Anonymous does whatever he fucking feels like, whether it is sending an old man birthday cards or bullying a child. There is no rhyme or reason to it because Anonymous is a disorganized swarm made up of people of all ages and cultures. "Anonymous" is a constantly rotating, relatively small sample of a large, global population.
Trying to predict Anonymous is pointless. There is no command structure, no ultimate goal. Most of the activities partaken that affect the outside world start as pet projects of individuals and gain traction through spamming and samefagging (because everyone posts anonymously, it is easy to pretend to be multiple people to take advantage of the group mentality there).
This particular incident was started by someone close to the man in question and spammed endlessly over the course of several days leading up to the event. It was a shameless abuse of/b/ as his personal army, but it succeeded because it was relatively novel and interesting.
As someone who's been on the internet longer then any of you old or new fags, let me tell you this.
Get off my lawn.
Swear to god, you oldfags, newfags, are a bunch of little girls squabbling in a public message board. Yes, your the big fag, seeing as you can claim your old fag and preach how you, i mean, 4chan isn't this and that, and does what it wants, and no one tells it to do anything because it's not your personal army. yet, somehow, it does do things, because someone got creative on how to spam it in 4chan.
And notice how I'm not posting anonymous? unlike you, i'm not scared to stand behind what I say, right or wrong, i said it.
With the budget of today's games, its most likely that 3d gaming will be a "one and done" experiment for most studios. I just cant see the sales of 3d titles having enough sales to be self sustaining and frankly the gimmicky nature of 3d will likely weaken the traditional 2d experience resulting in lower game sales overall. I have yet to find anyone who has invested in any 3d gear or anything with the intention in investing.
Spoken like someone who has never actually played a Stereoscopic 3D game.
... I feel that I might have some worthwhile knowledge of Stereoscopic 3D games.
First off, 3D in games isn't as gimmicky as 3D in movies, not by a long shot. If the dev programs the game with 3D in mind, then things like the UI, blood splatters don't pull you out of the 3D experience.
Like games that have the blood splatter on your screen? Looks killer on 3D.
Games like Left 4 Dead (1 & 2) the 3D is very, very good on it. It makes zombie killing a little more realistic. Need For Speed World? While the 3D isn't perfect on it (some ghosting), the game is a lot better to play in 3D.
Titan's Quest and Torchlight in 3D is have to play to understand. The game looks like toys or something while you are playing.
Some games, like Alien Breed the lighting is messed up on it, so it doesn't look good in 3D, but if they fixed that, would be killer.
As for the gun sight, ya, that matters. What nvidia does with 3D Vision is has a "laser sight" you can toggle on and off (you have to turn off ingame targeting crosshairs) if the game doesn't do the 3D on it correctly. I don't use it much, but some games like Fallout 3 you have to use it. And yes, Fallout 3 is better on 3D.
Honestly, dev's don't have to do much extra but test their games under 3D to see what elements need to be fixed. Games that are made in a 3D engine already have what is needed. Unlike TV or Movies, the games are made from 3D models, so getting the 2nt camera viewpoint is easier to do, and why games look way better then any 3D movie can.
Plus I don't think people understand, buying a 3D TV doesn't mean you can start playing 3D games. For example, 3D Vision users need the 3D vision hardware, a 120khz Monitor (that's supported, currently most tv's aren't) to get 3D gaming. Cost is just over $500 (Acer GD235HZ 1080p monitor & 3D Vision). Not to mention running a game is 3D means your cutting your normal frames per sec down by half. So you need some powerful video cards to play the latest games (that are being made with 3D in mind) with decent frame rates, which normally mean 60fps.
Need for Speed World. Normally, I can do 1080p at 60fps with all settings maxed. But to get 60fps, I have to cut the graphics down to medium. If I don't, the 3D in the game doesn't look right, tends to cause headaches & eye strain more. Which is more or less true with most of the games.
Granted the Nvidia GTX 460 1G cards are cheap and give great fps, mainly in sli. but still, that's another $500 cost.
So $1000 will get you a great 3D gaming setup, that can play 3D movies, if you get a bluray player for your computer.
3D in games is great as long as it's does right. And it takes some playing around with the 3D to figure out what works for you. Will most gamers want/need it? No. Besides entry cost is sort of high, it doesn't work good for every type of game, and there's sort of a split on what to get between PC & consoles/tv/bluray 3D players.
I think the biggest problem with 3D is no standards. This isn't a case of tech that is going to be adopted by everyone, so having standards is important for market growth. You don't want to have to buy a 3D HDTV, a 3D bluray player (ps3), and a 3D Monitor & 3D kit for your pc.
Like with 3D bluray movies. With hardly any of those movies being released, they stupidly make them exclusive bundles with 3D hardware. I mean, wtf? Instead of making 3D movies easier for early tech adoptors, they make it harder.
I still haven't found any decent 3D movie downloads yet, so I don't even know how they look on my setup. But I got it for gaming, and it does gaming well, and I'm very happy with spending the money I did on it. Anyone that comes over and sees games in 3D, start wanting to get it.
I think though part of it is they had a sony jig and knew that there was a way to get the usb to special boot the PS3.
While they could just of made a copy of the jig, that would be a very illegal product. So they had to figure a way to get the system to do the same thing, without having the actual hardware.
It's sweet. Now a PS3 seems like it might be worth getting, but probably not.
Technically, the judge HAS tried her. The judge has the authority to convict her of contempt of court. Up here, when a juror does that, they're looking at up to 2 years in jail, which is one reason why you don't see jurors talking about jury deliberations even decades after a trial - what is said in deliberations is forever secret.
It's funny, because if you're a white, middle-class male you're automatically exempt from like 90% of the free money for college, and yet like 90% of the kids I go to school with are white, middle-class males.
Strings will get tangled and knotted, no matter how hard you try to keep them seperated. Strings will break when there is no easy way to replace it. Strings causes cats to stop what they are doing, just to try to grab it.
As far as I can work out, this is a follow on from a game previously released 14 years ago? is this correct? So who will care about its release apart from some very old-skool gamers? I guess it's just a kind of in-joke for old slashdot fans these days?
Who did you buy your 5 digit UID from?
Seriously though, what?
Get off your dad's account kid, let the grownup do the talking here.
But I'll tell you, since your dad probably beats you for being around the computer.
Duke Nukem was a popular First Person Shooter back when you were just swimming around your dad's balls. But the dude who made it, had a great idea for a version called Duke Nukem Forever. Unfortunetly, dude don't know shit about business, or programming, so he never released teh game. But he kept working on it. New 3D engine would come out, he'd port the game to that, and never get it finished.
So ya, it's a joke around slashdot and well, the internet for anyone who's been around for a few years and likes PC gaming and First Person Shooters.
Actually, you should be glad that DNF never got released, because it meant your dad actually went out and knocked your mom up, thus ending with you (and him having to get married and thus, ruined for life).
So, instead of running around trolling with his account, why don't you log out his account, google Duke Nukem Forever, and learn a little history on why your dad's still a chump.
(please note, this post is just a joke. I don't know fantomas, I don't know his/her kids, etc. I am, stoned a bit, and thought I was being funny. If I'm not, and I offended you, not my intention, but I'll take what I can get out of this.)
It will be the ultimate insult to GB and Fox WHEN Stephen gets about 1M more people there than Glen did.
It will show that Americans care more about comedy than about politics. Why would it be surprising in a country where only a small percentage of the people vote?
whats the point of voting? The corporations & lawyers win, no matter which person you vote for.
I'd rather spend the time getting stoned so I will think everything is okay.
While the Sega Master System wasn't over considered a fail console (but much like the game gear, I find the controls really fucking crappy), the game, 3D Missile Command rocked.
The simplistic color scheme, while convenient, suggests preschool.
We're manly men(who blow aliens to bits and save the universe), not thumbsucking infantiles pulling on our See-N-Says.
Well, I like the colors cause it's easier for me to remember that green is the bottom button, not that it's the A button (seeing as it's in the B button location on other controllers i have.)
But to each his own. I don't find the D-pad that bad myself.
But honestly, I love the 360 gamepad. I like having analog triggers. Makes racing games better then the stupid on/off digital other controllers have.
In fact, i'm off to play some Need For Speed World now (in 3D Vision even) that the game finished updating.
What about teaching students to hack into computer systems? That's fairly common and fairly well accepted...and in those exercises it's not just a 'think of a way to do this', it's a 'here is a server, here is a PC, go do it'.
In mid 80's my office teacher used to give me disks she got as demo for new software to figure out how to copy for her because the school was too cheap to buy the software for her.
Granted she didn't teach me how to do it, i figured it out on my own, but she allowed me to do it and use computers to do it.
We don't have a 2 party system. It's 1 party, Money. The Corporate Party.
Corporations don't care if your Republican or Democrat. They are backing both parties. All they want is favorable laws for them so they can make more money. That is it.
If you think one party is going to be better in the long run, it won't.
We have let our political system fail us, and honestly, it's time we fixed it. And the government.
Shit ain't going to get better. That's not how it works. We have a fail system that has to be rebuilt, or we will soon become a 3rd rate country.
We can do nothing and hope this all goes away, but let me ask you this.
Has it? Are we better off now then we were 10 years ago? 20 years ago?
You ready for the next 10 years, or the next 20 years?
*Note I don't have a political party I belong to. I seriously don't believe in them. I used to think I was a democrat, but I woke up to reality. Ya, there's other policital parties, but I don't follow them. I'm told the pirate party has similiar ideals, but they are about fixing it from the inside. I believe the inside is broken beyond repair. No need to fix, just need to restart with a new foundation built on the principals our country was founded on, not what it's come to be.
not because you are right leaning, but because you reject truth, you reject OBVIOUSLY NEUTRAL NEWS SOURCES in favor of OBVIOUSLY BIASED OPINION
show me a left leaning person who professes the same stupidity, and i will say the same thing about them!
because the problem, son, is not being conservative, or liberal
in fact, i would WELCOME an intellectually honest conversation with an honest open minded intelligent conservative, FOR ONCE
but they seem to all be dead. they seemed to have been taken over by the bleacher creatures, cretins like yourself who OPENLY and WITHOUT SHAME, as a mark of PRIDE (amazing!), trumpet the fact that they PREFER rumor, innuendo, and outright deceit... over neutral news sources
incredible. stunning. very sad for the country i love
intelligent conservativism is dead. long bleat the sheep: biased, and PROUD OF IT
incredible! i still cant' get over how proud you are of your self-professed ignorant
you actually believe your closed minded, walled off garden of bias, is a source of strength
WOW
how does one deal with such zombified people?
Maybe you shouldn't come to public forums looking for intelligence? Or maybe you have the Dunning-Kruger Effect, I don't know.
But honestly, if I'm looking for intelligent convo, it wouldn't be at a public forum.
I used to be a high school teacher. You'd be amazed at how stupid the students think you are, and how amazed they are when they find out you have an actual life outside of school.
Also, they think you can't hear or see 3 feet beyond the teacher's desk.
No, I was a high school student once, I remember how smart we thought we were.
lol
It's funny, cause now as an adult, I see kids doing crap I used to do, and just ignore them, and I figure they probably don't think I know whats going on.
He got a new body when he has some powers of the Keeper of Traken remaining. I think he got more lives as a "thank-you" for his help in the Time Lord vs. Daleks Time War.
I figured it was limited because there was more timelords, since he's the only one left, there's no point in limiting it.
Since the tardis helps with it, and the tardis is telepathic & whatnot, then that makes sense. It knows to keep regenerating him because there isn't any others left.
At least, that's how I'd get around the limit if i wrote for them.
As an oldfag over at 4chan, let me tell you this:
Anonymous does whatever he fucking feels like, whether it is sending an old man birthday cards or bullying a child. There is no rhyme or reason to it because Anonymous is a disorganized swarm made up of people of all ages and cultures. "Anonymous" is a constantly rotating, relatively small sample of a large, global population.
Trying to predict Anonymous is pointless. There is no command structure, no ultimate goal. Most of the activities partaken that affect the outside world start as pet projects of individuals and gain traction through spamming and samefagging (because everyone posts anonymously, it is easy to pretend to be multiple people to take advantage of the group mentality there).
This particular incident was started by someone close to the man in question and spammed endlessly over the course of several days leading up to the event. It was a shameless abuse of /b/ as his personal army, but it succeeded because it was relatively novel and interesting.
As someone who's been on the internet longer then any of you old or new fags, let me tell you this.
Get off my lawn.
Swear to god, you oldfags, newfags, are a bunch of little girls squabbling in a public message board. Yes, your the big fag, seeing as you can claim your old fag and preach how you, i mean, 4chan isn't this and that, and does what it wants, and no one tells it to do anything because it's not your personal army. yet, somehow, it does do things, because someone got creative on how to spam it in 4chan.
And notice how I'm not posting anonymous? unlike you, i'm not scared to stand behind what I say, right or wrong, i said it.
With the budget of today's games, its most likely that 3d gaming will be a "one and done" experiment for most studios. I just cant see the sales of 3d titles having enough sales to be self sustaining and frankly the gimmicky nature of 3d will likely weaken the traditional 2d experience resulting in lower game sales overall. I have yet to find anyone who has invested in any 3d gear or anything with the intention in investing.
Spoken like someone who has never actually played a Stereoscopic 3D game.
It is nothing like 3D movies. At all.
... I feel that I might have some worthwhile knowledge of Stereoscopic 3D games.
First off, 3D in games isn't as gimmicky as 3D in movies, not by a long shot. If the dev programs the game with 3D in mind, then things like the UI, blood splatters don't pull you out of the 3D experience.
Like games that have the blood splatter on your screen? Looks killer on 3D.
Games like Left 4 Dead (1 & 2) the 3D is very, very good on it. It makes zombie killing a little more realistic.
Need For Speed World? While the 3D isn't perfect on it (some ghosting), the game is a lot better to play in 3D.
Titan's Quest and Torchlight in 3D is have to play to understand. The game looks like toys or something while you are playing.
Some games, like Alien Breed the lighting is messed up on it, so it doesn't look good in 3D, but if they fixed that, would be killer.
As for the gun sight, ya, that matters. What nvidia does with 3D Vision is has a "laser sight" you can toggle on and off (you have to turn off ingame targeting crosshairs) if the game doesn't do the 3D on it correctly. I don't use it much, but some games like Fallout 3 you have to use it. And yes, Fallout 3 is better on 3D.
Honestly, dev's don't have to do much extra but test their games under 3D to see what elements need to be fixed. Games that are made in a 3D engine already have what is needed. Unlike TV or Movies, the games are made from 3D models, so getting the 2nt camera viewpoint is easier to do, and why games look way better then any 3D movie can.
Plus I don't think people understand, buying a 3D TV doesn't mean you can start playing 3D games. For example, 3D Vision users need the 3D vision hardware, a 120khz Monitor (that's supported, currently most tv's aren't) to get 3D gaming. Cost is just over $500 (Acer GD235HZ 1080p monitor & 3D Vision). Not to mention running a game is 3D means your cutting your normal frames per sec down by half. So you need some powerful video cards to play the latest games (that are being made with 3D in mind) with decent frame rates, which normally mean 60fps.
Need for Speed World. Normally, I can do 1080p at 60fps with all settings maxed. But to get 60fps, I have to cut the graphics down to medium. If I don't, the 3D in the game doesn't look right, tends to cause headaches & eye strain more. Which is more or less true with most of the games.
Granted the Nvidia GTX 460 1G cards are cheap and give great fps, mainly in sli. but still, that's another $500 cost.
So $1000 will get you a great 3D gaming setup, that can play 3D movies, if you get a bluray player for your computer.
3D in games is great as long as it's does right. And it takes some playing around with the 3D to figure out what works for you. Will most gamers want/need it? No. Besides entry cost is sort of high, it doesn't work good for every type of game, and there's sort of a split on what to get between PC & consoles/tv/bluray 3D players.
I think the biggest problem with 3D is no standards. This isn't a case of tech that is going to be adopted by everyone, so having standards is important for market growth.
You don't want to have to buy a 3D HDTV, a 3D bluray player (ps3), and a 3D Monitor & 3D kit for your pc.
Like with 3D bluray movies. With hardly any of those movies being released, they stupidly make them exclusive bundles with 3D hardware. I mean, wtf? Instead of making 3D movies easier for early tech adoptors, they make it harder.
I still haven't found any decent 3D movie downloads yet, so I don't even know how they look on my setup. But I got it for gaming, and it does gaming well, and I'm very happy with spending the money I did on it. Anyone that comes over and sees games in 3D, start wanting to get it.
I think though part of it is they had a sony jig and knew that there was a way to get the usb to special boot the PS3.
While they could just of made a copy of the jig, that would be a very illegal product. So they had to figure a way to get the system to do the same thing, without having the actual hardware.
It's sweet. Now a PS3 seems like it might be worth getting, but probably not.
then again, maybe so.
Technically, the judge HAS tried her. The judge has the authority to convict her of contempt of court. Up here, when a juror does that, they're looking at up to 2 years in jail, which is one reason why you don't see jurors talking about jury deliberations even decades after a trial - what is said in deliberations is forever secret.
Thought that was Vegas...
It's funny, because if you're a white, middle-class male you're automatically exempt from like 90% of the free money for college, and yet like 90% of the kids I go to school with are white, middle-class males.
Wait, there's a middle class still?
Strings will get tangled and knotted, no matter how hard you try to keep them seperated.
Strings will break when there is no easy way to replace it.
Strings causes cats to stop what they are doing, just to try to grab it.
What other string theories am I missing?
God I love lynx. Can't infect my shit.
Of course, i have to borrow my neighbors computer to post here, lynx don't do web 2.0.
But I'm sure there's be a lynxweb2.0 fork anytime now...
As far as I can work out, this is a follow on from a game previously released 14 years ago? is this correct? So who will care about its release apart from some very old-skool gamers? I guess it's just a kind of in-joke for old slashdot fans these days?
Who did you buy your 5 digit UID from?
Seriously though, what?
Get off your dad's account kid, let the grownup do the talking here.
But I'll tell you, since your dad probably beats you for being around the computer.
Duke Nukem was a popular First Person Shooter back when you were just swimming around your dad's balls. But the dude who made it, had a great idea for a version called Duke Nukem Forever. Unfortunetly, dude don't know shit about business, or programming, so he never released teh game. But he kept working on it. New 3D engine would come out, he'd port the game to that, and never get it finished.
So ya, it's a joke around slashdot and well, the internet for anyone who's been around for a few years and likes PC gaming and First Person Shooters.
Actually, you should be glad that DNF never got released, because it meant your dad actually went out and knocked your mom up, thus ending with you (and him having to get married and thus, ruined for life).
So, instead of running around trolling with his account, why don't you log out his account, google Duke Nukem Forever, and learn a little history on why your dad's still a chump.
(please note, this post is just a joke. I don't know fantomas, I don't know his/her kids, etc. I am, stoned a bit, and thought I was being funny. If I'm not, and I offended you, not my intention, but I'll take what I can get out of this.)
It will be the ultimate insult to GB and Fox WHEN Stephen gets about 1M more people there than Glen did.
It will show that Americans care more about comedy than about politics. Why would it be surprising in a country where only a small percentage of the people vote?
whats the point of voting? The corporations & lawyers win, no matter which person you vote for.
I'd rather spend the time getting stoned so I will think everything is okay.
Rally, Blaze, I'm not sure I want what is coming next.
Blaze? it's actually hempfest?
sweet!!!
Yes, yes, I had it backwards. What's so hard about not misunderstanding what I didn't not say?
Jumpin' Jesus Christ on a cross....
That makes the dyslexic in me want to scream.
While the Sega Master System wasn't over considered a fail console (but much like the game gear, I find the controls really fucking crappy), the game, 3D Missile Command rocked.
Still have my Sega Shutter Glasses.
The simplistic color scheme, while convenient, suggests preschool.
We're manly men(who blow aliens to bits and save the universe), not thumbsucking infantiles pulling on our See-N-Says.
Well, I like the colors cause it's easier for me to remember that green is the bottom button, not that it's the A button (seeing as it's in the B button location on other controllers i have.)
But to each his own. I don't find the D-pad that bad myself.
But honestly, I love the 360 gamepad. I like having analog triggers. Makes racing games better then the stupid on/off digital other controllers have.
In fact, i'm off to play some Need For Speed World now (in 3D Vision even) that the game finished updating.
See my reply earlier on in this discussion. We didn't keep any of the Cray software, unfortunately.
do you regret that now?
What about teaching students to hack into computer systems? That's fairly common and fairly well accepted...and in those exercises it's not just a 'think of a way to do this', it's a 'here is a server, here is a PC, go do it'.
In mid 80's my office teacher used to give me disks she got as demo for new software to figure out how to copy for her because the school was too cheap to buy the software for her.
Granted she didn't teach me how to do it, i figured it out on my own, but she allowed me to do it and use computers to do it.
Here we have Hemp. Has a shit load of great uses, is an annually renewable source that doesn't tap nutrients from the ground, but is illegal.
Here we have Nicotine. Has 1 use. Is bad for people, but legal.
God, I hate the art of the cover of books.
You get this great picture, then while I read the story, the picture in my head looks like stick figures!!!!
God that sucks.
It doesn't matter anymore.
We don't have a 2 party system. It's 1 party, Money. The Corporate Party.
Corporations don't care if your Republican or Democrat. They are backing both parties. All they want is favorable laws for them so they can make more money. That is it.
If you think one party is going to be better in the long run, it won't.
We have let our political system fail us, and honestly, it's time we fixed it. And the government.
Shit ain't going to get better. That's not how it works. We have a fail system that has to be rebuilt, or we will soon become a 3rd rate country.
We can do nothing and hope this all goes away, but let me ask you this.
Has it? Are we better off now then we were 10 years ago? 20 years ago?
You ready for the next 10 years, or the next 20 years?
*Note I don't have a political party I belong to. I seriously don't believe in them. I used to think I was a democrat, but I woke up to reality. Ya, there's other policital parties, but I don't follow them. I'm told the pirate party has similiar ideals, but they are about fixing it from the inside. I believe the inside is broken beyond repair. No need to fix, just need to restart with a new foundation built on the principals our country was founded on, not what it's come to be.
has no relevance"
do i laugh?
or do i cry?
sir: you are the downfall of this country
not because you are right leaning, but because you reject truth, you reject OBVIOUSLY NEUTRAL NEWS SOURCES in favor of OBVIOUSLY BIASED OPINION
show me a left leaning person who professes the same stupidity, and i will say the same thing about them!
because the problem, son, is not being conservative, or liberal
in fact, i would WELCOME an intellectually honest conversation with an honest open minded intelligent conservative, FOR ONCE
but they seem to all be dead. they seemed to have been taken over by the bleacher creatures, cretins like yourself who OPENLY and WITHOUT SHAME, as a mark of PRIDE (amazing!), trumpet the fact that they PREFER rumor, innuendo, and outright deceit... over neutral news sources
incredible. stunning. very sad for the country i love
intelligent conservativism is dead. long bleat the sheep: biased, and PROUD OF IT
incredible! i still cant' get over how proud you are of your self-professed ignorant
you actually believe your closed minded, walled off garden of bias, is a source of strength
WOW
how does one deal with such zombified people?
Maybe you shouldn't come to public forums looking for intelligence? Or maybe you have the Dunning-Kruger Effect, I don't know.
But honestly, if I'm looking for intelligent convo, it wouldn't be at a public forum.
Apparently in America it's okay for teachers to bug their students.
But in Sweden, it's not okay for students to bug their teachers.
2 different countries, 2 different set of laws on stuff.
So comparing them is sort of stupid, seeing as Sweden probably has different laws then the USA.
So basicly, while we are all pretty sure you can't bug the teachers in the USA, it's still up in the air if Swedish teachers can bug their students.
Waiting on that to happen and see what the Swedish do about it.
Until then, there is NO compare.
Ya know..... the same way the case in Pennsylvania was dropped when the teachers were caught spying on the girls' bedrooms.
Psyche.
Spying == okay when it's a government employee. Some people are more equal than others.
You do understand that Sweden isn't a part of America right? It has it's own laws to abuse, I mean, use.
I used to be a high school teacher. You'd be amazed at how stupid the students think you are, and how amazed they are when they find out you have an actual life outside of school.
Also, they think you can't hear or see 3 feet beyond the teacher's desk.
No, I was a high school student once, I remember how smart we thought we were.
lol
It's funny, cause now as an adult, I see kids doing crap I used to do, and just ignore them, and I figure they probably don't think I know whats going on.
Stupid kids make for some good stories though.
Tom Perrilli, as Verrilli’s former boss
Seriously, what are the odds of that? 1 letter difference between the last names?
He got a new body when he has some powers of the Keeper of Traken remaining. I think he got more lives as a "thank-you" for his help in the Time Lord vs. Daleks Time War.
I figured it was limited because there was more timelords, since he's the only one left, there's no point in limiting it.
Since the tardis helps with it, and the tardis is telepathic & whatnot, then that makes sense. It knows to keep regenerating him because there isn't any others left.
At least, that's how I'd get around the limit if i wrote for them.