Nintendo lead everyone to believe it was from a coming Zelda sequel, whether they stated exactly so or not. I don't exactly remember, but not one article I ever read (and no videos of the conference I have seen, either) featured Nintendo saying, "This is just a tech demo." It would have been freaking stupid for them to do so anyways, as it was obvious from viewer response that that game would have sold systems like almost nothing else. Apparently they finally got the message that very few people equate "being a hero on an epic quest" with "being a chubby six-year old".
The Gamecube was sold for a loss initially, as Nintendo (via Peter Main) themselves admitted. Don't have the time/energy to find an exact transcript, but a couple of places you can see references to it are here, and here. The highly regarded (and massively overrated) "Acts of Gord" website also references it, as do many other places. For some reason the GC got an early reputation for not selling at a loss, even though Nintendo said otherwise. This myth is slowly dying out, at least.
Most PS2s were of course rush-shipped by (massively expensive) air transport to make the US launch, so there is no way they were sold at a profit initially.
You very well could be right about the PSX, though I still suspect a slight loss in the beginning. I am perfectly willing to concede that, however.
Never argued the N64 was sold at a loss, so I won't defend that statement now, either.:P
I certainly wouldn't argue that selling at an initial loss is the "typical console business model", but it has been used by every major manufacturer (short of perhaps Atari). Especially if you expanded the idea to include selling for a loss at any point in the console's life, which seems fair to me. It is perfectly true to say that most recent consoles are sold using the razorblade model at one time or another, even if via a 'forced' early price-drop.
Glad to see you admit the Saturn was sold at a loss now, though.:D
Wrong. At least PS2, GC, Saturn, and PSX all sold at an initial loss as well. Some of these were very brief (supposedly for the GC it was just the first few months), but overall it is far more common than the urban legend you are restating.
Though last I heard that was another title that may never see the light of day...At least not any time soon.
Yeah, that announced January 2005 release date would certainly lead any informed person to assume it was cancelled...
Kameo on GC was far from done as well. Where do you get all this nonsense?
(And just so you know, Nintendo gave Rare quite a few problems with Conker. Things were cut and/or not allowed by the Big N. Will be nice to see the 'real' version next year.)
Did Sony ever make a big controller for those of us w/ big hands?
No, unfortunately. Most American third-party controllers seem larger, however, probably because the Sony controllers are so freaking tiny. Even various petite women I know can't stand the official ones...
FYI several tactical 'RPGs' use polygons - the Front Mission series being the most famous example (every tactical version after the first has been 3D), but certainly not the only one.
Because the three games listed only present three, maybe even two genres. Most gamers do not live on platformers and side-scrolling action games alone... Where are the best sports games (very important in the US and Europe)? The best RPGs? The best fighting games? Best 3D action games? Best arcade racing games? Best realistic racing games? Best FPS games? Best strategy games? Best online games? Etc. Many gamers don't care for all genres (don't like console RPGs or realistic sports games myself, for example), but they still want a far larger variety than anything Nintendo is offering.
I find it very hard to believe you only ever watch ten different movies - most film goers want far more variety in their lives, and the same is true with the vast majority of gamers.
If tomorrow I decide to set up shop and make PS2 games and market them, sony's lawyers are going to kick me so hard my shop will end up in another dimension.
Umm, not if you get a license from Sony. Regardless, so would Nintendo or MS - what does this have to do with anything?
Ummm, no, most of them are actually not launch titles, unless you have a very bizarre definition of "launch".
Halo is the only technical launch game, though PGR1 and Amped 1 were also launch games. But I was talking more about the (easily superior) sequels. Discrediting them as launch titles would be like saying the Super Mario Brothers series was a launch NES title...
If what you are saying is true, then as they are struggling with Xbox at the moment (and not holding the monopoly), surely there should be lots of great games.
Project Gotham Series Amped Series Crimson Skies Mechassault Top Spin Links Halo Grabbed by the Ghoulies (I liked it - so did Famitsu, which gave it a 31!)
Seems like a pretty good list to me. Many of them are absolutely huge sellers, too.
Actually, Japan is the third biggest videogame market, not second. It has really been shrinking the past few years. Maybe you can't really ignore it now, but there is plenty of evidence that you can safely do that for the next console generation. The Japanese just aren't buying many games anymore, period.
Yeah, and the GBA has more crap put out for it then what crashed the Atari-dominated games market in the 80s. Even the good games (and there aren't that many) are all just sequels, remakes, or licensed.
It really is just under their radar in America (which is where this kind of thing matters to people). When a couple of episodes were shown on Cartoon Network, the religious iconography was completely removed, AFAIK. I would be curious to know how people have responded to it being broadcast in countries like Australia, and whether it was censored for religious reasons as well.
(I believe Evangelion was shown uncut on public television in San Francisco or LA, but those aren't the kinds of places that complain about that stuff.:D )
It will be interesting to see if the eventual live-action version features the same kind of imagery. The cross-shaped explosions, etc. all lent Eva a certain charm that would be really missed if they play it safe. Even just having the invaders called Angels and be minions of an, err, enemy called Adam could piss off some people.
With all due respect, when a president asks America to go to war for some reason, that reason better turn out to be true. I certainly would have supported an invasion of Iraq on the honest grounds of disposing of Saddam (if nothing else, to end the cruel embargo). People are mad because Bush lied to America to get what he wanted. People are dying for it. That's reality, and him and his defenders need to accept that.
Plenty of people knew/suspected that Iraq had no WMD, like our good allies, Israel. This is ignoring that our own CIA had serious doubts about WMD claims. And it ignores that we had inspectors on the ground looking for these weapons - war wasn't needed for a more effective inspection.
Iraq did support terrorism (paying the families of Suicide Bombers $250,000.00 as a reward, openly and overtly) and the ties to Bin Laden, while not fully 100% provable are highly likely - few debate this.
That payment was not towards anti-American terrorism, which is the important thing in this topic. And you are completely opposite on reality with the Bin Laden - Saddam linking. The vast majority of experts suspected otherwise, and still do. Not even a strong suggestion of evidence has turned up since the war.
Those of us that served before 9/11 in Operation Southern/Northern Watch, are sick and tired of people who fail to look at the whole picture because it wasn't spoonfed to you by CNN - STFU or admit that it was fine and dandy with you for us to allow the Iraqis to attempt to kill me, my friends, and my coworkers, but it's not ok for my friends and my coworkers to defend themselves now.
Let's be honest here - did the Iraqis come over to you on non-Iraqi soil and attack? Of course we aren't happy about Iraq trying to kill our soldiers, but you speak as if it was some act of unprovoked military aggression that should naturally lead to a US invasion.
You mean the games about street gangs on rollerblades, each one based on a ridiculous* theme like sharks, love droids, and 3-year-out-of-date raver culture stereotypes, sticking it to the man via rail grinds, graffiti and pirate radio?
The one that ends (depending on the game in the series) in either a skyscraper rooftop battle on a giant spinning record against an evil dj booth, or a battle with a three story disco mind-control robot?
Is Kevin Parker seriously trying to say that game has an overtly political message? This just goes to show; some people have a vivid imagination, but little common sense.
Yeah, because there has certainly never been art with a sci-fi, fantasy, or just plain surreal/stylized bent portraying any political viewpoint whatsoever.
Please. How can you suggest the Jet Set Radio games don't "overtly" contain political messages, seeing as how they (especially the original) go right out and state various political messages? Freedom of speech is celebrated, obviously, but also the idea that public areas (including the airwaves) should contain art by the public, and not just corporate advertising. Most of the music uses heavy amounts of sampling, which is a political statement in its own right. Hell, just the point about 'greed will destroy you' with the endboss (the head of a major corporation you have been fighting against, basically driven insane by his own lust for power) certainly has a political viewpoint to it.
You are certainly welcome to disagree with, belittle, or trivialize the political viewpoints of games like Jet Set Radio, but to suggest they don't have any is just idiocy. JSR opens with a written message that says "Graffiti is art." Welcome to the world of political messages, buddy.
And at least play them (especially the superior original) before you try and describe their merits to people, jeez. Sharks? Love-droids? Huh?
Tecmo/Team Ninja has been Xbox exclusive, but I think it's obvious that someone has a lot of extra money in their pockets for that deal
I think the money from the millions of games they have sold on Xbox was probably enough. It can be pretty nice to be the only competant fighting game developer on a specific console. DOA3 (on Xbox) outsold Tekken4 (on PS2) and VF4 (non-Evo, also on PS2).
Japanese television can be pretty crazy (most Americans would find much of it pretty overwhelming), but it is very possible at the least they use less 'movement craziness'.
That is interesting - bear with me for a moment. I am an American male (Polish/Swedish/German heritage) in my mid-twenties and have also played games all my life. Games like Wolf3D, Doom, Unreal Tournament, etc. used to not make me ill or anything when I was younger (even a few years ago), but they certainly do now. I can handle some slower-paced FPS games like Enemy Territory, but most of them make me pretty ill (as do third-person 'fast spinning camera' games like Hitman: Contracts).
But what the interesting thing is is that in this time period when FPS games started becoming unplayable, I have also grown to be somewhat lactose-intolerant (I stopped drinking milk five or so years ago, which seemed to let my lactose resistence wear down - though I still eat cheese, etc.). I can't exactly see how they could be related, but the coincidence is intriguing.
Why? I refuse to do business with a blatantly criminal, "Daddy Warbucks", development-house buying company. They have a warchest of billion$, other people can feed the monopoly monster.
I hate to break it to you, but that pretty much exactly describes all three current console manufacturers. The best you can argue is perhaps you chose a slightly less evil company, but that all seems pretty relative to me. You want a game console nowadays, you have to deal with a pretty unethical corporation directly.
Sega did not allow Treasure to release Radiant Silvergun on Saturn in the US, yes (honestly, not much of anything was being released on the domestically dying Saturn at that point), but Treasure then went to Sony of America, who also rejected it.
And are you honestly suggesting long-running series like DOA, (to a lesser extent) Panzer Dragoon, or Capcom 2D fighting games don't have tons of fans? The characters alone of the fighting games especially are tremendously popular among the fanboy type.
Slashdot Mirror
Nintendo lead everyone to believe it was from a coming Zelda sequel, whether they stated exactly so or not. I don't exactly remember, but not one article I ever read (and no videos of the conference I have seen, either) featured Nintendo saying, "This is just a tech demo." It would have been freaking stupid for them to do so anyways, as it was obvious from viewer response that that game would have sold systems like almost nothing else. Apparently they finally got the message that very few people equate "being a hero on an epic quest" with "being a chubby six-year old".
The Gamecube was sold for a loss initially, as Nintendo (via Peter Main) themselves admitted. Don't have the time/energy to find an exact transcript, but a couple of places you can see references to it are here, and here. The highly regarded (and massively overrated) "Acts of Gord" website also references it, as do many other places. For some reason the GC got an early reputation for not selling at a loss, even though Nintendo said otherwise. This myth is slowly dying out, at least.
:P
:D
Most PS2s were of course rush-shipped by (massively expensive) air transport to make the US launch, so there is no way they were sold at a profit initially.
You very well could be right about the PSX, though I still suspect a slight loss in the beginning. I am perfectly willing to concede that, however.
Never argued the N64 was sold at a loss, so I won't defend that statement now, either.
I certainly wouldn't argue that selling at an initial loss is the "typical console business model", but it has been used by every major manufacturer (short of perhaps Atari). Especially if you expanded the idea to include selling for a loss at any point in the console's life, which seems fair to me. It is perfectly true to say that most recent consoles are sold using the razorblade model at one time or another, even if via a 'forced' early price-drop.
Glad to see you admit the Saturn was sold at a loss now, though.
You mean the teaser for SSB: Melee?
Uhhh, no, he doesn't mean that. He is talking about the video the whole world saw, presented as the next Zelda game.
Doesn't the DS have a built-in mic? That is what all the E3 articles I looked at said...
Wrong. At least PS2, GC, Saturn, and PSX all sold at an initial loss as well. Some of these were very brief (supposedly for the GC it was just the first few months), but overall it is far more common than the urban legend you are restating.
Everyone involved with the N64 left the company
Bull. Shouldn't Snopes have a page for this Nintendo fanboy urban legend by now?
Though last I heard that was another title that may never see the light of day...At least not any time soon.
Yeah, that announced January 2005 release date would certainly lead any informed person to assume it was cancelled...
Kameo on GC was far from done as well. Where do you get all this nonsense?
(And just so you know, Nintendo gave Rare quite a few problems with Conker. Things were cut and/or not allowed by the Big N. Will be nice to see the 'real' version next year.)
Prince of Persia sold very well, actually. IGN reports 2.4 million copies were sold - that is a smash hit by almost any measurement.
IMO BG&E is massively overrated, but I admit it would have been nice to see a sequel.
Did Sony ever make a big controller for those of us w/ big hands?
No, unfortunately. Most American third-party controllers seem larger, however, probably because the Sony controllers are so freaking tiny. Even various petite women I know can't stand the official ones...
FYI several tactical 'RPGs' use polygons - the Front Mission series being the most famous example (every tactical version after the first has been 3D), but certainly not the only one.
Why would you need 10 games if they're the best?
Because the three games listed only present three, maybe even two genres. Most gamers do not live on platformers and side-scrolling action games alone... Where are the best sports games (very important in the US and Europe)? The best RPGs? The best fighting games? Best 3D action games? Best arcade racing games? Best realistic racing games? Best FPS games? Best strategy games? Best online games? Etc. Many gamers don't care for all genres (don't like console RPGs or realistic sports games myself, for example), but they still want a far larger variety than anything Nintendo is offering.
I find it very hard to believe you only ever watch ten different movies - most film goers want far more variety in their lives, and the same is true with the vast majority of gamers.
If tomorrow I decide to set up shop and make PS2 games and market them, sony's lawyers are going to kick me so hard my shop will end up in another dimension.
Umm, not if you get a license from Sony. Regardless, so would Nintendo or MS - what does this have to do with anything?
Ummm, no, most of them are actually not launch titles, unless you have a very bizarre definition of "launch".
Halo is the only technical launch game, though PGR1 and Amped 1 were also launch games. But I was talking more about the (easily superior) sequels. Discrediting them as launch titles would be like saying the Super Mario Brothers series was a launch NES title...
It is the Two Towers Extended Edition, actually. Very nice feature on Massive in it.
If what you are saying is true, then as they are struggling with Xbox at the moment (and not holding the monopoly), surely there should be lots of great games.
Project Gotham Series
Amped Series
Crimson Skies
Mechassault
Top Spin
Links
Halo
Grabbed by the Ghoulies (I liked it - so did Famitsu, which gave it a 31!)
Seems like a pretty good list to me. Many of them are absolutely huge sellers, too.
Actually, Japan is the third biggest videogame market, not second. It has really been shrinking the past few years. Maybe you can't really ignore it now, but there is plenty of evidence that you can safely do that for the next console generation. The Japanese just aren't buying many games anymore, period.
Yeah, and the GBA has more crap put out for it then what crashed the Atari-dominated games market in the 80s. Even the good games (and there aren't that many) are all just sequels, remakes, or licensed.
It really is just under their radar in America (which is where this kind of thing matters to people). When a couple of episodes were shown on Cartoon Network, the religious iconography was completely removed, AFAIK. I would be curious to know how people have responded to it being broadcast in countries like Australia, and whether it was censored for religious reasons as well.
:D )
(I believe Evangelion was shown uncut on public television in San Francisco or LA, but those aren't the kinds of places that complain about that stuff.
It will be interesting to see if the eventual live-action version features the same kind of imagery. The cross-shaped explosions, etc. all lent Eva a certain charm that would be really missed if they play it safe. Even just having the invaders called Angels and be minions of an, err, enemy called Adam could piss off some people.
With all due respect, when a president asks America to go to war for some reason, that reason better turn out to be true. I certainly would have supported an invasion of Iraq on the honest grounds of disposing of Saddam (if nothing else, to end the cruel embargo). People are mad because Bush lied to America to get what he wanted. People are dying for it. That's reality, and him and his defenders need to accept that.
Plenty of people knew/suspected that Iraq had no WMD, like our good allies, Israel. This is ignoring that our own CIA had serious doubts about WMD claims. And it ignores that we had inspectors on the ground looking for these weapons - war wasn't needed for a more effective inspection.
Iraq did support terrorism (paying the families of Suicide Bombers $250,000.00 as a reward, openly and overtly) and the ties to Bin Laden, while not fully 100% provable are highly likely - few debate this.
That payment was not towards anti-American terrorism, which is the important thing in this topic. And you are completely opposite on reality with the Bin Laden - Saddam linking. The vast majority of experts suspected otherwise, and still do. Not even a strong suggestion of evidence has turned up since the war.
Those of us that served before 9/11 in Operation Southern/Northern Watch, are sick and tired of people who fail to look at the whole picture because it wasn't spoonfed to you by CNN - STFU or admit that it was fine and dandy with you for us to allow the Iraqis to attempt to kill me, my friends, and my coworkers, but it's not ok for my friends and my coworkers to defend themselves now.
Let's be honest here - did the Iraqis come over to you on non-Iraqi soil and attack? Of course we aren't happy about Iraq trying to kill our soldiers, but you speak as if it was some act of unprovoked military aggression that should naturally lead to a US invasion.
Yeah, because there has certainly never been art with a sci-fi, fantasy, or just plain surreal/stylized bent portraying any political viewpoint whatsoever.
Please. How can you suggest the Jet Set Radio games don't "overtly" contain political messages, seeing as how they (especially the original) go right out and state various political messages? Freedom of speech is celebrated, obviously, but also the idea that public areas (including the airwaves) should contain art by the public, and not just corporate advertising. Most of the music uses heavy amounts of sampling, which is a political statement in its own right. Hell, just the point about 'greed will destroy you' with the endboss (the head of a major corporation you have been fighting against, basically driven insane by his own lust for power) certainly has a political viewpoint to it.
You are certainly welcome to disagree with, belittle, or trivialize the political viewpoints of games like Jet Set Radio, but to suggest they don't have any is just idiocy. JSR opens with a written message that says "Graffiti is art." Welcome to the world of political messages, buddy.
And at least play them (especially the superior original) before you try and describe their merits to people, jeez. Sharks? Love-droids? Huh?
Tecmo/Team Ninja has been Xbox exclusive, but I think it's obvious that someone has a lot of extra money in their pockets for that deal
I think the money from the millions of games they have sold on Xbox was probably enough. It can be pretty nice to be the only competant fighting game developer on a specific console. DOA3 (on Xbox) outsold Tekken4 (on PS2) and VF4 (non-Evo, also on PS2).
Japanese television can be pretty crazy (most Americans would find much of it pretty overwhelming), but it is very possible at the least they use less 'movement craziness'.
That is interesting - bear with me for a moment. I am an American male (Polish/Swedish/German heritage) in my mid-twenties and have also played games all my life. Games like Wolf3D, Doom, Unreal Tournament, etc. used to not make me ill or anything when I was younger (even a few years ago), but they certainly do now. I can handle some slower-paced FPS games like Enemy Territory, but most of them make me pretty ill (as do third-person 'fast spinning camera' games like Hitman: Contracts).
But what the interesting thing is is that in this time period when FPS games started becoming unplayable, I have also grown to be somewhat lactose-intolerant (I stopped drinking milk five or so years ago, which seemed to let my lactose resistence wear down - though I still eat cheese, etc.). I can't exactly see how they could be related, but the coincidence is intriguing.
Ummm, Matrix and Lord of the Rings are huge in Japan, actually (and Star Wars too, for the record). What are you talking about?
Why? I refuse to do business with a blatantly criminal, "Daddy Warbucks", development-house buying company.
They have a warchest of billion$, other people can feed the monopoly monster.
I hate to break it to you, but that pretty much exactly describes all three current console manufacturers. The best you can argue is perhaps you chose a slightly less evil company, but that all seems pretty relative to me. You want a game console nowadays, you have to deal with a pretty unethical corporation directly.
Sega did not allow Treasure to release Radiant Silvergun on Saturn in the US, yes (honestly, not much of anything was being released on the domestically dying Saturn at that point), but Treasure then went to Sony of America, who also rejected it.
And are you honestly suggesting long-running series like DOA, (to a lesser extent) Panzer Dragoon, or Capcom 2D fighting games don't have tons of fans? The characters alone of the fighting games especially are tremendously popular among the fanboy type.