From what I remember of the stories on IGN, Kingdom Hearts II is set for a release in Japan late this year/early next year (I think. Go check out IGN to be sure).
And as for Advent Children, they've confirmed that it'll get a theatrical release (prolly Japan only) Sept 10, US DVD/UMD release Sept 13, and Japanese DVD/UMD release the day after (the 14th).
No bait and switch was made.
Bait and switch is when they advertise Seasame Street, and give you Manhunt.
This is someone going in and modifying the game code to get to this previously unavailable content.
I keep saying this and saying this, but no one listens.
Right now, people are blaming politicians, or old ladies, but no one is flat out saying that Rockstar SCREWED UP! I'm saying it and I'm going to keep saying it because I feel that they DID screw up and big time too!
Probably because the majority of us don't feel that Rockstar screwed up. This is unused content. Unused content is on every game disc in existence; as people have said previous in this thread and others, it's far easier (and cost-effective) to remove unused content (levels, minigames, etc) from the game, but leave it on the disc, locked away.
What Rockstar did is no worse than a film editor cutting out a raunchy scene from a movie, and leaving it on the cutting room floor. Yeah, people found the minigame, but that's akin to breaking into the storage room of the editing facility and stealing the unused film footage.
If this is your stance on Rockstar, where's your stance on God of War, with it's blantant sex minigame at the end of the first stage? I don't have ready access to the ratings of both games, but I bet you they are the same, and close to it.
Any nudity in the game is an actual, full-blown user mod. As in, someone had to go in and add a nude skin to the game files.
Which puts it in the realm of after-market modification, and Rockstar isn't any more responsible than EA is for people making nude skins for The Sims or (as I found out the other day) people hacking World of Warcraft to get naked Night Elves.
Why should the publisher be responsible for unused content? That's like holding a filmmaker responsible for stuff that's on the cutting room floor. Yeah, it'll get out to the public eventually, in the form of blooper reels, deleted scenes on DVD, or who knows what, but it's content that was not included in the normal experience; sitting in a movie theater watching the regular cut, sitting on your couch playing an unmodified version of a game.
Stuff like this will ruin the world of modification, which brought us stuff like Counterstrike and gobs of other great content. Game makers will lock their content down like it was Fort Knox, so you have to sign your soul and your first born away before you can make any sort of modification. Most people won't like that, so any sort of replayability will go out the window. For computer games, whether or not you can mod a game is the deciding point for purchase for alot of people. What's the point of dropping $50-$60 on a game if you can play through it once?
Sure, but the ESRB details on the package should list "Nudity" or "Partial nudity" separately -- especially in this case, the nudity was prolonged. If Rockstar/Take2 had disclosed the Hot Coffee segment to th ESRB, they probably would have included "Nudity."
Except the "Hot Coffee" mod, which is not part of the normal game, that which the consumer will see through normal means (and by which the ESRB rates) doesn't have nudity. So that kills that argument because 1) Hot Coffee isn't part of the normal game and 2) There's no nudity.
The problem is that when you say 'the parent absolutely has to be involved for the transaction', it amounts to this:
Lil' Timmy: Mommy mommy, I want this game! Parent: Okay. Wage slave, I wish to purchase this game! Wage Slave: But ma'am, this is Bloodstorm X. It's rated Mature. He's only ten, he shouldn't have this game. Parent: I DON'T CARE!!! IT'S A VIDEO GAME!!! THEREFORE ITS GOOD FOR MY BOY!!!
And then at that point, even if the wage slave continues to try and convince the parent that this isn't a kid's game, the manager will wander over and bitchslap him, while ringing the sale up.
And then when Lil' Timmy stops taking his drugs, goes crazy, and kills the school football team for that last swirlie, it'll be Bloodstorm X's fault, not the parent for ignoring all the warnings.
That's the problem here, and that is what needs to be resolved, not retailers selling games to minors. It's parents buying games for minors.
OH MY GOD! UNCLOTHED MANNEQUINS! THE CHILDREN!! THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!
Holy hell, this guy is a fruit cake. He hasn't even played the game, or watched video of it. To his credit, he issued an ammendment saying that...
Thompson this afternoon updated his earlier statement, saying he is aware certain mods only remove "the blur," but adds that "Electronic Arts has done nothing about this." Thompson's new conclusion: EA is "cooperating, gleefully, with the mod community to turn Sims 2 into a porn offering."
I'd be more impressed if the guy provided some way to crosscheck what he's showing with the actual google maps. Because I've been looking for the past hour (or whenever this story got posted), and I haven't found squat to back his story up.
More often than not though, in this country, it's not the parents who let their children get ahold of the guns that get blamed, but it's the gunmakers and any other media production entity that can be remotely linked with the children.
This latest GTA fiasco, for instance, or the hooplah after Columbine. They went after everyone but the parents who ignore the two of them, and the jocks who made their lives hell.
Really? I always thought it was like a forcefield or energy shield or something to protect them from the rigors of space, because it sure didn't look like those faceplates had actual faceplates.:)
The ESRB rates a game based on what will be seen during the course of normal gameplay. Furthermore, the ESRB doesn't even do it themselves, they have a panel of Joe and Jane Average, parents and doctors and people completely unrelated to video games (IE: the fucking idiots that just buy a game for their kids without looking at the ratings) watch a video of normal gameplay, in order to rate a game.
Demanding that San Andreas now be rated AO (Adults Only) because of content that is not a part of normal play and specifically requires a modification (whose legality is questionable), is inane. It's like demanding that the newest PG-rated DVD release be rerated NC-17, for all time, because the DVD has deleted scenes of a couple of people (real, unclothed people, no less, not two fully clothed computer generated polygonal models) having sex.
Do you even stop and listen to yourself? Rockstar made the content, and then cut it out of normal gameplay. The modding aside, this is like people freaking out over the deleted scenes in a movie's DVD release. It wasn't in the fully movie. It is optional as to whether someone sees is. And if you are a parent who is pissed about your under-17 kid seeing this content, he shouldn't be playing the game anyway, and you need to go refresh yourself on the rating system.
If I remember correctly, IGN was Snowball. Or owned by Snowball. Or something like that.
It's a pity that IGN bought out Gamespy. What? You say it was a merger? Hah. Gamespy had the online multiplayer tech that IGN wanted, and got bought out, lock, stock, and barrel. Look at how money-driven Fileplanet has gotten recently? IGN Insider, anyone?
I miss when game sites were fun, and the internet was free.
What's worse is that SciFi is ripping off their own pseudo-B-movie schlock.
Look at what they aired last night. Sabretooth and Attack of the Sabretooth. The only difference is in one, the sabretooth breaks out of a science lab and eats scientists, but in the other, the sabretooth breaks out of a zoo and eats coeds.
What geniuses come up with this shit? As mentioned, they drove both LEXX and Farscape into the ground, and try to make good by getting Claudia Black and Ben Browder work on SciFi, yet they still stock the rest of their broadcast day with utter crap.
They are sitting on a goldmine of old SciFi programming, if they still actually have the rights for it. Star Trek (the original series), Space: Above and Beyond, Farscape, LEXX, and gobs of other stuff that I can't even remember the names for, but they used to play when the channel first launched. They need to start playing that stuff again, instead of the utterly craptactular 'SciFi originals' movies and reality-TV.
I appreciate that you are taking the time to communicate your concerns and opinions regarding matters before the California State Legislature. Because I receive a high volume of mail, it is impossible for me to respond to every message as promptly as I would like.
My first priority is to reply to my constituents. If you live in the 12th Assembly District, which includes San Francisco, Broadmoor, Colma, and a portion of Daly City, please be sure that your message includes your name and complete mailing address. I will make every effort to respond to your message via the U.S. Postal Service. This will allow me to include written materials that you may find informative.
Again, thank you for your message. Please know that your comments are important to me and will be given full consideration.
It's not often that I feel the need to send a letter to a "duly elected government representative" (as much as they actually represent me), but this one did it. Just for fun, I copied it below. Sent to Assemblymember Yee, just in case anyone else wants to tell him to get his nose out of other people's business.
---------
Dear Assembly Member Yee,
In reading my news for the day, I came across several articles referencing your "blasting" of the ESRB in regards to the rating it provided to Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas (Official Press Release: http://democrats.assembly.ca.gov/members/a12/press/p122005060.htm).
To begin, I am twenty-four years old, with a 14-month old son. I am very much a part of the 'video-game generation', as I often use video games to unwind after a days worth of work and caring for my son. These games range from the previous mentioned Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas and beyond.
In reading the press release, I felt that you had a few good points, and a few points that were off-base. It is true that Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas contained the remnants of a coded "sex mini-game", depicting animated characters going through previous choreographed motions of various acts of sexual intercourse. Sexual intercourse between (in the theme of the game), consenting adults. However, what you failed to mention was that in order for anyone to access this minigame, they have to go to the lengthy trouble of modifying the actual game code for Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas. I have been working with computers, for both work and recreational purposes, for a decade, and I can safely say that because it requires the modification of the game code beyond the parameters that Rockstar North coded, this is not something that an individual will just run into during the course of playing the game. An individual has easier access to "soft-core pornography" on late night cable; actual pornography, and not two rendered, clothed computer models going through the motions.
That was a lengthy discourse as to the point you missed. I will now address a point that you did address. The press release, and prior press releases, indicates that you feel that games such as Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas, Manhunt, and other M-rated games (which, for the recorded, is defined on the ESRB {http://www.esrb.com/esrbratings.asp} website as a game which may contain intense violence, blood and gore, sexual content, and/or strong language.). You are correct. Such games are not made for children. Not all games are made for children. Just as movies such as The Godfather (R), Apocalypse Now Redux (R), Scarface (R), and Saving Private Ryan (R) are classified by the MPAA (www.mpaa.org) under the Voluntary Movie Rating System as being not for children, these M-Rated games are also being classified under a voluntary rating system as not suitable for children.
I feel that voluntary rating systems are the key point here. Both motion pictures and video games carry a classification designed to inform the purchaser of the product as to what they will be experiencing in the normal course of viewing/playing. Video game producers such as Rockstar North are not forcing parents to buy Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas for their 12-year old child, just as Francis Ford Coppola never forced parents to take their 12-year old child to see Apocalypse Now (or Apocalypse Now Redux, released in 2001 as a directors cut). It is up to the parent to decide, based on their own purchases and experiences and research, whether or not a product is suitable for their underaged child. No one forces these parents to buy such games as Manhunt or Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas. The events that happen in the normal course of gameplay are not hidden from the purchaser; they are often depicted on the back of the box and in TV, we
The inherit problem with this is that the people who actually make the game, the developers and the programmers, and getting two things while their game goes on to make millions.
Can you guess what those two things are? Jack, and shit. And Jack is usually left out of the equation.
When it comes to video games, the publisher, while a necessary evil at this point in time, takes far too much credit for the product of the developer, and keeps far too much of the profit.
You are also missing the point that all the so-called 'lost profits' that keep coming up in discussions about downloading software (remember, no eyepatches involved!) are all bunk. If they see 1000 people on bittorrent downloading whatever new game came out, they assume that they are losing 1000 sales (1000 x 50 = $50,000 in lost profits according to their math). When in actually, probably a good portion of those people wouldn't have bought the game in the first place, because of various reasons; can't afford it, think it's a piece of shit, know it's a piece of shit because of testing out the cracked/downloaded version, etc. They pull these numbers out of their ass, in order to make their cause seem more just.
Is it unethical to take what you cannot afford? Probably. Is it theft? Not according to the dictionary definition. Theft involves taking a physical product away from a person, robbing them of the actual sale of that actual product. Downloading a copy of God of War is not the same as walking into EB and slipping a copy of God of War into your book bag.
Unfortuately, with the amount of money the publishers have from raping the developers, they can afford to push laws to just what you want: $75 a game, locked-in-stone EULAs giving them permission to do anything and everything to your computer while giving you permission to play the game you purchased if it's a Slurmday, and the electric chair for evil software 'pirates'. Yarr.
Back when VCRs first came out, the Supreme Court (or one of those higher up courts) ruled that recording a TV show off of the television was allowable, as it was simply "time-shifting" of the program to a point in time when you could watch it. I believe the same ruling was made on recording songs off the radio. It falls under fair use (I think. I could be wrong on the fair use part).
Although with broadcasters and radio stations screwing the timing up (shows starting at different minutes than just the top of the hour, ads or station ID over the beginning or end of songs), they are trying to discourage this nowadays, in order to get your attention and your money (from buying the CD, watching the show when they show it). They are also trying to get rid of the 'commercial-skipping' capabilities of various DVR products, because it's taking the food from their children's mouths, or so they'd have you believe.
It boils down to the media cartels buying laws to keep their outdated business model on life support.
The original deal that was approved in negotiations was something along the lines of a rate increase to $700/hr in the recording studio for the rank and file, no kickbacks/profit-sharing/residuals.
The upper echelons (IE: the ones earning seven digits a movie) said 'hell no, we want our dividends for our 1% contribution to the game!' which basically means rank and file doesn't get to work for what they are getting (like $300-$400/hr now, I think). Now the rank and file are telling the fat cats to STFU.
Of course, I applied to them for two years, and they never called me until the day I started the job I got cause they wouldn't hire me. What the hell...
Slashdot Mirror
And as for Advent Children, they've confirmed that it'll get a theatrical release (prolly Japan only) Sept 10, US DVD/UMD release Sept 13, and Japanese DVD/UMD release the day after (the 14th).
You all will be hearing from my lawyers for patent infringement.
No bait and switch was made.
Bait and switch is when they advertise Seasame Street, and give you Manhunt.
This is someone going in and modifying the game code to get to this previously unavailable content.
I keep saying this and saying this, but no one listens.
Probably because the majority of us don't feel that Rockstar screwed up. This is unused content. Unused content is on every game disc in existence; as people have said previous in this thread and others, it's far easier (and cost-effective) to remove unused content (levels, minigames, etc) from the game, but leave it on the disc, locked away.
What Rockstar did is no worse than a film editor cutting out a raunchy scene from a movie, and leaving it on the cutting room floor. Yeah, people found the minigame, but that's akin to breaking into the storage room of the editing facility and stealing the unused film footage.
If this is your stance on Rockstar, where's your stance on God of War, with it's blantant sex minigame at the end of the first stage? I don't have ready access to the ratings of both games, but I bet you they are the same, and close to it.
Which puts it in the realm of after-market modification, and Rockstar isn't any more responsible than EA is for people making nude skins for The Sims or (as I found out the other day) people hacking World of Warcraft to get naked Night Elves.
Why should the publisher be responsible for unused content? That's like holding a filmmaker responsible for stuff that's on the cutting room floor. Yeah, it'll get out to the public eventually, in the form of blooper reels, deleted scenes on DVD, or who knows what, but it's content that was not included in the normal experience; sitting in a movie theater watching the regular cut, sitting on your couch playing an unmodified version of a game.
Stuff like this will ruin the world of modification, which brought us stuff like Counterstrike and gobs of other great content. Game makers will lock their content down like it was Fort Knox, so you have to sign your soul and your first born away before you can make any sort of modification. Most people won't like that, so any sort of replayability will go out the window. For computer games, whether or not you can mod a game is the deciding point for purchase for alot of people. What's the point of dropping $50-$60 on a game if you can play through it once?
Except the "Hot Coffee" mod, which is not part of the normal game, that which the consumer will see through normal means (and by which the ESRB rates) doesn't have nudity.
So that kills that argument because 1) Hot Coffee isn't part of the normal game and 2) There's no nudity.
Lil' Timmy: Mommy mommy, I want this game!
Parent: Okay. Wage slave, I wish to purchase this game!
Wage Slave: But ma'am, this is Bloodstorm X. It's rated Mature. He's only ten, he shouldn't have this game.
Parent: I DON'T CARE!!! IT'S A VIDEO GAME!!! THEREFORE ITS GOOD FOR MY BOY!!!
And then at that point, even if the wage slave continues to try and convince the parent that this isn't a kid's game, the manager will wander over and bitchslap him, while ringing the sale up.
And then when Lil' Timmy stops taking his drugs, goes crazy, and kills the school football team for that last swirlie, it'll be Bloodstorm X's fault, not the parent for ignoring all the warnings.
That's the problem here, and that is what needs to be resolved, not retailers selling games to minors. It's parents buying games for minors.
Holy hell, this guy is a fruit cake. He hasn't even played the game, or watched video of it. To his credit, he issued an ammendment saying that...
Thompson this afternoon updated his earlier statement, saying he is aware certain mods only remove "the blur," but adds that "Electronic Arts has done nothing about this." Thompson's new conclusion: EA is "cooperating, gleefully, with the mod community to turn Sims 2 into a porn offering."
I'd be more impressed if the guy provided some way to crosscheck what he's showing with the actual google maps. Because I've been looking for the past hour (or whenever this story got posted), and I haven't found squat to back his story up.
This latest GTA fiasco, for instance, or the hooplah after Columbine. They went after everyone but the parents who ignore the two of them, and the jocks who made their lives hell.
Really? I always thought it was like a forcefield or energy shield or something to protect them from the rigors of space, because it sure didn't look like those faceplates had actual faceplates. :)
Demanding that San Andreas now be rated AO (Adults Only) because of content that is not a part of normal play and specifically requires a modification (whose legality is questionable), is inane. It's like demanding that the newest PG-rated DVD release be rerated NC-17, for all time, because the DVD has deleted scenes of a couple of people (real, unclothed people, no less, not two fully clothed computer generated polygonal models) having sex.
Do you even stop and listen to yourself? Rockstar made the content, and then cut it out of normal gameplay. The modding aside, this is like people freaking out over the deleted scenes in a movie's DVD release. It wasn't in the fully movie. It is optional as to whether someone sees is. And if you are a parent who is pissed about your under-17 kid seeing this content, he shouldn't be playing the game anyway, and you need to go refresh yourself on the rating system.
It's a pity that IGN bought out Gamespy. What? You say it was a merger? Hah. Gamespy had the online multiplayer tech that IGN wanted, and got bought out, lock, stock, and barrel. Look at how money-driven Fileplanet has gotten recently? IGN Insider, anyone?
I miss when game sites were fun, and the internet was free.
Look at what they aired last night. Sabretooth and Attack of the Sabretooth. The only difference is in one, the sabretooth breaks out of a science lab and eats scientists, but in the other, the sabretooth breaks out of a zoo and eats coeds.
What geniuses come up with this shit? As mentioned, they drove both LEXX and Farscape into the ground, and try to make good by getting Claudia Black and Ben Browder work on SciFi, yet they still stock the rest of their broadcast day with utter crap.
They are sitting on a goldmine of old SciFi programming, if they still actually have the rights for it. Star Trek (the original series), Space: Above and Beyond, Farscape, LEXX, and gobs of other stuff that I can't even remember the names for, but they used to play when the channel first launched. They need to start playing that stuff again, instead of the utterly craptactular 'SciFi originals' movies and reality-TV.
-----
Thank you for your email.
I appreciate that you are taking the time to communicate your concerns and opinions regarding matters before the California State Legislature. Because I receive a high volume of mail, it is impossible for me to respond to every message as promptly as I would like.
My first priority is to reply to my constituents. If you live in the 12th Assembly District, which includes San Francisco, Broadmoor, Colma, and a portion of Daly City, please be sure that your message includes your name and complete mailing address. I will make every effort to respond to your message via the U.S. Postal Service. This will allow me to include written materials that you may find informative.
Again, thank you for your message. Please know that your comments are important to me and will be given full consideration.
Sincerely,
LELAND Y. YEE, Ph.D.
Speaker pro Tempore
Assemblymember, 12th District
---------
Dear Assembly Member Yee,
In reading my news for the day, I came across several articles referencing your "blasting" of the ESRB in regards to the rating it provided to Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas (Official Press Release: http://democrats.assembly.ca.gov/members/a12/press /p122005060.htm).
To begin, I am twenty-four years old, with a 14-month old son. I am very much a part of the 'video-game generation', as I often use video games to unwind after a days worth of work and caring for my son. These games range from the previous mentioned Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas and beyond.
In reading the press release, I felt that you had a few good points, and a few points that were off-base. It is true that Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas contained the remnants of a coded "sex mini-game", depicting animated characters going through previous choreographed motions of various acts of sexual intercourse. Sexual intercourse between (in the theme of the game), consenting adults. However, what you failed to mention was that in order for anyone to access this minigame, they have to go to the lengthy trouble of modifying the actual game code for Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas. I have been working with computers, for both work and recreational purposes, for a decade, and I can safely say that because it requires the modification of the game code beyond the parameters that Rockstar North coded, this is not something that an individual will just run into during the course of playing the game. An individual has easier access to "soft-core pornography" on late night cable; actual pornography, and not two rendered, clothed computer models going through the motions.
That was a lengthy discourse as to the point you missed. I will now address a point that you did address. The press release, and prior press releases, indicates that you feel that games such as Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas, Manhunt, and other M-rated games (which, for the recorded, is defined on the ESRB {http://www.esrb.com/esrbratings.asp} website as a game which may contain intense violence, blood and gore, sexual content, and/or strong language.). You are correct. Such games are not made for children. Not all games are made for children. Just as movies such as The Godfather (R), Apocalypse Now Redux (R), Scarface (R), and Saving Private Ryan (R) are classified by the MPAA (www.mpaa.org) under the Voluntary Movie Rating System as being not for children, these M-Rated games are also being classified under a voluntary rating system as not suitable for children.
I feel that voluntary rating systems are the key point here. Both motion pictures and video games carry a classification designed to inform the purchaser of the product as to what they will be experiencing in the normal course of viewing/playing. Video game producers such as Rockstar North are not forcing parents to buy Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas for their 12-year old child, just as Francis Ford Coppola never forced parents to take their 12-year old child to see Apocalypse Now (or Apocalypse Now Redux, released in 2001 as a directors cut). It is up to the parent to decide, based on their own purchases and experiences and research, whether or not a product is suitable for their underaged child. No one forces these parents to buy such games as Manhunt or Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas. The events that happen in the normal course of gameplay are not hidden from the purchaser; they are often depicted on the back of the box and in TV, we
One hour, 3 reples later, and all the links are fried. Hilarious!
Fixed that for you.
And the 4 is repeating, of course.
You forgot that the Feed on Attack of the Show is usually 'Yesterday's Slashdot News - Today!'.
Can you guess what those two things are? Jack, and shit. And Jack is usually left out of the equation.
When it comes to video games, the publisher, while a necessary evil at this point in time, takes far too much credit for the product of the developer, and keeps far too much of the profit.
You are also missing the point that all the so-called 'lost profits' that keep coming up in discussions about downloading software (remember, no eyepatches involved!) are all bunk. If they see 1000 people on bittorrent downloading whatever new game came out, they assume that they are losing 1000 sales (1000 x 50 = $50,000 in lost profits according to their math). When in actually, probably a good portion of those people wouldn't have bought the game in the first place, because of various reasons; can't afford it, think it's a piece of shit, know it's a piece of shit because of testing out the cracked/downloaded version, etc. They pull these numbers out of their ass, in order to make their cause seem more just.
Is it unethical to take what you cannot afford? Probably. Is it theft? Not according to the dictionary definition. Theft involves taking a physical product away from a person, robbing them of the actual sale of that actual product. Downloading a copy of God of War is not the same as walking into EB and slipping a copy of God of War into your book bag.
Unfortuately, with the amount of money the publishers have from raping the developers, they can afford to push laws to just what you want: $75 a game, locked-in-stone EULAs giving them permission to do anything and everything to your computer while giving you permission to play the game you purchased if it's a Slurmday, and the electric chair for evil software 'pirates'. Yarr.
Although with broadcasters and radio stations screwing the timing up (shows starting at different minutes than just the top of the hour, ads or station ID over the beginning or end of songs), they are trying to discourage this nowadays, in order to get your attention and your money (from buying the CD, watching the show when they show it). They are also trying to get rid of the 'commercial-skipping' capabilities of various DVR products, because it's taking the food from their children's mouths, or so they'd have you believe.
It boils down to the media cartels buying laws to keep their outdated business model on life support.
I mean, it couldn't have been repeated exposure to horrible murder glorifying movie machines! (Look, I can coin phrases too!)
The upper echelons (IE: the ones earning seven digits a movie) said 'hell no, we want our dividends for our 1% contribution to the game!' which basically means rank and file doesn't get to work for what they are getting (like $300-$400/hr now, I think). Now the rank and file are telling the fat cats to STFU.
Of course, I applied to them for two years, and they never called me until the day I started the job I got cause they wouldn't hire me. What the hell...