If NPR was broadcasting from a posh, gold-leaf lined building instead of a dank, 60's era broadcasting cast offs then I would be a little more sympathetic.
I hear ya. It reminds me of the wife of the ex-CEO of Enron on Larry King that night when she was in tears because she couldn't even imagine how they were going to survive on their "last 20 million dollars". Didn't see THEM start up a "save the C's (CEO, CFO, etc.) at Enron" fund.
Salon was STUPID with their money, so they get to reap the consequences.
Who knows how will this unnecessary abuse will reflect on their adulthood ?
I have to laugh at this a bit, because it reminds me of two instances of when I met high-school bullies 15 years after the fact.
Some background: I was a year younger than most of the kids in school. I was overweight, yet coordinated. (I could never beat someone on a one-on-one layup, but could shoot 3-pointers like nobody's business, and was a pitcher for our city's rep baseball team). I was also kind of smart... math club (it was fun), chemistry club (access to cool explosive stuff), ran the high school's mainframe (sold copies of provincial exams that I "acquired"), etc. I was also a pilot (Canadian Air Cadets), and ended up becoming an instructor. I didn't like school, and it was just the place I went because I had to. I always thought that people who said it was the "best times of their life" were sad and/or pitiful.
Needless to say, a couple of other guys were pretty insecure and ended up picking on a bunch of people, me included. It never bugged me, and only once did it turn into a physical altercation. (It was funny, as I ended up breaking his arm... he didn't quite clue into the fact that I was 50 pounds heavier than him, and yet still in somewhat decent shape with excellent reflexes).
So, flash forward to 15 years later, at an ATM in my home town. There's this little short guy (5' 6") standing in front of me, balding, glasses, maybe 140lbs soaking wet. I'm 5'8", 240lbs. He looks up, recognizes me, but can't place the face. "Do I know you?", he asks. "Yep. We went to high school together. You're Mike Smith". With that, he kind of gets a little uncomfortable and embarrassed, and goes, "you're... Jeff?" "Yup". "Wow. You got big." You see, while he had got married, had the 2.3 kids and bought the mini-van, I'd gone to a Military College (for Comp. Eng.) and played national rugby. He didn't. I grew up, got in shape. He didn't. At that point, all he could remember was how he used to bully me in high school. He looked VERY uncomfortable. Man, did I laugh at that.
Then there was the captain of our football team. I was CTO of a company that was in the final stages of having a new building built, and we ordered a semi-trailer full of office furniture. I was there going over the network/electrical systems with the on-site foreman when the shipment arrived, and the guy driving the truck looks familiar. It was the captain of the team. Talk about a little bit of a turn-around from the days of high school! We chatted, and it turned out that he was in the middle of a divorce, only had part time work. In short, his life was really sucking, and I felt for the guy. He asked what we did at the company, and I told him how we were a record company, and I was responsible for all the technology for bands like Sarah McLachlan, Bryan Adams, Lilith Fair, etc, and some of the really cool things we got to do. It almost seemed like he finally realized that he'd made a mistake not concentrating on his academics. (Personally, I think you have to have a well-balanced education that includes sports/social events as well as academics)
Now, at the end of the day, it doesn't matter how smart you are, it's all about social interaction. You can be dumber than a stump, the smartest guy on the planet, a jock, or not, and you can still be a condescending asshole that draws "unwanted" or "undesireable" attention.
Mind you, I can't WAIT to go to my 20 year reunion!
Gee, maybe I have some issues of my own, you think?;)
The only thing that I had to deal with was the fact that my Logitech mouse and keyboard preferences were reset to their factory defaults. (specifically the custom button assignments were all reset).
I'm not sure if this is really because of the update, but I can't think of anything else that I did that might have caused it...
Yeah, but this time, it'll probably be Apple doing the suing.;)
Re:it is VERY trollish
on
The Faded Sun
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· Score: 1
That may be true but HP is not Sun. When I worked in a Sun shop if we had a hardware problem the techs were on-site WITH the parts they needed in under an hour. It was pretty much the same with the Cisco support contract we had.
I'll say!
I've dealt with HP, Sun, and Cisco tech support, and HP is by FAR the worst. (I've had nothing but AWESOME tech support from Cisco and Sun).
We've had issues with Cisco and Sun gear where there were some crazy-assed weird shit going on, and in a matter of a couple of hours, we were talking to some VERY senior guys that REALLY knew their shit. We also had replacement parts en-route in 45 minutes, and on-site and installed in under 3 hours... and this wasn't even Platinum support!
With HP, we called and filed a report, and the first response we got back was from their customer feedback centre, asking how we found dealing with their engineers and how we liked their resolution process.
Needless to say, they were a little quiet on the other end of the phone while we were laughing, saying "you've got to be kidding me, right?" and informed them that we hadn't even had our first call-back from tech support yet.
So, after finally getting the tech support guy on the phone, running some diagnostics on our box, he concluded that the problem was a faulty motherboard. He scheduled an on-site visit for the next day to replace the motherboard. This was day 5, and we had a "2 day on-site" support contract with them.
Anyway, the guys shows up the next day, and gee... guess what he forgot to bring with him? You guessed it... no motherboard. Rescheduled for the next day, which was then postponed because now the MB had to be shipped in from Toronto (we were in Vancouver).
Needless to say, 10 days (8 business) later, we had it replaced and functioning. 2 months later, we replaced the WHOLE HP box with a Sun.
The only bright side was that the "customer feedback" guys never called back.:)
I, too, am a small business owner, and have much the same policies in place.
We ended up firing a receptionist because she complained that her brand new iMac didn't have any hard drive space left, and she needed a new one.
One of our Sys Admins came into my office with this stupid "you ain't gonna believe this" kind of look on his face, and proceded to explain to me that after looking into her problem/request, found over 11GB (yes that's ELEVEN GIGS!) of space used on her machine to store MP3's. These MP3's were downloaded at work, using software that is NOT allowed on our internal systems (as per the employment agreement and Internet usage terms she'd signed when she was hired).
We "slapped her wrists", and a month later performed a spot check on the system, and she was already back up to 2GB of MP3's.
She didn't even have to take her coat off when she next came to work... she was out the door.
People don't seem to realize that there are financial consequences to doing this, never mind the legal liabilities.
People don't seem to understand that it COSTS MONEY to download, store, and backup that data.
Now, we believe in music (hell, I've been a musician for over 25 years, and have done "high tech" in the music industry for at least half of that), so much so that we hand out iPods when people pass their probationary period, and just about everyone understands the justifications for the policies we have in place.
I'm proud to say that we have extremely awesome employees who actually GET IT. That's quite refreshing in today's society where people have such an over-inflated sense of entitlement.
I find it rather interesting to see techs whose main criticism of a mac is its price, quoting the difference between a top G4 and a top PC they've built themselves, with price differences in the low few thousands......And then see them driving a $30,000 car they spend less than an hour in each day.
It's priorities. Occasionally I spend upwards of 10-14 hours a day in front of my mac. It gets -used-, it affects me, and I want to be comfortable with it.
I _SOOO_ agree. I have a software development company with about 12 employees, and we ALL work from home about 90% of the time. Friends and relatives look at me strange when they see the coin I spend on my work environment at home. $3k for a custom desk that has everything I need, where I want it. $1k for a chair (Herman Miller Aeron). $4k for a 22" mac Cinema Display for my top-end powerBook. The list goes on and on.
A lot of them have comments like "wow, you like all the toys, don't you". Guess what? They're NOT toys!
A couple of developers came over to my place the other day and one of them used my system for about half an hour. His comment was "Wow... I could work ALL DAY here without a problem! That's a sweet setup!" As a result, he's started to invest some of his own cash into a more pleasant work environment himself.
There ya go... I _DO_ spend LOTS of time at that setup... more than I spend with my fiance, in my car, wherever. No only is it my job, it's also one of my hobbies. And I'll tell you straight up that it's much more effective and efficient time spent because of the "toys".
Stop! It's Deadly! ....but have you tried THIS?
on
Potato Bazookas
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· Score: 5, Funny
From the story:
German police fear that the youths will turn to more lethal ammunition than potatoes. Tests have shown that such a bazooka firing an empty film canister filled with sand and the cardboard centres of toilet rolls filled with cement could penetrate brickwork.
I love that... "hey kids, those potato gun things are WAY too dangerous for you! Don't try it, but THESE things are WAY more destructive!"
Do English-speaking people receive spam in foreign languages?
I have an email address that is used exclusively for the Bugtraq mailing list over at securityfocus, and funnily enough, out of about 30 spams a day it gets, 50% are from some 163.com company based in China, and the other half are from Nigeria (the whole "please help us get millions of dollars out of the country" scam).
I was always kind of curious as to the response the Nigerian guys got from a security-based mail-list.
One of the funniest examples of "testing hard drive g-force endurance" was a review I read for MacAddict or MacReview (or some other Mac rag), where the writer was testing defrag software.
For the hell of it, he started the defrag process, threw the laptop into a backpack, and then went mountain biking for the afternoon.
He ended up fracturing a rib due to a wipeout, but the laptop, and it's drive, came out just fine.
I don't understand how the Segway, which weighs 69lbs can be safer than a skateboard, or rollerblades.
Dude... I'm a 275lbs rugby player that can't roller-blade for shit. Trust me when I say that ANY segway accident will be WAY safer than me "losing it" on my blades!
Re:Playing Games you don't understand.
on
Spammers Busted
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· Score: 1
There's an old con-artist saying:
"You can't cheat an honest man."
I also thing that "thinning of the herd" is somewhat appropriate as well.
Re:They're going to feed us what??
on
Tornado in a Can
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· Score: 2
You HAVE eaten hotdogs haven't you? Same difference.
A friend of mine used to love hotdogs, before he started working in a meat processing plant that made them.
When I asked him why he looks sick at even thinking about eating a hotdog now, all he says is "well, let's just say that they're a greyish/white paste before they put the food colouring in, OK?".
The other thing we have going for us is that the cost of the software is less than $10,000 so that means that it's not THAT big of a deal if support for it goes away. It's not like a company is likely to base their entire business around our product.
At the end of the day, escrow is reasonable risk management for the situation.
I'm the CTO of a software development company called Intellinger.
We're young, new on the block, and competing against some big fish in the performance monitoring space.
One of the biggest issues we have is trying to placate potential customers that are worried about us going out of business and leaving them with un-supported code.
To get around this, we've put copies of source code, with docs, build environments/scripts, etc., in escrow. This way, if we DO go down in flames, all registered license holders of our software are entitled to complete access to EVERYTHING required to support the software themselves.
This keeps our investors happy, our customers happy, and us, the developers, happy. There's NO WAY IN HELL that our investors, or me, for that matter, would condone or support making our entire product OS. We've spent a couple of years working on this thing, and we'd like to get some benefit out of it.
There is an infrastructure (that we call Brazil) that will probably be put into open source in about 6 months, but the customized/specialized modules that plug into it that we've developed will NOT be made OS.
Obviously, our position could change in the future, but for now, it's not an all or nothing proposition.
Well, if it's just a request, then there's nothing to "fight"... just ignore it.
If they up the ante, however, and DO move forward with legal action, I think they'd be SCREWED.
Just imagine such a letter arriving at Harvard, and specifically in the hands of the legal profs.
"This term's special project is to assist in the legal defence of this action brought on by the RIAA.."
Next thing you know, you've got a WHOLE BUNCH of 1st to 4th year headaches coming your way, and you may get an initial "devil's advocate" teaching approach that may end up haunting the RIAA if the results have the merit and mommentum to become law.
Never mind the whole "old boys network" coming to the plate.
I don't agree with ripping off music, but I also think that the RIAA has to target the end-users... not the providers. The only way that colleges should be held responsible is if their gear (internal web servers, etc., not their network services) is hosting a repository of tunes. It should NOT be the responsibility of an ISP (commercial or college) to ensure that their services are NOT being used for illegal P2P transactions... all the investigation and leg work should be done by the RIAA.
It's not like Ma Bell is responsible for making sure that drug deals are not being done with their phone systems, so why should ISP's be any different?
Slashdot Mirror
Also, there are SOME projects that don't even have a budget so they don't show up on the radar screen, if you know what I mean.
The costs for these "other" projects are absorbed and hidden by other purchases in some cases.
This means that when they're paying $1,000 for a $20 hammer, they're only paying $20 for the hammer, and the rest is being used elsewhere.
If NPR was broadcasting from a posh, gold-leaf lined building instead of a dank, 60's era broadcasting cast offs then I would be a little more sympathetic.
I hear ya. It reminds me of the wife of the ex-CEO of Enron on Larry King that night when she was in tears because she couldn't even imagine how they were going to survive on their "last 20 million dollars". Didn't see THEM start up a "save the C's (CEO, CFO, etc.) at Enron" fund.
Salon was STUPID with their money, so they get to reap the consequences.
Who knows how will this unnecessary abuse will reflect on their adulthood ?
;)
I have to laugh at this a bit, because it reminds me of two instances of when I met high-school bullies 15 years after the fact.
Some background: I was a year younger than most of the kids in school. I was overweight, yet coordinated. (I could never beat someone on a one-on-one layup, but could shoot 3-pointers like nobody's business, and was a pitcher for our city's rep baseball team). I was also kind of smart... math club (it was fun), chemistry club (access to cool explosive stuff), ran the high school's mainframe (sold copies of provincial exams that I "acquired"), etc. I was also a pilot (Canadian Air Cadets), and ended up becoming an instructor. I didn't like school, and it was just the place I went because I had to. I always thought that people who said it was the "best times of their life" were sad and/or pitiful.
Needless to say, a couple of other guys were pretty insecure and ended up picking on a bunch of people, me included. It never bugged me, and only once did it turn into a physical altercation. (It was funny, as I ended up breaking his arm... he didn't quite clue into the fact that I was 50 pounds heavier than him, and yet still in somewhat decent shape with excellent reflexes).
So, flash forward to 15 years later, at an ATM in my home town. There's this little short guy (5' 6") standing in front of me, balding, glasses, maybe 140lbs soaking wet. I'm 5'8", 240lbs. He looks up, recognizes me, but can't place the face. "Do I know you?", he asks. "Yep. We went to high school together. You're Mike Smith". With that, he kind of gets a little uncomfortable and embarrassed, and goes, "you're... Jeff?" "Yup". "Wow. You got big." You see, while he had got married, had the 2.3 kids and bought the mini-van, I'd gone to a Military College (for Comp. Eng.) and played national rugby. He didn't. I grew up, got in shape. He didn't. At that point, all he could remember was how he used to bully me in high school. He looked VERY uncomfortable. Man, did I laugh at that.
Then there was the captain of our football team. I was CTO of a company that was in the final stages of having a new building built, and we ordered a semi-trailer full of office furniture. I was there going over the network/electrical systems with the on-site foreman when the shipment arrived, and the guy driving the truck looks familiar. It was the captain of the team. Talk about a little bit of a turn-around from the days of high school! We chatted, and it turned out that he was in the middle of a divorce, only had part time work. In short, his life was really sucking, and I felt for the guy. He asked what we did at the company, and I told him how we were a record company, and I was responsible for all the technology for bands like Sarah McLachlan, Bryan Adams, Lilith Fair, etc, and some of the really cool things we got to do. It almost seemed like he finally realized that he'd made a mistake not concentrating on his academics. (Personally, I think you have to have a well-balanced education that includes sports/social events as well as academics)
Now, at the end of the day, it doesn't matter how smart you are, it's all about social interaction. You can be dumber than a stump, the smartest guy on the planet, a jock, or not, and you can still be a condescending asshole that draws "unwanted" or "undesireable" attention.
Mind you, I can't WAIT to go to my 20 year reunion!
Gee, maybe I have some issues of my own, you think?
The only thing that I had to deal with was the fact that my Logitech mouse and keyboard preferences were reset to their factory defaults. (specifically the custom button assignments were all reset).
I'm not sure if this is really because of the update, but I can't think of anything else that I did that might have caused it...
Worked the first time, I'm sure it will again.
;)
Yeah, but this time, it'll probably be Apple doing the suing.
That may be true but HP is not Sun. When I worked in a Sun shop if we had a hardware problem the techs were on-site WITH the parts they needed in under an hour. It was pretty much the same with the Cisco support contract we had.
:)
I'll say!
I've dealt with HP, Sun, and Cisco tech support, and HP is by FAR the worst. (I've had nothing but AWESOME tech support from Cisco and Sun).
We've had issues with Cisco and Sun gear where there were some crazy-assed weird shit going on, and in a matter of a couple of hours, we were talking to some VERY senior guys that REALLY knew their shit. We also had replacement parts en-route in 45 minutes, and on-site and installed in under 3 hours... and this wasn't even Platinum support!
With HP, we called and filed a report, and the first response we got back was from their customer feedback centre, asking how we found dealing with their engineers and how we liked their resolution process.
Needless to say, they were a little quiet on the other end of the phone while we were laughing, saying "you've got to be kidding me, right?" and informed them that we hadn't even had our first call-back from tech support yet.
So, after finally getting the tech support guy on the phone, running some diagnostics on our box, he concluded that the problem was a faulty motherboard. He scheduled an on-site visit for the next day to replace the motherboard. This was day 5, and we had a "2 day on-site" support contract with them.
Anyway, the guys shows up the next day, and gee... guess what he forgot to bring with him? You guessed it... no motherboard. Rescheduled for the next day, which was then postponed because now the MB had to be shipped in from Toronto (we were in Vancouver).
Needless to say, 10 days (8 business) later, we had it replaced and functioning. 2 months later, we replaced the WHOLE HP box with a Sun.
The only bright side was that the "customer feedback" guys never called back.
Here here!
I, too, am a small business owner, and have much the same policies in place.
We ended up firing a receptionist because she complained that her brand new iMac didn't have any hard drive space left, and she needed a new one.
One of our Sys Admins came into my office with this stupid "you ain't gonna believe this" kind of look on his face, and proceded to explain to me that after looking into her problem/request, found over 11GB (yes that's ELEVEN GIGS!) of space used on her machine to store MP3's. These MP3's were downloaded at work, using software that is NOT allowed on our internal systems (as per the employment agreement and Internet usage terms she'd signed when she was hired).
We "slapped her wrists", and a month later performed a spot check on the system, and she was already back up to 2GB of MP3's.
She didn't even have to take her coat off when she next came to work... she was out the door.
People don't seem to realize that there are financial consequences to doing this, never mind the legal liabilities.
People don't seem to understand that it COSTS MONEY to download, store, and backup that data.
Now, we believe in music (hell, I've been a musician for over 25 years, and have done "high tech" in the music industry for at least half of that), so much so that we hand out iPods when people pass their probationary period, and just about everyone understands the justifications for the policies we have in place.
I'm proud to say that we have extremely awesome employees who actually GET IT. That's quite refreshing in today's society where people have such an over-inflated sense of entitlement.
Poster? Come ON! We _ALL_ know he's a /. EDITOR!
I find it rather interesting to see techs whose main criticism of a mac is its price, quoting the difference between a top G4 and a top PC they've built themselves, with price differences in the low few thousands... ...And then see them driving a $30,000 car they spend less than an hour in each day.
It's priorities. Occasionally I spend upwards of 10-14 hours a day in front of my mac. It gets -used-, it affects me, and I want to be comfortable with it.
I _SOOO_ agree. I have a software development company with about 12 employees, and we ALL work from home about 90% of the time. Friends and relatives look at me strange when they see the coin I spend on my work environment at home. $3k for a custom desk that has everything I need, where I want it. $1k for a chair (Herman Miller Aeron). $4k for a 22" mac Cinema Display for my top-end powerBook. The list goes on and on.
A lot of them have comments like "wow, you like all the toys, don't you". Guess what? They're NOT toys!
A couple of developers came over to my place the other day and one of them used my system for about half an hour. His comment was "Wow... I could work ALL DAY here without a problem! That's a sweet setup!" As a result, he's started to invest some of his own cash into a more pleasant work environment himself.
There ya go... I _DO_ spend LOTS of time at that setup... more than I spend with my fiance, in my car, wherever. No only is it my job, it's also one of my hobbies. And I'll tell you straight up that it's much more effective and efficient time spent because of the "toys".
I love that... "hey kids, those potato gun things are WAY too dangerous for you! Don't try it, but THESE things are WAY more destructive!"
Ya gotta wonder.
Do English-speaking people receive spam in foreign languages?
I have an email address that is used exclusively for the Bugtraq mailing list over at securityfocus, and funnily enough, out of about 30 spams a day it gets, 50% are from some 163.com company based in China, and the other half are from Nigeria (the whole "please help us get millions of dollars out of the country" scam).
I was always kind of curious as to the response the Nigerian guys got from a security-based mail-list.
One of the funniest examples of "testing hard drive g-force endurance" was a review I read for MacAddict or MacReview (or some other Mac rag), where the writer was testing defrag software.
For the hell of it, he started the defrag process, threw the laptop into a backpack, and then went mountain biking for the afternoon.
He ended up fracturing a rib due to a wipeout, but the laptop, and it's drive, came out just fine.
They told me CIBC was the only one affected.
They lied... not only was the Royal Bank's Interact down, but their web-site came back with an "error" page.
As well, the clerk at Chapters said that RBC said they had a "virus" when they called to ask what was going on.
I was really quite surprised that the Bank would say such a thing... assuming that's what was really said.
I don't understand how the Segway, which weighs 69lbs can be safer than a skateboard, or rollerblades.
Dude... I'm a 275lbs rugby player that can't roller-blade for shit. Trust me when I say that ANY segway accident will be WAY safer than me "losing it" on my blades!
There's an old con-artist saying:
"You can't cheat an honest man."
I also thing that "thinning of the herd" is somewhat appropriate as well.
You HAVE eaten hotdogs haven't you? Same difference.
A friend of mine used to love hotdogs, before he started working in a meat processing plant that made them.
When I asked him why he looks sick at even thinking about eating a hotdog now, all he says is "well, let's just say that they're a greyish/white paste before they put the food colouring in, OK?".
*shudder*
The other thing we have going for us is that the cost of the software is less than $10,000 so that means that it's not THAT big of a deal if support for it goes away. It's not like a company is likely to base their entire business around our product.
At the end of the day, escrow is reasonable risk management for the situation.
Luckily, we're in Canada, so the rules are a little bit different.
:)
See reply elsewhere in thread.
Luckily, we're in Canada, so the rules are slightly different.
And, there ARE restrictions as to what the end-user is allowed to do with that code.
They can support/develop all they want for their own uses, but can't resell anything to do with it.
Both our and the customer's legal teams have gone over everything and are happy with it, so it seems to work.
I'm the CTO of a software development company called Intellinger.
We're young, new on the block, and competing against some big fish in the performance monitoring space.
One of the biggest issues we have is trying to placate potential customers that are worried about us going out of business and leaving them with un-supported code.
To get around this, we've put copies of source code, with docs, build environments/scripts, etc., in escrow. This way, if we DO go down in flames, all registered license holders of our software are entitled to complete access to EVERYTHING required to support the software themselves.
This keeps our investors happy, our customers happy, and us, the developers, happy. There's NO WAY IN HELL that our investors, or me, for that matter, would condone or support making our entire product OS. We've spent a couple of years working on this thing, and we'd like to get some benefit out of it.
There is an infrastructure (that we call Brazil) that will probably be put into open source in about 6 months, but the customized/specialized modules that plug into it that we've developed will NOT be made OS.
Obviously, our position could change in the future, but for now, it's not an all or nothing proposition.
All I can say is "holy fucking shit that is WAY cool".
She should be working for NASA or something.
the other one already had the screen shots yanked
And here I thought that they's changed the BSOD to the WSOD (White Screen of Death)
Charlie Sheen said it best, when caught using the services of Heidi's stable of pro's:
*sigh* Don't quite know how it relates, but man, it's the truth!
I was thinking he could just make a small graphic that had the word CD-R in it... No way to 'search' on that.
I wouldn't be so sure that the technology doesn't or wouldn't soon exist.
(not meant as a troll, just a thought).
but do you really think colleges will fight this?
:)
Yes.
Well, if it's just a request, then there's nothing to "fight"... just ignore it.
If they up the ante, however, and DO move forward with legal action, I think they'd be SCREWED.
Just imagine such a letter arriving at Harvard, and specifically in the hands of the legal profs.
"This term's special project is to assist in the legal defence of this action brought on by the RIAA.."
Next thing you know, you've got a WHOLE BUNCH of 1st to 4th year headaches coming your way, and you may get an initial "devil's advocate" teaching approach that may end up haunting the RIAA if the results have the merit and mommentum to become law.
Never mind the whole "old boys network" coming to the plate.
I don't agree with ripping off music, but I also think that the RIAA has to target the end-users... not the providers. The only way that colleges should be held responsible is if their gear (internal web servers, etc., not their network services) is hosting a repository of tunes. It should NOT be the responsibility of an ISP (commercial or college) to ensure that their services are NOT being used for illegal P2P transactions... all the investigation and leg work should be done by the RIAA.
It's not like Ma Bell is responsible for making sure that drug deals are not being done with their phone systems, so why should ISP's be any different?