indeed.. if by 'found' you mean 'reported to Apple'.
Security work of this kind has always been dangerous, politically.. There's always a chance that you'll be arrested (or villified) for the crime of trying to stop other people using the exploit you've discovered, and there are countless examples of this occuring.
Just stop shooting the messenger. There is absolutely no benefit to reporting an exploit erroneously, and i'm sure neither Ellch or Maynor expected (or wanted) this kind of attention. If they did, they would have had something prepared.
The first title that was announced to have online content for the wii was Super Smash Bros Brawl.
From the page:
There was a reason Smash Bros. was announced at the meeting.
That was because when it was asked what product Nintendo would want to use to help it unveil its Wi-Fi Network, the first title on the list in both America and Japan was Smash Bros. So it was first decided to talk about Smash Bros. as an example of a Wi-Fi title, resulting in the game being announced before the development structure was finalized.
This information is backed up here. While it does not specifically state that SSBB would be the first wifi enabled wii title, it does say that it WILL be wifi enabled, and implies that it should be a release title.. Since it appears to have been pushed back by a few months, it is likely that we will, in fact, have to wait until 2007 for wifi enabled titles.
i know the logic is shaky, but the implication is there. Of course, this isn't taking into account the possible changes to the launch lineup, and any wifi demo games that may ship with the console. If i were nintendo, i'd certainly be shipping something small with the console, just to give people something to do while they waited for the big name titles, and for 'value added' credit.
Re:Performa 5200 and the mouse vs. network ritual.
on
Computer Voodoo?
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· Score: 1
and nor will you:) LCDs don't have CRTs (in merit of the fact that they are LCDs);) and therefore don't vibrate in the same way.
I remember back in the ol' bbs days, (when i was quite, quite young) i had a similar problem to the performa bus problem with a 386, which (of course) i'd tried to upgrade myself. A new modem (ooh 19.2k.. blazing fast) is not a big deal these days, but back then was a bit stressful.. for me anyway. it was installed, and should have been working properly. however, i couldn't get it to dial or transmit a signal unless i was constantly moving the mouse around. Luckily for me, i'd just set both the mouse & modem to the same IRQ, and a more knowledgeable friend fixed the problem quite easily.
have since had to deal with that exact performa issue (yeah, the tv card in them is teh sucks) but i don't believe we ever sorted out the cause. It's good to finally know exactly why the damn thing crashed every time we put it on the network.
very well, i grant you that.. if you'd done more than just read the ars technica article, you'd know what i was saying isn't bollocks. More information on the demonstrators can be found here and here. Apologies for the Amazon link, but David is a hard man to pin down and i'm busy.;)
if you were aware of the (limited) details that have been released, you'd know that while the vulnerability that the presenters (Jon Ellch and David Maynor) used was vendor specific, it still worked on the macbook's internal airport card
The demonstration was not really intended to point out the specific problem with these mac drivers. It was more intended to highlight several industry wide problems.
I'm not about to say that letting consumers know about these problems will help or hinder them in any way.. nor will pointing out any specific company. If these problems are as prevalent as Ellch and Maynor claim, virtually no amount of consumer education would solve the problem, and pointing the finger would be the security equivalent of sweeping the problem under the rug.
This is something that has bugged me for a while.. when will they work out that getting pseudoephedrine out of cold & flu tablets is not cost effective? If over the counter medicines were the sole source of materials for making amphetamines, the street price of the stuff would be more than twice what it is now. Not to mention the fact that there are almost always much larger amounts of other compounds in any products that contain any Drugs of Dependancy (e.g paracetamol, which causes hepatotoxicity and death in doses quite close to the theraputic level), and that stripping these out is (i believe) a generally lengthy and difficult process.
No, i don't run a meth lab..:P i just know some basic maths and maybe some chemistry. The people who actaully make large amounts of pseudoephedrine based drugs probably get their supplies from wholesalers. In raw form.
I don't really see any malicious intent in this.. someone probably just put 2 and 2 together and somehow got 44.
i suspect the problem is more likely that the people working on sophos couldn't work out how to make a trojan (malware, etc, etc..) for OSX, let alone a signature and removal method for it..
at my place of employment *ahem*, we've had two minor viral infections in the past two weeks. We run sophos over the (university) network as well as on each host machine. luckily, i only have to deal with a small portion of this, and i get to bitch about purchasing descisions, etc (ooh. like a real academic.. )
also, we often get complaints about how the desktop client operates, since it steals user focus when performing random scans, and sometimes doesn't give it back until it's finished.. a minor consideration, i know, but you'd be suprised how much of my day involves telling users that the computer isn't just preventing them from typing out of spite.
even without the obviousness of this article, i'd still be dubious about the message.
OTOH, at least it's not symantec or mcafee.. i haven't been exposed much to their enteprise products, but their end user clients are a marvel of modern software engineering (how does it not fall down? etc..)
well said. It's hard to agree with McAllister when so many of his premises are inherently flawed. Sure, if it really was a free market, his argument MIGHT be valid.
I also liked his naive "For DRM to fail in the entertainment industry, all that needs to happen is for customers to choose not to buy it, which in turn should convince artists not to use it.", like the artists are the ones that choose to use the stuff, and his assertion that people can use plain old-fashioned CDs to avoid DRM.. good one buddy.. next you'll be telling me to go to the cinema to avoid the advertising on DVDs.
Thanks for the clarification. I hold Warren's work in the highest regard, and i've heard him speak on this issue a couple of times. The summary is way out of character for him, but this clarification clears a lot up.
also, i have to say i completely agree with the panel's comments.. as many other posters have noted, indie companies that control their own distribution model (companies such as popcap or stardock) tend to do much better financially than those tied to a major distributor. The gap IS becoming much more obvious now, as some 'next-gen' (and i use the term in a purely derisive fasion) titles push the $10mil mark in funding costs, yet the vast majority fail to offer anything like this in returns.
and congratulations on summing me up in a paragraph. Perhaps you'd like a job with one of our fine government institutions.. say, centrelink.. or 'today, tonight'?
Slashdot Mirror
indeed.. if by 'found' you mean 'reported to Apple'.
Security work of this kind has always been dangerous, politically.. There's always a chance that you'll be arrested (or villified) for the crime of trying to stop other people using the exploit you've discovered, and there are countless examples of this occuring.
Just stop shooting the messenger. There is absolutely no benefit to reporting an exploit erroneously, and i'm sure neither Ellch or Maynor expected (or wanted) this kind of attention. If they did, they would have had something prepared.
Thanks for injecting some much needed sanity into this debate.
Too much speculation, not enough exploit patching.
arr.. just reread the article and noticed the '3rd party' part. my bad.
From the page: This information is backed up here. While it does not specifically state that SSBB would be the first wifi enabled wii title, it does say that it WILL be wifi enabled, and implies that it should be a release title.. Since it appears to have been pushed back by a few months, it is likely that we will, in fact, have to wait until 2007 for wifi enabled titles. i know the logic is shaky, but the implication is there. Of course, this isn't taking into account the possible changes to the launch lineup, and any wifi demo games that may ship with the console.
If i were nintendo, i'd certainly be shipping something small with the console, just to give people something to do while they waited for the big name titles, and for 'value added' credit.
he's already in. See the SSBB E3 trailer.
and nor will you :) LCDs don't have CRTs (in merit of the fact that they are LCDs) ;) and therefore don't vibrate in the same way.
I remember back in the ol' bbs days, (when i was quite, quite young) i had a similar problem to the performa bus problem with a 386, which (of course) i'd tried to upgrade myself. A new modem (ooh 19.2k.. blazing fast) is not a big deal these days, but back then was a bit stressful.. for me anyway. it was installed, and should have been working properly. however, i couldn't get it to dial or transmit a signal unless i was constantly moving the mouse around. Luckily for me, i'd just set both the mouse & modem to the same IRQ, and a more knowledgeable friend fixed the problem quite easily.
have since had to deal with that exact performa issue (yeah, the tv card in them is teh sucks) but i don't believe we ever sorted out the cause. It's good to finally know exactly why the damn thing crashed every time we put it on the network.
very well, i grant you that.. if you'd done more than just read the ars technica article, you'd know what i was saying isn't bollocks. ;)
More information on the demonstrators can be found here and here. Apologies for the Amazon link, but David is a hard man to pin down and i'm busy.
misleading eh?
if you were aware of the (limited) details that have been released, you'd know that while the vulnerability that the presenters (Jon Ellch and David Maynor) used was vendor specific, it still worked on the macbook's internal airport card
The demonstration was not really intended to point out the specific problem with these mac drivers. It was more intended to highlight several industry wide problems.
I'm not about to say that letting consumers know about these problems will help or hinder them in any way.. nor will pointing out any specific company. If these problems are as prevalent as Ellch and Maynor claim, virtually no amount of consumer education would solve the problem, and pointing the finger would be the security equivalent of sweeping the problem under the rug.
hear hear. can't say that id have produced anything worth actually playing recently. That, more than any piracy problem, is what's hurting id's sales.
Searching for 'mosquito deterrent' on google gives compoundsecurity.co.uk as the 6th link. No more to say, really..
This is something that has bugged me for a while.. when will they work out that getting pseudoephedrine out of cold & flu tablets is not cost effective? If over the counter medicines were the sole source of materials for making amphetamines, the street price of the stuff would be more than twice what it is now. Not to mention the fact that there are almost always much larger amounts of other compounds in any products that contain any Drugs of Dependancy (e.g paracetamol, which causes hepatotoxicity and death in doses quite close to the theraputic level), and that stripping these out is (i believe) a generally lengthy and difficult process.
:P i just know some basic maths and maybe some chemistry. The people who actaully make large amounts of pseudoephedrine based drugs probably get their supplies from wholesalers. In raw form.
No, i don't run a meth lab..
I don't really see any malicious intent in this.. someone probably just put 2 and 2 together and somehow got 44.
i suspect the problem is more likely that the people working on sophos couldn't work out how to make a trojan (malware, etc, etc..) for OSX, let alone a signature and removal method for it..
at my place of employment *ahem*, we've had two minor viral infections in the past two weeks. We run sophos over the (university) network as well as on each host machine. luckily, i only have to deal with a small portion of this, and i get to bitch about purchasing descisions, etc (ooh. like a real academic.. )
also, we often get complaints about how the desktop client operates, since it steals user focus when performing random scans, and sometimes doesn't give it back until it's finished.. a minor consideration, i know, but you'd be suprised how much of my day involves telling users that the computer isn't just preventing them from typing out of spite.
even without the obviousness of this article, i'd still be dubious about the message.
OTOH, at least it's not symantec or mcafee.. i haven't been exposed much to their enteprise products, but their end user clients are a marvel of modern software engineering (how does it not fall down? etc..)
my 2c
*makes mental note* pity i don't live in Brisbane (or LA) ;)
kudos, everything pandemic touch atm turns to gold.
i'm pretty sure i don't have a tasteful reply to that..
:/
plenty of dead music jokes tho
I guess we have a responsibility to keep them in the mainstream..
:P
i have to be careful not to sound like a piracy advocate here, but...
do yourself a favor.. send your grandma some oggs today.
well said. It's hard to agree with McAllister when so many of his premises are inherently flawed. Sure, if it really was a free market, his argument MIGHT be valid.
I also liked his naive "For DRM to fail in the entertainment industry, all that needs to happen is for customers to choose not to buy it, which in turn should convince artists not to use it.", like the artists are the ones that choose to use the stuff, and his assertion that people can use plain old-fashioned CDs to avoid DRM.. good one buddy.. next you'll be telling me to go to the cinema to avoid the advertising on DVDs.
Yeah? Twelve publishers turned down Harry Potter.
Quality != Profit
Don't worry Gigs.. i thought your little name joke was funny.. :P
Thanks for the clarification. I hold Warren's work in the highest regard, and i've heard him speak on this issue a couple of times. The summary is way out of character for him, but this clarification clears a lot up.
also, i have to say i completely agree with the panel's comments.. as many other posters have noted, indie companies that control their own distribution model (companies such as popcap or stardock) tend to do much better financially than those tied to a major distributor. The gap IS becoming much more obvious now, as some 'next-gen' (and i use the term in a purely derisive fasion) titles push the $10mil mark in funding costs, yet the vast majority fail to offer anything like this in returns.
actually, it's bated as in abated, as in stopped.
but whatever turns you on...
I know two people on the team for this project... both of them are female. :P
Seems like the MPAA & the RIAA are having a competition..
they're standing on a rotating platform, trying to see who can spin the fastest.
ahem..
what a way to find out that 'Plain Old Text' still strips tags..
guess only the aussies in the audience will understand my spiteful sarcasm now.
*shrugs*
and congratulations on summing me up in a paragraph. Perhaps you'd like a job with one of our fine government institutions.. say, centrelink.. or 'today, tonight'?
for the non aussies, .
problem with this is that it requires the two idiots to also be reasonable enough to comply.
besides, you're talking about individual instances, the OP was talking about racism on a national scale.