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Microsoft to Build High School in Philadelphia, PA
LynchMan writes "According to the The Philadelphia Inquirer, Philadelphia is too be the home of a Microsoft funded High School. While having an inner city public school with a large tech fund ($46 Million) will be a great asset to those young students interested in technology, is the Philadelphia School District selling out to Microsoft really the only way to achieve this? Especially with all of the negative press that Microsoft has had recently, is this an attempt to do some good and help out those who cannot afford private school? Or is Microsoft just making sure that they secure themselves another generation of coders/admins/users? This being the first school of it's kind, will a Microsoft high school be coming to a town near you?" This looks very much like the Microsoft buses that toured from school to school a couple years back, but much larger and much more stationary.
Little billy... report to the head sysop!
There is no sanctuary. There is no sanctuary. SHUT UP! There is no shut up. There is no shut up.
How could anyone have any question about this being a good thing? Microsoft is not building the school nor is it paying for the school to be built. The local school board is building it and MS is contributing technology and services to the school to see what happens to education when the school is afforded every technological luxury possible. This is an experiment! If afterwards the students bought MS products for themselves, so what, they are likely to anyway. If some of the students went on to be programmers and favored the Windows OS and Visual Studio, so what, it is already likely. Coke and Pepsi already give money to schools to put in only their product. Aside from the questions of health, do we cry out the these children's minds have been warped in the decision of who to favor in the cola wars? No.
If it was not for Microsoft this school would still be built, it just wouldn't have the technology.
I have the suspicion that those who object to this would think it would be the coolest thing if RedHat decided to help a school become a pure Linux organization, with a Zarus PDA for every child.
Don't tell your parents what the after-school project is about...
1. Their network will go down when the next worm appears
2. All kids will have an irrational hatred for penguins.
3. Apple? Who?
If Microsoft builds it it can't be secure! Will the school even bother to put locks on the doors? Probably but only on the front ones, they'll just leave a open garage door on the back
I thought many other US Schools were sponsored by soft drink companies, by sports-goods companies, etc.
I heard of a case where a kid at a Pepsi-School was sent home after drinking a Coke.
Perhaps the same will happen with Linux and Mac OS X users at Microsoft School.
Article about Corporate Coke here.
Join the Free Software Foundation
Pink Floyd would have a field day with this. Except in this case, the giant meat grinder would be an NT server from hell!
is the Philadelphia School District selling out to Microsoft really the only way to achieve this?
;)
Maybe they should talk to SCO or VA Linux..
Sounds like they're putting the kids on a fast track for an MCSE.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
I wonder if Apple will sell them computers : )
I'm sure Microsoft gets something out of this, like tax breaks, free beta testing etc, but that really isn't the point. Philadelphia schools are about the most missmanaged, poor schools in the country, They're constantly low on funds despite paying about half as much per student as the surrounding suburbian schools. The technology situatuation is usually a computer for every few classes, and its 5 years old. This is most likely to become one of the better if not best schools in the district. But if some of this 46million doesnt go to support and training of the students and teachers, its gonna be money that was wasted.
I can see this coming from a mile away. now, MS will have new virus being created that cause STD on our kids rather than tds on the computers :)
Please, think of the children.
"Why do you people always assume the worst?"
I think it's called "experience."
KFG
Microsoft just making sure that they secure themselves another generation of coders/admins/users?
:-). Its just a PR stunt IMHO. MS Can throw 50M$ at anything they want. Hell, that's just a million XBoxes sold at 50$ loss.
No. If they wanted that, they would build a school in India (next to the condoms factory
When will I end this grieving ? When will my future begin ?
The biggest barrier with a school like this is the incredible cost of keeping it state-of-the-art. The budget will have to be very high and have a swap-out plan to bring in faster systems and the latest software. If the money and/or support for such and upgrade plan is there, it can survive. However, some politician will probably see this as a pork barrel for some other politician and leave the school in some sort of "Beta version."
I for one could careless about who's footing the bill? Whether or not the school creates loyal MS users is irrelevant in the face of providing a quality education.
This concept of corporate ownerships of what is currently public is taken to logical extreams (with the consequences you might expect) in this book: Jennifer Government by Max Barry.
A bloody good read, highly recommended...
As the Microsoft user base dwindles it will be important to keep a well trained core of people who can administer these legacy systems.
change 2 words in the last sentence and it becomes :
This looks very much like the Microsoft CEO that toured from government to government a couple years back, but much larger and much more stationary.
yeah! It's Steve Ballmer! (compared to Bill Gates)
Perhaps they can build a few here in Florida, too.
At least the students won't get fat from eating *this* corporate sponsors products.
I for one welcome our new Microsoft ove... oh... wait.
davejenkins.com |
Now, if they were plunking a school in a suburb that was doing just fine without them, I'd question their motives. But, in this case, I'd have to think this is at best, altruism on Microsoft's part, or at worst, advertising money well spent.
Religion is the opium of the people. Evolution is the opium of scientists.
So if Apple builds a school it's OK. If Microsoft builds a schook it's BAD.
Get over it.
At least some people have a better chance at getting a better education.
Any corporation who funds an entire new school, or part of a public school is not a good idea. I would say it is ok to have a company DONATE money or resources to a public entity, but not to let them have any influence on the desicions that are made at the institution.
Microsoft has a record of using 'donations' and grants to its complete benefit, not the benefit of the people they are donating to. Microsoft is different than other companies in that it does it so blatently.
http://github.com/gbook/nidb
Now if only MS could fix our Hockey team...
Mmmmmmm...Bionic Flyers.
Sig it.
I'll be awaiting Microsoft High School Service Pack 2..
I believe its tentativly expected to fix a few bugs (Termites and Wasp infestations in the ceiling)..
Oh and it will replace a few corrupt bricks..
-- Jim.
-- If at first you don't succeed, lie!
Won't they have to patch and reboot the teachers weekly? How often will the faculty BSOD? You know someone was going to say it...
Anyway you can run everything with Windows you can do in Unix with the write software installed. Perl, apache, and alot of other goodies are available.
Students do not need to be left behind and I hate microsoft but lets try to make lemons out of lemonade here.
http://saveie6.com/
Or is Microsoft just making sure that they secure themselves another generation of coders/admins/users?
:)
My entire life of high school is all Microsoft, but it doesn't make me less of a Linux geek.
Teenagers can learn and adapt to new things quickly. If MS really wants to buy coders, establish a MS University. I know they can afford it.
At least in my experience, the more one uses Microsoft products, the more one does not want to ever use any again. If we force kids to use nothing but Windows for 4 years, surely they will look for an alternative the moment the opportunity arises.
Comon, editors, let's use the proper grammar, at least when talking about schools! To vs Too vs Two.
"is the Philadelphia School District selling out to Microsoft really the only way to achieve this?"
i sure wish my local district had the chance to sell out for $40+ million dollars.
"As a writer / novelist you might want to spellcheck your sig.
"experience?!" What crap! Try "marketing, monopoly, etc."
So, MS builds one school. How many others are there? How many schools have been audited by M$? How many schools have paid how many millions of dollars to M$ over the past 10 years? (of which, conservative estimates put it at 80 cents of every dollar is pure profit for M$). Need I go on?
Like every other corporation on the face of the planet, they don't blink unless (they think) it's in their best interests.
I hate it when people "support"(buy from) a corporation because they get warm fuzzies from that company "supporting"(tossing a measly hundredth or thousandth of a percent of their profits to) a cause. Does BMW give a crap about breast cancer? No. Like all the other corporations that support "breast cancer research", they're basically just looking to get women to buy stuff from them.
"Buy ________, we support ______ by donating* to the __________ foundation of America!"
(*1/10th of a percent of the net profit of this product, minus taxes, executive bonuses, kickbacks, and of course some good old fashioned book cooking)
Please help metamoderate.
I sure hope they intend on having other operating systems in the school other than Windows. The key to having marketable IT skills is diversity.
From a hardware standpoint, know how computers work and all of the meta layers of state machines and computers (logic gates, microcode, registers, memory access, and functions of various CPUs, operating systems, applications, and how all of the above is programmed)
From a programming standpoint, know multiple languages and concepts (assembler vs. lisp vs. C vs. perl for example)
From an OS standpoint, know how to get around on any machine (Linux, OSX, BSD, Windows). Have emulators of other OS's that are not as popular.
From a project standpoint, know how to integrate any and all of the above.
Our future computer scientists deserve no less.
Lodragan Draoidh
The more you explain it, the more I don't understand it. - Mark Twain
Your comment is pretty close to reality ... during Blaster about 1/3rd of the city of Philadelphia's computers were down.
Philly has terrible schools because the teachers unions have killed off every reform. Edison went in to fix the thing and they did everything they could to cause it to fail. The schools are bad because the people running them are corrupt and inept. FYI, Washington, DC, schools spend by far the most money per student of any schools in the nation and have the worst results, all because of corruption.
Fact is, this is just more Corporate takeover of what used to be a terrific publicly funded educational system. We used to pay taxes, and a lot of that tax money went to educate people somewhat equally. But with corporate interests running schools, PRIVATE interests are dictating who is allowed an education, PRIVATE interests are dictating the type and method of education the kids are getting, and PRIVATE interests are dictating what the subject matter and curriculea will be. This is fascism. This is what the "new World Order" is all about. This does not serve the American people, it serves only private corporate organizations whose ideologies and interests may be in direct conflict with the US Constitution, and the rule of law.
Heil Hitler, Corporate nationalist nazis, my gun is loaded.
Stupid Humans.....
putting a $ in MS doesn't make your comment any more insightful or you any less than a kiddie loser.
Hmm... Software Engineering taught by Dr. Watson ....The school nurse is Rita McAfee....
School colors are navy blue with white lettering.. hmmmm..
-B
I have the sneeking suspicion that there will be a resident worm on the network rigged to deny access or even destroy any and all systems running any sort of non-Micro$oft kernel (read: Linux, unix, BSD, etc etc etc).
the network will be slow and bloated with 5 users
the sysadmins will not be versed in proper best practices
(the sysadmin at my school comes from a long mac background (read: no concept of file permissions, user security, etc), has a 6 character, word-based superuser password for all servers, NAS devices, etc, and doesn't know how to logout/lock a workstation ESPECIALLY the Domain Controller's console which, BTW is left in the open in a room where any number of people can get to, all teacher's user acct passwords are their last name... and they call the stuff 'secure'.), worse, the 'other' techy, who supposidly knows M$ does the same damn thing.
If M$ teaches these kids anything, it's that there is no such thing as security (i have yet to see any sysadmin/techy aside from myself teach users to LOCK YOUR WORKSTATION when they go AFK)
bad, very bad, just another generation of users who, after being asked their login password (only when i'm sitting at their console, needing to login) they reply "I THINK my password is... (insert last name here)" oy.
Logistical Chaos Officer http://www.slagg.org - LAN Gaming in Sarasota FL,USA
.. after so much was given away. See http://www.savephillyschools.org/money/
Ah, they're just using the patented HubbardTech to apply LearnTech to students.
"Ms Hoover... I don't see why the GPL is viral. The argument makes no sense!"
"Well, Jimmy, that's because there is a word in B. Henry Gates' lecture that you don't understand. Go use WordClearTech until you find it. The rest of you: class dismissed because a worm has crashed the LAN again."
There are so many things that schools need more of... dicipline, respect, reasons to have respect, learning to learn, learning to like to learn, reading, math... Will computers give the kids this?
Gee, how did we ever survive school without computers? I feel like I need to do it over again, and get it right...
"The district was informed that without the most recent service packs, they were vulnerable to roof collapses. This issue has been documented months ago," said a Microsoft spokesperson who wished to remain anonymous. "We fixed the problem and informed our customers. We can't be expected to do any more."
The collapse was traced to the percentage of students wearing red shorts being about 31%. Unpatched versions of the gymnasium are designed for no more than 24% red shorts. According to Microsoft, newer versions of the gymnasium do not suffer from the red shorts vulnerability.
Never mind worms, I've been getting hit *hard* by crap from a subscriber here for days...
- _ The copper bosses killed you, Joe. I never died, said he.
"This school has performed an illigal operation of type #592FC347A5 and needs to be rebuilt"
You realise if they do actually make running anything other than run Microsoft products against the rules, kids are more likely to disobey. Most kids are rebellious, and they like to stand out, to be different.
:p.
To be l33t.
I feel l33t because I'm the only person who uses linux in the whole school (sysadmins included)
On another note, our school would greatly benefit from ANY sort out IT help. Either they don't subnet or have good bridges. When a class logs on the Novell-based network, the whole network goes to pieces.
It's not every day you walk down to the helpdesk and see half the staff hunt-and-pecking with two fingers.
Founder of Mirror Moon - Tsukihime Game Trans
Bill Gates can build all the schools he wants to and Linux can't for one reason and one reason only: Windows makes an offer. Bill and Melinda have built a foundation with grants galore for the implementation of the Windows system. Whether you see it as gifting technology to the masses or corrupting the youth to the product, the point remains that public schools would gladly take the technology no matter who offers it. And these days, it's not as though anyone in the non-Windows world is giving the schools a whole lot of alternatives.
The solution: quit complaining about the philathropic efforts of Windows and start an Open Source Foundation. Have an endowed fund and accept grant applications. Built it. They will come.
Mr. Doe I'm sorry to say that your son's report "What Microsoft Applications I Ran This Summer" was not graded because our systems can't read old Word files anymore. Please upgrade to a newer version of MS Word at home and resubmit your son's work for grading before the next semester.
If you outlaw the law, only criminals will have laws
"Experience is what you get...
Be nice to people on the way up. You will meet them again on your way down!
Many, if not most, of us here cut our teeth on MS operating systems. They're good trainers and good toys. We were also bright enough to realize that there were some serious flaws there, and recognized a good/better thing when we saw it in Linux, MacOS, BSD, etc.
:)
Besides, most of us were introduced to Steinbeck in High School too, and who here still reads him?
The man just decided to fund a high school. What's wrong with that? It seems some people will find fault with *anything* bill does. Give the man some credit.
See what nice guys those gangsters turned out to be? Sure, they knock off businesses and rub out people now and then, but they sure do throw nifty block parties and now they are even helping pay for the new school. How can anyone hate them?
Microsoft is hated for good reason (many of 'em), even if they occasionally decide to do a good PR turn to make themselves look decent and caring.
talk about creating another garmeNT disstricked? john would be proud.
these guise are everywhere?
yikes. consult with/trust in yOUR creator. vote with yOUR wallet. that's the spirit. the daze of the greed/fear based phonIE payper liesense ?pr? ?firm? scriptdead georgewellian fuddite stock markup execrable, is WANing into coolapps. none too soon for most of US.
I don't see a long line of philanthropic entities lineing up to provide competing service.
As much as the communal voice of Slashdot wants to make Microsoft out to be the Great Satan (tm), they DO add positively to our society. (Do you really think those extremely cheap hardware options you have would be there without M$?)
"Draco dormiens nunquam titillandus."
Will the pupils be safe if it crashes? Will it still take 5 minutes to boot up the school each morning? Theres a Linux school down the road thats been running for 10 years without crashing..
"You lied to me! There is a Swansea!"
I don't see that Microsoft's actions have to do so much with turning the kids of this one school into "lifetime" Microsoft customers; instead, I think this is a research lab designed to discover how to monopolize the education market, rooting out Apple and squashing Linux. The goal is to turn all the kids everywhere into lifetime customers.
What Microsoft gets in the deal, from sending in their "consultants," is data and insight into how they can push technology in and develop new technology for schools, all the while appearing "altruistic."
This is pure PR and R&D -- nothing more.
quiquid id est, timeo puellas et oscula dantes.
That's just what the IT industry needs, a bunch of teenage paper certs...
A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it. -- Einstein
Started brainwashing the children about jews when they were in school.
Electronic Music Made Using Linux http://soundcloud.com/polyp
Getting an education is the important thing. Yes, in a perfect world we would love the kids to cut their teeth on high end machines running a high end OS and follow that up with a few years at MIT.
BUT....
Way back when I went to school, Apple was the driving force. Schools had Apple computers, that was a given. So I learned all the geeky computer stuff on an Apple II and a Franklin.
Was Apple my first computer purchase?
Hell no! When I finally had my first real job I was watching the money. IBM clones were cheaper and more were being sold. That would mean that somone with skills on IBM clones would make more money (or so I reasoned).
The point is that if Microsoft wants to start building schools, we should encourage that. Quit looking for the spook behind every curtain. Education is a good thing. Not every graduate of these schools will be a Microsoft zealot, but everyone of them will be educated.....and that makes our society better.
. Quit playing Monopoly with Bill. Switch to one of many non-Microsoft products today.
Can you say 'Hellgate'?
"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." -- Goethe
- anyone who has seen Philly in the last 40 years, especially north of Broad St. knows it is a wasteland... there is no tax base... all taxpayers fled to the burbs or NJ... (there are some pockets of 'gentrification' downtown)...
- so if M$ wants to blow $47m, go right ahead...
Sorry slightly OT...
But its beyond comprehension that soft drink vending machines are allowed at schools, let alone soft drink companies being school sponsors.
Its a catastrophe for the health situation among teenagers.
1. Those kids are a bunch of bad apples.
2. Joey, stop playing with worms!
3. Bobby broke some windows with his baseball.
4. Penguins live on the north pole.
Got which words I'm talking about?
I can't even begin to imagine how students would be taught to think in data processing classes. Do they still have those? Or are they called something else now? (Dating myself a bit here.)
I guess for most people who read slashdot the choice of OS is just a little more important than the selection of your favourite caffeinated brown sugar drink.
I don't need a signature.
...will it run linux?
*ducks for cover*
Go to your local book shop and read chapter 4 of Naomi Klein's No Logo; in it she describes the myriad ways in which corporations have infiltrated schools. In that context, this is a very logical next step.
it'll be easy to get into!
http://www.thestreet.com/comment/keyhole/774791.ht ml
Scroll down for Paul Allen reference
http://www.savephillyschools.org/edisonwatch/
$ strings FTP.EXE | grep Copyright
@(#) Copyright (c) 1983 The Regents of the University of California.
come on everyone, this will have a good result - MS Funzo 2007!
This looks very much like the Microsoft buses that toured from school to school a couple years back, but much larger and much more stationary.
A school that's much larger and more stationary than a bus?!?!?! Who woulda thunk it???
I wish I could have gone to this school -- even if it is in the inner city (suburbian myself :).
My favorite days were those closed school snow days. I guess they'll be getting used to crash days...
Well I'd really start worrying when they've
built a robot policeman and take over the
police force....a different type of PC
(as we Brits also refer to coppers).
Perhaps that would be a joint project with the RIAA?
R*
Professor Karmadillo Songs of Science
When you tell everyone that you go to Ctrl+Alt+Del HS. :-}
--- I wish I could hear the soundtrack to my life. That way I'd know when to duck.
Hm. Odd, that seems a bit early. I didn't start using Coke in Education until at _least_ freshman year of college.
--- What
This is a good thing: Remember how much you hated school? well now the kids will think of Microsoft when they think of school!
:P
I wonder if reading slashdot or talking about linux will be banned?
This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
While its certainly a good idea to have kids exposed and trained to use Linux and other oses at a young age, people must consider the rebellion factor. A lot of kids will hate whatever the school endorses. Considering this is an inner city school, I would just be happy that they are getting the money.
I hope they run this school the right way. A lot of charter schools are poorly funded. They hire young teachers who'll work for less money and they don't hire enough faculty to handle the students. Charter schools can be very successful if run the right way, let's just hope Microsoft does something extraordinary with this opportunity. Really, more corporations should be doing this and the ones who already do, should do it more often.
http://www.askthevoid.com
DimeStorePhilosoph3r writes "According to the Peoples Linux Daily, a worker at Microsoft was reported to give a server at Sally's Bar and Grill a "nice tip". While it's nice that this employee was generous, do we really want Microsoft's hand in food service gratuity? Is this another step in the M$ sponsored take over of the worlds restaurant market? Is the money even usable? IMHO, I think not." This seems very similar to the takeover of birthday music by Irving Berlin.
All your students are belong to Microsoft
- Proofs of Sturgeon's Law Delivered Daily -
Here is the first link from Google on the subject:
http://www.noveltynet.org/content/paranormal/www.p arascope.com/articles/cnews/980325.htm
I very strongly recommend that everyone read "No Logo". Brands in education is a problem.
--
Simon
Don't be surprised. That's not really appreciated in USA. Exercise your best blase face.
And don't worry! There's also a hamburger university.
Take this opportunity to learn from other people's culture.
I hadn't the slightest objection to his spending his time planning massacres for the bourgeoisie... (P.G. Wodehouse)
I doubt very much any of the measures taken will ensure a "quality education." I dont know about the high schools you went to, or if you are too old to know how technology is really being used in schools today.
I was class of 99, and when I was in high school not a single teacher actually knew how to use the technology to provide a better education. In fact I'd say teachers who relied on technology to keep their classes 'interesting' failed to educate at all. Many classes ended up with redundant tutorials on using popular search engines and using MS office. I probably learned each of these things twice a semester in any given set of classes. Ultimately, I ended up learning nothing of new technology and was given long periods of time to finish ridiculously small projects (many students who didn't understand powerpoint for example needed more time to prepare a presentation I guess...).
It seems many people I talk to who have recently graduated high school or are still in high school are experencing the same things. Maybe things are changing, maybe some people have had better experiences (if so please share them), but I dont really think technology these days is actually improving education, its distracting from it.
No amount of computers will replace the education value of a good text book and a good teacher, unless that teacher knows how to use it to actually improve the presentation of the material, or uses it to present material that can't be presented otherwise (and I can't even think of an example of the latter).
I can't think of a good sig...
According to the article, MS is not donating money. Philly is building 11 new high schools, each costing about $46M. They asked MS to partner with them on this one, to donate consulting services. MS is going to help design an electronic school; they're not going to be buying the school, or even the computers. There isn't even an indication that MS will be "donating" software!
U.S. Public schools are in a dire need of funding. If the government can't do it, then maybe corporations should step in and take over. Most schools in California (where I went to HS) are at least 50 years old, many of them behind code, and almost all of them lacking any valuable technology. MS building its own high school does indeed have a motive, but even then, this may be a good thing for the kids. Donations often get trimmed in bureaucratic bs, anyway.
A blog like any other.
Wouldn't they be building a "boot camp" then?
what is wrong with you people!!!
this is a great thing that MS is doing. a school that will take the bright lights of the district and teach them technology, higher level math, higher level science, etc.
this is a great idea.
I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
Actually I do not understand why so many of you are making jokes about it...
Are you aware about the consequences?
Take a minute and think about it before writing brainless comments.
Young people are manipulated, and this is not fun.
Of course it's not just a PR stunt - MS wants to have some PRO MS minded people when they finished school / university. People that will influence the decision or decide someday whether a MS product will be given preference.
Those of you in the Computer programming classes will get to use your terminals to page through COBOL and Assembly Abends. We've installed a brand new OS/390 Mainframe and robotic tape library for your school. And to get you up to date with the rest of the business world we've given you a copy of DB2 Content Manager Enterprise Portal Information Integrator On Demand version 8.2 (Formerly called Business Information Portal for Enterprise DB2 Content Integration) Enjoy!
Conserve Oil, Recycle, Boycott Walmart
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Is it a real tech fund that they could use to buy decent hardware or will it be a tax write off by printing licenses? Or is it just marketing?
Like all major cities, Philadelphia suffers from a large population with a declining property tax base as middle class people move to the suburbs.
I may not be entirely comfortable with Microsoft running a school, but right now, Philadelphia is in such rough shape that any help will do.
This is my sig.
Didn't Microsoft threaten to sue the Philly school system for licensing issues. I would swear that I read that. If so, isn't it ironic that MS is going to be the driving force behind the OS/Office Suite that Philly students are going to learn to use. It would be like the RIAA telling a university - "Hey, we're going to sure you for letting your students download music...but we might let you off. By the way, we have this cool new campus-oriented web-based music-selling software you might want to look at."
If you mod me down, I shall become less powerful than you could possibly imagine.
Since the govern seems to give a rats ass about education, I for one am glad they are funding/supporting a school. After all, it's about time MS give back to the community which it so blatantly abused over the last decade. At least with microsoft we know exactly where they stand. With a politician, it's all hidden behind smoke and mirrors.
They announced this on the radio this morning (yes, I live in the Philly area) and they said it would run $700 Million. There is NO WAY that Philly has this kind of dough, and I definitely don't see Harrisburg footing this (let's just say that people like me in Delaware County would fall on our swords before footing the bill for Philadelphia County's problems). It has to be (at least mostly) coming from Microsoft. Two things to take into consideration: The election for mayor is this year, not next year, and it's a really close race. There is a decent chance John Street might not get re-elected, and this would definitely be a feather in his cap. Not saying that this is the case here, but it's a possibility. Let's just say that if I were mayor, I'd jump at the chance for a deal like this, especially if the city isn't paying for it. Te truth is that Microsoft *does* have an image problem. With all the security flaws and the little antitrust thing, as well as WPA and Licensing 6.0, let's just say that people aren't exactly feeling peachy about them right now. Something like this, beneficial as it definitely is to kids, is still a great PR move. I don't think it's wrong to say that there's an ulterior motive at work here. I can just see it now: "Buy Microsoft. For the children." (Yes, it's sarcastic, but don't think for a minute that Microsoft, like every company, doesn't have marketing droids).
Am I the only one who sees this as sort of a way to change the negative PR M$ has been getting recently? I'll tell you what the Philly School District is after: free stuff. The school buildings are all falling down, the teachers are incredibly untrained when it comes to computers, the budget is out of uncontrol because while the teachers are getting raises they are not held to any sort of accountability standards (they are quite highly paid in this area) and they can't seem to figure out a way to control the kids. So, in steps M$ to say "hey, we have seen that you are selling off alot of schools to become charter schools, so can't we jump in?". This is a good thing but also a bad thing. You know they make an assload of cash off site licenses from the S.D, and this gives them an opportunity to closer watch to see if they can audit for even more cash. Even Coke and Pepsi are getting pressure to stop selling soda in schools (ever have to teach a kid who just pounded a pepsi big slam? I have. It's not pretty.) and are moving to juices and bottled waters. Completely sponsored schools are something to be slightly afraid of. Yeah, it's great that M$ seems to be playing philanthropist, but what are the motivations? Besides, there is already a high school for science and tech, George Washington Carver. However, in this election time, I am sure that our whore-ish mayor, John "How about I just firebomb my opponent's office" (true story!) Street will put this in his ads.
While having an inner city public school with a large tech fund ($46 Million) will be a great asset to those young students interested in technology, is the Philadelphia School District selling out to Microsoft really the only way to achieve this?
Under the current president, yes.
But this is a good thing. Inner city high schools rarely have enough textbooks for everyone. A $46 million tech budget (and I'm assuming all of the other necessities of a high school) is a good thing, and the fact that it's coming from people we don't particularly like doesn't matter. It's not like the students have to sign a contract disavowing OSS. Yes, the computers inside will be running Microsoft. That's probably a good thing since that's what high school students will encounter in the workplace, especially in the near future.
HI, MY NAME IS ISAAC.
You did you banking at the Ford bank. You went to the Ford corner shop. You bought your gas from the Ford gas station. You kids went to the Ford school.
How would you like to fail today?
Nobody particularly likes the guy, but thanks for the books. Next, our friend Bill will be giving out shiney new dimes on streetcorners.
.. in the "know your enemy" sessions, of course!
I hear the school has an extra basement for all of their Microsoft licenses. After all, it's cheaper to build it than to fail in the license audit.
Antti S. Brax - Old school - http://www.iki.fi/asb/
Well, we certainly know that the sandboxes on the playground will be pretty shabby...
Stop by my site where I write about ERP systems & more
...that the corporate world has stepped up to the plate and started contributing to the education of children.
the government has been falling behind on this year after year and in some areas of the inner city many children have zero access to computers and technology.
why must it be that the only way to get a decent education from K-12 is to pay for it and go to a private school?
>This looks very much like the Microsoft buses that toured from school to school a couple years back, but much larger and much more stationary.
Much MORE stationary? I'm guessing, if they were Microsoft buses, they were already pretty stationary . . .
Philadelphia has been trying this experiment for a few years now. Their public schools were so poorly run that they decided to try having them run by a private company. Without having read the article, I would assume that M$ is just footing the bill.
Heh. I'd like to "foot the Bill" too.
Philadelphia is too be the home of a Microsoft funded High School
Yeah we can already see Microsoft Grammer at work here. (to/too/two ignorance)
Will they be the Longhorns? Windows? Desktops? Gateses?
In M$CHOOL
Classes are taught by a giant paper clip
Sometimes te paper clip will explode, but it will reappear some minutes later
Sometimes the whole school will explode
You dont pay by student, you pay to sit
No one would see any security personnel. If you ask, they would say " if you could see them, then it wouldnt be safe"
In Linux
The school is build by the children, with home-made items.
Penguins teach the students
Teachers use pipes to talk to one another
No one pays anything
how long until
Whether you think this is a "good(tm)" or "bad(tm)" thing, I think it's important to realize that Microsoft, or more accurately, the individuals at Microsoft, have the right to spend their money in any legal way they choose. If it is so ethically offensive to some, they should counter not by saying Microsoft (and the kids) should be punished, but by doing the same or better themselves. Where's the hoard of geeks raising $100 mil for schools?
I used to attend a high school in North Carolina that tried the whole "Technology-centric School" thing and here is what I saw. Everything started out fine, we had a school wide network, a PC for every two students, web access and email for all, and enough server space to cover our collective file storage needs. After the school opened, things went down hill. Our net admin was a complete dolt. He managed to melt our main authentication server, causing a school wide network outage for almost two weeks. Our network was plagued with macro viruses, hackers, and faulty hardware. Ninety percent of the staff was completely incompetent when dealing with all the glitzy technology thrown in their face, and the turnover rate was horrendous due to technology frustrations. It seems public school teachers don't get paid enough to deal with technology inept PHBs. By my senior year the school computers, which were more often than not the same computers that were there when the school first opened five years prior, had become so overloaded that they were practically unusable. To add insult to injury, the entire school shared a single T1 line. During peak hours, internet access screeched to a halt.
If it actually goes to helping the most disadvantaged students, where it would be the most difficult to make succesful, I'd applaud the effort.
If it goes to mostly middle class and upper middle class students, then I'd have to view it as simply a further corporatization of the public schools.
I'd love to see a follow up on this in three years.
It's not wasting time, I'm educating myself.
If this school generates graduates who understand how computers work, how informaiton is used & flows, how to apply technology to real world problems and sound project and diagnostic skills plus the usual math/reading/writing/social studies, this is great.
If on the other hand, students simply learn to use applications like PowerPoint, Excel, Word and Publisher, it's a waste. That's what most schools do today.
-- $G
Industrial baron Andrew Carnegie built libraries. Now Microsoft is funding a school. If there's a pattern here, it's one we should want to see extended.
"We reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals." --The American President (20.1.2009)
"is Microsoft just making sure that they secure themselves another generation of coders/admins/users?"
Yes, this is Microsoft trying to pounce on the amazing stream of expert and influential coders, admins and users that are pouring out of inner city Philadelphia.
On a more serious note, you can say what you will about Microsoft's posturing and tax writeoffs, but what is the open source movement doing for underprivileged inner city youth? Sure, we can offer them free software but it's useless to them without the knowledge to use it and the hardware to run it.
In all matters of opinion, our adversaries are insane. -Oscar Wilde
And they're damn near the worst on the planet.
And what's so damn special about a "technology education"? Is learning that alt-F4 is a shortcut to shut down an app an "education"?
from the article
"Microsoft came here because we asked, simple as that," Vallas said.
This pretty much shoots down this comment made by Mr. Neal.
Or is Microsoft just making sure that they secure themselves another generation of coders/admins/users?
Please read the article yourself before making such comments.
This can only be a good thing. Maybe our high school students will learn that there is more to computers and the internet than irc leeching, AIM and Kazaa.
It was fantastic the first year. New computers, servers, modem banks, everything a high school loser could ever hope for! But then IBM cut funding, leaving this little rural community footing the bill.
I kid you not, the next year, the school was so strapped for cash, students were required to bring their own toilet paper to school with them!
Sure, it good for some publicity photographs and it gets Micro$oft on Slashdot for something POSITIVE for a change, but will M$ continue to pour cash into the school, or will the tide turn when the paint dries?
:wq
as someone that works for a nonprofit that puts computers in west philadelphia schools i think this is a good thing. there are so many kids that want to learn more about technology but they just don't have the resources in school.
Teaching young people to lie, cheat and steal to get to the top of every ladder anywhere....and then get sued for it...
"They will be in an advisory capacity. We're still running the school," said Ellen Savitz, the district's chief development officer. "There's no fear of a corporation somehow overtaking the educational focus."
Well, I for one am HAPPY that Microsoft, through their completely benign efforts, will help push the technology direction of this school. Thank goodness, I say!
So, there will be no restrictions against running machines with other O/S's on them? No problems with students handing in presentations on say KPresenter or KWord, Open Office, or just plain HTML.
This is not even touching upon the complete lack of security around wireless protocols upon which confidential student information may be moving.
I certainly hope that MS's role remains consultative, and that they don't try and coerce or blackmail the school into the exclusive use of certain MS-centric solutions for the Student learning enviornments. If it were my kid, I would want them to learn about all kinds computers, not just the ones that run Windows.
Even if all of the computers were running Windows (possible), then the kids should still be exposed to non-MS products for using and programming computers. Give them the chance now to see that there are choices.
Everytime a article is posted about MS,
the average poster drops about 20 IQ points and all objectivity is lost.
The real stuff MS needs to be slammed about is lost in all this noise. Reminds of a story about a boy and a wolf...
I cant really say anything bad about them building a school, for once they seem to be doing something good.
I just hope the school turns out to be more than some kinda marketing project and actually help kids
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
Their corporate symbol should be the Jolly Roger.
1. Those who say the name of any open source project in any flattering matter will be suspended on the first offense, and on the second expelled.
2. Anybody who mods their xbox will be expelled.
3. Any photos of Linus Torvalds that are not unflattering will be confescated and burned.
4. All are required to have a picture of our lord and master Bill Gates in their locker.
5. You all love blue screens.
Support Israeli punk bands. Man Alive.
The original poster was defending Microsoft by pointing out some good they were doing, and wondering why people were still showing hatred for them. I took his words and slightly modified them to show how people sometimes say the exact same thing about Mafia members. Look at the good they are doing, they cry! But those who have suffered at their hands do not care about those nice block parties and fireworks shows they throw. They remember all the bad things that are done. And that is why Microsoft is hated.
That isn't flamebait. That is a legitimate, on-target opinion that sought to answer the original posters question. Moderator: YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED. Work for Microsoft, do you?
Here's an article that may shed more light on the political motivations behind such radical changes. Turns out that the state of Pennsylvania had to take over the Philly school system it stank so much.
I grew up in Philly and left about four months ago. Here's what I know.
The Philly public school system is shite. They're in their fourth year of budget problems and the state actually stepped in and bailed them out on one of them. Packed classrooms, lack of textbooks and teaching materials, etc. It's nasty. I spent a year at Southern before my mother pulled me out and put me in Catholic school.
I would only think that this could be a good thing, especially considering that the city likes building football and baseball stadiums instead of improving things like public education. Outside interests can only help. Don't get me wrong, I don't think that it's the greatest thing in the world and it skeeves me out just a bit, but it's more of a 'better than nothing' situation. Kids can only benefit. Let them find open source the way I did-- I like to think of it as being chosen:)
Like father, like son...
I'll only buy him t-shirts with an Apple or a Penguin logo to wear at school.
And maybe an OS/2 Warp tshirt if I can find one.
As ever, this is neither good or bad; it can't be anchored to either extreme. It's good in as much as the more kids get access to technology, the better. If it has to be MS tech, then even the most cynical can take comfort in the possibility that the kids will be desperate to get away from Windows by the time they're freed. But there's no competition between a kid with access to a PC and a kid without; the kid with a PC is undoubtedly better off.
But this is also bad in that branded education is arguably undesirable. One of the dangers, for example, is that the school won't be free to teach students about Microsoft's less desirable traits and tactics, or about the problem with monopolies in general. As the article notes, MS is pursuing this as a case study - it may decide it wants to market this service far and wide in the future. A Microsoft school is obviously going to reflect Microsoft's interests. You may not think this a problem today, but how might this develop in the future, as MS' strategies develop and the schools they created are bound to follow? Now, I'm not proposing GNU-sponsored schools here, but at least such schools would have guaranteed freedom and flexibility in terms of their IT setup and how they choose to use it.
The big difference is, of course, that MS is able to do this here and now, and potentially make great improvements to kids' educations. So for once, this isn't a theoretical debate. Which, you know, makes the whole thing ten times more difficult.
some friends and i were involved in teaching at philadelphia schools, and they need all the help they can get. at my school, a lot of the students couldn't read, in 2nd grade(!!). the school computer was an imac that a previous student donated. just 30 miles north, at my high school in bucks county PA, we had several computer labs, and enough computers in the library that you hardly ever had to wait to use one.
so selling out is certainly justified. basically, there's very little opportunity for conditions to get worse in the philadelphia school district, so anything is an improvement.
And I welcome the day Microsoft makes like investments in libraries. . .
Just so long as they make sure they have the complete O'Reilly catatlog and don't put up a fuss about the Linux backend running the catalog.
I'm reminded of one of my favorite bumper stickers:
"Welcome to New Jersey! Leave your money and go the fuck home"
KFG
When was the last time someone donated money to start a school just for, say, writing? Or philosophy? Who the fuck cares about technology? Anything they would teach in high school I could pick up in a couple of O'Reilly books or, failing that, The Art of Computer Programming.
Some time later, Sun did about the same thing, with the same result.
Microsoft would be pretty foolish not to take the example. It's good buisiness.
Microsoft is not building the school, they are only contributing the associated technology and services. With spending cuts hitting schools hard, Linux looks more tasty each passing day. This cunning move by microsoft assures them that this school will pump out thousands of students per year who are brainwashed to believe that computers = microsoft.
Linux? eh? Mac? What's that? It runs inside of WindowsXP right? Behold, the next generation of systems administrators, purchasing directors, and CTO's.
I'd rather be a conservative nutjob than a liberal with no nuts and no job.
Microsoft high schools may become the Wal-Mart of education if enough of them get started.
Philadelphia school district is among the poorest funded in the nation. In 1998 Microsoft and the BSA nailed the district to the tune of $4.8 million.
Now, Philadelphia is going to Microsoft and helping them market their products in return for funds to help build a new high school (which is desperately needed). I think Mayor John Street and his team have done a good job in turning that loss in 1998 into a win 5 years later.
M$ is not my fovorite bunch, but this seems like a good thing. A few of the posts have hit on the real problem, though. Installing a fancy IT lab is one thing, maintaining it over time is different and very expensive thing. The money for install and maintenance often comes from different budgets, complicating the picture.
The political cynicism is appropriate too. In VA, the lottery was voted in on the promise that the proceeds would support schools, and the majority of the profits do go to schools. But it is so easy for the politicians to see $100M from the lottery as money they don't have to provide to schools from general funds. The school winds up with no more funding than they had before, and the other money can go to pet porcine projects.
"I always expect the worst from SCO, that way I am never disappointed."
-- Benjamin Franklin, 1781
Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced. - Geek's corollary to Clarke's law
...the sooner they learn to hate them! (the slashdotters of tomorrow :) ???)
(repeat)
"Ich heiBe 'Der Grammatiknazi'. Schreiben Sie richtig!"
It's probably actually political and social re-education. Turn out a bunch of kids who are already used to the Microsoft Way(tm)(c)(r)(sm) and you ensure that you have at least SOME drones who will still ask themselves, "Is this good for the company?"
With open source and linux becoming more popular in schools, they cannot take the risk that everyone will start to realize the fundamental flaws in their business model and software architecture.
Again, this is a good way to ensure that some kids remain "pure" as we move into the new millenium.
The company's reward is the opportunity to design a school using technology in every way possible from the ground up - a prototype it could then market.
"Microsoft SCHOOL" is what I'm interpreting. Microsoft wants the idea to grow rapidly and to spread across the United States, and then... THE WORLD!
It's a great experiment IMO
Oh look. John D. Rockefeller is giving out dimes to orphans. Isn't he a nice man. All those things Teddy Roosevelt is saying about him must be wrong.
If Slashdot were chemistry it would look like this:Cadaverine
If Microsoft wanted to do some good they would have built it on a reservation where it is needed. Not in a neighborhood with a massive tax base. It's so typical, year after year money is spent on education where it is not even needed.
Yesterday, a survey conducted by a group of civil engineers was released; turns out that USA is not #1 at all. USA's infrastracture received a D- and 75 percent of schools need structural adjustment. Then there are roads that can't handle the traffic, increasing amount of cars that further the pollution, etc. With this in mind, I think that having companies that pay for schools is a brilliant idea.
It does not have to be MS only, I am sure that Apple, IBM, HP, and Dell can do the same. A school does not have to be financed by only one company; instead multiple companies can chip in. What it if the United States uses this method of financing schools and pulic institution as a punishment for tax ivasion and some other white-collared crimes? I have always wanted to study in a school with a lot of high-tech toys; I guess my dream became reality for some kids and Philly. Keep up the good work, MS.
The Philadelphia School District is extremely poor. They need whatever they can get. No, this is most certainly not selling out.
__________________________________________
Take comfort in your ignorance.
Grandmaster Plague
So my wife and I homeschool our kids..
So if he forked over 46Mil for one high school, say thats 3,000 kids..
Thats 15K per kid. I have 3 kids.
So Bill, your just across the lake from me, I was in a boat off your house last week.. Can I just swing in and grab my 45K?
Probably not...
-Rick
Not blinded at all. And in fact, I would say that I feel it's the other way around.
This donation of M$ dollars (not the school itself) is bad for 3 reasons:
1. Regardless of the kindness, M$ is an unethical company. Period! A free lunch today will not be one tomorrow. You need no more evidence of this than to scan the various news source headlines for the last few years. Corporations don't give anything out unless there is a business or tax reason. And while some in the opulent halls of M$ may see this as a worthy cause, more see it as a business opportunity. Ugh, open your eyes. There is obviously some tax write off or future opportunity to hook more people on their products - or both. This is the nature of big business/capitalism, plain and simple. Get 'em while they're young.
2. A public school should not be financed in any way by a corporation. However, these things can happen because so many people in this country do not put as much emphasis on quality public education as they should.
I'm horrified by the stories my sister tells me of the parents having to contribute money and supplies to her kids school because the school can't afford it! Personally, when I have kids, they're going to public schools and I'm going to PTA meetings, etc., and I'm gonna put my time in and at least if things still continue to go down hill, at least I'll say I did something. My parents never did that. There is a complete lack of caring and responsibility of the majority of voting public and our esteemed leaders on this subject. It needs to change and that change would benefit everyone. Why this doesn't horrify anyone else is beyond me. If you don't have an educated public, then you have close to nothing.
While I'm sure most kids will have to work at some point in their life using M$ tools, I see no reason, being the company M$ is, to promote their usage before their professional career. Why muddy up their most impressionable years with the horrors and inflexibilities of an M$ world? They'll have plenty of time to see that on their own when they can make their own choice on what OS and tools they want to use. I'd rather my kids and my sister's kids learn about history, math, etc.., instead of service packs.
3. All this 'neat' stuff, being an expirement and all, will go right back to benefit M$ and no one else. It would be such a better idea to use free software and open standards because the creation (the mind of someone young is a wonderful thing!) and fixing of said technology would go back into the common good - royalty and patent free (one would hope). This is a no brainer; using public funds not just for educating our kids properly, but also improving technology - that anyone can have - will in turn, give us more control over how and when we access information.
You know, the general public/govt./us did this before when we paid for the copper for phones to be laid down in the early/middle part of the 20th century. The govt. laid all the wire and let AT&T use it for next to nothing. Over the years, AT&T got 0wnership of it. Then, in the latter part of the 20th century, the baby bells used that free (as in beer) resource to stop local competition in their local markets. They cited the argument "why should we be made to lease our lines for little money to local competition?"
So I say the opposite, why should public funds go to helping figure out technical issues for the richest software company in the world? Because kids will be bug testing (and possibly fixing) on publicly funded time which is not what I or anyone else pay tax dollars for!
Nah, this is a sham and public relations magic hand waving. It's a $46mil bug test and fixit it school. Like the reality of the M$ office in which you're not amazed by all the marvels of the modern world and how much time and money they save you, but rather how you're locked into a buggy platform with escalating costs, little or no choice, and no c
Philadelphia I've always felt is a great city, but it suffers from a lot of problems. City wage taxes motivate companies to leave the city, which urges people to leave the city with them. It has a bit of a cleanliness problem, and the Philadelphia school district is in dire straits. Its suffered from low funds and very poor performance scores. This further urges families to leave the city and Philly has been suffering from urban blight for years. Fewer and fewer people want to live in philly because the school system sucks, and that hurts the over all economy and diversity of the city (read: it leaves poor minorities left behind while rich white people leave for the suburbs, leaving the area economically depressed).
Philly has a lot of great culture. William Penn founded it as a city not of industry, but of culture. The current status of the city is such that such a donation, not by Microsoft, but by the Gates Foundation, is very welcome.
Philly is desperate. You might want to call it a deal with the devil... but you have no idea how desperate they are.
"All great wisdom is contained in .signature files"
Advanced courses
I am not a number! I am a man! And don't you
Perhaps they will brainwash students into thinking
operating systems should crash, That losing data is normal, and that having to reboot your computer after even the smallest change shows good design.
Perhaps they will also teach why compatability with open standards is to be avoided at all costs.
Or have they already done this?
Inner city kids? Weed them out of society .. they don't have anything of value to contribute to the rest of us that matter..
And even if it was a suburban school, why is it ok to force the children to think there s only one option.. being spoon fed by Microsoft ( or any other monopoly of your choice )
I hate Microsoft.
/. and bash Microsoft within the context set forth by the article; they deserve it and your criticism (or praise) will have merit if it is actually relevant to the situation.
I hate the viral corporate infestation that we all are gradually becoming numb to.
I hate that a kid can get suspended because the administrators are humorless, desperate suck-ups.
I hate that those administrators need money so badly that they have to resort to sucking up.
But...
YOU PEOPLE DIDN'T EVEN READ THE ARTICLE.
Those of you who are saying "at least they will get some ______ out of this" are wrong. MS is not contributing anything tangible.
Those of you who are saying "money doesn't come without strings attached"; there is no money.
Go read the article.
Then come back to
(And by the way- how the hell does a company whose name is synonymous with small and flaccid make it big in a world where sex sells?)
Skinner: We can buy real periodic tables instead of these promotional ones from Oscar Meyer.
... delicious?
Krabappel: Who can tell me the atomic weight of bolognium?
Martin: Ooh
Krabappel: Correct. I would also accept snacktacular.
The Philly school district is having a crisis trying to find qualifies teachers. The schools have become so desperate that anyone capable of signing their name is qualified be a teacher. A teacher with any talent will quickly leave the Philly district to go out to the 'burbs where they can make way more money and not worry about being shot by some animal. I can't see this school lasting too long if the students use mouse cords to strangle each other and keyboards to whack each other upside the head. Philly school district does not need technology they need that baseball bat wielding principal from that movie. But that's just my $0.02.
4. They will be conditioned to believe it's okay to have 5 different Client Access Licenses per Computer that connects to a server. (One for File-sharing, one for email, one for DB Access, one for Workgroup collaboration software [Think MS Project Server], one for Multi-media access and of course one for Internet access. [Think MS Proxy Server].
5. They will learn to ignore the truth that the MS Blaster worm was a Microsoft Windows Worm, not an Internet Computer Worm.
Have I missed any?
If you ignore the other uses of a tool, does that make the tool less useful, or you less useful?
So instead of getting the day off for snow, they get a day off when the school blue screens?
When MS Blast hits, SOBIG, or another virus is School Cancelled?
for a corporation to go around building schools and wielding influence over the public sector in an attempt to gain loyalty in kids from day one. Charitable work is supposed to be done by charitable foundations, and that's why we have laws to govern how foundations work. I'm sure there's a huge Microsoft foundation, why don't they make it one of their goals to build tech-laden schools all over the place? The foundation's interest is in promoting social welfare (and spending money, since it has to spend 5% of its balance per year) whereas the corporation's interest is in increasing profits.
Remember that in most inner city schools, the per-school IT person is an overworked librarian, and at the district level, the IT manager makes sure the report-card system works.
I know, my magnet high school occupied the third floor at one of those schools while I was there. We had a good technology coordinator and a team of 16 students doing stuff from basic network management to webmaster, root on the fac/staff e-mail and web server, etc. The school downstairs didn't want our help -- they didn't have anyone who could really coordinate with us in the building, and the city school system actively hated the white suburban kids (i.e. we had a school board member and former mayor calling us "a racist institution" my ninth-grade year), so the district administration wouldn't work with us.
Of course, they loved to claim us when it came time to publish standardized test scores. We kept their freaking district afloat.
I really liked the memo which was leaked which was written by the mayor and which solicited suggestions on how to best make the Edison-run schools fail so that the city would get control back...
In other news: Microsoft cures cancer!
Those greedy bastards! Evil, evil swine!
You know they just cured cancer for the publicity!
They should be sued. They should be broken up!
- For the complete works of Shakespeare: cat
1. At least microsoft and bill gates actually try to do things that are positive in the world. When is the last time we heard of the other Billionaires out there like Ellison giving away millions and billions to different causes. There might be alterior motives involved of course, but at least there are some positives that can come from this. 2. It takes money to give money and make a real positive contribution in your community. How many of the free software people have money to actually help out to fund hospitals and give money to those needing costly medications in africa for example. Some of you will bitch at microsoft even when they do positive things, I just can't understand you. Get out of your parents house, make some money, and make a difference. Spending hours on the new kde enhancement isn't going to make much of a difference in the world.
This is only one example of the many millions of grants to schools from Gates can produce. Him and his wife Melinda are planning similar programs with existing schools to fuse them with the latest technology. I'm not going to list links, because there are so many relevant one's. But take a peek at the Gates Foundations' active role with US school system.
I call it Microsoft Breeding 2010.
Yeah, the inner city schools can apply for grants, but then the administration refuses to accept them because they are Macs. Remember that story?
Even if it is only like me or you donating $20 there is some good in this project.
Now does anyone know if the city is getting ready to replace all of it's desktops soon?
Almost none of the posts that have been modded up point out the good side of what this can do for kids. It's really disappointing that the mods and most posters care only to crack jokes, shoot puns, and criticize this action. If I were a parent with a kid who could go to this school, I'll bet I'd feel pretty lucky. And I sure as shit wouldn't care if the entire school had Microsoft crap everywhere or Linux - hell, most parents probably don't have any exposure to this. Cry all you want that that's the problem, but you're missing the point. This does help - maybe not your agenda, but it's a selfish one in this case.
What about the good for this? Does anyone here even have kids? Does anyone here have exposure to schools that don't have enough funding, where education is lacking? It reads mo0re like people here don't have a clue in reality beyond their own political interests and paranoid agendas. Sad indeed.
What happens to the kids that won't get access just because someone makes some sort of arbitray ethical decision? The world is full of huge contradictions and paradoxes. If this gives these kids the chance to use computers and be comfortable with technology, why don't we trust the rest of the school system to teach them to think and make their own choices as they grow. The experience is more important then the who or what.
...I want to see the "student on teacher brutality" and "in-classroom rapes" realtime. Aren't they the norm in Philadelphia Public schools these days?
Goofy distractions like this are soooo not helping any of the real problems in Philly schools...
Political correctness is the newest form of slavery.
How about funding for other things first? Maybe money would be better spend on security and drug prevention than technology. The focus should first be on the other more important things and technology last. If a huge donation was made by Microsoft to hire security guards and teach awareness of drugs there wouldn't be any complaints.
Developers: We can use your help.
I utterly fail to see why any one highschool anywhere would need a tech budget that high. That even seems high for a University computer budget. I mean, with $46 million you sure could buy some serious extreme high-end hardware, but who the hell in a highschool is going to make use of teraflop supercomputing?
I use to live in Philly and still have family there. One of my sisters worked as a teacher for the School District in a very poor section of the city. I use to say to her how great it would be if every class and every kid would have a computer. She would respond that the money would be better spent repairing leaky pipes, broken windows, getting rid of the rats, or even going towards the local community to make the kids feel like they are in a safe and clean enviroment. We sometimes lose perspective on things and think that technology can solve all of our problems but it can't. Wasn't technology and the PC suppose to create a paperless office but I'm sure that most offices use more paper today printing up hundreds of spreadsheets, presentations, documents, etc. which just end up being thrown away. Wasn't the computer suppose to be able to do everything faster or more efficiently that we Americans were going to have more free time but we are working longer hours today then we did 30 to 50 years ago. aren't old computers/hardware and even not so old computers/hardware ending up in our landfills causing problems, do a google search and find out the damage that hardware is doing to our enviroment. Basically it comes down to this technology is a tool to help us find a solution but eventually it falls on us the human race to really solve the problems. Sorry hope I didn't get to preachy there.
It's the Gates Foundation, not Microsoft, people. Here is a list of grant money distribution from the Gates foundation for 2002.
Life imitating art?
>being the first school of it's kind Will be the correct usage of "its."
We should start a slashdot-backed project where the LUGs in Philly would use donations from the Linux community to print big posters of a Penguin and a red Devil stick it on the walls around that school. In a Metallica concert with kids wearing Napster T-shirts, I would want those kids to be Linux and Metallica be Microsoft than the other way round.
Hey its a war remember? We should try to win this battle without spending the same amount of money.
The Linux community can fight back MUCH better by releasing Linux distros and all the LDP documentation in languages of much poorer countries. Microsoft couldnt fight back if they sold Windows 2003 at $5 a copy. That would be too expensive there.
"Give orange me give eat orange me eat orange give me eat orange give me you." -Nim Chimpsky
Does this not remind anyone of the funding of a high school, also in Philly, by a company clearly modelled on Microsoft, in The Corrections? Then again, as has been amply pointed out, it's the Gates Foundation, and not MS doing the funding. Anyway, I hope no one gets bashed with a 2x4.
Wait a minute....Weren't they extorting Philadelphia school system for money a couple of years ago?? No wonder the school system can't afford to build new schools. Now Bill is going to play hero??? Slashdot story Salon
How many inner city students will be able to afford Windows XP -- now more expensive than entire computer systems? The same goes for MS Office. Poor kids can probably get now-obsolete-by-market-standards hardware for free. For example, I know of one university with a few hundred P200's sitting in storage. No one wants them, and its expensive to recycle them.
Linux user group(s) in Philadelphia should think about finding old, donated equipment, and offer it along with group Linux lessons and installfests to students of "MS High". Contact the student council. MS isn't running the school, they're only providing the technology & support. The exposure to technology that these kids will get at school may spark their interest, but they could have no money for the expensive proprietary software, and we know what happens when MS software is pirated. With some help, they could learn that great software isn't necessarily expensive.
Coke and Pepsi don't prevent you from putting anything else in your fridge once you have 'installed' their product. They don't tie their products with other products that tie you in, they don't take your knowledge hostage (.doc .xls .ppt .wm?) so you can only retrieve what YOU created if you keep their product.
I'm sure they're evil all the same, but their evil is a different kind of evil. More short-term.
And I bet most of the "millions of dollars" they "donate" are Windows licenses. Hah, big donation.
Home Page
Danaeos dona ferentes...
"I fear Greeks bearing gifts", heard in the Trojan crowd admiring the big wooden horse.
Good advice then, good advice now.
In other news, the GNU project and numerous other FS and OSS projects donated software worth some billion dollars to schools and 3rd world countries.
McBride commented this as "dissapointing", while Gates found it "anti-competitive".
The world is generally not very interested in the affair and was not available for comments.
They should build a high school in India, not Philly.
of coders. Look at the economy now. In the same way that we don't need higly skilled engineers to build cars anymore, we won't need highly skilled coders to build applications by the time these kids graduate. This is like bitching about Ford giving a drivers ed program a car. "Oh no, the kids won't know how to drive other kinds of cars! They'll all become Ford mechanics!" Look, a computer is a computer is a computer. This will be more true in 10 years when these kids hit the work force.
I am gonna open a pawn shop next to the school. Probaly can make a good profit selling the PC's back to microsoft. Of course they will only come with Linux installed and the license will be $52.
-ZiN-
They're saying to Apple: "A school for a store". Now the only thing we can hope is for Apple to close all stores immediately...
I think, therefore I am...I think.
Stop being so damn cynical. Who really cares? Do you think the kids who are getting the new school care where they money came from? They will get a nice school and resources they may not (or may) have access to currently. I think it is great someone, anyone, is helping improve our schools - even if it is just one school. Be happy for the kids and stop hating for one minute.
Comparing Gates Foundation charities to MS business practices is a lot like comparing the J. Paul Ghetty museum in LA to oil drilling in the North Sea.
We may disagree about the morality behind some of the world's larger fortunes ('behind every great fortune, there is a crime'). However, I question the assertion that the nature of these philanthropic ventures is forever tainted by the origins of their corporate sponsors. To say this is to say that Carnagie hall, the Ghetty museum I menioned previously and all the educational institutions the world over who have been the beneficiaries of philanthropic donations by some of the world's wealthies people are suspect and liable to be tained still by the monies that created them. I for one, do not agree that history backs this assertion.
Here's to looking that gift horse square in the mouth,
- RLJ
Wasn't it only a few years ago that Philadelphia had a school budget crisis that was intensified by Microsoft's demanding additional licenses be purchased? Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice or more and I must be a devoted Windows user...
You compared a legal entity (corporation) to an illegal one (mafia). Setting aside your hyperbolic artistic license for a moment... surely you realize that Microsoft hasn't killed anyone while extorting money from them, right? You do get that, don't you?
If I compared you to Jeffrey Dahmer because you're both psychotic delusionals who think the world is out to get them, that would be flamebait, right?
I'm so glad you're able to see it my way.
Anyone here that slams MS for spending money on education is an asswipe, plain and simple.
Whether you are talking about a poor inner city or a well-to-do suburban school, a major company like this putting in a good chunk of change to help educate our children is a good thing, and any negative spin you try and put on it does nothing but make you look like a fool.
This country is quickly falling behind when it comes to education (at least that's the way it seems based on all the bad press about scores, teacher strikes, lack of funding, etc.). You want to complain that Microsoft is securing themselves future coders and admins? ESPECIALLY when we're talking about poorer communities, these kids might not even get the chance to USE a computer, and your going to complain about what software is on it? Ridiculous.
This is just a pre-emptive strike, as the subject says. I haven't read through the posts yet and I know there are people complaining about this. Your a dead wrong on this one to those that are.
If a pion (n-) collides with a proton in the woods & noone is there to hear it, does lamdba decay into the source pa
I guess that in addition to getting out of school for snow days, you would also get a day off when the school crashes!
Philadelphia is too be the home of a...
when it is appropriate to use two, to or too?
First you bankrupt the school board:
0 /m icrosoft_school/index1.html ...then you make them an offer they can't refuse:
w si temid=31861
http://archive.salon.com/tech/feature/2001/07/1
http://www.kyw1060.com/news_story_detail.cfm?ne
Come on, guys!
Donate to Linux High Scool!
We need a 50,000 seat stadium for the annual football game against Microsoft High!
It will be funny to hear the radio stations in Philly reading off the school closings due to the next Blaster-alike worm, and not because of a foot of snow. Oh well, sign of the times I guess. I'm sure Microsoft plans to re-coup that 46M by sticking the school system with upgrade fees over the next decade or two. Beware of greeks (geeks?) bearing gifts...
boycott slashdot February 10th - 17th check out: altSlashdot.org
Unfortunately, as a FOSS vendor I am not a convicted monopolist who can take the billions I stole from innocent consumers and put it into a foundation to promote FOSS and then say what a wonderful person I am. Of course, Gates learned this technique from the Robber Barons of 'yore. Today, for example, everyone in America associates Carnegie with good deeds - not the thieving son-of-a-bitch he really was.
The article doesn't say anything about Microsoft footing the bill for the perpetual technical support and maintenance that all this shit is going to need. And unless they make it some kind of magnet school for just the kids actually interested in learning (and who are somewhat less destructive), that equipment won't last three months. I have seen firsthand what the fucking animals in the standard high schools do to the things my tax dollars pay for, and it ain't pretty.
If Microsoft doesn't handle support and maintenance, then it just won't get done after the news cameras leave. The Philadelphia School District can barely make ends meet as it is without needing a platoon of MCSEs on the payroll for this boondoggle.
~Philly
This will end up costing the school system more money in the long run. To make this a real offer of generosity, Microsoft must give this school system a non-expiring license for their software.
This new high school can teach LynchMan the difference between to, too, and two!
According to the The Philadelphia Inquirer, Philadelphia is too be the home of a Microsoft funded High School.
I'm not a big Microsoft fan, but I applaud the Gates Foundation's efforts to try to help Philadelphia schools. I think, though, that they're flushing their money down a toilet. I agree that the teachers' union is largely responsible for the state the school district is in now, and it's symptomatic of a larger problem that Philly has with unions in general. Philly schools can't be saved and it boils down to the core of Philadelphia's problem: its people. A large sector of the population has developed the 'can't-do' attitude fostered by unions for generations, and as long as they maintain this attitude Philly will remain a third-world city where people get by on theft and graft instead of hard work and innovative ideas. Think of all the good colleges around Philadelphia: the University of Pennsylvania, Drexel, Villanova, Temple, Bryn Mawr, Swarthmore, etc. You'd think they'd have a tremendous brain trust around there, but students leave as soon as they graduate because they know they won't be able to accomplish anything there. Locals call it 'brain-drain' and it's been going on for years, and as long as Philadelphians maintain their bottom-feeding can't-do attitude, Microsoft's billions will not help them. I'm glad I don't live there anymore!
Originally the quote had something to do with assimilating children into the Microsoft Fold, but they changed it to "learning" because it didn't sound quite as guerilla.
heh, silly rabbit
Mommy, why can't our home computer open my homework assignment? It worked fine at school.
"What's the point of going abroad, if you're just another tourist..."
If you've got the choice between MS funding an inner city school, or the taxpayers NOT funding inner city schools and then complaining when their kids are dumb, I think the choice is clear.
Ugh, ok final part of the speech. MS is in a position to do this, and has the opportunity to do this, because Joe Sixpack doesn't want to pony up the dough to make schools an acceptable place for kids to be all day.
Luck favors the prepared, darling.
Wasnt it the Jesuits who said "give me a boy for 5 years and ill give you a missionary for a lifetime."?
Microsoft is building a school... Does it need to be rebooted periodically?
In walking, just walk. In sitting, just sit. Above all, don't wobble.
-- Yun-Men
Apple was founded by a couple of guys who believed in the power of computing to transform education. They put a lot of emphasis in the education market in the early days of Apple because it was something they were both passionate about, and because they believed it was a good way to grow the company. You could in fact argue that the early emphasis on the education market was counterproductive, in that it sapped their ability to compete in the corporate world.
Microsoft only got seriously involved in education market once they'd already conquered the corporate market. In the mean time, they let PC vendors do the work of beating Apple in education.
Doesn't the current "What do you see?" marketing campaign from Microsoft strike you as absurdly self-serving? Apple's long history in the education market has been riddled with mistakes and ups and downs, but the company has never been as mercenary about education as Microsoft.
Read the EFF's Fair Use FAQ
I wonder if instead of "snow days" the students will be hoping for "crash days".
Macintosh humor! MacComedy.com
With these things in mind, I am incredibly skeptical of any initiative associated with the BMGF. I would counsel anyone to avoid dealing with the BMGF because they don't appear to be looking out for either our children or our regional budgets ( boiling down to the same thing in this case ).
If the BMGF or M$ want to create schools for our kids, I think that's great. But call them as they are, M$ academies. Keep them private but allow vouchers to pay for tuition. That way everyone has an opportunity to decide if their children should go or not.
#-#
Ad Astra Per Aspera
A rough road leads to the stars
Yeah that's a good idea. Let's get a whole bunch of volunteer programmers to build an alternative OS that is not only free as in beer but comes with the source code. It will be a great advancement in technology education.
Oh that's not what you had in mind? Maybe you miss the point.
1. Textbook patches will be released biweekly. Application of the patches is mandatory.
2. When the blackboard suddenly turns blue, students must leave the classroom in an orderly fashion and return to their seats after ten minutes. No explanation will be given.
3. An alarm bell will sound to signal a massive virus outbreak or worm infestation at Microsoft High. Students are required to calmly exit the building. No drills have been scheduled for this procedure, as it is believed the bell will ring frequently throughout the term without them.
4. Visits to Open Source High are stictly forbidden. Students are, however, encouraged to visit other area schools and report any smaller, well-run institutions with innovative programs to expedite their hostile acquisition by the Microsoft School Board.
5. Our MSSAT exam is similar to--though subtly incompatible with--its government counterpart.
6. Please do not be alarmed by the video portraits of Bill Gates whose eyes follow you down every hall. He got the idea from reading Harry Potter.
Anyone else smell damage control?
Take off every Sig.
I wouldn't be surprised that he would have to pay huge taxes instead of giving his money away.
The rich usually have the choice between giving their money to the state OR to non profit organisations.
So creating a foundation bearing its own name is a common thing.
Very large fortunes often have the choice between paying their income tax to the state, OR making a gift to a non profit organisation.
Therefore, creating a non profit organisation is a good way to turn a loss into publicity.
Actually it's like when girl "love" this guy, but he has problems and so he beats her and she hates that but she just keeps going back.
Trus me I've seen hundreds of people whine and complain about how horrid their Windows computer is, and then when the time comes they buy back into the beating.
I look at these wonderful girls an women in violent relationships and my heart goes out to them. I see all these windows user and can't help but think: "Why aren't they getting out of that relationship."
Sig Applied For
Nothing worthwhile here - a short review of this guys' resume reveals an M$ idiot who evidently learned C++ in an NT/Visual C++ world. Clearly anyone who who boasts about his code passing "M$ code review" (isn't that an oxymoron?) with an exclamation point should just be modded out.
Even better - "no-one gives a shit about redhat"?
wtf - Where does this idiot think he's posting?
I love M$ shills.....
>> The solution: quit complaining about the philathropic efforts of Windows and start an Open Source Foundation. Have an endowed fund and accept grant applications. Built it. They will come.
I think the Free Software and Open Source community are doing a remarkable effort offering software that everyone can use FOR FREE, i.e. without a salary at the end of the month.
Would Bill Gates do that ?? Would he work FOR FREE ?
In fact I suspect this foundation doesn't cost him a single cent, as he would probably have had to pay just as much as taxes anyway. Usually, one can choose between paying tax or giving some pert of it to a non profit organization.
seriously, apple has been doing this for 20+ years.
when steve does it its innovation, when bill does it, look out! its big brother!
i dont care if youre the figgin taliban, if you want to donate to public schools, GOOD FOR YOU!
I think your opinion leaves a lot to be desired. I am not as anti-Microsoft as many here. I think MS DOES create good products and their monopolistic behaviour is no different than any other company under capitalism. So this isn't a disagreement over Microsoft; instead, I'm talking about your view that sources do not matter.
Non-profits DO gain from these corporations. But is it really worth it? If some company destroys some precious rainforest resulting in hundreads of millions of dollars of damage from an environment point of view (capitalists would consider the cost to be zero), and yet it donates 1 million to PBS, is that any good? Is that even desirable? If you accept the principle that donations are ok, you are indirectly supporting the existence of those enterprises.
As someone above was saying... if the Colombian Drug Cartel gave away $25million (which is almost nothing to them) to some charity, do you think it is acceptable? If not, why?
In the short term, donations may be benefitial (because you can do things with it). But in the long term, it is not desirable at all...
Sivaram Velauthapillai
Sivaram Velauthapillai
Seeking the meaning of life... @slashdot of all places
"You, the student, agree not to discuss, publish, or hereby implicably transfer any knowledge you gain from your classes to any third party including, but not limited to any Microsoft competitor/s, any company supporting the GPL, or any Open Source related company. Further, if you relinquish ownership of all data learned you must make a good faith effort to delete (cease to remember) any of this class material learned. Microsoft may decide at anytime to End Of Life portions of, or the entirety of, this class material, but the full force of this EULA shall remain in affect indefinitely." Parents Signature __________________________ Blood Type of child? _______________________ Name of guardian to be assigned to child in the event of your death? ________________________
They had better also provide individual grants to the students to cover the airfare to India or China so they can get jobs when they graduate.
Why not something more sensible, like a landscaping school? That's where the money will be when the first crop of kids graduate. Today's kids will need to know how to use their muscles instead of their brains.
Such is the life ahead.
Amazing how the poster and editor turned a story about MS providing free sw and support for an inner city school into an antiMS rant. Where's your evidence, or is this just more slashdot FUD.
i would contribute. hell. i even subscribe to slashdot. but perhaps that only serves to prove that i am a dolt. how many programmers would it take to donate $50 (less than one billable hour) to create a foundation? and how much would it cost to take linux to the schools? but then, perhaps i miss the point yet again.
There are various reasons why one could look critical to this.
Here's one: education and innovation are correlative. In order for a society be achieve innovations, a certain knowledge is needed which can be achieved via education.
Now, the question is: is Microsoft innovative? Well, is it? I've seen various sites about this subject and they haven't seem to point out an innovation by Microsoft.
http://www.nimh.org/microsoft
Blue with white letters?
LFS. Have you built your system today?
kids in the inner city need good schools. i don't care who builds them or why.
The legal entity (corporation) does to other legal entities (other corporations) what the illegal one (mafia) does to other people: Threatens to "cut off their oxygen supply." So Microsoft absolutely has killed -- other corporations. Oh, and they did that illegally according to both the original court and the appeals court. You do get that, don't you?
Nevertheless, my point wasn't that Microsoft acts like the mafia. My point was to show how the original poster's logic doesn't hold up, and to demonstrate I used his logic in the exact same way but in a different context so that he could see how his logic was flawed. I wasn't intending anyone to assume I meant Microsoft = the mafia. If I had used an example involving fuzzy bunnies, would that have been clearer? Either way, the original poster didn't understand why people hate Microsoft even when they do something nice. I explained why.
My, I should really finish my first cup of coffee before posting in the AM.
I completely agree with your point (in the form of a question) regarding drug cartels and donations. That kind of thing would be totally reprehensible and anyone accepting monies from those types of organizations should subject to public outrage.
I look at the MS situation this way: when did MS make their money? Remember back in the day when they were the good guy? When they first licensed MS-DOS to IBM? In my mind, this move cinched the MS fortune. They stapled themselves to IBM's coat-tails in a way that guaranteed MS great profits for very little further investment.
What I am trying to say is that in the big picture of corporate philanthropy you will always have winners and losers. Large corporations are typically good competitors in the system of capitalism we have in the US. Good competitors mean you have losers. Having people who came up with the short end of the stick will guarantee there will always be questions raised about the legitimacy of corporate donations.
This is invariably a gray area both politically and morally, IMO.
I think your own examples provide supporting evidence that MS' misdeeds are clearly less gray than many other examples we might volunteer. For example, how would we feel about MCI donations. MCI is a company that belches dirty laundry to no ends. Several investigations and still they cannot come clean about their books. Would your non-profit feel comfortable taking their donation?
Okay, I'm rambling a tad. My point is that I agree with you, but I still say that MS is a much more suitable corporate donor than many companies in our midst who do exactly the same thing (think big tobacco or any pharmaceuticals manufacturer).
Thank you for your thoughts,
-- RLJ
...then I remembered where we get Computer Science lectures at Cambridge University: the William Gates Building. We also get free copies of Windows XP, amongst others. So it would be a bit hypocritical to object :-)
These things can go either way... we still have Linux on all the lab PCs and we get taught as much Linux-specific stuff as Windows-specific stuff, if not more. So, wait and see before you judge, is my advice...
so.. if u ever think u have it bad.. if u are ever at a low point in your life.. if u think u just cant go on because it sucks too much or it is too hard... just think about those poor children in that high school... those poor children.. who didnt even have a chance...
=)
...Microsoft gets a devoted user base trained in the quirks of MS software, even when the Gates Foundation makes the donation.
I saw no reference to the audit MS did in the Philly public schools a few years ago, which forced one of the poorest school districts in the country to shell out cash they really didn't have. What happened? MS wrote off the balance due and called it a donation.
link
It's all Hood
...by tying the donation to MS platforms, the Gates Foundation effectively trains children in the bizarre workings of MS software, and further solidifies Microsoft's grip on the markets of the future.
And I thought they were Linux-unfriendly at *my* school!
My other car is first.
I know how gung-ho you all are about Linux/Unix/Anything-not-Microsoft but come on, I don't see any Linux company building a high school and funding it. Imagine all of the education that they will be getting both in technology and outside of it (i.e. English, History, etc). Who cares if they all grow up to work with Windows machines instead of Linux. Regardless of Microsofts 'reasons' (and I'm sure it isn't just to battle bad press you numbnut) but the benefit to those kids far outweighs any reason that anyone, even LynchMan, could come up with. I say, Go Microsoft! Heck, I wish I'd been able to go to a school like that.
The Steve Ballmer School of Motivational Screaming
I like big butts and I cannot lie.
What was all that babble about above? I'm sure that the local governments and the schools had a LOT of say in those little experiments you are talking about. I'd bet the idea for the little mini-schools didn't come from anyone at BMGF. You guys are so worried about little things and the fact that someone with a lot of money is giving to people seems to bother you. Why are you so defensive when so many people are getting such a big benefit out of what BMGF has done? (as an aside to the above aside...who cares if the Mac network is cheaper if someone else is paying the bill? Logically...that's a stupid comment from gryf)
Has anyone ever stopped to ask whether we really want computers in the classroom? At my high school they had a ratio of about two students to each computer. We seldom got to use them because of the fear that we would break them...(bastard kids stealing mice and popping keys off the keyboards) When we did get to use them it was basically play time. The teacher just didn't want to deal with us and so the kids would pretend to be typing a paper while really just surfing for porn or browsing rotten.com Maybe we could spend money on figuring out how to teach kids not to be little pricks before handing them something as powerful as a computer. I seem to remember reading in Wired about a silicon valley school that had no computers and touted that as its defining feature.
I wonder how far reaching this technology will be? I can just picture Microsoft Windows TP Stall and Microsoft Windows TP Urinal... stripped down versions of windows with Internet access on touch screens above urinals and the doors of stalls. Seriously though, I think it's overall a good idea. Back in my day, a techno high school was the subject of many a wet dream.
First - your retort loses any credibility it might have had with your Hitler analogy ... and an incorrect one at that!
Second - you loose more credibility with generalized comments towards a user community you don't know that are prefaced with 'IMO'.
Third - you espouse strong generalizations on how MSFT will use this effort with very little knowledge about the initiative.
Fourth - you may prefer Linux, you may prefer a Mac, you may just hate MSFT - but the real truth is: most of these kids will probably use these core skills to get a desk job somewhere. If that's the case, what technologies are their future employers going to employ? Linux desktops running some open source word processing application? Most likely not. So, by educating these kids and restricting them from this Microsoft/Hitler world you paint, you're actually reducing their employment qualifications.
Finally - how many people here have always used non-MSFT products? Or how many here only use non-MSFT stuff? If these kids are armed with any IT knowledge, and if they select to continue with an education post-high school, most likely they're going to get exposure to any and every technology available, not just MSFT.
Yeah, Bill might be a rabid pig-dog, and he probably has ulterior motives for this donation, but these kids are going to benefit regardless of the technology that's taught to them.
here here, why is it that whatever the gates foundation does is perceived as bad here on slashdot?!
Will the overhead screens in each classroom be blue?
Visualize Whirled Peas
If you don't like, you don't HAVE to be here. Go to MSGeek forums instead.
bye bye.
Philadelphia is too be the home of a Microsoft funded High School.
Too?!?!?! Fucking ponderous man. Fucking ponderous.
I think the Free Software and Open Source community are doing a remarkable effort offering software that everyone can use FOR FREE, i.e. without a salary at the end of the month.
The free software is there, and has always been there (BSD?). The functional difference between BSD and Linux is minimal to the average user. But its the TRAINING that people need - and is being offered in this situation. How about donating some of your time to teach the inner city kids Linux, then you can come back whining about working for free.
Do Gates and Balmer ride the short bus to school?
[[ the only 15 letter word that is spelled without repeating a letter is uncopyrightable: it may soon be, however. ]]
Well, since they spent the last century and a half "sold out" to the State of Pennsylvania, this could be PROGRESS.
Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
if billy gates' heart bleeds for the kids, why didnt he give school IT departments _CASH_, instead of m$ software?
---- oh no - it's the RIAA and their $100000000 fine. I'm gonna take that so seriously...
Will it be the first high school with free beverages?
It will be funny to see this school go down. I wonder if they will need updates every 3 days for new security vulnerablities.
No, free software hasn't been around for more than ~12 years. And free software that is useable at school not until ~ the last 5 years.
No problem wih donating my time. Actually, I already do it, since I spend my saturdays in an association, for helping children do their homework, and also teaching them some computing.
And I do it FOR FREE. Contrarily to what you imply, I am not "whining", I am proud of it.
However, I don't see such thing in Gates'initiative. It doesn't cost him a cent, since he would have paid this amount in taxes anyway. It is just disguised generosity.
So does HP.
So do most other vendors and manufacturers.
Who cares. Does it really matter all that much in the grand scheme of things if Microsoft wants to add a drop to the bucket/ocean?
I am not sure that I would want my school mascot to be a fat, rainbow-colored butterfly.
What would the mascot's name be? *shudder*
Will this school have windows? If so, will it also have screens? If so, will they all be blue?
*** beer...it's not just for breakfast anymore.
To deal with all the viruses.
hahaha. you said eat babies....its an inside joke but yea. thats really funny. mod up.
I live next to Intel in Rio Rancho, which is home to Fab 11 (the largest fab in the world I think) Intel built Rio Rancho High School. At first the wanted to call it Intel High. People didn't like that. Also, much concern was raised that Intel would ask for more "favors" to the city such as lowering pollution standards. So basically whenever a large corporation does something "nice" then suspicion is raised. This is a good thing, as sometimes companies may actually have an alterior motive. It is funny however that in this case with Microsoft, that it is assumed bad just because it's Micro$oft. You have to look at the facts before jumping to the gun. Maybe they just want good PR. In the long run, schools win so what's the big deal? Intel could have caused more damage with Rio Rancho high if they wanted to, by trying to pollute.
I was going to reply in your journal, but it's archived, so here's your proof that you are wrong:
US Code Title 17, Chapter 1, Sec. 117
This section exempts the, "Owner of a copy of a computer program" from infringement for making copies of the computer program if the copy is an, "Essential step in the utilization of the computer program." This copying includes instaling the program onto a harddrive, or copying it into RAM to run.
The fact that this exemption is written in the law clearly implies that if there was no exemption the action would be infringing. If you are not the owner of the program the exemption doesn't apply to you. So, if a court found that you were not a legal owner of that copy of Linux (since you didn't have a license from SCO) the court could enjoin you from making any further copies. That would include installing Linux onto a new machine, or rebooting one where it is already running.
Si vis pacem, para bellum
The only thing more annoying than a Libertarian is an (un|mis)informed Libertarian
Best courses at MS High:
Win101 - How to crash windows in a blink
Win201 - Installing windows (Prerequisite: Win105 Deleting other existing OS)
Win302 - Patching your windows (Prerequisite: Win 202 - Existing in a patched-up-window room) also good eyesight is needed, students are encouraged to bring in candles as there are frequent power failures (why? how the heck should I know what OS they use at the power station?)
Win305 - Security special: Opening up all available ports to host all the hackers of the world
Win402 - Recycling code: Using word 97, but showing Word 3001 (way ahead of our times!)
Win410 - How to make full use of a computer with windows, which won't startup.
Congratulations! you are now a win-dow graduate.
I can just see it now
-I graduate from Bill Gates High
-goto Steve Balmer Community College
-transfer to Microsoft University
Go to work for (insert name of your favorite Linux vendor)!
I'm good with numbers -
There's been some discussion of this on the Philly Linux mailing list. Both for and against, but it sounds like a reasonable thing, given MS is supporting the city in the education effort. Here's a nice take on the situation
Oh no! Our chronically underfunded primary secondary public school system might be getting help! It's a sinister plot, hatched by the devil himself, Bill Gates! I can't imagine how anyone would see their soul like that!
Plueeeas! I understand the open-source arguments; I subscribe to some of them. However, you're a fanatic, a total zealot, someone with absolutely no perspective when you think this project is a *bad* thing! Did Microsoft violate anti-trust laws? Of course. But unless Americans start becoming less jealous of their money and government agencies become less wasteful with their revenues, school districts are going to be starved with little money (and low standards and social promotion, courtesy of stupid teachers' unions and parental pressure). Many American inner-city schools are awful, and if this can help remedy this situation, to quote our president, bring it on! I shudder to think what the person who did the write-up on this article would advise leaders of third-world nations to do when the Bill Gates foundation comes calling, wanting to give away, no strings attached, vast sums of money to fight AIDS and malaria. Who cares if kids get a shitty education or poor people don't get AIDS drugs? Just so long as no one "sells out" to the worst of all evils, Microsoft.
I hate Linux zealots.
Snow Day... Crash Day...
Snow Crash Day?
...the new Philadelphia experiment...
Peacecorp was going to change that. Where his business sense would have failed him in the Merchant Marines and his poor physical condition were not up to snuff for the military, he felt Peacecorp would welcome him with open arms and take his student loan burden off his hands.
"Education equals genius. Genius is good for society. I'll show them, I'm going to buck the status quo. I'm going to make a difference, I'll show them what a poor kid from the ghetto is capable of." Dana thought to himself.
Dana had not shaven for five days, but his greasy facial hair never became very thick, even after weeks of neglect. It grew in a thin, spotty Fu Manchu pattern. Best described, his whiskers resembled soot smeared on his greasy jowels. He scratched at his armpit and pulled the tightening fabric of his pajama pants out of his groin and sighed with relief.
"Aaaah."
Dana was glad that the weekend had finally come around. His Computer Repair Fundamentals and Sociology classes were starting to really dig in. He blamed the teacher for sucking, and was utterly convinced that his superior intellect would reward him with first in his graduating class of 40. He was certain that the same outcome would happen if he got into MIT, but that would never happen. The rich bastards would never give him a fair chance on a level playing field. The MIT bastards hate nerds, just like everybody else. That was alright though, Dana already knew he was superior to most of them anyway. Their facilities were only useful to the superficial.
Dana loosened up a bit by putting some music on the 'juke. He got a free MP3 jukebox from his mother and slapped an "RIAA SUCKS" bumper sticker on the side of it. Dana was vehemently opposed to the ownership and licensing of intellectual property, especially music. Dana downloaded all his favourite Pink Floyd tracks off the internet and onto the jukebox, and this brought a small amount of joy to his empty life.
"Damn the man!" he exclaimed, raising a fist as his gut flopped out of his oil-stained ThinkGeek t-shirt.
Ice T and Fred Durst alone had practically paved the way to justified downloads of all music ever created and served up on KaZaa. And so, Dana sat in in front of his monitor listening to The Wall, waiting for a reply from Peacecorp.
His mother slipped in to his room briefly to set down a balogna and cheese sandwich in front of him while he fired up a beta version of Transgaming on his Pentium 166 with MMX.
"Mom, why don't you hate the RIAA?"
She shrugged, rolled her eyes and closed the door to his room on the way out.
"She forgot to cut off the crusts." Dana held back the tears and ate the sandwich anyway.
[montemplar] wuzzup hanz0?
A privmsg came up on his IRC client. Dana had adopted the "handle" HanzoSan after his Japanese
Heh. Actually, the local paper descirbed the academies as a project designed by BMGF. If I'm wrong, then I must have missed the Jayson Blair byline.
As for why Mac, if they're cheaper, that means less assistance needed to keep them running, total cost of ownership is lower. For me, as a taxpayer, I think that is the thing to keep in mind. Less money on computers means more money for teachers and field trips.
I'm not defensive when coke, pepsi, Apple, Boeing, Intel, etc begin to get involved for each of the reasons I clarified before.
The basic premise, is that I don't think BMGF is in this soley for the benefit of the community ( big shock) but I believe it is actucally dangerous to associate with such a manipulative group in such a naive fashion.
I'm not against money, I'm against strings. I'm against outside meddlers. If I had wanted BMGF to run my schools, I would have elected Bill and Melinda to the school board myself.
#-#
Ad Astra Per Aspera
A rough road leads to the stars
I live in philly, so in 2006 I think I will have to put slack stickers on all the doors. (when i was in school i used to just spit on the doors)
That's an interesting take on Sec 117. As you noted, we still have the problem of whether or not I own the copy of the software I have. And we can't look at the "stolen goods" pattern for an answer (that was the majority of what my journal entry was about). I see no reason to believe I am not the owner of the copies I have, so I would tend to use Sec 117 to support the notion that I can not only continue to own my copy of Linux, but use it as well.
I do not have a signature
Only stop complaining when Steve Jobs has as much money as Bill Gates
I mean really, they're so effed up they need all the help they can get. They tried the Edison thing and that was so-so... what the hell.
The revolution will NOT be televised.
What was the alternative? Taxpayers blow $100 million on a poorly built school with half the amenities?? Jezz /., M$ finally does something right and you still come down on them.
my karma will be here long after I'm gone
Remember, Microsoft is a monopoly. They play by different rules.
/. doesn't make up those rules, the DOJ does. Yes, MS is a monopoly, but that doesn't mean that they should be crippled as a business. IANAL, but I highly doubt that this behavior would be considered antitrust.
Right, but
There is no longer anything that can be done with computers that is nontrivial and clearly legal. -- Paul Phillips
Its really annoying that just because it is Microsoft everyone assumes that it is bad. Imagine how the children in PA feel that they have a brand new school with all of the latest software. So what if they are not going to be immidatly exposed to linux and the open source movement. They would not even have seen a computer if it wasn't for Gates genorosity.
Fast Federal Court and I.T.C. updates
I don't want to sound like a troll or anything, but it's 'to', not 'too'.
Yes, but Carnegie did not require that the libraries be used to train people for using only his products.
Read, L
This looks very much like the Microsoft buses that toured from school to school a couple years back, but much larger and much more stationary.
I'm pretty sure a CS degree isn't required to realize that buildings are in fact immobile, and larger than buses.
Well, I don't care about antitrust law
Rob, rob, rob n' rule high school
Cause Bill's worth more than Bogota
Rob, rob, rob n' rule high school
Think of him as a public utility
Who needs Word compatibility?
Rob, rob, rob, rob, rob n' rule high school
Well, Bill's teaching us all there is to know
Rob, rob, rob n' rule high school
'Bout how laws work when you have dough
Rob, rob, rob n' rule high school
Would've done that homework shit
But my PC went beepBEEPbeepBEEP and ate it
Rob, rob, rob, rob, rob n' rule high school
(With apologies to The Ramones)
Folks,
What Microsoft is doing to help this Philadelphia high school is not much different than what the great industrial leaders of the early 20th Century did late in their lives.
Does anyone remember the name Andrew Carnegie? He made a massive fortune in the steel industry, yet late in his life his philatrophy was nothing short of astonishing. Thousands of libraries all over the USA owe their existance to Carnegie's endowment fund; Carnegie helped found the prestigious Carnegie-Mellon University in Pittsburgh, PA; and of course, one of the greatest concert halls in the world (Carnegie Hall in New York City) was funded by him.
Bill and Melinda Gates has set up a foundation with US$17 billion (and still growing) in assets to provide educational aid and medical research around the world; the Gates Foundation is among the forefront of providing aid and research into combating AIDS in the African continent.
http://www.maxbarry.com/jennifergovernment/ Great read for those who haven't read it or heard of it. "Welcome to paradise! The world is run by American corporations (except for a few deluded holdouts like the French); taxes are illegal; employees take the last names of the companies they work for; the Police and the NRA are publicly-traded security firms; and the U.S. government only investigates crimes it can bill for. Hack Nike is a Merchandising Officer who discovers an all-new way to sell sneakers. Buy Mitsui is a stockbroker with a death-wish. Billy NRA is finding out that life in a private army isn't all snappy uniforms and code names. And Jennifer Government, a legendary agent with a barcode tattoo, is the consumer watchdog from hell." quote from the page linked to above.
...profiting from those vaccinations - and probably everything else in sight - and if past history is any guide the vaccines will have viruses in them.
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
...the only proven cure for AIDS is to abstain from having sex outside marriage. Church-based groups started working in Africa to teach people this (and to stop issues like AIDS-infected men raping young girls based on the idea that if you got it sleeping with an AIDS carrier you can lose it by sleeping with someone who's clean).
Guess what? The UN told them to stop because proselytising is an invasion of their rights. The drug companies (remember that Billy boy 0wnZ some of those too) began supplying their opponents - as a matter of simple business analysis: no AIDS == no customers - with various resources. Organisations promoting Atheism (some of them funded by Bill's mate Paul) threw their weight against these efforts as well.
Three strikes, you're outta there... if we can't have them, we'd rather that they died horribly and took others with them. Nice. Very philanthropic.
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
As one who resides in South Florida now but will always live in Philadelphia, I can tell you that any help to the public school system there is fine by me. There is certainly a seperation of the have and have nots there - any exposure to technology can only help the kids with opportunities. They can learn about Linux later :)
Eat recycled food - it's good for the environment, and OK for you.
General Motors started their own college: GMI. It became a fairly well respected (at least in the circles I travel in) engineering & management school. It also gained independence from GM and eventually changed it's name to Kettering University.
-Rich
User community: the kids. You talked with them? Did you assess their wants / needs? ... but you hardly regain credibility linking to Palast or UK periodicals. Palast will criticize Gates just because he's a capitalist, and the British are bitter just because Micro$haft is an American company.
And, and what point did I not say Bill wasn't a pig-dog (isn't that the term I used?)
Why can't you recognize how this will benefit the kids?