"the economy changes. protecting the jobs of steamboat captains or horseshoe blacksmith doesn't mean much when people start using trains and cars."
Except that that is not what is happening. The jobs being outsourced are, currently, perfectly viable jobs.
"rather than complain about a job leaving the usa, why not train for a job that can't be outsourced? that makes more money?"
Window washer? "Do you want fries with that"? Those would be hard to outsource, but sure dont pay more than what I am doing ( programmer ). C level executive? Only so many of those to go around.
You have all the Pollyanna rhetoric down pat. Rather a bit harder to do, than to say.
"Maybe you're upset that certain laborers can out-compete local labor;"
Are they out competing, or is their cost structure extremely different? Housing prices, gas, food, etc, etc, etc are are more expensive here than 'there', generally ( and who's fault is that? ). So, how can labor compete on cost on this basis?
"normally I thought the left was all into helping other people,"
Ideally, yes, but as with anything, idiots abound.
"but then I realized if 1) someone local is losing out 2) it's being helped through getting a job then it's no good."
Eh? If someone local loses a job, then that local economy takes a small hit. Enough of that, and the effects can become large.
"Outsourcing isn't evil, not unless you have a populistic"
It may or may not be evil, but it's effects can be negative for the people that these corporations are trying to sell to ( the American public, among others ).
""us vs. them" mentality; break free of those notions and realize it doesn't matter who gets a job,"
It matters to people who have lost a job, but still have bills to pay, families to feed, etc, etc.
"you're neither owed a job nor does one owe you a job."
And niether is the Indian or Chinese person.
"That Indian guy getting a job or that Chinese guy getting a job probably, y'know, needs the money"
Who has said otherwise? How about if an Indian or Chinese company give them a job? With wages in line with local costs of living.
"--but of course, since it's a job, I'm sure you'll label it "exploitation""
Not necessarily. If it looks like exploitation, expect it to be called such. If not, then not.
"and wave it away with some sort of communist gobbledegook about the "bourgeoisie"."
Has someone done that?
"Outsourcing is virtually no different from exporting a product. If that troubles you you can always just enjoy fresh produce and the beautiful ty-die t-shirts made at your local commune instead and not buy imported crap."
Except that
A: the local commune probably could not compete with the mega store and went out of business and
B: the person that lost their job due to outsourcing probably doesnt have much to spend.
"For the left to be so quick to talk about "Othering" people,"
Why is it about "othering" people? Could it not be about politicians answering the needs and wants of their constituents?
"it seems to be the modus operandi when it's outsourcing. Anything to make business look bad, though, right?"
Business doesn't usually need help looking bad. But why do you assume that that is what it is about? Can no one critique something? Can you speak against it without raising the unneeded specter of communism? If the communist analysis is wrong, simple logic should do.
"Americans are not fans of the free market, at least, not really, and are becoming less so, as nobody wants to be accountable for shopping at places which may become "monopolies" like Microsoft. "
May become? Working hard to stay. Anyway.
"For every Microsoft, Walmart, or Starbucks there are many, many customers buying their products and supporting any possible shady activity they do."
True, ignorance and apathy seem to be the human condition.
"The left simply wants to control people, they want them to "behave" according to their ideas of what "behaving" is, to push an agenda of economic egalitarianism because of the "power disparity" or whatever terms they'll use because they've taken the idea of "equality" to an extreme where everyone is equally in chains."
What is "the left"? Politicians? There are probably many that fit your analysis if that is the defintion of "the left". Ordinary people? Then no. Ordinary people and the politicians they ele
Most programmers are not near the minimum wage, yet that function still gets outsourced. Minimum wage was not propping up wages for programmers, so how can you claim it had any affect?
The reason for outsourcing is that short term focuses business "managers" see a way to increase their short term profit, never mind the middle or long term effects on the company or the economy they participate in.
So, only defend the essential rights of those "who deserve it".
That is good, except how to tell "who deserves it"?
It will end up as "defend the essential rights of arbitrarily chosen groups", which will include some who don't really deserve essential rights, while excluding some who do. It will be a popularity contest, and therefore, pretty meaningless.
And protecting those essential rights does not mean "let them go scott free, regardless", but to try them by rule of law, in the best way we know how.
OK. But wont a person in such a situation have a hard time seeing the options? Not eyesight, but I cant help but imagine a person who needs one of those options but being in a wheelchair. Are the voting machines low enough or adjustable?
If you have a disability that would make marking a piece of paper with a marker correctly an impossibility, how will electronic voting make it possible for you to vote unassisted?
"Some home school kids have done well even in poor homes."
And I suspect that some kids in private school with lots of parental attention have done poorly. Comparing the average to outliers in this way is probably not useful here.
I suspect that it is not purely IQ, but more motivation, both with the child and with the parents.
"Neighborhood organized home schools could stomp the dogshit out of public education system if it was well organized by the brightest ppl in the community"
That may well be ( or might not be, it might fall prey to the same bureaucratic silliness public schools do, with time ). But that is apples to oranges comparisons. I am for it, if it works, but where are you going to find the people to make this scale?
I have worked with a number of H1B's, all good people, good workers, but not one of them ( to be blunt ) were as good as I am as a coder. They were not awful or anything like that, but no Einsteins in the lot.
I think the hit we would take is that wages for developers would go up. People would be drawn ( again ) to the career to participate in that, the number of non-H1B workers would rise.
"Back then, it was a country of hardship. Going to the US meant you had to fight for your survival."
It may have been hardship compared to today, but it was opportunity ( read: less hardship ) for those emigrating compared to where they were coming from.
It couldn't be because ( on average ) the people wealthy enough to send their kids to private and parochial schools have more time to spend with their kids, and reinforce what the school is trying to do? ( I.E. more leisure time, more likely to have one parent not working )
And related to that, parents that understand how much their educated led to their wealth, providing additional motivation to push/pull the kids in education?
Smaller class sizes in private schools?
More ability to apply technical assistance to leverage the instructors/instruction?
And if we go with all private schools, I cant help but think that the already large gap between the wealthy and the not wealthy will grow larger, I would argue to the detriment of both groups ( if the "have-nots" have less, where is the market that the "haves" will sell to? )
Slashdot Mirror
So, all we need to do it convince them that killing themselves would be profitable.....
It is not as bad as all that.
We can use recycled paper, before it gets recycled.
Sung to the tune "Little Red Corvette"?
I first read it as 'Please pay for his speedy recovery'.
"the economy changes. protecting the jobs of steamboat captains or horseshoe blacksmith doesn't mean much when people start using trains and cars."
Except that that is not what is happening. The jobs being outsourced are, currently, perfectly viable jobs.
"rather than complain about a job leaving the usa, why not train for a job that can't be outsourced? that makes more money?"
Window washer? "Do you want fries with that"? Those would be hard to outsource, but sure dont pay more than what I am doing ( programmer ). C level executive? Only so many of those to go around.
You have all the Pollyanna rhetoric down pat. Rather a bit harder to do, than to say.
"they sell products he has to give them money for in his local area that they should only hire people in his area, which makes no sense"
It makes no sense to be expecting to sell products in a market where few have jobs, because they have been outsourced.
"Maybe you're upset that certain laborers can out-compete local labor;"
Are they out competing, or is their cost structure extremely different? Housing prices, gas, food, etc, etc, etc are are more expensive here than 'there', generally ( and who's fault is that? ). So, how can labor compete on cost on this basis?
"normally I thought the left was all into helping other people,"
Ideally, yes, but as with anything, idiots abound.
"but then I realized if 1) someone local is losing out 2) it's being helped through getting a job then it's no good."
Eh? If someone local loses a job, then that local economy takes a small hit. Enough of that, and the effects can become large.
"Outsourcing isn't evil, not unless you have a populistic"
It may or may not be evil, but it's effects can be negative for the people that these corporations are trying to sell to ( the American public, among others ).
""us vs. them" mentality; break free of those notions and realize it doesn't matter who gets a job,"
It matters to people who have lost a job, but still have bills to pay, families to feed, etc, etc.
"you're neither owed a job nor does one owe you a job."
And niether is the Indian or Chinese person.
"That Indian guy getting a job or that Chinese guy getting a job probably, y'know, needs the money"
Who has said otherwise? How about if an Indian or Chinese company give them a job? With wages in line with local costs of living.
"--but of course, since it's a job, I'm sure you'll label it "exploitation""
Not necessarily. If it looks like exploitation, expect it to be called such. If not, then not.
"and wave it away with some sort of communist gobbledegook about the "bourgeoisie"."
Has someone done that?
"Outsourcing is virtually no different from exporting a product. If that troubles you you can always just enjoy fresh produce and the beautiful ty-die t-shirts made at your local commune instead and not buy imported crap."
Except that
A: the local commune probably could not compete with the mega store and went out of business and
B: the person that lost their job due to outsourcing probably doesnt have much to spend.
"For the left to be so quick to talk about "Othering" people,"
Why is it about "othering" people? Could it not be about politicians answering the needs and wants of their constituents?
"it seems to be the modus operandi when it's outsourcing. Anything to make business look bad, though, right?"
Business doesn't usually need help looking bad. But why do you assume that that is what it is about? Can no one critique something? Can you speak against it without raising the unneeded specter of communism? If the communist analysis is wrong, simple logic should do.
"Americans are not fans of the free market, at least, not really, and are becoming less so, as nobody wants to be accountable for shopping at places which may become "monopolies" like Microsoft. "
May become? Working hard to stay. Anyway.
"For every Microsoft, Walmart, or Starbucks there are many, many customers buying their products and supporting any possible shady activity they do."
True, ignorance and apathy seem to be the human condition.
"The left simply wants to control people, they want them to "behave" according to their ideas of what "behaving" is, to push an agenda of economic egalitarianism because of the "power disparity" or whatever terms they'll use because they've taken the idea of "equality" to an extreme where everyone is equally in chains."
What is "the left"? Politicians? There are probably many that fit your analysis if that is the defintion of "the left". Ordinary people? Then no. Ordinary people and the politicians they ele
Most programmers are not near the minimum wage, yet that function still gets outsourced. Minimum wage was not propping up wages for programmers, so how can you claim it had any affect?
The reason for outsourcing is that short term focuses business "managers" see a way to increase their short term profit, never mind the middle or long term effects on the company or the economy they participate in.
Kent State.
In this case:
Nudes for Nerds. Stuff that matters.
So, only defend the essential rights of those "who deserve it".
That is good, except how to tell "who deserves it"?
It will end up as "defend the essential rights of arbitrarily chosen groups", which will include some who don't really deserve essential rights, while excluding some who do. It will be a popularity contest, and therefore, pretty meaningless.
And protecting those essential rights does not mean "let them go scott free, regardless", but to try them by rule of law, in the best way we know how.
Then store owners can stop collecting sales tax, that is clearly an issue for the state.
By that logic, perhaps Ebay should allow listing having to do with selling kidneys? F-18's? Sexual favors? Offing spouses?
There is a demand for all these things.
OK. But wont a person in such a situation have a hard time seeing the options? Not eyesight, but I cant help but imagine a person who needs one of those options but being in a wheelchair. Are the voting machines low enough or adjustable?
If you have a disability that would make marking a piece of paper with a marker correctly an impossibility, how will electronic voting make it possible for you to vote unassisted?
"Actually, I just mean that there is no free thinking here, just stupid cliched memes."
Like this one?
"Some home school kids have done well even in poor homes."
And I suspect that some kids in private school with lots of parental attention have done poorly. Comparing the average to outliers in this way is probably not useful here.
I suspect that it is not purely IQ, but more motivation, both with the child and with the parents.
"Neighborhood organized home schools could stomp the dogshit
out of public education system if it was well organized by
the brightest ppl in the community"
That may well be ( or might not be, it might fall prey to the same bureaucratic silliness public schools do, with time ). But that is apples to oranges comparisons. I am for it, if it works, but where are you going to find the people to make this scale?
"that we are somehow losing the next Einstein."
I have worked with a number of H1B's, all good people, good workers, but not one of them ( to be blunt ) were as good as I am as a coder. They were not awful or anything like that, but no Einsteins in the lot.
I think the hit we would take is that wages for developers would go up. People would be drawn ( again ) to the career to participate in that, the number of non-H1B workers would rise.
It is all about wages, keeping them down.
"Back then, it was a country of hardship. Going to the US meant you had to fight for your survival."
It may have been hardship compared to today, but it was opportunity ( read: less hardship ) for those emigrating compared to where they were coming from.
"Care to tell me again why I should want to work in the US?"
Come on, tell the truth. You miss the boot on the face. The hobnails. The twisting, blood-squirting fun of it all!
It couldn't be because ( on average ) the people wealthy enough to send their kids to private and parochial schools have more time to spend with their kids, and reinforce what the school is trying to do?
( I.E. more leisure time, more likely to have one parent not working )
And related to that, parents that understand how much their educated led to their wealth, providing additional motivation to push/pull the kids in education?
Smaller class sizes in private schools?
More ability to apply technical assistance to leverage the instructors/instruction?
And if we go with all private schools, I cant help but think that the already large gap between the wealthy and the not wealthy will grow larger, I would argue to the detriment of both groups ( if the "have-nots" have less, where is the market that the "haves" will sell to? )
And one of them has something identifying him as "John Carter".
Electric motors?
"Werner von Braun (NASA engineer): "...and then the Jupiter rocket exploded.""
Werner von Braun (NASA engineer): "...and then the V2 rocket exploded."
There, fixed that for you.
That and all the reporters are embedded.