No, you can't possibly understand what vsync is doing, and apparently have neither read the article nor heard of triple buffering.
The problem you describe is true--if the card is rendering below the refresh rate, and triple-buffering (an extremely common option these days) is turned off. In this case, given the article text, I think it's safe to assume that the framerate is well above refresh.
When that happens, vsync is effectively a frame rate limiter. Sure, a game could keep updating the back buffer, but in practice I've never heard of one that does.
Now what would be really neat is if they used that back buffer to put motion blur between the original render and the current render, and do that as fast as possible until the display is ready. It would end up with a tv-like smoothness, no tearing, and... burned up video cards, it appears.
Well I'm less respectful, so you're wrong, and dumb.
As a trivial example, I have 2 monitors. Even when playing a full-screen game, my video card still has an entire other monitor to render. Sure, it's usually not doing much, just 4 gkrellm windows and the clock changing, but the game doesn't know that and has no way of knowing that. I could have 3 monitors, I could be playing a new version of Q-Bert with ultra-mega 3-D graphics on another monitor while cutscenes I don't care about are playing.
Even if it were physically impossible for another program to be running, they'd still be wrong if they render the same scene pixel-for-pixel twice in a row, or if they render a pixel change that happens when the monitor physically can't display it, and that argument can be taken all the way to its inevitable conclusion that they are uselessly hastening the heat death of the universe, which YOU are encouraging you entropy polluting son of a bitch.
They have that. My card has that, it's just disabled by default and locked at 40% duty cycle. RivaTuner doesn't even have to be running for the fan to spin up when the card gets hot now that I've changed the setting.
Of course, if the fan can't handle the heat, yeah, the card will burn itself out. Which is ridiculous, given that the card is already aware of its temperature. But hey, what motivation do they have to stop people who obviously put a lot of work through their cards from buying new ones when the fan breaks?
Uh, no, eating as much GPU power as possible to render a static scene hundreds of times a second on a display that can only probably display 60 frames per second is not an example of properly-written software. In fact, it's just plain stupid, and nearly as wrong as you can possibly be.
That said, it shouldn't have any effect on graphics cards other than making less resources available to other concurrently-running programs, and Blizzard should in no way be blamed for breaking people's cards.
If a process, like a webserver, could erase itself from a hard drive by benign input, it would be a bug. This is no different.
My graphics card, a GTX 275, was factory locked to a 40% duty cycle on the fan, no matter how hot it got. I had to resort to RivaTuner to make the fan auto-adjust speed based on temperature. Since there is no speed limit where I'm putting people's lives at risk for rendering too many frames per second, or any other reasonable reason to limit the amount of work a card can do before it destroys itself when the hardware is perfectly capable of doing that work without destroying itself, the only conclusion is that it is defective.
That said, anything that doesn't use vsync is stupid, period, always, (unless you're benchmarking or trying to warm a cold room). Spending that extra processing power on a proper motion blur would have a far greater effect on perceived smoothness.
The vast bulk of your argument is dedicated to defending C, which he never mentioned and only an imbecile would call the core language rules complex.
C++, which you barely mention, on the other hand, is extremely complex at its core, mostly due to its templating language--which, by the way, is one of the very best features of C++, and although it could be (and will be in C++0x (0x more like 2x amirite)) done better, I think the expressiveness is well worth the complexity. Again, only an imbecile would call C++ simple.
The real question to ask when somebody chooses to bash C++, however, is "what are you selling?" In this case, he's fairly up-front about it--he's selling Go, Google's pet language. To that, I say, "I'll believe it when I see it." Right now Go is a bunch of "but just look at the groundwork we've laid down! This will be great when it's done!" As the article mentioned, that may be true, but its complexity will approach C++ as its capabilities do. It's just hard to do a lot of stuff well, and for all the complaining, C++ does do a lot of stuff, and it does most of it well, or at least... eh, pretty good.
Honestly, look over the C++ challengers: every one I've ever seen that's squarely aimed at taking out other languages is little more than an ego project. I have yet to see a language that actually introduces new capabilities without significant downsides compared to what they're trying to replace, so I'll keep doing what's worked for me the last 10 years I've been a C++ fanboy: wait for something that's actually better to come out. Smugly.
But the main issue is that the GPS+ 3g connection needs more power than my car connector can deliver:-(
What? A model-T with one of those shaker flashlights taped to the engine and harvesting its vibrations should be able to power that stuff, you're talking about a fully passive receptor for the GPS and one that people can carry around in their pocket powered by a tiny battery all day long. Your car cigarette lighter probably has a 15-amp fuse, which is the same one you run your hair drier through at home.
That's a categorical answer, but for Rotten.com in particular, trust me, if you ever have to deal with gore in real life, you'll be glad for every ounce of desensitization you got.
Because it is a trifling little problem, but some people, mostly those who were just waiting for something so they could go, "AH-HA! GOTCHA! It was a terrible phone all along and you just TRICKED people into loving it, I was right!" or our generation's talking heads scrambling for blog content so they can get that 3,049th Twitter follower, are FREAKING THE FUCK OUT about it, but it's apparently a difficult issue to get people to understand on a rational level so whoever shouts the loudest gets heard.
I mean, most of the people who are concerned about this wouldn't know a dBm from a DMB, have never even thought about statistics or their own perceptual biases, and couldn't tell you how many calls they dropped on their old phone with hypnotic recollection therapy and a good night's sleep. If I were in Apple's position, I'd be tempted to say, "Hey, I don't care, you're retarded, here's your money back, fuck you!" Obviously I'd still try to fix the issue, but these people braying on and on and on and onn and onnnnn and onnnnnnnnn about this are SO
FUCKING
ANNOYING
I can hardly stand it. "Durr durr hey did you hear about the antenna issue bla blah blah THE ANNTENNA ISSUE OH MY GOD THE ANTENNA ISSUE HOW DO YOU LIKE THAT YOU FUCKING HIPSTER YEAHHH SUCK IT"
Whatever, man. I don't care. I never tried to sell you on this fucking phone, hell I try not to even pull it out around people still, three fucking years later, because it's always a production of some sort, and all I wanted was a good phone that works and has a good web browser and I can SSH around with. What is with your weird sense of personal vindication over this? Why did you become so invested in it that it's now impossible to back down from the position that the phone is an absolute lemon, not worth the PCB it's printed on, without looking dumb? You don't even own the phone, or stock in Apple's competitors! It's just this weird-ass absolutely irrational hate and I don't give a fuck what you think about it anymore. I don't care if people yelling is what forced Apple to address the issue. I don't care how serious it is, I don't care just go yell amongst yourselves and stop letting your hysteria over Apple antennas and Toyota accelerators and Chinese hallucinogenic children's toys (ok that one was real, and craaazy) bother me and get good stuff taken away because it offends some insane sense of Wright and Rong (tm) that you have.
Holy, I did not know I had that in me. Feels good to get it all out.
What on earth makes you think they're going to give up on encryption just because they're going with a connector that encourages senior citizens to plug 100W output cable boxes into their cable modems' ethernet port?
How exactly is throwing different nouns in the same sentence absent any contextual connection an argument?
Comparing Southerners to Afghans, or throwing the very country that's compared into the comparison sentence, or comparing US Christians to Middle-Eastern Islamics, or the poor people of the Middle East to the poor people of the US is just ridiculous. In the context we're discussing, they're simply not comparable. If you think they are, that would explain why you make such a poor argument.
Also, how exactly is 100 years of GDP in wealth not of great worth? You don't think that will change a country? Really? $1 Trillion of found wealth would be a huge thing for the US, for Afghanistan it's an absolute game-changer. They will never, ever get the big countries fingers out of there now, and should be planning how to survive being the towel between two dogs. Somebody savvy enough could turn that into as much profit as the minerals themselves are worth, somebody foolish will practically pack it up and ship it out at their own cost just trying to curry favor.
Explain why not wanting to reserve space for snapshots is using a computer improperly, because that's a pretty major claim given that nearly every filesystem that supports snapshots doesn't require reserving space for them at filesystem creation time, and a number of block-level systems support it as well.
I can't parse your first question. Your second question makes no sense either. I don't want to reserve space inside the partition, I want to use space in the filesystem.
I don't want to try to estimate the amount of space I'm going to use in snapshots and then make a permanent decision before even creating the filesystem.
I don't want to unnecessarily fragment my filesystem by filling it to 95%, while 20% of the disk is sitting unused just in case I want to take a snapshot.
I don't want to do the above and then still overrun my snapshot space while my filesystem still has free space because I didn't make a perfectly prescient estimate.
It's dumb, there's no reason for it other than a dogmatic clinging to some "right" way to do things. Not every system that needs to be snapshotted is a server with years of usage history and hot-swappable disks owned by a company that can afford to oversize their disks by 50% or more.
LVM snapshots suck because you can't store the snapshot data on the filesystem you're snapshotting. Sure, there's tons of ways to come up with extra space to store the snapshot data in, but they're all gigantic pains in the ass.
All it needs is the ability to exclude particular blocks from the snapshot, which should be a ridiculously easy option to implement for anyone who's worked on the snapshot code, and then people who aren't experts in kernel hacking can take care of the rest of the layers to make it a user-friendly operation, but nobody will do that because of hurf durfy crap that doesn't account for how people actually use computers.
By mitigate, I mean mitigate your annoyance to others. Don't hide it, you're a fruitcake, just be a fruitcake. But acting like you're saving my fucking life and I should be eternally grateful because you got "chemical" smells banned offends me infinitely more than even your awful b.o. You're doing it because you've concocted some weird theory of irritants and health meters and are worried that your own health meter is red and flashy, so don't pretend to give a shit about others when you know for a fact that even if it was discovered that the smell of tetra-hydra-peroxipterodactyl added 10 years to your life and b.o. caused impotence you wouldn't change a thing.
Also as annoying as I personally find your kind, I don't wish a bike accident or anything on you, and I wouldn't be happy in even the smallest way if you did get plowed by a Dow Chemical delivery truck while biking and coughing your high-pitched cough through the inner city to the farmer's market that's taking up all the fucking parking in my office complex.
I mean, I wouldn't cry 'cause I'm not a fag, but I would genuinely feel bad for you and your family.
Bullshit. Go visit a hospital, you will smell nothing but harsh chemical disinfectants, and the occasional shit, pus, or rotting infection. Hundreds of thousands of people work in that all day, every day, for years and years and years and years and years, and are just fine.
You are a gigantic over-sensitive faggot who whines at levels of discomfort that most people wouldn't even notice and are made uncomfortable by things that are mostly invented in your own head, just accept it and don't try to apologize or justify or even mitigate it, and you will be a lot less annoying.
And yet, somehow, people in the 60s managed to not whine like little cunts whenever they walked down the street.
I'm not saying I don't want clean air, but you fags that get the vapors every time you detect the slightest scent that isn't your own b.o., patchouli, or hummus are twice as irritating as anything I've ever breathed, and I used to smoke.
Slashdot Mirror
No, you can't possibly understand what vsync is doing, and apparently have neither read the article nor heard of triple buffering.
The problem you describe is true--if the card is rendering below the refresh rate, and triple-buffering (an extremely common option these days) is turned off. In this case, given the article text, I think it's safe to assume that the framerate is well above refresh.
When that happens, vsync is effectively a frame rate limiter. Sure, a game could keep updating the back buffer, but in practice I've never heard of one that does.
Now what would be really neat is if they used that back buffer to put motion blur between the original render and the current render, and do that as fast as possible until the display is ready. It would end up with a tv-like smoothness, no tearing, and ... burned up video cards, it appears.
Well I'm less respectful, so you're wrong, and dumb.
As a trivial example, I have 2 monitors. Even when playing a full-screen game, my video card still has an entire other monitor to render. Sure, it's usually not doing much, just 4 gkrellm windows and the clock changing, but the game doesn't know that and has no way of knowing that. I could have 3 monitors, I could be playing a new version of Q-Bert with ultra-mega 3-D graphics on another monitor while cutscenes I don't care about are playing.
Even if it were physically impossible for another program to be running, they'd still be wrong if they render the same scene pixel-for-pixel twice in a row, or if they render a pixel change that happens when the monitor physically can't display it, and that argument can be taken all the way to its inevitable conclusion that they are uselessly hastening the heat death of the universe, which YOU are encouraging you entropy polluting son of a bitch.
They have that. My card has that, it's just disabled by default and locked at 40% duty cycle. RivaTuner doesn't even have to be running for the fan to spin up when the card gets hot now that I've changed the setting.
Of course, if the fan can't handle the heat, yeah, the card will burn itself out. Which is ridiculous, given that the card is already aware of its temperature. But hey, what motivation do they have to stop people who obviously put a lot of work through their cards from buying new ones when the fan breaks?
Uh, no, eating as much GPU power as possible to render a static scene hundreds of times a second on a display that can only probably display 60 frames per second is not an example of properly-written software. In fact, it's just plain stupid, and nearly as wrong as you can possibly be.
That said, it shouldn't have any effect on graphics cards other than making less resources available to other concurrently-running programs, and Blizzard should in no way be blamed for breaking people's cards.
If a process, like a webserver, could erase itself from a hard drive by benign input, it would be a bug. This is no different.
My graphics card, a GTX 275, was factory locked to a 40% duty cycle on the fan, no matter how hot it got. I had to resort to RivaTuner to make the fan auto-adjust speed based on temperature. Since there is no speed limit where I'm putting people's lives at risk for rendering too many frames per second, or any other reasonable reason to limit the amount of work a card can do before it destroys itself when the hardware is perfectly capable of doing that work without destroying itself, the only conclusion is that it is defective.
That said, anything that doesn't use vsync is stupid, period, always, (unless you're benchmarking or trying to warm a cold room). Spending that extra processing power on a proper motion blur would have a far greater effect on perceived smoothness.
The vast bulk of your argument is dedicated to defending C, which he never mentioned and only an imbecile would call the core language rules complex.
C++, which you barely mention, on the other hand, is extremely complex at its core, mostly due to its templating language--which, by the way, is one of the very best features of C++, and although it could be (and will be in C++0x (0x more like 2x amirite)) done better, I think the expressiveness is well worth the complexity. Again, only an imbecile would call C++ simple.
The real question to ask when somebody chooses to bash C++, however, is "what are you selling?" In this case, he's fairly up-front about it--he's selling Go, Google's pet language. To that, I say, "I'll believe it when I see it." Right now Go is a bunch of "but just look at the groundwork we've laid down! This will be great when it's done!" As the article mentioned, that may be true, but its complexity will approach C++ as its capabilities do. It's just hard to do a lot of stuff well, and for all the complaining, C++ does do a lot of stuff, and it does most of it well, or at least ... eh, pretty good.
Honestly, look over the C++ challengers: every one I've ever seen that's squarely aimed at taking out other languages is little more than an ego project. I have yet to see a language that actually introduces new capabilities without significant downsides compared to what they're trying to replace, so I'll keep doing what's worked for me the last 10 years I've been a C++ fanboy: wait for something that's actually better to come out. Smugly.
But the main issue is that the GPS+ 3g connection needs more power than my car connector can deliver :-(
What? A model-T with one of those shaker flashlights taped to the engine and harvesting its vibrations should be able to power that stuff, you're talking about a fully passive receptor for the GPS and one that people can carry around in their pocket powered by a tiny battery all day long. Your car cigarette lighter probably has a 15-amp fuse, which is the same one you run your hair drier through at home.
Yes.
That's a categorical answer, but for Rotten.com in particular, trust me, if you ever have to deal with gore in real life, you'll be glad for every ounce of desensitization you got.
If this is your definition of broken hardware, then no.
Because it is a trifling little problem, but some people, mostly those who were just waiting for something so they could go, "AH-HA! GOTCHA! It was a terrible phone all along and you just TRICKED people into loving it, I was right!" or our generation's talking heads scrambling for blog content so they can get that 3,049th Twitter follower, are FREAKING THE FUCK OUT about it, but it's apparently a difficult issue to get people to understand on a rational level so whoever shouts the loudest gets heard.
I mean, most of the people who are concerned about this wouldn't know a dBm from a DMB, have never even thought about statistics or their own perceptual biases, and couldn't tell you how many calls they dropped on their old phone with hypnotic recollection therapy and a good night's sleep. If I were in Apple's position, I'd be tempted to say, "Hey, I don't care, you're retarded, here's your money back, fuck you!" Obviously I'd still try to fix the issue, but these people braying on and on and on and onn and onnnnn and onnnnnnnnn about this are SO
FUCKING
ANNOYING
I can hardly stand it. "Durr durr hey did you hear about the antenna issue bla blah blah THE ANNTENNA ISSUE OH MY GOD THE ANTENNA ISSUE HOW DO YOU LIKE THAT YOU FUCKING HIPSTER YEAHHH SUCK IT "
Whatever, man. I don't care. I never tried to sell you on this fucking phone, hell I try not to even pull it out around people still, three fucking years later, because it's always a production of some sort, and all I wanted was a good phone that works and has a good web browser and I can SSH around with. What is with your weird sense of personal vindication over this? Why did you become so invested in it that it's now impossible to back down from the position that the phone is an absolute lemon, not worth the PCB it's printed on, without looking dumb? You don't even own the phone, or stock in Apple's competitors! It's just this weird-ass absolutely irrational hate and I don't give a fuck what you think about it anymore. I don't care if people yelling is what forced Apple to address the issue. I don't care how serious it is, I don't care just go yell amongst yourselves and stop letting your hysteria over Apple antennas and Toyota accelerators and Chinese hallucinogenic children's toys (ok that one was real, and craaazy) bother me and get good stuff taken away because it offends some insane sense of Wright and Rong (tm) that you have.
Holy, I did not know I had that in me. Feels good to get it all out.
Why?
They're adjacent on a CRT too.
What on earth makes you think they're going to give up on encryption just because they're going with a connector that encourages senior citizens to plug 100W output cable boxes into their cable modems' ethernet port?
Put a gun against his head
What in the FUCK is up with that dude's fingernails?
full of win
Ugh.
Just because being wrong doesn't necessarily make you an idiot, that doesn't make you not an idiot for being wrong.
How exactly is throwing different nouns in the same sentence absent any contextual connection an argument?
Comparing Southerners to Afghans, or throwing the very country that's compared into the comparison sentence, or comparing US Christians to Middle-Eastern Islamics, or the poor people of the Middle East to the poor people of the US is just ridiculous. In the context we're discussing, they're simply not comparable. If you think they are, that would explain why you make such a poor argument.
Also, how exactly is 100 years of GDP in wealth not of great worth? You don't think that will change a country? Really? $1 Trillion of found wealth would be a huge thing for the US, for Afghanistan it's an absolute game-changer. They will never, ever get the big countries fingers out of there now, and should be planning how to survive being the towel between two dogs. Somebody savvy enough could turn that into as much profit as the minerals themselves are worth, somebody foolish will practically pack it up and ship it out at their own cost just trying to curry favor.
Explain why not wanting to reserve space for snapshots is using a computer improperly, because that's a pretty major claim given that nearly every filesystem that supports snapshots doesn't require reserving space for them at filesystem creation time, and a number of block-level systems support it as well.
I can't parse your first question. Your second question makes no sense either. I don't want to reserve space inside the partition, I want to use space in the filesystem.
It's dumb, there's no reason for it other than a dogmatic clinging to some "right" way to do things. Not every system that needs to be snapshotted is a server with years of usage history and hot-swappable disks owned by a company that can afford to oversize their disks by 50% or more.
LVM snapshots suck because you can't store the snapshot data on the filesystem you're snapshotting. Sure, there's tons of ways to come up with extra space to store the snapshot data in, but they're all gigantic pains in the ass.
All it needs is the ability to exclude particular blocks from the snapshot, which should be a ridiculously easy option to implement for anyone who's worked on the snapshot code, and then people who aren't experts in kernel hacking can take care of the rest of the layers to make it a user-friendly operation, but nobody will do that because of hurf durfy crap that doesn't account for how people actually use computers.
By mitigate, I mean mitigate your annoyance to others. Don't hide it, you're a fruitcake, just be a fruitcake. But acting like you're saving my fucking life and I should be eternally grateful because you got "chemical" smells banned offends me infinitely more than even your awful b.o. You're doing it because you've concocted some weird theory of irritants and health meters and are worried that your own health meter is red and flashy, so don't pretend to give a shit about others when you know for a fact that even if it was discovered that the smell of tetra-hydra-peroxipterodactyl added 10 years to your life and b.o. caused impotence you wouldn't change a thing.
Also as annoying as I personally find your kind, I don't wish a bike accident or anything on you, and I wouldn't be happy in even the smallest way if you did get plowed by a Dow Chemical delivery truck while biking and coughing your high-pitched cough through the inner city to the farmer's market that's taking up all the fucking parking in my office complex.
I mean, I wouldn't cry 'cause I'm not a fag, but I would genuinely feel bad for you and your family.
Bullshit. Go visit a hospital, you will smell nothing but harsh chemical disinfectants, and the occasional shit, pus, or rotting infection. Hundreds of thousands of people work in that all day, every day, for years and years and years and years and years, and are just fine.
You are a gigantic over-sensitive faggot who whines at levels of discomfort that most people wouldn't even notice and are made uncomfortable by things that are mostly invented in your own head, just accept it and don't try to apologize or justify or even mitigate it, and you will be a lot less annoying.
And yet, somehow, people in the 60s managed to not whine like little cunts whenever they walked down the street.
I'm not saying I don't want clean air, but you fags that get the vapors every time you detect the slightest scent that isn't your own b.o., patchouli, or hummus are twice as irritating as anything I've ever breathed, and I used to smoke.
Your wife is an annoying twat.
Absolutely crushing responsible drivers in traffic accidents.