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Universities Dispute with Red Hat over 'Fedora'
Carl Lagoze points out that a pre-existing software project is already using the Fedora name, dating back to 1998. They're unhappy with Red Hat's claim to the name, and have objected.
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Founded December 2002 by University of Hawaii Computer Science student Warren Togami, the previous Fedora Linux Project is an international team of volunteer software developers united for the development of high quality 3rd party RPM packages for the Red Hat Linux platform.
Did Darl McBride take over Red Hat when we weren't looking?
"Fedora is now a trademark of Red Hat, Inc. Red Hat will defend this trademark in order to protect the integrity of The Fedora Project"
Looks like Red Hat needs to find another name.
Don't anthropomorphize computers, they don't like it.
...here goes the FireBird scandal all over again...
Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
Then apparently Fedora needs to change hats...
Red Hat did not claim the name... fedora was the name of the previous project... they made rpms for redhat!
Now.. they just assume the old name.. it was not a matter of chosing it!
I don't see why they didn't just keep the name "RedHat Linux."
The World is Yours.
Maybe they should call theirs "lungcheese" or something. "with a name like "lungcheese", it has to run good"
"Never pet a burning dog."
They could be RedFedora.
I, for one, welcome our new Antichrist overlord.
seems www.fedora.info is using a hat that looks similar to redhats doesnt it? im sure everyone will throw stones for a while...till the glass house falls down.
Should we point out to the university that Amazon is the name of a rainforest, and that the online store should change their name?
There are many instances where names overlap in different products, companies and places. It's just something that you have to accept and deal with in a free market economy, and especially OSS.
Kind of like http://freshmeat.net/projects/gentoo/ and http://www.gentoo.org.
I'm still waiting for XPLasersport to sue WindowsXP. The "Photon Experience" somehow became the "Windows Experience". Sue sue sue! Then maybe Photon could come back :)
Blue BabyBonnet Linux
Raspberry Beret Linux
I mean really. The attempt at "fedora" from "red hat" was cute.....but it isn't exactly necessary.....
Pink Sunglasses Linux.....
Green Visor Linux
fedora is a "cute" inside joke that most people won't even get. [how many PHB's or joe-sixpacks or even college students do you really expect know what the hell a Fedora is anyway]
-b
When in doubt, parenthesize. At the very least it will let some poor schmuck bounce on the % key in vi. (Larry Wall)
Matt Drudge has issued an objection, as he has a program that dates back to '98; a content management tool that auto-publishes sexual innuendo the second it is uttered by obscure, unnamed sources.
-Laz
I don't get why all this mess. The FEDORA name isn't a great name at all.
A simple Google search on "Fedora" shows the project as the third result (behind two Fedora Linux results.) If you were going to name your project something, don't you think you'd at least take the ten seconds it takes to do a Google search and make sure you're not taking an already-used name? Fedora (Flexible Extensible Digital Object Repository Architecture) is even trademarked, for crying out loud.
Somebody at Red Hat needs their ass kicked over this, methinks.
In case it gets slashdotted: mirror
If the Fedora Project objects, then they should file their own application for trademark registration and an opposition to RedHat's registration.
I have no dispute with the university's prior claim.
But I have to wonder if they have been living under a rock... what took them so long to get vocal about this? RH's Fedora has been on the public radar for a long, long time now.
Just call it Firebird!
IANAL, but AFAIK you cannot trademark common English words. The example I've always seen is that you cannot trademark the word "orange", but you could trademark a unique phrase containing the word "orange". The Fedora Project homepage linked from the parent article seems to have the *word* "Fedora" trademarked, which I can't see would be possible (and in fact, it's not listed as a registered trademark, just a trademark - so there's no government sanctioning of their trademark).
I'm not sure I blame Red Hat for this one. A fedora is a fedora, just like an orange is an orange. You can't trademark it. If two companies are using the same word for their software projects, too bad. Protest those who put the word in the Oxford dictionary, maybe... but I don't think there's any real legal claim here.
And I'll close by reminding you again, IANAL.
anyone else find it a bit of a coincidence that the Fedora Project's web site has a black hat as its logo?
#!/
Since all the geeks round here refer to 'Head Rat Linux' anyway, they should rename it Deaf Aura just to keep one step ahead...
Basically you didn't read the announcement did you? The Fedora name has been in use since 1998.
1. Bowler
2. Beanie
3. Tinfoil
4. Fez
5. Toque
6. Skullcap
7. Helmet
8. Cowboy Neal's AssHat
Maybe we just need to stop letting people trademark common words. To me it is ridiculous that anyone can trademark a word that is found in a dictionary.
I'm going to trademark the word "the".
Since Fedora's been around a pretty decent while and this university did not try to get Fedora to change its name, has the university forfeited its trademark claim on "Fedora" by its failure to defend it?
a trilby
I don't know much about the dispute but the use of trademarks on fedora.info's page is a tad bit on the excessive side. Being in advertising I have to use trademarks all the time, the general rule is you only apply it to the first instance. The exception being when it's used again in a headline, header or subhead.
I don't think anyone would mind.
Well, can't use "Pink Tie" if I recall correctly, as that's what cheapbytes used to sell what would have otherwise been a Red Hat distro.
How about calling it "The Distro Formerly Known as Red Hat Linux for Consumers?" -- or "|" for short? Instant recognition from avid *nix users...yet geeky enough to separate the "in-crowd" from the strictly-windows folks.
The ironic thing about this is that Fedora is supposed to be the community edition of Red Hat Linux (so the PR wants us to imagine as opposed to bluntly being beta testers of RHE) -- it really isn't good press to be creating negative buzz in the community.
That said, I'm running a downloaded version of RH9 and wondering how things will go from there.
Click here to view the status of Red Hat's Trademark filing.
-- Stu
/. ID under 2,000. I feel old now.
I think they should go with an Australian theme and call it "Hat with corks hanging from it".
Has a nice ring to it.
They may have just gone public, but their site says "The Cornell and Virginia teams have taken a number of steps to try to work with Red Hat regarding use of the name Fedora(TM). At this date, Red Hat has refused our request...." My guess is that they started waving their hands as soon as it became public knowledge, but as usual it took a while for everybody to hear about everybody else -- by which time it's a little late to get the toothpaste back into the tube.
-- We all have enough strength to endure the misfortunes of other people. La Rochefoucauld
Who cares who owns the name? Fedora Linux's latest release really sucks and is doomed.
a homburg
Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
Just change the name to "Butthead University".
Belief is the currency of delusion.
Fedora is a horrible name. Why waste time and money protecting it? It isn't catchy, it doesn't sound sexy enough to sell to a desktop user and it doesn't sound serious enough for business.
Its a joke and not a very clever one. They had there laugh, now is a good time to move on to more important things.
Quack, quack.
Just a thought...
"Faith: Belief without evidence in what is told by one who speaks without knowledge, of things without parallel." - A.B.
The ought to name it after the cowboy hat, our President (in the U.S.), and after Cowboy Neal!
... and I was going to suggest that they Beret the hatchet ...!
Don't go to a brothel if you want to buy broth
Windows, Ford, and other are common words. I too, am not a lawyer, but it seems like there's no problem if there's no confusion. The point is to bust people who are piggybacking on someone else's success or giving your product a bad name. These two products could reasonably be confused. Therefore it would be advisable to choose a different name.
No, if you read the press release you will see that they were releasing software and documentation as far back as 1998. The May 2003 date is simply when they reached version 1.0.
Is this truly the only Earth I can live on?
am i the only one that associates "fedora" with indiana jones?
to squash your competition, simply get a short, 2 line story posted to slashdot. let geeks around the world do the dirty work for you for free. no more stock options for lawyers!
vodka, straight up, thank you!
I always thought the fez was kinda cool.
according to these folks they farted around for 5 years and did barely anything. redhat announces a merger with the existing fedora linux project (existing since november 2002) and there's a release in just a month or so. and while redhat has trademarked the name they haven't threatened this project.
and now they want to bitch about the name?
US Citizen living abroad? Register to vote!
1) I (tm)
2) the (tm)
3) monkey (tm)
that is all.
01100111 01100101 01110100 00100000 01101111 01110101 01110100 00100000 01101101 01101111 01110010 01100101 00101110
A search at the US patent and trademark office lists 4 registered trademarks with the word fedora in them.
. 73467748 Feb 28 1984 Fedora Cafe and Bar
. 78296509 Sept 5 2003 Red Hat
. 78268874 June 30 2003 cosmetics
. 78312293 Oct 10 2003 Chemical Data Software
The fedora.info site of the complaining fedora project is using a tm symbol next to thier name on the site, but they have not registered it with the US trademark office.
It is not exclusively trademarked for software by fedora.info.
This could be forgiven of a small independent group, but this group is a co sponsored project, part of Cornell University and University of Virginia both of which I am sure have strict policies about things like Trademark, copyright and patents. And both have the legal staff to handle it.
Sorry but they won't get any sympathy from me, and no support from the law.
Trademark is not like copyright law, you must register to get exclusive control for a product in a market.
You got that right. "Fedor" in Portuguese means stench. The "-a" ending is feminine, so "fedora" sounds like, well, you can imagine.
What the heck were they thinking???
TYLER
Do you know what a fedora it?
JACK
a soft felt hat
TYLER
It's a hat, just a hat. Now why guys like you and I know what a fedora is? Is this essential to our survival? In the hunter-gathered sense of the word? No. What are we then?
JACK
You know, consumers.
TYLER
Right. We're consumers. We're by-products of a lifestyle obsession. Murder, crime, poverty -- these things don't concern me. What concerns me is celebrity magazines, television with five hundred channels, some guy's name on my underwear. Rogaine, Viagra, Olestra.
JACK
Martha Stewart.
TYLER
Fuck Martha Stewart. Martha's polishes on the brass of the Titanic. It's all going down, man! So fuck off, with your sofa units and your green stripe patterns. I say never be complete. I say stop being perfect. I say let's evolve and let the chips fall where they may. But that's me, I could be wrong, maybe it's a terrible tragedy.
JACK
No, it's just stuff.
TYLER
Well, you did lose a lot of versatile solutions for a modern life.
JACK
Fuck, you're right.
Tyler offers Jack a cigarette.
JACK
No, I don't smoke. My insurance will probably cover it, so...
Tyler stares at him
JACK
What?
TYLER
The things you own, end up owing you. But do what you like, man.
Thanks, I didn't know that. *tears* :-)
Quack, quack.
Red Amyss, so when people ask what's 'read amiss' we would just say something flippant like 'the gpl'.
Then we could walk away with a chuckle to go get a pizza or something.
Yeah.
I just did a search for 'heavens to murgatroid', because I couldn't remember which of my old cartoon favorites used that line. And guess what I find This, WTF ?!?!?!?
You can trademark common english words if the product/service the trademark will be put on is not related to the meaning of the word.
All true and correct. But this doesn't explain how "Windows" really justifies its trademark. A "window" in computer parlance means what we all think it is - a program in a box on a screen. Thus, "X-Windows". How can it be claimed that a "Window" (and thus "Windows") is not a generic term?
Watching the Lindows trademark suit may be *very* interesting, if Lindows goes on the offensive and has the resources to pull it off...
I have no problem with your religion until you decide it's reason to deprive others of the truth.
That's probably why Cornell's Fedora Project uses a hat as a logo and why Redhat chose Fedora as a project name.
Who'd be surprised if SCO tried to enforce their patent on dyed felt?
Perhaps they were thinking that they didn't give a shit about Portugal.
One hopes that the parties concerned will behave like gentlemen and sort this out between themselves without setting their lawyers on each other, thus proving that the world of open source can behave in a civilised manner, unlike Mr. McBride. There is much to gain from a fair and just settlement being achieved quickly. It seems to me that if pushed to the limit, Red Hat will need to back down, but not knowing all the details, that may not be so. It may even be that the names can exist simultaneously as they refer to quite different products, eg if one company made a Fedora car, and another created a Fedora breakfact cereal, there would not normally be a conflict. Now as one product is an application, and the other a complete OS suite, they are fairly different things. It might not be unreasonable for them to settle by calling one Fedora Repository, and the other Fedora Linux, for example. It would also be decent if each put a link to the other on their web site and a mention on their package or hardcopy manual. That would be in the spirit of what open source is all about, and would be to the mutual benefit of both parties. But, if it descends to the lower regions of civilisation where lawyers lurk to releive everyone of their hard-earned cash, the image of open source is damaged, and we are on a level with Gates, Ballmer, McBride etc. Please do not let this happen. To prevent future problems, maybe someone like the FSF, in conjunction with other relevant parties encompassing other variants of open or free software, could coordinate the naming of future projects, so there would be no need for conflicts to happen in the future. By avoiding conflict and any kind of heavy-handed approach, there is much to be gained for everyone. While the chief proponents of closed-source bugware waste their time and energy suing each other, the open source movement should be producing useful applications.
How about. . . Redora?
That would be cool, then RMS would be able to fork his own GNU-centric version, and name it Rhetoric
Before you send off those interview questions to Matthew Szulik, I think there may be one or two new ones that would be appropriate...
On the subject of hats, Why did the 3 cornered hat go out of style? They were cool. I think I'll try to track one down, then I'll be cool.
that'll teach them to complain.
(This tagline has been laugh-tracked for the humor impaired.)
Oh no, not another dispute over common words
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=fedora
fedora ( P ) Pronunciation Key (f-dor, -dr)
n.
A soft felt hat with a fairly low crown creased lengthwise and a brim that can be turned up or down.
People are idiots. IT people especially so.
...and learn the difference between "TM" and "R".
what about RedCap Linux??
I can't believe what some of you are writing...
Does no one notice the "red hat" is a red fedora? HELLO? The choice of name was not arbitrary. No, they could not have just called themselves "pink sunglasses."
I dislike Fedora as much as the next guy (meaning the distro) but geeze...
Take a look here. Scroll down, and there you'll see...wait, what is that...its a Fedora! Its red! Its the same damn hat that's been in the RH logo for years (not the original, mind you, but for a lot longer than 1998 anyway).
Regardless, if the fedora.info project has it trademarked, then they do. But it was NOT an arbitrary choice, people. yeesh.
The REAL question I'm wondering is: Did Red Hat seriously not take five minutes to look into any prior instances of the name "Fedora" in similar projects (any search engine would turn this up), or did Red Hat decide they were big and powerful enough that they could pretend they were Microsoft or Apple and just throw their legal and financial weight around and simply steal the name from the "little guy"?
The Fedora Project can now also apply for trademark registration, with a "first use in commerce" date several years old. If they do, the examiner will have to sort this out. The Fedora Project probably has priority, which is based on the date of first use in commerce.
The Other Fedora
Kids Edition: Dora the Fedora
Fedora 2: Bride of Fedora
RedFoam (an anagram of Fedora M)
Dope Hat
Dick Head (Detectives in the 40's wore fedoras and were called "Dicks" and Hats are worn on the head)
Red Hat could get a celebrity endorser, and attach his name to the product. Maybe a celebrity Red Hat user, or wearer.
Pete Rose's Red Hat Fedora
Alvin's Red Hat Fedora (of Alvin and the Chipmunks fame).
or a rock band
Limp Bizkit's Fred Durst's Red Hat Fedora (known for his backwards Red baseball cap).
What about Redora
Red Hat has a history of being rabid about trademarks, check google. I think they figure they now own any term or likeness to anything that resembles a hat, without worrying about what kind of precendent they're setting.
Why did the 3 cornered hat go out of style?
Umm, to get to the other side?
Come on - what's the punchline?!?!? Don't leave me hanging!
RedCap is a brand of work clothes. We were talking about clothing, weren't we?
*rubs hands together with evil smile and deep voice*
Good... Good!
If the older project renames themselves, that could work.
Kinda reminds you of the Nissan Computer vs. Nissan Motors battle.
Remember some years ago when some of the more fanatical in the OS community worried RH would become the M$ of Linux? I recall thinking these folks were crazy but now I'm thinking they just might be clairvoyant!
I'm always shocked at these types of naming farces. It is so easy to run a search on any name and determine prior uses. Besides a search engine, other good sources of prior uses of name include any online yellow pages, whois, and the USPTO Trademark Search. A bit of searching before deciding on a name can help prevent these types of trademark infringement problems.
Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do.
In the Cornell/UVA Link, they consistently brand Fedora with the "TM" symbol, indicating that the "Fedora" name is indeed trademarked.
So, just call up the US Patent and TRADEMARK Office and see who it belongs to.
Does anyone know if Trademarks are subject to the same Prior Art challenges as Patents are?
as shovel or paperweight. Red Hat as a name was interesting. Fedora is more like a developer name and signifies about as much. Kind of like saying "nothing to see here".
Quack, quack.
It looks like only one, which would make it "university's".
Apple got away with using "OS 9" despite the existence of an earlier "OS-9" on the grounds that no one could confuse an embedded product with a desktop OS.
I do not know how the law affects this, but it seems silly that version numbers can be trademarked. Why did Apple need to justify that version 9 of their OS can be called "OS9"? That would be like trademarking "OS2". Wait, IBM already did that.
IBM decided to avoid these issues with Lotus Notes. Everybody abbreviated "Lotus Notes Release 4" to "R4". Everybody abbreviated "Lotus Notes Release 5" to "R5". Most people abbreviate "Lotus Notes Release 6" to "R6", but IBM has requested that everybody refer to it as "D6" (Domino release 6) and "N6" (Notes release 6) to avoid difficulties with SAP, which already used "R6". If a company with the legal prowess of IBM thinks it is important to make an effort to convince the users how to talk about their product, there must be major legal difficulties that they are trying to avoid. I do not understand, since their trademarks are "Lotus" and "Notes", not the version numbers, although I think they did trademark the image of R5 with a hula hoop.
I always figured that MS changed their versioning for Windows so people would not ask "You need windows 4 what?" with the usual answer of "Because my computer is running too fast and I cannot catch it." If they can skip MSWord5, they can skip MSWindows4 through 94, although it was more impressive when they skipped 99 through 1999. (Yeah, I know they were different product lines.)
I should find a new word for versioning my software. "Variant" and "Volume" are still "V". "Rendition" is still "R". "Make" is "M", which might work if it does not upset the entire Unix and OSS worlds. "Publication" is too long and would allow "pee" jokes. "Issue" is the best word I found. Now I need the software trademarks for "I2", "I3", "I4", "I5"... so I do not have to worry about conflicts with the abbreviated forms.
I spend my life entertaining my brain.
The Firebird DBMS has been running for years before the Mozilla group decided to claim the name. The only difference is that they didn't fight back...possibly because they couldn't afford the lawyers. This one may go to the courts...and I won't be on Red Hat's side.
As to what I think of Mozilla for claim jumping the Firebird name... I think it a was gross, disreputable, and dishonorable act, and that any group that intentionally committed it is laying claim to those characteristics. (I know that they HAD to change names because they were threatened by Phoenix...but that's no real excuse for what they did. Phoenix was a very different product compared to Firebird. Firebird just couldn't threaten them with lawyers.)
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
Today I claim the word "The" to be my idea. Anyone who even thinks about making something called "The", or who even uses that word, will be sued by me and my lawyers for one-hundred trillion dollars. Wait a minute, looking at my post, I may need to sue myself, Fox style.
I hate sigs.
Fedora Core is only MOSTLY Free Software. It still contains packages such as fedora-logos and anaconda-images which are distributed as "All rights reserved" for the "license." It would be nice if it was called GNU/Fedora, but it would also be nice if it was more in line with the redistribution philosophy of Free Software.
If they do change the name to Red Cap, can we change the mascot to the red caps in the Mage comic by Matt Wagner. Short naked trolls with spiked sole boots, red caps and nipple rings would be an interesting change.
Fedora seems like a bit of silly product name for a company called Red Hat. Why don't they call it Red Hat Linux. Whopps been there done that. :-)
Jeez people. Read the article. A quick search on google will reveal that Cornell was using the name way back in 1998.
Looks like Red Hat needs to find another name.
They should call it "Crimson Fedora" and be done with it. It leaves no doubt it's associated with Red Hat.
bp
Excuse me sir, I'd like to have some of what you're smoking.
The Fedora Project was started in 1999; by September 2001, a significant framework was already in place -- significant enough to warrant a $1 million grant for a "sophisticated digital object repository system" based on Fedora. The May 2003 date was for the public version 1.0 release, and has nothing to do with the inception of the project. Fedora Linux was not started until December 2002. When you consider that the Fedora name was also already trademarked by the university, you can see why they have a strong point.
Am I a hipster-doofus?
"Like butter!"
Thank you, I'll be here all week!
They are simply continuing a trend of sue them before they sue us. Not saying that Fedora "The College Project" was necessarily going to sue RedHat, but it happens. Small group with a claim sues larger/richer group just for some cash. It is not rare nor unrealistic of this kind of lawsuit. The fact is that anyone looking at Fedora Linux is not going to be confused by a Digital Repository or vice versa, so all we are asking for is a little reality check and reasonabilty by both sides. I agree however, that "Fedora" is not the greatest name in the world, so does anyone really want to die on THAT mountain.
He who confuses his religion with his science knows neither.
Well, but then again, Portuguese isn't spoken only in Portugal. In fact, Portuguese is the 7th most spoken language in the world, with a little over 170 million speakers worldwide. English, for example, has only about the double of that amount, ranking in third (~322M), just below Spanish (2nd) and Chinese Mandarin (1st).
Portuguese is my first language and I'm not portuguese. Or ever been to Portugal, for that matter.
...it is sort of true. Without the GNU software Linux wouldn't be much of an OS.
Wouldn't it?
By the GNU utilities without which Linux "wouldn't be much of an OS" you're presumably referring to fundamental tools such as ls, cp, bash, and gcc.
But consider John Desktop Linux User's reaction. He doesn't know what "ls" is: when he wants to browse a directory, he uses Konqueror. What's "cp"? When he wants to copy a file, he uses drag-and-drop. "Bash"? Oh, that command-line thing? Isn't that just for gurus? When John wants to run a program, he clicks its icon, and he doesn't have the first inkling that you might be able to do more than that from a command line. You've probably got the picture by now - there's no point mentioning gcc.
Gnome users might be using GNU/Linux, but KDE users sure aren't. They're using XFree86, KDE, OpenOffice.org, and Mozilla to make their Linux kernel into an operating system. Maybe back in the 80s you could define an OS by its command-line tools, but in a modern desktop environment that simply isn't true any more.
OH MY GOD!
What a bunch of whining idiots.
Red Hat 0wns j00, bitches.
That is exactly why Microsoft never uses the name "Windows(tm)", because it is not and cannot be trademarked. It is always written "Microsoft Windows(tm)"
Why don't they just call it "Debian"? As in, "Ever since Red Hat disowned the community distribution, I've been using Debian." I've heard people using it this way already, so it shouldn't be too hard to change. Just start using "Debian" instead of "Fedora".
Cheers,
IT
Power corrupts. PowerPoint corrupts absolutely.
I created a buggy POS Java app last year named JavaSwitch. I tried to compile it with the latest version of Java the other day and it crapped out because there is now a built-in class called JavaSwitch. I'm going to sue Sun, McBride-style. =) Good times.
Zend all Sig.
A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it. -- Einstein
Perhaps they were thinking that they didn't give a shit about Portugal.
So they may have been. However, if you've been reading Slashdot recently, you may have noticed various stories about governments promoting Linux. One of them was about the Brazilian government. Guess what the major language is in Brazil?
Virginia/Cornell have been using the name Fedora since 1998. I don't think Warren Togami has anything to take exception to. Both of them should just share and get along. Fedora is a regular noun, a type of hat. Its not a made up word someone can take claim to.
Moderation Totals: Flamebait=2, Troll=1, Redundant=1, Insightful=6, Overrated=1, Underrated=1, Total=12. (not mine)
The problem is that all the best names are already taken. Some are taken by real companies selling real products, others are taken by obscure one-man-shop programmers. RedHat wanted a cool name for this new product, and realized they'd have better odds picking a fight with a ragtag bunch of students than with a real company with real resources to invest in a legal battle.
I think they're right. Seriously, all the best names are taken. If you're going to create a new product, the best you can hope for is that whoever has already created a product with that name didn't really do much with it, and will be willing to sell you the name (or not put up a fight when you take it anyway).
Like woodworking? Build your own picture frames.
It's clear, "Red Hat's official "Red Hat" has been the Red Hat Fedora made by the New York Hat Company for many years. "*, gives them rights to the name. They obviously called it red 'hat' rather than red 'fedora' so as not to tax their nascent call center with queries from thousands of alternative OS reviewing, fresh MBA grads, inquiring as to, "please sir, what is this 'fedora', i wish to make a good impression on my new employer and must know in order to prepare my power point presentation". Why should they be penealized now for their past attempts at cultural sensitivity and harmony. Surely the TM grabbing clowns at CMU knew what they were doing when they appropriated the true essence of the felt TM
* http://fedora.redhat.com/about/name.html
Being strong, reliable, and slightly bloated myself, I feel my name would be a wonderful alternative to "Fedora".
Just thinking ahead.
(By the way, stop sucking, Red Hat. Seriously.)
Bowie J. Poag
Aren't you guys sick of shit like this? How hard is it to say "No, we're the *other* Fedora project." Every friggin day you hear about something like this..
Intellectual Properly rights.
Patent-this.
Copyright-that.
Darl McBride.
RIAA.
MPAA.
DMCA.
Like FUCK - when will this insanity end. Everyone gets so bloody bothered about *everything* these days. If you were to send one day's worth of CNN or Slashdot back to someone in the 70's, they'd look at it sideways and say "What the fuck are these people on?" And the scary thing is that it is getting worse.
This post is (C)opyright XFriday. All Rights Reserved. Patent Pending. Unauthorized reproduction is prohibited. Reading the above material constitutes acceptances of my end user license agreement, which you can see if you sign an NDA. I do not tolerate intellectual property infringements and I WILL sue you if you violate any of the terms I have mentioned, and some of the ones I have not mentioned. Fuck off, and have a nice day.
Since fedora is a gay sounding word anyway, let redhat have it, since redhat is gay too.
We have seen that living things are too improbable and too beautifully "designed" to have come into existence by chance.
Our featured word today is "facetious". Look it up.
Isn't taken. And I think that's a great name!
Some idiot tried to trademark the word "Spybot", bought up spybot.com, then tried to strong arm the guy that makes Spybot S&D antispyware. We announced a boycott of the company involved, had a bunch of web sites pull ads, thousands of angry emails/letters were sent to the people involved, etc.
They tried to feed me a line of crap and tried to fool me into backing off. So I turned the heat up a little hotter with a new announcement and the guy gave it up the next day.
Those guys were not the sharpest sporks in the box, believe me.
Only on
and just use "sombrero"? Might go over really well with the latin customers.
Indiana Jones is reportedly suing Red Hat, Inc. for casting his trademark headgear in a bad light. Doctor Jones's lawyer says that the term "Red Hat" could also be subject to trademark, as one of Indy's seldom worn spring outfits featured a red fedora.
In other news, Darl McBride was seen running amuck in the downtown area, stealing any hats he could get his hands on while screaming 'They're ALL MINE! MINE!!!'
Uggh, didn't realise slashdot would strip the tags around the joke part
Nice to meat you.
I absolutely agree. Although this is a tempest in a teacup, RedHat could have been responsible enough to spend 15 seconds to Google for the word.
Gnome users might be using GNU/Linux, but KDE users sure aren't.
/usr/bin/konqueror | grep libc /lib/libc.so.6 (0x0e89c000) /usr/lib/libkdecore.so.4 | grep libc /lib/libc.so.6 (0x6fa17000) /lib/libc.so.6 /lib/libc.so.6 /usr/share/doc/libc6/copyright
Really?
$ ldd
libc.so.6 =>
$ ldd
libc.so.6 =>
$ dpkg -S
libc6:
$ head -2
This is the Debian prepackaged version of the GNU C Library version
2.3.x
Without glibc, my Debian box certainly wouldn't be much of an OS - practically none of the programs would work. The major components of a Unix system are a kernel and a C library - Linux is only one of those.
Incidentally, if you think you can use XFree86 and KDE on Linux without needing command-line tools, I suggest you have a look at the scripts your system uses to boot, particularly the line "#!/bin/sh" at the top. Just because you don't use them yourself doesn't mean they're not necessary.
(On the other hand, I've seen one Linux distribution which can reasonably claim to not be GNU/Linux - revol, which runs on Psion Revo electronic organisers with 16M of RAM and no disks or removable media. It doesn't use GNU tools and libraries because they're too big; if I remember correctly it uses dietlibc for the C library and busybox for the shell utilities.)
When have trademark cases actually been won by the big guys? When has a major company had to rename a product, after it had shipped? I'm sure there are examples, but I can't think of any.
-twb
fedora (P)Pronunciation Key(f-dor, -dr)
:)
n.
A soft felt hat with a fairly low crown creased lengthwise and a brim that can be turned up or down.
Could be a red hat too me
Ave Molech Setting
Go microsoft linux! Fight the man!
Its just a meaningless phrase like "Polly wolly ding dong" or "Give peace a chance" (mangled Simpsons' quote)
Anyone wanna argue with me over the use of "Festerin g Bunghole" LINUX? Probably not. Maybe we should use THAT name.
why didn't they just name it bluehat?
all of our other marketing short comings in the OSS community. Your right, there are those who care about adoption and those who don't. I thought Red Hat did.
Quack, quack.
[user@nunyabidness user]$ cat /etc/redhat-release
Fedora Core release 1 (Yarrow)
Why not just call it Fedora Core. That's what they are doing. Turning the core (everything basically) over to the community.
Redhat Fedora doesn't sound aweful, but they don't want to associate Redhat or Shadoman with anything other than enterprise, so that's right out.
Hey ...
How about Chapeau-S/2 ?
Yea, this is getting ridiculous :)
Seriously, though... all it takes is a quick google for pre-existing projects with your chosen name. Why is this even happening?
Man, if redhat can't even get step 1 right they shouldn't even be in business anymore.
This is what happens when you don't have expert coders and developers volunteer and do things for you. Now the managment team is taking over the whole pie and it's already a disaster.
This is quite odd, as I remember several months ago when Red Hat Linux became Fedora the site http://fedora.redhat.com had a note saying "We thank Cornell University and the University of Virginia for their cooperation in letting us use the Fedora name"
I cannot find that page now. Does anyone have an archive.org link?
As in, registered with USPTO. One need not file paperwork to use ^TM next to a tradename. Being registered would entitle you to use of circle-R, which is NOT what fedora.info has claimed.
They do have a position that has legal and case-law support. Probably this will be played out in court. With this case, it is even money who wins, but I'm favoring the universities.
Just my opinion, IANAL etc.
Big Daddy, Johnny, Burp, Aunt Zelda, Scott, Slurp, Big Momma
1) Fedora isn't anything they're pitching to customers. So it doesn't need to compete in the marketplace, so there's no reason why they need to make sure the name isn't confusing. (No one would mistake "Fedora" RHL for any other product bearing it's name... it's an OPERATING SYSTEM for crying out loud)
:-)
2) FEDORA is an academic project, and it's called "Fedora PROJECT", no just Fedora.
The people who know what Fedora is in that sense would be directly interested in the project, and could not possibly connect it to RedHat.
You won't accidentally stumble onto the Fedora PROJECT and attempt to install it over Windows.
Not happening.
I really don't see how anyone can object to either party using the name other than just being pricks.
THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
I think it just would have to be renamed to RedHat, any other name would just resemble too much to Micronux.
I think the whole idea of having a free distro and a commercial distro from the same company is just fogged up.
Just in case you missed the comment earlier, Fedora.us (which merged with Red Hat Linux Project to create Fedora) has been around longer than the University project.
I've hacked Firebird (Browser. The DB people can go spit.) to recognise <ObStupidConspiracyTheory> tags and then set up a custom stylesheet to make the text between them REALLY stand out. I decided I need to know right away whenever those tags are used so I can be certain to believe the whole section as rapidly as possible after loading the page.
Funny thing, though, is this is the first time I've seen it triggered...
Gotta go, 'cause my foil hat is slipping and I think the squirrels are watching me. Keep up the good work, though, Brother Cox.
10. RedHate
GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
If you google a bit, you will find that this lady:
/ FE DORA.html
http://www.cs.cornell.edu/payette/
Wrote this paper:
http://www.cs.cornell.edu/payette/papers/ECDL98
describing FEDORA which included using the name "FEDORA" back in 1998.
It also give the locations of at least two different talks on the subject in both Greece and Germany. Shouldn't be hard to verify.
Pretty much cut and dried in my view.
Too lazy to login, just call me
John Waalkes
So call it RedCap, or RedFez. Who Cares?
-------Kettle, meet Pot----------
The safest name to invest in is a name of the form (Color) Hat, i.e., Pink Hat (for bleeding heart liberals), Blue Hat (for corporate types) or maybe Green Hat (for the environmentally conscious). Now everybody can wear two hats.
what about RedCap Linux??
It depends...
If you want the distro to associated with bloodthirsty fairies, please go right on ahead.:)
Since one is an OS and the other is An Open-Source Digital Repository Management System .. I don't really see the conflict.
If RedHat has to change the name of their project, my copy of Fedora will be worth more!
fagotty little hat....hahahaha
So which came first: the Cornell project, or the Fedora project at the University of Hawaii? If Cornell's project was first, why haven't they complained about the name clash until now?
-- Ed Avis ed@membled.com
a few months after the mad-hatters started 'their' 'open source now' ?pr? escapade, they called us offering (& failing) to trade a hat for some opensourcenow urls. fortunately for us, we already have/wear lots of hats, & were inclined to decline their 'offer'.
whatever? it's what you don't see that sometimes helps you/US to understand?
However, it's easy to create a unique name. One way is to use a random name generator. I give away Totro, a free GPL'ed name generator. You don't even have to install anything, just view the page and start creating names. Yes, the resulting name won't be a name in the dictionary, but that's a good thing - that means that the name is much more likely to be unique.
- David A. Wheeler (see my Secure Programming HOWTO)
Yes, the resulting name won't be a name in the dictionary...
:)
Ap'ka
Kaj
Soc
Owkuci
Skes
Ravi
Aefreoreo
Stink Bestrau
Uprit
Sciwkiv
Mig
Eaglu
Oeni
Pefug
Uphu
Fugrok
Fek
Auta
Leliow
I guess it doesn't check against a dictionary
---- MISSING MISCELLANEOUS DATA SEGMENT --- [sigdash] trolololol
Actually, Microsoft *has* trademarked the single word "Windows", as well as the combination "Microsoft Windows". That's what the Lindows trademark suit is all about.
Because the University of Hawaii never applied for a registered trademark on the term "Fedora". Cornell's move is a defensive reaction to Red Hat's trying to limit use of the name Cornell had already been using for 5 years.
A recent post on the fedora-legacy mailing list makes the following points (emphasis added):
Add this to the fact that fedora.redhat.com used to include a statement thanking Cornell and UVA for cooperating in the new name choice (it's gone now), and it sounds to me like F.E.D.O.R.A. just got ticked off that people were asking Fedora Core questions on their mailing lists.There letter X has been trademarked about 50 times. One of the trademarks is on the X (tm) Window System.
Windows has also been trademarked by several companies. One of the trademarks is on the Windows (tm) Operating System.
There may also be some sort of "X-Windows" trademark, though I don't know what sort of product it's on. I keep reading about it on slashdot, so I suppose it may exist. People on slashdot are generally supersmart.
Slashdot is jumping the shark. I'm just driving the boat.
They only have a case to use the trademark for thier project, nothing else.
The same as Software Etc. and Software Etcetera in the Philly area back in the late Eighties.
My point was the project (neither) can claim exclusive use.
The University project is requesting
'At this date, Red Hat has refused our request to withdraw its trademark applications and reverse its claims of usage restrictions on the name.'.
The request is assinine, if it were as important as they make out then they have no excuse for not having registered it themselves.