Re:Long time BeOS expert...
on
Zeta Goes Gold
·
· Score: 0
Yes, PalmOS has officially stated they do not and will not let the source out in any form, licensing or not. Also, the source was leaked and what has changed in Zeta/Beta from R5.1 + bone7a and beyond (basically R6) is only done in what was leaked to the net. Bottomline, Bernd has no source license, it doesn't exist. Talk to anyone and everyone in the know, he won't address the topic/issue, and basically is ripping people off by selling a 5.5+ year old OS with some graphical additions to personalize the BeOS R5+. If you have been around long enough, you would know this to be the truth, the whole truth, so help your God.:) BTW, another substantial proof is the binary hacked version numbers in the kernel, the attempt that is. It was caught within hours of the first Zeta Beta and subsequent releases.
Re:Do they or do they not have the source legally?
on
Zeta Goes Gold
·
· Score: 5, Interesting
There is no question about the source leak. If you hung around the BeShare community long enough starting right after PalmOS bought the IP and engineers for 11 million, you could have a copy of the tarball. BTW, it was corrupted, only parts of the tarball came available to the general masses. I know, I downloaded from a BeSharer the tarball, uncompressed it and indeed had the sources. Kernel sources (partials), stuff like malloc and such. Seriously, the BeOS core code was last dated 1992-93, not kidding. A LOT of the core of the BeOS was and such still is in the form of Zeta/Beta, 12-13 years old. Now, that is true with a lot of other OS's, NeXTStep/OSX is a good example (classnames are NSClassName for example, too complex to change for both Apple and old time developers).... However, Zeta is not even available legally in source to anyone. Palm has denied it to Zeta, and to the community at large (in 2001 there was a campaign to get the source opened, PalmOS said forget-about-it with a big FU to boot coming from the 'community' in response).
There are a *LOT* of things broken in BeOS R5.1 + bone7a + personalities (aka, Zeta Beta/Gold). It has been a running joke that ever single release past the last BeOS R5.1 that Be Inc set on the world before shuttering its doors and windows has been more and more buggy. This is true, Bernd has done about the worst possible job getting people to build software for Zeta. The other running joke is Amiga folks and BeOS folks should join together and save the world on their flying carpets and spinning teapots.
Be Inc made the easy decision to head to x86 for a number of reasons. First off the Hobbit turned PPC dual systems they were selling didn't do well in volume (sold about 1800 units, 2 of which I own). Then helping to address this problem, they got out of the hardware business (much like NeXT did 3+ years earlier), and headed to what was then a promising PPC/Mac clone market. Steve Jobs was paid 430+ million to come in and fix Apple, part of which was to rescind the licenses for cloning, in the process they closed up the new mobo architecture. Be had no options but to port to x86. It was a good decision, it was the only decision, that or go under (which as you know they did when they switched yet once again the market focus to the promised bubble.com NetAppliance/Handhelds). We know where Palm is these days. Anyone got a phone with a camera, dayminder with Stinger on it?:) I didn't think so. (Stinger was BeOS-Lite-Appliance version of the Be Inc. OS)
Long time BeOS expert...
on
Zeta Goes Gold
·
· Score: -1, Troll
To summarize, BeOS/Zeta is old stuff. Bernd/YT don't have rights to the source, they have hacked binaries to make it look as if they have done compiles, they have delays in the years, they are understaffed, over promising, and likely are breaking the law. Zeta is a HUGE disappointment. No tools like PB or IB exist for BeOS (or ever will, many tried in the 97-2000 era and failed), no modern compiler (GCC is OLD OLD, and the binaries for the new GCC are not compatible with the old BeOS libs), and the list goes on. Don't bother, the likes of all top talent that existed for BeOS do it *ONLY* as a hobby, and the rest got smart and moved to OSX or even linux/windows. Its sad, BeOS was fun and hot 7-8 years ago. Today, it is a forgotten afterthought. Most of the IP of BeOS has made its way into OSX or Linux via folks contributions or jobs. Spotlight is basically BFS graphed into the HFS. The benefits of Zeta/BeOS are found elsewhere, and for a LOT cheaper costs if you consider anquish and frustrations.
BeOS, long live the memory, you are stillborn in the form of Zeta.
Gloat gloat. 7 years ago I said the only way that Apple was going to make a big impact in the world of OS'es was to make Rhapsody available on Intel/x86. What I find interesting about Dvorak and Apple's words are they both seem to ensue the thought of no generic x86 solutions. The marketshare for apple x86 hardware will drop even more than PPC if they don't make the OSX available for x86 in general. Reason, nobody is going to buy high end x86 hardware (dual 64 or 128 bit) simply cause it has Apple's name on it. Not anyone I know. OSX will have to be available to the 1000s of other boxes in the Enterprise too. My prediction, this whole thing will go the way of NeXT, where x86 OSX (then NeXTstep 3.x and OS 4.x) is available to the masses that already own x86 boxes. If they don't, Apple will continue to be a niche hardware vendor and have gained nothing but another 2-3 years lease on life. I hope they do more than the mundane here, much more.
Albeit the 36 between denver and boulder is where StorageTek is located, and Sun had/has offices out there, I find it interesting that one of the hottest spots for tech (level 3 is out there too) and these two companies are in one of the *worst* available broadband locations in Colorado. It will be interesting to see if ST as part of this purchase moves some if not all the offices out of the CO plants/research centers and heads to someplace like Seattle or even the bay area. One of the things over the decades as I have followed (and lived literally next door) is how low on the radar ST is with its hiring, layoffs (even in bad times it hardly makes the local newspapers as a big deal), and how moves or layoffs as a purchase results will be handled locally. Jobs are not easy to comeby, and the CO economy is fairly week these days as a result of the dot bomb trend of not-so-yesteryear.
Upon waking would we call them 'news junkies', or just the well informed? I speculate that 41% of the people in that study are indeed better off and more informed than those that don't pick up the newspapers or read email first thing in the AM. Thank god we are not carving editorials in stone!
Check out Ruby, the language. It runs circles around Rexx, is free and very cool. True objects, all the time. Garbage collection built in, as well as everything is an object. The best of Smalltalk, Lisp, BASIC, C, and more.
Wondering how many techs that are out of work are also self employed as well as having dignity to not collect unemployment even if they have the ability or are self employed.
In this review, look closely at this photo...
http://arstechnica.com/reviews/os/macosx-10.4.ars/ 3
Isn't apple at all concerned their engineers are all white, 30-40 years old and middle class? How about some diversification?
Like this is really news. NASA, overbudget has a damaged image, infrastructure that is old school (man, do they need an managerial enima) thinking, a 'floating' brick for a rocket and deployment platform, blowing up and burning on reentry ships? No wonder? Hello? NASA should have been shut down a long time ago. At over 1,000,000,000.00 USD per launch, that money would be MUCH better spent funding retraining programs for the out of work engineers, say showing them how to flip hamburgers and serve the people, not themselves to our hard earned tax dollars.
The 70s show and a song called 'Disco Inferno' comes to mind when I read this NASA Propaganda machine release. I visited the NASA website to help their congressional money machine hit count metric for yucks and was rather entertained to find the astronauts selling hard their jobs. I almost believe their B$ until the guy so carelessly stuttered that this would be the safest shuttle flight yet... How can that be with NASA actually cutting safety to get this lauch out the door? I laughed, and then realized there is no shortage of people that have been sold the promise of space walks in return for their lives.
Education is in business, one business is all to make money for the Regents and the industry that is Education. It is no suprise then that Education overproduces and the student gets pooched in the process. One thing I learned a long time ago before getting my BS in CS/Math and a MS in SportsMed is never, ever, *EVER* believe what education tells you. I was fortunate, I came out of school in the early 90s and during the tech ride. I feel the pain for those in the late 90s that got sold a bill of goods on how there would be 100K per year jobs for web programmers. Those folks are now flipping burgers for the most part. If you want a job that pays, go into biotech or nanotech, or humaniod robotics. That will be the next boom for 20-30 years. Get used to the idea of the average human worker being replaced, particularly in IT/Tech. And of course, good luck.
Where did the author get thousands of users? Maybe thousands of thousands? From 99 to 2002 my guess is these companies sold in the neighborhood of a few hundred million DIMMS or DRAMS.
It was replaced with porno, diseases, fear mongering by the establishment and of course an insatiable desire to watch others struggle to make ourselves feel better. I met my GF online, it works.
Is it me, or are just wasting money and time looking for the meaning of life when we could better spend the time and money helping folks on this planet?
Well, I don't own a TV that is HD enabled, so it is good thing that they realize a rollout period for 90+% of the viewers needs to be non HD enabled. I don't think I'll be buying a HDTV any time in the next 3-5 years.
Well, if the P2P and CDR industry has little to no impact on the income of the artists or the losses that the Music Industry claims it has had, how is the Music Lobbied Taxes on the CDRs going to be refunded to the consumers that so lazily agreed to be taxed for a product which MOST are used 'legally'. It amazes me how the average consumer is willing to be taxed to death and not revolt. Didn't the founding fathers of the US of A break away from England over religious freedoms and 17% annual taxes?
Thought Dell had already made the committment
on
Dell Might do AMD
·
· Score: 0
I read about 2-3 weeks ago that Dell had made the committment to use AMD. Maybe the mention was wrong. If right, is this Dell's way of backing out but keeping the door open. It seems Dell is pushing Intel's buttons a bit. The last thing in the world I can imagine Intel wanting is THE major PC maker to start using AMD-anything. Intel, scrambling???
I can see it now, we don't need to experience the real thing, or her real voice. Just put these electrodes on dear, and I'll dial in the voice overlay of Susan St. James, or Rachael Welch. Oh my, I have dated myself:)
Wasn't it Stallman that came out a while ago in interview and said Linus and his Version Control usage of BK was inconsistant with the open source movement and Stallman's views on such? Interesting, I wonder if Linus had a change of mind due to Stallman's public distain for Linus' version control choices.
Been done, they are not very creative on this front. And I do believe that guys worth 5+ billion (on paper or in real dollars) aren't going to do stupid things. I would hire some really smart lawyers, advisors and let them figure out how my money is going to double and trip in 5 years time. Besides they can get loans to exercise and buy options without a salary. BTW, did anyone even consider this Steve Jobs move is a has been, done it thing? Google, focus on googling tools, not PR. Oh wait, those days are over now, they have to suck it up to the investor banks now.
Slashdot Mirror
Yes, PalmOS has officially stated they do not and will not let the source out in any form, licensing or not. Also, the source was leaked and what has changed in Zeta/Beta from R5.1 + bone7a and beyond (basically R6) is only done in what was leaked to the net. Bottomline, Bernd has no source license, it doesn't exist. Talk to anyone and everyone in the know, he won't address the topic/issue, and basically is ripping people off by selling a 5.5+ year old OS with some graphical additions to personalize the BeOS R5+. If you have been around long enough, you would know this to be the truth, the whole truth, so help your God. :) BTW, another substantial proof is the binary hacked version numbers in the kernel, the attempt that is. It was caught within hours of the first Zeta Beta and subsequent releases.
There is no question about the source leak. If you hung around the BeShare community long enough starting right after PalmOS bought the IP and engineers for 11 million, you could have a copy of the tarball. BTW, it was corrupted, only parts of the tarball came available to the general masses. I know, I downloaded from a BeSharer the tarball, uncompressed it and indeed had the sources. Kernel sources (partials), stuff like malloc and such. Seriously, the BeOS core code was last dated 1992-93, not kidding. A LOT of the core of the BeOS was and such still is in the form of Zeta/Beta, 12-13 years old. Now, that is true with a lot of other OS's, NeXTStep/OSX is a good example (classnames are NSClassName for example, too complex to change for both Apple and old time developers).... However, Zeta is not even available legally in source to anyone. Palm has denied it to Zeta, and to the community at large (in 2001 there was a campaign to get the source opened, PalmOS said forget-about-it with a big FU to boot coming from the 'community' in response).
There are a *LOT* of things broken in BeOS R5.1 + bone7a + personalities (aka, Zeta Beta/Gold). It has been a running joke that ever single release past the last BeOS R5.1 that Be Inc set on the world before shuttering its doors and windows has been more and more buggy. This is true, Bernd has done about the worst possible job getting people to build software for Zeta. The other running joke is Amiga folks and BeOS folks should join together and save the world on their flying carpets and spinning teapots.
Be Inc made the easy decision to head to x86 for a number of reasons. First off the Hobbit turned PPC dual systems they were selling didn't do well in volume (sold about 1800 units, 2 of which I own). Then helping to address this problem, they got out of the hardware business (much like NeXT did 3+ years earlier), and headed to what was then a promising PPC/Mac clone market. Steve Jobs was paid 430+ million to come in and fix Apple, part of which was to rescind the licenses for cloning, in the process they closed up the new mobo architecture. Be had no options but to port to x86. It was a good decision, it was the only decision, that or go under (which as you know they did when they switched yet once again the market focus to the promised bubble.com NetAppliance/Handhelds). We know where Palm is these days. Anyone got a phone with a camera, dayminder with Stinger on it? :) I didn't think so. (Stinger was BeOS-Lite-Appliance version of the Be Inc. OS)
To summarize, BeOS/Zeta is old stuff. Bernd/YT don't have rights to the source, they have hacked binaries to make it look as if they have done compiles, they have delays in the years, they are understaffed, over promising, and likely are breaking the law. Zeta is a HUGE disappointment. No tools like PB or IB exist for BeOS (or ever will, many tried in the 97-2000 era and failed), no modern compiler (GCC is OLD OLD, and the binaries for the new GCC are not compatible with the old BeOS libs), and the list goes on. Don't bother, the likes of all top talent that existed for BeOS do it *ONLY* as a hobby, and the rest got smart and moved to OSX or even linux/windows. Its sad, BeOS was fun and hot 7-8 years ago. Today, it is a forgotten afterthought. Most of the IP of BeOS has made its way into OSX or Linux via folks contributions or jobs. Spotlight is basically BFS graphed into the HFS. The benefits of Zeta/BeOS are found elsewhere, and for a LOT cheaper costs if you consider anquish and frustrations. BeOS, long live the memory, you are stillborn in the form of Zeta.
Gloat gloat. 7 years ago I said the only way that Apple was going to make a big impact in the world of OS'es was to make Rhapsody available on Intel/x86. What I find interesting about Dvorak and Apple's words are they both seem to ensue the thought of no generic x86 solutions. The marketshare for apple x86 hardware will drop even more than PPC if they don't make the OSX available for x86 in general. Reason, nobody is going to buy high end x86 hardware (dual 64 or 128 bit) simply cause it has Apple's name on it. Not anyone I know. OSX will have to be available to the 1000s of other boxes in the Enterprise too. My prediction, this whole thing will go the way of NeXT, where x86 OSX (then NeXTstep 3.x and OS 4.x) is available to the masses that already own x86 boxes. If they don't, Apple will continue to be a niche hardware vendor and have gained nothing but another 2-3 years lease on life. I hope they do more than the mundane here, much more.
Albeit the 36 between denver and boulder is where StorageTek is located, and Sun had/has offices out there, I find it interesting that one of the hottest spots for tech (level 3 is out there too) and these two companies are in one of the *worst* available broadband locations in Colorado. It will be interesting to see if ST as part of this purchase moves some if not all the offices out of the CO plants/research centers and heads to someplace like Seattle or even the bay area. One of the things over the decades as I have followed (and lived literally next door) is how low on the radar ST is with its hiring, layoffs (even in bad times it hardly makes the local newspapers as a big deal), and how moves or layoffs as a purchase results will be handled locally. Jobs are not easy to comeby, and the CO economy is fairly week these days as a result of the dot bomb trend of not-so-yesteryear.
Upon waking would we call them 'news junkies', or just the well informed? I speculate that 41% of the people in that study are indeed better off and more informed than those that don't pick up the newspapers or read email first thing in the AM. Thank god we are not carving editorials in stone!
Check out Ruby, the language. It runs circles around Rexx, is free and very cool. True objects, all the time. Garbage collection built in, as well as everything is an object. The best of Smalltalk, Lisp, BASIC, C, and more.
Scigger?
Wondering how many techs that are out of work are also self employed as well as having dignity to not collect unemployment even if they have the ability or are self employed.
... is more and more looking like the borg.
In this review, look closely at this photo... http://arstechnica.com/reviews/os/macosx-10.4.ars/ 3
Isn't apple at all concerned their engineers are all white, 30-40 years old and middle class? How about some diversification?
Like this is really news. NASA, overbudget has a damaged image, infrastructure that is old school (man, do they need an managerial enima) thinking, a 'floating' brick for a rocket and deployment platform, blowing up and burning on reentry ships? No wonder? Hello? NASA should have been shut down a long time ago. At over 1,000,000,000.00 USD per launch, that money would be MUCH better spent funding retraining programs for the out of work engineers, say showing them how to flip hamburgers and serve the people, not themselves to our hard earned tax dollars.
The 70s show and a song called 'Disco Inferno' comes to mind when I read this NASA Propaganda machine release. I visited the NASA website to help their congressional money machine hit count metric for yucks and was rather entertained to find the astronauts selling hard their jobs. I almost believe their B$ until the guy so carelessly stuttered that this would be the safest shuttle flight yet... How can that be with NASA actually cutting safety to get this lauch out the door? I laughed, and then realized there is no shortage of people that have been sold the promise of space walks in return for their lives.
Education is in business, one business is all to make money for the Regents and the industry that is Education. It is no suprise then that Education overproduces and the student gets pooched in the process. One thing I learned a long time ago before getting my BS in CS/Math and a MS in SportsMed is never, ever, *EVER* believe what education tells you. I was fortunate, I came out of school in the early 90s and during the tech ride. I feel the pain for those in the late 90s that got sold a bill of goods on how there would be 100K per year jobs for web programmers. Those folks are now flipping burgers for the most part. If you want a job that pays, go into biotech or nanotech, or humaniod robotics. That will be the next boom for 20-30 years. Get used to the idea of the average human worker being replaced, particularly in IT/Tech. And of course, good luck.
Where did the author get thousands of users? Maybe thousands of thousands? From 99 to 2002 my guess is these companies sold in the neighborhood of a few hundred million DIMMS or DRAMS.
It was replaced with porno, diseases, fear mongering by the establishment and of course an insatiable desire to watch others struggle to make ourselves feel better. I met my GF online, it works.
Is it me, or are just wasting money and time looking for the meaning of life when we could better spend the time and money helping folks on this planet?
Well, I don't own a TV that is HD enabled, so it is good thing that they realize a rollout period for 90+% of the viewers needs to be non HD enabled. I don't think I'll be buying a HDTV any time in the next 3-5 years.
Well, if the P2P and CDR industry has little to no impact on the income of the artists or the losses that the Music Industry claims it has had, how is the Music Lobbied Taxes on the CDRs going to be refunded to the consumers that so lazily agreed to be taxed for a product which MOST are used 'legally'. It amazes me how the average consumer is willing to be taxed to death and not revolt. Didn't the founding fathers of the US of A break away from England over religious freedoms and 17% annual taxes?
I read about 2-3 weeks ago that Dell had made the committment to use AMD. Maybe the mention was wrong. If right, is this Dell's way of backing out but keeping the door open. It seems Dell is pushing Intel's buttons a bit. The last thing in the world I can imagine Intel wanting is THE major PC maker to start using AMD-anything. Intel, scrambling???
I can see it now, we don't need to experience the real thing, or her real voice. Just put these electrodes on dear, and I'll dial in the voice overlay of Susan St. James, or Rachael Welch. Oh my, I have dated myself :)
Wasn't it Stallman that came out a while ago in interview and said Linus and his Version Control usage of BK was inconsistant with the open source movement and Stallman's views on such? Interesting, I wonder if Linus had a change of mind due to Stallman's public distain for Linus' version control choices.
Been done, they are not very creative on this front. And I do believe that guys worth 5+ billion (on paper or in real dollars) aren't going to do stupid things. I would hire some really smart lawyers, advisors and let them figure out how my money is going to double and trip in 5 years time. Besides they can get loans to exercise and buy options without a salary. BTW, did anyone even consider this Steve Jobs move is a has been, done it thing? Google, focus on googling tools, not PR. Oh wait, those days are over now, they have to suck it up to the investor banks now.