I'm interested in how it turns out; even though I always found the classic games way too difficult, I still like them. I notice that it's an action-RPG in the style of Dark Alliance, though; I hope Bard's Tale isn't another victim of consolification.
Rob (I also hope the parody aspects aren't completely stupid and unfunny)
Great. Now, instead of ad hominem, perhaps you could tell me how the (rather high) probability that this information is wrong defeats the main point of either of those posts? (A reminder: The main point of the first one was that increased copy protection wasn't a good enough reason for the small size of GC discs, while the point of the other one was that it would be stupid for Nintendo to use ROM chips for N64 games mainly because of load times.)
I haven't heard of anybody losing GC games because they're so small. I have heard of people ruining standard size CD's/DVDs because they simply dropped them.
Do these people have glass or razor blades on the floor or something? Optical discs are made to be quite hard to ruin unless you're doing it deliberately. And even ruining a disc deliberately is difficult unless you have a sharp object handy.
"Who cares about that if the system they play on isn't portable?"
Nintendo does.
Then Nintendo is stupid. But I've suspected that for some time now, at least in the realm of non-portable console making.
Insight? Nintendo's the one leading the innovation parade.
There is such a thing as bad innovation.
You seem to be painting the picture that Nintendo doesn't think these things through. If that's the case, why is the system so small, and why does it have a handle to make it easier to carry around?
So the GC is somewhat smaller and has a goofy-looking handle on it. Big deal. Unless you make a habit of carrying your GC everywhere you go (which most people don't), it doesn't really justify using smaller discs.
BTW, just to strengthen my point, I once managed to fit a PS2 and a DC (both with all the requisite accessories) in a standard-sized duffle bag with about five 50-pack spindles of CDs. If you're any good at packing at all, the smaller size of the GC and its discs doesn't confer much of an advantage. Actually, the cubic shape of the GC might make it harder to pack in some cases.
No. I'm just saying that going with the much more expensive, much less spacious ROM chips instead of CDs just because of loading times would've been insanely stupid. Hell, even taking into account Nintendo's obsession with copy protection and the fact that Nintendo's parent is a ROM chip maker, it wasn't all that smart, and was one of the major contributing factors to the death of the N64.
With the GC, the differences in media size and price between it and the PS2/XBox are much smaller, but so are the differences in the loading times.
It is true, though, that the size issue has slowed down progress in the Gamecube piracy scene. I just don't think that that particular benefit nullifies the costs in data capacity and capital involved. I agree with the Slashdotters who say that Nintendo went with the small discs because its parent company is an optical disc manufacturer. This is the only reasoning that makes any real sense to me.
An 8mm disc at high rpm has a much smaller load time than a standard DVD, due to the laser having to move a much shorter distances in order to access data.
These days, the difference in access time is a matter of seconds, and is minimized by smart programming. I didn't believe this excuse back when Nintendo used it to justify the usage of ROM chips for the N64, and I don't believe it now.
There's no good reason for making the discs that small? What are you smoking? They're not as succeptable to accidental damage,
They're pretty hard to damage, but really easy to lose in comparison. I think most people would much rather accidentally damage a $50 game than accidentally lose it. And heck, if you're not a child, it's pretty hard to accidentally damage or lose an optical disc anyway. Of course, Nintendo seems to pay a lot more attention to children than adults, so I guess that's rather irrelevant.
they're far more portable,
Who cares about that if the system they play on isn't portable?
and who'd really be that surprised if GameBoy 3 played those discs?
I would. Nintendo doesn't tend to show that much insight lately, even if the technology is likely to be able to support that sort of thing in the near future.
Anyway, you missed the only obvious reason Nintendo would have for making discs that size--copy protection. Which I personally think is a pretty weak reason.
It was a (technically) free episodic space sim on freeloader.com that was a lot like Wing Commander Secret Ops. It was about 2/3 of the way or so finished when the creators yanked it and put the game out for retail about a year later. I have a copy of the retail game, but I haven't played it yet. The game seemed too weak for retail, though.
I beta-tested Majestic, playing the episodes usually at least a week to a month before they hit the players. As soon as it ended, I had a bad taste in my mouth. I'd keep reading, from time to time, how innovative Majestic was and just laugh.
Majestic was innovative, just poorly executed.
BTW, why in the hell did you beta testers lie to us normal players about how Episode 2 was "so much better" than Episode 1? Were you in the minority, or was EA putting words in your mouths, or what?
The problem with Majestic was that it catered to the lowest common denominator. The puzzles were way too easy; most of them didn't even require any thought. I don't think this is a problem with episodic gaming, though, just a problem with EA's implementation of it. After all, the "free" Majestic Revelations episodic side-game was far better than the game I was actually paying for because the puzzles were actually good and required teamwork to solve.
Highlights included Kevin O'Hara of Sony Online Entertainment discussing "encouraging players to create the content for the game themselves" in Star Wars Galaxies
Another good hgame is Private Nurse, for it's plot and voice acting, along with it's excellent music.
My God, that game was boring. So was Kana Little Sister, which was probably made by the same people. I hope they figure out that people don't play hentai games for the plot.
If I had to pick one piece of vaporware I'd want to be able to play, this would be it. It was a bunch of screwed-up mini-games, including this one where you have to drive from somewhere to Las Vegas in a tour bus. I remember reading a preview for it in Video Games (aka the best gaming mag ever); a couple of the staff members actually took turns playing the tour bus game for like eight hours before they accidentally wrecked and ruined all their "progress."
Actually, I didn't know my son was sensitive to this sort of thing before letting play the game.
Well then, you don't have a leg to stand on, since you wouldn't have paid attention to the warning anyway, not knowing that it applied to your son.
Of course, you wouldn't really have a leg to stand on even if you did know about your son's condition, seeing as how any doctor of any competence at all would've told you that video games (all video games) are a prime cause of photosensitive epileptic seizures.
I think the difference is that the other things you mentioned are actually sports, and thus that sort of thing would be expected. M:tG doesn't fall into that category, though. Instead, it's considered a card game. The card games (or hell, even games that primarily require mental skill in general) that most people are used to give little advantage to the person with the most money. The fact that this particular card game relies to a great deal on the willingness of the player to buy expensive cards is thusly a little off-putting, to say the least.
I just noticed that they put Medieval: Total War on the list. I'm not sure why; even they admitted that it wasn't all that strategic in the real-time component. This also brings up the question, "Why not include Myth?" Myth is just as worthy of being on an RTS list as Total War is.
Rob (Note that I didn't use the word "begs," grammarians)
I believe that the definition of "RTS" that would be the closest to the truth is this:
A game wherein two or more sides, each of which has a base on a single battle map, build facilities and units in order to destroy the opposing base(s) while defending its own in real time.
This definition excludes games where you don't build units or facilities on the battle map (e.g. the Total War games) or at all (e.g. Myth). Both of those examples would be real-time tactics (within a turn-based strategic shell, in the case of the former). As for games like Europa Universalis, one could consider the world map upon which you play to be a battle map.
Oh, and SimCity doesn't involve battle, therefore you can't really consider it "strategic." (The term implies a military aspect.) "Simulation" would indeed be the best label to give it, as it simulates the real-world process of city-building (though perhaps not very realistically).
If I had known that it would be a Diablo clone, I never would've picked it up. Cheers to the people who decided to make the DS engine useful with this remake.
But what are the odds of the next coin coming up heads? That is the question.
BTW, I wouldn't put much creedence in these video game predictions unless they computed the results a hundred or a thousand times to eliminate the effects of chance. That would take too long to do unless you used the much less accurate "quick simulation" mode, though.
Slashdot Mirror
I'm interested in how it turns out; even though I always found the classic games way too difficult, I still like them. I notice that it's an action-RPG in the style of Dark Alliance, though; I hope Bard's Tale isn't another victim of consolification.
Rob (I also hope the parody aspects aren't completely stupid and unfunny)
She may be willing to give an hour of gaming together if he gives her an hour of talking with no distractions.
ITYM "an hour of listening with no distractions."
Rob (sorry, Chris Rock)
Great. Now, instead of ad hominem, perhaps you could tell me how the (rather high) probability that this information is wrong defeats the main point of either of those posts? (A reminder: The main point of the first one was that increased copy protection wasn't a good enough reason for the small size of GC discs, while the point of the other one was that it would be stupid for Nintendo to use ROM chips for N64 games mainly because of load times.)
Rob
Not only was that a lame-ass argument, but easy to defeat too.
OK, so where was it defeated exactly?
Rob
Go rent a few DVDs and then let's see how indestructible you think optical discs are.
Do you realize how many mouthbreathers rent movies and games on a regular basis?
Rob
I haven't heard of anybody losing GC games because they're so small. I have heard of people ruining standard size CD's/DVDs because they simply dropped them.
Do these people have glass or razor blades on the floor or something? Optical discs are made to be quite hard to ruin unless you're doing it deliberately. And even ruining a disc deliberately is difficult unless you have a sharp object handy.
"Who cares about that if the system they play on isn't portable?"
Nintendo does.
Then Nintendo is stupid. But I've suspected that for some time now, at least in the realm of non-portable console making.
Insight? Nintendo's the one leading the innovation parade.
There is such a thing as bad innovation.
You seem to be painting the picture that Nintendo doesn't think these things through. If that's the case, why is the system so small, and why does it have a handle to make it easier to carry around?
So the GC is somewhat smaller and has a goofy-looking handle on it. Big deal. Unless you make a habit of carrying your GC everywhere you go (which most people don't), it doesn't really justify using smaller discs.
BTW, just to strengthen my point, I once managed to fit a PS2 and a DC (both with all the requisite accessories) in a standard-sized duffle bag with about five 50-pack spindles of CDs. If you're any good at packing at all, the smaller size of the GC and its discs doesn't confer much of an advantage. Actually, the cubic shape of the GC might make it harder to pack in some cases.
Rob
No. I'm just saying that going with the much more expensive, much less spacious ROM chips instead of CDs just because of loading times would've been insanely stupid. Hell, even taking into account Nintendo's obsession with copy protection and the fact that Nintendo's parent is a ROM chip maker, it wasn't all that smart, and was one of the major contributing factors to the death of the N64.
With the GC, the differences in media size and price between it and the PS2/XBox are much smaller, but so are the differences in the loading times.
Rob
It helped that most of the early PSX and PS2 titles sucked.
Rob
Lots of crappy solutions for both the Xbox and the PS2, but no solutions crappy or otherwise for the Cube.
Incorrect. (This is a Google cache link)
It is true, though, that the size issue has slowed down progress in the Gamecube piracy scene. I just don't think that that particular benefit nullifies the costs in data capacity and capital involved. I agree with the Slashdotters who say that Nintendo went with the small discs because its parent company is an optical disc manufacturer. This is the only reasoning that makes any real sense to me.
Rob
An 8mm disc at high rpm has a much smaller load time than a standard DVD, due to the laser having to move a much shorter distances in order to access data.
These days, the difference in access time is a matter of seconds, and is minimized by smart programming. I didn't believe this excuse back when Nintendo used it to justify the usage of ROM chips for the N64, and I don't believe it now.
Rob
There's no good reason for making the discs that small? What are you smoking? They're not as succeptable to accidental damage,
They're pretty hard to damage, but really easy to lose in comparison. I think most people would much rather accidentally damage a $50 game than accidentally lose it. And heck, if you're not a child, it's pretty hard to accidentally damage or lose an optical disc anyway. Of course, Nintendo seems to pay a lot more attention to children than adults, so I guess that's rather irrelevant.
they're far more portable,
Who cares about that if the system they play on isn't portable?
and who'd really be that surprised if GameBoy 3 played those discs?
I would. Nintendo doesn't tend to show that much insight lately, even if the technology is likely to be able to support that sort of thing in the near future.
Anyway, you missed the only obvious reason Nintendo would have for making discs that size--copy protection. Which I personally think is a pretty weak reason.
Rob
It was a (technically) free episodic space sim on freeloader.com that was a lot like Wing Commander Secret Ops. It was about 2/3 of the way or so finished when the creators yanked it and put the game out for retail about a year later. I have a copy of the retail game, but I haven't played it yet. The game seemed too weak for retail, though.
Rob
I beta-tested Majestic, playing the episodes usually at least a week to a month before they hit the players. As soon as it ended, I had a bad taste in my mouth. I'd keep reading, from time to time, how innovative Majestic was and just laugh.
Majestic was innovative, just poorly executed.
BTW, why in the hell did you beta testers lie to us normal players about how Episode 2 was "so much better" than Episode 1? Were you in the minority, or was EA putting words in your mouths, or what?
Rob
The problem with Majestic was that it catered to the lowest common denominator. The puzzles were way too easy; most of them didn't even require any thought. I don't think this is a problem with episodic gaming, though, just a problem with EA's implementation of it. After all, the "free" Majestic Revelations episodic side-game was far better than the game I was actually paying for because the puzzles were actually good and required teamwork to solve.
Rob
You should try it some time.
Rob (Though I admit that it's not as fun at a party as a big trackball)
Highlights included Kevin O'Hara of Sony Online Entertainment discussing "encouraging players to create the content for the game themselves" in Star Wars Galaxies
Yeah, because Sony certainly isn't doing it.
Rob
Another good hgame is Private Nurse, for it's plot and voice acting, along with it's excellent music.
My God, that game was boring. So was Kana Little Sister, which was probably made by the same people. I hope they figure out that people don't play hentai games for the plot.
Rob
If I had to pick one piece of vaporware I'd want to be able to play, this would be it. It was a bunch of screwed-up mini-games, including this one where you have to drive from somewhere to Las Vegas in a tour bus. I remember reading a preview for it in Video Games (aka the best gaming mag ever); a couple of the staff members actually took turns playing the tour bus game for like eight hours before they accidentally wrecked and ruined all their "progress."
Rob
Actually, I didn't know my son was sensitive to this sort of thing before letting play the game.
Well then, you don't have a leg to stand on, since you wouldn't have paid attention to the warning anyway, not knowing that it applied to your son.
Of course, you wouldn't really have a leg to stand on even if you did know about your son's condition, seeing as how any doctor of any competence at all would've told you that video games (all video games) are a prime cause of photosensitive epileptic seizures.
Rob
I think the difference is that the other things you mentioned are actually sports, and thus that sort of thing would be expected. M:tG doesn't fall into that category, though. Instead, it's considered a card game. The card games (or hell, even games that primarily require mental skill in general) that most people are used to give little advantage to the person with the most money. The fact that this particular card game relies to a great deal on the willingness of the player to buy expensive cards is thusly a little off-putting, to say the least.
Rob
I just noticed that they put Medieval: Total War on the list. I'm not sure why; even they admitted that it wasn't all that strategic in the real-time component. This also brings up the question, "Why not include Myth?" Myth is just as worthy of being on an RTS list as Total War is.
Rob (Note that I didn't use the word "begs," grammarians)
I believe that the definition of "RTS" that would be the closest to the truth is this:
A game wherein two or more sides, each of which has a base on a single battle map, build facilities and units in order to destroy the opposing base(s) while defending its own in real time.
This definition excludes games where you don't build units or facilities on the battle map (e.g. the Total War games) or at all (e.g. Myth). Both of those examples would be real-time tactics (within a turn-based strategic shell, in the case of the former). As for games like Europa Universalis, one could consider the world map upon which you play to be a battle map.
Oh, and SimCity doesn't involve battle, therefore you can't really consider it "strategic." (The term implies a military aspect.) "Simulation" would indeed be the best label to give it, as it simulates the real-world process of city-building (though perhaps not very realistically).
Rob
If I had known that it would be a Diablo clone, I never would've picked it up. Cheers to the people who decided to make the DS engine useful with this remake.
Rob
I think this guy's pretty effectively removed himself from the gene pool already.
Rob
One in 2^8 (256).
But what are the odds of the next coin coming up heads? That is the question.
BTW, I wouldn't put much creedence in these video game predictions unless they computed the results a hundred or a thousand times to eliminate the effects of chance. That would take too long to do unless you used the much less accurate "quick simulation" mode, though.
Rob