I agree with your initial reply in a general sense. But it has nothing to do with the Pope. He does not belong in a list of great thinkers. He doesn't ask questions. His answers come from a book that requires a resupposed belief in it to have merit.
That's not quite true. Take WoW for example. One could go from 1-70 on nothing but quests (though few do it is an option).
Most of these quests ignore the fact that other people have done them as well. YOU get to help a night elf learn that owlbears are protectors from the god Elune. YOU get to recover the lost treasure for a dwarf. That isn't even taking into account instances where the *zone* is just you and your group.
Now, there's no end. But then, traditional D&D didn't have an end either. You were were character just waiting for the next adventure. Death was the end (though some didn't age characters or have perma-death, so it's not really any different).
EQ your point was spot on. The game was the grind until you got to the end game then the game was gems since you were doing nothing most of the time except waiting in raid groups.
WoW changed the game back to more how it should be. It did it by ignoring "realness" and making the game more personal. Many of the quests are actually very interesting and unveil the backstory of the world and make you the one.
This kid is mid 30's with an actual kid. Your attitude is so trite. You'll like so many of the people. You cast off other's as "SUV driving folk" yet you come off as that person in this regards. Great leaders lead. A great president could easily get a major project approved by the people and congress. Hell, as of NOW we spend billions and billions on special tech projects. What is lacking is a great direction and unity of purpose.
But hey, don't let your cynical ass down. Keep your aspirations of meagerness alive. You and the rest of your kind are doing a great job so far.
Every election is the same thing. Candidates with speech writers talk the talk of "at home" issues. They can almost never do anything about it because "at home" issues are mostly local issues. Outside of coming up with a way to tax more more, and going to war, Washington doesn't do much for me. When the fed cuts rates or raises them, that impacts me at home. Most of the at home issues they don't belong in anyways.
But what ever happened to thinking big. Last time we thought big was the 60's I guess and the space race. We're a large country, I want a large project. One that inspires us (try putting a price on inspiration), and that becomes a legacy for an entire generation. One whose impact will last for decades.
I would love to see some grand project. Lunar colony (not in 20 years, but like, let's start doing it now). New space vehicle. Particle accelerator bigger then anything on the drawing board today. Something. Anything that inspires us and improves the planet.
Developed by Sony. Championed by Sony. That other's are on board in a "consortium" hardly does anything but gives names to a meaningless list and let's you make a semantical argument. Sony is the power player here no mistake about it. It's their dogfood, and some others are gladly eating it.
If storage size was all I cared about I'd agree with you. The DRM in blu-ray is less consumer friendly then HD-DVD. Not to mention I'd rather just about anyone control a standard for us then Sony. If HD-DVD was enough to give me HD movies, and it appears it was, I was hoping it would win out. But sadly the shifting DRM was probably why blu-ray's more appealing for the movie studios.
If there's a silver lining here it's that I think winning this race is meaningless. I don't think blu-ray is the next DVD. Laserdisc maybe.
"Even if there are a set of standards, there's nothing stopping them from skimping on parts, or even using slightly different architectures which throw the whole thing out of whack."
Sure there is. Microsoft. There's not a chance in hell MS would let anyone make another one that wasn't 100% compatible with the current ones. There's plenty of room (and common sense) for MS to allow others to make a 360 and to control the specs they are made to.
The difference between best buy and apple is best buy is selling everyone's stuff, apple is selling apple stuff. So it's a lot easier for apple stores to set up apple stuff with apple software (and a small amount of other stuff) then it is for best buy to set up other's people stuff with other people's software.
Gateway used to have stores, they were very similar to the apple stores now. There's just no way to take the apple store approach and apply it to a giant electronics/computer store.
Possibly I got it from going to an Apple store and noticing most of the installed stuff was APPLE software, with a few other pieces of software. They didn't have EVERY PIECE OF POSSIBLE APPLE SOFTWARE RUNNING ON STUFF.
Where do you trolls put your brains before you reply.
"Most Americans are paranoid xenophobes and the government philosophy backs that up."
Yup. And most French are pussy cowards. And most Jews own banks. Most black people are in jail. Most Mexicans work for lawn care companies. And most/. posters are stereotypical morons.
Great stat about the 3%. Let's leave out the part that financially it's overwhelming for most people, not to mention that it takes longer then a weekend since you're flying for about 20 hours each way to get to Europe (including your layover in New York in most cases, coming and going).
Apple's working with a very small potential software base. So of course they can have samples up and running and let you try. If Best Buy did that here in the states they would need to have, oh I don't know, 18,000 computers set up and running. And they also get a little bit different of a clientele that your typical electronics super store.
It's really very akin to their strategy in general. By controlling the variables they're able to set things up in a very successful manner.
I think you're spot on. I meant his original reply to me where he took exception to what I wrote wasn't needed. Sorry for the confusion.
As for the first impression, I think that is what sells it. When my CIO bought her's into the office for a "office party" and set it up on the projector, that sold a few more Wii's in 10 minutes because 40 people just got to see it and play with it. Bowling, Golf, Cow tossing, etc... Those sell it and they sell it fast. But it's also true what you wrote that it's an experience you can't get on any other console. It's very unique and amazing and it's the first impression of that unique experience as you wrote combined that sell it.
If his *group* are all hardcore video game junkies sure. I sincerely doubt it's everyone he knows though. And more to the point there was still no reason to take exception to what I wrote. Like you said, you're the exception. I never actually doubted anyone out there had at least 10 titles. But I think most people with Wii's realize that overall the library of titles for the Wii isn't that great compared to other systems, and that it's the initial impression that sells it.
No, actually that wouldn't be true. And I love your, "everyone I know who has a Wii, including myself". That's funny. I don't know a single person with a Wii, including myself, that has anywhere near ten games. I'd ask you to name the games and the people, but of course you'd just be making that up too. And wow, you'd really have to include some craptastic games.
There's never been a better first impression that turns out to be mostly hollow then the Wii console. The controller, as revolutionary as it is, only works good for certain games types. And even when it works great, there's often a novelty feel to it. Certain games after 10 minutes it's back to wanting just a typical old controller.
The Wii has became the ultimate dust collector in many homes. There's just very little out for it worth playing. But since that first ten minutes playing Golf or Bowling is just spectacular it keeps on selling.
Great list! The US is just so evil. Thank God you can still go to Russia and China. Those are nice places with no current wars and great human rights and freedoms.
In fact, there is evidence they had nothing to do with them. This comes from the fact that there is evidence that Egyptian labor was used to build them, and it wasn't slave labor, but a decent job during the "off season".
The part you missed in all that is:
1. MS used to bundle Compuserve, Prodigy, and AOL because MSN and IE existed. Each of those allowed connections to the internet (through their own networks) without using Netscape via their own software.
2. Netscape was trying to sell a browser. Something that for the last 10+ years has been as basic a need on a computer as a text editor. Paying for a browser would be akin to paying for notepad. And using an OS without a browser is as worthless as an OS without a text editor.
You freely throw around the "market" to describe IE being included in the OS. Why? The OS vs the browser market? What's to make that different then the IP stack vs OS market? Or the text editor vs OS market?
MS has been screwing me for years. I made the best game of computer hearts ever and no one will buy it because MS includes Hearts in Windows.
3. You've completely ignored Mosaic in all of this. And it's history here is important.
My bottom line on this is when you can logically layout the "market" part of software that comes with an OS, I'll buy your argument. But until then I see your argument as needing to cherry pick software types from a large list, while the others your completely ignore.
"Interestingly, it seems fair to say that the expectation of a web browser included with the OS exists because of Microsoft's decision to put IE into Windows for free back in the day."
The internet was starting to boom before IE was included.
In the mid 90's when the boom started, you bought a computer with Windows on it and it also came with Prodigy, Compuserve, AOL. People would usually get one of those, and then they're connecting into their networks, using their software and browsers, bypassing Netscape completely,
Windows 95 comes out, MSN launches, IE gets included. It really was a huge part in letting people bypass the huge national ISP's that really put you on their networks with a proxy to the internet, to letting you find a local ISP.
But either way I'd say a browser is as much a basic part of an OS these days as a text editor is, and needs to be included. If MS killed IE and put Firefox on every box I'd be a happy man. But the monopoly talk of the browser has always been crap.
MS bundles notepad and wordpad in the OS, why not a complaint on that? A web browser should be included in an OS because it's part of what we expect to use the OS for in almost all cases.
There is no "clear cut" as you're trying to say when it comes to an OS. What should be included vs what doesn't have to be is almost all gray area.
IE with the OS was nothing like Ma Bell, which was a clear cut case. Users chose to use an MS OS where other options were available, they had IE because of that, and yet still could install a different browser. With Ma Bell you were screwed. You're only choice to make a call was their services on their network.
MS got bent over without any logic on the IE issue.
Right, because this story was on par with "aliens make contact with Earth" being posted on the Onion.
Apple buying someone out, then threatening them when it went public is SOOOOOOOOOO unbelievable that only a fool would believe it.
What a bunch of condescending idiots some of you are.
Slashdot Mirror
Only the true messiah would deny his divinity.
Ergo...I think this denial is a sure sign that SETI has found something.
I agree with your initial reply in a general sense. But it has nothing to do with the Pope. He does not belong in a list of great thinkers. He doesn't ask questions. His answers come from a book that requires a resupposed belief in it to have merit.
That's not quite true. Take WoW for example. One could go from 1-70 on nothing but quests (though few do it is an option).
Most of these quests ignore the fact that other people have done them as well. YOU get to help a night elf learn that owlbears are protectors from the god Elune. YOU get to recover the lost treasure for a dwarf. That isn't even taking into account instances where the *zone* is just you and your group.
Now, there's no end. But then, traditional D&D didn't have an end either. You were were character just waiting for the next adventure. Death was the end (though some didn't age characters or have perma-death, so it's not really any different).
EQ your point was spot on. The game was the grind until you got to the end game then the game was gems since you were doing nothing most of the time except waiting in raid groups.
WoW changed the game back to more how it should be. It did it by ignoring "realness" and making the game more personal. Many of the quests are actually very interesting and unveil the backstory of the world and make you the one.
This kid is mid 30's with an actual kid. Your attitude is so trite. You'll like so many of the people. You cast off other's as "SUV driving folk" yet you come off as that person in this regards. Great leaders lead. A great president could easily get a major project approved by the people and congress. Hell, as of NOW we spend billions and billions on special tech projects. What is lacking is a great direction and unity of purpose.
But hey, don't let your cynical ass down. Keep your aspirations of meagerness alive. You and the rest of your kind are doing a great job so far.
Every election is the same thing. Candidates with speech writers talk the talk of "at home" issues. They can almost never do anything about it because "at home" issues are mostly local issues. Outside of coming up with a way to tax more more, and going to war, Washington doesn't do much for me. When the fed cuts rates or raises them, that impacts me at home. Most of the at home issues they don't belong in anyways.
But what ever happened to thinking big. Last time we thought big was the 60's I guess and the space race. We're a large country, I want a large project. One that inspires us (try putting a price on inspiration), and that becomes a legacy for an entire generation. One whose impact will last for decades.
I would love to see some grand project. Lunar colony (not in 20 years, but like, let's start doing it now). New space vehicle. Particle accelerator bigger then anything on the drawing board today. Something. Anything that inspires us and improves the planet.
Developed by Sony. Championed by Sony.
That other's are on board in a "consortium" hardly does anything but gives names to a meaningless list and let's you make a semantical argument. Sony is the power player here no mistake about it. It's their dogfood, and some others are gladly eating it.
If storage size was all I cared about I'd agree with you. The DRM in blu-ray is less consumer friendly then HD-DVD. Not to mention I'd rather just about anyone control a standard for us then Sony. If HD-DVD was enough to give me HD movies, and it appears it was, I was hoping it would win out. But sadly the shifting DRM was probably why blu-ray's more appealing for the movie studios.
If there's a silver lining here it's that I think winning this race is meaningless. I don't think blu-ray is the next DVD. Laserdisc maybe.
"Even if there are a set of standards, there's nothing stopping them from skimping on parts, or even using slightly different architectures which throw the whole thing out of whack."
Sure there is. Microsoft. There's not a chance in hell MS would let anyone make another one that wasn't 100% compatible with the current ones. There's plenty of room (and common sense) for MS to allow others to make a 360 and to control the specs they are made to.
"Imagine if WoW didn't work for a week"
WoW is down all the time. XBL has much better uptime then WoW.
No, I'm sure they don't. Because it's most likely a load issue, or a hardware issue. It's not an OS issue that Linux would fix.
The difference between best buy and apple is best buy is selling everyone's stuff, apple is selling apple stuff. So it's a lot easier for apple stores to set up apple stuff with apple software (and a small amount of other stuff) then it is for best buy to set up other's people stuff with other people's software.
Gateway used to have stores, they were very similar to the apple stores now. There's just no way to take the apple store approach and apply it to a giant electronics/computer store.
Possibly I got it from going to an Apple store and noticing most of the installed stuff was APPLE software, with a few other pieces of software. They didn't have EVERY PIECE OF POSSIBLE APPLE SOFTWARE RUNNING ON STUFF.
Where do you trolls put your brains before you reply.
"Most Americans are paranoid xenophobes and the government philosophy backs that up."
/. posters are stereotypical morons.
Yup. And most French are pussy cowards. And most Jews own banks. Most black people are in jail. Most Mexicans work for lawn care companies. And most
Great stat about the 3%. Let's leave out the part that financially it's overwhelming for most people, not to mention that it takes longer then a weekend since you're flying for about 20 hours each way to get to Europe (including your layover in New York in most cases, coming and going).
Basically, you're a stereotypical ignorant fool.
Apple's working with a very small potential software base. So of course they can have samples up and running and let you try. If Best Buy did that here in the states they would need to have, oh I don't know, 18,000 computers set up and running. And they also get a little bit different of a clientele that your typical electronics super store.
It's really very akin to their strategy in general. By controlling the variables they're able to set things up in a very successful manner.
I think you're spot on. I meant his original reply to me where he took exception to what I wrote wasn't needed. Sorry for the confusion.
As for the first impression, I think that is what sells it. When my CIO bought her's into the office for a "office party" and set it up on the projector, that sold a few more Wii's in 10 minutes because 40 people just got to see it and play with it. Bowling, Golf, Cow tossing, etc... Those sell it and they sell it fast. But it's also true what you wrote that it's an experience you can't get on any other console. It's very unique and amazing and it's the first impression of that unique experience as you wrote combined that sell it.
If his *group* are all hardcore video game junkies sure. I sincerely doubt it's everyone he knows though. And more to the point there was still no reason to take exception to what I wrote. Like you said, you're the exception. I never actually doubted anyone out there had at least 10 titles. But I think most people with Wii's realize that overall the library of titles for the Wii isn't that great compared to other systems, and that it's the initial impression that sells it.
No, actually that wouldn't be true. And I love your, "everyone I know who has a Wii, including myself". That's funny. I don't know a single person with a Wii, including myself, that has anywhere near ten games. I'd ask you to name the games and the people, but of course you'd just be making that up too. And wow, you'd really have to include some craptastic games.
There's never been a better first impression that turns out to be mostly hollow then the Wii console. The controller, as revolutionary as it is, only works good for certain games types. And even when it works great, there's often a novelty feel to it. Certain games after 10 minutes it's back to wanting just a typical old controller. The Wii has became the ultimate dust collector in many homes. There's just very little out for it worth playing. But since that first ten minutes playing Golf or Bowling is just spectacular it keeps on selling.
Great list! The US is just so evil. Thank God you can still go to Russia and China. Those are nice places with no current wars and great human rights and freedoms.
In fact, there is evidence they had nothing to do with them. This comes from the fact that there is evidence that Egyptian labor was used to build them, and it wasn't slave labor, but a decent job during the "off season".
The part you missed in all that is:
1. MS used to bundle Compuserve, Prodigy, and AOL because MSN and IE existed. Each of those allowed connections to the internet (through their own networks) without using Netscape via their own software.
2. Netscape was trying to sell a browser. Something that for the last 10+ years has been as basic a need on a computer as a text editor. Paying for a browser would be akin to paying for notepad. And using an OS without a browser is as worthless as an OS without a text editor.
You freely throw around the "market" to describe IE being included in the OS. Why? The OS vs the browser market? What's to make that different then the IP stack vs OS market? Or the text editor vs OS market?
MS has been screwing me for years. I made the best game of computer hearts ever and no one will buy it because MS includes Hearts in Windows.
3. You've completely ignored Mosaic in all of this. And it's history here is important.
My bottom line on this is when you can logically layout the "market" part of software that comes with an OS, I'll buy your argument. But until then I see your argument as needing to cherry pick software types from a large list, while the others your completely ignore.
"Interestingly, it seems fair to say that the expectation of a web browser included with the OS exists because of Microsoft's decision to put IE into Windows for free back in the day."
The internet was starting to boom before IE was included.
In the mid 90's when the boom started, you bought a computer with Windows on it and it also came with Prodigy, Compuserve, AOL. People would usually get one of those, and then they're connecting into their networks, using their software and browsers, bypassing Netscape completely,
Windows 95 comes out, MSN launches, IE gets included. It really was a huge part in letting people bypass the huge national ISP's that really put you on their networks with a proxy to the internet, to letting you find a local ISP.
But either way I'd say a browser is as much a basic part of an OS these days as a text editor is, and needs to be included. If MS killed IE and put Firefox on every box I'd be a happy man. But the monopoly talk of the browser has always been crap.
MS bundles notepad and wordpad in the OS, why not a complaint on that? A web browser should be included in an OS because it's part of what we expect to use the OS for in almost all cases.
There is no "clear cut" as you're trying to say when it comes to an OS. What should be included vs what doesn't have to be is almost all gray area.
IE with the OS was nothing like Ma Bell, which was a clear cut case. Users chose to use an MS OS where other options were available, they had IE because of that, and yet still could install a different browser. With Ma Bell you were screwed. You're only choice to make a call was their services on their network.
MS got bent over without any logic on the IE issue.
How about your delusions that Apple invented the PC experience. Just what did Apple invent? The GUI? The mouse? 1-click checkout? The MP3 player?
Right, because this story was on par with "aliens make contact with Earth" being posted on the Onion.
Apple buying someone out, then threatening them when it went public is SOOOOOOOOOO unbelievable that only a fool would believe it.
What a bunch of condescending idiots some of you are.