Slashdot Mirror
GTA Sex Game Leads to ESRB Fracas
At first, it was nothing more than a rumour. A "sex mini-game" in Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas, left in the code for the PC version and unlocked by inquisitive players. Then, as more and more information became available it seemed as though the sex game might be real. This revelation has lead to California Speaker pro-tem Yee blasting the ESRB for their apparent slip-up in examining all the content in the game. The ESRB has responded by pledging a "thorough and objective investigation" of the claims to get to the bottom of the situation. Commentary is available from Joystiq, GamesAreFun, and Buttonmashing.
Did the ESRB rate the mini-games that came with MS office apps, namely the flight sim with Excel and the DOOM clone with Word?
---
Programming is like sex... Make one mistake and support it the rest of your life.
you mean, it's not a game - it's real ?? bring on the viagra !!
$ strings FTP.EXE | grep Copyright
@(#) Copyright (c) 1983 The Regents of the University of California.
how culpable could the ESRB be?
Politicians...
"As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly." A. Carlson
What? Software validation that MISSED SOMETHING?!?
How can the ESRB or even Rockstar be blamed for this? They removed the content from the game itself, its not their fault some gamers found a way to put it back in. Its funny how these people jump on anyone at anytime for no reason at all. The game is rated mature, and unless I live in some Bizzaro World im pretty sure just about every 17 year old has either had sex or seen porn.
fr0stage pistage
"sex game might be real" Anyone think this is going to get slashdotted fast?
think of the children!
BilldaCat
Sounds like they could have left it there on purpose, either because they didn't want to put the effort in to take it out, or they were hoping people would discover it and they would get a lot of free press over it.
So what's the problem again?
I hear that there's also a code you can enter into Leisure Suit Larry that unlocks a secret driving game.
Video of the sex game, apparently.
Really. No Kidding.
3D Printing Tips and Tricks at Zheng3.com
Well, we all know what wouldve been tje outcome if it was rated AO, dont we? (franchise erosion and death, etc.) so thank god it wasnt :)
Viable Slashdot alternatives: https://pipedot.org/ and http://soylentnews.org/
There's a lot of anti-computer-game sentiment in the world today, and the argument "we're adults, we can choose what to play" carries a lot more weight when games have ratings, so it's obvious to those who are choosing a game for a kid what's going to be in it.
So when game authors turn around and put stuff in a game, hidden, that go far beyond what the game rating indicates is in there, it does nothing to help our cause. It makes the game ratings unreliable, which means people who want to trust ratings (parents, say) suddenly have no indicator that they can trust, and their only fallback is "all games suck".
Either way, one hell of an Easter egg!
Honestly i've never seen the appeal in the GTA series. Never mind the parents blaming this for school shootings and violent kids. The first one was fun because it was simple. Now that it's gone 3d and the story is trotting further and further into the territory of craptastic american "gangsta" popular culture, the fun just isn't there.
If you ask me the ESRP should rate it "B for brainless".
my $0.02
You mean like this?
"Pro tempore or pro tem is a latin phrase which best translates to "for the time being" in English."
Honestly, I don't see how the ESRB could have known this stuff was there, without hacking every part of every game file. To get this stuff you have to manually change a couple game files. If it's something you have to consciously hack, and can't even get to in the course of (even wacky) gameplay, then it's not really part of the game.
Yes, the designers shouldn't have shipped the game with that stuff anyway, but that's not ESRB's fault, that's the coder's. Using this to scapegoat the ESRB is stupid.
Ahh, take your thorazine. And by the way, it's almost time for Wapner.
Mod down people who tell people how to mod in their sigs
How is this different from the whole "Nude Lara Croft" oldjimmery from the halcyon days of Tomb Raider?
Here is a link to the video the gta modders created as proof:
v
http://files.gtanet.com/gtasa/videos/hotcoffee.wm
But it's already slow, so good luck.
"PHP has encountered an Access Violation at 01BC3A4D"
i guess thats what you get for posting pr0n vids on slashdot. ;)
They disabled the code, and then modders put it back in. What's next, Valve being responsible for every Half-Life mod?
I've upped my standards, so up yours.
While I think it was probably bad judgement for the creators of the game to put this in the game, it's not like this is really part of the game anyways, kids aren't going to come across the in normal play or anything. I mean, surely any person who would go through the trouble it takes to get to this easter egg would be able to find far more graphic things on the web.
Here's a link to a movie of the mini-game from a site that's not dead (as of now). http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/pc/gta-sex-authentic- and-unlocked-107620.php
What's the problem? GTA SA is rated M. According to the ESRB, a game rated M for Mature can contain intense violence, blood and gore, sexual content, and/or strong language.
I have something to say. It's better to burn out than to FADE AWAY!
It's the responsibility of the ESRB to individually reverse engineer every game they review to make sure there's no naughty bits left in it. Some heads should roll over this.
The game is already rated M because of its violence, but sex in said game has the California legislature up in arms? Of all the "bad things" in the game it's the sex that's supposed to have pushed up to Ao?
The game developer/publisher is required to send in a video tape with questionable gameplay and a list of game cheats to access hidden areas. The ERSB is supposed to look at much of the game as possible before they set the rating. If stuff got left behind in the game that someone could unlock that would undermine the rating, it's not the ERSB fault. The developer/publisher should get reamed the next time that submit somthing to the ERSB.
The politicians should do something useful like hunting down real terrorists instead of getting their panties because they don't know the cheat code to the game.
http://files.gtanet.com.nyud.net:8090/gtasa/videos /hotcoffee.wmv
Next time use coral.
http://www.yonkis.com/media/hotcoffe_gta_sa.wmv
Nobody young enough to be traumatized by a "sex game" should be playing any of the GTA games at all to begin with. Once again, blame parents.
rooooar
As a parent, this concerns me.
I don't care if my child carjacks a senior.
I don't care if he runs over innocent bystanders.
I don't care if he joins the mafia.
I don't care if he kills police oficers.
I don't care if he picks up prostitutes then kills them to get their money.
I don't care if he takes a golf club and starts clubbing to death pedestrians.
But he may never, over my dead body, have adult on adult, consensual sex!
Clearly this game was misrated! It's rated "M" implying that it's suitable for no one under 17 when obviously it should get the highest rating of "AO" to reflect that no one under 18 should play it.
THAT EXTRA YEAR MAKES ALL THE DIFFERENCE!
So the ESRB was supposed to make a new game category? And how is this different from trying to get the hookers in your car? That is somewhat of a sex game. This should be no surprise.
-- Yes, I work for the government, and yes I am watching you.
It should? I've never seen that usage in this case. Just look at the Google results for "president pro tem" and "president pro temp" - 96,800 for the former, and only 674 for the latter. "pro tem" is simply an abbreviation of "pro tempore", nothing more.
Unless you work as time travelling salesman, you're outta luck.
In case you do though, put me down for 1000 shares worth of enron short...
You might want to contacte -of-the-senate
t em.html
http://www.answers.com/topic/president-pro-tempor
http://encarta.msn.com/dictionary_1861736369/pro_
and
http://dictionary.law.com/
Since they need to be "corrected" as well.
^o^
Clearly they wrote the code and then decided to play it safe and comment out the line that calls it before submitting the game for rating, replication, and distribution.
So someone comes along and adds the call to that disabled code back in and it's rockstar's fault.. how ?
How is this different from the nude models in Sims 2, or the console command to remove the pixelization when the sims are showering in that same game ? Surely EA Games aren't responsible for that ?
If you have to actually mod the game to "unlock" this then I don't see why this is the ESRB's business. The game Rockstar shipped deserved the rating it received. The game with the porn in it is a result of modification by the end user and therefore a different game from the ESRB's perspective. You could easily mod quake 3 so that, I don't know, all the textures are hardcore pornography, but that doesn't earn quake 3 an "adult" rating.
But, of course-- and this incident just goes to show this-- the ESRB isn't actually about allowing gamers to be informed about their purchases, or about allowing parents to responsibly monitor and regulate the video game usage of their children. Those things are just halfhearted side effects. The ESRB is about feeding and indulging hysteria and media hype concerning video games. With this goal in mind, of course, the ability to mod a game to unlock or insert porn becomes very much the ESRB's business.
Irritable, left-wing and possibly humorous bumper stickers and t-shirts
Because of people like Leland Yee, the American version of Sonic Gems will be significantly different than the Japanese version:
Sonic Gems Collection US = no Streets of Rage
So, Leland Yee can sit back and laugh, haw haw.I know my girlfriend's 10 year old daughter wouldn't be very interested in Streets of Rage, and I seriously don't think it is going to "affect" her if it were in a game. (Oh look, the little cartoon people are beating each other up, heaven forfend!) This particular case affects mostly people like me, older gamers who really want to play old Genesis games that we may have missed the first time around (I never got Streets of Rage III or Bonanza Brothers.) More broadly, it will effect games that aren't guaranteed sellers and cause the whole market to become more homogenized (while still being just as offensive to those of you who hate the ultra-violent games that are a license to print money.)
"MIT betrayed all of its basic principles."
Unless of course, you kill them first then have sex with them. That might need a new rating.
Isn't this game pretty hyper-violent anyway? Isn't it M already? Doesn't that already mean its not meant for kids?
So what about whether its a mod or hack, its just sex. I don't see how this would significantly change the subject or the rating of the game. I mean, given the choice of exposing my kid to sex or violence, I would much rather the sex.
I don't understand this country sometimes....
It must be odd talking to a GTA-playing patient that's feeling unsatisfied sexually.
"Well, I thought her excitement level was up, so I really started mashing her buttons, but all that did was piss her off? I had to up-and-down on joystick 1 by myself!"
Almost all the objectives are illegal and probably immoral in the GTA family of games (running random people over, or beating them up, shooting, stealing, running from the police, etc.).
Yet, the loudest complaints are over a removed objective that is actually perfectly legal in real life?
Astounding...simply astouding...
Ok i love the GTA games (well i enjoyed 1 and 2 but 3 onwards were amazing) , but lets get serious. . ,place car bombs , pick up hookers(and not see anything) and start random fights.
you can slaughter inocent civilians , slaughter multiple law enforcers and militarys personel
You can blow up countless cars
So why oh why does someone get so upety now that there is a small poisiblity that some hackers can acces posible code that allows you to see some sex.
Seriously , Game sex is far less offensive than game violence(like in real life) and game violence is just fun(so long as you can seperate reality and fiction)
The only things certain in war are Propaganda and Death. You can never be sure which is which though
Yee's final comment is strident: "Clearly the ESRB has a conflict of interest in rating these games, plain and simple, parents cannot trust the ESRB to rate games appropriately or the industry to look out for our children's best interests."
Gee, I've got an idea, maybe parents should look out for their children's best interests!
Seriously, though, what has this society come to?
Robert Bindler
A Computer Science student's views on technology.
I'm getting less than 1 kBps from that link, and the other one (linked in another post further down) simply stopped working altogether.
What if this signature were clever?
The ESRB rates what's submitted to them. Excel wasn't submitted hence no rating.
,it should have gotten an AO, Adults Only.
The issue with GTA:SA is that it was submitted and given an inappropriate rating. It recieved a MA, Mature Audience, and, __based on the ESRB's own published criteria__
USA is very interesting; it's okay to have a game where the goal is to become a "better" gangster, but as soon as you go below the belt every youth advocate start to cry. I rather have my kids playing with their wiener than playing with a gun. At least if it shoots itself by accident the only risk a stain, and a smile.
You know, if it turns out that this "sex game" is real, it just might be possible that "GTA" is not suitable for young children after all. This really changes things.
Where were you when the voynix came?
Woo! Shooting things! Reckless driving! Killing bystanders! Killing cops!
Wait, is that a boobie?! OMGWTF!!!!!1111one WE MUST PROTECT CHILDREN FROM THIS CORRUPTING INFLUENCE! THINK OF TEH CHILDREN!
Where do we get so many morons around here anyway? Have they been putting a moron virus in lunch meats for the past few generations or something?
Exactly. This is like getting all high and mighty because an NC-17 movie has unadvertised sex in it that was left on a master replication print that differed from a screener print. There are no stronger rating in games or movies, so what exactly is the ESRB expected to do? Apologize saying, "Oh, we're sorry. That should have been Stronger Sexual Content"?
... okay, I could understand why certain people were upset by that incident. But in this case it's nothing more than the Indecency Policeman getting on his moral high horse in order to make it seem as though he's oh-so-very-worried about the delicate values of the people that he so caringly represents. {/SARCASM}
... Yee's a D-California??? And he's worried about indecency? Wow! Who would have thought! (Yes, humorless mods, that's a joke.)
The game is not directed at kids and should not be purchased by kids. It says so right on the damned box!
Adding a topless woman in a frame of The Rescuers (Disney)
Wait a minute
Once again, a politician is out to make a huge fuss to prove to his constituency that he's worthy of re-election. "Molehill, I'd like you to meet your replacement, Mountain. Mountain is going to be my new Public Relations chief and head of my re-election campaign."
The Overrated mod is for reversing inappropriate, positive mods, not for voicing disagreement with a post.
Speaker Pro Tem Lee: "We gotta protect the children! Think of the children! What about the children!" "Harumph! Harumph! Harumph!".
Legislature: "Harumph! Harumph! Harumph!".
Lee: (pointing) "Hey! I didn't get a 'Harumph' outa that guy"
Hedy Lamar ("that's Hedley"): "Come on, give the Speaker Pro Tem a Harumph".
Guy: (meekly) "Harumph!"
Speaker Pro Tem Lee: (pointing again) "You watch your ass!"
No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism. - Winston Churchill
who spat coffee all over his monitor when he read this.
If indeed GTA is no longer appealing, then all of the fuss over stuff that the children could not possibly get to without a lot of help is just a lot of free advertising for Rockstar Games. Now there'll be a whole bunch of horny teens hacking the game for the sex games over the weekend!
To the making of books there is no end, so let's get started
which is rated Mature, not for teens
then why are they complaining if it's Mature, not for teens.
Time to get out the cluesticks, we're in short supply here in Soviet Amerika.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
I have writing "Mod parent up" posts, but I think this time it's semi-necessary. The mods who gave that rating to the grand parent post are quite wrong here.
As the parent said: The minigames included in Word and Excel have nothing to do with the ESRB, because Word and Excel (seeing as they're not games) were never submitted for a rating.
Part of the problem is opting to write these sorts of mini-games, when you know damn well you can't openly include them. Fine, produce them as "AO" extensions to the game, seperately packaged. They might even have made more money that way, as they could then charge extra for the mini-games that were too OTT to include as standard.
Another part of the problem is relying on third-party teams (who, in turn, rely on the company programmers) to tell them what is OK and for whom.
Probably the best way to have game ratings is to measure the quantity of something versus the maturity level needed to deal with it. Space Invaders has lots of violence, but doesn't require any maturity to handle that.
It would also allow for smarter choices. Two sixteen year olds can have very different maturity levels, so judging them as if they were identical is flawed from the start.
However, in order for this - or any other ratings system - to work, the company has to be honest as to what is there, easter eggs, disabled code, and all. In the end, I'm not completely convinced this game harms children, but I DO believe that the implied lack of trust and lack of honesty MAY VERY WELL harm children. In this case, I think there's been a lack of honesty all round.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
Here is a mirror on Bittorrent of the movie that is going much faster than any web server hosting the file: http://www.mybittorrent.com/info/bittorrent_info_g ames_145038.html
I have not seen the SA version. But, in the first GTA, couldn't you have sex with a hooker and then kill her to get your money back? How can there be hidden content that is any worse than the blatant content? A hard core porn video could only elevate the morality of this thing!
In fact, I demand less violence and more porn on television!
Angleyne: You can't bend that girder - it's unbendable! Bender: Well I don't know anything about lifting, so that ju
What's the difference between:
// do naughty things
//assume unoptomized compile // do naughty things
// do naughty things
Game:
Do step 1
Do step 2
Modded game:
Do step 1
Call mod_code
Do step 2
function mod_code:
and
Game:
Do step 1
If false call dead_code
Do step 2
function dead_code:
Modded game:
Do step 1
If true call dead_code
Do step 2
function dead_code:
The end result in both cases is the same:
The unmodded game does not do naughty things, the modded one does. The only real difference is in the 2nd case the unmodded game is bigger, and both the modded and unmodded games are infinitesimally slower due to the "if" statement.
If the publishers had properly used dead-code-eliminating compilers, certain types of left-over code hacks, like the one above, won't happen.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
In the movie world, there's the theatrical release, rated by the MPAA, and then, often, there's the unrated "Director's cut", with extra sex, violence, or long boring scenes, depending on what was cut in the first pass. Games may go that way. Would probably increase sales, too.
"M" is no one under 17
"AO" is no under 18
So to clarify, running over people, shooting people, killing police officers, stealing cars, etc. are all okay if you're 17. Consensual sex, on the other hand, you have to be 18 for.
Any idea if this "feature" is also available on the Xbox version of the game?
The US has strange attitudes about sex and violence. GTA:SA has (appropriately in my opinion) an M rating. The game allows you, if you choose, to:kill other gang members, cops and innocent bystanders in lots of gruesome ways (including setting them on fire or beating them to death with a big purple dildo); become a pimp; have sex with hookers; visit a strip club and get private dances; and lots of other mayhem. As part of the plot you need to kill or seduce a waitress at a casino who is into bondage.
But all of that is done without any nudity. Oh, but now it is revealed that if you hack the game you can see a blocky, pixellated bare boobie. Quick, somebody whip up some righteous indignation and start a fedral investigation! 17-year-olds need to be protected from boobies!
Don't moderate flamebait as Troll. Know the difference or you will be Meta-moderated.
Next thing you know, they are going to say that terrorists trained on GTA, and that is how they were able to make attacks. Scapegoats suck.
If you play the game backwards, satan is telling you to be nice to old ladies ...
http://files.gtanet.com.nyud.net:8090/gtasa/videos /hotcoffee.wmvCoral Cache Version (I averaged 63KB/sec, right before I submited on this post).
Lets just get one thing straight here:
In the land of the free, you have the absolute and undeniable right to keep and bare arms. However, you absolutely do not have the right to bare breasts. You can shoot your weapon all over your front lawn but don't even think about shooting your load.
Would someone like to explain the big deal here? I would be very worried about someone who is old enough to see violence but not sex. People who don't get laid are the ones who end up going on killing sprees.
This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
I am one of many people north of the border (Canada) who would love to see licensing parents become a reality. Then perhaps we would have better kids, etc.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Stealing cars, dealing drugs, killing and maiming police and civilians is ok... but sex? OH MY GOD NO! WON'T SOMEBODY THINK OF THE CHILDREN??? Sex is certainly not an acceptable or natural activity. Something must be done.
There are no stronger rating in games or movies, so what exactly is the ESRB expected to do? Apologize saying, "Oh, we're sorry. That should have been Stronger Sexual Content"?
:)
I forgot about the "AO" (Adults Only) rating, but effectively they're the exact same thing - both specifically stating that they're meant for adults. From the perspective of target audience, they're both at the exact, same audience. The difference between AO vs. M is purely perception.
Just wanted to get that in before someone else tries to be semantic at my inital post.
The Overrated mod is for reversing inappropriate, positive mods, not for voicing disagreement with a post.
i can watch deadly car accidents all day on the news, Fox's Americas worst street fights, body parts laying on the ground on the news, but HOLY SHIT! ALL OF AMERICA'S YOUTH HAS BEEN RIPPED APART BY A QUARTER SECOND OF A JANET JACKSONS NIPPLE!. give me a break.
"Once again, ESRB has failed our parents,"
its always great that even though it has done lots of great work, one slip up from a game with HIDDEN code, and its now an utter failure. perhaps now the ESRB should be responsible for decompiliing the code and sift through it all for hidden, not meant for the public, code. OR MAYBE they should yell at Rockstar. they just had to delete the lines. not comment it out.
Once again, Slashdotters are missing the point of this article. How, exactly, do you unlock a copy of GTA to make the game happen?
Mirrored here:
http://www.slashdot.org/hotcoffee.wmv
I need a sig.
Now, perhaps if this was the My Little Pony game and there was an easy hack to allow my little pony to join a donkey show in Tijuana and violate the PowerPuff girls in graphic detail with animations of horse-jism and blood squirting out of Buttercup as she's bent over the back of a chair and held down by the Mario Brothers and introduced to the animal kingdom then I could see some cause for concern. But for fuck's sake, it's GTA III. Leland Yee is a worthless, grandstanding sack of shit and what's amazing is that with this tantrum of his he manages to stand out from the other worthless, grandstanding sacks of shit that comprise the state government of California.
cheap labor conservatives - they want to keep you hungry enough to be thankful for minimum wage.
the mod creators website http://patrickw.gtagames.nl/ had all the info thats under debate...
All the contents of this mod was already available on the original disks. Therefor the scriptcode, the models, the animations and the dialogs by the original voice-actors were all created by RockStar. The only thing I had to do to enable the mini-games was toggling a single bit in the main.scm file. (Offcoarse it was not easy to find the correct bit). The Nude models that are used as a bonus in the Quick action version of the mod, were also already present on the original disk.
that is if you beleave him...(i see no reason not to, if it were a full mod, install files would need to be much bigger imho)
Noone writes jokes in base 13!
http://static.thepiratebay.org/downloadtorrent/334 4808.torrent/hotcoffee.wmv.3344808.TPB.torrent
http://www.ifilm.com/ifilmdetail/2673401?showw=no& amp;refsite=6721&htv=12&htv=12
Problem solved.
Rob
Try going to the OED. It's "pro tem". I *do* trust the Oxford English Dictionary.
Also, it's "a lot".
All this M/AO stuff is only applicable to the American market anyway.. in New Zealand, it was released marked R18, ie, not for sale to people aged under 18.
I hear Nethack has a hidden mini-game like this too.
There are T, M, AO categories
There is PG-13, R, NC-17 movie categories (skipping the earlier categories)
Then you have TV-Y, TV-Y7, TV-PG, TV-14 (not 13), TV-MA with [DLSV] suffix modifiers.
Is GTA:SA an X-rated game? No.
Definition for T-rating:
Titles rated T (Teen) have content that may be suitable for ages 13 and older. Titles in this category may contain violence, suggestive themes, crude humor, minimal blood and/or infrequent use of strong language.
Definition for M-rating:
Titles rated M (Mature) have content that may be suitable for persons ages 17 and older. Titles in this category may contain intense violence, blood and gore, sexual content, and/or strong language.
Definition for AO-rating:
Titles rated AO (Adults Only) have content that should only be played by persons 18 years and older. Titles in this category may include prolonged scenes of intense violence and/or graphic sexual content and nudity.
Now let's compare with TV and movie ratings:
On TV, this would probably fall under TV-MA, which is a catchall from R to NC-17 and up to premium channels such as TEN late night content.
TV-14:
Parents Strongly Cautioned
This program contains some material that many parents would find unsuitable for children under 14 years of age. Parents are strongly urged to exercise greater care in monitoring this program and are cautioned against letting children under the age of 14 watch unattended. This program contains one or more of the following: intense violence (V), intense sexual situations (S), strong coarse language (L), or intensely suggestive dialogue (D).
TV-MA:
This program is specifically designed to be viewed by adults and therefore may be unsuitable for children under 17. This program contains one or more of the following: graphic violence (V), explicit sexual activity (S), or crude indecent language (L).
R:
R:"Restricted, Under 17 Requires Accompanying Parent Or Adult Guardian."
In the opinion of the Rating Board, this film definitely contains some adult material. Parents are strongly urged to find out more about this film before they allow their children to accompany them.
An R-rated film may include hard language, or tough violence, or nudity within sensual scenes, or drug abuse or other elements, or a combination of some of the above, so that parents are counseled, in advance, to take this advisory rating very seriously. Parents must find out more about an R-rated movie before they allow their teenagers to view it.
NC-17:"No One 17 And Under Admitted."
This rating declares that the Rating Board believes that this is a film that most parents will consider patently too adult for their youngsters under 17. No children will be admitted. NC-17 does not necessarily mean "obscene or pornographic" in the oft-accepted or legal meaning of those words. The Board does not and cannot mark films with those words. These are legal terms and for courts to decide. The reasons for the application of an NC-17 rating can be violence or sex or aberrational behavior or drug abuse or any other elements which, when present, most parents would consider too strong and therefore off-limits for viewing by their children.
===
Sources: ESRB, TVguidelines.org, MPAA
Now, let's analyse this -
Can this game be legally considered obscene? No. That means it can fall under the NC-17-like rating. I am curious about the reasoning behind such an emphasis on one lousy year (need a parent if you are 17 or older and really can't see the content otherwise below 17, don't need one if you are 18). Why are the 17-year olds so punished? TV-14 rating gets it right - 14 or older, cool with us. Most R-rated movies are actually branded with TV-14 on TV. That means that they could be rated PG-13, for crying out loud. In fact, some earlier R-rated movies do in fact qualify for PG-13 rating under current guidelines.
In the case of AO and M - again we have 18 and 17. Again we have a difference
Leonid S. Knyshov
Find me on Quora
This is potentially the death knell for the ESRB. They are quite explicit in their direction to companies submiting games - all content, regardless of how it is accessed must be submitted for rating. Indeed, I'm not even sure if the ESRB gets playable versions of the games, they ask for footage of the most extreme sex and violence in the game. (They have guidelines to let you know what's significant.)
The only enforcement power that the ESRB has is the promise that if you try to trick them they will refuse to rate your games. If they won't rate your game you can't use their trademarked logos on your games. If you don't have a ESRB logo on your game the major retailers will refuse to carry your game.
So, here's the problem. GTA 4 is going to come out sometime. When it does there will be huge demand for it. If these claims hold true, the ESRB has a choice - either refuse to rate the game, and risk undermining their authority if stores carry the game anyway (and stores have to choose if they want to sell the game themselves, or risk introducing their customers to the competition if they are forced to buy the game on the Internet), or rate the game anyway and lose the only enforcement tool they have. Either way you have a neutered ESRB.
Why do we care? Because just like the movie ratings, the game ratings aren't in existence to be a form of thought police - they're there to prevent the goverment from creating thought police. Right now creating and selling an unrated game means you don't have access to Wal-Mart; if the government was in control your unrated game would be banned outright. Goodbye indie game scene.
The ESRB itself is agnostic about what kids are playing at what age - they just want to make sure that no one goes home and is surprised by what they've purchased. If this report is true, that's one hell of a surprise.
Walmart (and some others) refuse to stock AO titles. Means if your game gets an AO rating it's inaccessable to a large part of the market.
Same thing with NC-17 ratings on movies. The problem isn't that kids under 17 can't see it, there are plenty of older movie goers, the problem is most theatres will refuse to show it.
http://www.mybittorrent.com/info/bittorrent_info_g ames_145038.html
http://www.esrb.org/esrbratings_guide.asp#symbols
M is defined as "Titles in this category may contain intense violence, blood and gore, sexual content, and/or strong language."
AO is defined as "Titles in this category may include prolonged scenes of intense violence and/or graphic sexual content and nudity."
So, how exactly does GTA:SA violate M, and why should it be in AO?
Man, what a lame video. The graphics is ugly.
Just because we all want to score doesn't mean sex is a game. Although I must admit that I find it devilishly fun.
In fact, I think I'll just be off and find someone who's in the mood to play...
I was able to unlock the secret code in Counterstrike that allows me to choose "Hans Blix"
Next time you'r in in DE_DUST2, you might notice a guy in a suit with a briefcase , searching for the bomb.
Like many people, I like to ensure that the links to slashdot stories are as speedy and dependable as possible. In those situations where a file or site is loading in a slower fashion than is acceptable, I might even mirror or offer some alterative links to the same information.
In my process of "verifying" the footage in this story, I found all the links slow, and the movies taking forever to load. I am disappointed at how long it will take me to "verify" this footage.
My jury is still out at the root cause of this problem, but there is a current first-draft hypothesis that an article with the words SEX, INVESTIGATION, and GRAND THEFT AUTO: SAN ANDREAS that links to a video of characters having sex might be a contributing factor.
If someone could send me a copy of the file in question, I will be able to verify this myself, and then produce a further conclusion within a few days. Thanks.
The video of the game in action is called hotcoffee.wmv
;)
just do a search for that on google and you'll get lots of mirrors
Please be kind http://from.free.fr/hotcoffee.wmv
Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity
Explicit sex earns and Adult Only rating in the ESRB system which means that the game can't be sold in areas where minors can get it. This means Wal-mart amongst other places. The fact is that most M titles end up in the hands of kids much like R rated movies do, but NC-17 rated movies and AO games don't for good reason.
I can't believe they'd even code the feature. Did someone really think that they might be able to get that accepted in a retail game? Yeesh -- this isn't Japan.
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
Why isn't the sex still in the game. Let's look at this logically. Here's what's in the game: Street Racing, Drug Dealing, Gang Wars, Burglery, Pimping, and lots and lots of killing... and that's just part of what you do. So, basically, according to our screwed up values system, it's okay for me to shoot my girlfriend in the head watching her blood gush out her now headless body, but having sex with her onscreen is somehow worse... Honestly, what this shows is that the ESRB is working in the way it was designed (and it was designed stupidly). You have the HACK the game in order to get it to work. They stripped the feature BECAUSE of the ESRB. The only reason it wasn't included is that no retailer will currently list an AO (Adults Only) game, and boobies=AO.
Anyone care to raise their hand here?
Who here gets off on polygon boobies?
This has got to be the most pointless add-on for any game. Did they feel like Leisure Suit Larry was a threat? If this was even in the game as a mission, I would have skipped buying it. Seriously. If it's not a integral part of the game, there was no need for it.
Whatever coder that developed it was a complete moron for thinking that this would be a much needed selling point on the PC version.
This isn't like it was some physics demo or monster demo like what they included in Doom 3. It was a stupid inclusion of a bad idea.
No part of GTA or any game has needed to feature the act of sex as to be part of it's success.
Leisure Suit Larry even benefitted from this. That game was about the LACK of sex.
I would not be suprised if this puts the GTA series under even more heavy scrutiny, and could end up getting the license banned in even more countries. There's a logical limit to button pushing. Rockstar needs to take a breather from their paint fumes and rethink the ideaology of nudity and sex being needed to make an already great game sellable.
I think these games are terrible...I find the level of violence disgusting and I am very discouraged that the game companies are producing and marketing such slop. What next...Gang Rape III? Slicin' Dicin' Serial Killers? How about I'll do anything for Heroin: The Teenage Adventure.
./ audience) who seem sophisitcated when they bash their own country.
That being said, I see that (as always) on slashdot, what started out as a discussion about a videogame has descended into "The United States Sucks", always the default topic on slashdot because it is popular with the 13-22 year old crowd in the US (a good chunk of the
Free speech in the US is not perfect, but it is more free than anywhere else. People censor sex here because the courts agreed that they can.
How's the gameplay?
"Sometimes a woman is a kind of religion, she can save your soul & set you free from all your sins" - Bad Examples
Yeah, if Coral used port 80 like all other web mirrors. Coral is useless to many users here because of the strange port.
You see, unlike books and movies, there is limited radio bandwidth available for video games to be broadcast. This means that the government must step in to regulate this limited resource. Especially since it is being broadcast directly into people's homes.
WHAT??? Video games aren't broadcast into people's home through limited bandwidth? THEN WHY THE FUCK DOESN'T THE GOVERNMENT MIND IT'S OWN FUCKIN' BUISNESS? The next thing you know the government will be telling people they can't smoke in bars, they can go to jail for not wearing a seatbelt, and are not allowed to burn the flag, or tell a "naughty" joke in the workplace!
But then the Cal state legislature is a pack of the filthiest, most useless dogshit motherfuckers you will ever see, on both sides of the statehouse. I'm not just ranting here. If you live here, you know what I mean. These asshats are subhuman. Their IQ is about 80, and I mean that in a collective sense.
And we can't get rid of them because they gerrymandered the state so tightly we just get more extremists from both parties, so term limits are useless. And the Kool-Aid drinkers on both sides just vote Party lines, so it's a never ending parade of dumbass. And people pick on Arnold for not fixing this unholy mess overnight...
California, and I say this in complete and total seriousness, needs an armed insurrection.
You want this political boner for Victorian-era censorship to go flaccid? Vote with your eyes open! Note that Lee is a Democrat, and there's a lot of Democrats like this. Stop with the "Oh, well, a vote for the Democrats is a vote for free speech" bullshit. THINK!
- Walk up to a random character. For the sake of illustration, let's say it's a female.
- Start mashing buttons. Your character begins punching the female in the face, interjecting with expressions like, "You're just a bitch!"
- Chase the character around while still mashing buttons. You will win the "fight." She will then fall over backwards, exposing her panties.
- Keep mashing buttons. Your character will then begin violently stomping the disabled and compromisingly-positioned female in the crotch, while yelling more epithets.
- At some point, the female character will die (become immobile and cease making noise). If you then step back, you will see a pool of blood emanating from the character's crotch area, where you were stomping on it.
Wait, so where was I going with this? Oh, right -- depicting sex in a video game is bad.Breakfast served all day!
In some countries, 12 year olds can get married and have children. What is it with these nutjob types who want to shield kids from the concept of sex?
My god, this has been out for weeks! Within days they had this unlocked and its just being bitched about now???
IFilm has the "Hot Coffee Movie" that they made to demonstrate that the mod wasn't fake.
It can probably survive a Slashdotting more than a games' fan site.
Hot Coffee
Apparently coffee is slang for sex. *shrug* Whatever.
My reality check bounced.
Sure. Where are the "edit" buttons on those web sites?
For that matter, where's the edit button on your comment? You have some spaces in those URLs that are not desirable.
And regularly screams my name. son.
Isn't that more or less how the court system works here in the US?
And they say these games don't reflect society....
//Information does not want to be free; it wants to breed.
Anyone remember the first Larry game, where you died if you forgot to put on a condom? And got beaten if you forgot to take it off? That sure was a responsible game.
Here's a torrent of hotcoffee.wmv since the site appears to be plastered...
Wait, so where was I going with this? Oh, right -- judging a game based on 15 minutes of play time without reading the manual, trying any of the objectives, or even having the slightest idea that there could be a concept for the game is a stupid idea.
That guy must have been a newbie, 'cause it took him two tries to run into the red marker.
Ron dies in chapter 9 of book 7.
If I had a kid, and I had to choose between having him see graphic sex and graphic violence, I'd choose the sex. At least then I can sit the kid down and explain to him that this is something that he can enjoy when he's older. Can't say the same about the violence.
Karma: Frotzed (mostly due to the Frobozz Magic Karma Company)
...there aren't really any major game engine changes between GTA3, VC and SA. I think of them as 3, 3.1 and 3.2.
Ron dies in chapter 9 of book 7.
The American obsession with sexuality and the fear that *gasp* a minor might be confronted with it never ceases to amaze us simple folk over here in Old Europe. But then, a nipple here and a little flesh there are bigger threats to the Free World than machine guns and grenades.
So soon we will hear a public outcry about - what? (The simulation) of something wonderful, hidden in a game glorifying violence and crime.
Ah, the irony.
If you watch to the end of the video, you'll see the note saying "Remember, nice guys finish last".
Hey, that's good -- she should enjoy it too, fellas. I don't see the problem, they're teaching positive sexual relations here.
( Perhaps everybody's up at arms because here in America, we do it missionary only, and *only* when we need a baby. )
lorem ipsum, dolor sit amet
Yea, I'll bet that would work great with all the systems out there running webservers, huh?
Alito: A vote for Alito is a punch in the eye to put that bitch back in her place!
google it. it exists.
My other first post is car post.
however sex does carry with it certain responsibilities
::biggest_rolls_eyes_ever::
Yes, and beating the shit out of someone or shooting them several times in the chest has no long term reprocussions at all.
The *real* reason why sex is abhorred and violence is glorified is because we're a bunch of puritans in comparison to the rest of the world.
The Doormat
If you're not outraged, then you're not paying attention.
---------
Dear Assembly Member Yee,
In reading my news for the day, I came across several articles referencing your "blasting" of the ESRB in regards to the rating it provided to Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas (Official Press Release: http://democrats.assembly.ca.gov/members/a12/press /p122005060.htm).
To begin, I am twenty-four years old, with a 14-month old son. I am very much a part of the 'video-game generation', as I often use video games to unwind after a days worth of work and caring for my son. These games range from the previous mentioned Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas and beyond.
In reading the press release, I felt that you had a few good points, and a few points that were off-base. It is true that Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas contained the remnants of a coded "sex mini-game", depicting animated characters going through previous choreographed motions of various acts of sexual intercourse. Sexual intercourse between (in the theme of the game), consenting adults. However, what you failed to mention was that in order for anyone to access this minigame, they have to go to the lengthy trouble of modifying the actual game code for Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas. I have been working with computers, for both work and recreational purposes, for a decade, and I can safely say that because it requires the modification of the game code beyond the parameters that Rockstar North coded, this is not something that an individual will just run into during the course of playing the game. An individual has easier access to "soft-core pornography" on late night cable; actual pornography, and not two rendered, clothed computer models going through the motions.
That was a lengthy discourse as to the point you missed. I will now address a point that you did address. The press release, and prior press releases, indicates that you feel that games such as Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas, Manhunt, and other M-rated games (which, for the recorded, is defined on the ESRB {http://www.esrb.com/esrbratings.asp} website as a game which may contain intense violence, blood and gore, sexual content, and/or strong language.). You are correct. Such games are not made for children. Not all games are made for children. Just as movies such as The Godfather (R), Apocalypse Now Redux (R), Scarface (R), and Saving Private Ryan (R) are classified by the MPAA (www.mpaa.org) under the Voluntary Movie Rating System as being not for children, these M-Rated games are also being classified under a voluntary rating system as not suitable for children.
I feel that voluntary rating systems are the key point here. Both motion pictures and video games carry a classification designed to inform the purchaser of the product as to what they will be experiencing in the normal course of viewing/playing. Video game producers such as Rockstar North are not forcing parents to buy Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas for their 12-year old child, just as Francis Ford Coppola never forced parents to take their 12-year old child to see Apocalypse Now (or Apocalypse Now Redux, released in 2001 as a directors cut). It is up to the parent to decide, based on their own purchases and experiences and research, whether or not a product is suitable for their underaged child. No one forces these parents to buy such games as Manhunt or Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas. The events that happen in the normal course of gameplay are not hidden from the purchaser; they are often depicted on the back of the box and in TV, we
"If Common Sense was so common, it wouldn't be such a valued trait."
GTA: Baby Momma Drama
Mod this the fuck up...funny as hell.
Of course, the content in question is not "accessible" by the game being sold, technically. It's only accessible in an (unauthorized?) patched version of the game. Thus, the exact phrasing of that requirement in ESRB rules matters greatly.
Of course, the howling mob will probably try to legislate matters. What ought to happen in a halfway sane and reasonable world is the ESRB should require a more thorough examination of RockStar products for the next couple years, and probably re-write the meaning of "accessible" to preclude this sort of thing. (And in a truly sane and reasonable world, parents would be less offended by the consensual sex than the massive violence in the game. I know for damn certain which I'd rather have my kids fooling with....)
//Information does not want to be free; it wants to breed.
The GTA3 example you gave doesn't require any cheats/hacks/mods or whatever. Flying the plane is difficult, but I've gotten very many minutes of continuous flight without entering a cheat code.
The ghost town is actually the "movie set" used for the introduction (the bank robbery scene) so every time you start a game, that ghost town is actually utilized. In other words, that area wasn't technically cut.
This is not my sig.
The sex mini game is the last thing I'd care about in a game like GTA. I don't think any parent in their right mind would buy the game for their kid.
Regarding the sex:
Ever watch TV these days, almost every show has something to do with sex, sex jokes, getting laid, sex with the partner etc etc..
Gimme a break..
Am I the only one mad at Rockstar? Everyone here seems to be blasting Yee (and yes, he is a douchebag), but Rockstar constantly pushes the limits (on what I think are crappy games, but I guess some people find a value in them). They really have to play by the rules, because they're playing so close to the edge it was stupid and rather negligent (not in the legal sense) to leave the game on there.
Rockstar does crap like this and it makes it harder to get a good game that uses violence to enhances the gameplay (Resident Evil 4, for example). Take their upcoming game on school bullies for example - it's going to make it harder to put out good-but-violent games.
Whether or not Rockstar targets young kids to buy this games is up for debate (I think they do) but the fact remains that they left the content on the game and anything like that is supposed to be submitted to the ESRB. As gamers we should be admonishing Rockstar too.
"There is no time, sir, at which ties do not matter," Jeeves, (Jeeves and the Impending Doom)
Boobs gets you at least a PG13 rating; enough of them, on screen sex, or "full frontal" female nudity tends to get an R. Show genitals (penis or labia), you're going to get an NC17 or X rating unless it's really short and nonsexual in context-- in which case you might get away with an R.
Yes, we Americans are, on average, completely whacko. And we invented nuclear weapons! Why the hell haven't the rest of you invented interstellar travel yet???
//Information does not want to be free; it wants to breed.
Clearly they should be required to put a new warning label on the game:
"Caution: Altering this game may affect game play."
I know it doesn't seem to be altering the game, per se, and it's using built-in but inaccessable content, but really. If using some third-party hack to access game content needs to be rated, why not using some third-party hack to retexture everyone so they're naked? Should all games then get an "M" rating? If this were part of accessible game content, I could see the problem.
The unspoken assumption underlying all of this brouhaha is that there is something wrong with a game of this type, and especially that there is something wrong with kids and teenagers seeing it.
I've never been convinced that this assumption is in any way valid. I didn't believe it when I was a kid, and I don't believe it today. It isn't that I think any of this is particularly good for kids, or for anyone as far as that goes. The point is that it is not harmful either. If anything it is neutral, which means it just doesn't matter. It doesn't matter any more than anything else anyone sees. Sex is an ordinary part of life for all of us, not some deep dark secret that must be kept hidden at all costs. Attempting to hide things that are sexually explicit from someone because of their age is a monumental waste of time. Not only are you going to fail for the most part (unless you lock them in a closet), but there is nothing to be gained even if you were to succeed. Of all the things that are a danger to a young person, seeing naked bodies and sex portrayed on a computer screen isn't one of them.
When I was a kid I used to think that the sex-phobia exhibited by adults was a sham, a put on, a ruse, a pretention that served to obscure their underlying malice towards the young. I reached this conclusion based upon a simple assmption: no one could actually be as stupid as they were behaving.
I was 30 years old before I finally realized that yes, people really could be that stupid, and that stupidity can even infect an entire culture. Never understimate the destructive power of idiots in large groups.
Lee
Muslim community leaders warn of backlash from tomorrow morning's terrorist attack.
If the only reason sexual content is censored is to prevent children from mimicing them and making poor sexual choices, then why can't women's breasts be seen on TV? Why do they automatically raise the rating of any game/movie? I'll tell you why: this culture obsessively sexually represses itself. Many other countries are much more open about sex, and many have less problems with STDs and teen pregnency than the US. This is not about role models, this is something much deeper.
Ignorance kills, complacency kills, hatred kills, but usually not the ones guilty of them.
What they didn't mention was that this game is not available in the Xbox and PS2 versions of the game. In fact it's not even really in the PC version. You need to download the "hot coffee" mod to even do this. So no, technically it's not in the game. R* removed it for obvious reasons, but of course once it came out for PC it was just a matter of 3 days until someone notified us at our site about this mod. R* new to take it out, but they should have just taken it out all together instead of leaving it to be cracked open. On a side not, there is supposedly a simple program you can download and place on your memory card for the PS2 version which allows this "mini game" to be opened up.
Does any one remember this? they had to recall a bunch games for that
I weep for your broken internet access
Here's a mirror to the video:
http://basharteg.com/hotcoffee.wmv
Just posting to say I agree with your post 100%. People complain abou the duped articles on Slashdot and, at the same time, moderators are constantly modding up articles that are (for all practical purposes) just as duped!
Comment of the year
Here's a mirror of the video:
http://basharteg.com/hotcoffee.wmv
Why can't they make a game like GTA SA, except you pick up linux distros instead of hookers?
I'd pay good money for it!
But if we license kids the only people who will have kids are criminals... (yes, I realize the argument is vacuous, I just find it funny) Forced sterilization, now there's an option...
People are the problem, stop procreation now!
Listen to Kevin Smith's commentaries on Chasing Amy and Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back.
You can't even *mention* any details about gay sex without being given an R.
... if that is how you are having sex I think you are doing it wrong.
If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
Does anyone in this world really find video game sex to be that offensive. Their animated characters for god sakes. The fact that at 16 years old I have access to about 30,000 porno movies/photos is alot worse.
It looks like I won't be able to pick up GTA:SA for quite a while longer, now. This ought to send it flying off the shelves *again*...
This is a big if, at present totally speculative, but it would be one scenario where Rockstar would be as guilty as hell - not specifically for the content, but in smuggling it past screeners.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
Maybe he should come down with an STD if he fucks every skank in the neighborhood. Or maybe he can be have his cash taken away to support the kid he fathered.
I haven't played San Andreas (been waiting for the PC version's price to drop), but with the population I've seen in GTA3 and Vice City, the whole population must be sterile. (Or at least half of it.) Everyone apparently reproduces by full body mitosis whenever you turn your back on them. Even their clothes get in on the cloning action.
As to STDs, I don't know what ones you think you can catch from the sex depicted in those two games. You're just sitting motionless in the front seats of a car while its shocks bounce it around. The characters don't even touch each other. As far as I can tell, it's the car that's getting off!
Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
Whether or not this is ok can be determined through an exageration. GAMEZMAKERX produces a Game, 'A Funny Story'. It is all about a kid going to school, flirting with his girlfriend, playing a sports minigame and taking a few quizes/test. They submit 'A Funny Story' to ESRB and recieve a Rating of 'E' and get a nice large distribution. Yay! One week after release, a hack is discovered. It turns out that GAMEZMAKERX had originally planned the game to be dirty. 'XXX-Fuzzy' was all about a punk getting laid, cheating on exams and then shooting up his school after expulsion. All of the content was there and to unlock it required a simple mod. The likely scenarios are: 1) They knew the content was there and they totally leaked to mod. 2) They thought it was all removed. But certain programmers kept in in there to be subversive. In either case GAMEZMAKERX is boned. There can be no question that they have thoroughly violated the public trust. Claiming that a young player could not accidentally uncover the mod is not good enough. In all likely the kid will be exposed to the content just to be 'in' with his friends. That's life. That's the extreme. But notheless, it implies that Rockstar is responsible for the content on the disc they produce. In reality, we have a standout gaming company Rockstar that makes no joke about the kind of games they are about. GTA all the way, baby. '4 life, homie!' This mod simply cannot harm the reputation this game has already earned. This mod could impact the venue of future sales but I assumed Rockstar was already working on GTA:5. At least, they better be :)
So what is the actual punishment? How heavily do you fine a company for so slight and negligible a shift. Not much, imo. A slap on the wrist to remind game producers that they need to be honest with themselves, the government and their customers.
I am not going to dig up my GTA:SA to see this mod so it ticks me off that I missed out on it. Stupid Rockstar, I love you guys.
GTA, which is packed to the brim with blasting heads off with sniper rifles and running over cops, leaving bloody smears gets an M rating. Fine. But as soon as you throw in some cheesy videogame softcore porn it's suddenly horribly offensive and in need of an investigation? Right.
FYI:
"The Guy Game" (now banned because a 17 year old lied about her age) and "BMX XXX" (universally panned) were both rated "M" for mature, even though they contain scenes of topless women. The complaint is not about the visible 'boobies' but about the graphic nature of the sexual behaviour.
This is a game where you can creep up behind a woman and slit her throat, or murder cops, or mow people down in a car. All with the approval of the ESRB and their rating system. But a sex scene? How dare they!
why no "-1 what the fuck are you trying to say"
Sims deserves an M, for those nude patches you can get for sims. Obvious, no?
<sarcasm style="rant">Oh, wait, nude sims is fine, clothed black men pleasuring white women is obviously far beyond wrong and should never, ever, ever be considered.
Rockstar, you should be ashamed, leaving code that promotes interracial relationships. Just imagine if you could have a boyfriend in the game!</sarcasm>
C'mon, people, it's a game. It's not like sales of the game are going to cause a dramatic increase in sex, vehicular homicide, murder, and beating people to death with dildos (one of the best ways to dispatch someon in the game, BTW)
You will be baked, and there will be cake.
"Maybe it's some of these weird USA cultural things?"
Yes. Yes it is.
In the U.S., if you can get laid in high school, you don't do anything else. The culture is so obsessed with popularity that the only people who have time to think about anything else are the rejects.
That's why the U.S. has so many varieties of geek. Computer geeks, sure, but math geek, science geek, band geek, drama geek...
There's no reason for a guy who plays saxophone in the school band to be considered undateable. Playing the sax is attractive. It's just that only unattractive people take the time to learn something like this.
The U.S. school system is so broken, foreigners can't even begin to grasp it. The only thing U.S. high schools can still do at this point seems to be keeping the horny and attractive teenagers mostly away from the adult population.
The game is a big sandbox. You can perform random violence if you like. However, if you persist in such sociopathic behaviour, eventually the authorities will take notice. Your character will, at best, be arrested. At worst your character will be shot and killed by a SWAT team.
This is no different from real-life.
You decided to inflict random violence on another character. You are the one to blame for your actions. Since you're posting on Slashdot, you're probably not currently in jail or on death row. This type of behaviour is obviously not acceptable to you in real-life - yet it apparently is in a virtual world where there are no real consequences. What does this say about you?
Will Wright (designer of The Sims) once said that his daughter loves GTA - she drives around the city on a scooter for hours at a time. No violence or death, she just wants to explore.
I would say that on some levels GTA is a mirror that exposes those who play it for who they really are. The game is not like a movie. It does not stomp on civilians without someone at the controls.
You win GTA by completing the missions - which, yes, are of a criminal nature, but they do not endorse random violence against innocent civilians in the manner that you depicted (it is often counterproductive since it is beneficial to attract less attention from the virtual authorities).
Sure, there are times when players just "go nuts", start messing around and go on random killing sprees, seeing how much carnage they can commit before being caught or killed - but if you persist, the consequences will always, always catch up with you.
With a few file-switching & some tweaking, you can turn off the blurring in the sims & then you have naked sims.
Ok, so theyre not anatomically correct, but there are also ways to fix that.
Not that ive tried it or anything.
In sims2, you can have the sims "try for baby" in which they disappear under the covers, fireworks shoot about & soon the female is pregnant.
Ive also seen "naked" skins for quake & im sure theyre available for other FPS's
Looks like ESRB has their work cut out for them.
what a pitiful attempt at brining some kind of fervor and frucus to the dreadfully and hopelessly boring 'video game industry'
This "anti sex" culture in Government will change... Here is why.
The current generation in the United States has access to the internet. Now, you can find whatever you want on the internet, this should be obvious. Indeed, you can often find sexually explicit material on the internet when you are not looking for it.
So, now we have both sexes viewing sexually explicit material when they choose to do so via the internet. (I can remeber being excited in the early 80s managing to locate a copy of penthouse, which myself and my friends would stare at in amazement...)
However, the current generation that is in government was not raised by these standards - they are far more conservative when it comes to sex. Therefore, they choose to ban it to 'protect the kids' or whatever.
However, as this generation ages, having had more exposure to sex and nudity, and being far more tolerante of it, so will the current policies surrounding it.
So, yes, the US government is very reactionary to sex, but this will change - it MUST change because the current younger generation just won't tolerate it when they age.
Try to hack my 31337 firewall!
this reminds me of a movie i was watching on TV the other night, I can't remember the exact movie but think pulp fiction type violence and gore...
The funny thing about the movie was that after this long drawn out violent scene (bullets flying, people's insides splattering, blood everywhere) someone said Fuck you.
Now none of the violence was cut out or shortened, but the word fuck, oh noooo!!! Can't have that, instead the changed it to hug...
So after this long violent scene the character turned to the motionless bodies and said "No!, Hug you!!!
It's insane
The sex game is about the least questionable thing in GTA:SA.
really be responsible for parts of a game that you can only get to by applying modifications?
According to ESRB.ORG, there are only 18 titles released with the "AO" rating. Here is the complete list:
:The Women Of Playboy
Leisure Suit Larry: Magna Cum Laude Uncut and Uncensored
Singles
Peak Entertainment Casinos
Critical Point
Tokimeki Checkin!
Water Closet: The Forbidden Chamber
Snow Drop
X-Change
All Nude Nikki
Body Language
Riana Rouge
WET - The Sexy Empire
All Nude Glamour
All Nude Cyber
Cyber Photographer
The Joy Of Sex
Playboy Screensaver
Crystal Fantasy
- Just my $0.02, take with a grain of salt, your mileage may vary.
So, the big deal is not that there is sex in GTA. You can make a game with sex, and you can sell it. Nobody is stopping you.
The big deal is this: Parents are trying to raise their kids responsibly by monitoring their media... their TV, their movies, their music, and their games. They don't necessarily want to stop their kids from listening to an album, or playing a game. They just want to know what the heck their kids are getting into. Just a little help, like a rating system, and a way to stop kids from getting particularly graphic content. You may not like it, but that's what parents want.
Like all other media, parents want laws to force game manufacturers to label their games, and game sellers to restrict sales to minors. The game industry has argued in response that we don't need laws because "we can police ourselves" via the ESRB.
Well, the ESRB blew it big time, although apparently through no fault of their own. This GTA hack is a glaring example of the failure of self-policing. The ESRB was set up to stop parents from demanding media control laws. Now the ESRB has failed in their mission, and parents are going to start demanding those laws. So the ESRB is furiously trying to protect its reputation.
I work at a large game company (not Take-Two/Rockstar). We are required to reveal all hacks, easter eggs, hidden features, etc. to both first-party (MS, Sony, Nintendo) and the ESRB. There can be no content on the disk that is not reported to these folks, or there a serious consequences. (I'm told they're serious. I don't know what they are.) If Take-Two did not reveal that this content was on the disk, they have defrauded the ESRB. That's bad news for Take-Two and their cash cow. If this content is on the Xbox or PS2 media, they defrauded MS or Sony, who are now liable for the explicit content. That's really bad news.
That's why this is a big deal.
Side Note: This is not censorship. Nobody is banning any games. Adults can buy whatever games they want. Restricting sales of adult games to kids is no more censorship than restricting sales of porn or booze. The censorship argument is a Take-Two argument to whip up support for anything-goes game development so that they can continue to make piles of money selling porn to kids.
This is a mod. How could the ESRB have known? This is indeed a nudie mod. Yee is just out to get the industry, for who knows what reason. THAT would be an interesting piece of investigative reporting.
I bought "tellytubby adventures", reverse engineered the binary, extracted the graphics files and replaced them with nudie pics off the net, recompiled it and when i ran the game THERE WERE NAKED WOMEN IN THE GAME! Its a game designed for children, for gods sake! Whats the world coming to? >_>
As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
Compiled code is merely CPU-readable script. It's all just a matter of perspective.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
"so in berkeley you can sleep with a hooker, but if you kill her, the party's over"
speaking about the passage of 2 laws in california, 1 legalizing prostitution in berkeley, the other criminalizing necrophilia.
art imitates life, it's cool!
The first rule of USENET is you do not talk about USENET.
...if you buy a NEW YORK TIMES newspaper and stick an x-rated picture on it, it becomes an x-rated newspaper. Yes, I know, it's shocking.
...are an effin pedant.
Let the world (or more important Yee) know how you feel on these issues and email him from this page http://www.aroundthecapitol.com/memberemail.php?di strict=AD12&subject=AB+319+(Chan):+Phthalates+and+ bisphenol-A+in+childrens+products./
You mention that you can find sexual material on the internet.. Care to list some examples?
Not a Twitter sockpuppet... but I wish I was.
Dateline July 8, 2005: All copies of GTA:SA for PC's have mysteriously sold out in matter of minutes. /. are believed to be responsible. Authorities are at a loss, stating "this may be the most sex they'll ever get."
Rumor has it members of a "computer cult" known only by the symbol
Ignorance is not a crime; neither should it be a way of life
Congress control $ = inmates run the asylum
When was the last time you felt a woman's breasts? It doesn't count if your girlfriend is overweight.
I feel obligated to link to the Gamer's Manifesto (which has made news here before, incidentially.)
Note in particular section 4.
As those raised in the 60's who were "exposed to more sex" are more tolerant, or those in the roaring 20's were more tolerant.
My point is social trends in society are not necessarily linear. They may be more tolerant to exposure to such things, or the norms may shift back to something more conservative. It does not necessarily follow that they will be "far more tolerant." Somewhat more tolerant is likely, far more tolerant is not necessarily the case.
As people get older their views often move closer to their parents views on many things. And these conservative people are raising children.
Thanks.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
No one else gave us this list.
Those sex scenes in San Andreas were actually boring and quite difficult and annoying, so I decided to turn those off after testing.
Nice link, nice speed. Thanks for the mirror.
:)
I love this video.
It's because so many Americans are fat, no one wants to get naked.
Did or did you not notice the huge LOD system improvement between GTA 3 and Vice City? GTA 3 would run, on a 2.4ghz P4, like molasses whereas Vice City would simply fly along, even if you're speeding down the highway in a turbocharged sports car. No glitches, nothing.
San Andreas seems to bring realtime shadowing and an even better progressive detail system into play -- i.e. there are no "loading..." breaks anywhere at any point, unless you count the fadeout/fadein things when you're busted or wasted.
So sure, there have been improvements. Like those between Soldier of Fortune one and two. Not revolutionary like between GTA2 and GTA3, but still.
But I... CORRECTED them, sir. And when my wife tried to prevent me from doing my duty, I CORRECTED her.
If the ESRB had to rerate the game, including such unlocked content as the sexual mini games, say they make it Adult Only. By my understanding, to purchase something "adult" only, you'd need to be a legal adult, aka 18 years of age in most American cities/states. Correct?
And if the ESRB left it at Rated Mature, meaning you must be 17 or older to purchase it, then it's the same as it is currently. Correct?
What, is the deal? Is one god damn year really that much difference? "Wow Little Timmy, yer 17 but you can't buy this Adult Only game. But in roughly 5 months when you turn 18, you sure can! Cause by then you'll have "matured" into a full adult and can enjoy such quality adult recreation as Adult Only games!"
Seriously, who are they kidding? Now, I will say that for some people, that one year can make a difference. We've all met someone real young that is as mature and understanding as someone in their 50's, and we've all met someone that's 18 or older that is about as mature as your average 12 year old. However, the average tends to lend itself to being that the 17 year old, even if he/she is one full year till being 18, is in the same mind state and understanding of such concepts such as Adult material.
Granted, it may not come down to "the wire" such as it may seem, in most places. But, you'd be surprised. I've seen Walmarts not sell certain things past the M rating to guys who were 17 but seriously like a few days from their 18th birthday. You think I'm shitting you, lord knows I can give you the names and store numbers of some local managers of various department stores like Walmart or Target who do just that. They will argue you up and down, that those "three or four days" can mean a lawsuit or something equally as stupid. (first what "parent" would sue for a breach within that time period? and what jury would actually consider it?)
Either way, the jump between NC 17/Rated M vs "Adult" Only is so trivial it's not funny. I mean come on, at 17 (and younger) you were seeing sexual education films in high school that were more graphic and detailed that your average prime time basic cable sitcom...Let alone being worried about all the Little Timmy's who might get the wrong idea from some obscure pixelated model sex scene in GTA...
Aw Frell this
Lessee...some amoral politician looking to secure reelection latches onto a non-issue like a very badly made sex scene in a video game - cut out and only accessible through an externally produced mod. A few anal-retentive assholes who see this as another good way to tell the rest of us how to live our lives, or raise our children, jump on the bandwagon.
How exactly is this news? Happens just about every goddamned day in the former land of the free, so far as I can see.
Fuck it. I'm going to load up Carmageddon and run over a few hundred screaming pedestrians, pretending all the while they're either extremist righties or extremist lefties. No sex in that game, so the politicians and their whacked out fascist-jackboot-wannabes shouldn't even life an eyebrow at the carnage....
Max
My god carries a hammer. Your god died nailed to a tree. Any questions?
dickwad
Here is the release of the mod for the PC version, on GTAForums.com. Note how I said "mod." That's because the code was written, probably for the amusement of the coders, and never linked to in the released game scripts. You have to install a new main.scm script to access it, invalidating all of your previous save games, if any. Now, Rockstar knows there's a modding scene out there and they must have known this would be discovered ... but it is not part of the game as released, and no hapless starry-eyed virgin is going to come across it accidentally. You will never find this minigame without looking for it and going to lengths to unlock it.
With any game that has online accsess, the ESRB has a warning that is something like this: "Warning- Online play may affect game rating." This isn't any different.... you connect to the internet, download something, and do all this other stuff. So I guess ESRB needs to change it: "Warning- Figuring out that there is a hidden area left out of a game, and then creating a way to access and impliment it may affext game rating."
Do a little reading. It's all about the money. Straight from the California DA's mouth...
See, nothing about evil pedophiles, or child abuse, or 'save the children' crap. Just "We don't want any more welfare babies. Those things are f'ing expensive." I guess that was one of those rare moments of honesty out of a public official explaining why the laws of the nation contradict mother nature and hormones so darned frequently these days.
So wait a minute. Are you trying to say that a game which involves the wholesale murder of innocent pedestrians, gang members, policeman and even military personnel, the theft of any number of vehicles, lying, cheating and corruption, prostitution and drugs... you're telling me this game is of questionable moral character?
Never!
Thank goodness the ESRB is out to protect me.
The Internet is generally stupid
The US was really based both violent, intolerant, zealots who publicly feared sex, yet privately indulged *and* short-sighted, exploitative traders who only worried about the bottom line.
Yet people still don't understand why the US acts the way it does...
(Relation to topic: Rockstar and retailers want money {capitalistic founders}; Public wants to play 'immoral' games, but don't want to others to know they play 'immoral' games -- and they certainly don't want their children or even neighbors playing 'immoral' games {religious founders})
Also, sure, sex gets worse flak, but violence still does get targeted... a lot. My fiancée works at an EB and, well, just about every day there is some parent who looks at the games in the demo boxes and goes, "Oh my God! How can you traffic in something so violent?" Never once has any parent complained about how women are depicted on game covers (skimpy dress and all that), so the sex/violence debate is not a binary. (Ex: more parents have had problems with the blood on Red Ninja's cover than with the fact that she's suggestively dressed, at least at my fiancée's store)
[insert witty comment here]
Odd... I just got the strangest urge to hail you and subscribe to your newsletter...
How nice though? ;)
Their catching flack for not rating something that requires hacking the binary or data files in order to access? That's retarded.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
> and wanted to have sex yourself during or after viewing it? /. readers are mostly young single males. They will want to have sex during or after *any* activity
If the game is already rated MA-17, WTF are people doing having a problem with this? These people are nearly "legal adults," able to fight and *DIE* for thir own country. Who the hell are you to tell these people they can't enjoy some type of sin before they die, whether real or virtual? These people are standing at the forefront of a hail of bullets while everyone else screams "WAR!" but cowers in their own homeland. FSCK all you cowards who'd like to moderate the rest of us while we keep your asses safe and sound in your "democracy/COMMUNIST" government.
(UNEDITED) FUCK YOU ALL. If you don't have the balls to stand up to a bullet, make way for, and accept, those who do, you religious cowards. Thou shall not kill, indeeed. You don't kill while encouraging others to do it for you.
I don't speak for everyone with that statement. I speak for the over-zealous, non-intelligent faith beliveres that can't stand the thought of themselves going to war, but relish the idea of others going to fight for them. You all need to burn. Mod me as you please. I've made part of a point that's been almost completely proven time and time again thruout history, and not from CHRISTIANS, either. (WWII, for Example. Not Christian, but Catholic, which pre-dates by about half a millenia. And can't you guys find something else to celebrate other than a PAGAN holiday that was around two-three thousand years before your religion was ever established?
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
Only minutes after watching the Hot Coffee GTA video I felt the urge to make sweet love to my girlfriend in a manner that could only be described as "copy cat" behaviour influenced by the game...
THE HONOUR OF THE KNIGHTS - CC Licensed Sci-Fi Novel
I have to disagree. I think ratings are important, should be accurate, and should reflect NOT your opinions, but the content of the film. For films, it might suprise you that some people don't want to see graphic gore, torture, pain and violence suprising them in a film that looked much less violent in the trailers.
In this instance, I have argued previously that many non-violent adult themes were palced into GTA for:
a) laughs
b) enjoyment
c) more laughs
d) to assert that this is definately a game for adults.
People who are anti-game-violence, and people who are 'anti-anti-gameviolence' and well as those pro-gaming violence (of which I would say i am one) get this all wrong.
Even with a mature rating, a purely violent game would be immediately pounced upon as marketting to children. If you can somehow put sex in there, you can really show that you are not trying to appeal to children, but an adult audience.
Hitting all the 'adult content' points is important therefore.
Now, Postal is a bloody marvelous game. And Hitman, but postal for a different reason. I completed the demo in about 1 minute. I walked to the shop, bought milk, went home. I won!! Hurrah!
Now, if that was what was shown to the ESRB, then it would have had a E and a smiley face. However, one time I accidentally pissed on a woman, and then hit her in the face with a shovel, and proceeded to douse her in petrol and light her on fire. Ooops! Now that kind of content is not suitable for children in any for, be in in a book, on a film, or in a video game.
The book is an important point, we are not just talking about graphical depictions, but the acts themselves.
I agree with the guy bringing this up, I suspected someone would, and I am glad they did. If this content had been in a game with a lower rating, and the content had been in stark contrast to the game (as it is, I do not really like that content, it makes me feel like I am playing a cheap 'playboy mansion' or 'Leisure Suit Larry' game (oh that vibrating black censor box when you had sex, I can't believe we wondered if you could actually turn that off!).
I do not agree (or know of) his agenda, but they deserve a slap on the wrist. You actually simulate sex, and although I thought it was cool, it really is offensive content (although they can both be clothed) It makes you tap in rhythm, and says your the man when she cums. Many parents bought this game KNOWING its violence, and let their kids use it, but if they knew of such adult content, then they would not have, ok it is not easily accessible, but kids on forums want to try everything.
While I agree with your points, the fact remains rockstar are in the wrong, if noone had found it, they would have got away with it, but it seems like they wanted someone to find it, and generate a second wave of buzz (for kicks, or, even more $$$).
MXBTBXW
#hostfile 0.0.0.0 primidi.com 0.0.0.0 www.primidi.com 0.0.0.0 radio.weblogs.com
I mean, it seems to fit the game, why not? What do they have to lose, the game is already infamous for it's violence and sexual references. People buying the game now will not be turned away by it. We're having this whole discussion because they didn't put it in in the first place. It seems to fit the life of a mobster perfectly anyway...
On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero.
I really wish people would stop all the griping about how bad video games, and movies and music are for children... Why don't we focus in on the real problem and create a rating system for parents. Lets give parents a MDN rating (More Discipline Needed).
News Reporters Make Tasty Polar Bear Treats!
The baby boomers were protesting Vietnam and fomenting the sexual revolution in the 60's and 70's (without which there would've been no Penthouse (or Club, for that matter) available to you in the 1980s), and look at what they're up to now. They coined the phrase "Never trust anyone over 30." and now that they're over 30 (50 more like), they're proving the point from the opposite side as well. Look at the last 2 liars we elected as presidents.
There is no zealot like a convert. In 20 years, anyone from the internet generation who ends up feeling disgusted by their own earlier behavior is probably going to become a gay wedding bomber or something like that.
Anyway, there only guarantee for the future is that there are no guarantees. At least using current technology.
We are the 198 proof..
type 'xxx clips' into any search engine!
Ive never seen or done that before.
It's such a shame that congress hasn't caught up with the 21st Century, or the 20th for that matter. How in the hell do they expect the rating board to find something like this? Last time I checked, Congress passed the DMCA which would theoretically make illegal any action to reverse engineer the executable or it's included game files to find such "hidden" options. Yeah, way to think there Leland Yee - back to the gene pool with you!
hotcoffee.wmv mirrored here: http://www.melvinlabs.com/media/hotcoffee.php
Fucking idiot mod.
does this mean i can 'hack' "donald ducks quack attack" and it will get retroactivly upped to an AO?
by 'hack' i mean add some bits to the binary to do a JMP to the last line of executable code, which would be replaced with a launcher to 'mplayer sic_sex_acts.mpg'
its only a small hack!
What? No! Only simulated KILLING is allowed!
... is our Rights! Not only our rights as programmers to express ourselves unhindered by government intervention (guaranteed through the 1st Amendment), but, more importantly, our 9th and 14th amendment rights as parents. The "rating system" as well as any other form of censorship our government attempts to impose upon us in violation of the U.S. Constitution, is primarily (and in fact, exclusively), meant to apply toward our "children", that is to say, people of minority. I see this not only as a 1st amendment violation of my rights to upraise my children after the religious and philosophical beliefs that I hold (freedom of religion), but also my rights as a parent to upbring my children in such a fashion that is unhindered by government (9th amendment, the Consitution does not EXPLICITELY give government the right to upbring after their own political views), as well as bringing them up in such a fashion that encourages and produces "life" and "liberty" in the fashion outlined in my religious and philosophical beliefs (protected by the 14th amendment). Plain and simple, imposed and "enforced" rating systems by the government IS UNCONSTITUTIONAL. This, however, brings out the fact, as well, of the parents' responsibilities. As a father of four, there is not one thing my children have seen, heard, or played that I have not reviewed first, or viewed along with them, to ensure that it was something that I wanted them to see, in accordance with my beliefs. Needless to say, there have been a great number of "G" and "PG" rated "Disney" movies that they won't see in my house, and will have to wait until they are oif the age of majority and gone. On the other hand, there are other movies that I have let them see that are "R" rated because of "violence". It is not only the parents' SOLE responsibility to ensure what their children do and do not see, but also their RIGHT! And the government simp[ly needs to keep thier nose out of our rights and focus on more important things like cleansing out the corruption that is so rampant in our politics. But, the only way that will happen is for each and every one of us to MAKE our voices heard, and daily email our representatives with this stuff. If you have time to post here and "slashdot" a site or two every week, you have time to flood your representative's emails and phones with the same.
yay, speling flamez...
When using ellipses to indicate the unspecified continuation of a number's fractional part, it is customary to not round the last specified digit.
Seriously. At least they finally got over the whole-violence controversy.
Anyways, this stuff is in no way "pornographic" let alone "erotic" or what-have-you.
How come no one said anything about the stipper joint and "stripteases" in Vice City? Mind you, those aren't even any good (I wasn't sure exactly what I was supposed to feel watching those... it surely wasn't entertaining.)
Also, Triple X BMX I think is a far worse offender than San Andreas.
Insert Sig Here
A developer cannot control HACKS. That is why they are called HACKS. Any game can be hacked and modified to contain explicit content. Therefore what can they or the ESRB do about it?
If I take PONG and hack it so it displays nudey pics in the background, that is outside of the control of developers and publishers and ESRB.
"America's Army" is not only a pro-violence game, it's a piece of purely manipulative political propaganda, and it's rated "Teen". Sure, it's probably not as much *fun* killing all the Iraqis (or whoever they call the Bad Guys) with nice clean rifle shots as GTA's more personalized mayhem, but it's very carefully designed to teach kids that their leaders should pick enemies for them and they should go kill them, while GTA makes it obvious that this is *bad*, and makes it fun to do stuff that's outrageously over-the-top bad. So let's go kill all the Haitians, but don't even *think* about fragging your lieutenant....
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
It wouldn't surprise me if a black person who happened to be within 100 yards of the car went and told everyone they knew how they were victimized by my sister in law. That is their perception, based on their own prejudices. In reality she was trying to avoid a swollen trip to the emergency room. She was so mortified of the bee, she would not have noticed the presence of any other person.
My point is you don't know a person's intentions, so you should not prejudge them. You should assume the best rather than the worst, unless there is a tangible reason to believe otherwise. Do you really know why this woman rolled up her windows? Did you ask her?
Nope. You and your wife just assumed that because your wife is black and this woman was white that she felt threatened by your wife. You said yourself that it is implausible that your wife could be perceived as a threat, yet you assume this woman found your wife to be threatening simply because of her race. That is a very racist attitude you two have, and I hope you can overcome it.
"Avoid employing unlucky people - throw half of the pile of CVs in the bin without reading them." -- David Brent