this study, and all the replys just reminds me of me of one of favorite movie quotes of all time: "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it."
This sounds good in theory, except that it ties you down to a single computer.
There are so many ways around this "problem" portableapps dot com for one, password keeper apps (Password Gorilla works on all 3 major OSes), synced bookmarks with Delicious is my current setup - but I have had a few over the years.
Now "ties you down to a single browser" or "requires you to have your USB drive with you" I would agree with - but not a single computer.
ClamAV is another defective security suite that does nothing but fuel the ignorant wanna-be poweruser...if you want to be cheap, at least get a free product that has commercial backing such as Avast.
The previous post is brought to you by another, defective ignorant wanna-be poweruser.
Last I checked, ClamAV IS NOT a "security suite" - is it an Anti Virus scanner. Nothing more.
What evidence to you have that it is defective? This short ClamAV user-base seems to find it to be effective enough to actually write about their success. And many on this list are not little SO-HO / Hobby companies.
My guess, your only experience with ClamAV is on the desktop. Where I would agree it is not the best choice for "Joe Six Pack". Where it shines on the server/gateway. How many servers do you admin? What is your user base on those servers? How much experience do you have with sever side AV?
Please bring facts next time, and keep your trolling to yourself.
USB in a Linux thin-client environment blows chunks. There's a project to encapsulate USB over TCP streams; it's semi-dead and has some reliability and polish issues. There's no other way to smoothly support floppy or CD-ROM drives on your thin-clients, even if they have that hardware.
Funny, I have 3 clients. Each are actually old sub-500MHz pcs. Each has a floppy drive, a cd-rom, and a usb slot. I can plug in any of the three, and they show up on the users desktop (if he/she is using GNOME/KDE). LTSP refers to it as localdev (local devices)
Whatever you do, don't waste your time with LTSP. It's a distribution of Linux specialized for running on thin-clients,
Just plan wrong. LTSP is not run ON thin-clients. It runs the thin-clients.
but for some unimaginable reason the "LTSP way" also involves installing their opaque software packages on the (confusingly-named) "server."
The confusingly-named server, as you say, IS THE SERVER. It serve out the desktop to the thin clients. You don't install anything on the thin clients.
If you can even run Linux on some platform, you're better off installing Linux on it directly. After that, enable XDMCP with xdm, gdm, or whatever you use on your existing workstation, and throw a line into/etc/inittab on the thin-client (e.g. 7X:23:respawn:/usr/bin/X11/X -query workstation-address ).
The method you illustrate will not allow for localdev access, will not allow for sound (unless you do some major work with esd as you mentioned earlier in your post), AND still requires you keeping an additional machine up-to-date. It can be done (I did it what a laptop so I could have a wireless "thin-client")
Do a little more research before you begin attacking something. You clearly do not understand how LTSP works.
I am running it in slow hardware... Pentium 4 3.2ghz 1gig ram and SATA drives.
[SNIP] Yes, I only have a low end Nvidia 6600GT video card with 256 meg of ram, so that might be the problem as well.
Is it just me, or does this sound like a really decent machine. Hell, for me that would out preform any one of the 6 computers I have here in my house.
If it is really that "low end" to you I would be more then happy to take it off your hand.
To bring things back on target, I think the real problem with Vista is illustrated in the posting. It is not the "circusware" or the security issues, although all those are issues also. The big issue is the hardware requirements. An OS needing 256MB ram video card, and 3.2GHz processor.... Is it an OS or a FPS ?
Open find. Drag stupid window off the text area. Find. Damn, window moved back to the middle. Lather, rinse, repeat.
If I had mod points, that alone would earn you some.
That "feature" alone drives me nuts. I use 'Find' all the time in MS Office apps for work, and the UI is horrible. Too big, does not keep default settings (I want excel to search all tabs by default, not just current), options hidden under different buttons (Word says "More" and Excel says "options"), etc. And that is just "find": the hidden menus, the task PAIN, I could go on, but now I am OT and ranting.
I currently do as much spreadsheet work as I can in Gnumeric/OO.o and my word stuff in AbiWord/OO.o when I can since the UI in Office is so messed up (at least for me).
Reading through the comments, I could not help but notice something. Those that like going to the theater [seemed to be] of the "younger generation" and those that liked to stay home [seemed to be] of the married/have children generation (which I happen to be part of). I really do not think this is "by accident".
Someone mentioned going to the theater being a social event, and talking to people about a movie "I just saw on DVD" is not as exciting. Well personally, since becoming a member of the "older generation" I find a lot more interesting (and intelligent) things to talk about besides the latest flick.
Many theater defenders used the TOTAL HOME COST > the NUMBER OF MOVIES ATTENDED in a year. Once again I think those of the "older generation" see a different kind of cost then the "younger generation" would. For me to get to a movie I have to: (1) carve out time in my schedule, (2) find a baby sitter with the same schedule, (3) lose X hours driving, parking, standing in line, watching the commercials, etc. (All just to put up with a bunch of noisy people and a messy theater -- I can get that, and never leave the house). These things may not really cost me financially; but as a parent, home owner, employee, and husband, they are a lot more costly then any dollar amount would be.
That is not to say we (to project my thoughts again to my age/social group) do not like going to the movies. I still go about twice a year with my wife. It is a nice date, away from the hustle of home. But we almost always wait 4+ weeks when the movie is about to leave the theaters so we don't have to put up with all the crap.
What I want to see is this same survey done, but broken down by age. I would be willing to bet what I mentioned at the beginning of this whole thing. I also don't think that theaters are going to suddenly disappear, it is still an EVENT. And going out to an event is always nice, no matter what your age/income/family status/relationship status happens to be.
The beauty of this is its simplicity. It is a great way to show PHB's the fact the IE is flawed, and not all the other browsers out there. I would just add that you may want to have a plan for the PHB's arguement over the extra charge.
PHB: What is this $2,000 charge for? Developer (pulling out 2 images of page without IE hacks): here is what your page looks like in IE, and here what it looks like in all other browsers. Developer: (pausing for effect) And this would have only cost you X dollars.
I design webpages as a hobby, as an activity for enjoyment. (I am a High School Math teacher by trade) I have created (what I find) to be some wonderful designs, only to have them F'ed up by I.E. when I try to show them to a friend or colleague. Then spend hours fixing it in IE and trying not to break it in everything else. I have mostly given up on IE.
Not enough to count for anything. But Native American history is a hobby, and I am a Indian Hobbiest (check out www.powwows.com) it is heavy with the java/multimedia/etc but if you can get past that a lot of good info on pow wows and both Native and hobbiest.
Linux is like a teepee. It has no windows, no gates, and there's an Apache inside.
Cute signature, but incorrect. Apache Indians are a member of the "Southwestern Tribes" (A term applied by white scholars, not the tribes themselves), and the Southwestern tribes did not have enough skins to create TeePees (TeePees have a lot of wasted space, as far as construction material are concerned). The Apache lived in homes called WikiUps. They were dome shaped (like an igloo) and usually covered with bark, sicks, mud, and sometimes hides.
It just drives me nuts when people (not nec. parent poster) have this Indian/TeePee connection. The Native American cultures are just like the "Native European" cultures. Yes the are all "white", but you have german, english, russian, etc. Not all "red" indian cultures are the same.
I know that I for one do NOT want this case dismissed. I would like to see it finished out for the future of Linux and the GPL. Let's put all this rubbish to bed. If this thing goes to court and SCO losses, then Linux and the GPL will be that much stronger. Less likely to be attacked down the road.
I would say - Give it a shot. At least on a small scale (ie. one classroom at a time) I am a teacher at a small charter school in Pittsburgh PA. I used a current DELL (shipped with XP) and installed K12LTSP. The dumby terminals and switch was all donations from the local LUG. It cost the school 1 computer (that they already had), and now I have 8 student computers in the class.
Best of all is when a student comes in from the lab (all XPs) and asks to use "my lab" cause they like it better. Some say it runs faster, some say they have less problems, some say they just like it. I really don't care why, it is just great!!
Now I even have a science teacher wanting me to put one in here room.
It all comes down to what the kids and teachers are using the computers for. I'm a teacher at a small charter school. We house about 250-300 students between the middle and high school grades. We have a lab for the middle school and a lab for the high school. Each teacher has a computer in the room. All of the computers in the building are WinXP, including the servers. The majority of the time kids are in the lab they are using either MS Office or the Internet. We have some educational software, but not a lot. That is a lot of tech money wasted in my eyes.
I set up a K12LTSP server in my classroom with a total of 8 terminals. Although the kids spend some time crying about it. (This is an old computer, this isn't MS blah, etc), once they say that it did the same things -- No more crying. If fact many kids have come to use my computer instead using the ones in the lab.
It really just comes down to what you use it for. If the teacher's/students are not using a lot of the special software, why pay all the extra cash. Why not set up 1 lab with Windows/Mac for the software and one with K12LTSP for Internet, Office apps, etc. You just saved yourself 50% of your budget.
Re:Yeah Right...
on
Making Change
·
· Score: 5, Insightful
It's funny (in a VERY sad way) that to him, the cash register was this magic oracle that told him what to do, and that it didn't occur to him that what he was doing was even knowable without its use.
I am a High School math teacher, and I can't agree with this statement enough. Somedays I laugh, somedays I cry, but it is always sad when I see a student need the calculator for the most BASIC of operations (And I am not even counting the OP's example as "basic", that would be "basic+")
I think it all comes from the fact that students are allowed to use calculators at such an earlier point in thier schooling. I am only 29, but I was not allowed to use a calculator in school until somewhere around 11th grade. It really hones (sp?) those basic math skills. I'll step off my soap-box now Sorry;-}
My favorite part of the story is near the bottom. Microsoft senior consultant Alex Balcanquall is quoted as saying "Any government department is quite at liberty to run only Windows 2000 server. There's nothing forcing them to upgrade to Server 2003," Now take that statement along with the statement from MS that they would no longer make updates for Windows NT servers. --Mmmm--
I agree totally. I have an old Okidata 380D that has outlasted 3 of those "fancy" printers. It always works, and does text just fine. Since I don't print pictures, it is all I really need.
I just need to remember to print my work before the babies are asleep.
Personally, I like Blackbox or IceWM with ROX file manager. I run a small K12LTSP in my classroom, and the kids have now problem with the IceWM/ROX filer combo. And these kids are all Win9x/XP users. The school has WinXP on all the computers - except mine {-:
I have an old Okedata 380 that I picked up from my old work before it hit the trash. This is an old ribbon style printer. I had been in use for some 5 years in an office setting, and now I have gotten another 5 years out of it at home. With no sign of of trouble.
In that same time, I have purchased two new printers, a Canon BJC2000 and a HP660c, both of which have died.
I know the Okidata is slow, loud, not color, and only 600 dpi, but I also know that I can count on it to work tomorrow -- A lot more then I can say for the others
The one piece of software that has saved by huge amounts of time is TuffTest. TuffTest will check the hardware for you. Do use trying all the other tools if the HD/Mem/Parallel Port/etc is shot.
I paid for the 10.00 version, and it has proven to be worth 10 times that.
P.S. -- I spend a lot of time repairing old and discarded P.C. -- Hence the need for a way to check the Hardware.
I stand corrected. Wasn't that one of the best shows ever! I don't think anything has come along to rival it. It was so unique. Although I think the 'times' had a lot to do with it.
I really don't think something like that could be produced today
from the show 'Laugh-In'. maybe you are too young to know/remember.
Although, I am to young to have seen the original, I did watch the reruns religiously (sp?)
I could not help but laugh as I read the story. I don't care if it is really true or not, I'm sure we have all felt that way at sometime. (I know I have)
For those of you who 'won't help family' -- Shame on you -- I will ALWAYS help out family. They raised you, cared for you, gave you what you needed/wanted, don't you think that a little time spent expaining "a computer" is a worth return??
As for friends, why not?? I have always felt that knowledge should be shared. Isn't that what the Open Software movement is really about? I am a teacher by trade, and believe me, I am used to repeating myself -- Sometimes it takes a while for someone to learn something 'alien', but in the end it is worth it to help them become a better person.
Slashdot Mirror
this study, and all the replys just reminds me of me of one of favorite movie quotes of all time: "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it."
There are so many ways around this "problem" portableapps dot com for one, password keeper apps (Password Gorilla works on all 3 major OSes), synced bookmarks with Delicious is my current setup - but I have had a few over the years. Now "ties you down to a single browser" or "requires you to have your USB drive with you" I would agree with - but not a single computer.
At least it's a silly step in the right direction! There, fixed it for you.
The previous post is brought to you by another, defective ignorant wanna-be poweruser.
Last I checked, ClamAV IS NOT a "security suite" - is it an Anti Virus scanner. Nothing more.
What evidence to you have that it is defective? This short ClamAV user-base seems to find it to be effective enough to actually write about their success. And many on this list are not little SO-HO / Hobby companies.
My guess, your only experience with ClamAV is on the desktop. Where I would agree it is not the best choice for "Joe Six Pack". Where it shines on the server/gateway. How many servers do you admin? What is your user base on those servers? How much experience do you have with sever side AV?
Please bring facts next time, and keep your trolling to yourself.
I am running it in slow hardware... Pentium 4 3.2ghz 1gig ram and SATA drives.
[SNIP] Yes, I only have a low end Nvidia 6600GT video card with 256 meg of ram, so that might be the problem as well.
Is it just me, or does this sound like a really decent machine. Hell, for me that would out preform any one of the 6 computers I have here in my house.
If it is really that "low end" to you I would be more then happy to take it off your hand.
To bring things back on target, I think the real problem with Vista is illustrated in the posting. It is not the "circusware" or the security issues, although all those are issues also. The big issue is the hardware requirements. An OS needing 256MB ram video card, and 3.2GHz processor.... Is it an OS or a FPS ?
That is why I used the "Print version" button to read the article. Not that I printed it, just got rid of all the crap.
If I had mod points, that alone would earn you some.
That "feature" alone drives me nuts. I use 'Find' all the time in MS Office apps for work, and the UI is horrible. Too big, does not keep default settings (I want excel to search all tabs by default, not just current), options hidden under different buttons (Word says "More" and Excel says "options"), etc. And that is just "find": the hidden menus, the task PAIN, I could go on, but now I am OT and ranting.
I currently do as much spreadsheet work as I can in Gnumeric/OO.o and my word stuff in AbiWord/OO.o when I can since the UI in Office is so messed up (at least for me).
Someone mentioned going to the theater being a social event, and talking to people about a movie "I just saw on DVD" is not as exciting. Well personally, since becoming a member of the "older generation" I find a lot more interesting (and intelligent) things to talk about besides the latest flick.
Many theater defenders used the TOTAL HOME COST > the NUMBER OF MOVIES ATTENDED in a year. Once again I think those of the "older generation" see a different kind of cost then the "younger generation" would. For me to get to a movie I have to: (1) carve out time in my schedule, (2) find a baby sitter with the same schedule, (3) lose X hours driving, parking, standing in line, watching the commercials, etc. (All just to put up with a bunch of noisy people and a messy theater -- I can get that, and never leave the house). These things may not really cost me financially; but as a parent, home owner, employee, and husband, they are a lot more costly then any dollar amount would be.
That is not to say we (to project my thoughts again to my age/social group) do not like going to the movies. I still go about twice a year with my wife. It is a nice date, away from the hustle of home. But we almost always wait 4+ weeks when the movie is about to leave the theaters so we don't have to put up with all the crap.
What I want to see is this same survey done, but broken down by age. I would be willing to bet what I mentioned at the beginning of this whole thing. I also don't think that theaters are going to suddenly disappear, it is still an EVENT. And going out to an event is always nice, no matter what your age/income/family status/relationship status happens to be.
Kudo's to you -- Modd this one Way UP!!!
The beauty of this is its simplicity. It is a great way to show PHB's the fact the IE is flawed, and not all the other browsers out there. I would just add that you may want to have a plan for the PHB's arguement over the extra charge.
PHB: What is this $2,000 charge for?
Developer (pulling out 2 images of page without IE hacks): here is what your page looks like in IE, and here what it looks like in all other browsers.
Developer: (pausing for effect) And this would have only cost you X dollars.
I design webpages as a hobby, as an activity for enjoyment. (I am a High School Math teacher by trade) I have created (what I find) to be some wonderful designs, only to have them F'ed up by I.E. when I try to show them to a friend or colleague. Then spend hours fixing it in IE and trying not to break it in everything else. I have mostly given up on IE.
Not enough to count for anything. But Native American history is a hobby, and I am a Indian Hobbiest (check out www.powwows.com) it is heavy with the java/multimedia/etc but if you can get past that a lot of good info on pow wows and both Native and hobbiest.
Cute signature, but incorrect. Apache Indians are a member of the "Southwestern Tribes" (A term applied by white scholars, not the tribes themselves), and the Southwestern tribes did not have enough skins to create TeePees (TeePees have a lot of wasted space, as far as construction material are concerned). The Apache lived in homes called WikiUps. They were dome shaped (like an igloo) and usually covered with bark, sicks, mud, and sometimes hides.
It just drives me nuts when people (not nec. parent poster) have this Indian/TeePee connection. The Native American cultures are just like the "Native European" cultures. Yes the are all "white", but you have german, english, russian, etc. Not all "red" indian cultures are the same.
Sorry, I'll step off my soap box now :-)
I know that I for one do NOT want this case dismissed. I would like to see it finished out for the future of Linux and the GPL. Let's put all this rubbish to bed. If this thing goes to court and SCO losses, then Linux and the GPL will be that much stronger. Less likely to be attacked down the road.
I would say - Give it a shot. At least on a small scale (ie. one classroom at a time) I am a teacher at a small charter school in Pittsburgh PA. I used a current DELL (shipped with XP) and installed K12LTSP. The dumby terminals and switch was all donations from the local LUG. It cost the school 1 computer (that they already had), and now I have 8 student computers in the class.
Best of all is when a student comes in from the lab (all XPs) and asks to use "my lab" cause they like it better. Some say it runs faster, some say they have less problems, some say they just like it. I really don't care why, it is just great!!
Now I even have a science teacher wanting me to put one in here room.
It all comes down to what the kids and teachers are using the computers for. I'm a teacher at a small charter school. We house about 250-300 students between the middle and high school grades. We have a lab for the middle school and a lab for the high school. Each teacher has a computer in the room. All of the computers in the building are WinXP, including the servers. The majority of the time kids are in the lab they are using either MS Office or the Internet. We have some educational software, but not a lot. That is a lot of tech money wasted in my eyes.
I set up a K12LTSP server in my classroom with a total of 8 terminals. Although the kids spend some time crying about it. (This is an old computer, this isn't MS blah, etc), once they say that it did the same things -- No more crying. If fact many kids have come to use my computer instead using the ones in the lab.
It really just comes down to what you use it for. If the teacher's/students are not using a lot of the special software, why pay all the extra cash. Why not set up 1 lab with Windows/Mac for the software and one with K12LTSP for Internet, Office apps, etc. You just saved yourself 50% of your budget.
P.S. - Linux does have some great ed games and apps (see the Seul/Edu Application Index. They are just a little harder to find then"Mathblaser"
It's funny (in a VERY sad way) that to him, the cash register was this magic oracle that told him what to do, and that it didn't occur to him that what he was doing was even knowable without its use.
I am a High School math teacher, and I can't agree with this statement enough. Somedays I laugh, somedays I cry, but it is always sad when I see a student need the calculator for the most BASIC of operations (And I am not even counting the OP's example as "basic", that would be "basic+")
I think it all comes from the fact that students are allowed to use calculators at such an earlier point in thier schooling. I am only 29, but I was not allowed to use a calculator in school until somewhere around 11th grade. It really hones (sp?) those basic math skills. I'll step off my soap-box now Sorry ;-}
My favorite part of the story is near the bottom. Microsoft senior consultant Alex Balcanquall is quoted as saying "Any government department is quite at liberty to run only Windows 2000 server. There's nothing forcing them to upgrade to Server 2003," Now take that statement along with the statement from MS that they would no longer make updates for Windows NT servers. --Mmmm--
Just too funny for me. I'll stick with my OSS
I agree totally. I have an old Okidata 380D that has outlasted 3 of those "fancy" printers. It always works, and does text just fine. Since I don't print pictures, it is all I really need.
I just need to remember to print my work before the babies are asleep.
Personally, I like Blackbox or IceWM with ROX file manager. I run a small K12LTSP in my classroom, and the kids have now problem with the IceWM/ROX filer combo. And these kids are all Win9x/XP users. The school has WinXP on all the computers - except mine {-:
I have an old Okedata 380 that I picked up from my old work before it hit the trash. This is an old ribbon style printer. I had been in use for some 5 years in an office setting, and now I have gotten another 5 years out of it at home. With no sign of of trouble.
In that same time, I have purchased two new printers, a Canon BJC2000 and a HP660c, both of which have died.
I know the Okidata is slow, loud, not color, and only 600 dpi, but I also know that I can count on it to work tomorrow -- A lot more then I can say for the others
The one piece of software that has saved by huge amounts of time is TuffTest. TuffTest will check the hardware for you. Do use trying all the other tools if the HD/Mem/Parallel Port/etc is shot.
I paid for the 10.00 version, and it has proven to be worth 10 times that.
P.S. -- I spend a lot of time repairing old and discarded P.C. -- Hence the need for a way to check the Hardware.
I stand corrected. Wasn't that one of the best shows ever! I don't think anything has come along to rival it. It was so unique. Although I think the 'times' had a lot to do with it.
I really don't think something like that could be produced today
from the show 'Laugh-In'. maybe you are too young to know/remember. Although, I am to young to have seen the original, I did watch the reruns religiously (sp?)
Slashdotted before it could be slashdotted??? "verrrry innterressting" -said with german lisp
I could not help but laugh as I read the story. I don't care if it is really true or not, I'm sure we have all felt that way at sometime. (I know I have)
For those of you who 'won't help family' -- Shame on you -- I will ALWAYS help out family. They raised you, cared for you, gave you what you needed/wanted, don't you think that a little time spent expaining "a computer" is a worth return??
As for friends, why not?? I have always felt that knowledge should be shared. Isn't that what the Open Software movement is really about? I am a teacher by trade, and believe me, I am used to repeating myself -- Sometimes it takes a while for someone to learn something 'alien', but in the end it is worth it to help them become a better person.
-- Just my 1/50 of $1.00