Programming language is pretty much an irrelevant topic when talking about Open Source IMHO. I think it would be to good start off by looking at the motives and philosophy behind the open source movement back to its roots (even prior to the formation of organizations like FSF). This should include business models - including success stories and failures. Also examining the development methodologies (distribution, building, code QA, versioning, testing, etc) used by large and small scale open source projects. Now that your students understand the 'why' and the 'how' of open source, you could have them pick an open source project and contribute something to it.
I'm not sure I'd call it a "glacial pace". There are plenty of enhancements being made to Java (the platform and language) beyond convenience enhancments. See JCP.
We at Promethean Personal Software promise to never share your email address with another organization, but we reserve the right to send you one piece of email ("spam") about our products per week. You can opt out of the service at any time.
Sounds like I have to "pay" via annoying emails about products... Also, I'm not sure what the advantage is here over a normal bug tracking system. Automatic recording of the Exception message? Blah...
IMHO you're skipping out on one the most important skills... understanding Math... err better yet- How to solve not so obvious problems. Math is ubiquitous. Its used in Business, Chemistry, Biology, Computer Science,etc...
I, like you as a college freshmen, at one time thought Math was totally useless to what I wanted to do after college - build large scale software systems. Then I took classes like Discrete Math, Numerical Methods and Calculus III. I was blown away by problem solving skills I gained by taking those classes on top of the software engineering and programming classes I took.
Anybody remember when network computers were supposed to be the next big thing?
Yes, I do... and they are big in a corporate environment. I use a dumb terminal today at work (read: SunRay). Now, would I want the same thing in my home? HELL NO!
At work, its not my data/property. At home its mine. And I want it to stay that way.
I had read the SecurityFocus article (I never read the AP ones... cause they are always are sparse on details). I had thought it was the same linked article.
If you took the time to RTFA you would have seen that the only reason they didn't get away with any credit card information was because they got caught BEFORE they could actually download the information. Thier "bugged" version of the program had already gotten a hold of six credit card numbers.
Also, if you RTFA, you would have noticed that the one of guys had a prior conviction of computer fraud and was still on probabtion.
Bottom Line: These guys were looking to steal. You reap what you sow...
Right on. Execution is everything (in any business). Fred Brooks tried informing the software community of this ~20 years ago.
People are everything on a software project. You can't put 1000 monkeys on 1000 type writters (pay them bananas) and expect the next great novel (or great piece of software). You can try but, it just ain't gonna happen. The reason IMHO is drive. Your typical "code-monkey" (or whatever derogatory slang term is used now a days) is only there for the "bananas". An engineer on the other hand, has two drivers - pride and fame. Every person who calls themself an engineer always wants to look like the smartest guy in the room. Don't get me wrong... engineers want money as well... but they know that the path to real fortune starts with credibility and acknoledgment.
Some might say outsourcing is an exception to this... That you can come up with great software without the need of strong enigneers (and people who really have an attachment to thier work). To me, outsourcing is the equivalent of fast food -- Its great for a quick meal. Its cheap. Its solves your immediate problem (aka hunger). But it isn't going to be good for you in the long run. Outsourcing companies are about one thing -- Cashing in on the slumming american economy that is still tech hungry.
We are led to belive that in fact it only costs around 15k credits for a basic ship, according to A New Hope. In the game it costs many, many times that. Certain items are too expensive for gamers, with constant upkeep required to ensure poeple keep playing (or your lose your stuff, oh no!), this in turn helps ensure monthly subscriptions just keep on rolling in. Until people get sick of it.
If memory serves me... with 15K credits you "could almost buy your own ship for that..." (But who's gonna fly it, Kid? You?):)
Like I said, before... it should be expensive own a ship. That's why there is a public transport. Does everyone who lives in NYC own a car? Think about why not...
Again... Like I said, I enjoy SWG (despite its flaws) so, my opinions are biased towards it. That being said, SWG is not for everyone. Its a MMORPG. I had thought the vision for games like these were- "The Sims meets Diablo". I can go out and kill stuff but, I still need to do other dialy tasks, not just adventure all the time. I'm surprised they didn't put in that your player has to eat every X hours. Also, these games are going to favor the people who are online and playing (even afk) the most. Don't like that sort of thing... don't play it. Is it far to expect someone playing for 3 weeks (game-time) to be at the same "level" as someone who has put in 7 months? (Now conversely, I don't think afk-play is fair either...) Games like these are also about emersion into a virtual world, in this case the StarWars Universe. Which, as you said, is a popular title (although IMHO is dying in its popularity). However, I disagree that its meant to cater to every StarWars fan (even if the LA and SOE marketing folks think so). Its meant to cater to folks who like StarWars and have a ton of time to devote to a MMORPG, just like you said. Look at the requirements just play the game... Its a target audience.
Please don't assert that other games have anything like the number of bugs that recent SOE titles (SWG, PlanetSide) have had.
Mine was a broad statement. Broadly speaking about commerical software to specific. The parent was whining about the stability of a game that is constantly being upgraded and modified. Majority of these modifications come via requests from the users of the game itelf through a community process, while often times poor, still makes the request. I don't think its reasonable to expect a software title to have modifications to it roll out monthly (sometimes daily), to not have bugs and not cost a fortune to maintain. The monthly fee (which borders on pricy as it is) probably really only goes to two places. Profit and maintence/upkeep of the server hardware (and possibly the StarWars licence). Now, contrary to all that, again as I said, I agree SOE has a track record of rolling out bad software. But so has just about every other software company, including Blizzard. I've experienced it personally. Yes, it sucks. Remember Diablo? I couldn't play it out of the box without patching. I guess I'm just used to the fact that commerical software is going to be shipped with bugs (sometimes major ones!). Its just part of a commerical software industry that is driven directly by market share and money. Only indirectly is it driven by "your personal satisfaction". To them... you still bought the product and they've provided you a fix. Yes, it was a hastle for you. They appoligize and ask you to "Please buy our next title." And people do!
I would like you to justify why you say that 'someone has to do it'? If it's tedious to do, eliminate it from the game, or at the very least minimise it - make many generic items of clothing items avalible from NPC's.
Ok, will do - SWG is supposed to be a 99% player driven game. Which means that every item should be made by a live player. Be it weapons,armor,hats,shoes,etc... If you don't want to be the guy tediously crafting the items, then find someone who does. By the way - that cra
Reading your post makes me think one thing: StarWars Galaxies is NOT for you!
1. Jedi, in the time frame that Galaxies is set in, are supposed to be sparse and in hiding. (I should know I hunt them for an SWG living). Its supposed to be hard to become a Jedi. If it as easy as TKM, then everyone would be one and the game would suck. It would be Jedi Knight 3 Online.
2. Galaxies is a multi-player game. If you don't want to interact with other people to play and/or fight, then you shouldn't have signed up to play with other people. PvP and guilds are what makes Galaxies what it is... an Empire Divided. Again, if it was as simple as "AFK grinding" your way to Master Pilot... Then everyone would be one. Then whats the point of get the title of Master?
3. Not everyone in the StarWars Universe should have a ship. It should cost big bucks to have and maintain them. It should be the real life equivilent of owning your own Jet.
And yes, to reverse engineer something, it should take a bunch of the same exact part. You are trying to reverse engineer it! You are going to make mistakes and mess it up. Also, to build a high quality YT-13000 it should take A TON (x2) amount of expensive resources. It keeps the resource game compeditive and draws people into it.
4. Every piece of software has bugs... Get used to it. Yes, SOE has pissed me off with thier random fixes to the launch pad that locked me out for the day. Oh well... Its still my choice to play and its my choice to just put up with it and move on. If it was really unplayable game because of the bugs, I'd quit (and so would everyone else).
Personally, I like StarWars Galaxies a lot. So, my opinions may be very biased here....Hey its Slashdot! I just can't understand how you can sound-off about problems with game that is supposed to be 99.9% player driven and where everyone is supposed to be unique. The game needs an economy. You have to pay for items and maintenance. Not everyone should be allowed to become Jedi (personally, I think they should have a server cap) Basically, SWG (much like real life) is geared more towards the 'holo-grinders' than to the occational player. You need to pair up with folks inorder to survive. Yes, it sucks having to waste AP on a Tailor or Merchant but, someone has to do it or we'd all run around bartering in our underwear.
Software maintenance is the single largest portion of the software life cycle. (IMHO)
So, why would I as chief programmer or system architect on a software project (that has a budget) allow pieces of the of software system to be built with languages that the 'common' programmer doesn't know? Sure, you could spend money training all the 'lesser' programmers in Python and/or PERL but, why waste the money? There are perfectly good languages that are defacto standard, provide loads of functionality, development tools, and are known by the 'so-called common' programmer. Every language has its pros and cons. So, if Java's weakness is uber-hackers don't like to use it than PERL's and Python's is maintainability.
(However, I think author might be poking the tiger with comments like: "Of all the great programmers I can think of, I know of only one who would voluntarily program in Java." And we all feel right into that trap... I know I did.:) )
Also, the single most important resource on a software project is people (again IMHO). Typical development scenario: New contract has been acquired. So, you as the "boss" hired 10 developers for the new project. One of which falls in the author's super-elite hacker class. The project's initial system delivery goes as smooth as glass cause the 'brains' of the operation (or the 1% as the author calls it) did majority of the work. Well, shortly after the initial delivery the hacker decides the project is now boring, the system was delivered and he or she is now looking for a new challenge. He or she now leaves the program and/or company. Now, there is a serious issue. Since the hacker did 90% of the work, now 90% of the core knowledge of how to maintain the system has left as well. (And I don't care who you are. Jesus himself couldn't write software that is perfect the first time. Bugs are always present and requirements can and do change. And Jesus also can microwave a burrito so hot he himself couldn't eat it!)
Given the author's profile of the hacker- Quiet, anti-social and loves his/her corner office with the door locked (which is a BS stereo-type)probably also didn't bother to pass any knowledge on to anyone else on the project. So, tell me again why this person was 'the most valuable thing' to us and the delivered system?
I personally love working with people are technically sharp but, also like working with other people and sharing info. I have caught myself being sort of elitist when I was the technical authority on something. But what does that gain you? Nothing in my experience. You want to be respected by your peers and co-workers? Share with them your knowledge not just lines of code (be it byte-code or interpreted scripts).
If you ask me more data should be destroyed, too much is spend backing up useless crap. Human memory is great because a lot is forgotten leaving only what is really important.
I also graduated with an undergrad in Math and Computer Science. The University I attended initially didn't offer a traditional Computer Science degree. They offered a Math with a concentration in Computer Science. Shortly after my Sophmore year they started offering it and I ended up getting both. Starting out though, I asked the typical questions... Why do I need Calculus II? What the hell does Math have with Computer Science!?
Well, I got my answers 4 years (and a few math courses) later...
In the end I too really ended up enjoying courses like Diff Eq, Discrete Math, Linear Algebra and Numerical Methods. While I wasn't top of the class in these subjects (I spent most of my hours in front of a *nix machine)... I still did learn a lot about different ways to attack a problem... Whoa! There is more than one way to solve the derivative and its "computer friendly"!? Some programming concepts orginated from graph theroy!?
After reading the first few pages of posts... most of which take place during the ".com era". Its readily apparent why these projects failed. (And also why Outsourcing will probably experience the the same effect...)
Everyone seems to be coding. No one seems to be engineering.
Everyone seems to be coming up with solutions before ever really defining the problem.
Gesh... Does anyone read books on software engineering anymore? Fred Brooks wrote a book almost 30 years ago describing how to avoid these sorts of problems.
Just my observations based on the posts I've read...
Re:Writing is bad enough, testing is worse
on
Exploiting Software
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· Score: 2, Informative
I would have to agree. I actually went and looked at his website.... I didn't see a single class that one wouldn't find in a Java text book or seen posted on a Java forum.
The teaser campaign for Episode III will begin in January of 2005, leading up to the May theatrical release. Finally... Episode III will hit DVD in November of 2005.
Wow... Only 2 years away! Thanks for the heads up.
Slashdot Mirror
Programming language is pretty much an irrelevant topic when talking about Open Source IMHO. I think it would be to good start off by looking at the motives and philosophy behind the open source movement back to its roots (even prior to the formation of organizations like FSF). This should include business models - including success stories and failures. Also examining the development methodologies (distribution, building, code QA, versioning, testing, etc) used by large and small scale open source projects. Now that your students understand the 'why' and the 'how' of open source, you could have them pick an open source project and contribute something to it.
I'm not sure I'd call it a "glacial pace". There are plenty of enhancements being made to Java (the platform and language) beyond convenience enhancments. See JCP.
We at Promethean Personal Software promise to never share your email address with another organization, but we reserve the right to send you one piece of email ("spam") about our products per week. You can opt out of the service at any time.
Sounds like I have to "pay" via annoying emails about products... Also, I'm not sure what the advantage is here over a normal bug tracking system. Automatic recording of the Exception message? Blah...
Isn't it obvious!? Its Compuglobalhypermeganet...
IMHO you're skipping out on one the most important skills... understanding Math... err better yet- How to solve not so obvious problems. Math is ubiquitous. Its used in Business, Chemistry, Biology, Computer Science,etc...
I, like you as a college freshmen, at one time thought Math was totally useless to what I wanted to do after college - build large scale software systems. Then I took classes like Discrete Math, Numerical Methods and Calculus III. I was blown away by problem solving skills I gained by taking those classes on top of the software engineering and programming classes I took.
If QB Vision is too hard for you... then just turn it off.
And you said it...
Maybe language choice is irrelevant, only good people (developers) matter?
Yes, I do... and they are big in a corporate environment. I use a dumb terminal today at work (read: SunRay). Now, would I want the same thing in my home? HELL NO!
At work, its not my data/property. At home its mine. And I want it to stay that way.
I had read the SecurityFocus article (I never read the AP ones... cause they are always are sparse on details). I had thought it was the same linked article.
If you took the time to RTFA you would have seen that the only reason they didn't get away with any credit card information was because they got caught BEFORE they could actually download the information. Thier "bugged" version of the program had already gotten a hold of six credit card numbers.
Also, if you RTFA, you would have noticed that the one of guys had a prior conviction of computer fraud and was still on probabtion.
Bottom Line: These guys were looking to steal. You reap what you sow...
Are you French? or A Communist?
Right on. Execution is everything (in any business). Fred Brooks tried informing the software community of this ~20 years ago.
People are everything on a software project. You can't put 1000 monkeys on 1000 type writters (pay them bananas) and expect the next great novel (or great piece of software). You can try but, it just ain't gonna happen. The reason IMHO is drive. Your typical "code-monkey" (or whatever derogatory slang term is used now a days) is only there for the "bananas". An engineer on the other hand, has two drivers - pride and fame. Every person who calls themself an engineer always wants to look like the smartest guy in the room. Don't get me wrong... engineers want money as well... but they know that the path to real fortune starts with credibility and acknoledgment.
Some might say outsourcing is an exception to this... That you can come up with great software without the need of strong enigneers (and people who really have an attachment to thier work). To me, outsourcing is the equivalent of fast food -- Its great for a quick meal. Its cheap. Its solves your immediate problem (aka hunger). But it isn't going to be good for you in the long run. Outsourcing companies are about one thing -- Cashing in on the slumming american economy that is still tech hungry.
We are led to belive that in fact it only costs around 15k credits for a basic ship, according to A New Hope. In the game it costs many, many times that. Certain items are too expensive for gamers, with constant upkeep required to ensure poeple keep playing (or your lose your stuff, oh no!), this in turn helps ensure monthly subscriptions just keep on rolling in. Until people get sick of it.
:)
If memory serves me... with 15K credits you "could almost buy your own ship for that..." (But who's gonna fly it, Kid? You?)
Like I said, before... it should be expensive own a ship. That's why there is a public transport. Does everyone who lives in NYC own a car? Think about why not...
Again... Like I said, I enjoy SWG (despite its flaws) so, my opinions are biased towards it. That being said, SWG is not for everyone. Its a MMORPG. I had thought the vision for games like these were- "The Sims meets Diablo". I can go out and kill stuff but, I still need to do other dialy tasks, not just adventure all the time. I'm surprised they didn't put in that your player has to eat every X hours. Also, these games are going to favor the people who are online and playing (even afk) the most. Don't like that sort of thing... don't play it. Is it far to expect someone playing for 3 weeks (game-time) to be at the same "level" as someone who has put in 7 months? (Now conversely, I don't think afk-play is fair either...) Games like these are also about emersion into a virtual world, in this case the StarWars Universe. Which, as you said, is a popular title (although IMHO is dying in its popularity). However, I disagree that its meant to cater to every StarWars fan (even if the LA and SOE marketing folks think so). Its meant to cater to folks who like StarWars and have a ton of time to devote to a MMORPG, just like you said. Look at the requirements just play the game... Its a target audience.
Please don't assert that other games have anything like the number of bugs that recent SOE titles (SWG, PlanetSide) have had.
Mine was a broad statement. Broadly speaking about commerical software to specific. The parent was whining about the stability of a game that is constantly being upgraded and modified. Majority of these modifications come via requests from the users of the game itelf through a community process, while often times poor, still makes the request. I don't think its reasonable to expect a software title to have modifications to it roll out monthly (sometimes daily), to not have bugs and not cost a fortune to maintain. The monthly fee (which borders on pricy as it is) probably really only goes to two places. Profit and maintence/upkeep of the server hardware (and possibly the StarWars licence). Now, contrary to all that, again as I said, I agree SOE has a track record of rolling out bad software. But so has just about every other software company, including Blizzard. I've experienced it personally. Yes, it sucks. Remember Diablo? I couldn't play it out of the box without patching. I guess I'm just used to the fact that commerical software is going to be shipped with bugs (sometimes major ones!). Its just part of a commerical software industry that is driven directly by market share and money. Only indirectly is it driven by "your personal satisfaction". To them... you still bought the product and they've provided you a fix. Yes, it was a hastle for you. They appoligize and ask you to "Please buy our next title." And people do!
I would like you to justify why you say that 'someone has to do it'? If it's tedious to do, eliminate it from the game, or at the very least minimise it - make many generic items of clothing items avalible from NPC's.
Ok, will do - SWG is supposed to be a 99% player driven game. Which means that every item should be made by a live player. Be it weapons,armor,hats,shoes,etc... If you don't want to be the guy tediously crafting the items, then find someone who does. By the way - that cra
Reading your post makes me think one thing: StarWars Galaxies is NOT for you!
1. Jedi, in the time frame that Galaxies is set in, are supposed to be sparse and in hiding. (I should know I hunt them for an SWG living). Its supposed to be hard to become a Jedi. If it as easy as TKM, then everyone would be one and the game would suck. It would be Jedi Knight 3 Online.
2. Galaxies is a multi-player game. If you don't want to interact with other people to play and/or fight, then you shouldn't have signed up to play with other people. PvP and guilds are what makes Galaxies what it is... an Empire Divided. Again, if it was as simple as "AFK grinding" your way to Master Pilot... Then everyone would be one. Then whats the point of get the title of Master?
3. Not everyone in the StarWars Universe should have a ship. It should cost big bucks to have and maintain them. It should be the real life equivilent of owning your own Jet. And yes, to reverse engineer something, it should take a bunch of the same exact part. You are trying to reverse engineer it! You are going to make mistakes and mess it up. Also, to build a high quality YT-13000 it should take A TON (x2) amount of expensive resources. It keeps the resource game compeditive and draws people into it.
4. Every piece of software has bugs... Get used to it. Yes, SOE has pissed me off with thier random fixes to the launch pad that locked me out for the day. Oh well... Its still my choice to play and its my choice to just put up with it and move on. If it was really unplayable game because of the bugs, I'd quit (and so would everyone else).
Personally, I like StarWars Galaxies a lot. So, my opinions may be very biased here. ...Hey its Slashdot! I just can't understand how you can sound-off about problems with game that is supposed to be 99.9% player driven and where everyone is supposed to be unique. The game needs an economy. You have to pay for items and maintenance. Not everyone should be allowed to become Jedi (personally, I think they should have a server cap) Basically, SWG (much like real life) is geared more towards the 'holo-grinders' than to the occational player. You need to pair up with folks inorder to survive. Yes, it sucks having to waste AP on a Tailor or Merchant but, someone has to do it or we'd all run around bartering in our underwear.
...and lots of it!
"Premature optimization is the root of all evil."
Software maintenance is the single largest portion of the software life cycle. (IMHO)
So, why would I as chief programmer or system architect on a software project (that has a budget) allow pieces of the of software system to be built with languages that the 'common' programmer doesn't know? Sure, you could spend money training all the 'lesser' programmers in Python and/or PERL but, why waste the money? There are perfectly good languages that are defacto standard, provide loads of functionality, development tools, and are known by the 'so-called common' programmer. Every language has its pros and cons. So, if Java's weakness is uber-hackers don't like to use it than PERL's and Python's is maintainability. :) )
(However, I think author might be poking the tiger with comments like: "Of all the great programmers I can think of, I know of only one who would voluntarily program in Java." And we all feel right into that trap... I know I did.
Also, the single most important resource on a software project is people (again IMHO). Typical development scenario: New contract has been acquired. So, you as the "boss" hired 10 developers for the new project. One of which falls in the author's super-elite hacker class. The project's initial system delivery goes as smooth as glass cause the 'brains' of the operation (or the 1% as the author calls it) did majority of the work. Well, shortly after the initial delivery the hacker decides the project is now boring, the system was delivered and he or she is now looking for a new challenge. He or she now leaves the program and/or company. Now, there is a serious issue. Since the hacker did 90% of the work, now 90% of the core knowledge of how to maintain the system has left as well. (And I don't care who you are. Jesus himself couldn't write software that is perfect the first time. Bugs are always present and requirements can and do change. And Jesus also can microwave a burrito so hot he himself couldn't eat it!)
Given the author's profile of the hacker- Quiet, anti-social and loves his/her corner office with the door locked (which is a BS stereo-type)probably also didn't bother to pass any knowledge on to anyone else on the project. So, tell me again why this person was 'the most valuable thing' to us and the delivered system?
I personally love working with people are technically sharp but, also like working with other people and sharing info. I have caught myself being sort of elitist when I was the technical authority on something. But what does that gain you? Nothing in my experience. You want to be respected by your peers and co-workers? Share with them your knowledge not just lines of code (be it byte-code or interpreted scripts).
If you ask me more data should be destroyed, too much is spend backing up useless crap. Human memory is great because a lot is forgotten leaving only what is really important.
One man's trash is another man's treasure...
I also graduated with an undergrad in Math and Computer Science. The University I attended initially didn't offer a traditional Computer Science degree. They offered a Math with a concentration in Computer Science. Shortly after my Sophmore year they started offering it and I ended up getting both. Starting out though, I asked the typical questions... Why do I need Calculus II? What the hell does Math have with Computer Science!?
Well, I got my answers 4 years (and a few math courses) later...
In the end I too really ended up enjoying courses like Diff Eq, Discrete Math, Linear Algebra and Numerical Methods. While I wasn't top of the class in these subjects (I spent most of my hours in front of a *nix machine)... I still did learn a lot about different ways to attack a problem... Whoa! There is more than one way to solve the derivative and its "computer friendly"!? Some programming concepts orginated from graph theroy!?
After reading the first few pages of posts... most of which take place during the ".com era". Its readily apparent why these projects failed. (And also why Outsourcing will probably experience the the same effect...)
Everyone seems to be coding. No one seems to be engineering.
Everyone seems to be coming up with solutions before ever really defining the problem.
Gesh... Does anyone read books on software engineering anymore? Fred Brooks wrote a book almost 30 years ago describing how to avoid these sorts of problems.
Just my observations based on the posts I've read...
You can do that today. Splint
I would have to agree. I actually went and looked at his website.... I didn't see a single class that one wouldn't find in a Java text book or seen posted on a Java forum.
In fact, the author clearly states his ideas for the Launch a Browser from anywhere class was taken from a Java Tip on JavaWorld
The best universal replacement part ever. I prefer the "classic silver" but, red adds a nice touch.
I can't stand hearing people say this as well...
Inspite of all these great frameworks that are poping up everywhere... You still need to understand how the code works inorder to utilize it properly.
Wow... Only 2 years away! Thanks for the heads up.