I know this is a little late, but from something that I read at groklaw.net it appears that there was many CDs of information submitted by SCO. The problem with them is that 46 (IIRC) CDs are of TIFF images of the code. Check out this article and search for tiff (being that that string is in the word "plaintiff" you will have to do it several times to get past the beginning briefs). To quote from one of the responses:
SCO's 122 CD's of Discovery
Authored by: JohnGabriel on Saturday, December 06 2003 @ 06:21 PM EST
In an earlier thread, someone asked if the 122 CD's of SCO's discovery
included the CD's of TIFF images.
The answer is yes.
From page 5 of IBM's first Memo In Support Of Motion To Compel (Document 45):
"...on September 20, 2003, SCO made an initial production of 46 CDs
containing over 900,000 pages of source code..."
A little quick math shows that each CD contained about 20,000 pages of source
code. At approximately 700,000 KB per CD, each page would be about 35 KB in
size. I'm sure we can all agree that in text form, a page of source code would
be about 5 KB max. (80 bytes per line x 60 lines per page) and this would only
be reached if every line were filled with blank charaters rather than returns at
the end of the line.
This is probably Judge Welles asked about the "hundreds of thousands of
pages of unusable text" in her questioning of Kevin McBride. Clearly, if
SCO claims that they gave a hundred CD's of discovery more than IBM, but those
CD's were in an unusable format, their claim of having delivered more discovery
materials than IBM is disingenuous.
The judge may well have felt insulted by SCO's presumption that whe was too
ignorant to know the difference between usable and non-usable discovery
materials.
SCO may have dug an even deeper hole for themselves than we realized yesterday.
Treating a judge as if she's stupid is not going to win them any points.
I would agree with you about the 5+ years thing. I guess to be accurate, one would also have to decide whether the Commodore/TI/Tandy etc computers were computers or video games. I had a Commodore 64 back in the day that I used to program BASIC programs. The rest of the family just plugged in the cartridges and joysticks. Also, to be honest, I never considered the Gameboys and such, but if you include them can you include cell-phones, pagers, etc that have games built in as console games, or are they computers (since they have to have operating systems)? Also, since Linux runs on the Playstation2 and the XBOX, does that make them computers? I believe Linux has even been run on one version or another of the old Sega machines.
I guess none of it really matters as that was not my point in my original post, but thanks for responding!
Not sure how my comment got modded down as a troll and yours did not.....
Anyway, I would agree with you under normal circumstances. Joe Consumer has no interest in what goes on underneath the hood (car, computer, whatever). However, the article (you did RTFA, right?) is about how OSS can help developing countries. My comment was derived directly from the parent posters comment - "The other major advantage of investing in Open Source is that the younger generation ( who are'nt into the commercial aspects of computing as yet ) grow up and learn within a framework that encourages choice and alternatives rather than constricting you into a predesignated thought process." In other words, he was referring to people who are learning about computers already. Now if you choose to not want to know what makes them tick, that is your option, but OSS promotes learning in that if you want to learn, there is alot of accurate documentation available for most popular packages that make up the various free operating systems. Unlike Microsoft who refuses to publish many features of their software outside the realm of Microsoft. Again, the choice is yours, do you want/need to know what makes computers tick?
"Why do PlayStations and such outsell PCs historically by orders of magnitude?
" -- do you have a source on that? Unless you are referring to games in general, I find it hard to believe that console games outsell personal computers.
Great points. I have one to add regarding the younger generation. OSS promotes learning about how a computer actually works. This is diametrically opposed to what the MegaCorps want.
Just my $0.02, but keep in mind; I am an MCSE yet I have learned more about computers in the last five years that I have used Linux than the ~12 years using DOS and Windoze.
I'm fairly certain it's not a kit that must be run as root to give you root access;->
Actually, that is exactly what it is. It is a kit full of modified executables that hide the fact that a box has been rooted (i.e. 'ps' that does not show a trojan running or 'netstat' that hides connections on certain ports or certain IP addresses). It may also contain trojans, backdoors etc... But in order to get it installed, you have to "root the box" first.... unless everything on the box is accessible to all....
What happens when Free software conquers all and all the software companies are put out of business, letting their programmers go?
This cannot happen. Hardware companies will continue to make hardware improvements (not to mention architecture changes) and software will need to be written to address these changes. Not to mention, very little software is "complete" right now (ask any developer if any project they had written is complete -- they can all use improvement I'll wager). I don't expect this to change in the near future.
OTOH, there is always Mac and M$ to stir up a little competition. I don't see them disappearing anytime soon (I am thinking a company with 50 billion in the bank will be around for a bit yet).
I would agree that most of the users that are currently using Linux or BSD or (insert generic alternative OS here) installed it themselves. I also know that M$ holds between 80% and 90% of the desktop market (depending on who you ask). So, yes, 99% is probably an inaccurate number, but I would bet that the true number is still over 75% of desktop users. This is because end users tend to be lazy (yes, I know there are exceptions, I am talking about trends). "Joe User" is going to use whatever his machine comes with, no questions asked, until he finds a reason to change his mind (virus, trojan, etc...).
My biggest point, however, was not the competence (or lack thereof) of the end user, but rather that most users don't know anything about hardware. This being the case, it is difficult to sell something that the end user can't try out before buying (i.e. computers with no OS installed). Consumers think of these things as appliances. Buy a computer and get online. Now. Not after screwing around for hours (days?) installing an OS.
I have been using Linux since '99 and I have never looked back. OTH, I don't think that Joe User is up to learning all that I have along the way.
Because, 99% of the people have *no* idea how to install an operating system. There has to be something there in order to persuade "Joe User" to buy a computer.
Except that the fines involved for the guilty party are high. How many sales does it take for a company to make up a $1500 loss? How about 500 of those losses?
I totally agree. My cell phone is not free. Are they going to reimburse me? Highly unlikely.
I am so sick of being a "demographic" and of being marketed to. Don't they realize that by doing this it only inflames me with regard to whatever bullshit they are selling? I go *OUT OF MY WAY* to avoid products that are sold in this manner. Fuck marketers and their respective companies.
You might be right. I was referring to the mention of HP and the sensors in their printers that determine whether or not the cartridge being used is in fact HPs or an aftermarket variety.
It is my understanding that the automobile industry tried exactly the same thing with regard to routine maintenance (If you did not get your oil changed at the manufacturers dealership, your warranty was void) and ended up getting in a heap of trouble for it.
I think you are absolutely right. A few years ago, I dumped $10000 USD into an MCSE program that was nights and weekends for 9 months. After spending two weeks worth (~25 hours) of classes covering licenses and licensing, I decided that I needed something else. At that time I had just discovered Mandrake 7.0 and Redhat 6.2. I did finally get my MCSE. Do you know what I tell my customers? I am in a better position to argue for Linux because I am knowledgable about M$
Nothing to see here, move along now.....
Slashdot Mirror
I know this is a little late, but from something that I read at groklaw.net it appears that there was many CDs of information submitted by SCO. The problem with them is that 46 (IIRC) CDs are of TIFF images of the code. Check out this article and search for tiff (being that that string is in the word "plaintiff" you will have to do it several times to get past the beginning briefs). To quote from one of the responses:
SCO's 122 CD's of Discovery Authored by: JohnGabriel on Saturday, December 06 2003 @ 06:21 PM EST
In an earlier thread, someone asked if the 122 CD's of SCO's discovery included the CD's of TIFF images.
The answer is yes.
From page 5 of IBM's first Memo In Support Of Motion To Compel (Document 45): "...on September 20, 2003, SCO made an initial production of 46 CDs containing over 900,000 pages of source code..."
A little quick math shows that each CD contained about 20,000 pages of source code. At approximately 700,000 KB per CD, each page would be about 35 KB in size. I'm sure we can all agree that in text form, a page of source code would be about 5 KB max. (80 bytes per line x 60 lines per page) and this would only be reached if every line were filled with blank charaters rather than returns at the end of the line.
This is probably Judge Welles asked about the "hundreds of thousands of pages of unusable text" in her questioning of Kevin McBride. Clearly, if SCO claims that they gave a hundred CD's of discovery more than IBM, but those CD's were in an unusable format, their claim of having delivered more discovery materials than IBM is disingenuous.
The judge may well have felt insulted by SCO's presumption that whe was too ignorant to know the difference between usable and non-usable discovery materials.
SCO may have dug an even deeper hole for themselves than we realized yesterday. Treating a judge as if she's stupid is not going to win them any points.
I would agree with you about the 5+ years thing. I guess to be accurate, one would also have to decide whether the Commodore/TI/Tandy etc computers were computers or video games. I had a Commodore 64 back in the day that I used to program BASIC programs. The rest of the family just plugged in the cartridges and joysticks. Also, to be honest, I never considered the Gameboys and such, but if you include them can you include cell-phones, pagers, etc that have games built in as console games, or are they computers (since they have to have operating systems)? Also, since Linux runs on the Playstation2 and the XBOX, does that make them computers? I believe Linux has even been run on one version or another of the old Sega machines.
I guess none of it really matters as that was not my point in my original post, but thanks for responding!
TheLinuxSRC
Not sure how my comment got modded down as a troll and yours did not.....
Anyway, I would agree with you under normal circumstances. Joe Consumer has no interest in what goes on underneath the hood (car, computer, whatever). However, the article (you did RTFA, right?) is about how OSS can help developing countries. My comment was derived directly from the parent posters comment - "The other major advantage of investing in Open Source is that the younger generation ( who are'nt into the commercial aspects of computing as yet ) grow up and learn within a framework that encourages choice and alternatives rather than constricting you into a predesignated thought process." In other words, he was referring to people who are learning about computers already. Now if you choose to not want to know what makes them tick, that is your option, but OSS promotes learning in that if you want to learn, there is alot of accurate documentation available for most popular packages that make up the various free operating systems. Unlike Microsoft who refuses to publish many features of their software outside the realm of Microsoft. Again, the choice is yours, do you want/need to know what makes computers tick?
"Why do PlayStations and such outsell PCs historically by orders of magnitude? " -- do you have a source on that? Unless you are referring to games in general, I find it hard to believe that console games outsell personal computers.
Great points. I have one to add regarding the younger generation. OSS promotes learning about how a computer actually works. This is diametrically opposed to what the MegaCorps want.
Just my $0.02, but keep in mind; I am an MCSE yet I have learned more about computers in the last five years that I have used Linux than the ~12 years using DOS and Windoze.
ext2ifs
Never underestimate the value that flash and pizzazz has on a desparate customer...
Did you mean disparate or desperate?
I am totally with you on that whole Dune thing...
Looks like troll.... Smells like troll....
Man, am I glad I didn't step in it!
Damn you !!!!! I just spilled beer on my keyboard.... Nice call out, hehehehe =)
isn't that what I just said??
kewl, thx
Totally off-topic, but is that "Vision Thing" in your sig in any way related to the old PsEMU Vison Thing?
I'm fairly certain it's not a kit that must be run as root to give you root access ;->
Actually, that is exactly what it is. It is a kit full of modified executables that hide the fact that a box has been rooted (i.e. 'ps' that does not show a trojan running or 'netstat' that hides connections on certain ports or certain IP addresses). It may also contain trojans, backdoors etc... But in order to get it installed, you have to "root the box" first.... unless everything on the box is accessible to all....
What happens when Free software conquers all and all the software companies are put out of business, letting their programmers go?
This cannot happen. Hardware companies will continue to make hardware improvements (not to mention architecture changes) and software will need to be written to address these changes. Not to mention, very little software is "complete" right now (ask any developer if any project they had written is complete -- they can all use improvement I'll wager). I don't expect this to change in the near future.
OTOH, there is always Mac and M$ to stir up a little competition. I don't see them disappearing anytime soon (I am thinking a company with 50 billion in the bank will be around for a bit yet).
I would agree that most of the users that are currently using Linux or BSD or (insert generic alternative OS here) installed it themselves. I also know that M$ holds between 80% and 90% of the desktop market (depending on who you ask). So, yes, 99% is probably an inaccurate number, but I would bet that the true number is still over 75% of desktop users. This is because end users tend to be lazy (yes, I know there are exceptions, I am talking about trends). "Joe User" is going to use whatever his machine comes with, no questions asked, until he finds a reason to change his mind (virus, trojan, etc...).
My biggest point, however, was not the competence (or lack thereof) of the end user, but rather that most users don't know anything about hardware. This being the case, it is difficult to sell something that the end user can't try out before buying (i.e. computers with no OS installed). Consumers think of these things as appliances. Buy a computer and get online. Now. Not after screwing around for hours (days?) installing an OS.
I have been using Linux since '99 and I have never looked back. OTH, I don't think that Joe User is up to learning all that I have along the way.
Just my $0.02
Because, 99% of the people have *no* idea how to install an operating system. There has to be something there in order to persuade "Joe User" to buy a computer.
The difference is that you put a CD in the tray to do all of those things. They did not happen when you logged into your ISP
Except that the fines involved for the guilty party are high. How many sales does it take for a company to make up a $1500 loss? How about 500 of those losses?
I totally agree. My cell phone is not free. Are they going to reimburse me? Highly unlikely.
I am so sick of being a "demographic" and of being marketed to. Don't they realize that by doing this it only inflames me with regard to whatever bullshit they are selling? I go *OUT OF MY WAY* to avoid products that are sold in this manner. Fuck marketers and their respective companies.
And no, this is not meant as a troll.
You might be right. I was referring to the mention of HP and the sensors in their printers that determine whether or not the cartridge being used is in fact HPs or an aftermarket variety.
It is my understanding that the automobile industry tried exactly the same thing with regard to routine maintenance (If you did not get your oil changed at the manufacturers dealership, your warranty was void) and ended up getting in a heap of trouble for it.
Is this not exactly the same thing?
I totally agree with you. Not the old L0pht crew for sure.
Now, my question. After following the link to the management team, I have to ask, what the hell is a chief people officer??
File sharing is the only reason to have broadband.
I don't know about you guys, but I download Linux isos all the time with my broadband. I like trying the new distros....
PostgreSQL has just open-sourced replication software as well....
www.pgsql.com
I grew up poor... I can't afford a sig....
I think you are absolutely right. A few years ago, I dumped $10000 USD into an MCSE program that was nights and weekends for 9 months. After spending two weeks worth (~25 hours) of classes covering licenses and licensing, I decided that I needed something else. At that time I had just discovered Mandrake 7.0 and Redhat 6.2. I did finally get my MCSE. Do you know what I tell my customers? I am in a better position to argue for Linux because I am knowledgable about M$ Nothing to see here, move along now.....