Why the parent was originally modded offtopic, I have no idea ("What are the first 10 programs you would install on a Windows machine? How about for a Unix machine?"). Depending on the machine's use, I have a fairly minimal set of gui and/or console things I like to have _all_ the time. KWrite, (or joe), xchat (or weechat), xfe (or mc), kmail (or mutt), less, wget, ssh, multi-gnome-terminal or rxvt, as well as a few others. I'm a fairly die-hard Debian user, so I make things simple. I have a file called basic.dpkg - one for a strictly console machine, one for gui machine. It contains the list of programs I like to have installed. After having that on the machine, dpkg --set-selections < basic.dpkg Run dselect, option 3, wait a few minutes... I have my machine ready to go.
Considering that every MS Windows install I've ever done (Win 3.1-Win2k, I haven't installed XP) I've had to use external party drivers - either having to have driver floppy(s)/cd or had to go to the manfacturer's website before I had any sound. Even for Soundblasters and SB clones, PCI or ISA, it was always that way.
I've been a KDE user since about 2001 and had no idea some of the functionality. My desktop's pretty heavily customized at this point, and I've kept the same config for about the last 9 or 10 months now. I've been keeping up with Debian Unstable's updates, so I'm going to create a new user just to check out some of these features and see what I've been missing.
Nah, aside from the AC bieng a prick and trolling, there are some points there worth debating. Fer Instance..
A computer is a tool. An operating system is just another tool to help you get the most from the computer. Tools, okay?
Yep, and if you don't know what to do with a hammer, you're likely to bust a finger.
Now, when my parents want to go out for a drive they don't want to have to assemble the car. They don't want to have to open the hood and tinker around with the engine.
No, but they were trained to use the car properly, and have to know how to tell the difference between a radio dial, the steering wheel, and the gas tank cover.
They don't want doors that almost shut and windows that almost go up and down.
They also have to know how to operate the windows so that they actually do go up & down, whether they're electric or manual windows, and what to do if someone breaks one of them.
They don't want to settle for a radio that only gets AM stations and plays 8-tracks.
Then they're going to have to RTFM a bit and learn how to program their stations, learn what the scan buttons do, and use the cd player on their shiny new radio thingie now aren't they? If not, they'll be doing nothing but staring at blinking lights and perhaps listening to some static.
They just want to sit down, turn the key, and go for a nice drive.
And if they do that, they'll most likely end up embedded in a treetrunk with their own or somone else's blood on their hands, unless they know some basics.
WHY IS IT SO FUCKING HARD FOR YOU TO GET THAT?
Obviously, it's not, though apparently you are bit frustrated by it all.
Not everyone who uses a car should be expected to know how to rebuild the engine.
No, but they need to know to put oil and fuel in it - or pay someone to do it for them, or it's not going to last long.
Not everyone who turns on a TV should be forced to understand the concept of electron guns (much less be expected to manually tweak them in order to watch Oprah).
I'm sure most Oprah fans couldn't even handle those concepts. Kidding aside, they do need to know how to hook up their cable/satellite dish/rabbit ears to get the signal. If not, they'll have to pay someone who does know to do it for them.
Not everyone who sits down at a computer should be expected to know or care what a kernel is (much less how to compile one).
No, but like knowing how to change a tire on your car (since you've been so fond of that analogy), it'll make for a more meanigful experience, and not leave one hanging if the chips are down.
It's a tool. Tools should be simple and efficient. You should not have to spend MONTHS OR YEARS learning how to master a tool to carry out simple tasks... especially when there are other tools around that don't require that kind of effort at all.
Yes, and there's a big difference in using a hand saw vs using a table saw. If you mess up with one, you might get a little scrape - the other and you could lose an appendage and bleed to death. A computer isn't a pocket calculator.
Get your head out of your ass and take a whiff of reality, you elitist prick.
Physician, heal thyself.
I don't disagree with you. However, it's been my experience (YMMV) that a Debian install forces the user to actually (gasp!) know about their computer. It doesn't hold your hand and auto-config your hardware like the "newbie-friendly" distros do. Unfortunately a Debian install also has the other unfortunate side effect of creating generally clueful users who are in the habit of solving their own problems instead of running off to some newsgroup/web board before they even bother to google for what the ls command does. And yes, the Redhat/Mandrake distros will create many clueful users as well, I'm just speaking out of my own experiences in helping new users for the last couple of years.
Sorry sir, but that's just plain wrong, in a couple of respects.
a) Wink2/XP (multi-user) has been out for over 4 years. If a software company cannot properly write an application for a multi-user environment, then perhaps they shouldn't be writing software for that environment. You have no one to blame but yourself for suporting this company by buying/using their poorly written software.
b) Self-admittedly, you are running an older version of said software. If newer versions are able to run properly, you have no one to blame but yourself. If they are not available, see a).
I'm by no means an MS apologist, but you're just plain wrong in this case.
We'll ban that book and T.V. show, Forget that movie, no you can't go. Can't sell that record, don't like that song. We know what's right we know what's wrong. Can't have abortions, what's yours ain't yours, Just obey the laws. Too young to drink, say no to drugs We'll take your piss and blood.
'All the world's a stage you get the lead. Ain't no way I'm gonna play the part of the fool, There ain't no way man - no way!'
Bikers wear helmets, cars safety belts You might hurt yourself. We're watching out, We're watching out We're watching out for you...
Well the new right's been at work some time They ain't so new no more Can you hear 'em knockin' Knockin' down your door. 1984 has past, forget about Big Brother, Welcome to the 90's where the government's your mother.
They'll tell you - don't do that. They'll try and tell you - it's for your own good. Big Mother is watching you Mother's protecting you Mommy knows what's right for you
They force their will on all the rest They got the power, they know what's best. The high court is stacked to the right Old man on the left won't live through the night.
They'll tell you - don't do that They'll try and tell you - it's for your own good Big Mother is watching you Mother's protecting you Mommy knows what's right for you... Goodbye Freedom, Hello Mom The Bill of Rights just disappeared There it is - whoops it's gone! Goodbye Freedom, Hello Mom All your rights just disappeared Everybody stay calm.
First amendment casualties, but they won't be the last, Kiss the Bill of Rights goodbye it's disappearing fast.
They'll tell you - don't do that They'll try and tell you - it's for your own good Big Mother is watching you Mother's protecting you Mommy knows what's right for you... Goodbye Freedom, Hello Mom The Bill of Rights just disappeared There it is - whoops it's gone! Goodbye Freedom, Hello Mom All your rights just disappeared Everybody stay calm.
What if anti-virus, firewalls, and other critical software could somehow run in read-only memory space, which would have a physical barrier so that no bugs in software could be exploited to alter this space?
How could it be updated other than replacing chips?
Yep, just a couple of weeks ago G0troot and I over at Linuxbeginner.org were yapping in the IRC channel and installed copies of Redhat 5.1 and 5.2, respectively, on a couple machine we had sitting idle - they were the first distros we ever used way back when.
With no X and/or just a basic Fvwm, though Redhat 5.2 gave access to some Gnome beta's on the CD (bleeding edge!), we were truly amazed at how far things have come now that we run big beautiful Gnome and KDE desktops with our Slackware and Debian machines these days.
What I'd really like to see is a more helpful man page with examples. It's frustrating when using a new command to read "usage: foobar [VNFHDMudndghfud8734yfhfnbgdh] filename | device | dir | options filename[]" and then read through 5 pages of options and switches I'll never use. If every man page had at least a few examples of how to do stuff most people want to do, it'd be easier to both do those things and learn the more complex commands.
So...what's stopping _you_ from contributing to the documentation? People piss and moan and whine about docs all the time, yet aren't willing to do a thing about it themselves. I mean come on, this is open source stuff, meaning _you_ can contribute if you feel the need to do so - if you have some sort of itch to scratch. Or is it that you just feel the need to complain about the itch?
Although she owns the site name until 2005, Grosse said she is done. "I am so broke right now defending myself. . . . I defended freedom of speech but I don't want to open that can of worms again." Sadly, it costs a lot of money to exercise free speech in America
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I already _bought_ a DVD player, it's sitting in a bay right below my cdrom.
Why the parent was originally modded offtopic, I have no idea ("What are the first 10 programs you would install on a Windows machine? How about for a Unix machine?").
Depending on the machine's use, I have a fairly minimal set of gui and/or console things I like to have _all_ the time. KWrite, (or joe), xchat (or weechat), xfe (or mc), kmail (or mutt), less, wget, ssh, multi-gnome-terminal or rxvt, as well as a few others.
I'm a fairly die-hard Debian user, so I make things simple. I have a file called basic.dpkg - one for a strictly console machine, one for gui machine. It contains the list of programs I like to have installed. After having that on the machine,
dpkg --set-selections < basic.dpkg
Run dselect, option 3, wait a few minutes... I have my machine ready to go.
Considering that every MS Windows install I've ever done (Win 3.1-Win2k, I haven't installed XP) I've had to use external party drivers - either having to have driver floppy(s)/cd or had to go to the manfacturer's website before I had any sound. Even for Soundblasters and SB clones, PCI or ISA, it was always that way.
The article's tripe.
>...When I watch Fox and Friends...
Is it just me, or does that sound like the title os a Saturday morning cartoon show?
Maybe he's a cook :)
>>But Grandma might hear of software X and want it.
>with most home users this does not happen.
You are correct. BTDT, and Grandma's doing just fine. She's even using Debian Unstable now that Redhat 7.3 reached it's end of life last December.
I've been a KDE user since about 2001 and had no idea some of the functionality. My desktop's pretty heavily customized at this point, and I've kept the same config for about the last 9 or 10 months now. I've been keeping up with Debian Unstable's updates, so I'm going to create a new user just to check out some of these features and see what I've been missing.
...is the most difficult to discharge superbly.
--Robert Fripp
Nah, aside from the AC bieng a prick and trolling, there are some points there worth debating. Fer Instance..
... especially when there are other tools around that don't require that kind of effort at all.
A computer is a tool. An operating system is just another tool to help you get the most from the computer. Tools, okay?
Yep, and if you don't know what to do with a hammer, you're likely to bust a finger.
Now, when my parents want to go out for a drive they don't want to have to assemble the car. They don't want to have to open the hood and tinker around with the engine.
No, but they were trained to use the car properly, and have to know how to tell the difference between a radio dial, the steering wheel, and the gas tank cover.
They don't want doors that almost shut and windows that almost go up and down.
They also have to know how to operate the windows so that they actually do go up & down, whether they're electric or manual windows, and what to do if someone breaks one of them.
They don't want to settle for a radio that only gets AM stations and plays 8-tracks.
Then they're going to have to RTFM a bit and learn how to program their stations, learn what the scan buttons do, and use the cd player on their shiny new radio thingie now aren't they? If not, they'll be doing nothing but staring at blinking lights and perhaps listening to some static.
They just want to sit down, turn the key, and go for a nice drive.
And if they do that, they'll most likely end up embedded in a treetrunk with their own or somone else's blood on their hands, unless they know some basics.
WHY IS IT SO FUCKING HARD FOR YOU TO GET THAT?
Obviously, it's not, though apparently you are bit frustrated by it all.
Not everyone who uses a car should be expected to know how to rebuild the engine.
No, but they need to know to put oil and fuel in it - or pay someone to do it for them, or it's not going to last long.
Not everyone who turns on a TV should be forced to understand the concept of electron guns (much less be expected to manually tweak them in order to watch Oprah).
I'm sure most Oprah fans couldn't even handle those concepts. Kidding aside, they do need to know how to hook up their cable/satellite dish/rabbit ears to get the signal. If not, they'll have to pay someone who does know to do it for them.
Not everyone who sits down at a computer should be expected to know or care what a kernel is (much less how to compile one).
No, but like knowing how to change a tire on your car (since you've been so fond of that analogy), it'll make for a more meanigful experience, and not leave one hanging if the chips are down.
It's a tool. Tools should be simple and efficient. You should not have to spend MONTHS OR YEARS learning how to master a tool to carry out simple tasks
Yes, and there's a big difference in using a hand saw vs using a table saw. If you mess up with one, you might get a little scrape - the other and you could lose an appendage and bleed to death. A computer isn't a pocket calculator.
Get your head out of your ass and take a whiff of reality, you elitist prick.
Physician, heal thyself.
I don't disagree with you. However, it's been my experience (YMMV) that a Debian install forces the user to actually (gasp!) know about their computer. It doesn't hold your hand and auto-config your hardware like the "newbie-friendly" distros do.
Unfortunately a Debian install also has the other unfortunate side effect of creating generally clueful users who are in the habit of solving their own problems instead of running off to some newsgroup/web board before they even bother to google for what the ls command does.
And yes, the Redhat/Mandrake distros will create many clueful users as well, I'm just speaking out of my own experiences in helping new users for the last couple of years.
So, is it going to be used as the engine for Duke Nukem Forever?
Sorry sir, but that's just plain wrong, in a couple of respects.
a) Wink2/XP (multi-user) has been out for over 4 years. If a software company cannot properly write an application for a multi-user environment, then perhaps they shouldn't be writing software for that environment. You have no one to blame but yourself for suporting this company by buying/using their poorly written software.
b) Self-admittedly, you are running an older version of said software. If newer versions are able to run properly, you have no one to blame but yourself. If they are not available, see a).
I'm by no means an MS apologist, but you're just plain wrong in this case.
see here
Reminds me of a tag line I saw recently...
There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, ammo.
Use in that order.
Starting now.
Goodbye Freedom, Hello Mom
We'll ban that book and T.V. show,
Forget that movie, no you can't go.
Can't sell that record, don't like that song.
We know what's right we know what's wrong.
Can't have abortions, what's yours ain't yours,
Just obey the laws.
Too young to drink, say no to drugs
We'll take your piss and blood.
'All the world's a stage you get the lead.
Ain't no way I'm gonna play the part of the fool,
There ain't no way man - no way!'
Bikers wear helmets, cars safety belts
You might hurt yourself.
We're watching out, We're watching out
We're watching out for you...
Well the new right's been at work some time
They ain't so new no more
Can you hear 'em knockin'
Knockin' down your door.
1984 has past, forget about Big Brother,
Welcome to the 90's where the government's your mother.
They'll tell you - don't do that.
They'll try and tell you - it's for your own good.
Big Mother is watching you
Mother's protecting you
Mommy knows what's right for you
They force their will on all the rest
They got the power, they know what's best.
The high court is stacked to the right
Old man on the left won't live through the night.
They'll tell you - don't do that
They'll try and tell you - it's for your own good
Big Mother is watching you
Mother's protecting you
Mommy knows what's right for you...
Goodbye Freedom, Hello Mom
The Bill of Rights just disappeared
There it is - whoops it's gone!
Goodbye Freedom, Hello Mom
All your rights just disappeared
Everybody stay calm.
First amendment casualties, but they won't be the last,
Kiss the Bill of Rights goodbye it's disappearing fast.
They'll tell you - don't do that
They'll try and tell you - it's for your own good
Big Mother is watching you
Mother's protecting you
Mommy knows what's right for you...
Goodbye Freedom, Hello Mom
The Bill of Rights just disappeared
There it is - whoops it's gone!
Goodbye Freedom, Hello Mom
All your rights just disappeared
Everybody stay calm.
reference
What if anti-virus, firewalls, and other critical software could somehow run in read-only memory space, which would have a physical barrier so that no bugs in software could be exploited to alter this space?
How could it be updated other than replacing chips?
Sure, but it is appreciated when it's /.'d within 20 minutes... like now.
Yep, just a couple of weeks ago G0troot and I over at Linuxbeginner.org were yapping in the IRC channel and installed copies of Redhat 5.1 and 5.2, respectively, on a couple machine we had sitting idle - they were the first distros we ever used way back when.
With no X and/or just a basic Fvwm, though Redhat 5.2 gave access to some Gnome beta's on the CD (bleeding edge!), we were truly amazed at how far things have come now that we run big beautiful Gnome and KDE desktops with our Slackware and Debian machines these days.
his ShieldsUp does in fact test for open ports.
However, it even fails at that.
This happened not too long ago with The Linux Game Tome. About.com had taken all of the Linux Game Tome's content and printed it as its own.
And has for quite some time.
What I'd really like to see is a more helpful man page with examples. It's frustrating when using a new command to read "usage: foobar [VNFHDMudndghfud8734yfhfnbgdh] filename | device | dir | options filename[]" and then read through 5 pages of options and switches I'll never use. If every man page had at least a few examples of how to do stuff most people want to do, it'd be easier to both do those things and learn the more complex commands.
So...what's stopping _you_ from contributing to the documentation? People piss and moan and whine about docs all the time, yet aren't willing to do a thing about it themselves.
I mean come on, this is open source stuff, meaning _you_ can contribute if you feel the need to do so - if you have some sort of itch to scratch. Or is it that you just feel the need to complain about the itch?
Although she owns the site name until 2005, Grosse said she is done. "I am so broke right now defending myself. . . . I defended freedom of speech but I don't want to open that can of worms again."
Sadly, it costs a lot of money to exercise free speech in America
>Your pet OS is found to be lacking
No, what's lacking here is facts and the integrity of the "reporting agency".
I, for one, welcome our new RoboSapien overlords.