Wake up, people of America. Light pollution is causing considerable damage to our planet. I invite you to see the meteor shower next week, turn all your lights off. And you don't need drugs to appreciate *that* (just to enhance it).
Yeah, it's pretty clear the name is on purpose considering if you just read the first letters, it simply reads MATIX so they obviously did spend quite a bit of time to make it sound stupid.
I've read the article very carefully and I've also looked at the people who wrote it...
Real-world benchmarks is a serious matter, I don't even know why this article made its way into/.
It's rather obvious that those people were not familiar with CPU optimizations and were not thorough with the benchmarking considering they didn't even bother to check for the version/revision of the base package of the distros they were working with even though they do admit that even minor revisions play a considerable role with performance.
1) What are the version/revisions of GCC on those machines? A package compiled and optimized with GCC 3.3 or even the 3.4 beta will obviously offer much better performance than an old deprecated gcc 3.2 that will be installed by gentoo by default if you haven't set up your ACCEPT_KEYWORDS
2) What hard-drive optimization did they set-up? Distros like Mandrake, Debian or Redhat set up HDParm optimizations after the first install, gentoo barely does... That would already make a big difference while opening a 32,000 lines spreadsheet...
3) What are the versions/minor revisions of the Gnome window manager on all those boxes? and GTK? Those packages provide the controls and rendering for Gnumeric... having any difference in these is not fair-play either... (try to install the same version of Gnumeris on a redhat 9.0 and a redhat 7.2 and see if the performance is the same)
To get back on the example of the sports-car race, this is kind of like benchmarking a porche and a ferrari, but you put diesel in the ferrari and forget to inflate your tires...
Basically, if you don't have experience using gentoo on a system for a while and know how to optimize your system, don't go and say that the optimizations don't work... they work perfectly well for me but I couldn't see a difference in my first 2 weeks of using gentoo... it's something you have to learn... you can't just install it and pretend the distro will self-optimize for you...it's not even supposed to.
Something I always wondered is... Since Microsoft products are all closed source, who the hell would ever find out if Microsoft was using GPLed code in any of their products?
AFAIK, there's really no way to tell... for all I know, they could have been using GPL code for quite a while and no one would ever notice.
Also, I don't know what CowboyNeal is thinking but if Microsoft deploys linux in a lab, it's most likely to demonstrate that they can break it or that their products are superior or simply to find more information about what they're up against... I seriously doubt the entire management team at Microsoft got hammered one night and decided to help out the linux community by submitting patches to their only real competitor...
I mean come on... it's like BMW helping out GMC and teaching them how to build cars... not really a business model.
So anyway, let's be realistic instead of hoping Microsoft will port all their products to Open Source, submit patches to help out linux, and offer free training to all customers wanting to "upgrade" to MS-Linux...
I'm assuming that you *are* refering to the latest OpenOffice that this article is here to talk about right?
I mean, it's a little quick to do benchmarks IMO, but when I fire up OO.o 1.1 beta2 on this box, it's just pretty darn fast compared to the old 1.0.2 and 1.0.3.
It's still slower than MS-Office on Windows but MS-Office emulated runs a lot slower here as well.
Also let's not forget that the reason why OO.o is so slow is because it relies in technologies that offer poor performance in order to provide true cross-platform applications...
OpenOffice is getting a lot better but I don't see them catching up with features, speed and interface in the next 5 years anyway, however, it's just "Good Enough For Me" (tm)
We live in a changing world... Today, the first bug-free software has seen the light... let me introduce you to... NADA: http://www.bernardbelanger.com/computing/NaDa/
Simple... it does nothing, but it does it very well...
Definitely worth a try... It works on all platforms... (windows, unix, linux, mac os, osx, embeded platforms, amiga, beos, etc...) and always does exactly what you expect it to!
I doubt the parent would have been modded down as Troll if I had said GENTOO SUCKS NUTS!!! But yeah say something about god-forsaken-debian on/. and get flamed.
Debian is better for corp usage then the "corp" distros.
So I can just call 1-800-DEBIAN4ME and tell them xyz won't run and my clients are yelling at me and they'll take a look at it and help me fix the problem?
Does that also mean I can take my well-earned vacation in August and if there's a problem with any of the servers, my boss can call 1-800-DEBIAN4ME and tell them there's a problem and they'll try to fix it for him?
You're right... it is pretty cool
oh..wait...
Re:Don't mod me down...
on
PHP 5 Beta 1
·
· Score: 1
Either it will be compatible or there will be a Zend Optimizer 2.
Either way, considering all the Zend optimizer does is cache the compiled code, I don't think the versiion of the zend-engine matters all that much... it should be pretty easy for them to get a newer version for php5.
Re:Don't mod me down...
on
PHP 5 Beta 1
·
· Score: 2, Informative
Not natively (yet) but there are several tools that do this for PHP, such as the Zend Optimizer or the popular PHP Accelerator (PHPA) http://www.php-accelerator.co.uk/
None taken... it wasn't actually mis-spelled but a plain typo. And I'm not from Boston nor have I ever been around Boston so I learned something today... yay
That's okay though... distcc will still help and make things a little faster...
Right now at home, I only have a Celeron 500 w/320Mb of RAM as my primary workstation and a PII 400 w/320Mb RAM and 120Gb HDD as a server and I'll be getting a new XP 3000+ 1Gb RAM at the end of the summer, then I'll be using the 2 other boxes as a compile farm and my current workstation will be transformed into a gigantic CCache so I never have to compile anything more than once:)
To list installed packages, there are some tools that will do that for you... I would just do this:
ls -R/var/db/pkg/ | grep ':'
And for the kernel compile, it really *is* a walk in the pack... but don't forget there are new emerging technologies that make installing KDE, X and mozilla a walk in the pack too...
For example, DistCC is a cross-compiler that allows you to distribute your compiling over multiple boxes... those boxes can be running any distro that has the same compiler and libc running on it...
We (at work) use the old boxes on our network as a compile farm and it works darn well... we have 2 Athlon XP-2400 w/1Gb of ram for the workstations and 3 older machines that help out with compiling... We can get all these packages installed in a few hours...
Another utility is CCache... it's basically a caching utility that caches your compiles on-the-fly so if you emerge a large package again, your computer will only have to compile the parts of the source that have changes... this saves hours when upgrading packages...
I know about metamoderation. What I meant was to moderate them as "Funny" for example... Metamoderation is only to make sure moderators don't screw up too much...
That doesn't mean anything if you don't know what their upgrading scheme is like...
Also, remember that it includes a lot of proprietary software such as CrossOver Office, CrossOver Plugins, StarOffice and probably more... so that has to be counted in the price too.
I'm not familiar with the licensing pricing scheme of Microsoft but I'm pretty sure Windows XP corporate + Office XP isn't all that cheap either.
I believe the version of StarOffice included is the old one everyone has already tried and that OpenOffice is based on... am I right?
AFAIK, StarOffice is launching a beta program sometime soon to test their newest product that is supposed to be a whole lot better but that's all the info I have...
Also after reading the review, I was wondering why in the world a corporate employee would ever try to install the Ximian desktop on his work Suse box... I mean... this distribution is targeted at non-unix/linux users right... how would they even know about the Ximian desktop?
If you lived where I do (at the border), you would know by now that "the only reason the US haven't annexed Canada outright" is simply because we hold you guys by the balls... Your economy just wouldn't work out on your own... If you think the US has all the energy/oil/resources/manufacturing facilities for everything because you guys are the kings of the world, you're in for a big surprise because it just ain't so.
Slashdot Mirror
Don't ask Slashdot... just go ask your lawyer... I'm pretty darn sure it's a lot safer :)
I'm really addicted to slashdot and I think it's really great but I wouldn't trust it with my freedom or my academic life.
Wake up, people of America.
Light pollution is causing considerable damage to our planet.
I invite you to see the meteor shower next week, turn all your lights off.
And you don't need drugs to appreciate *that* (just to enhance it).
Thank you Springfield!
Lisa S.
Yeah, it's pretty clear the name is on purpose considering if you just read the first letters, it simply reads MATIX so they obviously did spend quite a bit of time to make it sound stupid.
Of course I do.
The point being... very lame to hide under the AC just so you don't get modded down for asking mods to mod someone else down...
Thuth is... no one cares what you think so take your lame paranoid freak ideas up your colon, thank you very much.
Says the Anonymous Coward...
I've read the article very carefully and I've also looked at the people who wrote it...
/.
Real-world benchmarks is a serious matter, I don't even know why this article made its way into
It's rather obvious that those people were not familiar with CPU optimizations and were not thorough with the benchmarking considering they didn't even bother to check for the version/revision of the base package of the distros they were working with even though they do admit that even minor revisions play a considerable role with performance.
1) What are the version/revisions of GCC on those machines? A package compiled and optimized with GCC 3.3 or even the 3.4 beta will obviously offer much better performance than an old deprecated gcc 3.2 that will be installed by gentoo by default if you haven't set up your ACCEPT_KEYWORDS
2) What hard-drive optimization did they set-up? Distros like Mandrake, Debian or Redhat set up HDParm optimizations after the first install, gentoo barely does... That would already make a big difference while opening a 32,000 lines spreadsheet...
3) What are the versions/minor revisions of the Gnome window manager on all those boxes? and GTK? Those packages provide the controls and rendering for Gnumeric... having any difference in these is not fair-play either... (try to install the same version of Gnumeris on a redhat 9.0 and a redhat 7.2 and see if the performance is the same)
To get back on the example of the sports-car race, this is kind of like benchmarking a porche and a ferrari, but you put diesel in the ferrari and forget to inflate your tires...
Basically, if you don't have experience using gentoo on a system for a while and know how to optimize your system, don't go and say that the optimizations don't work... they work perfectly well for me but I couldn't see a difference in my first 2 weeks of using gentoo... it's something you have to learn... you can't just install it and pretend the distro will self-optimize for you...it's not even supposed to.
Something I always wondered is...
Since Microsoft products are all closed source, who the hell would ever find out if Microsoft was using GPLed code in any of their products?
AFAIK, there's really no way to tell... for all I know, they could have been using GPL code for quite a while and no one would ever notice.
Also, I don't know what CowboyNeal is thinking but if Microsoft deploys linux in a lab, it's most likely to demonstrate that they can break it or that their products are superior or simply to find more information about what they're up against... I seriously doubt the entire management team at Microsoft got hammered one night and decided to help out the linux community by submitting patches to their only real competitor...
I mean come on... it's like BMW helping out GMC and teaching them how to build cars... not really a business model.
So anyway, let's be realistic instead of hoping Microsoft will port all their products to Open Source, submit patches to help out linux, and offer free training to all customers wanting to "upgrade" to MS-Linux...
I'm assuming that you *are* refering to the latest OpenOffice that this article is here to talk about right?
I mean, it's a little quick to do benchmarks IMO, but when I fire up OO.o 1.1 beta2 on this box, it's just pretty darn fast compared to the old 1.0.2 and 1.0.3.
It's still slower than MS-Office on Windows but MS-Office emulated runs a lot slower here as well.
Also let's not forget that the reason why OO.o is so slow is because it relies in technologies that offer poor performance in order to provide true cross-platform applications...
OpenOffice is getting a lot better but I don't see them catching up with features, speed and interface in the next 5 years anyway, however, it's just "Good Enough For Me" (tm)
We live in a changing world...
Today, the first bug-free software has seen the light... let me introduce you to...
NADA: http://www.bernardbelanger.com/computing/NaDa/
Simple... it does nothing, but it does it very well...
Definitely worth a try...
It works on all platforms... (windows, unix, linux, mac os, osx, embeded platforms, amiga, beos, etc...) and always does exactly what you expect it to!
AND!!! It's freeware!!!
I doubt the parent would have been modded down as Troll if I had said GENTOO SUCKS NUTS!!! /. and get flamed.
But yeah say something about god-forsaken-debian on
Debian is better for corp usage then the "corp" distros.
So I can just call 1-800-DEBIAN4ME and tell them xyz won't run and my clients are yelling at me and they'll take a look at it and help me fix the problem?
Does that also mean I can take my well-earned vacation in August and if there's a problem with any of the servers, my boss can call 1-800-DEBIAN4ME and tell them there's a problem and they'll try to fix it for him?
You're right... it is pretty cool
oh..wait...
Either it will be compatible or there will be a Zend Optimizer 2.
Either way, considering all the Zend optimizer does is cache the compiled code, I don't think the versiion of the zend-engine matters all that much... it should be pretty easy for them to get a newer version for php5.
Not natively (yet) but there are several tools that do this for PHP, such as the Zend Optimizer or the popular PHP Accelerator (PHPA) http://www.php-accelerator.co.uk/
None taken... it wasn't actually mis-spelled but a plain typo.
And I'm not from Boston nor have I ever been around Boston so I learned something today... yay
I did notice the spelling mistake once I submitted...
I didn't get the boston joke though...
What were you trying to say exactly?
That does make a lot more sense...
though today, you can get a linux-based computer for about half that much ad wal-mart.
You can clearly see that this person has spent 2000 minutes with linux and then deleted the partitions to get back to windows...
Quanta plus, a web browser?!?
Super-cheap PCs for $1097?!?
It's pretty funny when an editor starts writting about stuff that is completely out of his league...
That's okay though... distcc will still help and make things a little faster...
:)
:)
Right now at home, I only have a Celeron 500 w/320Mb of RAM as my primary workstation and a PII 400 w/320Mb RAM and 120Gb HDD as a server and I'll be getting a new XP 3000+ 1Gb RAM at the end of the summer, then I'll be using the 2 other boxes as a compile farm and my current workstation will be transformed into a gigantic CCache so I never have to compile anything more than once
There's a lot you can do with distcc and ccache
To list installed packages, there are some tools that will do that for you... I would just do this: /var/db/pkg/ | grep ':'
ls -R
And for the kernel compile, it really *is* a walk in the pack... but don't forget there are new emerging technologies that make installing KDE, X and mozilla a walk in the pack too...
For example, DistCC is a cross-compiler that allows you to distribute your compiling over multiple boxes... those boxes can be running any distro that has the same compiler and libc running on it...
We (at work) use the old boxes on our network as a compile farm and it works darn well...
we have 2 Athlon XP-2400 w/1Gb of ram for the workstations and 3 older machines that help out with compiling... We can get all these packages installed in a few hours...
Another utility is CCache... it's basically a caching utility that caches your compiles on-the-fly so if you emerge a large package again,
your computer will only have to compile the parts of the source that have changes...
this saves hours when upgrading packages...
I know about metamoderation.
What I meant was to moderate them as "Funny" for example... Metamoderation is only to make sure moderators don't screw up too much...
Haha... too bad you can't moderate moderations... I'd rate that one "funny".
It would also be cool if moderators could leave a comment when they leave a negative score...
That doesn't mean anything if you don't know what their upgrading scheme is like...
Also, remember that it includes a lot of proprietary software such as CrossOver Office, CrossOver Plugins, StarOffice and probably more... so that has to be counted in the price too.
I'm not familiar with the licensing pricing scheme of Microsoft but I'm pretty sure Windows XP corporate + Office XP isn't all that cheap either.
I believe the version of StarOffice included is the old one everyone has already tried and that OpenOffice is based on... am I right?
AFAIK, StarOffice is launching a beta program sometime soon to test their newest product that is supposed to be a whole lot better but that's all the info I have...
Also after reading the review, I was wondering why in the world a corporate employee would ever try to install the Ximian desktop on his work Suse box... I mean... this distribution is targeted at non-unix/linux users right... how would they even know about the Ximian desktop?
Thanks.
I don't really get the Ocean Front home comment... could you please elaborate ?
If you lived where I do (at the border), you would know by now that "the only reason the US haven't annexed Canada outright" is simply because we hold you guys by the balls...
Your economy just wouldn't work out on your own...
If you think the US has all the energy/oil/resources/manufacturing facilities for everything because you guys are the kings of the world, you're in for a big surprise because it just ain't so.