Did anyone really think that either of these systems would be 10 times a spowerful, let alone 20? If you did you need a visit from the reality fairy. Now, who in the fsck thinks that the PS3 GPU is going to be better than the 7800??? surely only the same delusional ones who believed the former too.
Come on, this is consumer hardware the 7800 alone would be about the same cost as the entire PS3 and that isn't even at retail price. Consoles use cut down specialized processors, and yes they can be BASED on an existing product but they rarely use any OTS hardware due to cost.
It is no surprise to me that the PS3 will be less powerful than the 7800, I figured it all along. News Flash! When will people learn. Gamers can be some of the most stupid and gullible folks on Earth. If I touch a burning candle once I generally won't be having a second go at it. But gamers get fed the same B.S. every couple years and eat it up, get their hopes up, and then get let down when it was all hype. EVERY FREAKIN TIME!
Your "loyalty" means nothing to any of these companies except easy money and a sure sale. Get a freakin clue people, when will folks wake up? The xbox 360, the PS3, and the Revolution will be basically the same power-wise, they will all have similar features but implemented slightly differently, and each have their own strengths and weaknesses. REALITY FOLKS, REALITY. Please come back to it.
be as bummed that after $350 and playing Lumines that there is little else to do with your PSP except to hack it to play old gameboy/NES titles or browse the web wirelessly on a tiny screen and complete with "out of memory" errors! Yay! whatever.
Simply THE WORST excuse for an actress was plain to see in Alone in the Dark. I never have been so amazed at poor acting that made it into a big budget film. Thank God even Uwe had the stones to say it was one of the worst performances ever in his interview. I just can't agree with him on his skills or the "quality" of his movies.
Alone in the Dark was abysmal, yet he continually tries to stick up fo rit and claim it was poorly promoted. Sorry, promotion was the least of your concerns here.
He is unappologetic and filled with excuses for his work. I found the interview to be a wash and did nothing in my eyes to help his case.
Yeah that dude has got to be one of the worst scourges of/. in all my years. Having run two news sites in my past I know the job, and 'ol Zonk wouldn't have lasted two days with me.
I hope his children are born with one testicle, including the females.
I really wish I understood where you seem to thing the Revolution will be multi-core. By all accounts so far it will not be.
Also your asumptions about art and difficulties outside of programming are false. Take a look at the mandate from MS. Where all games have to be created in HD, 4xAA, and run at no less than 60fps AT ALL TIMES. This is a requirement to even produce for the 360. I'm not sure if you are aware but barely any games produced to date meet these standards, let alone an entirely new architecture, and the rest of the concerns such as debugging and tweaking. These all may not seem like much to you, but to developers this is unneeded added cost and time not to mention pretty much screwing ports and multi-console releases.
The Revolution claims to be twice as powerful as current gen consoles. The 360 and PS3 have turned out to be... about twice as powerful as current gen systems. So your assumption that it will be so slow are completely unfounded.
Similarly your idea that small developers are going to take to Xbox Live is way off base. The costs associated with this type of development are far outside the scope that Nintendo is talking about. It's apples and oranges.
Factor 5 and about 5 or 6 other developers have also came out and publicly made similar claims. Developers goals are to get their game on as many systems as possible, hell handhelds, PDAs and cell phones are even desired. The fact that they are having to choose a side because of development costs and difficulties IS A BAD THING. It's bad for gamers, it's bad for the industry, and it's bad for the developer. No one wins here, not even Sony or MS in the long run because gamers will buy their console based on a few exclusives instead of the overall leader.
I could go on and on, you simply don't see things from a realistic standpoint. I would simply like to end this debate by saying, keep an eye on how things actually turn out and remember how right you thought you were. I guess, myself, Gabe Newell (of valve), Factor 5 (who also did rogue squadron if you forgot conveiniently), and numerous others must all be crazy to think as we do... but maybe not.
Your reply shows that you have never done console development or worked in this industry. Every console release is generally met with some grumbling about some feature or other. This is normal and expected. The amount of grumbling this round is to a magnitude never before seen. And the thing is that it is not the programmers complaining the loudest. Everyone is affected by these new systems. Budgets, Time constraints, debugging, art, optimization, and programmers. These are all massive concerns and are not similar to anything ever before.
This jump in costs is exponential, and pushes most dev's out of contention to even begin to develop for these systems. They are turning away and not playing along. What is happening is that developers are having to pick ONE console and only develop for it. Factor 5 was one of the first to make this move. Multiple cores is one thing, 7 non-standard semi-cores that are specialized and not optimized for any particular use is another. Again you just don't understand what the reality is of these systems.
The Revolution is different, again, no matter which company you like you cannot deny the differences. The system is built on almost identical hardware to the GC, just faster. The GC dev tools were fantastic! ask any developer, they were phenominal. Sony's were and are again not so hot overall. MS is right in the middle. This is not opinion it is fact, again, irregardless of where your loyalties lie.
Nintendo has made a specific point to aim for smaller developers (even indie/individuals) because they know that the other players have painted themselves into a corner costwise and have pushed a lot of small-mid sized devel's away. They will regain a large number of third-party devels. Personally I know of three who had produced for PS2 and are not renewing licensing agreements in favor of the Revolution NO MATTER what their final licensing looks like. These are big money companies with a good bit of clout, to make a unknown comitment like that in any business is a pretty bold statement. And one Nintendo is well aware of at this point and will do everything in their power to gain.
The Nintendo development tools, costs, and licensing will indeed be much lower than the others. How much so, no one knows yet. But they are commited to this new angle, and to think they won't nail it is absurd. Nintendo has undergone a massive restructuring successfully and are pretty well positioned for this battle. They are very sleek, focused, and determined. They are the hungry dog, and will come out of this with quite a growth spurt. You can discount my claims, but my understanding and interaction with this industry afford me information most won't be seeing for some time. I have no crystal ball for Nintendo, but I do have insight to the 360 and PS3 and I have seen enough to easily see the trends and current happenings.
Well it actually is not contradictory to my statements. You are missing the fact that DirectX and the tools made available HAVE NO built-in access to the multiple cores and do none of the work here for the developer. So basically the quote you selected states how happy they are that they can reuse code... something that has been available to programmers for many many years. That's just silly.
The cores are what developers are laughing at, they are fairly useless for most anything useful.
Most of the developers I am personal friends with and close to work for smaller developers and they are all balking at the costs associated with the 360 and PS3, a few are working on some projects for these systems but are eagerly awaiting Nintendo's release of more information so that they can quickly transition if it indeed meets the assumed criteria.
This is no small isolated case, after speaking with a fair number of developers they are totally not on board with Sony or Ms in this round. Except for the developers that Sony and MS have courted (mainly very large companies who receive special treatment) Most developers are not seeing this round as profitable and are waiting to make a quick move to the Revolution hardware as it is a much more known and stable base to develop for. Similarly a few console projects I know of have changed to PC-only releases due to these same factors.
I'm not claiming Nintendo is going to do anything they have said, just that most dev's I've spoken with are watching it very closely to match with their needs and looking to move very fast.
Now all of those who modded me down and flamed incessantly about the fact that I have worked directly with developers who are working on these new systems and they all hate them and grumble with distaste when mentioned can pucker up to my chocolate starfish.
Everyone said my claims were unfounded and that MS's new toolkits and XNA were SOOOOO easy and would make their system a snap to code for... WRONG!
This is not just Japanese dev's, it is just that the JApanese have no loyalty to the Xbox so they aren't afraid to speak out. EVERY SINGLE dev in the U.S. that I've spoken to has told horror stories of the 360 and PS3 and the fact that no one will be utilizing the multi-cores for much of anything major. The budgets are unbearable for production and the timetables are so extended that super-long game delays and very small releases over the consoles life are going to be the norm.
The Revolution however, cannot be lumped into this as it is set to use very familiar toolsets, familiar hardware, and is going to bring developers with great titles but small teams, budgets, and timeframes running in droves to Nintendo. I don't care what side of the argument you are on, Nintendo is poised to make one of the biggest comebacks ever. Cheap, tried-and-true hardware, excellent dev tools, and a willingness to court back the lost dev's and new/individual developers as well.
No it is no fault of BT, for sure, it is just the wrong tool for the job as you state. However this article and most others on BT focus on the Filesharing aspect and it just boggles my mind why everyone fled to BT to get their 'Warez on.
I don't personally think eDonkey is a good solution either though. Poisoned files are too rampant these days to make these types of services viable anymore. What we need is something analogous to IRC where all but the higher intelligence/true geeks can do their thing without it being flooded by idiots and junk. Also some sort of file verification system is needed beyond a user rating system that is pretty fool-proof and solid to keep things legit and flowing smoothly.
Sure, easier said than done, but it is what is needed to get things back on track from the old days when filesharing was filesharing. Christ I sound like my father... damn aging.
Amen Brotha. The PSP is a kludge of barely useful features and a piss-poor library of games. My trusty PDA can play any emulated games, ebooks, browse the web, etc. with no mods and no effort. The PSP is a square peg being continually shoved into a round hole unsuccessfully. Please let it die with the Ngage, neither is going to go anywhere anytime soon.
I'm all for convergence, but not when it comes at the price of sanity. The whole because you can thing was cool when it was a hack, but now that it is released by Sony and cripples other "features" it really isn't impressive.
IMO is the whole tracker/seed deal. This part should have been made transparent to the point that users didn;t have to see or understand it. I personally never saw it as being that good of a system in the first place. It is not elegant nor does it lend itself to people using the software as it is intended.
The whole BT thing is a good idea for software releases and large files people are looking to download from a single site, say I go to a distro site and have a choice of FTP/HTTP/BT but to use it for P2P is just useless in my eyes.
The whole Zen "the interface is no interface" thing was a little unsettling too as I had no idea that my downloads were being slowed by my firewall back when BT first came out until I used a version that showed that there was a problem.
I still think there is a place for BT and software like it, but not for P2P filesharing. As much as I hate to admit it, I like having n00bs and clueless users on my system so I can access stuff easier and faster. BT was more for the tech savvy and they tend to be smart enough/greedy to never seed a download unless they happened to walk away from a download that completed.
I still pine for the days when Kazaa lite was not full of viruses/spyware/fake files and instead was a great easy quick system to get exactly what you wanted ASAP.
Then apparently Kasparov and his ilke must be pretty dumb to be beaten by such "simplistic" algorithms and you vastly superior.
I'm not trying to bag on you too much but I highly doubt you are beating Deep Blue anytime this century. Similarly I truly doubt you would put more than a couple days into a game where you got your ass handed to you each and every time. Sure it would be good training as an *option* but no sane human would ever want this to be the ONLY option. It truly isn't fun.
1.) Thou shalt not suck 2.) Thou shalt not covet another game/genre unless you do something new or different. 3.) Thou shalt not delay your release by more than 3 months. 4.) Thou shalt not glorify "smackin' a hoe," "clocking a grip," or "Bustin a nut." 5.) Thou shalt honor good game design over flashy graphics. 6.) Thou shalt not involve Mary Kate and Ashley, Britney Spears, or any other pre-teen/teen manufactured idol/heart throb. 7.) Thou shalt not overhype your creation only to produce a shiny turd. 8.) Thou shalt put effort into mini-games/extras or just leave them out. 9.) Thou shalt end your game with some sort of closeure other than just the names of the artistic director. 10.) Thou shalt not produce endless sequels in which you add a "quirky" sidekick.
I understand what you are saying, but even that is not truly what gamers want. A "Perfect Player" will kick your ass every time, even without cheating such as seeing through walls or tracking your button presses. The only reason games are fun is because you can win, given enough time you will figure out a pattern or discover the key to success. True AI has imperceptive patterns that you could spend years and never figure out, and if it is an adaptive AI that learns you will never figure it out.
Computers are smarter than we could ever hope to be, have perfect reaction time compared to a human, and have analytical abilities we could only dream of. Believe me when I say no gamer truly hopes to get what they wish for when it comes to AI. The result is a controller smashing bout of frustration. Game developers have always had the ability to tune AI and make it adaptive and a "perfect Player" the reason they leave it out is because it is no FUN... the whole point of gaming.
To illustrate grab a chess simulator and play it on the highest level. It will pwn you every time. Any computerized board game is a great example, checkers, backgammon, scrabble, whatever... the computer has the advantage everytime because it can process so much more data and with such accuracy you don't stand a chance.
Ahh, but you are are part of the wise minority of game console buyers. Older, smarter, wiser gamers know exactly this... but we are not the intended market for these systems. These are flashy, eye-candy, status consoles with no real gaming soul. Hell even Sony has been trying hard to say that the PS3 is NOT a game console.
If you haven't kept up almost every retailer is selling the 360 as a bundle only. The profit margins on the console itself are so razor thin and there is too much competition so retailers will indeed be bundling the consoles. I don't see a bundle coming in much below $5-600 on launch day.
There will most likely be a few random retailers offering the systems bare, but they will be the minority and not those that take pre-orders.
This release is all about impulse and hype, and when the smoke and mirrors come crashing down people will realize that the entire 360 and PS3 are nothing but more smoke and mirrors. If your not the type who has been posting on message boards since 2001 discussing the 360 or PS3 and every bit of hype and leak like it was gospel then you truly aren't in the target. They want the fanatic hype filled, money-to-burn, fanboy's who will buy the $1000.00 bundle without batting an eyelash.
It is because they scratch an itch that doesn't really exist. If you ask gamers if they would like to have a handheld that played 3D games well, with a nice color screen, could play movies/pictures/etc. had flash media support, wireless gaming... every one would say YES! with drool oozing from the corners of their mouths. But they don't want everything that comes with it, and gamers think that the world of reality doesn't enter into the gaming industry. The truth is all of those features add up to higher hardware costs (which means less actually buy the hardware), higher development costs and timeframes for game releases (which means less and less games get made), and most of the features end up being crippled or "ruined" for one reason or another when reality and laws kick in so the device doesn't match the magic idea they had in mind.
It is the same thing as if you ask a bunch of gamers if they wish games had better AI. They will all again yell YES! but the truth is that most games get their AI tuned way down because the truth is that when AI is very good the game is overly difficult and frustrating to the vast majority of gamers and it gets bashed and rated terribly, and relinquished to the bargain bin in disgrace. Computer AI has the easy ability to whoop even the best gamers ass... ever see the chess playing computers?
The truth is that people don't know what in the hell they want, and Sony and Nintendo (to a bit of a lesser extent) try to pander to these crowds when in reality half of the initial crowd ends up not wanting it due to some factor, and the rest of the market never wanted half of the features anyway... so the hardcore small minority is all that is left buying the product and viola! you get the situation we have.
The best I can compare this launch to is the Neo Geo launch and games. Uber expensive system that brought unrivaled GRAPHICS into the home. The system was largely a failure overall. The 360 and PS3 are both Graphical powerhouses, but graphics alone fall flat in the face of limited releases and poor gameplay/design.
The "Gee-Whiz" factor of eye-candy is fairly powerful, but slow release schedules and high prices have historically been killers. The fact that the underlying accessibility and gameplay needs to be top-notch as well cannot be overlooked and nothing so far seems to be bringing anything new to the table.
With the average bundle cost hovering around $600 and the fact that most stores will be selling in bundle-only format, I actually predict that the sales will not match the PS2/Xbox/GC releases. I think there will be a lot of hype, and a lot of die-hard fanboy sales, but I just don't see either of these systems capturing the average game market in any meaningful way. And once the slow release schedule becomes apparent the sales numbers are going to drop off quite briskly. The only unknown in this launch is the Revolution, and I am keeping a keen eye for what it's future holds.
Actually Nintendo's claims have been very conservative and non-hyped thus far which lends more credibility to them than anything. So far MS and Sony's claims have been wild, unsubstantiated, downright lies, or spin (such as the 360 "Lite") Nintendo has said this:
* A revolutionary controller aimed at allowing anyone to play (mothers, kids, etc.) Even if this only means that it is stripped down and simplified with no other features it would be a revolution. These 20+ button controllers are out of hand and totally unneeded... nothing new has been done since the Analog stick and nothing new is being done by Sony or MS. Nintendo is the only one not afraid to innovate here, and I have no reason to believe that they would base a whole consoles success around it only to be blowing smoke up our asses. They would be the only loser in that scenario, what sense does that make?
* They have never stated it would be first-party games only, you have made this up. But for a moment lets assume ONLY Nintendo developed/produced games get re-released... that is a back catalog filled with amazing games that every gamer grew up with and loved. I'm sure a few will not sign on, but what do they have to lose? re-release old small rom files that cost nothing to reap profits again from old games... I don't see many developers/publishers balking at this.
* My credential are not withstanding... I have been a close media contact with Sony and all of the publishers PS1 and PS2 divisions for a very long time. I have been immersed in Sony from the real business side, not the hype-filled user side. I understand the actual business and how it operates from the inside, to dismiss this so quickly as you try is crazy. The only Nintendo product I have owned since my SNES has been a GBA, which I love and is no contest one of the best handhelds ever created. Nintendo is the gold-standard as far as quality is concerned, I couldn't even count the number of times I have heard *Sony* employees speak of the solidness of Nintendo's this-or-that and strive for a similar level. Look at the Sony and MS hardware issues, now take the N64, GC, GBA combined and you still are not even close. I don't care what brand you are loyal to, to discount Nintendo's quality is stupidity.
* Every "team" is subject to bad products and bad decisions. Nintendo has made very few over the years. They have made three or four in my eyes over 20 years and only one or two have been big mistakes. I am not attached to Nintendo in any way, I believe they make some of the most innovative games that focus on gameplay over graphics and control and ease of use. I, personally, can't handle another cliche RPG, FPS, or up the year Sports title. After playing games for well over 20 years I have saved my share of worlds with reluctant heroes, blew up baddies into meat chunks, and sunk enough pucks into nets to have had my fill. I crave something new and fresh, the Revolution is my only hope of this... MS and Sony have nothing to interest me out of their launch titles as they ALL fall into these categories. My only hope lies with Nintendo and a hope that they will stay true to their form, which I have no reason to doubt.
The fact is that all this will shake out in due time, I am not going to argue with you... you obviously have a horse in this race.. or just hate the one named Nintendo... no matter what your fervant argument is fuled by, the truth will be told very soon. My experience enables me to look at things quite objectively and realisticlly, that is simply all I have done with these three consoles. I have no reason to believe I am wrong, nor will I be. In a year from now all I ask is that you remember this argument and think back to see how accurate it was on either side.
No, your post is just lacking any thought. The Nintendo SEAL of Approval shows that the game has passed rigorous testing (much moreso than Sony or MS)... any homebrew games I'm sure will not get approval of any kind and thus be hit-or-miss. But the simple fact that the community will quickly float the best stuff to the top and the dregs will be left at the bottom.
So no, it is not contradictory at all. In fact I have about 10 non-licensed original NES carts and a number of them are very good games. The hardware that you are playing on is the same quality Nintendo hardware, the development tool sare as well, the software you are running is the only variable... and I for one would be glad to sift through a bunch of cool homebrew and small studio games to find some real gems.
Remember where Doom came from? Duke Nukem? and countless other shareware titles that became big. This is hardly a problem, what happened to the Linux "more choice is better" attitude. Your argument flies contrary to our ethos compeltely. I'd rather have hundreds of titles where natural selection will bring the winners to the top over the same old big-studio games that are derivitive and clones of more of the same.
Exactly. Not all games are made for this, and most games require you to know the game for it to be any more interesting than paint drying.
But say you get four people together (they could be celebs or regular schmoes, or some of each) do a little bio/background on each one so people have some peronal attachment and are engaged beforehand. Then have them go at it in say MarioKart. You need to pick games that are fairly quick and allow for some hilarity to ensue. No one wants to watch a RTS or RPG for sure.
The thing is games are only fun because of the fanatasy and interactivity... just like when you were little and yelled at your sister for pushing the buttons on her controller while she waited to get back in the game. No one wants to just WATCH a game being played, you need to add an element of personal attachment to the players, humor (no one likes to watch people who are too serious play a game), and fairly quick paced action (not too fast or else viewers can't keep up). Mario Kart, Guild Wars PvP battle, even tetris/bust-a-move puzzle games wouldn't be bad.
The thing is just as I said G4 has it all wrong. There are so many opportunities and ways to make it interesting and fun, just typing this reply I've had probably a dozen ideas that are all viable.
I mean seriously, Nintendo has to be one of the most trustworthy companies in the industry. Sure they've had some flops but they all have been something radically new/different or well intentioned.
Everyone was frothing at the mouth when the delays were published, but sometimes a delay is a good thing. Gamers are a pissy bunch to deal with, they whine and bitch about buggy unfinished games and they whine and bitch abut delay's to improve buggy incomplete games. I personally would rather put up with a delay or two to get a finished product instead of being a paying beta tester to struggle until patch after patch is released.
Seriously, Nintendo has the brass set to delay big titles to ensure that they are up to par, and even go beyond. More true gamers should be behind them and in their endeavor with the Revolution as they are truly the last company FOR gamers and focusing on gameplay and quality in hardware and software. I especially think that if they can make some form of development kit for free/low cost for the Revolution all the/.'ers will have finally found a geek friendly console and company.
Oh, god... Pompous, Arrogant, Ass - that would be a nice way of summarizing the guy. I'm not sure how you can miss his personality by his appearance and actions on TV but apparently you did:)
I guess some people aren't put off by him or his antics and personality, but to me it is like fingers on a chalk board.
I've met the guy twice. The first time was at E3, the second time was at the Mortal Kombat Release two years ago and I called him a dick, he talked shit then backed off like a pansy. I wanted so bad to get arrested kicking Seanbaby's ass just so I would make the news and get some kudo's from the true gamers out there who despise him as much as I do. I'm still mad I didn't just sucker-punch him when I had the chance, damn me for taking the man-to-man approach.
Word. He definitely has a face for radio, I guess in his case a face/personality for the web.
God I tried to repress that, but I never felt so sorry for people than seeing a bunch of lame people oogling "Videogame Vixens" and awards for best jiggle, etc. That was pretty low and even some of the most hardcore parent-basement dwelling dorks would have more self-respect than to be on TV discussing the jiggle of a videogame boob.
I seriously weep when I flip past G4 and realize that they have basically done nothing to help raise the image of gamers/geeks, they manage to play into every stereotype and then go even lower. I shudder to think of the average joe's opinion after watching 5 minutes of G4.
A videogame network could be so cool with such little effort. Have people playing multiplayer online games and just televise it with maybe some commentating. Hell I'd flip it on to watch a cool deathmatch or Mario Kart or basically anything *other* than what is currently on G4. And the chance to get to play and have it televised would be pretty neat for gamers.
They could have 12 women orgies with a donkey and a floor-lamp and I still wouldn't watch that channel. "Sean Baby" is enough to make me throw up, let alone the sickly little blonde dude and his emo/lame chick sidekick.
As my girlfriend puts it, "I'd rather watch someone just play a game for an hour than this crap." The only exception was their "Johnny Extreme!" E3 bit, and even that was only funny because I was there and saw it going on. TO THE MAX! IT'LL PUNCH YOUR BALLS OFF! EXTREME!... and SUPERFULOUS!
Slashdot Mirror
Did anyone really think that either of these systems would be 10 times a spowerful, let alone 20? If you did you need a visit from the reality fairy. Now, who in the fsck thinks that the PS3 GPU is going to be better than the 7800??? surely only the same delusional ones who believed the former too.
Come on, this is consumer hardware the 7800 alone would be about the same cost as the entire PS3 and that isn't even at retail price. Consoles use cut down specialized processors, and yes they can be BASED on an existing product but they rarely use any OTS hardware due to cost.
It is no surprise to me that the PS3 will be less powerful than the 7800, I figured it all along. News Flash! When will people learn. Gamers can be some of the most stupid and gullible folks on Earth. If I touch a burning candle once I generally won't be having a second go at it. But gamers get fed the same B.S. every couple years and eat it up, get their hopes up, and then get let down when it was all hype. EVERY FREAKIN TIME!
Your "loyalty" means nothing to any of these companies except easy money and a sure sale. Get a freakin clue people, when will folks wake up? The xbox 360, the PS3, and the Revolution will be basically the same power-wise, they will all have similar features but implemented slightly differently, and each have their own strengths and weaknesses. REALITY FOLKS, REALITY. Please come back to it.
be as bummed that after $350 and playing Lumines that there is little else to do with your PSP except to hack it to play old gameboy/NES titles or browse the web wirelessly on a tiny screen and complete with "out of memory" errors! Yay! whatever.
Simply THE WORST excuse for an actress was plain to see in Alone in the Dark. I never have been so amazed at poor acting that made it into a big budget film. Thank God even Uwe had the stones to say it was one of the worst performances ever in his interview. I just can't agree with him on his skills or the "quality" of his movies.
Alone in the Dark was abysmal, yet he continually tries to stick up fo rit and claim it was poorly promoted. Sorry, promotion was the least of your concerns here.
He is unappologetic and filled with excuses for his work. I found the interview to be a wash and did nothing in my eyes to help his case.
Yeah that dude has got to be one of the worst scourges of /. in all my years. Having run two news sites in my past I know the job, and 'ol Zonk wouldn't have lasted two days with me.
I hope his children are born with one testicle, including the females.
I really wish I understood where you seem to thing the Revolution will be multi-core. By all accounts so far it will not be.
Also your asumptions about art and difficulties outside of programming are false. Take a look at the mandate from MS. Where all games have to be created in HD, 4xAA, and run at no less than 60fps AT ALL TIMES. This is a requirement to even produce for the 360. I'm not sure if you are aware but barely any games produced to date meet these standards, let alone an entirely new architecture, and the rest of the concerns such as debugging and tweaking. These all may not seem like much to you, but to developers this is unneeded added cost and time not to mention pretty much screwing ports and multi-console releases.
The Revolution claims to be twice as powerful as current gen consoles. The 360 and PS3 have turned out to be... about twice as powerful as current gen systems. So your assumption that it will be so slow are completely unfounded.
Similarly your idea that small developers are going to take to Xbox Live is way off base. The costs associated with this type of development are far outside the scope that Nintendo is talking about. It's apples and oranges.
Factor 5 and about 5 or 6 other developers have also came out and publicly made similar claims. Developers goals are to get their game on as many systems as possible, hell handhelds, PDAs and cell phones are even desired. The fact that they are having to choose a side because of development costs and difficulties IS A BAD THING. It's bad for gamers, it's bad for the industry, and it's bad for the developer. No one wins here, not even Sony or MS in the long run because gamers will buy their console based on a few exclusives instead of the overall leader.
I could go on and on, you simply don't see things from a realistic standpoint. I would simply like to end this debate by saying, keep an eye on how things actually turn out and remember how right you thought you were. I guess, myself, Gabe Newell (of valve), Factor 5 (who also did rogue squadron if you forgot conveiniently), and numerous others must all be crazy to think as we do... but maybe not.
Your reply shows that you have never done console development or worked in this industry. Every console release is generally met with some grumbling about some feature or other. This is normal and expected. The amount of grumbling this round is to a magnitude never before seen. And the thing is that it is not the programmers complaining the loudest. Everyone is affected by these new systems. Budgets, Time constraints, debugging, art, optimization, and programmers. These are all massive concerns and are not similar to anything ever before.
This jump in costs is exponential, and pushes most dev's out of contention to even begin to develop for these systems. They are turning away and not playing along. What is happening is that developers are having to pick ONE console and only develop for it. Factor 5 was one of the first to make this move. Multiple cores is one thing, 7 non-standard semi-cores that are specialized and not optimized for any particular use is another. Again you just don't understand what the reality is of these systems.
The Revolution is different, again, no matter which company you like you cannot deny the differences. The system is built on almost identical hardware to the GC, just faster. The GC dev tools were fantastic! ask any developer, they were phenominal. Sony's were and are again not so hot overall. MS is right in the middle. This is not opinion it is fact, again, irregardless of where your loyalties lie.
Nintendo has made a specific point to aim for smaller developers (even indie/individuals) because they know that the other players have painted themselves into a corner costwise and have pushed a lot of small-mid sized devel's away. They will regain a large number of third-party devels. Personally I know of three who had produced for PS2 and are not renewing licensing agreements in favor of the Revolution NO MATTER what their final licensing looks like. These are big money companies with a good bit of clout, to make a unknown comitment like that in any business is a pretty bold statement. And one Nintendo is well aware of at this point and will do everything in their power to gain.
The Nintendo development tools, costs, and licensing will indeed be much lower than the others. How much so, no one knows yet. But they are commited to this new angle, and to think they won't nail it is absurd. Nintendo has undergone a massive restructuring successfully and are pretty well positioned for this battle. They are very sleek, focused, and determined. They are the hungry dog, and will come out of this with quite a growth spurt. You can discount my claims, but my understanding and interaction with this industry afford me information most won't be seeing for some time. I have no crystal ball for Nintendo, but I do have insight to the 360 and PS3 and I have seen enough to easily see the trends and current happenings.
Well it actually is not contradictory to my statements. You are missing the fact that DirectX and the tools made available HAVE NO built-in access to the multiple cores and do none of the work here for the developer. So basically the quote you selected states how happy they are that they can reuse code... something that has been available to programmers for many many years. That's just silly.
The cores are what developers are laughing at, they are fairly useless for most anything useful.
Most of the developers I am personal friends with and close to work for smaller developers and they are all balking at the costs associated with the 360 and PS3, a few are working on some projects for these systems but are eagerly awaiting Nintendo's release of more information so that they can quickly transition if it indeed meets the assumed criteria.
This is no small isolated case, after speaking with a fair number of developers they are totally not on board with Sony or Ms in this round. Except for the developers that Sony and MS have courted (mainly very large companies who receive special treatment) Most developers are not seeing this round as profitable and are waiting to make a quick move to the Revolution hardware as it is a much more known and stable base to develop for. Similarly a few console projects I know of have changed to PC-only releases due to these same factors.
I'm not claiming Nintendo is going to do anything they have said, just that most dev's I've spoken with are watching it very closely to match with their needs and looking to move very fast.
Now all of those who modded me down and flamed incessantly about the fact that I have worked directly with developers who are working on these new systems and they all hate them and grumble with distaste when mentioned can pucker up to my chocolate starfish.
Everyone said my claims were unfounded and that MS's new toolkits and XNA were SOOOOO easy and would make their system a snap to code for... WRONG!
This is not just Japanese dev's, it is just that the JApanese have no loyalty to the Xbox so they aren't afraid to speak out. EVERY SINGLE dev in the U.S. that I've spoken to has told horror stories of the 360 and PS3 and the fact that no one will be utilizing the multi-cores for much of anything major. The budgets are unbearable for production and the timetables are so extended that super-long game delays and very small releases over the consoles life are going to be the norm.
The Revolution however, cannot be lumped into this as it is set to use very familiar toolsets, familiar hardware, and is going to bring developers with great titles but small teams, budgets, and timeframes running in droves to Nintendo. I don't care what side of the argument you are on, Nintendo is poised to make one of the biggest comebacks ever. Cheap, tried-and-true hardware, excellent dev tools, and a willingness to court back the lost dev's and new/individual developers as well.
No it is no fault of BT, for sure, it is just the wrong tool for the job as you state. However this article and most others on BT focus on the Filesharing aspect and it just boggles my mind why everyone fled to BT to get their 'Warez on.
I don't personally think eDonkey is a good solution either though. Poisoned files are too rampant these days to make these types of services viable anymore. What we need is something analogous to IRC where all but the higher intelligence/true geeks can do their thing without it being flooded by idiots and junk. Also some sort of file verification system is needed beyond a user rating system that is pretty fool-proof and solid to keep things legit and flowing smoothly.
Sure, easier said than done, but it is what is needed to get things back on track from the old days when filesharing was filesharing. Christ I sound like my father... damn aging.
Amen Brotha. The PSP is a kludge of barely useful features and a piss-poor library of games. My trusty PDA can play any emulated games, ebooks, browse the web, etc. with no mods and no effort. The PSP is a square peg being continually shoved into a round hole unsuccessfully. Please let it die with the Ngage, neither is going to go anywhere anytime soon.
I'm all for convergence, but not when it comes at the price of sanity. The whole because you can thing was cool when it was a hack, but now that it is released by Sony and cripples other "features" it really isn't impressive.
IMO is the whole tracker/seed deal. This part should have been made transparent to the point that users didn;t have to see or understand it. I personally never saw it as being that good of a system in the first place. It is not elegant nor does it lend itself to people using the software as it is intended.
The whole BT thing is a good idea for software releases and large files people are looking to download from a single site, say I go to a distro site and have a choice of FTP/HTTP/BT but to use it for P2P is just useless in my eyes.
The whole Zen "the interface is no interface" thing was a little unsettling too as I had no idea that my downloads were being slowed by my firewall back when BT first came out until I used a version that showed that there was a problem.
I still think there is a place for BT and software like it, but not for P2P filesharing. As much as I hate to admit it, I like having n00bs and clueless users on my system so I can access stuff easier and faster. BT was more for the tech savvy and they tend to be smart enough/greedy to never seed a download unless they happened to walk away from a download that completed.
I still pine for the days when Kazaa lite was not full of viruses/spyware/fake files and instead was a great easy quick system to get exactly what you wanted ASAP.
Then apparently Kasparov and his ilke must be pretty dumb to be beaten by such "simplistic" algorithms and you vastly superior.
I'm not trying to bag on you too much but I highly doubt you are beating Deep Blue anytime this century. Similarly I truly doubt you would put more than a couple days into a game where you got your ass handed to you each and every time. Sure it would be good training as an *option* but no sane human would ever want this to be the ONLY option. It truly isn't fun.
1.) Thou shalt not suck
2.) Thou shalt not covet another game/genre unless you do something new or different.
3.) Thou shalt not delay your release by more than 3 months.
4.) Thou shalt not glorify "smackin' a hoe," "clocking a grip," or "Bustin a nut."
5.) Thou shalt honor good game design over flashy graphics.
6.) Thou shalt not involve Mary Kate and Ashley, Britney Spears, or any other pre-teen/teen manufactured idol/heart throb.
7.) Thou shalt not overhype your creation only to produce a shiny turd.
8.) Thou shalt put effort into mini-games/extras or just leave them out.
9.) Thou shalt end your game with some sort of closeure other than just the names of the artistic director.
10.) Thou shalt not produce endless sequels in which you add a "quirky" sidekick.
I understand what you are saying, but even that is not truly what gamers want. A "Perfect Player" will kick your ass every time, even without cheating such as seeing through walls or tracking your button presses. The only reason games are fun is because you can win, given enough time you will figure out a pattern or discover the key to success. True AI has imperceptive patterns that you could spend years and never figure out, and if it is an adaptive AI that learns you will never figure it out.
Computers are smarter than we could ever hope to be, have perfect reaction time compared to a human, and have analytical abilities we could only dream of. Believe me when I say no gamer truly hopes to get what they wish for when it comes to AI. The result is a controller smashing bout of frustration. Game developers have always had the ability to tune AI and make it adaptive and a "perfect Player" the reason they leave it out is because it is no FUN... the whole point of gaming.
To illustrate grab a chess simulator and play it on the highest level. It will pwn you every time. Any computerized board game is a great example, checkers, backgammon, scrabble, whatever... the computer has the advantage everytime because it can process so much more data and with such accuracy you don't stand a chance.
Ahh, but you are are part of the wise minority of game console buyers. Older, smarter, wiser gamers know exactly this... but we are not the intended market for these systems. These are flashy, eye-candy, status consoles with no real gaming soul. Hell even Sony has been trying hard to say that the PS3 is NOT a game console.
If you haven't kept up almost every retailer is selling the 360 as a bundle only. The profit margins on the console itself are so razor thin and there is too much competition so retailers will indeed be bundling the consoles. I don't see a bundle coming in much below $5-600 on launch day.
There will most likely be a few random retailers offering the systems bare, but they will be the minority and not those that take pre-orders.
This release is all about impulse and hype, and when the smoke and mirrors come crashing down people will realize that the entire 360 and PS3 are nothing but more smoke and mirrors. If your not the type who has been posting on message boards since 2001 discussing the 360 or PS3 and every bit of hype and leak like it was gospel then you truly aren't in the target. They want the fanatic hype filled, money-to-burn, fanboy's who will buy the $1000.00 bundle without batting an eyelash.
It is because they scratch an itch that doesn't really exist. If you ask gamers if they would like to have a handheld that played 3D games well, with a nice color screen, could play movies/pictures/etc. had flash media support, wireless gaming... every one would say YES! with drool oozing from the corners of their mouths. But they don't want everything that comes with it, and gamers think that the world of reality doesn't enter into the gaming industry. The truth is all of those features add up to higher hardware costs (which means less actually buy the hardware), higher development costs and timeframes for game releases (which means less and less games get made), and most of the features end up being crippled or "ruined" for one reason or another when reality and laws kick in so the device doesn't match the magic idea they had in mind.
It is the same thing as if you ask a bunch of gamers if they wish games had better AI. They will all again yell YES! but the truth is that most games get their AI tuned way down because the truth is that when AI is very good the game is overly difficult and frustrating to the vast majority of gamers and it gets bashed and rated terribly, and relinquished to the bargain bin in disgrace. Computer AI has the easy ability to whoop even the best gamers ass... ever see the chess playing computers?
The truth is that people don't know what in the hell they want, and Sony and Nintendo (to a bit of a lesser extent) try to pander to these crowds when in reality half of the initial crowd ends up not wanting it due to some factor, and the rest of the market never wanted half of the features anyway... so the hardcore small minority is all that is left buying the product and viola! you get the situation we have.
The best I can compare this launch to is the Neo Geo launch and games. Uber expensive system that brought unrivaled GRAPHICS into the home. The system was largely a failure overall. The 360 and PS3 are both Graphical powerhouses, but graphics alone fall flat in the face of limited releases and poor gameplay/design.
The "Gee-Whiz" factor of eye-candy is fairly powerful, but slow release schedules and high prices have historically been killers. The fact that the underlying accessibility and gameplay needs to be top-notch as well cannot be overlooked and nothing so far seems to be bringing anything new to the table.
With the average bundle cost hovering around $600 and the fact that most stores will be selling in bundle-only format, I actually predict that the sales will not match the PS2/Xbox/GC releases. I think there will be a lot of hype, and a lot of die-hard fanboy sales, but I just don't see either of these systems capturing the average game market in any meaningful way. And once the slow release schedule becomes apparent the sales numbers are going to drop off quite briskly. The only unknown in this launch is the Revolution, and I am keeping a keen eye for what it's future holds.
Actually Nintendo's claims have been very conservative and non-hyped thus far which lends more credibility to them than anything. So far MS and Sony's claims have been wild, unsubstantiated, downright lies, or spin (such as the 360 "Lite") Nintendo has said this:
* A revolutionary controller aimed at allowing anyone to play (mothers, kids, etc.) Even if this only means that it is stripped down and simplified with no other features it would be a revolution. These 20+ button controllers are out of hand and totally unneeded... nothing new has been done since the Analog stick and nothing new is being done by Sony or MS. Nintendo is the only one not afraid to innovate here, and I have no reason to believe that they would base a whole consoles success around it only to be blowing smoke up our asses. They would be the only loser in that scenario, what sense does that make?
* They have never stated it would be first-party games only, you have made this up. But for a moment lets assume ONLY Nintendo developed/produced games get re-released... that is a back catalog filled with amazing games that every gamer grew up with and loved. I'm sure a few will not sign on, but what do they have to lose? re-release old small rom files that cost nothing to reap profits again from old games... I don't see many developers/publishers balking at this.
* My credential are not withstanding... I have been a close media contact with Sony and all of the publishers PS1 and PS2 divisions for a very long time. I have been immersed in Sony from the real business side, not the hype-filled user side. I understand the actual business and how it operates from the inside, to dismiss this so quickly as you try is crazy. The only Nintendo product I have owned since my SNES has been a GBA, which I love and is no contest one of the best handhelds ever created. Nintendo is the gold-standard as far as quality is concerned, I couldn't even count the number of times I have heard *Sony* employees speak of the solidness of Nintendo's this-or-that and strive for a similar level. Look at the Sony and MS hardware issues, now take the N64, GC, GBA combined and you still are not even close. I don't care what brand you are loyal to, to discount Nintendo's quality is stupidity.
* Every "team" is subject to bad products and bad decisions. Nintendo has made very few over the years. They have made three or four in my eyes over 20 years and only one or two have been big mistakes. I am not attached to Nintendo in any way, I believe they make some of the most innovative games that focus on gameplay over graphics and control and ease of use. I, personally, can't handle another cliche RPG, FPS, or up the year Sports title. After playing games for well over 20 years I have saved my share of worlds with reluctant heroes, blew up baddies into meat chunks, and sunk enough pucks into nets to have had my fill. I crave something new and fresh, the Revolution is my only hope of this... MS and Sony have nothing to interest me out of their launch titles as they ALL fall into these categories. My only hope lies with Nintendo and a hope that they will stay true to their form, which I have no reason to doubt.
The fact is that all this will shake out in due time, I am not going to argue with you... you obviously have a horse in this race.. or just hate the one named Nintendo... no matter what your fervant argument is fuled by, the truth will be told very soon. My experience enables me to look at things quite objectively and realisticlly, that is simply all I have done with these three consoles. I have no reason to believe I am wrong, nor will I be. In a year from now all I ask is that you remember this argument and think back to see how accurate it was on either side.
No, your post is just lacking any thought. The Nintendo SEAL of Approval shows that the game has passed rigorous testing (much moreso than Sony or MS)... any homebrew games I'm sure will not get approval of any kind and thus be hit-or-miss. But the simple fact that the community will quickly float the best stuff to the top and the dregs will be left at the bottom.
So no, it is not contradictory at all. In fact I have about 10 non-licensed original NES carts and a number of them are very good games. The hardware that you are playing on is the same quality Nintendo hardware, the development tool sare as well, the software you are running is the only variable... and I for one would be glad to sift through a bunch of cool homebrew and small studio games to find some real gems.
Remember where Doom came from? Duke Nukem? and countless other shareware titles that became big. This is hardly a problem, what happened to the Linux "more choice is better" attitude. Your argument flies contrary to our ethos compeltely. I'd rather have hundreds of titles where natural selection will bring the winners to the top over the same old big-studio games that are derivitive and clones of more of the same.
Exactly. Not all games are made for this, and most games require you to know the game for it to be any more interesting than paint drying.
But say you get four people together (they could be celebs or regular schmoes, or some of each) do a little bio/background on each one so people have some peronal attachment and are engaged beforehand. Then have them go at it in say MarioKart. You need to pick games that are fairly quick and allow for some hilarity to ensue. No one wants to watch a RTS or RPG for sure.
The thing is games are only fun because of the fanatasy and interactivity... just like when you were little and yelled at your sister for pushing the buttons on her controller while she waited to get back in the game. No one wants to just WATCH a game being played, you need to add an element of personal attachment to the players, humor (no one likes to watch people who are too serious play a game), and fairly quick paced action (not too fast or else viewers can't keep up). Mario Kart, Guild Wars PvP battle, even tetris/bust-a-move puzzle games wouldn't be bad.
The thing is just as I said G4 has it all wrong. There are so many opportunities and ways to make it interesting and fun, just typing this reply I've had probably a dozen ideas that are all viable.
I mean seriously, Nintendo has to be one of the most trustworthy companies in the industry. Sure they've had some flops but they all have been something radically new/different or well intentioned.
/.'ers will have finally found a geek friendly console and company.
Everyone was frothing at the mouth when the delays were published, but sometimes a delay is a good thing. Gamers are a pissy bunch to deal with, they whine and bitch about buggy unfinished games and they whine and bitch abut delay's to improve buggy incomplete games. I personally would rather put up with a delay or two to get a finished product instead of being a paying beta tester to struggle until patch after patch is released.
Seriously, Nintendo has the brass set to delay big titles to ensure that they are up to par, and even go beyond. More true gamers should be behind them and in their endeavor with the Revolution as they are truly the last company FOR gamers and focusing on gameplay and quality in hardware and software. I especially think that if they can make some form of development kit for free/low cost for the Revolution all the
Oh, god... Pompous, Arrogant, Ass - that would be a nice way of summarizing the guy. I'm not sure how you can miss his personality by his appearance and actions on TV but apparently you did :)
I guess some people aren't put off by him or his antics and personality, but to me it is like fingers on a chalk board.
I've met the guy twice. The first time was at E3, the second time was at the Mortal Kombat Release two years ago and I called him a dick, he talked shit then backed off like a pansy. I wanted so bad to get arrested kicking Seanbaby's ass just so I would make the news and get some kudo's from the true gamers out there who despise him as much as I do. I'm still mad I didn't just sucker-punch him when I had the chance, damn me for taking the man-to-man approach.
Word. He definitely has a face for radio, I guess in his case a face/personality for the web.
God I tried to repress that, but I never felt so sorry for people than seeing a bunch of lame people oogling "Videogame Vixens" and awards for best jiggle, etc. That was pretty low and even some of the most hardcore parent-basement dwelling dorks would have more self-respect than to be on TV discussing the jiggle of a videogame boob.
I seriously weep when I flip past G4 and realize that they have basically done nothing to help raise the image of gamers/geeks, they manage to play into every stereotype and then go even lower. I shudder to think of the average joe's opinion after watching 5 minutes of G4.
A videogame network could be so cool with such little effort. Have people playing multiplayer online games and just televise it with maybe some commentating. Hell I'd flip it on to watch a cool deathmatch or Mario Kart or basically anything *other* than what is currently on G4. And the chance to get to play and have it televised would be pretty neat for gamers.
People actually WATCH G4?!?
They could have 12 women orgies with a donkey and a floor-lamp and I still wouldn't watch that channel. "Sean Baby" is enough to make me throw up, let alone the sickly little blonde dude and his emo/lame chick sidekick.
As my girlfriend puts it, "I'd rather watch someone just play a game for an hour than this crap." The only exception was their "Johnny Extreme!" E3 bit, and even that was only funny because I was there and saw it going on. TO THE MAX! IT'LL PUNCH YOUR BALLS OFF! EXTREME!... and SUPERFULOUS!