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Dell Might do AMD
mboverload writes "In a move that will surely make waves in the industry, Dell's CEO, Kevin Rollins, has said they may provide machines decked out with AMD CPU's if their customers really want them. "We are still looking at AMD; they have fairly good technology," said Rollins. "
They'll never do it.
Dear Dell,
Please continue to offer less choices at higher prices.
Please continue to lock us in to Intel only.
Please continue to outsource your support to the clueless.
Please continue to... nevermind, I found another company.
Color me cynic, but could this be a challenge to Intel to lower their prices for Dell? Hmmmmm.
Stuck down a hole! In the middle of the night! With an owl!
Wow! This is turning out to be a remarkable year!
Not only are we getting Linux on the Desktop, but we're also getting AMD in Dells!
Just like last year!
Heard that. I give it a month before they revert back to their intel ways...
Call Dell and say you want quotes for an Opteron system. Dell does listen to Customers.
I wonder what kind of concession Dell wants from Intel this time 'round.
Does anyone else get the feeling that Dell doesn't know what the heck they're doing with AMD?
I guess everytime they want to apply pricing pressure on Intel, they submit a story to Slashdot.
I'm a big tall mofo.
In post 9-11 America, Dell fights monoculture to fight terror.
Dell using AMD would be a win not only for Dell customers but for all computer buyers at large.
This will boost AMds image, increase supply
and most of all,
make Intel compete better price-wise and by performance.
http://www.livejournal.com/users/metricmusic
I find it hard to believe that the average dell customer, the essentially computer illiterate home user just looking to check their e-mail and use office software really cares what CPU they have, if they even understand the difference. If people are looking for a high-end machine to get better fps at "insert game here," they usually aren't even looking at Dell.
Haven't they already said that several times? Someone at dell might just really hate AMD enough to play games with them.
they have fairly good technology," said Rollins
:] yup, and nukes can do a fairly large damage, and B. Gates if fairly wealthy, and Antartica is fairly cold, and
I am putting myself to the fullest possible use, which is all I can think that any conscious entity can ever hope to do.
where ever it mentions AMD, swap this with linux and you can gauge the progress here. Dell is always "might" this and that.
Jonathanjk.com
RIAA setup bittorrent server,
Duke Nukem Forever went gold,
Microsoft unconditionally released source code to windows.
Slashdot impliments dupe filter and story/author/editor moderation.
liqbase
Rollin's noncommittal comment that they have 'fairly good technology' certainly stands out. It confirms the impression he's trying to convey that Dell would only be interested in going with AMD if the customers really want it.
Perhaps he intends to use this as a bargaining chip not with Intel, but with AMD!
Phoenix, Boston, Little Rock, see a pattern?
What will it be this time? Will it be AMD inside?
Sounds like a bad motherboard, not a bad AMD chip.
It could also be the device driver.
Do you work for Intel marketing?
Well, regardless of whether they accept AMDs or not, the key here this time around is, "if their customers really want them." So...perhaps someone should express that they really want them.
A large number of bears were seen queueing outside a restroom
Personally, though, I'm typing this on an AMD-64 Acer. Behind it is an iMac. What is this Dell and this Intel of which you speak?
Panurge has posted for the last time. Thanks for the positive moderations.
Why haven't they done this before? I mean, a large part of their business is selling to corporations. AMD chips are very stable compared to what they used to be, they're cheaper, and they're plenty fast enough for standard business desktops. Being cheaper, you'd think most companies would go with the AMD, so that when it came time to upgrade a few desktops, it wouldn't break the budget.
Personally, being the IT guy at my company, I always buy AMD systems. About the same bang for way less bucks. And let's face it, the suits up top love it when you can add a bit more to the bottom line.
We have seen these articles before. However, with Intel having to switch to dual core to increase performance due to nearing a brickwall in the area of performance increase via CPU clock increasing, perhaps Dell sees AMD as a better partner. AMD is no longer the butt of egg frying on CPU jokes thanks to their new power saving chips that actually put out less heat than Intel's Pentium 4 offerings. If I were him, I would start with AMD64 servers, because without a 64-bit AMD server offering, I think Dell is losing alot of orders to other companies like MBX.
Powered by caffeine and sugar; BSD
FTFA:"We are still looking at AMD; they have fairly good technology"
Fairly good? What rock have they been hiding under all these years?
This already was said in the past. It won't happen.
See, Intel has 80% of the desktop market and 90-95% of the x86 server market. This is quite unlike to change. It doesn't really matters how fast are AMD CPUs, people seems to care more about the chipsets, and that's the achiles' heel of AMD, they just make CPUs not chipsets.
With intel, I can buy a motherboard with a intel or serverworks chipsets, which is not exactly the same than a VIA/Nvidia shitty chipset that people uses with AMDs.
Dell's talked about this before and it's always seemed to me that they play the AMD card in order to force Intel to give 'em a sweeter deal. Sort of like when AOL threatens to use Netscape instead of IE as their default web browser. Just exerting leverage - they won't really ever do it (though I'd love to be proven wrong).
James
"We are still looking at AMD; they have fairly good technology," said Rollins.
AMD's technology is on par with Intel. It's their marketing that falls short.
It's that time of the month again.
Dell CEO is a jerk...
If he was serios about AMD, he would've done it already
I really hope Intel just says: "Ok! Go for it!"
how long until
----------
ICLOD, a better way to waste your real life....
I mean, nVidia just did this new P4 chipset to let you pull their dual-GPU trick on Intel, and since all the hardcore gamers use Athlon-64 about the only market for this chipset is Dell. If Dell starts shipping AMD there goes the market...
I don't think I'd buy Dell servers anyway, but I *certainly* won't entertain it at all if I can't get them with Opteron processors. For the kinds of tasks we generally run on my company's server farm, the Opteron is noticibly faster AND cheaper per unit. A no brainer choice.
As near as I can tell, unless you are going to use a system for a particular GAME that's optimised for Intel cpus or plan to do media encoding, Intel is going to be playing 2nd fiddle to AMD for the near term.
Given that Dell tends to cater to the generally uninformed masses and middle market businesses, perhaps they feel that their customers simply don't know or don't care to know what the real difference is. In the absense of shrinking market share, perhaps they feel they'll make more money by consolidating their production around one particular architecture.
*shrug*
to get in trouble? This is a recurring theme from Dell... We may go AMD. Then no. They do it almost annually now, and haven't released squat. It's just a threat to Intel. Which sucks, because when it comes to 64-bit (AMD64, not Itanic) AMD should be inside, not Intel.
Nobody seriously considering changing suppliers calls the new supplier's stuff "fairly good." What's their slogan if they make the switch?
Dell Computers - Now with fairly good technology!
Funny.. I run an AMD Athlon XP2600+ and have been running this system with an Abit board for about 2 years now.
I don't remeber the last time it crashed on me actually - it has been impeccably reliable, and performance is still good despite its age!
I reckon timing is about right.. its been, what, 5 or 6 months since the last time 'Dell might have been going to do AMD'. I've lost count of how many times this has been claimed, its certainly been going on for something like 5 years now. I'll believe in an AMD based Dell the moment I see one for sale on their website. Till then the speculation is pointless, Dell have always done this to ensure Intel continue to give them good prices.
"Joy is not in things; it is in us." Richard Wagner
When they couldn't beat Dell on price, Gateway at least had AMD chips as a way of differentiating themselves. Then they dumped AMD; bad move.
AMD CPUs have been 100% compatible, usually cheaper, and often faster for 10 years or more. What took them so long to realize that?
If Dell, who has a significant presence in Austin, were to start buying from AMD, who also has a significant presence in Austin, they may be able to get some tax breaks from the Austin city council, who also have (unfortunately for Austin residents) a significant presence on Austin.
I know it's an impossibility and AMD would be insane to do it but Dell seems like they've played this particular note so many times in the past that I'd like to see AMD answer once with a press release going something like this:
Today, in one of the strangest announcements by a technology company in recent memory AMD said that their rival Intel should in no way be concerned about the recent comments from computer maker Dell and that no Dell computer would ever feature an AMD processor regardless of how much Dell was willing to pay for them. Said AMD "Dell makes crap and we won't be a party to it at any price!"
Appended to the end of comments you post. 120 chars.
AMD is better off for not having the proccessors in Dell's computers. It would mean more sales, but it would mean more people would have problems with computers built with AMD proccessors. In the end, AMD wins without Dell
Free MacMini
If Dell will do this what will happen soon:
:)
1. I'll get AMD notebook and desktop at work (100% Dell oriented) because they are cheaper
2. C# compiler will be running faster
3. My boss will force me to work faster because of that
NOW, I CAN ALWAYS SAY:
This cannot run faster because it's Intel
If they do this, I'll be P4 for gaming in opposite.
I have an AMD box that I put a video-capture card into and I wouldn't be able to capture more than a few minutes of video before the system would either lock-up or spontaneously reboot.
It's just as likely you have a flacky motherboard or flacky ram as chipset incompatibilities. For example, my system here started to suffer from random reboots and crashes till I finally isolated the problem to the memory having single bit errors when warm. I run an AMD 2800xp, have 3 drives, and my PCI slots are full. While my cooling system should be adquate [120mm case fan running 5v rather than 12v, 90mm power supply fan, 70mm cpu fan, 60mm GFX fan]. My issues go away when I use PNY memory, and they go away when I add fans and run coverless. I am able to capture up to 4hrs of video without crashing.
One of the reasons I started going with VIA chipset motherboards was the compatibility with a vast variety of memory including that cheepo stuff. The disadvantage is you get given this cheepo stuff that people can't use on their intel chipsets that has intermittent hard to diagnose issues. Also many OEMs designate AMD as the cheep system and use sub standard parts doesn't really help matters.
There were issues with non-intel chipsets in the 1990s. Microsoft was pretty much an intel only house and no thought was given to anything else. I remember many headaches with TNT2 video cards and both Cyrix and VIA chipsets. But these days AMD is very popular at MS esp since the AMD Opteron.
Why not bring up your issues on your friendly neighborhood capture card news group, and your motherboard's newsgroup. If nothing else there always is someone out there to help you with trouble shooting, or perhaps someone already documented the issue.
There is no sanctuary. There is no sanctuary. SHUT UP! There is no shut up. There is no shut up.
Please give us the less than $200 pc and
a less than $400 laptop.
Funny.. I run an AMD Athlon XP2600+ and have been running this system with an Abit board for about 2 years now.
Agreed. I have one Asus k7v333 with Crucial that has been running a xp2000 for a couple of years now. Wasn't so stable under winme, very very stable under 2k and xp.
My biostar vip pro motherboard with generic memory, not so stable, but that's been resolved with different memory.
There is no sanctuary. There is no sanctuary. SHUT UP! There is no shut up. There is no shut up.
Dell has said this every 6 months or so for the past.. well, since I can remember. They say it to get better deals from intel. In 2 months you'll have a story saying 'Dell decided to stick with intel after all'.
Malike Bamiyi wanted my assistance.
How many times will the "news" that Dell is "looking at AMD" make the headlines? We all know it'll never actually happen.
Rollins also said they may use AMD if their customers really want it. Yeah right.
Luckily, where I work, we just switched to a supplier who actually offers AMD today, so now we can finally get Opterons. This is the only strategy that will work for companies that want Opteron. Dell will never offer it. Won't happen. AMD processors have been requested for years. They say they listen to their customers, but they really don't.
I think Dell will use nVidia's nForce series of chipsets if they do decide to build machines using AMD CPU's. Also, Dell will probably limit themselves to the Athlon 64 CPU's for their desktop machines (they likely won't support Sempron CPU's initially because currently Sempron doesn't support x86-64 instructions).
So basically what they're saying, is that they asked their customers what they wanted and now they will give them what they wanted... This is exactly the sort of non-sense non-news press release thats designed to get free advertising by pretending to be informative. All Dell are saying is that they might start selling a product if the demand is there, D'UH thats exactly what 1000's of businesses around the world do every day. It would be news if Dell came out and said "actually you know what? we've been using Intel for years and we don't actually have any sort of market research team checking for better products or customer opinion because infact we don't give a shit and we're going to just keep selling whatever crap we feel like even if no-one buys it because thats the sort of chaps we are".
In other news, IBM have announced that they will continue to sell high-performance e-business slutions at competative prices and are currently developing new products based on the current industry trends!
This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
Dell Might do AMD
Yeah, they'll screw 'em all right.
No, everyone's missing it. It's not pressure on Intel, it's pressure on AMD. Dell is saying to AMD, you must, ABSOLUTELY FUCKING MUST, meet our part quota every quarter, no shortchanging us, no sending our parts to IBM, Acer, Toshiba, because we're gonna ship 250,000 units this year, and we're not going to lose our hardwon customers to someone else. So get your shit in gear, and once you prove you can keep the pipeline FLOODED, we'll talk.
Yeah, I've never done anything more with laptops than changeout the drives and ram. I'd called two local shops and neither was willing to work on it. *grumble*
I wasn't sure what the adapter was like on the board, so wasn't sure if it was a matter of soldering on a module or not. If I can find the right screw driver this week, I'll pull this puppy apart and see what's up.
I'm definitely not buying laptops with this kind of connector ever again though. What a dumb, clumsy idea.
Looks like:
// 3 months
while(1)
{
uint8_t intelLoweredPrice = 0;
while(!intelLoweredPrice)
{
uint8_t newPrice = checkIntelPrice();
printf("We might start using AMD\n");
if(newPrice currentPrice)
{
intelLoweredPrices = 1;
currentPrice = newPrice;
}
}
sleep(7776000);
}
They assemble a reliable machine and, as a company, are a dream to work with. If you are a company of reasonable size, ordering and support are prompt and hassle-free. I work for a large leasing company, and since technically it's our cash upfront, we own tens of thousands of Dell PC's and servers. You ought to see the free stuff we get around here.
AMD doesn't have the manufacturing capacity to supply the entire world + Dell. If Dell loses their massive Intel CPU discounts, they lose the bulk of their competitive edge. If they don't offer Opteron servers (especially now that the dual-cores are coming out), they're going to take a nasty hit to their server sales. Until AMD has the capacity to mostly replace Intel, Dell just has to smile and say "Do you want HypeThreading with that?" and hope people keep buying. It helps that most people are too clueless to know what they're missing, plus even a Celeron is enough to "surf the Information Superhighway, d00dz!"
Next year, when AMD's new 65nm fab is up and running and Charter (and IBM?) start fabbing AMD CPUs too, THEN things will get interesting.
Ouch non were willing to do it .. hm have you contacted gateway i would imagine they would charge you a premium though..
? you should check with gateway as the 30 day gaurentee is void if the part was faulty (the metal).. though that may require some pushing and angry threats of a lawyer
The only things certain in war are Propaganda and Death. You can never be sure which is which though
Eat that Intel! Your chips are shitty assed and worthless!! Pentium 4 with 64 bit? What a fucking crock! You assholes should have taken the Alpha technology you stole from DEC and just made Itaniums for consumer level use. Fuck you I hope your company dies a horrible fiancial death. You guys are antiquated as hell. AMD is the shit! They have a cool and efficient design and made it to market with 64 bit support well before you dillholes. AMD + Linux is taking oer the world. First the server rooms and next embedded devices.
"We are still looking at AMD; they have fairly good technology," said Rollins.
He went on to say that "Dell excels to use as many fairly good components as possible. Dell strives for mediocre computers, and that can only be done by using adequate, middling componentry sourced from the most average manufactures in the world"
Mr. Rollins went on to attack other vendors. "IBM and Apple, well, they think they produce pretty good products too. But the public knows better - excellent design, manufacturing, componentry, and software does not make for a pretty good product. That's why Dell is the market leader".
Many consumers agree. In recent reports, Dell consistently hits the "adequate" mark in customer satisfaction. "We don't want our customers to think we're better than anyone else - people are put off by that kind of talk. It's kind of like the Bush/Kerry campaigns. We have to work very hard to be average in this business."
Dell is now considering AMD, but Dell still has some concern that AMD processors may not be average enough. Rollins says that Dell looked at AMD's products a few years back, and "they kicked some butt. But that's not the Dell way. We're hoping that now their products are getting a little dull - but only some fairly standard analysis will tell. We hope that they'll hit our mark, more or less."
In my opinion, dell has other things to worry about than switching processors. Making computers that are more upgrade friendly would be nice start (buying a pc without AGP = suck)
We want Linux desktops too. Can you take care of that for us pls? kthx.
Tired of FB/Google censorship? Visit UNCENSORED!
Yep, more smoke out the ass for Dell.
It's gotten so thick that Dell can't see the demand for AMD machines.
On top of this, the relatively small investment in an AMD crew in Dell development would be well worth the long term leverage it will give them over Intel. This bluffing for short term leverage will eventually bite them in the ASS. Should the AMD ship start sinking Intel will OWN Dell.
In the Home PC market, most people shopping at Dell in the first place will have difficulty understanding that a Pentium is not the only processor in the world & when offered a choice between Intel & AMD they will go intel because they haven't heard or trust this "new fandangled processor brand"
Unless AMD suddenly went on a massive advertising campaign, got Dell to fully support them publicly & let the average joe user know about it, Dell aint going to get too many requests for the latest AMD processor.
Dell has threatened to do this before. In the past, it may have been posturing to get a better deal from Intel. This time it may be more realistic because of only 1 factor. The Opteron. Intel's Itanium has lost major support from Windows, IBM, and other players. The Opteron is getting all the attention. Maybe Intel will build something to match it in the future. However, if Dell wants to build a 64-bit server for their customers, the only game right now is AMD.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
"Dell has said they may do ____ if the customers really want it."
My world is shattered.
Did you ever notice that *nix doesn't even cover Linux?
I read about 2-3 weeks ago that Dell had made the committment to use AMD. Maybe the mention was wrong. If right, is this Dell's way of backing out but keeping the door open. It seems Dell is pushing Intel's buttons a bit. The last thing in the world I can imagine Intel wanting is THE major PC maker to start using AMD-anything. Intel, scrambling???
--- Old Time NeXThead
As others have pointed out, the issue MUST be a matter of price. There's certainly little-to-no valid technological reason for Dell not to offer AMD anymore. We're not talking slightly incompatible CPUs that need instruction-translators.
Having said that, I still have to let customers know that it's okay to get off the Intel teat when thinking about a new computer. People like that brand recognition. If Dell starts pushing AMD, they'll have to go through some customer-training on what a AMD is and why it's just as good as Intel. That will piss off Intel, no doubt.
Otherwise, what? Just stick it in a catalog? People won't buy it. The fact it's not an Intel will be major turn-off.
Dell's kind of in a Damned-If-You-Do/Don't situation here.
I would love to see Dell push AMDs on the lower-cost systems and stick to Intel for higher-priced systems designed for certain applications. I realize that AMD can fulfill both roles, but this might be a good way to introduce the line to customers. Besides, I'd take a Sempron over a Celery right now.
If Nalgene water bottles are outlawed, only outlaws will have Nalgene water bottles.
To get a sweeter deal with Intel.
This has been happening since the days of the P3 shortage. Dell wraps itself around Intel's cock and gets preferrential treatment.
That is what is happening here.
Corporatism != Free Market
hint you need brain to use them
It might be a sentence if you add a comma. Then it becomes a command: "RIAA, set up bittorent server!"
However, without it, it is grammatically incorrect due to the missing "S" after "set". It does not look good without it. "RIAA sets up...." is much better.
AMD's technology is on par with Intel. It's their marketing that falls short.
I think AMD's marketing is pretty smart. As all of the pro-AMD postings on this forum suggest, AMD has a rabid following among enthusiasts, gamers, hobbiests, etc. By targeting this group AMD has smartly sown the seeds of further success. Most AMD home users have jobs. Eventually the good experience they've had with the processor at home will influence the equipment purchases of their employers.
an ill wind that blows no good
Gateway has never responded to my contacts. I do, however, continue to get plenty of email spam from them, wanting to sell me the latest greatest laptops. Go figure!
Ditto.
/proc/cpuinfo
$ uptime
16:53:36 up 91 days, 22:16, 5 users, load average: 0.90, 0.43, 0.56
$ cat
processor : 0
vendor_id : AuthenticAMD
cpu family : 6
model : 10
model name : AMD Athlon(TM) XP 3000+
My main desktop computer, running rock stable since April 2003, not a single hitch since. Only gets rebooted for kernel upgrades.
I think the grandparent problem was more of an OS thing than a hardware issue.
Dell pulls this stunt every year. They simple use it as a way to scare Intel in giving them better pricing on CPU's. Dell will never support AMD. Ever. So long as Intel succombs to their threats every time, Dell will stay an Intel only house.
...[A]ny decision to make AMD its second supplier of microprocessor chips, which function as the brains of PCs, would be complicated by the sweeping changes required for related components inside Dell PCs.
On a side note, Mr Rollins made a statement, paraphrased as such:
WTF? What sweeping changes? You can use the same PSU, video cards, RAM, NICs, HDDs and software. The only change you're making is the motherboard. Which is mooted by the fact Intel requires mobo changes every so often thanks to its unreliance on one socket format. It's really becoming no news at all when Dell touts they may use AMD chips at some point. It's never happened and the changes of it happening anytime soon are nil.
SYSOP ('sih-sop) n.: the guy laughing at your typing.
1: Sell faulty products with crappy gaurentee then hide
2: advertise newer laptops after origional expires
3: profit
4: (the reason gateway keeps going bankrupt) Customers get pissed off and move elsewhere
The only things certain in war are Propaganda and Death. You can never be sure which is which though
Could you give a hint to an international computer provider that is as good as Dell was in the old days?
This thread is funny. There are so many fatalistic people out there saing "If Dell doesn't supply AMD then they're missing the boat." Well Dell owns the freakin' boat folks, it's AMD that's missing it. The performance difference is minimal, and the price/performance delta is non-existent. Price out a Dell Intel server and price-compare it to an HP Opteron. Then benchmark it. The Dell gets higher marks. Don't believe me? Look anywhere and start at http://www.tpc.org or search for MMB benchmarks.
There are always customers that a Dell doesn't suit but frankly, if Dell doesn't add AMD to its lineup then the grass will still grow, the flowers will still bloom and the sun will continue to rise.
Those that keep saying "Dell doesn't get it" well, don't get it. Dell won't add AMD to its lineup anytime soon. There is very little benefit to a corporation to buy AMD. Remember folks, it's not about who can run Doom 3 fastest -- it's about who can offer a manageable computer with a long, stable, controlled, predictable lifecycle. And since business represents 80% of Dell's sales, well, they get 80% of the vote.
Dear Intel, The money that you've gave us ran out. I need more to complete my mansion, that and other vices. Did I say vices I mean for the betterment of both Dell and Intel... Please understand that we are #1 and last I heard AMD has these awesome processors that would rock your world. Although this is rumored and with the proper... "convincing" I might retract this and say I was just drunk that time. So anyway, I'm sure news are getting around. AMD's stock would probably be rising now, yours might go down a bit. Not to mention, AMD fans probably jumping up and down that it's hard not to notice them. I heard they were an influencial lot. Hey, guess what? I have to go... You know my bank account. I'll be waiting for your deposit... err.. response! BTW I have this AMD PC made just recently. All I can say is WOW! With Love, Kevin
What do you work for dell. First of all there laptops crap out after two years of hard use, the IBMs we used to have worked until they were so old they had to be decommissioned. How about the laptop plug recall, that was a friggen headache, a lot of work for the IT department. Or how about a design flaw in their small form factor optiplex that makes it cook itself. Motherboard failures, lots of cheap garbage on even expensive cad machines. Fan failures, Dell sells because it is cheap and CIO don't know better. Some day dell will get just what it deserves a kick in the ass.
I agree with that. Intel has been a solid supplier for a decade to Dell. AMD does not have such guarantees.
Dell is evaluating AMD products for their server lines, not pc's. The reason this seems a likely move is that AMD is releasing dual-core opterons on the 21st, the day of Intel's conference call. Intel hasn't roadmapped dual-core server chips for at least six months. Because of lower power consumption, savings on software licensing, and increased performance/footprint, AMD Opteron dual-core processors will definitely be advantageous to server customers. Whether or not those customers are brighter than "the average dell customer"...well, yeah.
"There are some people that if they don't know, you can't tell them." ~ Louis Armstrong
Who really cares what Dell does. The servers they sell are mostly dual proc file servers or sql servers. They are not even pushing a 1GHz Intel chip. This is why most windows admins refuse to give system stats on boxes. They are just sitting at idle. Now running Linux / Uinx / Java for a large ecommerce sight you need those cycles and memory management capabilities to reduce grabage collect times.
So get a clue, real admins maximize the power of a box and buy Opterons. windows flunkies just buy another box and hide in their GUI admin interfaces as it sits idle.
Look at the published % margins of Intel and AMD and realize that this is much greater gap than you would get simply from Intel's ability ot command a price premium -compared to AMD, Intel's manufacturing costs per die are LESS, so it's not "so expensive".
/.ers are infuriated that the stock market doesn't reward AMD stock price like that of Intel stock price, but if they understood that share value is determined by the ability to make money, not just pump out cool stuff, they'd understand. Making money means keeping your cost-to-selling-price ratio healthy and AMD doesn't manufacture at lowest price and doesn't sell for a premium price.
Say what you want about AMD's microprocessor design prowess, they are definately not in Intel's league in terms of wafer yield and other areas of manufacturing prowess that dictate cost to produce.
Many clueless
(BTW, please don't assume this represents some kind of consumer-friendly behaviour for AMD - if they could charge a big premium over Intel's product, they would in a heartbeat. And of course, the poster that said this is a price negotiation tool on Dell's part is correct)
In my experience most people prefer the nforce line to the SiS/Via chipsets.
In fact, from reviews nVidia's nForce4 for Intel CPUs out performs Intel chipsets.
It is purely a strategy to further pressure Intel to donate processors to em
I work @ D*LL and there is no roadmap for AMD processor in our product series for the rest of 2005
It shows a near 50/50 share in Intel and AMD systems. No mater how computer illiterate, the general consensus between gamers is the AMD64 is on top. Armed with this knowledge, gamers looking to replace their aging PC might turn to Dell only to be disappointed and look elsewhere.
Dude, compatibility with "cheapo memory" is NOT what you ever want!
The fact that you've been seeing single bit errors is a sign you should be using ECC memory instead of cheapo Walmart RAM.
How many of your video captures have errant pixels or, worse, errant resultant AVI/MPEG files because your RAM had a single bit error and you just didn't know it? How can you ever tell without parity? How can you ever correct it without ECC?
was over a week ago. Can we quit with the fake articles already?
The Chronic *WHAT* les of Narnia!
Probably the same thing Walmart does. No matter what your prices are, come next year they will want it lowered.
I doubt Dell will add AMD to their choices. They leverege their prices by using one supplier. If AMD takes sales from Intel, Intel will not give Dell as good a price.
I know some will be ticked off. But for the poor, you can't do better than a Dell. $250 will get you a P4 2.4+ghz system with a 80 gig hard drive and 256 megs. Go on the right day, and they might be offering double RAM or double hard drives for the same price. I even saw it fall to $220 once, but that is rare. Just click on small buisness, not residential. And add your own OS, linux or whatever. Only downside is there is no video card, but 64 and some 128 meg video cards are dirt cheap.
You can't get a good machine off ebay used for the price of a new dell.
Rosco: "If brains were gunpowder, Enos couldn't blow his nose."
Marketing got them where they are, and they still have the lowest prices. MBA programs should study their sucess, they are doing something right.
Rosco: "If brains were gunpowder, Enos couldn't blow his nose."
Can't we call this a duplicated thread? I mean, with the number of times we heard that... Let me guess, we will see a new post in a couple of days (the time for Intel to call Dell) telling that "Dell do not need AMD technology blah blah blah".
No big news here.
I wish Dell would die not to hear this anymore.
I guess there was a possibility of delay in the delivery of near-future Intel technology, such as dual core processors or some other and this is a way of sending a warning message to Intel for avoiding the delays. This has happened several times before. I do not think it is only about getting special discounts from Intel for exclusive use of Intel processors for Dell. The efficiency and consequently cost is significantly lower if there is a single platform to deal with. However the disadvantage is the possibility of competition with other vendors that carry AMD products, if there is a delay in the delivery of corresponding Intel technology, there goes the market share.
My personal experience with integration of non-Intel server systems has been more problematic. For example, even with Intel Xeon processors, once choosing a Serverworks chipset for a little better performance had become such a big headache related to IDE drivers in Linux with some brands of high capacity harddisks. If everything is made by Intel, including chipset, ethernet, IDE, processor, etc, integration has always been much smoother for similar price/performance ratio.
Actually, you should buy a computer with dollar bills instead of pennies, next time.
If I can help it, all my next computers will have ECC RAM, and generally decent components all-around. Too many people get burned by bad RAM (likely to be your problem) or fragile components that just make life a PITA.
-- Microsoft is the most expensive commodity operating system and office suite vendor in the marketplace.
Intel has more plants to amortise their R&D costs of production and product production over. The economies of scale are the major difference in margin between the two. Yields are very very close. Developing a new fab process, developing a new processor are very expensive propositions. If making 10x the processors on the process and on the design means that the development cost per unit is 1/10th.
that Dell may go with AMID, especially since there is a motherboard that supports both the P4 and the Athlon64 939 processors. That will allow Dell to stick primarily with Intel, at the same time they will also be able to build machines with an Athlon64 processor with little or no additional cost to them, since it uses the same motherboard.
Here is a post that an AC wrote about this.
get rid of the "Windows Tax". You can order a dell server w/o an operating system, but not a desktop.
1-800-WWW-DELL
>> AMD chips are very stable
Have you tried using > 4GB on your AMD64 ? If you are like me, you get daily crashes. Why ?
Go read the April 7 slashdot posting here.
http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=127
AMD64 systems have proplems with fully populated DIMMS. Crap like this is unacceptable to corporations purchasing 1000's of boxes. It is also unacceptable to DELL. Every customer problem cost DELL money.
Dell pulls this stunt every now and then to scare Intel into sweetening their deal a little better. Intel will offer Dell a slightly lower price (or something appealing) if Dell stops yammering about AMD, and Dell will put it's AMD plans back on the shelf for a year or two.
They'll probably also say something along the lines of "we've decided we'll wait a little longer for AMDs technology to mature." I think we all have seen this happen several times before.
For Video, You probably have all your memory slots full? I had a very similar problem with video editting. The problem goes away if I take out a stick of memory.
Go read this article posted on slashdot April 7
http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=127
AMD systems have problems if all of the memory slots are filled.
Another thing to keep in mind, last year at this time, the x86 server market looked like this:
1. HP
2. Dell
3. IBM
Last I heard:
1. HP
2. IBM
3. Dell
In other words, for the first time in a long while, Dell's server marketshare has slipped in a rather significant milestone.
What do HP and IBM have in common in x86 land? AMD offerings. Was this the sole cause of the slip? Probably not, but it is a factor. If Dell's analysis shows that AMD's role in this market shift is significant, it may be more serious about it.
Of course, Intel will probably come through with some incredible offer for Dell, but those incentives are going to have to be better and better if AMD gives success to HP and IBM in marketshare.
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
In other news, Sun's Schwartz has announced they are considering open-sourcing java.
Hey, Dell...
Put up or shut up.
Number of plants has no effect on how much R&D a company can amortize... (I am an accountant.)
don't assume this represents some kind of consumer-friendly behaviour for AMD
:)
You're mistaking the cause for the effect. Who cares WHY they've got a customer-freindly behaviour, they do.
It's been a long time.
It's been my experience that the really blockbuster stocks over the long term have been companies you'd buy dog food from. I'd buy from AMD, Intel not so much. The problem with being focused on the short term quarter-by-quarter profit reports is that you're often ignoring looming Enron-style financial collapses two quarters down the line. The great companies of today are very rarely the great companies of tomorrow.
Rumor has it the Mighty M has finally allowed AMD servers into their datacenters. Think, if one of your biggest customers is buying HP's for the 4 memory controllers (4 proc's), Dell may finally, FINALLY get it together. Too bad, I've already moved my clients to other vendors anyway.
This Dell using AMD thing is so predictable and the market always acts as though they've never heard it. So... My new plan to become flithy rich goes:
1. Buy AMD stock when it's low.
2. Wait for Dell to mention AMD.
3. Speculators get excited and drives price up.
4. Dump AMD stock.
5. Wait for Dell to reconfirm their Intel only strategy.
6. Price falls.
7. Profit!
8. Repeat as needed.
EvilCON - Made Famous by
Dell has screwed over AMD so many times that this has become an industry joke. Dell will NEVER use AMD products as long as Intel continues to make products that are even somewhat remotely competitive with AMD products. If AMD hasn't figured that out by now, then they would be establishing new metrics for gullibility. Con men probably use an 'AMD 0-10 scale' to define how big a sucker their target is as in 'That guy's an AMD 10' when they spot a guy just getting off of the turnip truck. Frevvinsake, AMD, wise up!
Due to financial difficulties, the light at the end of the tunnel has been turned off.
Or perhaps you used crappy RAM or power supplies?
Dell might do AMD's mom too.
After all, these are the people who brought you stories of Nazism inside Intel (looks like they pulled that article) then accused Anandtech of getting paid to write favorable reviews. Now that's a news source I can trust.
...quote of article...
Sarcastic comment. Reference to other frequent slashdot subjects. Bad joke.
Geeky closing line.
This had got to be the dozen'th time ive heard this. Dell is likely just trying to get intels attention as to aquire better pricing, lisencing or products. In any event Dell said "if their customers demand it". I ask, how are dell customers gonna demand it, dell customers usually cant even get through for tech support let alone calling to make casual recommendations. Besides most dell customers arnt technie enough to even understand what a processor is let alone what company produces it.
I still have people come in and demand the whole tower is a modem. people just dont get it, and if this user friendly, point and click world we live in is too confusing, they never will.
Mike
I heart the RIAA & MPAA, im sure its mutual...
AMD CPU's what?
AMD systems are finicky about the memory.
Stable systems is one area that Intel is superior.
yeah mine did that too... craziest thing, it would just turn off when playing games in the middle of all the action. VERY annoying. So i took the processor, along with the box, instruction manual and packets of some "thermal paste" (whatever that is) and chucked them all out the window. Im never buying another AMD, no matter how much cheaper and faster it is than Intel Pentium 4 (with patented superior extreme hyperthreading technology)
Mike
I heart the RIAA & MPAA, im sure its mutual...
Every year Dell talks about how advanced the AMD chips are and how they may switch and then just as suddenly Dell announces that they are staying with Intel after the negociating the contract.
I suppose a Viper is a sorta quick car. (Just using that as an analogy to AMD's cheaper CPU's being fast, just in case people didn't get it.)
-- Liberalism is a mental disorder.
If all that is true then explain this to me.
AMD sells processors for less then intel even though intel processors cost less to make right?
So why isn't dell selling machines with AMD processors in them so they can sell them cheaper? Why do they have to try and play this game to try get intel chips cheaper? Is there a law that says you can only sell computers with one companies chips in them?
It sounds to me like somewhere in this process capitalism derailed.
evil is as evil does
If this AMD/Intel schism lowers prices further, kudos to it, I could use another 5 computers for my cluster :)
Mens et Manus
Dell gets a big discount from Intel and gets the advertising kick back as well. Dell doesn't give a shit what they sell to the customer - as long as their bottom line looks good. They're never gonna change to AMD - AMD won't pay them the kickback.
Just because a few slashdotters say AMD kicks Intels ass does not make it so. These folks are in their Dorm room or in the parents basement and they read a few benchmarks. In the real world, other issue are more important. Costs, manufacting, volume, quality, support, etc...
1. AMD cannot supply the volume DELL requires. (AMD would need to double their capacity just to supply all of DELL's volume.)
2. AMD cannot supply the complete systems Intel does. DELL does not have RnD. Intel supplys complete proc, chipset, motherboard, drives, bios, etc.
3. AMD cannot supply the quality DELL requires. All AMD64 systems have issues when all DIMM slots are used. DELL's would be getting class action law suits if they shipped millions of that crap.
4. AMD cannot touch Centrino for performance and power. Mobile is the fastest gowing segment. This year Mobile will ship more than desktops. DELL has picked the best supplier for the fastest growing market segment.
"We are still looking at AMD; they have fairly good technology," said Rollins.
Always amusing to see "AMD totally rox0rs!1!" in utterly-bought corporate-tool speak.
Of course we'll know Intel's toast if he subsequently pulls out the E-word: "We're excited to be working with AMD technology."
We live, as we dream -- alone....
Dude, compatibility with "cheapo memory" is NOT what you ever want! The fact that you've been seeing single bit errors is a sign you should be using ECC memory instead of cheapo Walmart RAM.
ECC =! quality
Part of the reason I went with VIA for my 1700xp system, is the fact that it would take ECC registered memory. I.E. old hand me down server memory which should meet with even your high quality requirements.
Compatibility with "cheapo memory" just means comptable with what is currently in mass production.
There is no sanctuary. There is no sanctuary. SHUT UP! There is no shut up. There is no shut up.
"1. AMD cannot supply the volume DELL requires. (AMD would need to double their capacity just to supply all of DELL's volume.)"
So what? Why not sell as many as you can?
"2. AMD cannot supply the complete systems Intel does. DELL does not have RnD. Intel supplys complete proc, chipset, motherboard, drives, bios, etc."
Again so what? As long as you can put together a sysytem what's the big deal?
You seem to be saying that Dell buys an entire motherboard/CPU combination from intel. Is that really true?
"3. AMD cannot supply the quality DELL requires. All AMD64 systems have issues when all DIMM slots are used. DELL's would be getting class action law suits if they shipped millions of that crap."
On this I call bullshit.
"4. AMD cannot touch Centrino for performance and power. Mobile is the fastest gowing segment. This year Mobile will ship more than desktops. DELL has picked the best supplier for the fastest growing market segment."
You seem to be under some sort of an impression that Dell is only allowed to sell processors from one manufacturer. I don't know where you think somebody passed that law but it's not true. If it's true that intel makes better processors for laptops then dell can sell intel laptops. They can also sell intel desktops AND sell AMD desktops too.
Why would they not sell something a segment of the market wants especially if it costs less?
'
evil is as evil does
And it all falls through.
Dell would never do it as long as Intel is throwing up money for grabs; they're just playing Jealous Wife Intel.
Let's also remember that AMD isn't as cheap as it used to be. Their processors rival Intel's in pricing. It will come down to whether or not the consumers trust AMD or not. Intel has always built a solid chipset for each platform, forcing each IP sharing partner to follow to the dot. AMD has not, and consequently, we had horrible third-party chipsets from some, let's leave un-named companies. Consumers on a whole only know Intel. AMD to them seems like a kind of bastard cousin sitting in the corner. We can thank the non-standardized chipsets and lack of mass marketing for that.
Intel ultimately has more marketing power, and more discounts to give Dell than AMD does. And theoretically, even *IF* Dell goes with AMD, they will also need to pressure the industry to make a good, stable IGP chipset for the Athlon64. The VIA S3 Unichrome and SiS 256 IGP solutions I've worked with are a bit less than satisfactory. That would force the possibility of a discrete video card, which will add $30-50 to the price in an industry where profit margins are razor thin. One good thing though, is that an Athlon64 will work great even with single channel memory (Dell hobbles their low-end machines SOO horribly).
Oh, and did I mention that the vast majority of consumers are idiots and will only be swayed by Intel and the Pentium namesake? They are only concerned with: 1./ Is it cheap? 2./ Does it work? They DON'T CARE as long as it works! Even if it's marginal!! I'm not by any means a fanboy (I've loved the Intel P6 in the past, and continue to love it's Pentium M grandchild), but this is a small lot of nerds asking huge Dell to do their bidding! PFFT.
Stop taking up slashdot space with this nonsense. Please! This has become an annoyance. Do you work for AMD?
In a nut shell, this is not a big story, this is something that repeats every 3 to 6 months. Is someone working under AMD's till hired to post this crap every so often?
Geeze, STOP ALLREADY!!!!!!
I presume you refer to Athlon64, using unbuffered non-ECC RAM. This is one thing I believe is being addressed in the new Venus cores (better memory controller/compatibility with DIMMs). Even so, worst case you run the memory at DDR333 instead of DDR400, and stability should be okay, at the loss of some performance. (Most boards today seem to work fine at DDR400 if all the DIMMs are SINGLE sided).
Now, in the Opteron market, where you are using buffered ECC DIMMs, we have machines with 8, 16 and 32GB of RAM and not one problem whatsoever.
Oh yeah, and Dell lost our contract for that server because they wouldn't sell us Opterons (they wanted to sell us Xeon-EM64s).
Venus core should read Venice core. Oops.
Either (extremely) subtle sarcasm, or insanity. You decide!
I used up all my sick days, so I'm calling in dead.
UHm yeah if all that you said were true then why in any sane mind would dell be saying they were considering selling amd amchines?
If it's just to get a better price from intel knowing amd can't meet their volume im sure intel would already know this and know that their just blowing smoke out their %^$$%$@'s and tell them to go right ahead.
Dell doesn't get their motherboards from intel they have their own sources one's which will make boards to fit in dell cases just like HP and compaq have.
As for amd64 systems having issues when all the dimm slots are used this is utter crap! I have all my slots filled out with dimms and have no issues whatsoever.
You're also im guessing under some misguided impression that since dell is selling intel machines they can't sell amd machines and thats a bunch of garbage. Other pc makers in the past have sold amd and intel machines at the same time in the same stores right beside each other so unless Dell signed a pecific contract with intel to only sell intel machines (they would be complete fools if they had) their is nothing to prevent them from selling AMD machines as well.
You utterly fail to make any kind of convincing argument and trying to prop up your case with false claims and FUD does nothing to advance your argument.
And BTW im neither in a dorm nor a parents basement and i certainly haven't based my buying decisions on some benchmarks. I live in the real world and use my pc's in the real world and when i decided to buy pc's for the family i considered intel which i have used and amd which i have also used. After careful consideration and seeing as intel dind't have a 64 bit chip and indeed at the time just scraped their 64 bit chip for the desktop their were working on because they delayed to long and didn't get one ready in time for windowsxp64 to be coded to work with it. Which forced them to go another route for a 64 bit chip and get amd's extensions to get a 64 bit chip that would even run on windows 64, and after trying out this athlon 64 system and seeing how well it was working in the real world i decided to get 4 AMD athlon 64's for the family. I wouldn't be spending this much money just based off of some benchmarks or other non realworld claims but from looking carefully at the market the products comparing the two for what i wanted to do and then trying out a test system with the day to day programs and things that i and the rest of the family will be useing them for.
And just to let you know i also have this system being used as a HTPC with 3 tuner cards 2 wintv250's and a HDTV tuner in it running under Sagetv and have had it recording up to 3 seperate programs at once while unreal 2k4 was being played on it without looseing a recording or having any frames get dropped or slowingdown the gameplay. Hows that for real world!
The fact that you've been seeing single bit errors is a sign you should be using ECC memory instead of cheapo Walmart RAM.
What about Walmart ECC memory?
You are not correct sir!
Dell has said the same thing last year and the year before that only to change their minds later. This year however they have said it twice which is a bit unusual for them.
So i took the processor, along with the box, instruction manual and packets of some "thermal paste" (whatever that is) and chucked them all out the window
You must be the guy who dropped an retail box edition AMD 1700XP+ on my head. In all fairness to your claim I have found that AMD fans clog up rather quickly. Mine clogged in under 6 months. I've actually had similar luck with intel's solution.
If you have an AMD fan it's highly reccomended that you upgrade... This is what I use to adapt 80mm fans to the AMD sync. Because AMD uses machine screws there is no chance of it falling off, the airflow is higher and the noise lower.
There is no sanctuary. There is no sanctuary. SHUT UP! There is no shut up. There is no shut up.
Your Mileage May Vary.
Perl - $Just @when->$you ${thought} s/yn/tax/ &couldn\'t %get $worse;
"There is no such law, but it is quite likely that Dell has signed a contract with Intel to exclusively purchase and sell Intel processors only in exchange for preferential pricing."
Aah and so my comment about capitalism being derailed in this case.
I think the DOJ should look into this, it sure sounds like manipulation of the market to me.
evil is as evil does
^^^^^
You left these carriage returns in front of my house. Please claim them.
It would be cool if it didn't suck.
Bow-chicka-chicka-bow-bow
666-607: 6th floor apartment of the beast
Personally I had an AMD Thunderbird back in the day, and that little chip was dropped on the tile floor, and consistantly ran hot, like aroud 140 degrees, and never skipped a beat. In fact, my friends now own that machine and it has yet to foul up on them. Adn teh thing still runs hot. But I made the mistake of falling for Intel's higher speed and got one. Not really any issues with it, but didnt see that much improvement. But then I started reading the reviews.. and when a co-worker needed a PC, I sold him my Intel and I got an AMD64 3500+ 939 socket with NVidia 3. Personally I dont look back.. not one issue at all. And fast... much faster than my P4 2.8Ghz. Now I run exclusively AMD systems and build only those for people. I work for one guy that is Intel only doing multimedia, despite the benchmarks, but thats okay. My computer is an AMD64 :)
The promise comes from none other than CEO Kevin Rollins, and is probably just another indication that Dell is twisting and turning like a twisty turny thing with the mighty Intel or is hanging out for a better deal with AMD.
Who in their right mind would write that?
I was just making the point that if you want a non-Intel processor (and perhaps you have good reason, like the need to evaluate 64 bit apps?) you have plenty of choice. Big as Dell is, it is not a monopoly. I've bought Dells over the years (starting with a 12.5MHz 286 with a VGA screen, which was bleeding edge when it finally arrived) and we have a Dell in our test server rack, along with Proliants, an odd 32-bit AMD, P4s and P3s. Our employee fleet includes notebooks from Dell, HP and Acer. I would be astonished if anyone ever got sacked for buying any of these; they are all good solid machines. Bottom line: whether or not Dell buys AMD cpus doesn't seem to matter very much.
Panurge has posted for the last time. Thanks for the positive moderations.
Like a thousand times before, it's just PR plain and simple.. whenever the chips fall Intel firmly reminds them the price cuts they are getting and how they might not be feasible if the quantities they are buying decrease (I.E. if they start using AMD processors).
Dell sold it's soul to Intel in order to have the most competitive prices on the reseller Intel market, now they realize how costly it will be to get that soul back (by giving customers what they want E.G. AMD cpus...).
because dell and intel are zionist companies.
amd is not.
they want to only do business with companies that are of the same ilk.
this bullshit about "maybe amd" is so they have a "valid" excuse when the authorities demand intel and dell stop 69'ing i.e. stop practicing anti-competitive behavior.
intel is an even bigger monopolist than microsoft.
japan just busted intel (admittedly it wasn't nearly in proportion to their criminal activities but better than nothing)
amd makes better products and they don't raze palestinian villages in order to build chip fabs to do it.
vote with your wallet as they say.
holy crap... i just bought one of those yesterday, in hopes of cooling the system and in turn reducing noise (besides 60mm make a ton of noise anyway)... what luck to know its worth getting, i wasnt sure. Mike i got it at comp usa... where to my shock... the price was reasonable.
Mike
I heart the RIAA & MPAA, im sure its mutual...
(besides 60mm make a ton of noise anyway)... what luck to know its worth getting, i wasnt sure. Mike i got it at comp usa
Fair warning... make sure you check the CFM of what you have vs what you are getting. I just tested a 80mm 25CFM @ 2000rpm and found to run 10C hotter than 70mm fan 33.8CFM @ 4200rpm. 2000rpm may be cool for my 1700xp but barely adquate for my 2800xp. About 55C at no load.
There is no sanctuary. There is no sanctuary. SHUT UP! There is no shut up. There is no shut up.
Dell has to change its attitude. They have to give the custormers what they want ?
If I am AMD user and want to get a Dell AMD I must get it. Otherwise users please BOYCOTT DELL.