I agree.
But I've always had one concern- why was the gamecube such a dismal failure? And by dismal failure, I mean- why can't I go into the store and have a decent selection of games? and by decent selection of games, I mean... a really good driving game on par with Gran Turismo 4.
What where talking about again? Oh yeah, you're right. I'm getting one too.
Exactly! Good grief. that was the number one argument (next to Open Source) against Opera... "it's bloatware!" several years ago. Now, FF users scream "it doesn't have extensions!"...but the bloat comments are gone.
What we need is someone to branch off the mozilla project into a lean, lightweight, efficient browser.
"Today simplicity, tomorrow convenience. Tomorrow convenience, the next day simplicity..." -Donald Norman
I'm the guy that got (a|the) dugg version of this article-
Here's what I wrote in the (crappy) digg comment section:
Let it be known that as the article link submitter, I prefer slashdot over dig. digg is information overload.
I submitted the same article to slashdot with a "Does slashdot matter?" type of discussion post asking questions of the slashdot community. It got rejected.
My headline is inflamitory and troll like. I hastily submitted it since I thought I would take advantage of the best feature of digg- the quick responsiveness of the community. Bring to the people quick.
Had I been less urgent in my submittal- I would have phrased it:
"Does slashdot matter? Are sites like digg more relevant now?"
But in fairness to me- I think I summarize the point of the article. The No.1 on the Main article on who *does* matter (my submission is a companion to it) is "You!" meaning- "social" sites like digg and the ilk are clearly the "winners" -hence the "digg wins" part.
But again- just because I submitted the story doesn't mean it's my choice. I just thought it was newsworthy and relevant.
IMO- slashdot is better, digg is quicker, and business2.0 is wack.
I thought the cost was absolutely nominal. I paid a student fee for mine (20 bucks) and the address bar searches, caching of web pages, pop-up blocker and mouse gestures were worth every penny of that twenty dollars.
I see your point though. value added over IE is subjective.
And I threw the wrong link your way before (well- not as good as this one)
http://opera.com/download/
No. But what else are you going to do? Find the best teachers and genetically clone them?
That's a glass half empty statement in my opinion that can apply to virtually any profession. It doesn't mean China should not train teachers though. I think your parent had it right.
Even though Opera is now free (as I'm sure you know)- why would not pay for a browser? Is it because you can get one for free? Or because you believe all software should be free?
Why don't people believe in supporting (finacially) innovation anymore? Surely I'm not the only one in the slashdot community that would rather help with my wallet since I'm not about to begin writing my own browser code.
You "cause it's not open source" guys too- as soon as you change the code to fit your own needs, when does it cease to become "FireFox" and start to become "Your POS?" The truth is, unless you're on the mozilla team, your situation is no different than mine is as an Opera user. You submit feature request and talk to the developers, submit bugs etc etc. You don't say "Ah- this isn't what I want- I'm going to re-code this.." because then you've branched and your stagnant right?
Why is it so wrong to support some company that does great work on a piece of software that I use for the majority of my home and office PC use?
Good grief- it used to be 40 dollars. I'd pay that much for dinner- but not for the single most important software application I use for years on end? Not for a company that continues to pioneer features?
Why should I expect computers to be any different?..because you're more apt to run across a computer when you are, let's say- getting money (ATM), getting gas, balancing checkbooks, writing, etc.. than you are to... oh I don't know, let's say, go to court or drive an 18 wheeler.
"I don't understand why someone would think that the control bar makes sense where it is, it breaks the tab indicator from the page that it indicates."
I never undestood this- I see what you're saying, but the address bar also goes with the page that it indicates as well right? So why put the tab in between them? Your philosophy from top down goes: page that it indicates, all pages (global), then page that it indicates (the actual page) This makes no sense to me at all.
I think Opera got it right the way it is, but you shouldn't have any problem changing it to the way you'd like.
I also have a motorola- the default menu configuration* when I flipped open my phone had the camera button as the left soft key.. but if you dig into menus enough to get a good enough "history" and you keep hitting the "back" softkey that replaces the back soft key, you eventually turn the camera on trying to get to the main menu.
Also- there are too many delays. Look, I'm not running 10 different apps at a time.. I HATE it when I try to "abort" a call I make by mistake only to find it take 3 or 4 seconds to actually quit "no! wrong girlfriend! abort abort abort... " and you just press the button over and over again to make SURE the phone knows that you don't want to call that crazy girl.
*I've of course changed the layout, but it's a dumb default
What's worse, is that as a long time Opera user, I immediately knew who it was when I read the article. I was WAY ahead of the power curve on this one:)
and some time down in Biloxi means you might be a Comm troop. I was a 33S3 just got out after my four in July. I would have gone for the long haul- I loved the job, but my wife got a better gig in Minnesota.
Of course, now we're getting divorced.
To say Opera has dismissed it as unnecessary is a bit of an understatement. Check the version 9 Tech Preview to see the Acid2 progress which is almost complete.
I agree that Opera does appear to make it a top priority, but they are actively working it and post updates often. See this blog from a developer to get an update.
Also, Safari has acid2 in internal builds only still IIRC, right?
Slashdot Mirror
Opera was invited to MS recently as well.... http://my.opera.com/dstorey/blog/show.dml/419834
Parent post is not true. Simply not true.
I agree. But I've always had one concern- why was the gamecube such a dismal failure? And by dismal failure, I mean- why can't I go into the store and have a decent selection of games? and by decent selection of games, I mean... a really good driving game on par with Gran Turismo 4. What where talking about again? Oh yeah, you're right. I'm getting one too.
I'm buying you a pizza. one libertarian to (evidently) another.
Exactly! Good grief. that was the number one argument (next to Open Source) against Opera... "it's bloatware!" several years ago. Now, FF users scream "it doesn't have extensions!" ...but the bloat comments are gone.
What we need is someone to branch off the mozilla project into a lean, lightweight, efficient browser. "Today simplicity, tomorrow convenience. Tomorrow convenience, the next day simplicity..." -Donald Norman
I'm the guy that got (a|the) dugg version of this article- Here's what I wrote in the (crappy) digg comment section: Let it be known that as the article link submitter, I prefer slashdot over dig. digg is information overload. I submitted the same article to slashdot with a "Does slashdot matter?" type of discussion post asking questions of the slashdot community. It got rejected. My headline is inflamitory and troll like. I hastily submitted it since I thought I would take advantage of the best feature of digg- the quick responsiveness of the community. Bring to the people quick. Had I been less urgent in my submittal- I would have phrased it: "Does slashdot matter? Are sites like digg more relevant now?" But in fairness to me- I think I summarize the point of the article. The No.1 on the Main article on who *does* matter (my submission is a companion to it) is "You!" meaning- "social" sites like digg and the ilk are clearly the "winners" -hence the "digg wins" part. But again- just because I submitted the story doesn't mean it's my choice. I just thought it was newsworthy and relevant. IMO- slashdot is better, digg is quicker, and business2.0 is wack.
I thought the cost was absolutely nominal. I paid a student fee for mine (20 bucks) and the address bar searches, caching of web pages, pop-up blocker and mouse gestures were worth every penny of that twenty dollars. I see your point though. value added over IE is subjective. And I threw the wrong link your way before (well- not as good as this one) http://opera.com/download/
Well, in *my* post I never asked at all why you wouldn't use Opera. I asked why you wouldn't pay for a browser.\
Opera is not cross platform? That has to be the sillest thing I've ever heard.
I'd like to disagree with your first comment too. But I'm not a web designer and only go off what what I've heard- so I'll yield to you on that.
No. But what else are you going to do? Find the best teachers and genetically clone them? That's a glass half empty statement in my opinion that can apply to virtually any profession. It doesn't mean China should not train teachers though. I think your parent had it right.
I don't know. Oh hey- look at this! http://moztorrent.mozdev.org/
Even though Opera is now free (as I'm sure you know)- why would not pay for a browser? Is it because you can get one for free? Or because you believe all software should be free?
Why don't people believe in supporting (finacially) innovation anymore? Surely I'm not the only one in the slashdot community that would rather help with my wallet since I'm not about to begin writing my own browser code.
You "cause it's not open source" guys too- as soon as you change the code to fit your own needs, when does it cease to become "FireFox" and start to become "Your POS?" The truth is, unless you're on the mozilla team, your situation is no different than mine is as an Opera user. You submit feature request and talk to the developers, submit bugs etc etc. You don't say "Ah- this isn't what I want- I'm going to re-code this.." because then you've branched and your stagnant right?
Why is it so wrong to support some company that does great work on a piece of software that I use for the majority of my home and office PC use?
Good grief- it used to be 40 dollars. I'd pay that much for dinner- but not for the single most important software application I use for years on end? Not for a company that continues to pioneer features?
Enjoy your steak.
Why should I expect computers to be any different? ..because you're more apt to run across a computer when you are, let's say- getting money (ATM), getting gas, balancing checkbooks, writing, etc.. than you are to... oh I don't know, let's say, go to court or drive an 18 wheeler.
"I don't understand why someone would think that the control bar makes sense where it is, it breaks the tab indicator from the page that it indicates." I never undestood this- I see what you're saying, but the address bar also goes with the page that it indicates as well right? So why put the tab in between them? Your philosophy from top down goes: page that it indicates, all pages (global), then page that it indicates (the actual page) This makes no sense to me at all. I think Opera got it right the way it is, but you shouldn't have any problem changing it to the way you'd like.
FWIW- I've gotten slashdot crap for years for using that same argument about why I choose Opera as my web browser (back when it was pay)
I've said the same thing:
but I expect tighter intgration, even in outlook
Amen brutha... amen.
Opera 9 isn't even *in* beta yet. TP's and weekly builds is all I've seen.
I guess I'm alone in when I think of Zaino show car polish.
I also have a motorola- the default menu configuration* when I flipped open my phone had the camera button as the left soft key.. but if you dig into menus enough to get a good enough "history" and you keep hitting the "back" softkey that replaces the back soft key, you eventually turn the camera on trying to get to the main menu. Also- there are too many delays. Look, I'm not running 10 different apps at a time.. I HATE it when I try to "abort" a call I make by mistake only to find it take 3 or 4 seconds to actually quit "no! wrong girlfriend! abort abort abort... " and you just press the button over and over again to make SURE the phone knows that you don't want to call that crazy girl. *I've of course changed the layout, but it's a dumb default
What's worse, is that as a long time Opera user, I immediately knew who it was when I read the article. I was WAY ahead of the power curve on this one :)
and some time down in Biloxi means you might be a Comm troop. I was a 33S3 just got out after my four in July. I would have gone for the long haul- I loved the job, but my wife got a better gig in Minnesota. Of course, now we're getting divorced.
To say Opera has dismissed it as unnecessary is a bit of an understatement. Check the version 9 Tech Preview to see the Acid2 progress which is almost complete. I agree that Opera does appear to make it a top priority, but they are actively working it and post updates often. See this blog from a developer to get an update. Also, Safari has acid2 in internal builds only still IIRC, right?
Me too. I agree with you and owuld like to buy you a pizza (ok- I'm kidding about the pizza part)
This teapot?