Yeah, fair enough, I could have thought of a less flame inducing word:o). I like to see a good idea and add my own twist to it perhaps improving it along the way. An out and out copy is never as good as the ogirinal. A copy that has been considered and done knowingly can often surpase the original because it brings a fresh set of eyes to the problem.
what particular fetures you feel windows has and linux distributions do not that would seriously improve your experience with linux ?
That's a tough question because I use Windows and Linux very differently. I develop on Linux and play games on Windows. I did develop on Windows (2000 + XP) for a few years though so I will compare it with then.
Lack of configuration is the main bonus point of Windows. You just install software and it's ready to go. While I like the configuratability (is that a word?) of Linux I find it makes small common changes slow and painful. I hate installing a big new piece of software because it (often) means digging though a multitude of text files looking for a setting while reading technically complex man pages. A lot of Windows programs have text files for configuration but you never go near them. On Linux your always in there.
Common feel is another advantage. The whole cut and paste disaster on Linux is almost laughable. I know that the Gnome and KDE teams have been working together on cut and paste and drag and drop but there are still numerous places where it doesn't quite work. It might supprise you to know that I don't really care that much about the different widget kits. I run a mixed system of Gnome apps and KDE using whichever is best for the job at hand. The widgets work the same in both kits (for the most part) so I just see the difference as a skin.
The one thing that does bug me about the different widget sets though is the lack of one hit configuration. It's impossible (IMHO) to run a pure KDE or prue Gnome desktop. I find it frustrating that you can't (easily) configure the Gnome L&F and KDE L&F at the same time. Then, of course, there is OOo which is off on a world of it's own and the X apps which I never quite figured out.
Updating the system is quite painful as well. I find it hard to bash Linux about this though as it's fundamentally different to Windows updates which only do there core OS. It would be nice if updates were a bit more reliable. I can only remember one time that a Windows (XP) update borked my machine. On Linux something breaks on a monthy basis (synaptic is broken at the moment for instance).
P.S. Thanks for the non-flame reply:o) makes a change.
Cheers. That's amazing. I can't believe how much that looks like XP. I'm pretty sure there are a few people that I do maintenence for that wouldn't notice if I switched them over to that. I prefere the telly tubbies background as well.
When the network goes down your machine stops working. The network really is the machine. I can see this being useful in some places but I can see this would be a major pain in rear for a lot of users. I hated working on terminals. There was always so much lag.
I'll stick with my NFS mounted home directory and a local OS I think.
Yep that pretty much hits the nail on the head and was ammusing to boot. It was what I was trying to get across (although I think it perhaps paints Linux in a slightly too good light). I'm not trying to advocate the use of Windows, in fact I actively try and get people to at least try Linux (2 converts and counting:o)). What really frustrates me though is the lack of polish on Linux. Windows has some really nice features and it's about time the Linux world copied them.
That last sentence will no doubt start a flame. There seems to be a wide spread allergy to copying good ideas with the Linux crowd. A serious not invented here problem. It's like they feel that if they copy one good idea they can't ever innovate again. If I see a good idea I copy it. That's part of human nature.
No, it's not fine, but then nor would a car with only one wheel be fine. The fundamental functions of a car are now highly reliable and abstracted away or hidden to the point where the majority of car owners have little or no understanding of what goes on under the bonnet. A computer should be the same. Windows has been approaching this level of product maturity for years - Linux has a long way to go. What will be hard, and will require a good deal of skill, will be marrying the simplicity of Windows for novice users with the ability to modify the system.
Windows is an unmaintainable car it has a steering wheel and a go pedal. When it goes wrong you throw it away and get a new car. That makes ownership quite expensive.
Linux is a highly maintainable car it has 4 steering wheels, 84 pedals and a little knob to tweek the engine timing while you are driving along. You have to know every damn thing about it before you can drive it and your constantly tweeking it. That makes ownership quite expensive.
I'm sure these arguments are falling on deaf ears so I will give up now.
Karma be damned I just had to reply and say I agree pretty much completely with what you say. I just wish I had mod points as there are, IMHO, plenty of Linux hackers that need to read something like this. I'm in a really lucky position in that I have time to tinker with and learn about Linux and so I use it as my main OS. If I was deciding on an OS for a business or non-technical user I would choose Windows simply because it's far easier to manage and run.
While most of the people replying have tried to rubbish the car analogy I think it's pretty much spot on. I love the fact that I don't have to know how the internals of my car work (although I know the basic idea). If something goes wrong (and that's rare) I just give it to a garage to fix. I can't wait until computers reach that level of product maturity. Computers should be even better than a car because the software parts don't wear out.
The OS, for most people, is like a tool. People who use tools don't want to waste time configuring and maintaining them. People who build tools have a different view. They are happy to spend time fiddling and improving the tool itself. The Linux world is currently full of tool makers and, since it is all free, there is little driving force to make it easy to use for tool users. I hope it gets there one day though because it's a fantastic project.
Will come with a tiny display in front of each eye that will be able to show visulizations as well. Now that will be "cool". I can't wait for someone to bring out a half way decent VR headset for a reasonable price. Oh and make good use of it:o)
Interesting. I was, it seems, mistaken about the API thing. Pretty sure it will never bother me though as I have very little intention of spreading my skills to include C++ anytime soon:o). Anyway, I was just going to say that I agree about the toolbar (bottom bar). By default it's to tall at 1 inch. Having said that for a very long time (years) I left it like that. I figured that with multiple desktops it didn't matter that chunk at the bottom got wasted. Recently however I have switched it to auto hide. Under windows my start bar is more like 1.5 inches simple because of the number of quick launch buttons I have but again it's auto hidden. All in all I'm not sure it's that much to complain about but I look forward to the KDE 4 LAF.
You've got to admit he's got a point though. Even my parents have started to give up trying to print the Internet out so things must be changing for the better. Think how many trees we could save by simply removing that one little button.
Now we just need...
on
KDE 3.5 Released
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· Score: 3, Interesting
...one of the major distributions to get behind KDE and push it a bit. Debian is about the closest I can think of (yes, I know I'm going to get flamed for that) and that is desktop neutral. There's kubuntu but that could hardn't be called major (although I think it will do pretty well).
It's a real shame because IMVVHO I think KDE is the better Desktop system. I know under the hood Gnome is supposed to be better but quite frankly as long as it works I don't really care. I want different things from my desktop than from my API. I want my desktop to be inviting and fun to use I want the APIs I use to be like my bank manager (boring and predictable). Gnome seems to have the API right but the desktop wrong and KDE has the desktop but not the API. I might be totally wrong here because I have never used the API of either (roll on (a fast) swing) but that's the impression I get from the advocates for each side.
The other main argument against KDE is that it is too much of a Windows clone. Perhaps I'm the only one that thinks this but I think that's a good thing. I can switch quickly between windows and KDE without too much thought. Like it or not, M$ have spent millions designing an easy to use desktop system. Perhaps it's not perfect but I can't help feeling that the Gnome people are being different simply because they don't want look like windows.
Wow, modded off topic in about 10 seconds flat. That must be a new record or something.
Certainly not getting killed is a very good motivating factor to develop new technology but I'm not sure that is the sole reason for the spikes in creativity. More accuratly I think we could see the same spikes in creativity without the need to go to war.
Eh? I hear you say. Well look at it like this. The people that take a country to war are normally loud mouths. Most of the time they bang on about going to war and making money. When they get their way and end up at war they start spouting about needing new and better weapons. Money and or resources get diverted to research and new things emerge. They used the war as an excuse to divert the money / resources. The war didn't cause the innovation the resources did. Ergo we could create that spike in innovation by diverting money any time we wanted and, better than that, we wouldn't have to bear the cost of the war either meaning that the boom in innovation could last longer.
Perhaps war is the only motivatign factor big enough to make most people pull their heads out of their collective back sides.
I realize it's a bit of a liberal type thing to say (therefore by current thinking I must be a terrorist) but I hope one day we grow up as a race and stop trying to kill one another.
If nothing else it is just such a stupid, pointless, waste of resources.
Has/. become a focal point for all the worlds nut jobs today or something? What with this and the guy asking to move porn onto another port all we need now is one of the monty python crew to do us a silly walk. How do these people get to take control of my pixels?
What's most scary though is that there is a small percentage of people who will believe him. I think those people scare me more now I come to think about it. At least this guy is just trying for his 15 minutes of fame.
My guess is that they won't be able to resist the urge to use terrosits in the enemy / villian role. It's perfect for this type of movie. Anyone with half a brain will remember how awful the first 4 were and skip it. The ones with half a brain or less are bound to rush out to see a movie with an (all american) hero cracking some (middle eastern) terrorist head. I'll eat my hat if I'm wrong. (I'm really hoping the article didn't mention the story line now;o))
I don't want to rain on your parade but I have a sneaky suspicion that in a post-apocolyptic world just about the last thing you will want to do is run Linux on a 360. I think food and shelter will probably come much higher up your list of priorities.
I would have to disagree that getting Linux to run on every possible piece of hardware that it can run on is a worthy cause but I suppose it depends what you want Linux to be. I would lile to see it compete with Windows and bring competition to a market that is (essentially) devoid of it. If that means not devoting resources to makign it run on my toaster then so be it.
It would be pretty cool if Linux worked on a 360 but please remind me again why people are trying to make it so? Aren't there enough projects crying out for some decent developer input already? Maybe I am just getting old and grumpy but this seems like a terrible waste of time that could be used to great benefit.
My mouse just failed so I went out and bought a Hyper Super Tech X40d2mfgv2 Extra III. It's the most amazing mouse ever. It has 104 programmable keys and three fantastic lights.
Am I the only one that thinks mice are becoming a little over complicated? Three buttons and a scroll wheel should be enough to anyone:o)
I thought they meant real magnets. I was like "WTF do we have nano-robitic mosquitos now?". Glad we can all sleep safe in the knowledge that we will only be bitten by regular mosquitos.
Compared to the other big plays those prices are quite good but they are still miles out of the range of what my company can afford. I imagine a lot of other small companies are in a similar boat. I would consider $100 for a stable database that was supported by a big company even if it only had postgres level features. I'm not asing for 24/7 call out but reliable bug fixing if problems occur. I'm sure companies like IBM wouldn't consider playing seriously in the low end market (I know oracle pretend to) but I think there could be money in it. As companies grow they are likely to stick with wht they know. Personally I find postgres to be perfectly good enough. I've only once hit a bug and that had a well documented work around.
That's how I do it at the moment but don't you think it would be better if the database had an XML type? You could, for instance, apply a doctype / schema to the field thus ensuring data integrity or perhaps use XPath in a query to load only certain rows. Both of these things can be done in your own code but that's not an excuse for re-inventing the wheel everwhere it's needed.
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Yeah, fair enough, I could have thought of a less flame inducing word :o). I like to see a good idea and add my own twist to it perhaps improving it along the way. An out and out copy is never as good as the ogirinal. A copy that has been considered and done knowingly can often surpase the original because it brings a fresh set of eyes to the problem.
what particular fetures you feel windows has and linux distributions do not that would seriously improve your experience with linux ?
That's a tough question because I use Windows and Linux very differently. I develop on Linux and play games on Windows. I did develop on Windows (2000 + XP) for a few years though so I will compare it with then.
Lack of configuration is the main bonus point of Windows. You just install software and it's ready to go. While I like the configuratability (is that a word?) of Linux I find it makes small common changes slow and painful. I hate installing a big new piece of software because it (often) means digging though a multitude of text files looking for a setting while reading technically complex man pages. A lot of Windows programs have text files for configuration but you never go near them. On Linux your always in there.
Common feel is another advantage. The whole cut and paste disaster on Linux is almost laughable. I know that the Gnome and KDE teams have been working together on cut and paste and drag and drop but there are still numerous places where it doesn't quite work. It might supprise you to know that I don't really care that much about the different widget kits. I run a mixed system of Gnome apps and KDE using whichever is best for the job at hand. The widgets work the same in both kits (for the most part) so I just see the difference as a skin.
The one thing that does bug me about the different widget sets though is the lack of one hit configuration. It's impossible (IMHO) to run a pure KDE or prue Gnome desktop. I find it frustrating that you can't (easily) configure the Gnome L&F and KDE L&F at the same time. Then, of course, there is OOo which is off on a world of it's own and the X apps which I never quite figured out.
Updating the system is quite painful as well. I find it hard to bash Linux about this though as it's fundamentally different to Windows updates which only do there core OS. It would be nice if updates were a bit more reliable. I can only remember one time that a Windows (XP) update borked my machine. On Linux something breaks on a monthy basis (synaptic is broken at the moment for instance).
P.S. Thanks for the non-flame reply :o) makes a change.
Cheers. That's amazing. I can't believe how much that looks like XP. I'm pretty sure there are a few people that I do maintenence for that wouldn't notice if I switched them over to that. I prefere the telly tubbies background as well.
When the network goes down your machine stops working. The network really is the machine. I can see this being useful in some places but I can see this would be a major pain in rear for a lot of users. I hated working on terminals. There was always so much lag.
I'll stick with my NFS mounted home directory and a local OS I think.
Yep that pretty much hits the nail on the head and was ammusing to boot. It was what I was trying to get across (although I think it perhaps paints Linux in a slightly too good light). I'm not trying to advocate the use of Windows, in fact I actively try and get people to at least try Linux (2 converts and counting :o)). What really frustrates me though is the lack of polish on Linux. Windows has some really nice features and it's about time the Linux world copied them.
That last sentence will no doubt start a flame. There seems to be a wide spread allergy to copying good ideas with the Linux crowd. A serious not invented here problem. It's like they feel that if they copy one good idea they can't ever innovate again. If I see a good idea I copy it. That's part of human nature.
No, it's not fine, but then nor would a car with only one wheel be fine. The fundamental functions of a car are now highly reliable and abstracted away or hidden to the point where the majority of car owners have little or no understanding of what goes on under the bonnet. A computer should be the same. Windows has been approaching this level of product maturity for years - Linux has a long way to go. What will be hard, and will require a good deal of skill, will be marrying the simplicity of Windows for novice users with the ability to modify the system.
Windows is an unmaintainable car it has a steering wheel and a go pedal. When it goes wrong you throw it away and get a new car. That makes ownership quite expensive.
Linux is a highly maintainable car it has 4 steering wheels, 84 pedals and a little knob to tweek the engine timing while you are driving along. You have to know every damn thing about it before you can drive it and your constantly tweeking it. That makes ownership quite expensive.
I'm sure these arguments are falling on deaf ears so I will give up now.
Karma be damned I just had to reply and say I agree pretty much completely with what you say. I just wish I had mod points as there are, IMHO, plenty of Linux hackers that need to read something like this. I'm in a really lucky position in that I have time to tinker with and learn about Linux and so I use it as my main OS. If I was deciding on an OS for a business or non-technical user I would choose Windows simply because it's far easier to manage and run.
While most of the people replying have tried to rubbish the car analogy I think it's pretty much spot on. I love the fact that I don't have to know how the internals of my car work (although I know the basic idea). If something goes wrong (and that's rare) I just give it to a garage to fix. I can't wait until computers reach that level of product maturity. Computers should be even better than a car because the software parts don't wear out.
The OS, for most people, is like a tool. People who use tools don't want to waste time configuring and maintaining them. People who build tools have a different view. They are happy to spend time fiddling and improving the tool itself. The Linux world is currently full of tool makers and, since it is all free, there is little driving force to make it easy to use for tool users. I hope it gets there one day though because it's a fantastic project.
Will come with a tiny display in front of each eye that will be able to show visulizations as well. Now that will be "cool". I can't wait for someone to bring out a half way decent VR headset for a reasonable price. Oh and make good use of it :o)
Interesting. I was, it seems, mistaken about the API thing. Pretty sure it will never bother me though as I have very little intention of spreading my skills to include C++ anytime soon :o). Anyway, I was just going to say that I agree about the toolbar (bottom bar). By default it's to tall at 1 inch. Having said that for a very long time (years) I left it like that. I figured that with multiple desktops it didn't matter that chunk at the bottom got wasted. Recently however I have switched it to auto hide. Under windows my start bar is more like 1.5 inches simple because of the number of quick launch buttons I have but again it's auto hidden. All in all I'm not sure it's that much to complain about but I look forward to the KDE 4 LAF.
You've got to admit he's got a point though. Even my parents have started to give up trying to print the Internet out so things must be changing for the better. Think how many trees we could save by simply removing that one little button.
...one of the major distributions to get behind KDE and push it a bit. Debian is about the closest I can think of (yes, I know I'm going to get flamed for that) and that is desktop neutral. There's kubuntu but that could hardn't be called major (although I think it will do pretty well).
It's a real shame because IMVVHO I think KDE is the better Desktop system. I know under the hood Gnome is supposed to be better but quite frankly as long as it works I don't really care. I want different things from my desktop than from my API. I want my desktop to be inviting and fun to use I want the APIs I use to be like my bank manager (boring and predictable). Gnome seems to have the API right but the desktop wrong and KDE has the desktop but not the API. I might be totally wrong here because I have never used the API of either (roll on (a fast) swing) but that's the impression I get from the advocates for each side.
The other main argument against KDE is that it is too much of a Windows clone. Perhaps I'm the only one that thinks this but I think that's a good thing. I can switch quickly between windows and KDE without too much thought. Like it or not, M$ have spent millions designing an easy to use desktop system. Perhaps it's not perfect but I can't help feeling that the Gnome people are being different simply because they don't want look like windows.
Wow, modded off topic in about 10 seconds flat. That must be a new record or something.
Certainly not getting killed is a very good motivating factor to develop new technology but I'm not sure that is the sole reason for the spikes in creativity. More accuratly I think we could see the same spikes in creativity without the need to go to war.
Eh? I hear you say. Well look at it like this. The people that take a country to war are normally loud mouths. Most of the time they bang on about going to war and making money. When they get their way and end up at war they start spouting about needing new and better weapons. Money and or resources get diverted to research and new things emerge. They used the war as an excuse to divert the money / resources. The war didn't cause the innovation the resources did. Ergo we could create that spike in innovation by diverting money any time we wanted and, better than that, we wouldn't have to bear the cost of the war either meaning that the boom in innovation could last longer.
Perhaps war is the only motivatign factor big enough to make most people pull their heads out of their collective back sides.
I realize it's a bit of a liberal type thing to say (therefore by current thinking I must be a terrorist) but I hope one day we grow up as a race and stop trying to kill one another.
If nothing else it is just such a stupid, pointless, waste of resources.
Has /. become a focal point for all the worlds nut jobs today or something? What with this and the guy asking to move porn onto another port all we need now is one of the monty python crew to do us a silly walk. How do these people get to take control of my pixels?
What's most scary though is that there is a small percentage of people who will believe him. I think those people scare me more now I come to think about it. At least this guy is just trying for his 15 minutes of fame.
My guess is that they won't be able to resist the urge to use terrosits in the enemy / villian role. It's perfect for this type of movie. Anyone with half a brain will remember how awful the first 4 were and skip it. The ones with half a brain or less are bound to rush out to see a movie with an (all american) hero cracking some (middle eastern) terrorist head. I'll eat my hat if I'm wrong. (I'm really hoping the article didn't mention the story line now ;o))
Or possibly 88 (two fat ladies) for those who like that sort of thing.
oooh, that was so non-PC on soooo many levels.
... MS Windows instead.
Ducks and runs away (very) quickly....
I don't want to rain on your parade but I have a sneaky suspicion that in a post-apocolyptic world just about the last thing you will want to do is run Linux on a 360. I think food and shelter will probably come much higher up your list of priorities.
I would have to disagree that getting Linux to run on every possible piece of hardware that it can run on is a worthy cause but I suppose it depends what you want Linux to be. I would lile to see it compete with Windows and bring competition to a market that is (essentially) devoid of it. If that means not devoting resources to makign it run on my toaster then so be it.
...until one of these power supplies burns someones house down and nearly kills them? Is that burning I smell?
It would be pretty cool if Linux worked on a 360 but please remind me again why people are trying to make it so? Aren't there enough projects crying out for some decent developer input already? Maybe I am just getting old and grumpy but this seems like a terrible waste of time that could be used to great benefit.
My mouse just failed so I went out and bought a Hyper Super Tech X40d2mfgv2 Extra III. It's the most amazing mouse ever. It has 104 programmable keys and three fantastic lights.
Am I the only one that thinks mice are becoming a little over complicated? Three buttons and a scroll wheel should be enough to anyone :o)
Don't we all...
Visit this super hyper mega ultra amazing site!!!!!.
Such is life when you try and eek out a living on line.
I thought they meant real magnets. I was like "WTF do we have nano-robitic mosquitos now?". Glad we can all sleep safe in the knowledge that we will only be bitten by regular mosquitos.
Compared to the other big plays those prices are quite good but they are still miles out of the range of what my company can afford. I imagine a lot of other small companies are in a similar boat. I would consider $100 for a stable database that was supported by a big company even if it only had postgres level features. I'm not asing for 24/7 call out but reliable bug fixing if problems occur. I'm sure companies like IBM wouldn't consider playing seriously in the low end market (I know oracle pretend to) but I think there could be money in it. As companies grow they are likely to stick with wht they know. Personally I find postgres to be perfectly good enough. I've only once hit a bug and that had a well documented work around.
That's how I do it at the moment but don't you think it would be better if the database had an XML type? You could, for instance, apply a doctype / schema to the field thus ensuring data integrity or perhaps use XPath in a query to load only certain rows. Both of these things can be done in your own code but that's not an excuse for re-inventing the wheel everwhere it's needed.