Maybe he's referring to something like say ummm the pepsi logo, or Apple logo, or the Nike swoosh.
You can do well still with a simple logo that doesn't necessarily have to be a shiny orb.
Yes- Apple logo is all shiney and bumpy. But it evolved and can be made timeless.
I checked this* I sorted by median household income and got your county as 11 and Oneida as 22. I still say it was a hole.. but you sir, you get a beer on me.
*I don't care enough to check if the first google result I found (that looked nice appropriate) are valid, or the right source:)
See above. Realistically, the original owner was not going to call anyway. How often do you call for support once you're all set up and configured? At the very least- as you call into support, in theory you are building off the support and knowledge they provided in previous calls. Then they have to start over every time with a new owner ("I thought we already gave this owner information on upgrading/installing the patch?").
You are correct- the orginal owner should be able to call as much as the service support allows. But realistically, I would imagine some metrics/data exists that reveal patterns as to how customers get support. And I'm certain they would hire support staff based on that information, not on the number of licenses out there. Wrong? Maybe- but probably cheaper in the overall price of the product.
I agree with this (and the other statement) arguement- and it's correct. But realistically, you will get more calls. If the orginal caller has a problem getting it to install, makes a call, then has a problem with a patch or something- makes another call- then never calls again. Then multiply that times two for the next caller (or if the company tells them to get lost- at least that call on).
I realize they need to support that software license... and that the orginal owner could have called in every day if he wanted to.. but the reality is that they don't. They call a few times to get up and running and for upgrades/patches/troubleshooting and such- then it's off the air. I would imagine the customer support folks are doing some evaluation/metrics on this and hire/staff appropriately based on actual calls/support needed, not the amount of licenses out there. They should you say? Well then be prepared to pay for it on the orginal purchase.
How about his arguement of having extra support calls come in. Granted- they probably tell them to effectively shove it, but they probably do have to answer a few extra calls which may cut into productivity. I would guess this is a small "nit-pick" but I guess he has a (small) point
I normally defend Opera on slashdot since there are few voices of support (hopefully there will be more now!); but I have to agree with you on your points. I've brought this up in the opera forums before. That UI is not very friendly- also to edit the mouse gestures, you have type "GestureUp, GestureDown" instead of "Up,Down" or even "U,D" Opera does not error check either- I think it just ignores it if you typo'd it.
Not that I'm against FF or totally for Opera use what you like and what works for you.
I still want to make sweet love to Opera.
Imagine always knowing Abe Vigota's current status, Imagine having fifteen different choices of doing the same thing but not knowing they exist because the downloads are all labeled in confusing ways: "FLST 0.8.3" "Close Tab on Double Click" "Blank Last" "Hash Coloured Tabs" Imagine have the UI/Usability for a product determined by everyone in the world with little consistency.
Fair enough. I prefer to use whatever is under my hands at the moment. I don't like moving back and forth between the mouse and keyboard (which is why I'm waiting for http://www.fingerworks.com/ to marry their technology with useful tactile feedback). As a result, if I'm browsing I use the mouse for as much as I can. It really does save time for me.
I agree that most mouse gesture packages are a little slow/sloppy- if you haven't tried Opera, I would recommend it. They are native, responsive, and fairly forgiving.
-err that's "hands" on the keyboard. I would like to think your keys are already there.
-oh.. and that's supposed to be "throw" not "through"
And regarding your faster vs. easier question. It can be easier but not faster simply because you are not concentrating on it. ie- you're focus is somewhere else- so you don't notice the speed because you're not paying attention to it or waiting for it.
if you already have your keys on the keyboard- fine- hit f11. If you have your hands on the mouse- use a mouse movement. Try reading this text and while you're reading it, through your mouse to the corner and click... pretend it's an "alt-tab" or something like that. It's not hard to image a use for that. If anyone uses mouse gestures for browsing, it's really the same idea.. back, forward, close, refresh all while not taking attention away from what you are thinking about.
I agree- hitting the corners would happen pretty often without you wanting to activate those "hot spots" but I see this really as being no different than mouse gestures. I envision a UI that lets you hold a move to the corner and right or middle click or something. These could be quite useful and easy to perform a handful of system operations. Hard to learn? Maybe- the OS could handle it like Opera does. When activated the first time- it would annoyingly pop up telling what it is, then you click something saying yeah, that's cool, let's leave that turned on...or not and you're all set.
I also agree with the stealing focus comments... bad.
I know- but to your real point:
FF will press on I'm sure- but I'm not so sure about my favorite extensions- since there are so many doing essentially the same thing (tabbed browsing for example) the odds are you'll get used to one only to have something else get progagated on, grow and recieve updates. You may be willing to work on an extension- but not everyone (me) is. That's why I like Opera.
True- and I wouldn't be concerned about FF- but we'll all agree that FF is not really exciting without extensions- and those extensions are where I get frustrated with the lack of support and compatability. What if someone doesn't want to pick up my favorite extension? Then I have to do it? --I don't want to.
If you try Opera- you'll have very little work getting it to the way you like it- then you can save the menus and toolbar, search engines, and much more- and just move them into another direcotry if you upgrade
You're jealous. Firefox is a decent product- but the problems with 3rd party extenions (21 different, poorly described tabbed browsing extensions) that break every time I install a newer version are too much for me. This is described in-depth all over this thread. I don't know which is the best version of tabbed browsing extension to use and what the feature set is, and I don't want to take the time to learn
Mouse gestures are responsive and tightly integrated as are all the other features- the mail client is pretty analagous to the gmail interface, but better.
Where is the bloat? As is also stated everywhere- it's much smaller download than the bare bones-barrio stripped out version of FF, and it does have all these features.
Paid Browser? Why not- I don't see websites (fark.com) hosting "gimp" contests? You'll (geek community) pay for photoshop but gimp isn't all that prevelant? Why not? What is so evil about buying software? You can get a free version- I feel in love with the advert version of 6.X and used/advocated through version 7.5X when I finally paid for it (happily)- why because I want to foster the innovation of this company. Sure you can download the plugin for FF- but that's likely a copied feature from Opera (note- there are some killer extension I like in FF that WISH Opera would impliment- but only two really- so the innovation goes both ways)
Finally- Basing your opinion on version 5 is ignorant. Yes, there can be (is) quite a difference.
You're jealous. Firefox is a decent product- but the problems with 3rd party extenions (21 different, poorly described tabbed browsing extensions) that break every time I install a newer version. This is described in-depth all over this thread.
Mouse gestures are responsive and tightly integrated as are all the other features- the mail client is pretty analagous to the gmail interface, but better.
Where is the bloat? As is also stated everywhere- it's much smaller download than the bare bones-barrio stripped out version of FF, and it does have all these features.
Paid Browser? Why not- I don't see websites (fark.com) hosting "gimp" contests? You'll (geek community) pay for photoshop but gimp isn't all that prevelant? Why not? What is so evil about buying software? You can get a free version- I feel in love with the advert version of 6.X and used/advocated through version 7.5X when I finally paid for it (happily)- why because I want to foster the innovation of this company. Sure you can download the plugin for FF- but that's likely a copied feature from Opera (note- there are some killer extension I like in FF that WISH Opera would impliment- but only two really- so the innovation goes both ways)
Finally- Basing your opinion on version 5 is ignorant. Yes, there can be (is) quite a difference.
Slashdot Mirror
Maybe he's referring to something like say ummm the pepsi logo, or Apple logo, or the Nike swoosh. You can do well still with a simple logo that doesn't necessarily have to be a shiny orb. Yes- Apple logo is all shiney and bumpy. But it evolved and can be made timeless.
*I don't care enough to check if the first google result I found (that looked nice appropriate) are valid, or the right source :)
That's not Oneida county is it? I was there. Hole.
The cost of living in CA requires you to have to make on average: 73,961 dollars.
See above. Realistically, the original owner was not going to call anyway. How often do you call for support once you're all set up and configured? At the very least- as you call into support, in theory you are building off the support and knowledge they provided in previous calls. Then they have to start over every time with a new owner ("I thought we already gave this owner information on upgrading/installing the patch?"). You are correct- the orginal owner should be able to call as much as the service support allows. But realistically, I would imagine some metrics/data exists that reveal patterns as to how customers get support. And I'm certain they would hire support staff based on that information, not on the number of licenses out there. Wrong? Maybe- but probably cheaper in the overall price of the product.
I agree with this (and the other statement) arguement- and it's correct. But realistically, you will get more calls. If the orginal caller has a problem getting it to install, makes a call, then has a problem with a patch or something- makes another call- then never calls again. Then multiply that times two for the next caller (or if the company tells them to get lost- at least that call on). I realize they need to support that software license... and that the orginal owner could have called in every day if he wanted to.. but the reality is that they don't. They call a few times to get up and running and for upgrades/patches/troubleshooting and such- then it's off the air. I would imagine the customer support folks are doing some evaluation/metrics on this and hire/staff appropriately based on actual calls/support needed, not the amount of licenses out there. They should you say? Well then be prepared to pay for it on the orginal purchase.
How about his arguement of having extra support calls come in. Granted- they probably tell them to effectively shove it, but they probably do have to answer a few extra calls which may cut into productivity. I would guess this is a small "nit-pick" but I guess he has a (small) point
Oh come on people.... that's a good comment. mod this guy up. I'm buying you a pizza.
I normally defend Opera on slashdot since there are few voices of support (hopefully there will be more now!); but I have to agree with you on your points. I've brought this up in the opera forums before. That UI is not very friendly- also to edit the mouse gestures, you have type "GestureUp, GestureDown" instead of "Up,Down" or even "U,D" Opera does not error check either- I think it just ignores it if you typo'd it. Not that I'm against FF or totally for Opera use what you like and what works for you. I still want to make sweet love to Opera.
that should be fixed in the new merlin (codename) release:
There are some slight changes
Imagine always knowing Abe Vigota's current status, Imagine having fifteen different choices of doing the same thing but not knowing they exist because the downloads are all labeled in confusing ways: "FLST 0.8.3" "Close Tab on Double Click" "Blank Last" "Hash Coloured Tabs" Imagine have the UI/Usability for a product determined by everyone in the world with little consistency.
Fair enough. I prefer to use whatever is under my hands at the moment. I don't like moving back and forth between the mouse and keyboard (which is why I'm waiting for http://www.fingerworks.com/ to marry their technology with useful tactile feedback). As a result, if I'm browsing I use the mouse for as much as I can. It really does save time for me.
I agree that most mouse gesture packages are a little slow/sloppy- if you haven't tried Opera, I would recommend it. They are native, responsive, and fairly forgiving.
-err that's "hands" on the keyboard. I would like to think your keys are already there. -oh.. and that's supposed to be "throw" not "through" And regarding your faster vs. easier question. It can be easier but not faster simply because you are not concentrating on it. ie- you're focus is somewhere else- so you don't notice the speed because you're not paying attention to it or waiting for it.
if you already have your keys on the keyboard- fine- hit f11. If you have your hands on the mouse- use a mouse movement. Try reading this text and while you're reading it, through your mouse to the corner and click... pretend it's an "alt-tab" or something like that. It's not hard to image a use for that. If anyone uses mouse gestures for browsing, it's really the same idea.. back, forward, close, refresh all while not taking attention away from what you are thinking about.
I agree- hitting the corners would happen pretty often without you wanting to activate those "hot spots" but I see this really as being no different than mouse gestures. I envision a UI that lets you hold a move to the corner and right or middle click or something. These could be quite useful and easy to perform a handful of system operations. Hard to learn? Maybe- the OS could handle it like Opera does. When activated the first time- it would annoyingly pop up telling what it is, then you click something saying yeah, that's cool, let's leave that turned on...or not and you're all set.
I also agree with the stealing focus comments... bad.
I'm interested in this topic. I'd be interested in the article/link
I can't wait for them to do it :)
Seems you need a swimmer now to cross some large body of water
Wear it
I know- but to your real point: FF will press on I'm sure- but I'm not so sure about my favorite extensions- since there are so many doing essentially the same thing (tabbed browsing for example) the odds are you'll get used to one only to have something else get progagated on, grow and recieve updates. You may be willing to work on an extension- but not everyone (me) is. That's why I like Opera.
True- and I wouldn't be concerned about FF- but we'll all agree that FF is not really exciting without extensions- and those extensions are where I get frustrated with the lack of support and compatability. What if someone doesn't want to pick up my favorite extension? Then I have to do it? --I don't want to.
If you try Opera- you'll have very little work getting it to the way you like it- then you can save the menus and toolbar, search engines, and much more- and just move them into another direcotry if you upgrade
You're jealous. Firefox is a decent product- but the problems with 3rd party extenions (21 different, poorly described tabbed browsing extensions) that break every time I install a newer version are too much for me. This is described in-depth all over this thread. I don't know which is the best version of tabbed browsing extension to use and what the feature set is, and I don't want to take the time to learn
Mouse gestures are responsive and tightly integrated as are all the other features- the mail client is pretty analagous to the gmail interface, but better.
Where is the bloat? As is also stated everywhere- it's much smaller download than the bare bones-barrio stripped out version of FF, and it does have all these features.
Paid Browser? Why not- I don't see websites (fark.com) hosting "gimp" contests? You'll (geek community) pay for photoshop but gimp isn't all that prevelant? Why not? What is so evil about buying software? You can get a free version- I feel in love with the advert version of 6.X and used/advocated through version 7.5X when I finally paid for it (happily)- why because I want to foster the innovation of this company. Sure you can download the plugin for FF- but that's likely a copied feature from Opera (note- there are some killer extension I like in FF that WISH Opera would impliment- but only two really- so the innovation goes both ways)
Finally- Basing your opinion on version 5 is ignorant. Yes, there can be (is) quite a difference.
You're jealous. Firefox is a decent product- but the problems with 3rd party extenions (21 different, poorly described tabbed browsing extensions) that break every time I install a newer version. This is described in-depth all over this thread. Mouse gestures are responsive and tightly integrated as are all the other features- the mail client is pretty analagous to the gmail interface, but better. Where is the bloat? As is also stated everywhere- it's much smaller download than the bare bones-barrio stripped out version of FF, and it does have all these features. Paid Browser? Why not- I don't see websites (fark.com) hosting "gimp" contests? You'll (geek community) pay for photoshop but gimp isn't all that prevelant? Why not? What is so evil about buying software? You can get a free version- I feel in love with the advert version of 6.X and used/advocated through version 7.5X when I finally paid for it (happily)- why because I want to foster the innovation of this company. Sure you can download the plugin for FF- but that's likely a copied feature from Opera (note- there are some killer extension I like in FF that WISH Opera would impliment- but only two really- so the innovation goes both ways) Finally- Basing your opinion on version 5 is ignorant. Yes, there can be (is) quite a difference.