Slashdot Mirror
Windows Tech Writer Looks at Linux
An anonymous reader writes "Three days ago I accepted Linux into my life and while I'm not yet a convert, the experience has shaken my faith in Windows. It's hard to reconcile because for nearly 20 years I've mostly stayed on the one true Windows path."
It's hard to reconcile because for nearly 20 years I've mostly stayed on the one true Windows path.
If you were using Windows in 1984 and kept using it... you have more problems than just trying to reconcile an OS.
wow
I cannot really find this relevant. I mean, we have all heard the Linux is better than Windows, blah blah blah. I mean, if someone (a real person, that is) posted a testimony that Windows is better than Linux, then it could be news, but this feels just like regurgitation.
propaganda kitchen
I was a disciple from the beginning when it was called Dos, and kept the faith through the buggy, painful years of Windows 1.0 to 3.11.
Amen, brother!
Quite simply, Linux has the best hardware support of any OS I've ever used. On a machine, every OS except Linux, including freebsd, crashed randomly. What it really needs is a long-term API freeze, and changes after that being backportable. With Windows, you can run an executable file on just about any Windows box from Win95 through XP. However, with Linux, the APIs keep changing.
We hold no grudge. Just donate half your money to the free software foundation. Thanks a million.
Let's see who can find the stock photo and the PR agency responsible for this. ;-)
What time is it/will be over there? Check with my iPhone app!
This article is something like 10 small paragraphs long as an introduction to setting up and running (for a short while now) Linux. It is hardly worth the average Slashdot reader's time.
Sheer hell, it sounds like!
"That" was a "nice" "article" about "something".
You'd think a 'technical writer' or 'IT Editor' would be a little more knowledgeable about 'basic computing concepts' like 'disk partitioning' and maybe wouldn't use so many 'extraneous unnecessary quotation marks'.
Well I think this quote sums it up nicely
"But what's it like? Surprisingly, it looks and feels a lot like Windows."
To appeal to the common man they Linux has to be something there are already aware of and as much as I hate to say it copying the Windows interface, or at least a similar style is needed.
Personally I use just sawfish with terminals as it works for me but for 99% of everyone else they need a familiar and intative interface
Rus
Cheap UK and US VPS
I mean, it's 2003, for God's sakes.
The cake is a pie
Even if the audience for this article is the uninitiated there does not seem to be much here except that there are many applications for linux. Given that there are many applications for windows too it's not really a convincing article. Okay, so maybe you're saying the article wasn't meant to convince but rather to share a story of how easy it was to install linux. In doing that I feel it did a poor job as well. At the very least the author could have made this more useful if he had even spit out some of the obvious advantages of linux over windows. As it is he doesn't even bother defining 'dual boot' (assuming again the audience is the newbie). Nor does he talk about having a virus free OS environment. At the very least he could define 'free' as both being free as in beer and as in speech..
Quick warning, possible NSFW link... (bloody babies...)
Yet another person tries linux, finds to their surprise that it is possible for a collection of loosely tied enthusiasts to produce something that works well, and writes about it, with the weight of "I'm a tech writer, so my opinion is more valid ;-) ) It discourages me when I read comments like the one in the artice - "What was it like - surprisingly, rather like Windows". Rather than look for similarities between the two, see how well you can use it, and comment on that useability, not on it's similarities. This way, fewer first time adopters will be put off when they discover that some things definately are _not_ like Windows.
"I am not bound to please thee with my answers" [William Shakespeare]
You have had your struggles with it when you started, felt anger followed by sadness when hit by a freak BSOD and finally accepted and started to love it.
Now something comes along, which looks and "feels" better - luckily, it's not a woman!
One true windows path? Where does the path lead to? Podunk, Nebraska?
using namespace slashdot;
troll::post();
Sheesh, could this possibly be
"Three days ago I accepted Linux into my life and while I'm not yet a convert, the experience has shaken my faith in Windows. It's hard to reconcile because for nearly 20 years I've mostly stayed on the one true Windows path."
If they have been using Windows for 20 years they are foremost a technical person, early adopter, and to some extent a knowledgable computer person.
The fact that Linux is always an "alternative" to Windows is in my opinion, just furthering the saying that "Linux is for people that hate Windows, BSD is for people that love UNIX". Why do Linux users always have to profess their fate to Linus & Stallman and in the same breath say something, ANYTHING, about Windows?
I run FreeBSD & NetBSD because I love UNIX and its capabilities and its features and EVERYTHING. It has nothing to do with Windows. Ever. I still run Windows XP and 2K. With Linux users it seems to be a conversion of holy nature like they are becoming a shaolin priest and can't look back....why?
I don't know how to defrag, but I'm familiar with vm. Am I ready for this religeous "experience"?
-Satan ( aka Anonymous Coward )
Kind of a dry article. All it really says is "I tried Linux. It took a while to set up. It wasn't too hard to use after setup. There were a lot of different software choices." To me, that's the big note of the story: that a rube took a look at Linux and couldn't believe that this platform had more than one viable word processor, browser, etc. "Look, Mom -- No monopoly!"
Libertarians somehow believe that private businesses should be stronger than governments but weaker than individuals.
my favorite part was how quickly it installed...almost passed over that one, hehe...
//FIXME: Bad
Yeah. Just today I saw a post by a web-designer, explaining how he/she had never used Mozilla.
Sad, sad, sad.
(as if the original topic wasn't sad enough)
Belief is the currency of delusion.
It ran well without a hiccup, but then she said she wanted windows so she could run MS-Office apps. (They didn't have crossover office at the time, and Wine was pre-alpha quality) So I installed windows 9x, and the support calls became unceasing. Screen coming up black, (they had inadvertedly switched to a setting the monitor couldn't handle) BSODs, email connection problems, you name it. Now they are running Win2K which is at least stable, but the thing I found about Linux, is once you have it set up right, it is great for technophobes. It doesn't pick up viruses and is much less prone to break for mysterious reasons.
My rights don't need management.
Three days ago I accepted Linux into my life and while I'm not yet a convert, the experience has shaken my faith in Windows. It's hard to reconcile because for nearly 20 years I've mostly stayed on the one true Windows path.
In my early computer years I had a brief flirtation with the Apple Mac, which I liked a lot. But I turned my back on that religion when I took a job editing a PC magazine. Ever since, I've stuck to the Windows creed - growing in my belief as its power and influence spread.
I was a disciple from the beginning when it was called Dos, and kept the faith through the buggy, painful years of Windows 1.0 to 3.11.
IBM's OS/2 tempted me briefly, but Windows 95 brought me back from the wilderness, then 98, the Millennium Edition, Windows 2000 and today's XP. I was, like most of the computing world, a follower.
So why is Linux turning my head? Mainly I suppose because it's free. But also because for the first time there is a realistic alternative to Windows that runs on Intel-based PCs.
The gift came to me via David and Roger, two very nice, not pushy, Linux missionaries who are involved with the coming Linux Installfest. I told them I wasn't ready to give up on Windows, but wanted to try Linux and some "open source" applications equivalent to Microsoft's Office suite.
"Fine," they said. "Just defrag your disk." (If you don't know how to defrag, you're probably not ready for the Linux experience.)
They also asked what "distribution" I would like - Debian, RedHat, Mandrake or something else? I understood what the question meant, but had no real knowledge of the difference between these shades of Linux, so I went with their advice - Mandrake.
Roger and David can give away this software with no fear of breaking copyright law because that's how the licence for Linux software works. Unlike Windows, you're free to make and give away as many copies as you like.
I know it sounds mad, but it's a fundamental tenet of this new religion. Here, software is not made by armies of "Microserfs" employed by a giant corporation, but by armies of volunteer programmers who "donate" their code to the public domain. By making underlying source code available to all, many hands and minds work on the software to improve it - hence "open source".
What it means for consumers is more choice and much cheaper PCs - such as the $1097 Terminator you can buy from Dick Smith's.
But what's it like? Surprisingly, it looks and feels a lot like Windows.
Setting it all up can, however, be a little daunting - so it pays to have good missionaries enlightening the road. That's what events like the Installfest on July 5 at AUT are all about - helping newbies through their installation fears. You can also get a lot of information online from sites such as Linux Newbie Administrator Guide.
My own installation was a breeze - at the beginning. Mandrake "partitioned" the PC's disk so it could "dual boot" to either Windows or Linux. David then dropped a disk into the CD drive and after following a few on-screen instructions - some of which aren't exactly intuitive - Linux was in place. It took 10 minutes -- less time than it takes the average linux user to molest a little boy. Roger was able to get the printer working quite quickly, but the modem was a nightmare taking an hour or so to resolve.
But after that it was sweet. I was amazed by the number of applications that came with the installation. So many that I felt spoiled for choice. Not only could I choose the graphical interface - from odd names such as KDE, Gnome and IceWM - but there was also a sea of applications. Word processors, spreadsheets, imaging software and just about anything else you could think of was installed to explore - all for free. It's quite liberating to try out five different web browsers - Galeon, Konqueror, Mozilla, Quanta Plus or Screem - until you find one you like. I think I'm becoming a homosexual. fags
Comment removed based on user account deletion
From the article:
I know it sounds mad, but it's a fundamental tenet of this new religion. Here, software is not made by armies of "Microserfs" employed by a giant corporation, but by armies of volunteer programmers who "donate" their code to the public domain. By making underlying source code available to all, many hands and minds work on the software to improve it - hence "open source".
and later on:
My own installation was a breeze - at the beginning. Mandrake "partitioned" the PC's disk so it could "dual boot" to either Windows or Linux.
"People" who gratuitously overuse words in "quotes" too much these days give me Austin Powers "flashbacks" which make me "laugh."
~Philly
Reading these posts, he's been defined as a rube, kiwi, and assknob (mine), and probably other things. Now, a poor slob! Heh, serves him right, bastard!
On a happier note though; though this article is pure fluff, like they say, there's no such thing as bad press.
"Would it kill you to put down the toilet seat?" -- Maya Angelou
Well... it's all opinions, everyone have different needs.
I do like Linux way more than Windows, but that doesn't mean everyone will accept my point of view, others think *BSD-based systems are better than Linux... are they wrong? I think no, they are not wrong after all... but neither they are right, I mean, we all have different goals, don't we?
Hardly worth any of us reading, but perhaps a significant article in that it goes to the everyday masses and provides a place and date of where you can get help installing Linux if you've ever wanted to try it. It's just a round about way of telling about the installfest and making the idea at least palatable to Windows users by explaining that Linux isn't really all that far off from Windows and still has plenty of apps.
Most people would die sooner than think; in fact, they do.
Nice article probably, but Free and Open Source software is not "public domain". It _is_ copyrighted and comes with a license, which grants you the right to modify/redistribute, etc. Well, I guess I'll give the guy a break - he is new on the block. :-)
zWhat would an EWOULDBLOCK block, if an EWOULDBLOCK could block would? -- me
The whole MS goal is to encourage the user of its operating systems to buy "applications" which can be launched by a few clicks. A corollary to the Microsoft philosophy is that all human actions can be anticipated and distilled into a a few fixed menus.
There really isn't any problem with Microsoft products as long as the menus match the user's needs. However the frustration sets in when the user grows beyond Microsoft's predigested canned offerings. There is little one can do except possibly buy another "application" in the never ending quest for the final one. The game is rigged and your goal will always be just out of reach -- tomorrow, next month, next year.
You see, actually, it isn't really about buying new applications per se. It's about buying new menus, the eternal search for the perfect menu which will do it all.
Seriously, I'm sure everyone using Linux now has had some experience with Windows before. Many have probably had quite a bit of it. I mean, "Oh my God, a Windows-user actually looked at Linux"... Please.
it's nice to know that Quanta Plus and Screem are web browsers and not content creation and site management tools. Whew! Thanks, tech writer! An old editor told me: Write whatever you want, but make sure it's correct.
Otherwise, a nice Internet piece.
The author should close with the Linux Prayer:
Our PC GOD Torvalds, which art in Transmeta^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H OSDN
Hallowed be thy skillz
Thy kernel comes, in the US and all the earth
Give us this day our daily updates.
And forgive us our holes, as we apply thine patch.
And lead us not into closed source, but deliver us from Microsoft.
For thine is the kernel, the skillz, and the leetness for ever and ever. Amen.
Only THEN, he can say: "Praise the PC god and Linux open-source apostles, I'm a believer."
--
Error 500: Internal sig error
No why on earth would he need to defrag his diskdrive before installing linux? There are two ways of doing this, either repartition the disk drive, or you install it on a FAT partition with the VFAT file system (not really recommended but it works). None of them requires defragmentation though...
Since when has this been a browser, as he says at the bottom of the article?
The gift came to me via David and Roger, two very nice, not pushy, Linux missionaries who are involved with the coming Linux Installfest.
It wouldn't hurt to have more of their type.
+5:offtopic,but anti-American
Here, software is not made by armies of "Microserfs" employed by a giant corporation,
Yes.
but by armies of volunteer programmers who "donate" their code to the public domain.
No.
Most Open Source code is not in the public domain, but rather distributed under an exceptionally liberal license.
Beep beep.
...since he mentions migrating from 98 to ME and then 2000, without mentioning how shitty ME was.
I mean, I know Windows zealots who were loudly outspoken as to how much of a piece of shit ME really was. For people who generally liken using Windows to being assraped by Satan, using ME was like being assraped by Satan while he's wearing a barbed-wire condom.
(If you don't know how to defrag, you're probably not ready for the Linux experience.)
Setting it all up can, however, be a little daunting...
Etc. This and other negative comments about usability in the article make an unintentional but important point.
Linux is not for ordinary people. It's for computer enthusiasts. Most people want to use the computer as a tool, not for its own sake. They have no interest in memorizing reams of arcane computer trivia in order to get email, surf the web, write, and work on spreadsheets.
Desktop Linux can't and won't satisfy the requirements of the ordinary user, even though it may be a great playground for hobbyists, as well as a perfectly reasonable solution on the server side for many applications. The conversion of a longtime computer hobbyist says nothing about the dream many Linux users have of their pet OS becoming a significant force in the desktop market. Neither they nor Chris Barton reflect the consumers in that market.
You can clearly see that this person has spent 2000 minutes with linux and then deleted the partitions to get back to windows...
Quanta plus, a web browser?!?
Super-cheap PCs for $1097?!?
It's pretty funny when an editor starts writting about stuff that is completely out of his league...
Thanks a million.
I think you mean "15 billion".
Windoze user likes Linux. Film at eleven.
This sig no verb.
Er, 20 years ago (1983), Windows was a non-factor, was still vaporware being re-engineered from a Multiplan-like text interface to a """graphical""" interface. It was obviously like "graphical" versions of these two programs bolted hapazardly (sp?) together, this file manager one and this program launching menu one... I can't remember their names exactly, can anyone remember? They were well-known at the time.
In 1983, you still could find Apple IIs, some TRS-80s, some Ataris... M$ was not yet the black-hole that sucked the life out of the software industry.
IIRC, Windows 1.0 came out in *1984*. And no-one used it, nor v2.0. Windows started proliferating only with version 3.0, which came out in 1990/91.
Stating he's been a Windows user for 20 years is a sign this guy had an orwelian "bad memory" or is suffering from heat stroke or something...
Before you ask, I'm a RH user & work with Solaris, Irix, HP-UX & Tru64 as a sys admin.
My question is: What did he base his conclusions on? "I was amazed by the number of applications that came with the installation...I think I'm becoming a believer.
IMO, some vital things for him to try on his new Linux system would be:
-Word processing & collaborating with the other editors at the nzherald.
-Transferring files from his Windows machine to his new Mandrake install.
-Using the WWW, even!
The article caught my eye because I didn't start using *nix until 1995 & I was also a Windows user prior to using Irix for the first time. The first thing I needed to do was get some files from a Windows machine; A Win32 FTP client -> Irix FTP server was the easiest solution. For WWW, I only required Lynx & that was adequate for me;
...but I quickly realized that while this Indigo workstation had some strengths, it was definitely not an adequate PC for me! (Chris failed even mention how nzherald.co.nz looks in Galeon or Konqueror...)
I am kind of annoyed that I read his dribble. The whole column is interspersed with references to religious beliefs as it relates to operating systems. This is the same guy who dresses up like Luke Skywalker and camps out for movie premieres.
However, I do have to say that the Hair Club for Men did an excellent job for him.
Three days ago I took my dry-cleaning to the cleaners. I had never taken them to that particular dry cleaner before, but my mates Dick and Harry have always used them. When I got my clothes back, they were clean. Oh yeah, I am in fact an assknob. Thank You
I found this odd too. Maybe for preparation of shrinking the partition to make room for another partition or something like that?
It's the only reason I can think of?
zWhat would an EWOULDBLOCK block, if an EWOULDBLOCK could block would? -- me
http://installfest.linux.net.nz/
As you can tell, it's only going on in New Zealand. Good for the Kiwis, but is there anything of the sort being done in the United States? I think we need Installfests here, too.
As for the article, I think everyone should quit carping. This is good press for Linux. I had the same experience in March when I made the "switch" on my main PC. Only difference is that my machine does not dual boot, and I'd had Aurora Linux on a Sparc since December '02. At any rate, though, the message needs to get out that Linux *IS* a genuine alternative, and this article does just that.
IAAL
" The gift came to me via David and Roger, two very nice, not pushy, Linux missionaries who are involved with the coming Linux Installfest."
Hmmm. David and Roger, huh? Missionaries? Coming? Installfest?
'Cor blimey guv'nor, I think I've found the missing link!
Having RTFA and most of the comments, I'm a bit baffeled by the slasdot community today. Even I see this not as a article in how to use Linux or anything, but more as the sort of commentary that you can read on page three of most computermagazines these days. Saying things like "we knew that" and "is this news" actually misses the point, as he isn't speaking to those who already uses Linux but rather to those who still sees Windows as the only operating system out there. He isn't preaching to the choir my friends, he is preaching to the heatens, like myself.
The article / editorial / comment is more of a key than a crowbar... it may wet peoples appetite for the 'free*' OS they can get from their nerdy friends - even if the setup can be more of a hazzle than Windows is (well, than Windows can be; I used several hours patching up my spare PC yesterday after upgrading to XP). As such, I would say this is a good little article. He mentiones several of the pros of Linux, a few of the drawbacks, points out that it isn't a scary thing to try and that it is realivelty easy to do. He even adds a numer of links to distros, info on opensourse and the Linux Newbie Administration Guide... The only thing he don't add is the URL to knoppix so people could try Linux without having to change anything on their 'puter.
*) However you want to define 'free' as far as Linux go...
Everything in the world is controlled by a small, evil group to which, unfortunately, no one you know belongs.
I like to do coding and web development, and it's a really convenient platform for that sort of thing.
All those Linux-involved companies (RedHat, IBM...) try to cook up service jobs out of Linux, but when all those 'volunteers' can install Linux onto hundreds of PCs, then who needs those OSS service companies? They'll be doomed at some time in near future.
That was fucking hilarious!
He used to do it on the Weekend Update segment.
I just installed RedHat 9.0 on my Athlon 1900XP+ 1gb RAM, and here's my revelation: it's SLOW. Seriously, compared to XP Pro... it's slow! I'm waiting for windows to appear, it takes ages to boot, browsing is a nightmare... it wasn't meant to be this way!
[nt]
Isn't that the Ambiguously Gay Duo?
"Would it kill you to put down the toilet seat?" -- Maya Angelou
Ok, I want to believe. I honestly do.
... what?
... people please. XP you have to pay for. Win9x, WinME, Windows 2000 are pretty much available for the asking on a trial basis. Assuming people are actually purchasing their applications the OS is a tiny fraction of the overall cost when you include their 3D modelling package, Photoshop, Games (Q3A for Linux wasn't free last time I checked, nor any of the Unreal series.)
... but I don't think I could find 8 apps to run, one for each virtual desktop.
I loaded RedHat around version 5.1 or 5.2 long, long ago - dedicated a machine to it, got it working, don't remember any of the particulars such as which shell I was using, hell it was 5 years ago (plus or minus.)
I got it running one afternoon, configured the modem (external modems by Hayes / USR - accept no substitutes) and got it talking to my ISP, used some version of Netscape that easily adequate for surfing at the time, I totally dug the 8-way virtual display under the GUI, I almost understood where everything on my drive was and why, had fun with the screen backgrounds (XEarth, etc..) and then
What did I do next? Not much else to do. None of my apps (read : games) were available at the time for Linux. I was unable to find replacements for any of my tools (read : an XTree clone such as ZTree, Office, Visual Studio, Drive Image, etc.) - I know now that there is a viable replacement for Office, but my professional experience doing development is on the MS platform. I have an entire support system for coming up with software on the MS platforms that I just haven't found (either where to find, or even that they exist) for Linux.
And of course there is the real reason we own home computers (and yes, I already mentioned it) : games. Flight simulators. Everquest (et.al MMORPGs) MechWarrior 2/3/4. Battles of Destiny. Yes, I know that Q3 is available on Linux, as is Unreal (well I believe it is) and the UT series. Anything else?
And as for cost
I would love to run a Linux box at home if for no other reason than the cool 8-way virtual desktop in the GUI
Linux is good enough. Quit making it better and spend some time coming up with apps - now THAT will get people to convert.
Glonoinha the MebiByte Slayer
The first version of Microsoft Windows I used was 2.1; It was much like the program launching program, Norton Commander or Xtree Pro.
If you need some Windows 2.1 tech support, check out Juvio!!
Linux is not for ordinary people. It's for computer enthusiasts. Most people want to use the computer as a tool, not for its own sake. They have no interest in memorizing reams of arcane computer trivia in order to get email, surf the web, write, and work on spreadsheets. ...Windows comes preinstalled. If you have a properly set up distribution with some good default choices (OpenOffice, Evolution etc.) it is not really any harder than on Windows, apart from unfamiliarity. Getting a Linux geek there to install and configure it shouldn't be the problem, the question is what it takes to keep it running, and more importantly if it runs the software people want to run.
Kjella
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
Historically that's true. But reading Eric Raymond's The Art of Unix Programming I realized that at the moment the Unix family and the Windows family are the only realistic OS's left.
And pardon me for saying so, but the Unices covered in thick crusts of 30 years of sediments.
If I login to my Linux box with a shell it doesn't recognize (Interix) it asks me to specify my terminal type. WTF, why not ask me what kind of punch cards I'd like to send?
From ESR's book I understood that some people are carrying on the BeOS open-source. Which should be interesting since it was built completely anew.
Does anybody have any experience with this? Is it alive and kicking?
groeten uit Nederland,
Joost
Who better than a Windows technical writer to critique Linux through an installfest experience?
I mean how do system designers, consumer experts, and big and small businessmen compare someone who uses their computer as a glorified typewriter?
Certianly you would prefer personal experience from someone like that if you have to get personal experience.
Now if you will excuse me, I have to be going. I'm off to the homeless shelter to visit my real-estate agent.
Mod me down and I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine!
Or maybe not. I've had to wrestle with simple HP laserjet installs on WinXX for longer than that. He might have been hoping he could go out for dinner and a date while the box rebooted itself 6 times, so maybe he was disappointed.
It's nice to see a good article like this one. Sure it lacks depth, but it shows that even a hard core Windows user can see what draws many of us to use Linux instead. I would love to see a similar article where various people are forced to give up using Windows (or Mac) for a week and made to use Linux for their daily PC routine (of course with someone to help them along the way nearby) to see how quickly they adapt to the new environment.
-Cnik
Please, if people are going to publish articles attempting to convert Windows users (what this is aimed at unless I've missed the point), please check your facts. I forgive the guy, he's new, but:
1. I can understand why Stallman bursts blood vessels, screaming it's GNU-LINUX dammit! The faster people are educated, the faster people will "get" the free software movement, the reasoning behind it and how it fits together.
2. Quanta+ and Screem are HTML editors - not web browsers.
3. Open Source/Free Software is licenced differently - it is *not* public domain. The author does not give up all rights to their software. You are just allowed to do more than you can with proprietary licences.
Stuff my karma, these endless "I'm rubbish with computers and I tried Linux for the first time..." articles are getting irritating now.
Don't use things because they are an "alternative" to Windows - use them because you have more control over your computer, understand what's going on and use your computer as a tool better, and more efficiently.
It's not about putting MS down (otherwise we are no better), it's about drawing attention through writing better software. The day is coming....
What it means for consumers is more choice and much cheaper PCs - such as the $1097 Terminator you can buy from Dick Smith's.
Boy, we need a Dick Smith's in the states. I could use a visit to a guy who could hammer out a 9 incher for me.... (just kidding) For those who don't know, Dick Smith's is like Australia's version of Fry's Electronics or Best Buy.
who's yo daddy?
To appeal to the common man they Linux has to be something there are already aware of and as much as I hate to say it copying the Windows interface, or at least a similar style is needed.
Given that the windows look started out by creating a graphic interface on top of MS-DOS which "looked like Macintosh", I'd say that Microsoft agrees with you.
Yes there are differences. And some of them are REALLY significant. But windowing systems are far more similar to each other than any of them are to a command-line interface. Don't be surprised by comments like that from other Windows users trying a Linux distribution for the first time.
And starting them out on a windowing system that is a close match - in detail - to the one they're used to is a great way to ease them over the transition. Once they've learned the differences in the underlying utilities and paradigms, they can explore other graphic interfaces at their leisure.
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
BSODs, crashes, and upgrades! Oh my!
Okay, I've got a few issues with this article:
"Fine," they said. "Just defrag your disk." (If you don't know how to defrag, you're probably not ready for the Linux experience.)
What the hell does defragging have to do with anything?
Here, software is not made by armies of "Microserfs" employed by a giant corporation, but by armies of volunteer programmers who "donate" their code to the public domain.
No, the code is not public domain. Most all programmers I know retain the copyrights on their software. This is why software licenses like the GPL exist in the first place.
Roger and David can give away this software with no fear of breaking copyright law because that's how the licence for Linux software works. Unlike Windows, you're free to make and give away as many copies as you like.
No, not all distributions are free. Some companies may choose not to GPL their proprietary bells-and-whistles, such as installers and configuration utilities. I also dislike this article's erroneous insinuation that all Linux software is free.
the parent was responding to the comment
I mean, if someone (a real person, that is) posted a testimony that Windows is better than Linux, then it could be news, but this feels just like regurgitation.
.. oh
Ecce Europa - Web Design for Business
"It's quite liberating to try out five different web browsers - Galeon, Konqueror, Mozilla, Quanta Plus or Screem
Please note that the last two are web development IDE's. I can just imagine a new Linux user browsing in one of those. Heh.
"You tried your best and failed miserably. The lesson is...never try. Heh!" -Homer
Someone needs to tell this guy about Jaguar and Panther. He seems to like pain, having used Windows from 1.0 to 3.11, so maybe linux will be good for him.
Virtual desktops for Windows
Works great on my XP box, and as many features as you would want in a virtual desktop manager... and it's free.
What the hell does defragging have to do with anything?
Maybe nothing. Maybe his buddies didn't know what they were doing. He is just the messenger here, so don't shoot. That said, it used to be that you needed a defrag to be able to do a OS multi-boot on the same physical drive. Isn't that still the case?
Now for the meat...
No, not all distributions are free. Some companies may choose not to GPL their proprietary bells-and-whistles, such as installers and configuration utilities. I also dislike this article's erroneous insinuation that all Linux software is free.
You're absolutely correct. And it doesn't really matter one bit that you are correct. You see, the average person is quite content to use Windows until something better comes along. By something better, I mean it had better be (a) significantly faster/stable and/or (b) significantly cheaper and/or (c) significantly more feature rich (and easy to use) and/or (d) significantly more entertaining. Linux may or may not be faster/stable (it's debatable these days), it is more feature rich (but it's not easier to use), and it definitely is not more entertaining to the average person. So what does that leave? Cheaper. And how does every rabid Linux advocate start Linux evangelism? "Hey it's free! Here, take one."
The fact is that Joe Blow will choose Linux over Windows when doing so allows him to dodge the extra $200+ of cost of Windows + Office on a new computer. Joe had also better not care that most of the new games out there won't be usable under Linux. THEN he will choose Linux.
Don't get me wrong, I like Linux on the desktop. But please be realistic about why most people will choose it.
Please mod this post only if you think others should/n't read this. I have enough ego^H^H^Hkarma. Thanks!
unfourtunately, i had never known anything other than windows until 1 month ago. i heard of linux and thought "oh, way to complicated for me...." but eventually i got really tired of my computer freezing and crashing and having to be rebooted (you know how it goes) so i decided to look into it. I bought suse linux 8.2 and discovered really how easy linux is to use and i learned commands and the lingo associated relatively quickly. i still know hardly anything about it in one month of everyday use, but it is a start and it is much better than windows or mac operating systems.
Since Knoppix boots right off the CD and doesn't touch your system then I feel that's the best way to get newbies interested. That way there is no commitment to just try Linux.
Most of the time it requires zero work to get them running Linux. After that they can decide if they want to really install Linux.
Even though I don't use it, KDE 3.1 usually produces a very favorable impression of Linux because it looks slick.
The ratio of people to cake is too big
An exceptionally liberal license would be MIT or BSD style.
hmm flamebait
I hear a lot about Linux and Open Source software being built by an army of volunteers. I doubt this is true. I know salaried employees who work full time for RedHat on Linux and I hear about other big-name companies (such as IBM) devoting highly paid staff to working on Linux.
Typically, if a project doesn't offer money it needs to offer prestige, fame, or at least recognition. I see this with lots of smaller projects all over but don't see this with something as big as Linux for example.
I am a full-time software engineer myself and know many others. Most of us easily work 50+ hours per week and time is extremely valuable. I can't imagine a significant number of engieneers devoting many nights and weekends doing difficult work on such a large project and getting little recognition or benefit in return.
I too was a fan of Microsoft. But, once I received my first computer, I wanted to test out new things try new experiences (ie my 1960s). I realized Linux provided what Microsoft could and they were the same for what I do. If I had broadband access, it might be linux hands down. If I didn't have a connection, Microsoft would be my only applications. I like programing better with linux, I like gaming better with windows. The whole argument between the two should be, pick the OS that suites your needs, not others.
sellout ..
Is it just me, or does this stuff read like Dr. Evil, using the finger-quote gesture when he says 'death star' etc.?
[100% ISO 646 Compliant]
SVM, ERGO MONSTRO.
Some cunt mod this up to +5 please. And it isn't funny, it is insightful.
Linux is fundumentally designed as a replacement for UNIX, not a replacement for Windows.
I've been Linux-only for two years, and I've been running a Linux server for 4 years. As a result, I have a much different view on things.
While you ask for Visual Studio, I ask for a decent replacement for my developer tools. I don't even see "grep" for winshit, much less the pipes required to make it useful. I don't see a decent commandline, or any semblence thereof. COMMAND.COM is crap, and so is CMD.EXE(essentially COMMAND.COM+DOSKEY).
GUI utilities are $599.40+tax a dozen in Windows, and a dime of bandwidth a dozen in Linux. A good command line base is essential for me. I can search through all of HTTP access logs and only display the results of my dad checking his email to find his current IP address with a single, simple, line of shell code. Then I can securely connect to his computer and change whatever needs to be changed without wasting bandwidth with (Tight)VNC.
If you just want virtual desktops (which can be of any amount) check out LiteStep.
Pointing and clicking is like a baby pointing and screaming. Stuff gets done, but it's a lot faster to ask in an intelligible language. I'll never give up a great shell(zsh being my favorite) for a prettier interface.
You can't judge a book by the way it wears its hair.
Call me a misantroph, but there's only one thing sadder than "tech writers" and that's "sport writers".
Now go back to watching "Everybody Loves Raymond".
How small a thought it takes to fill a whole life
People don't just login to slashdot from their home, where they have GNU/Linux installed. They login from public libraries, almost all of which run Winblows, and work, which is usually Winblows.
Try thinking next time.
social sciences can never use experience to verify their statemen
Fsckwit!
I'm too sexy for you.
Liberation can only happen if a person no longer wants what you're leaving behind.
Many people aren't willing to liberate themselves from their 3d games and expensive investments in existing software and hardware.
I've helped many people install their first linux. With a few notable exceptions, most enjoy the experience, feel good about themselves for a period of time, and then go back to their Windows desktops. The smarter ones figure out how to run both environments and reap the benefits of both.
seismic
drag me drop me treat me like an object
I told them I wasn't ready to give up on Windows, but wanted to try Linux and some "open source" applications equivalent to Microsoft's Office suite.
"Fine," they said. "Just defrag your disk." (If you don't know how to defrag, you're probably not ready for the Linux experience.)
Dude, if you don't know the difference between partition and defrag, you're probably not ready to be a "technical writer".
I wonder what kind of column this N00b will write once he tries Panther on a G5? Look for Augusts installment: "The holy light befalls me!!!!".
HTML in the topic is a nice touch.. ;)
--
KUUUUNG-FU!
'nuff said.
Better ask your missionaries to install some extra multi-boot options to keep the rush going..
With great power comes great electricity bills.
[There's not] much here except that there are many applications for linux. [] there are many applications for windows too [so] it's not [] a convincing article.
[] maybe [] the article wasn't meant to convince but [] to share a story of how easy it was to install linux. [] it did a poor job [of that] as well.
At [] least [he should have mentioned] some of the obvious advantages of linux over windows. [But] he doesn't even [define] 'dual boot'[, mention the] virus free [] environment[, or] define 'free' as both [] as in beer and as in speech.
I think you missed the point of the article.
What this article does is inform Windows users that Linux is SO ready for prime-time that a man who has built his carreer as a writer about Windows is ready to swtich. And to bet his carreer on it (because he can expect never to hear inside info from his usual channels again).
It does it succinctly - fitting the major points into the limited size of his column:
- Been a Windows carreerist/true believer for 20 years but faith shaken.
- Once tried Mac but went with Windows. (Therefore Linux is better than both.) Ditto OS/2.
- Know ALL the Windows versions so Linux beats 'em all. (MAJOR credentials established by now. This is not your high-school basement geek talking.)
- It's free.
- There's free support, too, including experts who will do the install and configuration for free.
- And advise you on making the choices that require expert knowlege to get started.
- There's no army of anti-piracy police to retroactively extract licensing fees and penalties for your free software.
- There IS an army of volunteers, bigger than Microsoft, who already wrote enough to do what you need, and are writing still more. As a result the mass of free software mushrooms.
- The free software means your machine is cheaper. (No built-in "Microsoft Tax" for the minimum needed to get it to run - plus the standard stuff they foist on you.)
- It LOOKS LIKE WINDOWS - so much that you can dig right in without a tough retraining. You're ALREADY over the hard part of the leraning curve.
- The hard part is getting it configured. But these experts hold regular festivals where they'll do this FOR you. For free.
- Even if it's HARD on your particular machine due to SPECIAL PROBLEMS. And they get it done in a couple hours.
- They'll set up so you can ALSO use your machine with Windows - until you're weaned, or if there's something Linux won't do yet that you need. (And yes he DID explain dual-boot.)
- But it turns out the Linux distribution has LOTS of stuff already on it - for free - add-ons that would cost you an arm and a leg in Windows. (Implied: Enough that you might not need the dual-boot training wheels for long.) And MULTIPLE TYPES of the major components (like user interface and browser). So you don't have to commit to one, and buy it untested. And it's fun to test drive the sedan/sports car/luxury car/SUV version of each until you find the one that fits your lifestyle.
So what he's done is ENABLE Windows users: It's free, quick-to-get, fun, powerful, opens a vast world to you, doesn't cut you off from your current stuff, and YOU CAN DO IT. So why are you waiting?
And he does it in what - about four column inches? Astounding. (Took me about as much text just to deconstruct and SUMMARIZE all he did.)
Yes some of the points you make are missing. But they're the points EVERYONE makes, over and over. There's no need for Barton to hammer on them one more time, when there's other points - and a complete coherent argument - that need to be made.
Especially since anybody following Barton's advice will immediately be hooked up with his local Linux community, where plenty of other people will bring them up repeatedly.
This column could be a major breakthrough in the general adoption of Linux by the home users (which will creat
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
This guy trolls with no facts and a blatantly incorrect statistic, and he gets modded up?
Seems like they have faster updates down in New Zealand -- my copy of Screem is sooo old it only updates web sites!
People always say that installing linux is difficult, what they never say is that these days its a lot easier than installing windows. Because microsoft's installers have never really been reviewed they've had no motive to improve them and they've stayed unstable, unituitive and generally crap.
Whichever you choose, be extreme! Pull no punches, there can be no middle ground! If you follow these easy steps, your article is sure to be picked up by every Linux related news site and probably many non-linux sites.
What you have to say is not important, just stress that you have used and written about computers since the dawn of man kind and that you love/hate Linux. You'll be sure to have a syndicated column within a couple of days!
All I can say is that he must've had a ridiculously horrible experience on Windows if Linux seems great in contrast.
Why not Apple? He could've ditched (or, more realistically, 'sold') his Intel crap and bought a nice Apple machine (starting at $799 for desktops, $999 for portables) and then had the most stunningly spectacular experience imaginable. I mean, cripes, with all the dinking around you gotta do to get Linux to behave on the desktop, running a Mac is nirvana.
He admittedly didn't word it in a very nice way, but there is a valid point there.
I don't see a problem with having two gurus install Linux for you. Most Joe Sixpack types get Windows preinstalled, and wouldn't be tremendously happy installing it and setting it up.
However, if you want to buy and use a new piece of hardware, you can generally just buy it and follow the directions on an included card. Yes, maybe in six years they won't work any more, and you may not be taking advantage of the product's features, but you can get it up and running without any issues.
That really isn't true for Linux, much as I hate to say it. Linux really is quite usable and good for a typical non-tech office workers (as long as they don't heavily use MS document formats with the rest of their workgroup), as long as there is an on-staff guru supporting the thing.
That isn't because of a fundamental flaw in Linux, but because, while you can get Linux talking to most hardware these days, it's not the supported, idiot-proof path that's put out for Windows.
This isn't an anti-Linux rant. I've used Linux exclusively for years now. I think it's a terrible waste when a techncially-oriented person decides to use Windows, because if you sit down and try out Unix and understand the way it's built, the whole operating-system-is-a-programming-environment metaphor is incredibly powerful. You really won't want to leave it again. However, for a typical user, Linux needs to be professionally supported to be workable.
And for the professional user (at least a large, large chunk of 'em), Linux needs better support for Office formats to be adopted. Yes, there's OO.org, and yes, MS formats really aren't very good for interchange, and yes, even MS has their own importing bugs. When it comes down to it, though, the general case is that a Windows-using user tends to be able to work with Microsoft-product-generated formats more easily and reliabily than their Linux counterpart. And that's a serious impediment in the current cubicle world.
May we never see th
Lindows is even easier and I predict that by the end of the year that either Lindows 3 or 4 is free. I think that Lindows is moving toward a distribution model where they make their $$ from click-n-run subscriptions. It behooves them to use the old Polaroid model of distribution (and the currrent Inkjet model); mainly lose $$ on the OS but make it back on the accessories.
Bullshit suckers! You'll print anything now that sodomy is legal.
Get back to me in at least a month. If you're still using Linux, then we'll talk. 3 days is nothing dude. That's not even long enough to explore the system. Anyone can be a "convert" for 3 days. Once you get to the part where you're actually doing *real work* (and not just dicking around with settings and configurations), then let us know.
Can't you resist the urge to piss on this kiwi's parade?!?
*Some* people...
To me, the article seems that was 'just enough' pro-linux to get mentioned on a site like Slashdot, but not enough 'real information' to actually convince many people at all.
And that whole psuedo-religion thing turned me off treating the article seriously, and I bet it will turn away many Windows-but-thinking-of-trying-Linux users too.
Bleah... I've seen way better advocacy than this.
%systemroot%\ls.cmd
dir %1 %2 %3 %4 %5 %6 %7 %8 %9
"Here, software is not made by armies of "Microserfs" employed by a giant corporation, but by armies of volunteer programmers who "donate" their code to the *public domain*."
public domain != OpenSource/Free Software
i'm worry about people dont getting this.
I have been using Linux since RH 5.1 - worked my way through various 6's, 7's, and 8.0. I spent a considerable amount of time learning and understanding Linux, and got pretty knowledgeable about it. I tried very hard to go all-Linux, all the time, but I couldn't and still can't do it. Here's why: apps. Yes, apps.
OK, the Office situation I consider adequately covered. Ditto Internet: email, browsing, etc. I even converted my years of Quicken data over to CBB. And I couldn't care less about games. But I still found myself needing to dual-boot, and I hate needing to dual-boot.
It's the less mainstream stuff that's still missing. On Windows, I have some excellent topographic map software, nicely integrated with my GPS unit. I have some excellent birding software, with videos and birdsongs. Great genealogical software. Great sound editing software. Etc., etc. I looked pretty hard, but was not able to find Linux equivalents.
When Windows 2000 came out, that was a turning point. So much more stable than Windows 98. I generally run Windows 2000 now, and hardly ever boot into Linux. I don't have the time or inclination to maintain 2 systems, so I'll stick with Windows 2000, because it's good enough.
I read a lot of articles and posts here about linux
/rant
not ready for the desktop.
Have you ever been on a production floor where
people use computers for work? real work?
What does games have to do with anything?
If a business decides to choose a desktop system
based on what games it can play. just shoot me.
Otherwise what can linux not do when it comes to
data entry, controlling devices, etc.. that real people do in places of business?
Well, I guess I'll give the guy a break - he is new on the block. :-)
He might very well understand the difference between "public domain" and the various FOSS licenses; but try to explain the distinction to a newbie. They get a serious case of MEGO (My Eyes Glaze Over), and the rest of the message is lost to them.
I took exception at first blush, too, but realized his point was that Linux is ready for quite a few MS-Windows power users.
Microsoft is to software what Budweiser is to beer.
I work for PC World in New Zealand, and I use Linux for pretty much everything. Writing copy, editing images, web, e-mail, syncing Palm Pilots, the works.
:)
:v)
In short, yes you can quite easily work in a PC magazine and use Linux. The problems come when you have to review Windows kit and programs, but fortunately I do the Linux column.
Oh, can't load MP3s into a Palm SD card from Linux yet, but I'm a-working on it
Vik
.... my guess is, 1000 years! +/- 300 yrs.
-pyrrho
I thought the interesting part of that quote is the fact that of course people at companies will contribute to open source (as their research organizations have been doing all along)... but by virtue of that they will not be coding "serfs" because they will get standing in the community. OSS is empowering to software engineers.
-pyrrho
This article is irrelevant and not an appropriate choice for Slashdot. It focuses in one individual (who is he?) and his "experience" while transitioning or probing the Linux waters. There is no contribution here.
windows 1.0 was never released.
Its really not that hard to jump into BSD from a linux position. I was bored a couple months ago and thought I'd put FreeBSD 5.0 on my laptop(Dell Latitude cpx j650, if anyone cares). I had 2 main thoughts. First, "This is just like linux". Second "Ports 0wnz". There are a few differences, like sysctl, but a couple hours of man page reading will get you up to speed. All your linux software is either ported or supported by binary compatibility. The only complaint I had was that restore from sleeping during X wasnt always successful. This got pretty annoying, so I moved it back to debian. But I will seriously consider putting FreeBSD on any computer I get in the future.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
just furthering the saying that "Linux is for people that hate Windows, BSD is for people that love UNIX".
:)
That's not insightful, that's a troll. And anyway, BSD is dying! (One good troll deserves another.)
Actually, I love Linux because it's closer to Unix than BSD is. And the parts of Linux I find most annoying are the most BSDish parts (like the behavior of ps). Actually, it's not even Linux I like so much as it is GNU. I find the GNU userspace and libraries far preferable to the BSD userspace and libraries.
I don't run FreeBSD or NetBSD because I work with commercial Unixes, and have found that Linux makes it a whole lot easier to do local testing and development. It's better than it used to be (when dealing with BSD meant spending most of your time on gratuitous incompatibilities like using "index()" for "strchr()"), but it's still annoyingly incompatible with real Unix. (Not that Linux is perfect, but it's better.)
I could care less about MS. I haven't used an MS system for anything except playing games since the late eighties.
Of course, this may change with the upcoming release of Debian GNU/BSD. The one thing I don't really like about Linux is, well, Linux. That is to say the kernel. If I could have a BSD kernel with GNU libraries and userland, I'd have (IMO), the best of all possible worlds.
But this guy is a moron.
//e.
It's hard to reconcile because for nearly 20 years I've mostly stayed on the one true Windows path.
I was a disciple from the beginning when it was called Dos, and kept the faith through the buggy, painful years of Windows 1.0 to 3.11.
Back when it was called Dos? (Now I'm the last persun who needs to be bitching about spulling, but it's DOS dammit.) I'm sorry but if he's going to include his MS DOS days in as part of the "Windows" era, then I'm going to start telling people that I've been using "Windows" systems since the early 80's when I had DOS 3.3 on my
The rest of the artical is about as informative with no real information about his experiance with using his newly installed OS. Unless there is a follow up from this noob I'm going to have to rate this whole artical -1, Overrated.
Really, I know what I'm doing...Ohhhh, look at the shiny buttons!
Though even if you don't defragment the hard disk, there is not a lot of risk that you'll mess anything up, but most people are told to do it, just to be on the safe side. Every repartitioning has a risk involved in it, and having a terribly fragmented FAT filesystem only makes it more risky to size down.
The article is a "nice" introduction for those new to Linux, but I suspect that the author (and most that dabble with Linux) generally know their way around computers. For these people, IT mindshare & performance are important issues, and it probably is no bonus to Linux that much hay has been made that Windows is substantially faster than Linux for many important technical tasks. Microprocessor report editor Peter Glaskowsky was recently quoted as saying a company could get better results using a Dell machine with Microsoft compilers than with a Linux machine and GCC compiler, for example. These are the types of stories & tests that technical users considering trying out open source systems pay attention to, not "nice" pieces that are basically uninformative.
Show me a Linux replacement for Adobe FrameMaker (or better yet, a port), and I'm there. Even at $599.40 or whatever Adobe's charging this week.
The original article was written from the point of view of a technical writer. IMO, any technical writer using MSTurd for documents over 100 pages in length needs to have his head examined. (Fuckin' Windows print drivers that won't print the same Word document the same way on two computers, meantime the FrameMaker d00dz are happily writing stuff in Frame on their Windoze laptops, then checking the files in to the source code control system at work, where they resume working on them from their Solaris and Windoze and Mac desktop boxen.)
I think FrameMaker's market share at the midrange of tech writers is pretty high, and for good reason. If you want to go beyond FrameMaker, you're talking even more money - Documentum-class document management systems, single sourcing from a big pile of XML into PDF, hardcopy, or HTML - but Linux ain't even in contention here.
It's sorta like Photoshop vs. The Gimp. The Gimp's great for Joe Tuxpack's vacation photos, but if you're doing color separations for inks that are requires to print on a billboard, and you wanna be damn sure it's the shade of puce that your Marketing department wast^H^H^H^Hpaid half a million bucks in researching, sorry kids, break out the Photoshop.
I know people may see this as "Propaganda", but considering the foothold Microsoft has on the industry, I think it's good to find more positive news relating to Linux. I find microsofts ad campain to be very propagandic. It's good to see some counter balance.
This story reminds me of my own conversion. It wasn't that long ago (This January) that I switched over to Linux completely. I was quite impressed with all the applications and how well they worked. I have always been a fan of GNU tools. It's nice to have both without dual booting.
How come the tech writers always manage to give an impression of stupidity in their articles on Slashdot? Must not have been many months since the last writer stumbled and mucked up the very subject...
Suggestion:
Make Linux easier to intall.
Let me say it again,
Make Linux easier to intall.
I'm getting all nostalgic now. Excuse me.
I think it's pathetic that someone who writes articles on PC use took this long to just check out linux. It isn't like it's some obscure OS! It's half as old as his PC experience!
The thought criminal, Chris Barton, shall be shunned and punished. Users may be excused but he betrayed his costly training and has mislead many. It's outright sabotage of the sort only a superstitious mind could fathom! The New Zealand Herald shall also be punished for printing such inflamatory and false propaganda. Paladium will cure such problems and make such reform efforts unnecessary! When people can no longer be lead astray, we will all be better off.
DMCA, Hollings, Palladium. What might have sounded like paranoia is now common sense.
A Gui that I have to move the mouse all the way down the screen to open a menu? A GUI without middle click paste? A GUI without virtual & multiple desktops? You think thats easier?
Keyboard shortcuts. Middle click paste only works in something like 50% of the X apps I use. My nvidia card comes with a handy virtual & multiple desktop feature in Windows, although it's not quite as good as X's.
Aside from not constantly rebooting. What do I do all day, surf the web, write some stuff, more surfing, email, write more stuff. There is nothing I do that I can do in windows that I cant do in Linux faster and more efficently. Oh, and windows refuses to play a bunch of divx and xvid videos. (Plays some, but not all).
Surfing the web is not what I use a computer for when I want to get things done. When I want to design a website or web based application, or create a professional looking PDF, or use Adobe (I know gimp is good but I already know Photoshop) sofware Windows is where I look. Find me a Linux program that can even come close to matching Adobe Premiere's features. And when I'm done working I can use the same box I develop on to play some games. Surfing the web doesn't cut it entertainment-wise for me. Oh yeah... ever tried to use the avaliable higher-end music & sound creation tools for linux? There may be a few decent MIDI sequencers but the rest is crap.
Yeah, I broke debian by aborting a dist-upgrade to sid. I also broke it once by "apt-get remove libc6". Does windows allow one-line (although you should use dselect really) instalation of almost any program you can think of?
Debian stable often lags behind recent software releases. When you try to upgrade with non-standard APT sources often things break. And once APT really fucks up, it's a massive chore to fix it. Dselect sucks hard for basic APT functions... there was a really good GTK app that served that purpose really well but I forget what it's called.
OK, I'm a little confused. Load up a terminal, type "ssh user@host" and it just works. What mroe do you want from an SSH app? Either way, Putty for debian
Why should I have to type a mangled command line each time I connect because I require logging (yes, a shell script would fix this, but why should I have to learn shell scripting [or even write a script] simply to get a feature that many Windows SSH clients have already? Similarily, I make heavy use of proxies for SSH. Pain in the ass at a command line. Oh... and since you've enlightened me on the existence of a version of PuTTY for debian, maybe you can show me a xterm that has search capabilities in the scrollback buffer instead of making me pipe output?
This argument could go on and on, nitpicking over the painful details. Instead, why not agree that, for some people, using both Windows and *nix simultaneously saves more time than using one or the other? For example, I have a simple batch script that spawns a remote X copy of Gaim, a GTK AIM client (the native win32 version sucks hard), each time I load Windows. I do this because Gaim saves me time, it is more functional than any Windows AIM program I've seen.
Instead of vehemently supporting one system over the other blindly, one should support the elements of the OS that actually benefit them. I'll fight to the death that Linux is a better, faster, more efficient, and more stable server platform than any MS product. However, I'm not going to lie to myself that all the painful hours of meticulously setting up an X desktop that suits my needs, simply to miss all my favorite Apps, is easier or faster than dealing with Windows' bullshit. I've spent hundreds of hours carefully and consistently trying my hardest to configure a Linux desktop that suits my needs, and have even gotten somewhat close on several seperate occasions to a system that satisfies me. I'm ready to give up. If GNU/Linux were a mature desktop OS, it wouldn't be so goddamn hard to set up. I'm really picky about what features
LEARNING, n. The kind of ignorance distinguishing the studious. A. Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary
People, the guy writes for the New Zealand News, not Nework Computing. His audience is people who want to be informed about technology without being made to feel stupid about it.
The use of quotes is one technique to introduce terms in a way that acknowledges that the terms might be new to Windows users. The author wrote, "If you don't know how to defrag, you're probably not ready for the Linux experience." Note that he didn't say, "I don't know what defrag means." He wrote it in a way that made readers realize that there is some technical stuff going on with a Linux installation that might be new to them.
While it's funny to think that there are people out there who don't know how to defrag a disc or set up dual booting, or select the right distribution for their needs, the truth is that if Linux is going to penetrate the skulls of Joe and Joan Public, they'll need gentle introductions like the one provided by Mr. Barton.
I love to ride bicycles. But I hate going into a bike shop where the people who work their look down their nose at me simply because I don't shave my legs and ride a Lightspeed. If you've ever been in a bike shop like that, you know what it's like to be a Windows user confronted by sneering Linux know-it-alls. The "you're an idiot" mentality of so many Linux users is the opposite of true evangelism.
Chris Barton has the right approach to introducing Windows users to Linux in a non-threatening way. Kudos to the man.
Read the EFF's Fair Use FAQ
"Three days ago I accepted Jesus Christ into my life and while I'm not yet a convert, the experience has shaken my faith in Catholicism/Judaism/Lutheranism..."
Why do OS converts, Mac evangelists, and Linux gurus always sound like religious fanatics? Computers are wonderful things, but they should not fill any sort of philosophical, spiritual, or political void in your life.
One of my favourite analogies when it comes to M$ and Linux comes from something I saw a couple of summers ago. Some soccer club was doing a fund raiser and selling food at a soccer tournament. They had bar-b-ques fired up, real beef burgers going, a salad bar where you could get the fixings you wanted for it and although it was mostly people improvising stuff they were serving up a damn good burger.
Half a block away there was a McDonalds, and me and some of the other watched people leave the stands, walk to the McDonalds and come back with a McDonalds hamburger (or whatever, Big Mac or what have you). The burgers the soccer club was selling were cheaper, clearly better by any definition of a burger and right there for the taking. The only explanation me and my friends could come up with for why people would walk to the McDonalds is brand.
Weird weird stuff.
Please check out our Installfest site. This is intended to install linux, yes, and get people started, yes. But most of all it will put the people getting started in touch with local people who can and will provide them with additional information in the future. It's about promoting linux in the community, and forming a community around it.
I have to say that "ordinary people" are getting more and more sophisticated. People are learning about their own computers at a much deeper level than ever before -- configuring a machine to, say, share a printer over a network is common knowledge these days, part of what is considered basic computer literacy , and guess what? This knowledge and these skills are transferrable.
Going from one pointy-clicky interface on a Windows PC and setting it up for email, file and print sharing, to another pointy-clicky interface on, say, SuSE, to do the same things is a lot easier than when way back when, when we had to explain to people what a network could do for them in the first place. Windows helped crack open the window to learning to use a computer, and Linux turns it into a door--a great big double door to a very large house, with a tiled and heated indoor pool, a marble sunken jacuzzi and a conservatory. They just don't want to go back to their overpriced little council flat of a Windows operating system after seeing what they can do with Linux running on the same machine.
There was a time when MS "wasn't for ordinary peoples' desktops", either. That was the domain of Apple, remember?
LINUX. Because in a world without fences, who needs Gates?
LOL, this is so funny.
:))
Dude, ever seen a girl? had a girlfriend? probably not.
Hell, I dont know what OS im using now. Cos, I earn enough to hire like 40 linux/mac/windows whatever dogs like you.
bow wow doggie
I did C/++ development work on DOS/Unix in the early 90's, but our desktops were primarily all Macs, I loved Macs then and it was a FAR superior OS till Win3.11 rolled out, that is when I made the switch. I remember laughing at a co-worker playing with Win2.0!
Course it will be awhile till I switch to Linux, I currently develop Access Apps for a living. Don't laugh, it's a decent living. Maybe it's time to learn MySQL, Python, and Java?!?!
CrossOver Office does not support Access XP...
So basically, "GNU/Linux sucks because Adobe won't port Photoshop to it."
Here's a great OS that doesn't cost any money, it's more secure than Windows, it's more stable, it's faster and some people even say that it's easier to use. In addition, Microsoft has broken the law more than once, engages in crooked business practices, and is run by a money-grubbing asshole.
If you need software that you can only get for Windows (and CrossOver won't cut it), use Windows. Whatever works best for you.
If you want to complain about a lack of software, write a letter (snail mail, not e-mail) to the company that publishes what you need - it's not the Free software community's fault that Adobe and Macromedia don't care about GNU/Linux.
The US Army: promoting democracy through unquestioned obedience
Australasia's largest consumer electronics shop, Dick Smith's provides pre-built systems off the shelf, with LINUX and OO already installed .
Again, if North American and European retailers aren't up with the programme, their loss
Australia and New Zealand are regarded as test markets for the introduction of new computing and electronics gizmos for the rest of the world because it's a culturally similar market, yet smaller and more receptive to new technology, particularly when it can be used to communicate with the rest of the world.
What you see succeed down here will soon take root in North America and Europe.
With Windows, you can run an executable file on just about any Windows box from Win95 through XP
Not true. Ever run Results/PLUS, Paradigm, Mailers+4, Blackbaud apps, or any of the other stuff that are targeted at Development Directors (hint: they bring money into an organization). Win version compatibility is a friggen nightmare. WinWord is just awful across versions.
However, with Linux, the APIs keep changing.This is where you tipped your hand.
Mrs Betty Blow, to create a character, is Joe Blow's wife. She has quite different wishes to the tech writer in the article. She has (IMHO) been poorly served by Windows et al in the past.
What she wants:
- Email
- Web browsing
- Letter writing
- Printing
- Solitaire
- That's it.
What she doesn't want to do:
- Change the mouse speed
- Change the colour scheme
- Change the monitor settings
- Change the time zone
- Muck about with screen savers
- Add or remove programs
- Select new hardware eg printers
- Play games other than Solitaire
- Use Internet chat
- Use fancy web sites with streaming audio etc
Hackers, you know how to use a system like Debian to build a setup that does these simple tasks. Just be local and be around. Use SSH or TightVNC to help sort out problems if you want.
By contrast, Windows presents a bewildering world full of control panels and other scary things. Betty's never going to touch them, so why clutter up the interface by presenting them? I don't know how many people fall into the Betty category but I'm willing to bet it's a lot more than we might think...
You MUST be NEW here.
Welcome to crapdot. HAND!!!!11!!
tired of these tech-writer Linux articles? I am.
When you plug a digital camera into a Linux box, it will say something about detecting a USB device and it will be a new disk drive, which you can mount by hand {cop-out method} or configure auto-mounting {harder, but the proper way}. Same with a slot-reader.
That's one thing the USB people did get right, I think -- making cameras act like disks. I wouldn't be surprised if the next generation actually create an index.htm file on the fly so you can view your shots in your web browser. Maybe even a special file that, when you try to read it,
Older digital cameras that plug into the serial port are less straightforward, as you generally have to use a command-line utility to download pictures from the camera to your HDD. But whatever you have to do - even if Dick and Harry have to cobble their own driver together on the spot - you only have to learn it once.
Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
Defragging makes the resizing of the Windows partition easier. If the drive is fragmented enough, it would even make the resizing impossible. InstallFests routinely ask installees to do this in advance, since it can take quite a bit of the installer's time sitting there waiting for a defrag to finish.
LordBodak's journal.
What a crock of shit. So what, how many Linux users are turning to Windows cause of the amount of time it takes to configure the bullshit and keep up with the changes?
to hack out a ppp script that worked when i was slackware newb back in '95
;))
.bat boot menus in ANSI color cause linux is everything DOS should have been and more and kids that get to have it to start with now are lucky indeed.
and i was so happy i got on bx and got on irc..
and i thought iw as the l33t3st thing around (i was 15 in '95
but it was practically useless beyond that.. i ran console only for a long time
if you think linux's learning curve is steep now, i tused to be like staring up a 15 mile high 90 degree angled glacier with only your chewed fingers nails with which to cling to the ice
having said that i wish i had found linux when i was writing
How plausible would a parallel article have been (a few years back), perhaps in Byte or Dr. Dobbs announcing that Amiga was ready for the masses?
:))
:) *That's* why suddenly there are complete systems that even many Windows diehards admit are either "good enough" or nearly there -- because it's not sudden at all.
(If someone can point to one, I'll take this back, but I don't *think* Amiga -- or BeOS, or a lot of others -- ever got past the Beautiful Swandive phase, no matter how nice they are, or how many people persist in not burying them
Bob Young's book about Red Hat's (so-far) success is titled "Under the Radar" -- seems like an apt phrase not just for Red Hat but more generally for the way Linux (or, to be fair, BSD) desktops have semi-suddenly become hip to heap praise on, much of it deserved.
OpenOffice, AbiWord, KOffice, Mozilla, the various free programming languages, the various free desktop environments, (etc etc) have been evolving for years, and the Free software matrix is both complete and flexible enough that a Grand Unified Final Answer hasn't been necessary. Rough edges are still there, probably always will be, but they demonstrate how dynamic the whole process is. Every minor release of GCC shows this, in fact
timothy
jrnl: http://tinyurl.com/c2l8yr / foes: http://tinyurl.com/ckjno5
while i've never used gentoo as a desktop i found the unreal 2003 demo that came bootable on a livecd something fun to play with
and having the ability to show off a nice game like that might help win some converts "ooooh pretty"
i've never tried knoppix but it seems like no one says anything bad about it
i'm kinda curious how it differs from debian if someone wants to give a quick rundown
Windows was never called DOS.
That's Like saying a cell phone used to be called a telegraph.
Microsoft could never have made something as stable as DOS.
For a "Technical Writer" following Windows for "20 years" this guy sure doesn't know his history.
meinBobo
next "question"
I use Linux because 6 or 7 years ago I wanted to learn about *nix. I saw a RedHat box at babbages and bought it. Since then I have learned enough about Linux to put together my own distro. I considered doing just that, but then I smelled the coffee and realized the world does not need yet another Linux distro, and Debian and Gentoo are already doing a great job, IMO.
I have also used BSD, which is IMO inferior to Linux as a workstation. The userland tools that come with BSD aren't as nice as all the GNU tools I know and love. Linux also supports a lot more hardware, for both servers and workstations.
These days I do all my work in *nix - mostly Linux, sometimes BSD, and rarely OS X.
Do I hate Windows. You bet. Is that why I use Linux? Hell no; I use Linux because it's what gets the job done for me. My second choice would be OS X, then BSD.
My use of Linux has nothing to do with Windows. Coincidentally, I do not like Windows.
Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken - Tyler Durden
As I recall, feature-wise, I think the software seemed to be far more sophisticated than any of the programs she was using under windows. The sticking point, however, was the interface. The software was (is?) appeared to be maintained by "professional" geneaologists which meant that it had all kinds of features that my mother had only the vaguest of idea of what they were. In the end, I wound up setting her up with vmware so she could use what she was used to. But the fact is, there is (or at least was several years ago) a very sophisticated geneaology program for unix, that seemed to be well mainained, but a little too advanced for the casual user. I haven't looked at in years, but I would expect that it has probably been updated considerably since then...
Shop Smart, Shop S-mart!
So what follows is only my opinion of what I think is best for the open source community and the end user as a whole.
Lead by example: Despite all the best technical arguments in the world, people's curiosity is tweaked by what appears to be different. "Wow that windows looks different?", "It's not windows." (count to 5 in head) "Really?.. well what is it?" Whatever your opinions are of Lindows and their ilk, the reality is that they are keeping things similar, but making them a little different. People look at it seriously and wonder what it is like to use, whether it will address some of the things that they didn't like about Windows etc. The more end users that linux attracts the more momentum to polish the experience. There is no reason at all why linux can't be polished, it's just usually because the community looks down on form over function. Unfortunately the mums and dads of the world don't know much about the function and can only judge by the form.
One of our complaints about windows is that it hides things from us or tries to second guess what we want - this is often held up by the non-techinical types as windows biggest strength. No amount of arguing that cmd.exe is crap will affect them.
I marvel at the mum and dad computer user because they treat computers as tools (as they really are). That is my mother will boot the machine, type in an email, send it, read her other messages and then turn the computer off. On the other hand I like to leave my machine on if not constantly, then at least for 8 or 9 hours at a stretch. Arguments on Stability simply don't impress her unless something crashes in the 20 minutes that she is using the machine (which is very rare).
One linux zealot I knew would constantly sprout the "linux is free" line. That would get people in in droves. He was quite happy to run off copies of mandrake or slackware and give them to those that were interested, but soon as they came to ask him questions (usually on how to get the modem working) it was "RTFM" or he'd help but make them feel stupid the entire time. So linux wasn't free because it was a trade off for these people of time versus money.
So now, I try to get linux running somewhere visible and quietly let others come to me to ask about it rather than taking it on the road. The more non-technical people we get championing linux the better because they will talk about it in "real world" terms and they will make the best advocates.
I just can't be bothered.
Part of the license of Adobe products goes to pay for Pantone compatibility. Until someone creates an open standard for color, free software equivalents will have a very hard time matching utility value.
---------
Together, we will drive the rats from the tundra.
Considering he said he used more than one OS in the article, I find it amusing that you post something misinformed and get modded up by other misinformed Slashbots. Good ol' groupthink. Great work, people!
Next.
"Sufferin' succotash."
MS is so stagnant with apps their use of the word innovation is laughable. Innovation - a new idea or method. Maybe some people can learn.
Now that would rock his pathetic world!
And that's before we give him the G5 to play with ...
Check out the website if you are interested
http://installfest.linux.net.nz
(related to this article)
/sig
It's also the reason why most of the people who argue for windows are so bad at it. Whereas most linux people have to suffer windows at some point and so have a much wider perspective (and are better able to pick it's faults).
Nerd: Derogatory term typically directed at anybody with a lower Slashdot ID than you.
I think anyone would be 'impressed' with Linux after 5 minutes of using it, I know I was. But what pissed me off was after the initial 'hey this looks cool' period and you actually try and get something done. Surfing the web, checking e-mail, formatting a disk, sharing some mp3s with friends etc... stuff which takes a few clicks of the mouse on windows becomes a complicated chore under Linux, and you quickly appreciate just how much work has gone into making Windows that much more productive and easy to use. Ask this guy what he thinks of it after a month or so of using it.
I.O.U One Sig.
I've been using the National Geographic TOPO! maps under wine flawlessly for over a year, nicely integrated into my GPS unit.
I've yet to see any bug in it -- the program was written to run in Windows 95, so nothing fancy about it -- just great software.
I also ran windows-only voting software for the Pacific Green Party CC elections last two years in a row under Linux with WINE.
It's the same software used in New York and Cambridge for their Choice/Single-Transferable Voting. Again, worked without a hitch. In fact, there are few programs that don't work that I run across, even specialty programs such as the two above -- again, working great in Linux.
Seth Woolley
Coordinating Committee Member,
Pacific Green Party of Oregon
I guess the sentence wasn't complete. It should have said
"Every company must have the ability to innovate and improve its products. So we can rip-off their ideas and sell them as ours." - Bill Gates
There are two rules for success:
1. Never tell everything you know.
Most computer users don't know how to defrag their hard drive, and would be scared to carry out such a frightening sounding operation.
Remind me again why we want Linux to take off on Joe User's desktop? Isn't it hard enough giving free tech support for friends-and-families Windows installations without having to deal with setting up and fixing various Linux distros? In response to "Can I get product X for my machine", would you rather answer "Yes, plus a Dummies book for it" rather than "Not as such, but I'll spend four days finding an alternative, another two days installing it, then an indefinite amount of time trawling newsgroups and fora to give you free tech support for it."
Look, I'll spell it out. If you're not a software developer, then you're not contributing, and I don't want to support you, nor to have you bombard the developers of my favourite apps with appeals to make it idiot proof. I don't want idiot proof apps written for the benefit of Joe User. If I wanted that, I'd have stuck with Windows.
If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
But do email one of them.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
Just in case you were wondering, I'm not a fucking idiot ...
I'm still trying to find an SSH app for X that I like
I am not wondering at all.
And these are the technologically proficient...
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
You haven't read how it all started, have you?
Karma: Positive (probably because of superiour intellect)
If you will remember I specifically said, "Now I'm the last persun who needs to be bitching about spulling," in my original post.
My point is that it's a copy editors JOB to catch spelling mistakes and make sure the article looks professional. Not to put them into articles.
You, on the other hand, are just some grammar Nazi who does not understand the difference between writing and being an English teacher.
But hey, that's probably why you love making personal attacks at people for no real reason. Every English teacher I ever had did the same thing. Must come from the fact that reading people who have original thoughts all the time when you wouldn't know one if it bit you in the ass gets to ya eh?
(PS. I even spell checked this post for you so you can read it for what it is instead of trying to police my spelling. Do I get a gold star now teacher?)
Really, I know what I'm doing...Ohhhh, look at the shiny buttons!
FYI, I just installed a Trendware wireless card in a W98 laptop to replace the D-Link which got smashed when my baby pushed it off the table... It's not just Linux, they don't seem to work too well under Windows either. It was cheap, but I wish I'd read some reviews before getting it.
Linux Gamers' FAQ
Hooray for technical writers!
"How many light bulbs does it take to change a person?" --BMcC-->
No one worth a penny per hour would fucking setup anything on Genital-too as a server in production. It refers to itself as not stable for a long time (being an RC doesn't sound like a server) and is now forked. FreeBSD, the good stuff Genital-too rips off, is a real OS. Stable. Fast. Coherent. Well documented. If I were to use Lin-sux, the populist asshole kernel and Operating System of the Day with random compilers, random libraries and random everything per distribution and version, I would take RedHat or Debian, the rest can shove it.
You define an armchair Linux user (most certainly not a *NIX or *BSD user). "I only use Windows for games." And email, and chatting, and browsing, and document editing, and coding.....)
And being a Genital-too fan is implies fanaticism. You aren't supposed to use what you like; you are supposed to use what's best for the production environment. No one likes Solaris L&F, but its one of the best OE for certain things.
budding homosexual (Chris Barton) finds two openly gay individuals who are willing to not only show him the lifestyle, but also show him linux.
Barton is shocked and amazed that people can just copy software and give it to others. After getting over this madness, he is ass-isted with installing Linux. He delves into the mysteries of Defrag, 'dual booting', leather shorts, and mustaches.
He goes into how he will be attending the gay pride festival every year from now on, as well as the linux installfest.
His new OS was installed in 10 minutes, his printer in another 10, and his modem only took an hour or so to set up. How great!
Finally, he is amazed that, unlike w1nd0z3, there are several different programs you can run, and he is no longer confined to one functional web browser, he can now use one of at least three semi-functional versions, and all of them are free, unlike IE.
So now, both his mind and buttocks are open to new experiences.
Manipulate the moderator system! Mod someone as "overrated" today.
My camera came with Windows driverss that were the biggest POS I have *ever* encountered. The install process (Win98 SE) involved so many reboots and other vagueness, I had GPhoto2 built from source and installed on my laptop (plus a kernel rebuild to include USB-fs which I had left out as I didn't own any USB peripherals) hours before the Windows reboot-a-thon stopped. GPhotos2 works perfectly, while the Windows drivers are flakey and the app is crap.
Linux on the desktop is most likely to suceed where manfacturers include a properly configured install with their hardware, ordinary people don't do much more then plug in peripherals.
Xix.
"Everything is adjustable, provided you have the right tools"
Poke around you'll find at least one Linux destro that will make you want to return to Microsoft.
I fell in love with a platform a few years back and to spite temptation I've stayed with it.
I'm refering to the *nix platform BTW. (As in posix based command line oses)
Hehe.
Presumming the tech writer came from MsDos to Windows and not from MsBasic to Windows it's likely this person has considerable technical skill.
Dos as complex as it is dose discurage programming but encurages tweeking. Windows discurages (and occasionally punishes) tweeking.
Posix systems encurage tweeking and programming and hacking at all levels. Sadly that includes black hats.
Windows says "Oh don't worry users can't do that" Linux says "Here's how to do it and how to prevent it and how to thwart that and protect against the twarting."
Oh yeah I hear Linux.com is paying for HOW TOs... In case he's thinking of making a living with posix systems.
I don't actually exist.
damnit, that was flamebait, cmon, stupid moderators. at least you didnt go and do informative on it
Good luck, Tim, wherever you are.
Finding God in a Dog
This is not funny. Not at all. Whoever has moderated it as such is apparently out of her mind. I am being very serious right now. I hope the person who has marked my post as funny will admit and correct her terrible mistake. Thank you.
Karma: Positive (probably because of superiour intellect)