I've heard the argument that OSS doesn't inovate like MS and IBM closed source projects do. But software like this is the counter argument. With Linux and BSD, on the desktop, it's relatively close to a fresh start. From scratch. You get the idea.
Before, we had to get sound up reliably, window managers etc.. all that chewy good stuff. Windows was ahead of "us" on that since the boom of unix on the desktop didn't happen 'till a little later.
MS can only inovate so fast. Problem is, duplicating what is already out there... good desktop interfaces, some kick ass softare.. all as OSS is "easy".
And btw, inovations are easy once you think how to solve a problem. mp3's and ogg aren't hard problems that required tons of scientists. Just a few good eggs working on something. Same with softupdates for FreeBSD and a lot of junk.
You don't make a huge update as one huge update. Or do you eat your dinner/breakfast/lunch as one big meal, or write essays in one huge paragraph.
You break up the work,implement part, test-test-test, implement another part, regression test, test-test-test.
While the internet is upgrading on the back-end, people on the fore-front will have to be educated. "In N time, you can use IPv4 via our IPv4-IPv6 proxy in the meanwhile, but this will last N time."
Software writers would have to get off their bum and write those IPv6 drivers to fully work as if IPv4 never existed. (Well, not like you can't steal code;P ).
Don't make it out like, we are putting on all of our clothes at once. One step at a time baby. Don't sweat the small stuff.
The backbone only needs 2 machines that talk IPv6 and routes IPv4 over it. Then those 2 machine's can tell their downstreams (or upstreams) you have N-time to swtich and route IPv4 over IPv6.
Eventually, the entire topology will be IPv4 route-capable IPv6 upstreams everywhere. When everyone is able to use IPv6, then the backbone should do the same thing all over again.
Same thing happens with any large change you wish to do fix. You start where it's possible and fan out. Then you phase out any of the old stuff.
It depends on who you are and why you are doing this type of work. I like programming.. solving problems.. and implementing stuff.
I program at home as a hobby. Just got some more source to compile. Hit a milestone. I plan on going to work and programming some more. You mentioned you are 23 (IIRC). I'm a little older and started at an early age.
In all honesty, if you love to program, the only thing that will affect your opinion is where you work. Some people work in small companies. Some work in large. Some in large groups, some in small. Just gotta find where you fit.
There may be a rebirth of sorts. For every process, that is slow, may be sped up by an automated system. Whether it is mechanical or electrical, it can happen. For the electrical solutions to a slowprocess, computers tend to speed it up. As I write, I'm getting more done via computer, just by the fact that I can touch type. I've adapted and can work better.
Do all problems need a computer? No. Hopefully, we will never turn down that road. But, wherever custom solutions are needed, and there is a lot of need for custom ones, programmers are needed. Systems analysistssts, graphic artists and dbas.
Point is, sniffers are the only tool out there to actually see what traffic is out there. Yeah, you can use nmap for finding out what OS is running (sometimes) but that's not security per se either. Its just tcp/ip-to-OS identification.
Sometimes ducks don't just quack. The sometimes fly and lay eggs too.
I have a desk at home and at work with a comptuer at each one. If I use a laptop, it'd be away from my desk. For those times I dont' want to be behind my desk or just be somewhere else.
Now puzzle me this. Cowboys. If it has no screen, and I'm on my couch, or in a meeting with no screen/keyboard... how do I use the thing?
This thing feels more like a firewire, portable HD, without the wire and it serves itself up. Neat trick, has a nich, but not the same as a laptop or PDA.
Java.. would at least stick around. Too many financial companies are investing in it. Too many people in general are. Worse comes to worse, someone "buys" java and continnues it, it gets put into the open or the license changes, where it might get perverted..
Getting rid of java is like getting rid of cobol. It's hard, but it'll take a while:)
Over the past 3 years, lots of companies, good and bad, suffered stock point losses. But just because there's a # fixed to a company says nothign about the company.
There are lies, damn lies, and statistics. Stocks are a statistic representing the value of the company. If we put the head of a steel making company in charge of visa, visa won't lose points. Over time, prolly, just 'cause the steel head (heh) will affect the company's performance in the long rung.. prolly.
But that's not the point. The point is, the interface, not the process behind the interface, needs to be intuitive.
I remember back in the BBS days, it took me an hour or too to realize that...
Continue (Y/n):
Meant Y was the default. Not that Gentoo does or doesn't do it. But it's guilty of the same thing OpenBSD does. The interface is very VERY simple. Just not intuitive.
For the general case, win2k and redhat have intuitive install interfaces. Skip the actual working or not working of some driver or some odd setup. It's the clicking of the buttons and the finishing of the process. You can't very well understand what you are doing if the interface is unusable.
Look at DOS. Dos was a very simple interface except for one facet. It used drive letters. Other than that small hurdle, you were fine. That's the problem gentoo has as well./dev/sda, to someone who doesn't understand taht a / is a file seperator,/dev is where your devices are and sda is where your scsi (I'm not a linu dude, i might be wrong) is a scsi device is a small hurdle as well. But for Gentoo, it's not the only small hurdle. Things like emerge and what to do if a package doesn't compile properly is another. I've had it happen. Just re- emerge.
Linux and *BSD are great under the hood. Quite stable. I'm not a windows user other than at work, and I'm not fond of it. But if your interfaces suck, how can you get anything done?
I agree with you on the whole, but American's aren't doing it. It's the legislature. There's also group think.. and some apathy. Problem with Bush was, it was a close race. I'm not surprised if he did have 50% approval rating at some point.
let Bush steal the election (YEA HE DID!!)..
I voted for Gore. Not because I wanted to, but because Bush would provoke and make matters worse. To be truthful,.. us.. the American people didn't vote him in. Florida's count may have proved who really one. Some say Gore did win, technically, after all was said and done.
But when the Gov't gave up on Florida and just said, ok, Bush wins... I gave up on the US election system. Both Democrat and Republican parties seem to have no direction. Screw this "no new taxes". How about bringing back the country to a point of 3% unemployed, or where things actually.. mattered.
All it is now a days, is a popularity contest. Loser usually goes home while the winner gets to fuck the prom queen.
It's not that it's difficult to apply, just tedious. Assuming redhat, freebsd, windows and mac osx installers installed and setup how you like, the interfaces are a lot simpler than gentoo or debian's.
Yeah, it was strange. Most of us watched tv till noon. THEN we went out and played, or read books. When you are a kid, you have after school and weekends to play. When you grow up, you hardly have it anymore.
Ok, hold on a sec. At the current state of things, many softwares are at one extreme. People have no clue on where it comes from.
Linux is one of the fortunates, 'cause people may easily assume it with Linux. Same with ReiserFS and MAYBE the BSD's. B is for Berkeley, it's good enough for me. Even Netscape Mozilla, Microsoft Windows, Lotus 123.
Today, I used pan. The news reader. Unless I go search, I haven't a clue who wrote pan, nor do I care. I also used Spammassassin.
What is being suggested, is there be some default inbetween. You are right, it belongs to the community if it was given to the community. What he's saying is, default it to have something in there. Let the world know, that Linus did the initial work on Linux, and that me, a small developer, contributed to some software or even wrote my own. And if you don't like the credit showing up every time, take it out! That's the nice thing about OSS. Worse comes to worse, if it is hard to remove, someone will write a patch to make it easy to deal with or people just won't use it.
Slashdot Mirror
I've heard the argument that OSS doesn't inovate like MS and IBM closed source projects do. But software like this is the counter argument. With Linux and BSD, on the desktop, it's relatively close to a fresh start. From scratch. You get the idea.
.. all as OSS is "easy".
Before, we had to get sound up reliably, window managers etc.. all that chewy good stuff. Windows was ahead of "us" on that since the boom of unix on the desktop didn't happen 'till a little later.
MS can only inovate so fast. Problem is, duplicating what is already out there... good desktop interfaces, some kick ass softare
And btw, inovations are easy once you think how to solve a problem. mp3's and ogg aren't hard problems that required tons of scientists. Just a few good eggs working on something. Same with softupdates for FreeBSD and a lot of junk.
Forgive the pun, but you need a non-warez activation key. After billy gave away his, everyone has been false-launching the rocket.
You don't make a huge update as one huge update. Or do you eat your dinner/breakfast/lunch as one big meal, or write essays in one huge paragraph.
;P ).
You break up the work,implement part, test-test-test, implement another part, regression test, test-test-test.
While the internet is upgrading on the back-end, people on the fore-front will have to be educated. "In N time, you can use IPv4 via our IPv4-IPv6 proxy in the meanwhile, but this will last N time."
Software writers would have to get off their bum and write those IPv6 drivers to fully work as if IPv4 never existed. (Well, not like you can't steal code
Don't make it out like, we are putting on all of our clothes at once. One step at a time baby. Don't sweat the small stuff.
And they say BSD was dying. Man. Were the trolls wrong. :)
Not really at all.
The backbone only needs 2 machines that talk IPv6 and routes IPv4 over it. Then those 2 machine's can tell their downstreams (or upstreams) you have N-time to swtich and route IPv4 over IPv6.
Eventually, the entire topology will be IPv4 route-capable IPv6 upstreams everywhere. When everyone is able to use IPv6, then the backbone should do the same thing all over again.
Same thing happens with any large change you wish to do fix. You start where it's possible and fan out. Then you phase out any of the old stuff.
Oh. well.. um..
:)
[ insert long flame here insulting many parts of your anatomy ]
Damnit. I hate being in agreement
It depends on who you are and why you are doing this type of work. I like programming.. solving problems.. and implementing stuff.
I program at home as a hobby. Just got some more source to compile. Hit a milestone. I plan on going to work and programming some more. You mentioned you are 23 (IIRC). I'm a little older and started at an early age.
In all honesty, if you love to program, the only thing that will affect your opinion is where you work. Some people work in small companies. Some work in large. Some in large groups, some in small. Just gotta find where you fit.
-s
There may be a rebirth of sorts. For every process, that is slow, may be sped up by an automated system. Whether it is mechanical or electrical, it can happen. For the electrical solutions to a slowprocess, computers tend to speed it up. As I write, I'm getting more done via computer, just by the fact that I can touch type. I've adapted and can work better.
Do all problems need a computer? No. Hopefully, we will never turn down that road. But, wherever custom solutions are needed, and there is a lot of need for custom ones, programmers are needed. Systems analysistssts, graphic artists and dbas.
Point is, sniffers are the only tool out there to actually see what traffic is out there. Yeah, you can use nmap for finding out what OS is running (sometimes) but that's not security per se either. Its just tcp/ip-to-OS identification.
Sometimes ducks don't just quack. The sometimes fly and lay eggs too.
You'd be surprised. tcpdump/ethereal is great for say, when some jerk is trying to DOS you and you need to know how.
Knowing the how allows you to put in filters. Filters allows you to operate.
I have a desk at home and at work with a comptuer at each one. If I use a laptop, it'd be away from my desk. For those times I dont' want to be behind my desk or just be somewhere else.
Now puzzle me this. Cowboys. If it has no screen, and I'm on my couch, or in a meeting with no screen/keyboard... how do I use the thing?
This thing feels more like a firewire, portable HD, without the wire and it serves itself up. Neat trick, has a nich, but not the same as a laptop or PDA.
Java.. would at least stick around. Too many financial companies are investing in it. Too many people in general are. Worse comes to worse, someone "buys" java and continnues it, it gets put into the open or the license changes, where it might get perverted..
:)
Getting rid of java is like getting rid of cobol. It's hard, but it'll take a while
Over the past 3 years, lots of companies, good and bad, suffered stock point losses. But just because there's a # fixed to a company says nothign about the company.
There are lies, damn lies, and statistics. Stocks are a statistic representing the value of the company. If we put the head of a steel making company in charge of visa, visa won't lose points. Over time, prolly, just 'cause the steel head (heh) will affect the company's performance in the long rung.. prolly.
But that's not the point. The point is, the interface, not the process behind the interface, needs to be intuitive.
/dev/sda, to someone who doesn't understand taht a / is a file seperator, /dev is where your devices are and sda is where your scsi (I'm not a linu dude, i might be wrong) is a scsi device is a small hurdle as well. But for Gentoo, it's not the only small hurdle. Things like emerge and what to do if a package doesn't compile properly is another. I've had it happen. Just re- emerge.
I remember back in the BBS days, it took me an hour or too to realize that...
Continue (Y/n):
Meant Y was the default. Not that Gentoo does or doesn't do it. But it's guilty of the same thing OpenBSD does. The interface is very VERY simple. Just not intuitive.
For the general case, win2k and redhat have intuitive install interfaces. Skip the actual working or not working of some driver or some odd setup. It's the clicking of the buttons and the finishing of the process. You can't very well understand what you are doing if the interface is unusable.
Look at DOS. Dos was a very simple interface except for one facet. It used drive letters. Other than that small hurdle, you were fine. That's the problem gentoo has as well.
Linux and *BSD are great under the hood. Quite stable. I'm not a windows user other than at work, and I'm not fond of it. But if your interfaces suck, how can you get anything done?
I voted for Gore. Not because I wanted to, but because Bush would provoke and make matters worse. To be truthful,
But when the Gov't gave up on Florida and just said, ok, Bush wins... I gave up on the US election system. Both Democrat and Republican parties seem to have no direction. Screw this "no new taxes". How about bringing back the country to a point of 3% unemployed, or where things actually.. mattered.
All it is now a days, is a popularity contest. Loser usually goes home while the winner gets to fuck the prom queen.
It's not that it's difficult to apply, just tedious. Assuming redhat, freebsd, windows and mac osx installers installed and setup how you like, the interfaces are a lot simpler than gentoo or debian's.
Yeah, it was strange. Most of us watched tv till noon. THEN we went out and played, or read books. When you are a kid, you have after school and weekends to play. When you grow up, you hardly have it anymore.
*sigh*
Just made me depress myself.
Ok, hold on a sec. At the current state of things, many softwares are at one extreme. People have no clue on where it comes from.
Linux is one of the fortunates, 'cause people may easily assume it with Linux. Same with ReiserFS and MAYBE the BSD's. B is for Berkeley, it's good enough for me. Even Netscape Mozilla, Microsoft Windows, Lotus 123.
Today, I used pan. The news reader. Unless I go search, I haven't a clue who wrote pan, nor do I care. I also used Spammassassin.
What is being suggested, is there be some default inbetween. You are right, it belongs to the community if it was given to the community. What he's saying is, default it to have something in there. Let the world know, that Linus did the initial work on Linux, and that me, a small developer, contributed to some software or even wrote my own. And if you don't like the credit showing up every time, take it out! That's the nice thing about OSS. Worse comes to worse, if it is hard to remove, someone will write a patch to make it easy to deal with or people just won't use it.
I thought it was a french "FreeNet". Wait.. that's librenet.. n'ermind.
The only truely quiet pc, is one that is off. [/zen]
Lipids disolve lipids. I like my first post though :)
Lipids disolve lips.. for the most part. Same with non-lipids. :)
I'm not a ChemE, but a good friend is. Lighterfluid gets off various glues too.
That's ok. Look at the internet on a whole. It was once small, and it grew rapidly. Quakenet will be just as grand. [/sarcasm]
Don't forget,
:)
O'Reilly - O'Rielly Catalogue
And in darkness, bind them
Perhaps the point will be 20 fold when it gets really REALLY popular. Or expect thousands and billions of quakenets.
Note, XBox, PS2... all the consoles are really getting hot in the online arena.