Then you won't be our better results. You're most likely not in our target audience. Now, smart advertisers realize this well ahead of time and would much rather save the client money and not advertise in a way that you would see (since it would be wasted). Unfortunately, some of us prefer the blanket attack since that may be more effective. Increasing the ability to target things means that we will be able to avoid advertising to you more and more. Yeah, some people might target you in particular, but those idiots would have done so anyway. If you don't like any ads at all, you are welcome to your opinion, but please realize it is just that, an opinion. Our job is not to trick you into anything. People who buy a product and feel tricked are rarely repeat customers, and thats a problem for us. Our goal is to inform people who would be interested in our products, and offer them reasons to buy it.
It seems a lot of people on here think we don't understand the backlash advertising can generate. We're not idiots, we know that people install popup blockers because they don't like popups. So sometimes we create viral ads that they DO like. I agree there is plenty wrong in advertising. But it is an evolving industry just like every other, and it is still adjusting to this new time when consumers have more and more control over their media. But we are making an active effort to adjust to this, and this is just further progress towards it.
Ok...I'm sure I'll get flamed for this but here goes:
I happen to be a young ad exec (not to mention a privacy nut, avid slashdot reader, gamer, geek, etc) and I'm really getting tired of people not understanding our industry.
Are there sleezy advertising people? HELL YES! Is it the vast majority of them? HELL NO! You see, there is this interesting phenomenon where people tend to only remember negative experiences over positive ones, and then make generalizations that most are bad.
And guess what, this is true of ANY industry. Software development? Yup, you got your sleezeballs there too, but you wouldn't say the vast majority are that way. (Or would you?)
What really pisses me off is that everybody assumes that our goal is to just annoy you and grab your attention in any way possible. Attention Slashdotters: We Are Not Idiots! (All of us at least. We know damn well that if we are advtertising a product to privacy advocate geeks, we will not win them over with a popup that says "based on your previous purchases of viagra from www.biggerpenis.com....". But the truth is that often times the advertising us geeks find offense with is not targeted at us at all, and in fact the target audience has no problem whatsoever with it.
New technologies will continue to be developed to target more accurately because that generates better results. I repeat: IT GENERATES BETTER RESULTS! This means that due to it being targeted better, people are buying more! We are not holding a gun to their heads saying they have to buy, we inform them of the product (and yes, some do it less truthfully than others, I will not lie about that)and they make the decision to buy.
I also want to comment about a new form of advertising many of you most likely participate in. Viral advertising. All those cool video clips that companies put out, all those funny websites like CoqRock.com, or Subservient Chicken, all of these get passed on by people like you because you find them interesting, clever, and entertaining. THAT is the goal of most advertising agencies. Believe it or not, we LIKE making good ads that people like. New technology lets us do this in different ways.
So in summary, I'm not saying there isn't a dark side to our industry (like every single other friggin industry in existence), I'm just saying that everybody seems to focus on the bad and ignore the good. If people want some proof that good advertising exists, check out the Cannes Lion Awards. They have videos of all the winners, and I'm sure most Slashdotters would approve.
You couldn't be more correct. It is a time sink, and a psychologically addictive one at that.
I present this essay that does a great job explaining how every single MMORPG out there today (they use EQ as an example, but it applies to all) is one big virtual Skinner Box. Once that idea sinks in a bit, it does kinda kill the fun of all MMORPGs for you because you see exactly what buttons they're pushing, and exactly how it is drawing you in and how ultimately there IS NO FRIGGIN POINT!
That is why I find myself now playing FPS almost exclusively. It relies on skill rather than walking up to critter A, hitting attack, and waiting.
Wake me when they actually make an MMORPG that you actually have to PLAY, and please don't say WoW, its just as guilty as the rest, its just pretty and more polished.
If this is a PR plant, then it might indeed be coming out of the mouth of someone at Microsoft, and given how much they've invested in PR for the 360 launch, I honestly wouldn't be that shocked if it was.
Interesting response. It appears we had some miscommunication on the term "should". It would have been more accurate to state it the way you did as "should" brings the moral argument into play.
But thats another can of worms. You see, morals are opinions, not facts of life. So while you and I probably agree on some pretty standard ones, there is no fundamental science that says THIS IS HOW THINGS HAVE TO BE.
And one could argue that reproduction is another necessity of our instincts and needs. In todays world, that is becoming increasingly tied to ones ability to provide financially (instead of hunting), and thus one could argue that the person scamming was simply trying to fulfill this need through his activities. Its not necessarily a rock solid argument, I don't even have any studies to back me up, all I'm saying is that just as I can't make a blanket statement saying that this person deserves to get scammed, you cannot make a blanket statement saying that they deserve not to.
As to your point on killing and natural selection vs murder...well, that's natural selection at work right there. One person (murderer) will go on to potentially reproduce, the other (murdered) will not.
Before you go criticizing others on their scientific theory, you might want to check your own work first.;)
I welcome any further discussion on this topic though.
I really wish they made more games that had a "free" mode where you didn't have to race.
A lot of people enjoy simply driving on an open road or a winding mountain side. And yes, you could do that in real life, but it is not always possible/convenient. Nor would it be possible to do with visuals that looked like this.
They do this with flight sims, why not driving sims? And please don't respond with "that idea sucks' or some equivelant flame. I realize this type of gaming is not attractive to everybody, but not everybody plays games to get an adrenaline rush, some of us play just to enjoy ourselves and unwind.
You know, I'm sure I'll be marked a troll for pointing out the obvious, but I'm sure if you looked at statistics for CS enrollment at various institutions of higher education you would find that they too skew drastically into whitey-ville. No one wants to say it, but what we're all thinking is that a lot of these "minorities" who play video games aren't exactly game developer material. In fact, most of them will be lucky if they graduate highschool and don't get thrown in jail.
Whether its politically correct or not, the vast majority of white-collar jobs today are held by caucasians, especially in computer-related fields.
At some point we need to stop being so damned worried about who we offend, and instead take a look out the window at reality.
Well, I agree that T-Mobile has good tech support, and on the 1 year thing, however in both Illinois and Minnesota they have really inconsistent reception. Not only that, but I get dropped calls all the time, on average I'd say at least 1 per 10 minute phone call.
"Napster
I don't see the attraction. A centralized database where your connections can be tracked and you are at the bandwidth mercy of a single uploading server. No thanks. I'll stick with BitTorrent."
I think they were referring to Napster BEFORE you had to worry about getting sued by the RIAA. When Napster first got big, it WAS revolutionary, and while you personally may not have seen the attraction, MILLIONS did. I challenge you to name one piece of software that gained so much popularity so quickly.
"One thing is for sure: It's time to start gearing up for an expensive Christmas."
Or you could you know...just not buy it when it comes out...
I'm getting pretty sick of these companies jacking up the price a ridiculous amount (10 bucks!) just because its new. So I wait for it to come down to an acceptable level to buy it, and I suggest you do the same. By purchasing it when its brand new, you are sending them the message that it is acceptable to jack the prices up that much. Purchasing it later at the lowered price sends them the message in the only way they'll understand...the bottom line.
"It is because of this that profiteers hate it. Why? Because instead of buying products, people will have sex."
Hmmm...seems its just SOME of the profiteers, because as I recall the sex industry is a multi BILLION dollar industry and shows no sign of going away anytime soon
You know, for a group of people that prides itself so highly on how smart they are...few seem to realize that it is this mentality that drives girls away from them, because they are "too stupid".
If nerds are so smart, why can't they figure out that getting a girlfriend requires a different type of intelligence. But no, of course something must be wrong with the other person.
Take it from someone who's been there, who never had friends, who girls walked all over, and who had social anxiety disorder to top it all off. The sooner you learn to be humble and not brag about how smart you are, the sooner people won't mind hanging out with you.
The sooner you learn to take interest in other people's interests, the better chance you have of them wanting to learn about yours. You have to give to receive, but it is understandable that this generation of nerds who expect satisfaction at the push of a button would have difficulty understanding that.
Take it from someone who's been there and learned to adapt, you'll be a lot happier in the long run.
Not to be personal, and I'm sure you are a scientist.....but as a scientist you do realize that you can't possibly expect us to believe you just because you say "oh, I'm a scientist researching global warming".
You don't get to be a company as big as MS by not taking care of your homework before you do something like this, and rest assured MS will have the best people money can buy working on this. Do you seriously think they would plow ahead and choose a name like this if they didn't think they were safe?
As for the guy suing, I see two possible reasons....either he's just protecting his company and after MS, or he thinks that if he raises a big enough stink, they might pay him off or buy him out, either way he wins.
Wow....this happened in Brazil, and through Orkut? Who would have ever imagined. This post is not a troll or a flame, but I have to say...as the owner of the Japanese Food/Sushi Lovers community which has 88.7 THOUSAND members right now (the vast majority of which are Brazilian), it is the Brazilians that have ruined Orkut for everybody else.
Don't get me wrong, most of them are extremely nice people who are eager to learn about other cultures, however there are some who are incredibly racist, and think that just because they have the largest population on Orkut, that they don't have to follow the rules when it says English Only in a community.
I've since enforced a rule that drew a LOT of hostility whereby I deleted every post that did not contain an English translation, and banned people for disruptive behavior (you have no idea how many attacks there were on the community).
I've grown a little lax due to work lately, but I can easily say they ruined it for the rest of us. Too bad, with a bit more work, Orkut could have been quite cool.
Some of your bad points are quite interesting because I'm almost positive someone in the marketing department decided they were very GOOD ideas, and thats why things are like that.
"# The manual just plain SUCKS. There's not really anything in it to show you how to use the new Squad and Commander capabilities, and I couldn't find them on the web."
The manual DEFINITELY sucks....but for $34.99 you can purchase the Official Strategy Guide!!!
"# Creating an online account involved starting BF2 three times and exiting three times when clicking to view the agreements and privacy policies. Each took about 15 minutes to read."
I'm truly scared at the level of control they have just gained over the multiplayer aspect of their game. One of the big complaints is the racket they have on the ranked servers, forcing you to cough up roughly $500/mo to rent one from them in order for it to be ranked.
"You need a new video card, not because you couldn't play without but because the designers just decided to use the new shader model. If you don't have an acceptable video card, the game just quits to the desktop with no information."
Doesn't EA have a big partnership with Nvidia? Hmmm....I'm sure that had nothing to do with this at all.
"It's much more satifying to play as a sniper now that the game doesn't give away your hiding spot everytime you successfully take someone down."
Or rather it would be if they hadn't completely gimped the sniper rifles. I can understand making them a little less precise, but it is absolutely fucking ridiculous that when you hit someone with a.50 cal sniper rifle (the upgraded one) from long range, or even medium range, they don't always automatically die. Even if you pop them in the head or chest. I'm sorry, but just about every single person hates what they've done to the damage of sniper rifles. I've been on maps where more people are sniping with rockets than they are with sniper rifles.
While I agree that they want you to see as much as possible, ultimately it is about getting ROI. And they are finding out fast that people are glossing over the bombardment and instead starting to really only be affected by the highly targeted, creative, and interactive ads.
Bombardments still have their place in the industry, but smart execs are realizing they get better bang for their buck by being more focused.
I feel I should also mention that I am an advertising exec, and that just about every report that has been done on the topic has backed up my claims, and while I'm too lazy to actually look them up, I'm sure a quick browse through Ad Age would have more than enough info on the subject.
It also costs $50 for someone to be listed on the service. Honestly, I think the students would be better off giving out demo discs and getting paid to play at parties.
Bingo. I know you were being sarcastic, but seriously, what benefit could this possibly offer the consumer? I can't wait to see how their marketing department tries to spin this. Probably won't say much beyond how it allows you to view protected content. Probably won't mention that it is a crippled monitor that you will undoubtedly pay more for.
Slashdot Mirror
It seems a lot of people on here think we don't understand the backlash advertising can generate. We're not idiots, we know that people install popup blockers because they don't like popups. So sometimes we create viral ads that they DO like. I agree there is plenty wrong in advertising. But it is an evolving industry just like every other, and it is still adjusting to this new time when consumers have more and more control over their media. But we are making an active effort to adjust to this, and this is just further progress towards it.
I happen to be a young ad exec (not to mention a privacy nut, avid slashdot reader, gamer, geek, etc) and I'm really getting tired of people not understanding our industry.
Are there sleezy advertising people? HELL YES! Is it the vast majority of them? HELL NO! You see, there is this interesting phenomenon where people tend to only remember negative experiences over positive ones, and then make generalizations that most are bad.
And guess what, this is true of ANY industry. Software development? Yup, you got your sleezeballs there too, but you wouldn't say the vast majority are that way. (Or would you?)
What really pisses me off is that everybody assumes that our goal is to just annoy you and grab your attention in any way possible. Attention Slashdotters: We Are Not Idiots! (All of us at least. We know damn well that if we are advtertising a product to privacy advocate geeks, we will not win them over with a popup that says "based on your previous purchases of viagra from www.biggerpenis.com....". But the truth is that often times the advertising us geeks find offense with is not targeted at us at all, and in fact the target audience has no problem whatsoever with it.
New technologies will continue to be developed to target more accurately because that generates better results. I repeat: IT GENERATES BETTER RESULTS! This means that due to it being targeted better, people are buying more! We are not holding a gun to their heads saying they have to buy, we inform them of the product (and yes, some do it less truthfully than others, I will not lie about that)and they make the decision to buy.
I also want to comment about a new form of advertising many of you most likely participate in. Viral advertising. All those cool video clips that companies put out, all those funny websites like CoqRock.com, or Subservient Chicken, all of these get passed on by people like you because you find them interesting, clever, and entertaining. THAT is the goal of most advertising agencies. Believe it or not, we LIKE making good ads that people like. New technology lets us do this in different ways.
So in summary, I'm not saying there isn't a dark side to our industry (like every single other friggin industry in existence), I'm just saying that everybody seems to focus on the bad and ignore the good. If people want some proof that good advertising exists, check out the Cannes Lion Awards. They have videos of all the winners, and I'm sure most Slashdotters would approve.
I present this essay that does a great job explaining how every single MMORPG out there today (they use EQ as an example, but it applies to all) is one big virtual Skinner Box. Once that idea sinks in a bit, it does kinda kill the fun of all MMORPGs for you because you see exactly what buttons they're pushing, and exactly how it is drawing you in and how ultimately there IS NO FRIGGIN POINT!
That is why I find myself now playing FPS almost exclusively. It relies on skill rather than walking up to critter A, hitting attack, and waiting.
Wake me when they actually make an MMORPG that you actually have to PLAY, and please don't say WoW, its just as guilty as the rest, its just pretty and more polished.
But thats another can of worms. You see, morals are opinions, not facts of life. So while you and I probably agree on some pretty standard ones, there is no fundamental science that says THIS IS HOW THINGS HAVE TO BE.
And one could argue that reproduction is another necessity of our instincts and needs. In todays world, that is becoming increasingly tied to ones ability to provide financially (instead of hunting), and thus one could argue that the person scamming was simply trying to fulfill this need through his activities. Its not necessarily a rock solid argument, I don't even have any studies to back me up, all I'm saying is that just as I can't make a blanket statement saying that this person deserves to get scammed, you cannot make a blanket statement saying that they deserve not to.
As to your point on killing and natural selection vs murder...well, that's natural selection at work right there. One person (murderer) will go on to potentially reproduce, the other (murdered) will not.
Before you go criticizing others on their scientific theory, you might want to check your own work first. ;)
I welcome any further discussion on this topic though.
A lot of people enjoy simply driving on an open road or a winding mountain side. And yes, you could do that in real life, but it is not always possible/convenient. Nor would it be possible to do with visuals that looked like this.
They do this with flight sims, why not driving sims? And please don't respond with "that idea sucks' or some equivelant flame. I realize this type of gaming is not attractive to everybody, but not everybody plays games to get an adrenaline rush, some of us play just to enjoy ourselves and unwind.
Whether its politically correct or not, the vast majority of white-collar jobs today are held by caucasians, especially in computer-related fields.
At some point we need to stop being so damned worried about who we offend, and instead take a look out the window at reality.
I don't see the attraction. A centralized database where your connections can be tracked and you are at the bandwidth mercy of a single uploading server. No thanks. I'll stick with BitTorrent."
I think they were referring to Napster BEFORE you had to worry about getting sued by the RIAA. When Napster first got big, it WAS revolutionary, and while you personally may not have seen the attraction, MILLIONS did. I challenge you to name one piece of software that gained so much popularity so quickly.
According to Darwin he does.
Or you could you know...just not buy it when it comes out...
I'm getting pretty sick of these companies jacking up the price a ridiculous amount (10 bucks!) just because its new. So I wait for it to come down to an acceptable level to buy it, and I suggest you do the same. By purchasing it when its brand new, you are sending them the message that it is acceptable to jack the prices up that much. Purchasing it later at the lowered price sends them the message in the only way they'll understand...the bottom line.
Hmmm...seems its just SOME of the profiteers, because as I recall the sex industry is a multi BILLION dollar industry and shows no sign of going away anytime soon
If nerds are so smart, why can't they figure out that getting a girlfriend requires a different type of intelligence. But no, of course something must be wrong with the other person.
Take it from someone who's been there, who never had friends, who girls walked all over, and who had social anxiety disorder to top it all off. The sooner you learn to be humble and not brag about how smart you are, the sooner people won't mind hanging out with you.
The sooner you learn to take interest in other people's interests, the better chance you have of them wanting to learn about yours. You have to give to receive, but it is understandable that this generation of nerds who expect satisfaction at the push of a button would have difficulty understanding that.
Take it from someone who's been there and learned to adapt, you'll be a lot happier in the long run.
Not at all. Who else do you think could properly provide 1st line tech support on these things?
PROOF?
As for the guy suing, I see two possible reasons....either he's just protecting his company and after MS, or he thinks that if he raises a big enough stink, they might pay him off or buy him out, either way he wins.
Don't get me wrong, most of them are extremely nice people who are eager to learn about other cultures, however there are some who are incredibly racist, and think that just because they have the largest population on Orkut, that they don't have to follow the rules when it says English Only in a community.
I've since enforced a rule that drew a LOT of hostility whereby I deleted every post that did not contain an English translation, and banned people for disruptive behavior (you have no idea how many attacks there were on the community).
I've grown a little lax due to work lately, but I can easily say they ruined it for the rest of us. Too bad, with a bit more work, Orkut could have been quite cool.
"# The manual just plain SUCKS. There's not really anything in it to show you how to use the new Squad and Commander capabilities, and I couldn't find them on the web."
The manual DEFINITELY sucks....but for $34.99 you can purchase the Official Strategy Guide!!!
"# Creating an online account involved starting BF2 three times and exiting three times when clicking to view the agreements and privacy policies. Each took about 15 minutes to read."
I'm truly scared at the level of control they have just gained over the multiplayer aspect of their game. One of the big complaints is the racket they have on the ranked servers, forcing you to cough up roughly $500/mo to rent one from them in order for it to be ranked.
"You need a new video card, not because you couldn't play without but because the designers just decided to use the new shader model. If you don't have an acceptable video card, the game just quits to the desktop with no information."
Doesn't EA have a big partnership with Nvidia? Hmmm....I'm sure that had nothing to do with this at all.
Or rather it would be if they hadn't completely gimped the sniper rifles. I can understand making them a little less precise, but it is absolutely fucking ridiculous that when you hit someone with a .50 cal sniper rifle (the upgraded one) from long range, or even medium range, they don't always automatically die. Even if you pop them in the head or chest. I'm sorry, but just about every single person hates what they've done to the damage of sniper rifles. I've been on maps where more people are sniping with rockets than they are with sniper rifles.
Bombardments still have their place in the industry, but smart execs are realizing they get better bang for their buck by being more focused.
I feel I should also mention that I am an advertising exec, and that just about every report that has been done on the topic has backed up my claims, and while I'm too lazy to actually look them up, I'm sure a quick browse through Ad Age would have more than enough info on the subject.
And don't forget the hydraulics. Oh god, kill me now.