications. KISS, but cover your bases. Not with extra apps, just look at Windows if you need to know what your average new user needs. Plan on something going wrong, "you don't need Nano, VidConfigureX will configure that for you!" just doesn't cut it.
Linux configuration is getting pretty close to standardized, why does every distribution contain a custom tool set? I'd like to learn this once and I cant see a good technical reason that I can't. Make one skinnable, so distros can make it fit nicely into their vision, but make it consistent.
Adopt a single installation scheme. Everyone knows VISE and it does the trick. Custom packaging is great, their will always be someone smarter out their with a better way. But I'm a big fan of the Loki installer, because it works and because it looks good and makes me feel like I know what's going on. Those things are important.
I don't think any single thing I've mentioned doesn't already exist. I just doesn't exist in any one place. That's ironic because where talking about market penetration without even talking advantage of what we've already got.
Give me a basic distro with what I've mentioned above. Add a package management system like portage and unite Gnome and KDE and you've got a desktop revolution.
Until then its just boys and toys.
- Inconsistent user interface.
- Inconsistent/Incomprehensible configuration tools (where talking about new users, not computer science students).
- Software installation problems.
- Driver inavailability/incompatability.
- Inconsistent hardware detection.
- General usability issues.
- Overwhelming (and unfriendly) selection of applications.
I've been using Linux for a least 4 years now exclusively. And I'm getting more and more perplexed by this slated push into mainstream.I just don't see that its ready. Of course some distrobutions get some things right and others get some. But not all things in one place yet.
Give me Gentoo with Mandrake autoconfiguration and Kudzu auto detection and KDE and Gnome compatibility with some good/consistent configuration utillities and I'd go nuts.
Like your gonna give that trust to a lawyer. What have you been smoking? ;-)
Thank you, well put. It always seemed weird to me that we get so hung up on our ability to think, its like we forget we are just made out of matter, like everything else.
I wouldn't mind if these where just theological or philosophical discussions, but they usually masquerade as scientific arguments. God science?
Is a wooden box a box or is a metal box a box? Boiware, silicon, data, what's the difference?
;-)
Sounds more like a theology discussion.
If Microsoft made the source available for their bundled software you'd be right. But they don't, they include poorly/uncompletely documented API's and competition killing applications, I think thats sort of the difference.
Man, whats wrong with your computer? I've been using Linux since 2.2 and I don't remember having trouble listening to music. I agree with your not integrated into the system point, but...um, you wouldn't just be talking out of your ass?
Your most revealing statement: This is why Linux isn't ready for the masses, it seems like there are still a lot of people with this type of outlook.
Right now their are two kinds of distro's:
- Good
- Easy
Both have their place and welcomed usefulness, but for the time being they are fairly mutually exclusive. Gentoo is not for newbies, its for people who like computers and sexy operating systems.That's fine that Gentoo isn't a plug-n-play distro, lets just not confuse things.
'As Linux binary included' too. Its just a point of clarification. 'Works with Wine(x)' is the usual way to put it.
Either you meant to be modded +3 funny or you didn't read the article. They mean Talent-Management in the business sense, like Rick Marcelli here. You want a good agent, so you'd sign with Sony and they would manage you.
Should have read:
I complain but I do not blame the government for not being able to predict 9/11. Your argument may be valid for some, but from *my* perspective it seems more like flamebait.
A) I don't want a Big Brother style government.
B) Without a All Seeing All Knowing government sometimes bad things will happen.
C) With a All Seeing All Knowing government sometimes bad things will happen.
If I where going to ask that something be reexamined in light of recent events, it would be foreign policy and not the erosion of constitutional rights (and maybe copyright law, just for good measure).
I think my point is relevant. It seems BSD users have a certain pride regarding their license of choice (of course GPL'er can relate to that). I would imagine BSD users might even protect their chosen license should it be abused (its permissive, but its still a license, right?). So this could easily be either of us defending our chosen camp.
Is just bait and I wont bite.
Thanks for you response though.
If you where making a Honda what three line part of the code would have been stolen from Ford?
The two camps are ideologically different. That doesn't make one more right then the other. Misusing the GPL like this is akin to me taking your BSD project and forcing you to GPL it. I don't think you'd be happy.
Almost right on the nose! Chewing is one of the funniest things I have ever witnessed (spitoon?) and if it goes on in the cities I can guarantee you its happening without my permission.
Thank you Doctor Kevorkian. I live on the west coast, in a C-I-T-Y. Sometimes I forget that people still take "chew" serious.. My bad.
Pfffft! Hobits.
Are you talking about "erotic" fiction or caffeine?
I think your thinking about "light" cigarette or the "capri". It was fun watching friends parents smoking those dainty little cigarette one after the other in the 80's..and they gave them away for free in magazines (well, as a coupon)..
The other new invention: smokeless tobacco! Mmmmmm good!
No: worst case scenario is you see a guy wearing two or three patches, chain smoking 4 to 6 packs of these a day.
Its hard to tell if your kidding or not. But "idiot crowd" would seem a little overstated. I was a smoker at one point and I can tell you from *my* experience giving up smoking was *just* as hard as giving up nicotine. If I had a choice which on to give up first, I would have skipped the patch an gone for this cigarette.
I quit smoking, finally. But its my opinion that with something like this available it could have been years earlier.