That's all I've done. The "media" partition of my drive is FAT32, so that I can use it under Linux and Windows. Don't know how performance is affected, but it seems to work fine for me.
I like the transparency of the open source community.
I'm sure you do, as well as many other people. But I think this is a minor group compared to the amount of people that just want someone to tell them App-X or Software-Y can solve their problems. I think OSS sorely misses that...a PR Rep to tell everyone "Yes, this will solve your problems. Look at this pretty presentation!" It may not be the most moral way of attracting customers, but it does work. Never underestimate the value that flash and pizzazz has on a desparate customer...
The safe thing to do is to hide all knowledge of these technologies from everyone who isn't a corporation based in the U.S.. That way, these tools can only be used for the good of the human race.
You know...you had a half decent argument going, right up until this line. Exactly where does it say U.S. corporations will do what is good for the human race? As far as I know, corporations do what's good for their bottom line, not for the human race. Especially U.S. based companies. If they only did what was good for the human race, Nike wouldn't give contracts to sweatshops in Asia, Haliburton Oil would have stayed out of Iraq due to conflicts of interest, and Shell would leave Nigeria's Niger Delta...
If I could, I'd mod this up. I guess what I should have said was there is no real advantage to using WinCE over any other established embedded OS. Didn't intentionally mean to come off as a Linux-zealot. Sometimes I forget just how many OSes are out there, especially in the embedded market. Again, in any case, this will be a war of marketting. If MS can win over the car companies, so be it. I just personally wouldn't feel safe in an MS-powered car...
Ok, I've spent too much time on this, but I'll post this to clarify. If that car company already has people to write the software, then great. The next this to do is decide what to base it on. While you could write your own OS, there are enough of them out there already that this would be a waste of time. So you have to decide on an OS. You could go with MS, but you're restricted in what you can do with the OS. I.e., you would have to use their hooks and their APIs, and you don't really have any other choice because developing your own is a direct violation of your contract with MS. So you have to rely on them to provide you with a stable OS. Without any way to audit the code, you have to take their word for it. Now while there is all of that, MS also has been widely adopted and many people are familiar with it. There are some advantages to using MS based systems.
On the other hand, by choosing an Linux vendor, you get an OS that you can audit, make changes to, pretty much do anything you want with. With companies like Redhat who have decided to throw more support to the corporate business customers, techincal support should not be an issue. At least it should be on par with MS support. With Linux though, you need programmers with experience writing clean stable code under Linux. Not only that, they need to create an interface that is familiar and easy to learn. Admittingly, there are some things that will be more difficult under Linux. But considering the upsides to using open-source, such as full software control and less restrictions on making changes, this could be an easy trade-off to using the more restrictive yet more familiar MS software.
Like I said, from a technical point of view, they are both pretty much on even ground. You just need to weigh the benefits of each. For a car company who's reputation is on the line with each car they make, having control over everything that goes into a car by using open-source software might be more important then any advantages gained in going with MS software.
Again, how is MS better at this than any Linux company?
My point is that if there is a bug somewhere, it would be easier to fix on your own then wait for the company you bought the software from to fix it. And you're going to pay someone to write the code for your own company-specific software no matter what. So you might as well do it with an OS that you have full control over, so that everything is auditable. And everything is as stable as you can make it, not as stable as some other company feels like making it. Remember, if you were a car company, this is your reputation and livelyhood on the line. You're customers won't look to Microsoft to fix their problems. They'll be looking to you. You can partner with MS if you feel they are up to the challenge. But don't complain if they don't feel as strongly about making stable as much as you do...
I'm beginning to think you are just a troll, but I'll bite anyways. You're saying MS is a proven company, given the amount of bugs in all their products? Not that you could find any on your own once you begin coding, considering that you can't examine their code without signing away most of your rights to complain about code problems. At least with Linux, you have to code available to you without restrictions, and can make changes without having to get permission while wasting time and money securing that permission. Plus with the development of Linux distros in China, even manufacturing their own CPUs, it's just that much more incentive for Asian companies to invest in their own companies instead of some foreign company. As for the West there will be many hurdles to overcome, both for the car manufacturers and the Linux companies, since MS has a pretty strong grip on many businesses. In any case, from a technical point of view, there is still no advantage to using WinCE over Linux for this situation.
So having a legitimate company support you over an obscure horde of sweaty hackers who just tells you to RTFM does not count as a reason?
Uh...I'm sure the many legitimate Linux companies, such as Red Hat, Suse, Debian, Slackware, etc...would be more then happy to provide assistance to any car manufacturer considering Linux for their cars.
Seeing as car- and computer-specific programming needs to be done anyways, there is no reason to use WinCE over embedded Linux. In this case they maybe on even ground, with a slight edge given to Linux for being open-source and auditable. And possibly cost too. Familiarity doesn't affect anything since car manufacturers, especially those of luxury cars, will probably want their own company-made interface to distinguish themselves. This will be a war of marketting, which I don't hold much hope for MS in the already disenchanted Asian market, and the increasingly disenchanted European market.
Action: RIAA overcharges for their product.
Consequence: Millions of people download songs shared on Napster for free.
Two wrongs don't make a right. Someone is going to have to make the compremises. The question now is: Will it be the RIAA? Or the millions of people who buy their products but are getting ticked off about getting gouged?
Yes, you're right. Frameworks can add complexity and overhead. But they also provide for rapid app development, common functions, and a shorter learning curve. The reason I found it frustrating to work in Java in the beginning was because I had to re-invent the wheel everytime. I use to do the same in other languages, until I got pissed off and began writing my own frameworks. I never got to work in Java enough to do one for it, but anything would have been better then programming my own widgets that never quite come up the way you want. It would have been nice to have something do the low-level repetative stuff for me while I concentrated on solving the real problem.
Frameworks do have their place, especially in businesses that need fast software turnarounds. So please...don't re-invent unless something stops working first.
So you're say that a company suing other companies for dealing with Linux, threatening it's end-users and the end-users of several other companies, and distablizing an industry that could very well have been good to them is better then a) coming up with a viable business plan to provide service to their current and new customer base, or b) dying a quiet peaceful death that leaves it's employees with some dignity and pride as they look for another job. Sorry, but this entire thing smack of a pump-n-dump scheme. No good can come of this...
It's an old 3Com HomeConnect. Poor quality, but I only paid $10 for it so I didn't care. Support for it on Linux has been user-driven only, and getting the damned thing to work is very difficult. I know...I can always get a better webcam. But I bought it because I didn't know how useful it would be to me. And seeing as I'm still only playing around with it as a surveilence camera, I find it good enough for the job...under Windows only, though.
This doesn't shock me at all. Yahoo has been in the spam business for quite a while now. I've abandoned my mail account because of it, despite the fact that I've clicked that "Do Not Send Me Anything" button. Mail.com is getting just as bad now. I see this as a sign that companies are getting desparate to increase their revenues in any way possible, knowing most people will put up with the BS and a small percentage will buy into it.
No...he's right. Users are morons. I work for many of them. But the morons aren't the only one who would find this useful. I would love the ability to simply plug in my USB webcam and have the software for it automatically load, so that I can start using it right away. But I can't do that in Linux. I can't do that in anything below WinME, but at least I can do it with a more modern version of Windows.
I would like Windows.Net server for Christmas.
And more ram.
Your's Truly,
Slashdot Website
I would like a Quad Opteron with 2 gigs of ram.
And a T3 line.
Your's Truly
A poor shmuck with a lump of scorched metal that use to be my web server until someone posted links to it on Slashdot.
Check your fucking attitude, anonymous dipshit. Who the hell are you, the grammer police? Jeez...you even had to wait a day until posting that shlop so the mods wouldn't catch you. Go back under your bridge where you belong...
Slashdot Mirror
That's all I've done. The "media" partition of my drive is FAT32, so that I can use it under Linux and Windows. Don't know how performance is affected, but it seems to work fine for me.
Because they're already use to geeks flooding their site?
I like the transparency of the open source community.
I'm sure you do, as well as many other people. But I think this is a minor group compared to the amount of people that just want someone to tell them App-X or Software-Y can solve their problems. I think OSS sorely misses that...a PR Rep to tell everyone "Yes, this will solve your problems. Look at this pretty presentation!" It may not be the most moral way of attracting customers, but it does work. Never underestimate the value that flash and pizzazz has on a desparate customer...
The safe thing to do is to hide all knowledge of these technologies from everyone who isn't a corporation based in the U.S.. That way, these tools can only be used for the good of the human race.
You know...you had a half decent argument going, right up until this line. Exactly where does it say U.S. corporations will do what is good for the human race? As far as I know, corporations do what's good for their bottom line, not for the human race. Especially U.S. based companies. If they only did what was good for the human race, Nike wouldn't give contracts to sweatshops in Asia, Haliburton Oil would have stayed out of Iraq due to conflicts of interest, and Shell would leave Nigeria's Niger Delta...
If I could, I'd mod this up. I guess what I should have said was there is no real advantage to using WinCE over any other established embedded OS. Didn't intentionally mean to come off as a Linux-zealot. Sometimes I forget just how many OSes are out there, especially in the embedded market. Again, in any case, this will be a war of marketting. If MS can win over the car companies, so be it. I just personally wouldn't feel safe in an MS-powered car...
Ok, I've spent too much time on this, but I'll post this to clarify. If that car company already has people to write the software, then great. The next this to do is decide what to base it on. While you could write your own OS, there are enough of them out there already that this would be a waste of time. So you have to decide on an OS. You could go with MS, but you're restricted in what you can do with the OS. I.e., you would have to use their hooks and their APIs, and you don't really have any other choice because developing your own is a direct violation of your contract with MS. So you have to rely on them to provide you with a stable OS. Without any way to audit the code, you have to take their word for it. Now while there is all of that, MS also has been widely adopted and many people are familiar with it. There are some advantages to using MS based systems.
On the other hand, by choosing an Linux vendor, you get an OS that you can audit, make changes to, pretty much do anything you want with. With companies like Redhat who have decided to throw more support to the corporate business customers, techincal support should not be an issue. At least it should be on par with MS support. With Linux though, you need programmers with experience writing clean stable code under Linux. Not only that, they need to create an interface that is familiar and easy to learn. Admittingly, there are some things that will be more difficult under Linux. But considering the upsides to using open-source, such as full software control and less restrictions on making changes, this could be an easy trade-off to using the more restrictive yet more familiar MS software.
Like I said, from a technical point of view, they are both pretty much on even ground. You just need to weigh the benefits of each. For a car company who's reputation is on the line with each car they make, having control over everything that goes into a car by using open-source software might be more important then any advantages gained in going with MS software.
The company should be fixing the bugs.
Again, how is MS better at this than any Linux company?
My point is that if there is a bug somewhere, it would be easier to fix on your own then wait for the company you bought the software from to fix it. And you're going to pay someone to write the code for your own company-specific software no matter what. So you might as well do it with an OS that you have full control over, so that everything is auditable. And everything is as stable as you can make it, not as stable as some other company feels like making it. Remember, if you were a car company, this is your reputation and livelyhood on the line. You're customers won't look to Microsoft to fix their problems. They'll be looking to you. You can partner with MS if you feel they are up to the challenge. But don't complain if they don't feel as strongly about making stable as much as you do...
I'm beginning to think you are just a troll, but I'll bite anyways. You're saying MS is a proven company, given the amount of bugs in all their products? Not that you could find any on your own once you begin coding, considering that you can't examine their code without signing away most of your rights to complain about code problems. At least with Linux, you have to code available to you without restrictions, and can make changes without having to get permission while wasting time and money securing that permission. Plus with the development of Linux distros in China, even manufacturing their own CPUs, it's just that much more incentive for Asian companies to invest in their own companies instead of some foreign company. As for the West there will be many hurdles to overcome, both for the car manufacturers and the Linux companies, since MS has a pretty strong grip on many businesses. In any case, from a technical point of view, there is still no advantage to using WinCE over Linux for this situation.
So having a legitimate company support you over an obscure horde of sweaty hackers who just tells you to RTFM does not count as a reason?
Uh...I'm sure the many legitimate Linux companies, such as Red Hat, Suse, Debian, Slackware, etc...would be more then happy to provide assistance to any car manufacturer considering Linux for their cars.
Seeing as car- and computer-specific programming needs to be done anyways, there is no reason to use WinCE over embedded Linux. In this case they maybe on even ground, with a slight edge given to Linux for being open-source and auditable. And possibly cost too. Familiarity doesn't affect anything since car manufacturers, especially those of luxury cars, will probably want their own company-made interface to distinguish themselves. This will be a war of marketting, which I don't hold much hope for MS in the already disenchanted Asian market, and the increasingly disenchanted European market.
Eeew.... Len
This works both ways.
Action: RIAA overcharges for their product.
Consequence: Millions of people download songs shared on Napster for free.
Two wrongs don't make a right. Someone is going to have to make the compremises. The question now is: Will it be the RIAA? Or the millions of people who buy their products but are getting ticked off about getting gouged?
Now go re-invent, please.
Yes, you're right. Frameworks can add complexity and overhead. But they also provide for rapid app development, common functions, and a shorter learning curve. The reason I found it frustrating to work in Java in the beginning was because I had to re-invent the wheel everytime. I use to do the same in other languages, until I got pissed off and began writing my own frameworks. I never got to work in Java enough to do one for it, but anything would have been better then programming my own widgets that never quite come up the way you want. It would have been nice to have something do the low-level repetative stuff for me while I concentrated on solving the real problem.
Frameworks do have their place, especially in businesses that need fast software turnarounds. So please...don't re-invent unless something stops working first.
Tommorow: Writes worm to get people pins + number
Uh, isn't it suppose to be...
Tomorrow: Script kiddies waits for someone to do most of work writing worm for them, modifies 2 lines to get pins+number.
I lost slashdot for a day. I almost had to commit a suicide to relieve the pain.
The next time this happens, just do what I do to make those feelings go away. Start drinking...
I'm sure we'd all be much better off if everything was designed by committee
Ah yes...committee...the only known being with eight mouths and no brain.
So you're say that a company suing other companies for dealing with Linux, threatening it's end-users and the end-users of several other companies, and distablizing an industry that could very well have been good to them is better then a) coming up with a viable business plan to provide service to their current and new customer base, or b) dying a quiet peaceful death that leaves it's employees with some dignity and pride as they look for another job. Sorry, but this entire thing smack of a pump-n-dump scheme. No good can come of this...
It's an old 3Com HomeConnect. Poor quality, but I only paid $10 for it so I didn't care. Support for it on Linux has been user-driven only, and getting the damned thing to work is very difficult. I know...I can always get a better webcam. But I bought it because I didn't know how useful it would be to me. And seeing as I'm still only playing around with it as a surveilence camera, I find it good enough for the job...under Windows only, though.
This doesn't shock me at all. Yahoo has been in the spam business for quite a while now. I've abandoned my mail account because of it, despite the fact that I've clicked that "Do Not Send Me Anything" button. Mail.com is getting just as bad now. I see this as a sign that companies are getting desparate to increase their revenues in any way possible, knowing most people will put up with the BS and a small percentage will buy into it.
No...he's right. Users are morons. I work for many of them. But the morons aren't the only one who would find this useful. I would love the ability to simply plug in my USB webcam and have the software for it automatically load, so that I can start using it right away. But I can't do that in Linux. I can't do that in anything below WinME, but at least I can do it with a more modern version of Windows.
If it makes you feel better, the cartoon was called "Captain N"...
I would like Windows .Net server for Christmas.
And more ram.
Your's Truly,
Slashdot Website
I would like a Quad Opteron with 2 gigs of ram.
And a T3 line.
Your's Truly
A poor shmuck with a lump of scorched metal that use to be my web server until someone posted links to it on Slashdot.
Wow...you call your's Domino? I call mine Mr. Happy. Strange world...
Check your fucking attitude, anonymous dipshit. Who the hell are you, the grammer police? Jeez...you even had to wait a day until posting that shlop so the mods wouldn't catch you. Go back under your bridge where you belong...
Don't forget about his head...