Fair enough, that example relies on pointer dereferencing. As you say references must refer to a valid object, and for the most part this is enforced by requiring them to be initialized. While it's circuitous to have a never valid reference, it isn't particularly unlikely:
With enough warnings enabled g++ warns about this, but I don't think it's the "don't compile this" kind of illegal but rather the "certain failure at runtime" kind, like any uninitialized variable. Likewise the simple:
int& f() {
int i;
return i; }
Undefined, but no more forbidden than taking the address and returning it.
Your point that it causes "undefined behaviour" is exactly my point, were references properly constrained by the language this would be outright illegal, not merely undefined. Of course I haven't read the standard or Stroustrup closely enough to be able to cite anything so fire at will.
I was at one of Stallman's talks on copyright, where he was preaching for change (among other things no copyright on "knowledge works" like software), and indeed exactly this question came up. When asked how the GPL would stand without copyright, he suggested that there would need to be new laws specifically addressing the issues of software freedom.
While you're dreaming up your personal utopia, why not?
Hey, if we're listing... my family's home machines have been named after fictional computers or artificial intelligences:
hactar, neuromancer, wintermute, brainiac, Windows boxes included Deep Thought, The Earth, The Oracle, and The Architect, routers were ennesby and jane, NAS is max (Headroom, that is).
I had a series of external hard drives named Kingdom, Power, Glory, and Forever.
My university's CS department named the computers in the labs after cereals, pasta, and soups (which identified what room they were in). When I was working there I started setting up some Final Fantasy themed ones (gurgu, corneria) but didn't get very far.
Our Barracuda gateway, in about two years of use, processed about 10 million messages. Of which just under 3.8 percent are deemed real... Conversely, I get no false positives.
Where'd you find the time to check those 96.2 million messages?
It used to be the case the coal miners were not paid for the time spent donning and removing protective gear. Despite the very different industries, it basically means that if you are required to do tasks to prepare to do work, then you need to paid for that additional time.
I wonder if this does actually directly apply. It seems like this might be a safety-related thing, that if employers require working in conditions that require protective gear to be reasonably safe that they must pay for setting it up, because otherwise even if said gear is provided there would be more reason to rush putting it on, or cutting corners and leaving out tedious or complicated elements, in order to get to work faster.
I seem to remember somewhere in the commentary for Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within that they also spent a lot of effort on creating a computer generated sky, but it looked unconvincing. Eventually they gave up and did the clouds by hand.
Eh? Was there a beating heart in The Cask of Amontillado? Maybe "the beating of his hideous heart" from The Tell-Tale Heart would have been more appropriate?
I've been thinking about this for a few months now, though mostly just talking myself out of possibilities. I was thinking of a magic system that had parallels to programming (which somewhat came from Wizard's Bane and the Earthsea cycle), as you mentioned, but I began to wonder if I might be able to make it more literally involve programming. As you and some other replies mentioned, the idea of programming in-game robots came up (and here I thought of the various puzzling situations of I, Robot), but I wanted to be able to eventually extend to the concept that the game world itself is but a program, and allow "magical" manipulation thereof. I've recently backed off a bit; lately I've been pondering logic gates in more typical adventure game puzzle situations.
Trying to decide on what level of abstraction to work from, and what kind of language, and reigning in my ambition, as well as reading some programming education research, hasn't yet led me too far. Thanks for opening this line of discussion, I'm going to check out the games that other responses have indicated. If anyone wants to discuss this or hear my rambling thoughts on the subject, drop me an email or an IM.
Given that unless you've verified the cert, its as unsecure as http, it should look nothing like, nor even hint at being 'secure'.
Ok, that sounds like a good idea now that I understand your reasoning. Do we even need an icon, then, or could someone interested just notice the https in the url? I guess the icon makes for an easier click target than the alternative (messing with menus).
You could go a bit more intrusive and have something like the password popup (or the bar that FF3 uses now), "Do you want to remember this certificate?", but you seem to be advocating no action unless the user requests it. And considering that almost all users will have no way of verifying a certificate, this seems like a reasonable conclusion.
So maybe just leave it somewhere in the menus and don't even bother with the icon.
So don't put the secure green lock up for self signed SSL. Put up a totally different icon in some neutral color like blue.
Didn't Netscape once use blue for their padlock? Ah yes, here, and also shows the gold IE one (in response to someone else's yellow suggestion).
There are some nuances that aren't going to come across from a color. Maybe if they're contrasting with another color, particularly if the user is expecting to see either no lock or a green one, but still not something certain to be noticed.
Or are you suggesting a picture of some other object? Something intended to get attention rather than a simple palette shift (say, a red exclamation point) would be more likely to get that click you're suggesting. But I think the full screen warning message is sort of the natural conclusion of this line of reasoning, in that it requires attention. Under what circumstances would it make sense to ignore the flashing warning sign rather than clicking it and getting the details? If none, why should it be allowed by the interface?
A self signed cert could then allow encryption and say perhaps show a yellow padlock
A yellow padlock would look like gold and thus sort of imply goodness. Not that this invalidates your point, it's just difficult to show some icon that represents a more nuanced kind of "secure".
I want someone coming out of an academic institution to have a GPA reflective of their professional dedication, not their ability to slack off for a year and cram it all in in one night.
Perhaps with a Bachelor of Stick-to-it-ness?
I was at least pleased that the lights aren't electronically controlled, all just showing through slits in the various wheels. But yeah, the particular choice of lighting isn't too great. Though it does take 60 W...
Slashdot Mirror
Their won cult that never should of ben allowed.
Aw, missed a chance for "aloud"
Fair enough, that example relies on pointer dereferencing. As you say references must refer to a valid object, and for the most part this is enforced by requiring them to be initialized.
While it's circuitous to have a never valid reference, it isn't particularly unlikely:
struct A {
int& ir1;
int& ir2;
A(int& i) : ir1(ir2), ir2(i) {}
};
With enough warnings enabled g++ warns about this, but I don't think it's the "don't compile this" kind of illegal but rather the "certain failure at runtime" kind, like any uninitialized variable. Likewise the simple:
int& f() {
int i;
return i;
}
Undefined, but no more forbidden than taking the address and returning it.
Your point that it causes "undefined behaviour" is exactly my point, were references properly constrained by the language this would be outright illegal, not merely undefined. Of course I haven't read the standard or Stroustrup closely enough to be able to cite anything so fire at will.
int* ip = 0;
int& ir = *ip;
I was at one of Stallman's talks on copyright, where he was preaching for change (among other things no copyright on "knowledge works" like software), and indeed exactly this question came up. When asked how the GPL would stand without copyright, he suggested that there would need to be new laws specifically addressing the issues of software freedom.
While you're dreaming up your personal utopia, why not?
Hey, if we're listing... my family's home machines have been named after fictional computers or artificial intelligences:
hactar, neuromancer, wintermute, brainiac, Windows boxes included Deep Thought, The Earth, The Oracle, and The Architect, routers were ennesby and jane, NAS is max (Headroom, that is).
I had a series of external hard drives named Kingdom, Power, Glory, and Forever.
My university's CS department named the computers in the labs after cereals, pasta, and soups (which identified what room they were in). When I was working there I started setting up some Final Fantasy themed ones (gurgu, corneria) but didn't get very far.
Yay for math, meant 9.62 million. Still "I get no false positives" is an interesting claim.
Where'd you find the time to check those 96.2 million messages?
Oh now that's just cruel.
Heh, so does this not count as a learning experience for you?
I know precisely what you mean. The Cat Who Walks Through Walls felt to me like more of a fan tribute to Heinlein than a real original story.
start the reactor
I wonder if this does actually directly apply. It seems like this might be a safety-related thing, that if employers require working in conditions that require protective gear to be reasonably safe that they must pay for setting it up, because otherwise even if said gear is provided there would be more reason to rush putting it on, or cutting corners and leaving out tedious or complicated elements, in order to get to work faster.
I seem to remember somewhere in the commentary for Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within that they also spent a lot of effort on creating a computer generated sky, but it looked unconvincing. Eventually they gave up and did the clouds by hand.
Hmm, well this exhibit reads off the text of a flame war, though just a forumular one.
But what if I comply? I was told I had ten seconds to comply!
Eh? Was there a beating heart in The Cask of Amontillado? Maybe "the beating of his hideous heart" from The Tell-Tale Heart would have been more appropriate?
Wait a minute, first you're talking about the real world and then Las Vegas. Make up your mind!
I've been thinking about this for a few months now, though mostly just talking myself out of possibilities. I was thinking of a magic system that had parallels to programming (which somewhat came from Wizard's Bane and the Earthsea cycle), as you mentioned, but I began to wonder if I might be able to make it more literally involve programming. As you and some other replies mentioned, the idea of programming in-game robots came up (and here I thought of the various puzzling situations of I, Robot), but I wanted to be able to eventually extend to the concept that the game world itself is but a program, and allow "magical" manipulation thereof. I've recently backed off a bit; lately I've been pondering logic gates in more typical adventure game puzzle situations.
Trying to decide on what level of abstraction to work from, and what kind of language, and reigning in my ambition, as well as reading some programming education research, hasn't yet led me too far. Thanks for opening this line of discussion, I'm going to check out the games that other responses have indicated. If anyone wants to discuss this or hear my rambling thoughts on the subject, drop me an email or an IM.
Ok, that sounds like a good idea now that I understand your reasoning. Do we even need an icon, then, or could someone interested just notice the https in the url? I guess the icon makes for an easier click target than the alternative (messing with menus).
You could go a bit more intrusive and have something like the password popup (or the bar that FF3 uses now), "Do you want to remember this certificate?", but you seem to be advocating no action unless the user requests it. And considering that almost all users will have no way of verifying a certificate, this seems like a reasonable conclusion.
So maybe just leave it somewhere in the menus and don't even bother with the icon.
Didn't Netscape once use blue for their padlock? Ah yes, here, and also shows the gold IE one (in response to someone else's yellow suggestion).
There are some nuances that aren't going to come across from a color. Maybe if they're contrasting with another color, particularly if the user is expecting to see either no lock or a green one, but still not something certain to be noticed.
Or are you suggesting a picture of some other object? Something intended to get attention rather than a simple palette shift (say, a red exclamation point) would be more likely to get that click you're suggesting. But I think the full screen warning message is sort of the natural conclusion of this line of reasoning, in that it requires attention. Under what circumstances would it make sense to ignore the flashing warning sign rather than clicking it and getting the details? If none, why should it be allowed by the interface?
A yellow padlock would look like gold and thus sort of imply goodness. Not that this invalidates your point, it's just difficult to show some icon that represents a more nuanced kind of "secure".
Good God, man, why do you think they're called mnemonics!
I want someone coming out of an academic institution to have a GPA reflective of their professional dedication, not their ability to slack off for a year and cram it all in in one night. Perhaps with a Bachelor of Stick-to-it-ness?
I was at least pleased that the lights aren't electronically controlled, all just showing through slits in the various wheels. But yeah, the particular choice of lighting isn't too great. Though it does take 60 W...
I think you're referring to Muphry's law here.