Who would recommend a distro like that to a newbie?
I would. As for the 'partition by hand using fdisk' thing, the install guide clearly holds your hand through this entire process, explaining why you're doing what you're doing, and suggesting partition sizes and things like that to you. Also, it's very easy for a new user to keep their system patched and totally up to date (which is a VERY good thing as we all know). I think it's a great learning experience for any new linux user because from the start, they'll have a handle on their system, and they will be more able to fix a problem that they run into because of that. If they're not able to solve something themselves, their forums are -very- helpful, I haven't run into a problem I couldn't solve in there, including a very nice dual head display setup that I was having one hell of a time taking care of, until I found a very good step by step on how to get it working in the gentoo forums. Yeah, gentoo is complicated, but it's a good learning experience, and it's backed by a very patient and happy to help community who act like there's nothing they'd rather be doing than getting your system working.
And while I am not a linux newbie, I certainly am no guru (yet:^)
And this is one thing I really love about gentoo. Especially if you're a newbie to linux (I wasn't, but I like you, was certainly no master). Following the installation guide that gentoo provides was a very educational experience for me. Not only does it tell you step by step what to do to get your system up and running, it tells you WHY you're doing it. I was very impressed with the instructions. Oh, and when I ran into any problems at all, their forums had the answer, and when they didn't have the answer, someone responded to my post within a matter of a couple hours, and had the solution to my question.
In my opinion, a mile wide/inch deep skillset gets you nowhere. If a resume passed my desk with 50 million skills and 5 years total experience, I am going to question that resume right to the circular file. But maybe that's just me.
I don't know if there's any manager types reading this (I'm sure there aren't many now that the story is 2 days old) but ok, so you say that 5 years exp and a bunch of skills just won't fly with you. Well check out my situation. I run the tech dept for a 10 man hosting company, so a CIO or CTO title really won't mean a damn bit more than Sysadmin or something like that, agreed? Due to the fact that there's only a few of us, I pretty much handle everything, server upgrades, future hardware planning, server maintenence, network administration, script programming for simplifying tasks, firewall administration... It's a pretty long list, I'd say I'm extremely proficient at most of it, and 'acceptable' at the worst of the stuff that I do. I've pretty much hit the ceiling as far as things that I can do here, so I'm probably screwed? I've been contemplating UofPhoenix just to get a degree, but from what I'm understanding from a lot of the posts here, most people would want a state school... What do the people of/. think of private universities for someone who is a full time tech as opposed to taking years off and getting out of the game in order to pursue a state issued degree?
Hahah, You know, that reminds me of this post f'ing classic.
PS: I swear for some reason, if I read that post I won't get any work done for the rest of the day because I'll still be laughing about it, I don't even know why I like it that much.
I second that, geeklog is pretty far ahead of the pack last I checked. I had set up a site for launch (socalsnowboarding.com shameless plug) with it and it was awesome. Easy polling system, with polling administrators (and any other type of administrators you can imagine or create), so certain people could make polls (or not make them) news stuff, RSS feeds, all kinds of plugins. I am in no way affiliated with geeklog, but I definitely support their product. The only downfall it had when I used it was a lack of a members search or members directory, so it was hard to find someone and leave a message from them, get their AIM/YIM/MSN IDs or contact them.. Hopefully they've fixed that, because I've gotten approval from some mtns and would like to take the snowboarding site live again, and a members search/directory would be the icing on the cake.
" You are aware that you can get any USB 2 button mouse, assign the 2nd button to Ctrl-Click to pull up the "Contextual Menus" right."
Yes. This is not very useful on a laptop though, when the idea is to have a machine that doesn't need any external peripherals for at least two hours at a time...
How about the fact that you just hold down the mouse button for a second and the contextual menus pop up? Then again, there's always the ctrl key.. really no big deal. I actually love the single mouse button on the laptops, and have grown to hate laptops with 2 buttons. It just feels a lot better having that one big button there, you never hit the wrong button, you can hit it with your left hand or your right, whichever's more convenient... now that I think about it, have you ever actually tried using one of these laptops?
Argh, I know i've got no class for replying to myself, but I had a thought, and figured this is the place to ask it if anyplace. I'm sure it won't be long before someone's putting a 15 or 17"ers keyboard on their 12" powerbook.. Is there really anything behind it? They're the same size, I'm thinking you could probably swap k/bs out, but I guess you wouldn't have the light sensor to accompany it.. Does this seem somewhat plausable? My guess is that there's probably more to it than just replacing a keyboard, otherwise they'd offer it. In any case, I know there's someone on slashdot who owns a 15 or 17 that knows how the backlight k/b works who would probably be able to tell us whether or not they think it would work.
Don't forget the backlit keyboard, which auto-detects when the lights dim enough to require it.
Guh, don't even get me started, it's not on the model *I* want:~( I think that would be awesome, and I really want it.. However, I want the 12", the low end (i'm used to a lombard, so any system is a step up, and I dig the 12" for the portability and weight) and dammit, I WANT A F'ING BACKLIT KEYBOARD. But then again, I chalk it up as a "wow, that's cool, but not totally necessary." sort of thing, so I'm sure i'll get by:)
Why not just do something like this in httpd.conf and forget about them?
Redirect permanent/ad.php http://127.0.0.1/
Or create a page saying that the reason they were directed to that site was because they were infected with spyware. Along with a link to adaware (or spybot's) download page so that they CAN stop using adware/spyware. Most people who are hitting that page probably don't even know why. They're probably the people who call us and say someone's taken over their computer and changed their browser settings and want us to fix it over the phone.
You know what's pretty cool, A couple stations around here actually input their songs and their EXACT time played in real time on their website, I liked it. There were a couple times I was in the car, heard the song, checked the clock and got the name, very exact, really nice and totally helpful.
WUSB is obviously a solution in search of a problem.
Yeah, i'm gunna have to go ahead n'..disagree with ya' there...
Sure, you don't want to trade in your USB cable for a power cable, but what about things where you could use the range of bluetooth, and the speed of USB, You don't think it would be good for things like digital cameras? where you use AA anyway. How about a printer, which has a separate power cable as it is, now the printer only has 1 cable instead of 2. Scanners? Same deal, and that'd be a nice application. I wouldn't mind a little WUSB Flash drive.. Sure, it would work over BT, but the speed would blow... Wireless K/b and Mice.. well, I don't like them, but bluetooth is good for that. We've got enough f'ing wires now as it is. I think there's a lot of useful reasons to have WUSB, yes, bluetooth is still useful, still good for its applications, but I think WUSB would be great for stuff that already uses regular alkaline batteries or already have a power cable where it needs more speed than BT. It's a perfect solution, for an annoying problem. I want as few wires as humanly possible.. I'll be happy when all i've got is power cables, hehe. Personally, I can't wait for wireless PC speakers:)
I have a DVD player in my Ranger that can handle data DVDs with MP3s. Approx. 450 songs. This means just as much audio as a Mini iPod. My entire music library sits on 6 discs.
Offtopic I know, but you don't have an email address listed, i've got that same DVD player in my silverado, and you're right, the thing is GREAT for toting around a lot of music, my whole setup for the screen, the DVD player, and a custom dash was less than the price of an ipod mini.. (ps: if you check out the pictures, they're a bit outdated, i've since ditched the blaupunkt, which was also a great way to tote a lot of music, for the pyle that you've got, and covered up the hole where the bp was, and moved the DVD to where it cannot be seen, much nicer. also the work was done by ACC in Garden Grove, CA.)
Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if everything else but the iBook gets an update within two weeks. (This also signals to me that the iMac will either receive a noticeable speed bump, or go G5.)
Don't tease me like that, i've had my eye on a 12" powerbook for the past few months. I'm sure there will be no revision in the next couple weeks, because I'm not going to buy one until another month or so, THAT is when they'll release the new line, 2 weeks to a month after I finally crack down and buy my powerbook.
Unix environment (home turf/holy grail for hackers) with a usually unsophisticated (wrt security) users who have no admin to watch over them.
I hadn't even thought of this until I read your statement, but there may be a bright side... In OS X you don't run as an administrator, so you can only jack up your own stuff... Yeah, it still sucks that there's a trojan out there for the mighty X, but at least it's less harmful than the thousands out there for Windows.
We don't give Microsoft a free pass, and it's time we stopped giving Google the benefit of the doubt. This whole GMail thing REEKS of privacy abuse potential.
I don't think that's neccessarily the case.. I read the gmail site and yeah, they're going to use the information in your emails to serve ads, but they say that no human will ever read the message. It will be scanned for ad relevance. Now I'm going to give them the benfefit of the doubt because Google has never proven themselves unworthy of it. They give the community what the community wants. They come up with new and original ideas, and use them in an efficient manner..
Microsoft, on the other hand, which you use for your comparison, has proven themselves to be a bit shady. I won't say totally untrustworthy, because there's a motive behind every move, DRM, bunding of programs, integration of IE, whatever, they may honestly think they're doing something to make the user experience easy, I'm not standing up for them, nor am I damning them. I do however want to point out that they've done some shady things in the past, that's why they're being sued by everybody, anti-trust laws, anti-competitive practices, whatever. I've never seen google in court for unfair business practices, and they seem to genuinely have the user's experience in mind, and they go about providing it in a nice simple manner.
But in reality, someone making $500,000 a year already spends as much as he is likely to spend on goods and services. Adding $50,000 to his income doesn't mean another $50,000 in circulation.
But hiring someone who does not have a job and paying him $50,000 means that most of that money will be circulated back through the economy.
I'm not unemployed, I am paid a lot less than I'd like to be, if you would like to give me an extra $50k, I -promise- to spend it all and put it right back into circulation:)
Nothing was hidden. They showed you everything and discussed it in a open mature manner. And this was all at about 4 PM.
Shit you'll never see that here. Not even at 2am WITH warnings. However it appears that they're allowed to swear on CNN, and they'll show GRAPHIC violence, kidnapping, abuse, etc with no warning at any time of day. I agree, it's retarded.
Not that I'm one of them. I'm boycotting MS best I can. Finally got Mozilla Firefox installed on my Winboxen. Slowly I purge my home of All Things Microsoft.
I used to feel this way as well, but I've got to admit, that XBox is one badass game machine, I was all about the ps2 for the longest time and couldn't justify an XBox, eventually I got one after playing multiplayer halo with my neighbors, now we've got all of our systems networked and bigger games, and I'm finding some outstanding games for that thing.. Halo (for multiplayer, not impressed by single), Mafia, The Suffering, Fuzion Frenzy (hehe), Amped, and many more, there's not as many games as the PS2, but the ones that are out there are pretty good.
Anyhow, what your comment and my rant made me realize, well, not realize, but put into words, is that Microsoft makes some great hardware. The XBox is great, their keyboards are good, their mice are good, I'm wondering, if they didn't have to deal with so much stuff being piled on so much stuff and so many third party drivers and processors n' stuff.. If MS made their own hardware, would their OS be more stable, and would they be a 'better company'? Basically, if MS were doing the same thing as Apple, would everyone still boycot them? Would they be carrying on all of these lawsuits? Or would they be more of a socially acceptable and fair business?
Disclaimer: This is -not- an anti-ms or pro-ms rant, it's just a rant, don't read more into it than is stated;)
One question - I haven't played it, so I don't know - but - what do you like about Ninja Gaiden so much?
Off Topic, I know, but I had to butt in here... I got Gaiden when it came out and couldn't stand the way the camera follows you.. if you go around a corner you lose sight of your char until you move forward a little, more than a little bit annoying, I took it back and traded it in for The Suffering, which my g/f and neighbors will sit and watch for quite a while without getting bored.
but does this hurt MicroSoft's ability (and willingness) to do the same behaviour again and again?
I think it will. Maybe not THIS time, but say they get slapped by 4 countries this way, all of a sudden it's 2B USD, it may not be much, it won't be enough to bring them to their knees, but it gets the message across that they're not going to get away for free. It may not be a big fine, to them, but it's a fair enough fine that if they get busted a few more times it'll start to make a dent, and they'll be forced to change their ways before someone else comes knockin'.
Seems to me Microsoft might as well start playing hardball here - Drop the price of an Xbox to $0, offer tracks on the new music service for $0.50, charge $10 or give away copies of Enterprise Architect, take a few high profile clients and offer huge discounts for OS and Office site licenses.
I'm onto you, you just want a free X Box!
-matt
PS: So do I, I hope they take your idea into consideration!
Slashdot Mirror
Who would recommend a distro like that to a newbie?
I would. As for the 'partition by hand using fdisk' thing, the install guide clearly holds your hand through this entire process, explaining why you're doing what you're doing, and suggesting partition sizes and things like that to you. Also, it's very easy for a new user to keep their system patched and totally up to date (which is a VERY good thing as we all know). I think it's a great learning experience for any new linux user because from the start, they'll have a handle on their system, and they will be more able to fix a problem that they run into because of that. If they're not able to solve something themselves, their forums are -very- helpful, I haven't run into a problem I couldn't solve in there, including a very nice dual head display setup that I was having one hell of a time taking care of, until I found a very good step by step on how to get it working in the gentoo forums. Yeah, gentoo is complicated, but it's a good learning experience, and it's backed by a very patient and happy to help community who act like there's nothing they'd rather be doing than getting your system working.
-matt
And while I am not a linux newbie, I certainly am no guru (yet :^)
And this is one thing I really love about gentoo. Especially if you're a newbie to linux (I wasn't, but I like you, was certainly no master). Following the installation guide that gentoo provides was a very educational experience for me. Not only does it tell you step by step what to do to get your system up and running, it tells you WHY you're doing it. I was very impressed with the instructions. Oh, and when I ran into any problems at all, their forums had the answer, and when they didn't have the answer, someone responded to my post within a matter of a couple hours, and had the solution to my question.
-matt
In my opinion, a mile wide/inch deep skillset gets you nowhere. If a resume passed my desk with 50 million skills and 5 years total experience, I am going to question that resume right to the circular file. But maybe that's just me.
/. think of private universities for someone who is a full time tech as opposed to taking years off and getting out of the game in order to pursue a state issued degree?
I don't know if there's any manager types reading this (I'm sure there aren't many now that the story is 2 days old) but ok, so you say that 5 years exp and a bunch of skills just won't fly with you. Well check out my situation. I run the tech dept for a 10 man hosting company, so a CIO or CTO title really won't mean a damn bit more than Sysadmin or something like that, agreed? Due to the fact that there's only a few of us, I pretty much handle everything, server upgrades, future hardware planning, server maintenence, network administration, script programming for simplifying tasks, firewall administration... It's a pretty long list, I'd say I'm extremely proficient at most of it, and 'acceptable' at the worst of the stuff that I do. I've pretty much hit the ceiling as far as things that I can do here, so I'm probably screwed? I've been contemplating UofPhoenix just to get a degree, but from what I'm understanding from a lot of the posts here, most people would want a state school... What do the people of
Hahah, You know, that reminds me of this post f'ing classic.
PS: I swear for some reason, if I read that post I won't get any work done for the rest of the day because I'll still be laughing about it, I don't even know why I like it that much.
I second that, geeklog is pretty far ahead of the pack last I checked. I had set up a site for launch (socalsnowboarding.com shameless plug) with it and it was awesome. Easy polling system, with polling administrators (and any other type of administrators you can imagine or create), so certain people could make polls (or not make them) news stuff, RSS feeds, all kinds of plugins. I am in no way affiliated with geeklog, but I definitely support their product. The only downfall it had when I used it was a lack of a members search or members directory, so it was hard to find someone and leave a message from them, get their AIM/YIM/MSN IDs or contact them.. Hopefully they've fixed that, because I've gotten approval from some mtns and would like to take the snowboarding site live again, and a members search/directory would be the icing on the cake.
-matt
" You are aware that you can get any USB 2 button mouse, assign the 2nd button to Ctrl-Click to pull up the "Contextual Menus" right."
Yes. This is not very useful on a laptop though, when the idea is to have a machine that doesn't need any external peripherals for at least two hours at a time...
How about the fact that you just hold down the mouse button for a second and the contextual menus pop up? Then again, there's always the ctrl key.. really no big deal. I actually love the single mouse button on the laptops, and have grown to hate laptops with 2 buttons. It just feels a lot better having that one big button there, you never hit the wrong button, you can hit it with your left hand or your right, whichever's more convenient... now that I think about it, have you ever actually tried using one of these laptops?
-matt
Argh, I know i've got no class for replying to myself, but I had a thought, and figured this is the place to ask it if anyplace. I'm sure it won't be long before someone's putting a 15 or 17"ers keyboard on their 12" powerbook.. Is there really anything behind it? They're the same size, I'm thinking you could probably swap k/bs out, but I guess you wouldn't have the light sensor to accompany it.. Does this seem somewhat plausable? My guess is that there's probably more to it than just replacing a keyboard, otherwise they'd offer it. In any case, I know there's someone on slashdot who owns a 15 or 17 that knows how the backlight k/b works who would probably be able to tell us whether or not they think it would work.
-matt
Don't forget the backlit keyboard, which auto-detects when the lights dim enough to require it.
:~( I think that would be awesome, and I really want it.. However, I want the 12", the low end (i'm used to a lombard, so any system is a step up, and I dig the 12" for the portability and weight) and dammit, I WANT A F'ING BACKLIT KEYBOARD. But then again, I chalk it up as a "wow, that's cool, but not totally necessary." sort of thing, so I'm sure i'll get by :)
Guh, don't even get me started, it's not on the model *I* want
-matt
Why not just do something like this in httpd.conf and forget about them?
/ad.php http://127.0.0.1/
Redirect permanent
Or create a page saying that the reason they were directed to that site was because they were infected with spyware. Along with a link to adaware (or spybot's) download page so that they CAN stop using adware/spyware. Most people who are hitting that page probably don't even know why. They're probably the people who call us and say someone's taken over their computer and changed their browser settings and want us to fix it over the phone.
-matt
You know what's pretty cool, A couple stations around here actually input their songs and their EXACT time played in real time on their website, I liked it. There were a couple times I was in the car, heard the song, checked the clock and got the name, very exact, really nice and totally helpful.
-matt
WUSB is obviously a solution in search of a problem.
..disagree with ya' there...
:)
Yeah, i'm gunna have to go ahead n'
Sure, you don't want to trade in your USB cable for a power cable, but what about things where you could use the range of bluetooth, and the speed of USB, You don't think it would be good for things like digital cameras? where you use AA anyway. How about a printer, which has a separate power cable as it is, now the printer only has 1 cable instead of 2. Scanners? Same deal, and that'd be a nice application. I wouldn't mind a little WUSB Flash drive.. Sure, it would work over BT, but the speed would blow... Wireless K/b and Mice.. well, I don't like them, but bluetooth is good for that. We've got enough f'ing wires now as it is. I think there's a lot of useful reasons to have WUSB, yes, bluetooth is still useful, still good for its applications, but I think WUSB would be great for stuff that already uses regular alkaline batteries or already have a power cable where it needs more speed than BT. It's a perfect solution, for an annoying problem. I want as few wires as humanly possible.. I'll be happy when all i've got is power cables, hehe. Personally, I can't wait for wireless PC speakers
-matt
Then it must be coming out real soon. I just upgraded to the 15 inch model with the SuperDrive.
Oh well any day now then I'm sure! I hope that when they revise the powerbook line the 12"ers get backlit keyboards too.
I have a DVD player in my Ranger that can handle data DVDs with MP3s. Approx. 450 songs. This means just as much audio as a Mini iPod. My entire music library sits on 6 discs.
Offtopic I know, but you don't have an email address listed, i've got that same DVD player in my silverado, and you're right, the thing is GREAT for toting around a lot of music, my whole setup for the screen, the DVD player, and a custom dash was less than the price of an ipod mini.. (ps: if you check out the pictures, they're a bit outdated, i've since ditched the blaupunkt, which was also a great way to tote a lot of music, for the pyle that you've got, and covered up the hole where the bp was, and moved the DVD to where it cannot be seen, much nicer. also the work was done by ACC in Garden Grove, CA.)
-matt
What are they up to? Where is my dual G5 PowerBook anyway?
It's scheduled to be released immediately after your purchase of a G4 powerbook.
-matt
Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if everything else but the iBook gets an update within two weeks. (This also signals to me that the iMac will either receive a noticeable speed bump, or go G5.)
Don't tease me like that, i've had my eye on a 12" powerbook for the past few months. I'm sure there will be no revision in the next couple weeks, because I'm not going to buy one until another month or so, THAT is when they'll release the new line, 2 weeks to a month after I finally crack down and buy my powerbook.
-matt
Unix environment (home turf/holy grail for hackers) with a usually unsophisticated (wrt security) users who have no admin to watch over them.
I hadn't even thought of this until I read your statement, but there may be a bright side... In OS X you don't run as an administrator, so you can only jack up your own stuff... Yeah, it still sucks that there's a trojan out there for the mighty X, but at least it's less harmful than the thousands out there for Windows.
-matt
We don't give Microsoft a free pass, and it's time we stopped giving Google the benefit of the doubt. This whole GMail thing REEKS of privacy abuse potential.
I don't think that's neccessarily the case.. I read the gmail site and yeah, they're going to use the information in your emails to serve ads, but they say that no human will ever read the message. It will be scanned for ad relevance. Now I'm going to give them the benfefit of the doubt because Google has never proven themselves unworthy of it. They give the community what the community wants. They come up with new and original ideas, and use them in an efficient manner..
Microsoft, on the other hand, which you use for your comparison, has proven themselves to be a bit shady. I won't say totally untrustworthy, because there's a motive behind every move, DRM, bunding of programs, integration of IE, whatever, they may honestly think they're doing something to make the user experience easy, I'm not standing up for them, nor am I damning them. I do however want to point out that they've done some shady things in the past, that's why they're being sued by everybody, anti-trust laws, anti-competitive practices, whatever. I've never seen google in court for unfair business practices, and they seem to genuinely have the user's experience in mind, and they go about providing it in a nice simple manner.
-matt
But in reality, someone making $500,000 a year already spends as much as he is likely to spend on goods and services. Adding $50,000 to his income doesn't mean another $50,000 in circulation.
:)
But hiring someone who does not have a job and paying him $50,000 means that most of that money will be circulated back through the economy.
I'm not unemployed, I am paid a lot less than I'd like to be, if you would like to give me an extra $50k, I -promise- to spend it all and put it right back into circulation
-matt
Of course, why someone with an assult rifle would be walking around listening to an IPod is beyond me.
:P
Maybe he used the assult rifle to GAIN the iPod? Ehh, that may be a bit overboard eh?
-matt
D'oh, no more iPod music sharing with strangers you pass by on the street anymore I guess huh?
:( )
(I can't find the story on it right now
-matt
Nothing was hidden. They showed you everything and discussed it in a open mature manner. And this was all at about 4 PM.
Shit you'll never see that here. Not even at 2am WITH warnings. However it appears that they're allowed to swear on CNN, and they'll show GRAPHIC violence, kidnapping, abuse, etc with no warning at any time of day. I agree, it's retarded.
-matt
Not that I'm one of them. I'm boycotting MS best I can. Finally got Mozilla Firefox installed on my Winboxen. Slowly I purge my home of All Things Microsoft.
;)
I used to feel this way as well, but I've got to admit, that XBox is one badass game machine, I was all about the ps2 for the longest time and couldn't justify an XBox, eventually I got one after playing multiplayer halo with my neighbors, now we've got all of our systems networked and bigger games, and I'm finding some outstanding games for that thing.. Halo (for multiplayer, not impressed by single), Mafia, The Suffering, Fuzion Frenzy (hehe), Amped, and many more, there's not as many games as the PS2, but the ones that are out there are pretty good.
Anyhow, what your comment and my rant made me realize, well, not realize, but put into words, is that Microsoft makes some great hardware. The XBox is great, their keyboards are good, their mice are good, I'm wondering, if they didn't have to deal with so much stuff being piled on so much stuff and so many third party drivers and processors n' stuff.. If MS made their own hardware, would their OS be more stable, and would they be a 'better company'? Basically, if MS were doing the same thing as Apple, would everyone still boycot them? Would they be carrying on all of these lawsuits? Or would they be more of a socially acceptable and fair business?
Disclaimer: This is -not- an anti-ms or pro-ms rant, it's just a rant, don't read more into it than is stated
-matt
One question - I haven't played it, so I don't know - but - what do you like about Ninja Gaiden so much?
Off Topic, I know, but I had to butt in here... I got Gaiden when it came out and couldn't stand the way the camera follows you.. if you go around a corner you lose sight of your char until you move forward a little, more than a little bit annoying, I took it back and traded it in for The Suffering, which my g/f and neighbors will sit and watch for quite a while without getting bored.
-matt
but does this hurt MicroSoft's ability (and willingness) to do the same behaviour again and again?
I think it will. Maybe not THIS time, but say they get slapped by 4 countries this way, all of a sudden it's 2B USD, it may not be much, it won't be enough to bring them to their knees, but it gets the message across that they're not going to get away for free. It may not be a big fine, to them, but it's a fair enough fine that if they get busted a few more times it'll start to make a dent, and they'll be forced to change their ways before someone else comes knockin'.
-matt
Seems to me Microsoft might as well start playing hardball here - Drop the price of an Xbox to $0, offer tracks on the new music service for $0.50, charge $10 or give away copies of Enterprise Architect, take a few high profile clients and offer huge discounts for OS and Office site licenses.
I'm onto you, you just want a free X Box!
-matt
PS: So do I, I hope they take your idea into consideration!