Slashdot Mirror
Windows Longhorn Screenshots Available Online
The Fred writes "I found this website that seems to have screenshots for the next version of windows. Everything from a new start button, extended task bar, display options, .NET capability, and a bigger clock." Fair number of UI changes, some good, mostly irrelevant, but it's interesting. Wonder if it's real.
It's ALREADY slashdotted. Can't we do something about this? Couldn't they have hosted the shots on the slashdot server?
TechCritic
Don't worry folks, it is real. A friend of a friend of a friend type deal ia getting it and I've seen it running. It looks pretty sweet.
Since its as slow as windows is heres the mirrors they list on the page with all the graphics (huh?) http://www.icrontic.com/modules.php?op=modload&nam e=Sections&file=index&req=viewarticle&artid=112&pa ge=1
f ile=article&sid=358&mode=&order=0&thol d=0
http://www.tech-critic.com/modules.php?name=News&
but they slow as well...
http://www.kde-look.org/content/preview.php?file=3 625-1.jpg&PHPSESSID=a7685445ac3f09d1af9e5f85ba960d 33
...will be useful to those trying to keep track of their .NET fees and licensing renewals.
This is my post. There are many others like it. If you don't like what you read here, go try one of the others.
Who cares about the UI ... someone needs to do something about theses servers ;)
"In other news today, the launch of Microsoft's new conceptual OS, 'Longhorn', was brought to a screetching halt. A band of rebel hackers known only as 'slashdot' has taken measures to stop this OS from ever seeing the light of day. By using advanced DDoS techniques, the rebels have brought the server to its knees, preventing further interest from the public."
There is no reasonable defense against an idiot with an agenda
:wq
Avaialble Here.
To bad it is slashdoted after 5 min.
I seem to be getting the remnants of the website and it's pointing to two mirrors. Obviously, the original website is having problems catering to slash-traffic, so it's best if you go to the other two sites instead.
As for additions, there seem to be a funky looking clock and a program list on the side. Nice addition, if you ask me, getting sick of the Start button myself...
More than mere navel gazing.
The interface looks nice, but it may be somewhat inefficent. This news isn't very important.
Because we all know that the instant e17 is finally released, all the Sawmill/fish and *box people will return to the true path.
As for e17's status, it's quite usable, but the e16 pager has yet to be duplicated, and I find myself quite fond of said pager.
i'm using one of the mirrors that have been posted about 12 times already.
About 3/4 down the page is a shot of the "My Pictures" directory. Check out the "bluejeans.jpg" photo as well as the upper left corner of "winbetalogo.gif"
Microsoft probably won't put in any significant look and feel changes until much later in the testing program, probably someplace around beta 3. I'd say it's very likely they'll try and hold something impressive back until then, to help keep the hype machine cranking away.
But screw it, maybe by the time Longhorn comes out, I'll be able to have gotten myself a Mac desktop and won't care about Windows. The only thing making me hope for a death of PC gaming is the fact it's the last thing really keeping the machine on my desk a Windows one.
My own pointless vanity vintage computing page
I'll just try and save a little time for the trolls. ...
1) Imagine a beowulf cluster of these.
2)
3) PROFIT!!!!!!
w1nd0wz sUx0Rz!!!
umm did I miss anything?
Happy Noodle Boy says "F###ing doughnut! Mock me? You fried cyclops!!"
Addition: Icrontic has yanked the screenshots off on Microsoft's request. My wishes to the good folks at tech-critic, let's see how long you last.
More than mere navel gazing.
Is it just me, or is the screen just as cluttered as CNN at any given moment? I keep expecting the MS stock quote to slide accross the screen...
As a computer scientist, that is an interesting aspect of longhorn I'd like to investigate for it's technically stimulating intrinsic value.
Who mediates your information?
Why pay for something you can get for free? Notice the Unix-like multiple desktops?
Could you guys link to the URL with the ADVERTS, rather than the frame. The poor guys have to pay for their bandwidth somehow. It even asks you to expressly do that at the bottom of the page. Cruel cruel people...
s200.org - visit it (me), love it (me).
I wonder what's fastest in removing content from the internet, the Slashdot effect or Microsoft.
It appears that Microsoft finally has seen the light, as these screenshots clearly show virtual desktops being supported (and used) directly from the the os..
--
\ Christian A Strømmen
Did anyone notice that in one of the screenshots Bjork is holding a camera. If she's in it, it must be a stable and secure operating system.
Since its as slow as windows... ... someone needs to do something about theses servers
Who cares about the UI
The interface looks nice, but it may be somewhat inefficent. This news isn't very important.
Somehow, it is Slashdotted... Go figure!!!
I'd rather be sailing...
You just got to love google!
"... .NET capability, and a bigger cock"
Err, I read that WAY wrong. "Yeah, Windows Longhorn sports a bigger cock, to fuck its users harder..."
the real at&t mix
JWZ's Law Of Software Envelopment states that all programs expand until they can read mail.
I posit a corollary, the Law Of GUI Envelopment: all windows will eventually be round.
Aqua has rounded corners. Now XP does. What, do they think they sharp edges might hurt someone?
ZOMG I WOULD LOVE TO KNOW ABOUT YOUR FEELINGS ON MACINTOSH VERSUS WINDOWS, VI VERSUS EMACS, AND HOW YOU'RE NOT A DORK
When I saw that the first thing I thought of was a rabid dog.
All three of the officially listed mirrors linked from the story are either down or carrying a line "screenshots removed at microsoft's request."
Bummer
.. otherwise it's pretty painfull for the eye, searching for 'longhorn' on google...
Never underestimate the relief of true separation of Religion and State.
It is still in beta, but the link already shows us the year: windows2004. So they still have more than a year to work on it...
The site where: "I'm right, as long as you ignore the things that prove me wrong", became a valid method of debate.
Those screenshots are fake! Look at the name in the background.
- "Windows Longhorn XP"? Microsoft always use names like "Windows Longhorn ".
- Look at the expiration date. A beta that lasts for a year? Impossible.
- "MSN Messenger 5.0" in the start menu. MSN Messenger has been renamed to Windows Messenger since WinXP!
I saw the idea in use at a bank (based on OS2 of all systems) and it does work well for the majority of users that do only routine tasks. Hence I try to go task based in software that I write, though I have users that like more desktop like power and flexibility.
In the bank context the tasks that can be done are specifically limited anyway. I notice though that some of the tasks, such as buying prints of photos, seem a case of subtle revenue streams for MS' partners.
Maybe it's just Redhat trying to add windows to it's KDE / Gnome mishmash... blah.
girl
Apparently, Windows is adding a stock photography Kernel Extension, this will take the hassle out of showing fake images on a royalty free basis, in addition it only uses 256 MB of DDR ram. thankfully, it is always enabled and has a nice quick start icon for you. yum yum.
maybe this will make the registry suck less monkey balls? just kidding, no amount of good photography will do that!
"You never want a serious crisis to go to waste." - Rahm Emanuel
XBetas has some.
Letse, theres an equivalent of Xclock now,
and the commonly used apps are integrated into the panel, I mean "menubar"...
Microsoft(TM) - We do the hard work so you don't have to
"- "Windows Longhorn XP"? Microsoft always use names like "Windows Longhorn "."
(forgot Slashdot strip HTML tags)
What I mean is, names like "Windows [Codename] [Build ID]", such as "Windows Longhorn Build 1678578236785"
Those screenshots just can't be real. They're true usability nightmares. An extra panel that duplicates the Start Menu's function? Totally unintuitive and confusing! Look at Windows Explorer, it's cluttered as hell. Not even Microsoft UIs can be that bad.
Microsoft Lawyer #2 Just post their URLs to Slashdot, that will take care of 'em!
Microsoft Lawyer #1 Sweeeeet!
Anyone else take note of the 7th icon on the screeners? "Fix-It" heh :)
Gotta love it.
I've seen some of these on a warez board right about the time that HP & MS announced that they were releasing a "media center pc" that ran a version of windows called "Windows XP Media Center". MS even has a page for it: http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/mediacenter/def ault.asp
I got the impression that Windows XP Media Center was being released just in time for the holidays. I also had the impression that Longhorn was being released in another year or so. So, why do some screenshots have Windows Media Center Version - Longhorn. It's gotta be either one, not both - right?
Woooow... Where can I get bluejeans.jpg as seen in the "my Pictures" screen shot?
Slashdot posts some screenshots taken from an early beta of a 'who knows when it's released, if ever'-Microsoft Operating System, and what do you think will happen?
:)
a) The server with the images won't receive a lot of hits through Slashdot, since no Linux user is interested in screenshots of a future Microsoft OS ("It's probably V4p0r anyway")
b) The server gets slashdotted 3 minutes after the posting went up, because almost every user visiting the homepage of slashdot is interested in screenshots of a future Microsoft OS.
I guessed a), but... gosh... b) is the right answer. I wonder why though..
Never underestimate the relief of true separation of Religion and State.
Is it me or it's not that different looking from XP?
:)
Sorry I don't get that crazy for new OS GUIs these days unless there is some radical change.
And that clock, my gosh, it's bigger than the one on my wrist.
Oh and by the way, I guess I gotta update my DOS 1985 now!
So, besides the systray, task bar buttons, icons on the desktop and the start menu we have *another* way to "quickly" get to applications and documents? Pretty soon we'll need a quick launch bar for the quick launch bars.
FWIW, I think winbeta.org posted these screenshots and movies of the new OS in action (to quiet the naysayers) about 2 or 3 weeks ago. Now it looks like they've had some sort of datawipe as of 10/30 (but I imagine some form of them are still available on their IRC channel - I'll leave that to someone else to confirm or deny). As I understand it Icrontic had them and was asked to remove them. For anyone that cares to try, the old link was here. *shrug*
A few things that are clearly out of whack here - some of the screenshots have inconsistent antialiasing of text for one, which often happens when screenshots are photoshopped. The artwork is hilarious, some of the title bars have gradients but the minimize/close/restore boxes don't, making them stick out like a sore thumb.
Why are the hard disk sizes measured in KB when everything else in Windows is megabytes? Why does some of the text overlap the borders of the containing window (an api impossibility). The last screenshot is just taking the piss totally, this version of Windows won't install on that version of DOS? That's not even trying to be real.
Look, guys, if you want screenshots of cool new features that you know are genuine, look at the stuff the Linux teams post - if they're real you can get them soon, if they're faked they always tell you. This kind of slobbering over crude mockups gives Microsoft a bad name.
I don't understand why people call Windows XP or Longhorn or whatever new version of Windows "userfriendly". Look at the screenshots!
There's now some kind of sidebar which duplicates the functions of the Start menu ---> confusing to new users.
If you open Windows Explorer and check My Computer, you get a complex screen with buttons, icons and progress bars.
If you go to My Documents you get overloaded with options! Any new user will get confused by that!
Not to mention all the eyecandy. Sure, it looks nice, but all those gradients and icons do is overload the user with information. New users will get confused and will have a hard time recognizing standard controls.
The entire UI is extremely cluttered.
The Longhorn GUI is good for advanced users, but will confuse new users! If GNOME or KDE do this, the Windows people will flame us down for creating a "hacker desktop" that's "not consistent" and "overloads the user with too much information". But if Windows does this, it's suddenly allright and called "huge improvements" or "innovation".
I just don't get it...
Steers and crappy software.
According to the screenshots, not only longhorn is going to take around 2GB (extrapolation from XP family edition), but it's going to take 1600x1200 to write 20 lines in notepad or view 6 folders in a directory list... Such an improvement in usability, I cheerfully thank microsoft for its innovations.
The actual images are at
...where the n before the .JPG are integers from 1 to 10.
http://home.attbi.com/~mrwatchdawg_01/n.JPG
"Backups are for wimps. Real men upload their data to an FTP site and have everyone else mirror it." -- Linus Torvalds
Wow! Multiple Desktops. Now Windows will have what my Linux box has had since I started using linux (about 5 years ago). Way to stay ahead of the technology curve there, Bill.
Im pretty sure that the yellow rubber duck is the same as in Mac OS 9...
I fought the corporate America, and the corporate America bought the law.
or do these screens look like some sort of Gnome/KDE/X rip off? Let's see, we have here multiple desktops, panels and some kind of ugly theme... yeah! really new, revolutionary as always.
Well if it ain't broke......
thank God the internet isn't a human right.
PORT KDE TO WINDOWS!
Gnome Operating System is far better than Windows Operating System. Hey why don't you simply try BlackBox Operating System ?
Could some explain to me the meaning of this code name Longhorn? I mean, look at thier logo! Just two red horns. Maybe they have finally realised who Billy really is.
I've mirrored the longhorn images.
techcriticex.JPG
roadmap.jpg
the tech-critic one, though it's a bit slow.
/. it *too* much, 'cause this is running off a cable modem. =)
:-( Don't have the money for a real webserver, or the time to install Apache.
I'm setting up my own mirror, please don't
IIS 5.1 (patched) on XP Pro, so sorry folks, only 10 connections.
Sorry for the popups, they're from the original site.
And now, the URL: *drumroll*
here
I finaly got them up, they are clearly fake and the folk saying 'it looks more like Mac' are clearly speaking through their trousers.
The screenshots look like Windows XP with a very small number of minor tweaks, a new clock and some bars showing how much of the disk is used. Both look like something you could add with photoshop. The main way they make it look different is that they put the menu bar at the side of the screen - the way most Microsofties seem to do. It actually does seem to work better on the side but I don't think the usability folk would move it. But the bar is clearly fake because it duplicates the functions already there in the start bar, you can drag and drop shortcuts to applications and use them as quicklaunch buttons already. Microsoft conceal this feature from ordinary users by describing it in the manual.
Other indications that scream fake include the fact that most of the shots come up 'XP Professional'. I have never seen a Microsoft beta that mentioned or used the codename. Longhorn would be NT7 (2000 is NT5, XP is NT6). The most likely name for Longhorn would be Windows.NET
Looking for an Information Security student project suggestion?
Try http://dotcrimeManifesto.com/
does anyone know any fun details about what is new to longhorn other than a design of the ui? i could be wrong, but isnt multiple desktops a unix invented thing? i can't believe that ms is actually using ui tidbits from unix enviros!
What's WRONG with you people!?!?!?
I like Blackbox with the NYZ theme so anything that doesn't present a plain black screen is just plain ugly and busy.
This is available in Windows XP as a PowerToy.
Looks like Microsoft have 'switched'.
My personal favorite is a little icon on the left-hand side with the title "Fix It". I couldn't help but thinking - "Yeah I've got a fix for you...".
That and it seems as though they've managed to elmininate more desktop space. Brilliant. I didn't want to do work there anyway. And the multiple desktops are nice. They're running neck-and-neck with CDE now! Woo-Hoo!
Computer Science is Applied Philosophy
Is this a coincidence or what? the gnu is a "Longhorn" animal as well. Even their logo looks like the gnu.org logo to me.
That *BSD was found dead in Steven King's apartment!
Hard to say whether or not these are real. They seem to mimic supposedly real screenshots that were put out over a year ago. I don't really want to see static screenshots, though. That's not where the real differences should be. Microsoft is moving to make DirectX the core graphics library of Windows (GDI is currently, and that's 15 years old.) With DirectX they can add all sorts of wacky graphical effects.
Who cares what it looks like? As long as it doesn't work!
Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
New startbutton?
Well, they have to change something to motivate people to buy the new os.
Even if we presume that these images haven't been put through Photoshop--which, as others have mentioned, seems to be in evidence--then there's still no proof, without showing some actual new functionality of Windows besides how it looks, that it's not fake.
After all, there are a number of utilities out there already that change the look and feel of Windows. Between some of those and a program like Photoshop, one could very well produce 'screenshots' of anything one could conceive.
Okay: I found a working (chinese) mirror:- 10-29/812 755.htm
e CdIJ: it.21cn.com/software/wangluo/2002-10-29/812755.htm +tech+critic+longhorn&hl=en&ie=UTF-8
:)
http://it.21cn.com/software/wangluo/2002
and the google cache of it:
http://216.239.51.100/search?q=cache:4aJt252
Just in case
the new version is called Longhorn. Does this mean it has "mad cow disease" when it's totally infested with virii like klez? I've never seen a version of Windows that could refrain from infesting itself in various ways, lending a whole new meaning to the word "promiscuity"
LOL
C|N>K
http://www.rtcwclans.com/longhorn.pdf is the only mirror i've found that still has it. If they take it away and anyone wants to see the pics, email me at pilot1@users.sourceforge.net and i'll email you the pdf file.
this was a fantastic article! :)
I just got mine on gnutella! ;P
UT Austin should sue the crap out of 'em.
Is Microsoft worried about competition?
When will Microsoft learn? The many arbitrary and unjustified changes they make in the UI with every new release serve only to confuse and annoy their existing customers. How happy would you be if GM decided to move the gas and brake pedals in every new car design? It's ridiculous and it hurts productivity. And Microsoft wonders why people don't feel inclined to upgrade their OS? Here's a clue: people don't want to throw away their hard earned knowledge without substantial benefits from learning something new. This is especially true for system administrators who have already memorized the arcane, and fundamentally arbitrary, rituals involving clicking through 99 layers of tabbed dialogs and wizards to get access to the desired tidbit of configuration info. Want to configure <feature x>? Oops. Sorry. We moved that. Go fish.
http://61.175.211.198/vdown/newsinfo/win2004bet
http://www.tech-critic.com/modules.php?name=New
http://www.icrontic.com/modules.php?op=modload&
http://www.xbetas.com/modules.php?name=News&fil
>:-( Don't have the money for a real webserver, or the time to install Apache.
But Apache is easier to install on Windows than IIS!!!? I tried installing IIS and it took half an hour, thrashed the hard drive and CD ROM, and when I tried to uninstall it Windows was never stable until I re-installed Windows.
Please, try Apache. You will be pleasently surprised!
I mean, where the hell is the BSOD?
my last sig was too controversial... now, a new and improved useless sig!
Not only is beowulf non-DOS, but think of this:
Assuming that longhorn bluescreens once a week(I'd bet on 1 a day or more), and that you have 168(7*24) boxes in the cluster. One would need to fix a bluescreen at least once an hour.
In all honesty, I would rather work in winshit NT 4, whose bluescreen is @$#@$ing long and complicated that it makes me think that they expect me to decompile the source code and fix it! Then winshit NT 5 just told users to come crying to the sysadmin. Winshit NT 5.1 just pretends that nothing is wrong, standing there doing nothing and not responding. With its partially redrawn windows it is far from the silent dignified hanging of DOS. Will longhorn be another $300 for 5.2!? It's no surprise that I've been on Linux for years.
You can't judge a book by the way it wears its hair.
The truly important issue is what will the Longhorn Blue Screen of Death look like? After all, that's what most people will be seeing most of the time!
Teen Angel - a Ghost Story
Look at the installer screenshot, it shows "DOS 1985". Last time I checked hardware manufacturers stopped making drivers for DOS 8+ years ago.
The About Windows box says "Expires 25-9-2002", it expired over a month ago.
Bottom right hand corner of the screen says the version number and "Media Center Edition" but in the System Properties it says "Professional".
The System properties says MS Longhorn XP Professional 2003 but the blue installer says "MS Windows Longhorn 2004"
..that with every release of NT since Win2k, the start button/menu has gotten bigger and bigger while getting more and more klunky and useless? I mean look at the default start menu for XP...takes up a good chunk of the screen and only has a small fraction of the useful entries that a Win2K start menu has. .NET server is even worse.
...a hard time seeing the Longhorn screenshots, you can get the gist by checking out the OS X page.
Several people have said that these "screen shots" are obvious Photoshop, and so "fake".
But, perhaps they are "real" UI design concepts? After all, when you design a UI like this, you let the "designers" play with pictures before rendering it all into code... Just like web design...
I'm a Microsoft employee, and I'd like to say that first off, these images are real, yet they show nothing about what Longhorn's intentions are. I've seen live demos of Longhorn at work, and read internal documents on what Longhorn will have to offer, and I can tell you it's going to be awesome. The biggest problem with it, however, is that it will require a huge amount of resources, and will most likely require a 3D graphics card. I'm not sure how much more i can say about it, so ill stop right here. Linux is awesome, but Windows knows what people want, through intensive research, and dedicates their OS to the lay-men, the intellectual workers, not just the computer-savvy population.
Your coffee's ready!! You know how you are till you've had your caffine!
Hey, my old computer still has Windows 98SE, and it is still leaking RAM going on 4 years now.
---
When you come to a fork in the road, take it! --Yogi Berra--
Did anyone else think WM+OSX when they saw those screen shots?
And don't they have "user interface designers" or somesuch there? Those colors are icky, not to mention all those differing window styles are confusing!
I live in a giant bucket.
Fortunately, the net is global and tech-critic.com is registered to some guys in Australia. With some luck the standard US-law based cease-and-desist letter does not bear any significance down under.
I am sure MS would like to take care of that with a daisy cutter, but thankfully the US military is curently kinda preoccupied with some other guy...
+++ath0
Yeah some of the added parts are decent, so what? It's still NT. You can expect the same "wonderful" problems that have plauged every M$ OS.
If they are, well, Windows took KDE, mixed with Aqua, and then spat on it so it'd be ugly.
If it's a fake...bravo to the faker. they must be laughing their ass off...
Did anyone notice, on the screenshot of Internet Explorer, displaying the About window, the line that says
.. that just doesnt smell right.. seems to me that that should be something you'd only see on XPsp1, or 2kSP1..or am I missing something..
Update Version:;SP1;
Why would they have SP1 installed on this "Longhorn" Preview?
I'm a little tea pot.
Um - if they have access to Longhorn betas, why are they still using office 2k? If this is a Longhorn BETA - why does it have IE 6.05 SP1 - why would there be a SP for software that hasn't gone gold yet. IE6.05 isn't even gold yet - and will probably be IE7 or IE.NET. For the screen that shows IE6.05 SP1 - the IE minimize/close/restore buttons are too high - if you're going to fake the buttons - at least line them up before you publish your fake. Media player is still v8 - okay, v9 isn't gold yet. Oh - my favorite - SYSTEM TAB : Microsoft Longhorn XP Media Center Edition Version 2003 and the title logo shows Widnows XP Media Center Edition and a few Widnows Longhorn XP Professional yeah - this just screams fake Which product are you trying to fake XP or Longhorn
That one quirked a smile for me too... Does that come as part of the default content for "My Pictures" or was it added by somebody else just for fun.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
My, that looks a lot like Lycoris! :)
"Sometimes a woman is a kind of religion, she can save your soul & set you free from all your sins" - Bad Examples
The Microsoft reference releases are unstable enough, why the hell would you want to use a BETA? :P
Oh, so if it crashes, you can just say "hey, it's a beta" or something, right?
Hey look! Microsoft finally invented multiple desktops. I've been wondering when they were going to make that innovation.
i have a few doubts......
http://home.attbi.com/~mrwatchdawg_01/9-2.JPG shows the guy's my pictures folder with a burn dvd option.....which seems odd - i doubt he has a dvd burner installed as there is no mention
In the same pic u can also see his 'bits' of the wallpaper they've used - so i reckon he made it rather than it being official.....
In http://home.attbi.com/~mrwatchdawg_01/8.JPG see that orange line on the left....you would have thought the first UI thing MS would do is remove that orange line when the fancy top pane to the right isnt shown (like in the following pic)
And why is free space shown in kb, when everything else in windows uses mb/gb respectively?
http://home.attbi.com/~mrwatchdawg_01/7.JPG - look at the IE close/maximise etc buttons -- they've been stuck on, you can see it in other shots too and the spacing is different
Finally, the date on that 'clock' - says october 20 in some shots, then 20 october in others
I hope they are real.....but I have serious doubts
These pictures are fakes just in case anyone was making an ass of themselves. None of them line up on the right side of the picture. One of them doesn't show the multiple desktops currectly (doesn't show the windows, just the background). Others can't decide wheth it's October 20 or 20 October. Others can't decide in the same window whether anti-aliasing is on or not. Many things are not lined up.
This is a custom XP theming plus a bit of photoshop.
Multiple desktops have been in since, ummm, NT4, at least. Half the stuff that Microsoft 'comes out with' have actually been in the OS for years; just never bothered with. Half the features of NTFS, for example, are still unused; quotas are an example. 'Debuted' in Windows 2000, but were always a part of NTFS; just never bothered with.
Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
There's gotta be a nice easter-egg in there saying thanks to all the folks in the Bush administration for all their hard work in getting the DOJ CAVING IN. ;/
:)
Maybe the name "Longhorn" is their tribute, Texas Longhorn is the only "Longhorn" I've heard of.....
Didn't the Texas Longhorns eventually lose out to the current breed because the current breed MATURED quicker? Humm, Linux( the current breed ) and Windows( Longhorn ). Time for history to repeat itself IMHO.
LoB
"Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
I would define myself as an advanced user, and am using win2k and linux on a daily basis. Because I'm almost running Linux full time, I haven't really felt the need to upgrade to XP, which probably accounts for my unfamilliarity with the new "Luna" UI.
But seeing this almost makes me want to puke. Even though I've been using computers for decades, I wouldn't know where to begin in this UI. There seems to be redundancy all over the place, modes galore, and they seem to show/hide certain tasks/apps/files/settings/menu options completely at random.
I have to admit, maybe if I used it I would like it a bit better. But if I feel "overwhelmed" just by looking at one of the screenshots, how should a newbie user feel. (I seem to remember that when doing usability testing, they ask the subject to first look at the screen without touching anything, and then ask them what they think everything is for)
In contrast, Gnome2 seems to be moving in the right direction by simplifying ("make the simple things easy, the hard ones possible") and unifying as much as possible.
Same thing with MacOS: while the first releases of MacOSX were a step back in usability, they've been repairing the damage with the latest release. At the same time it's a good example of how unification really should work (see the iChat, iSync, iCal, Addressbook, Mail, iTunes integration)
Longhorn and XP seem to like confusion: let's do everything in all the ways everyone in the world might want, and stuff it in one interface. And let's do it all at thesame time too.
the Horror!
Multiple switchable desktops... Now where have I seen that before?
Do all versions of Longhorn come with BlueJeans.jpg??
Man Doesn't anyone notice that's MSN8???
Think winbeta could do something so stupid again! Anyone rember the new "mars" interfac for windows? How that's was suppsoed to revoultize everything? That turned out to be msn6. It's the same here!
Recall that loghorn video a while back? That was msn8 too.
I talked to some people at WinBeta, the alleged leakers of these SS's. And they seem to be sticking to their story. I guess we'll have to wait it out some more to find out if it's real. But frankly, I trust the guys at WinBeta.
-------
"In times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."
-- George Orwell
apparently i read that this version of windows only works with the new windows keyboard. it has built in cash and credit card slots for quick and easy payments.
My problem? I was perfectly gruntled, until some numbnuts came by and dissed me.
If these are real and were leaked by MS then why does the desktop have CuteFTP and Nero Burning Rom installed? I know plenty of /.'ers use Nero, but I just cant picture an MS employee using it. Maybe I'm just brainwashed?
This from someone who probably can barely find Texas on the map.
You ought to visit sometime, see how the breed that "lost out" is doing.
I keep expecting the MS stock quote to slide accross the screen...
'cause I'd love to see some Microsoft stock prices, leaked out many months ahead of time ; )
pi = 3.141592653589793helpimtrappedinauniversefactory7
Finally we all get bigger cocks with the OS so there's no more future for all those enlarge-your-penis e-mails. Oh, wait...
Free as in mason.
I heard a rumor (just that -- I don't have any verification) that M$ was planning to make Longhorn the first OS that wasn't paid for all upfront -- that M$ wanted monthly revenue like AOL. The (questionable) source told me the plans were to make Longhorn work on a monthly fee basis.
Has anyone heard anything about this? I'm not trying to start a rumor -- I'm trying to find out if this one is (as I would expect) ungrounded.
Strange.
I put the start button in that position in Windows 95 several years ago.
(Old picture.)
Those who sacrifice security to condemn liberty deserve to repeat history or something. - Benjamin Santayana
Sometimes slashdot amazes me! However, if this is from a Microsoft party, where do I apply?
J.
Yes, Microsoft's UI looks nice. Yes, Microsoft's UI's have looked nice since Windows Chicago Beta 1. The problem is that they don't do enough to the underlying structure to make the OS stable. My Slackware box, kludged together after the original install by upgrading without really following stuff out has had its shell in X running for about ninety days now without any problems. I have the Aqua-like themes for GTK and Sawfish running, and the thing is just sweet as can be in that regard.
I've never had Microsoft OSes, even 2000 or NT, remain up this long, when used as a userland machine.
*smile* I actually encourage Microsoft to continue to write new OSes, every year or two. This causes there to be no less than EIGHT 32bit Microsoft OSes actively in use, from those still running Windows 95 all the way through this new encantation, and with this much fragmentation, it'll only help to cause more and more strife, market confusion, broken 'standards', and non-upgrading by corporations and individuals, which has a significant chance of ultimately being what does Redmond in, rather than weak anti-trust enforcement and lack of acknowledgement by the community at large of the weaknesses of Microsoft's products (viruses, exploits, etc).
IBM had PL/1, with syntax worse than JOSS,
And everywhere the language went, it was a total loss...
I just love how the clock switches from saying "October 20" to "20 October" every few shots. Y'all got trolled.
Since most changes in free software seem to be dumb GUI changes (new icons in *every* *fucking* *release*?) I'd hesitate a bit before deriding other software for making "irrelevant gui changes".
And it is a simple one.
Microsoft never would say Windows Codename Longhorn.
They would say Windows Longhorn. Microsoft has never used the word "Codename" in any documentation nor in any releases in the past. Therefore it is faked.
RoundTop
Hmm, I didn't know that. Are they in any of the desktop versions of the OS (Win9X) by any chacne? I don't have any of the NT based ones and no intention of ever upgrading my windows box anymore, but I would like to get rid of alot of the desktop clutter.
sure kid, whatever you say... right.
;/
I've been through that state on a motorcycle during a cross-country trip. The only thing that stands out about Texas is that it was very boring, dry, and those darn butterflies made a mess on my forward profile.
BTW, I could care less how the Longhorn is doing or what it looks like. Both from Texas and Redmond. Never seen anything impressive from either but if you're excited about it, don't forget to wash when your done.
"Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
Doesn't that Longhorn logo look just a little over-the-top for Microsoft? Anyone remember if Microsoft has ever used a serif font? They're sans serif all the way. And what are those longhorns doing inside that funky clock? Finally, the double-printing of the word "Back" visible at the upper left corner of page 8 simply isn't possible unless this is a photo-composite. Which it assuredly is.
Perhaps someone's trying to take someone down a peg or two after Friday's world-class scoop on Microsoft?
I wonder if the submitter of the story, The Fred (no URL or e-mail), works for microsoft. I would think it would be a great sneaky, underhanded tactic for Microsoft to use if they believed the pictures to be leaked to the site that was posted. What I'm getting at here is that they found the pictures were leaked and what site it was on so instead of mailing the site and saying cease and desist they took the far more evil alternative and posted the site to slashdot. Knowing of course it was on a low bandwidth server. Thus taking the site down as well as burning the owners a bit. :)... just your daily conspiracy theory.
Who makes you Sig?
Yeah, I mean look at the first screen shot, the "The page cannot be displayed" one! It looks just like mine in WinXP! For a second there I thought it was /.ed, but then came to realize these were fakes!
Lots of rumours are talking about Longhorn, so many different ones, they all have to be fake. There was a demo, but that was long ago.
Sig: I stole this sig.
Wonder if it's real.
Real or not, it is already slashdotted
http://home.attbi.com/~mrwatchdawg_01/4.JPG
Macintosh humor! MacComedy.com
http://www.wininformant.com/Articles/Index.cfm?Art icleID=27038
/. is linking to; however, the screenshots from Winbeta are REAL.
Here's the Visual Style, ripped from the beta: http://plex.ike.bz/10.24.02.PlexXP.v.0.7.1.zip
There's even a movie of Longhorn being used...the #winbeta guys have it if you want to see it. Basically, it's WinXP with a new theme ("Plex") and a new filesystem ("WinFS," which everyone turns off because apparently it eats the CPU).
By the way:
"c) This is a BIG giveaway all over the place... The current user settings have font smoothing set to anti-alias, not cleartype or none. Anti-alias text does not come into play for small fonts including 8pt (as can be seen on dektop icons, start bar, etc). However, the new bar on the right IS anti-aliasing these fonts and not only that, but it's not using font hinting (aligning the text to the nearest pixel) which is standard for cleartype or anti-aliasing... it's fake text drawn in a graphics package."
Wrong--I'm running Sideshow, and it always smooths the fonts like that, whether Cleartype is on or not. I can't get to the site
Major changes I noticed, besides the new theme and Sideshow, is the new Display Properties dialog and a My Hardware dialog. Other than that, this look like what it is--a really early alpha leak for something not due out for another couple of years.
This is actually somewhat old news...I've been running Sideshow on my XP box with the ripped Plex theme for a week now. Visit #winbeta sometime. Sideshow's neat once you figure out how to add new tickets.
Already have WindowsXP, VisualC++.NET, cygwin on my 8 Gig NTFS partition. 86% capacity! Longhorn's going to set records for bloat.
Windows is finally starting to copy the GNOME / KDE / AQUA memes...
Methinks there needs to be an injuncture against longhorn.
I wonder how fundamentalist monotheists are going to feel about Microsoft putting a pagan temple (Stonehenge) on the wallpaper of their desktop, see: http://61.175.211.198/vdown/newsinfo/winbeta/2.jpg
it looks like the finally figured out something to the effect of gkrellm/wharf... jeez only took 'em 5 years.
screenshots (german site)
--- sig moved for great justice.
MacOSX's "lickable" interface was derided by some graphics designers as "too distracting." Apple responded by adding a grey scale color scheme-- which removed much of the gloss. Will there be a similarly muted interface available in Longhorn?
You know, you're completely right. I have been using Linux/*BSD/... for 5 years almost, no windows whatsoever, but nothing beats the look - or better, the quality of the look of Micro$oft's desktop. It's not really my taste, but I have to admit it looks damn beautiful.
:)
Luckily we (opensource-side) have more quality in software-coding (the performance of some of the more mature programs is just way better - it's not about selling, but about producing good software) and definately more stability. Because we are really lagging behind when it comes to intuitivity and niceness of the GUI... even something as basic as fonts.
The reason it looks so good, is because every little detail has been designed to fit in the look (next to superior anti-aliasing and fonts).
We need more not-geeks using linux. Micro$oft has hundreds (?) of people working on interface design, hiring specialized companies and designers for certain tasks (their core fonts, for instance)... Something that opensource can't do, really. So our only hope is that enough artistic people start helping opensource projects, and reach a common vision of consistent design throughout all of (Gnome's/KDE's/...) software.
The problem is that those arty people are seldom really interested enough in computers to spend their free time designing computerstuff. Or even just to learn to use linux (or a computer in general). Geeks and graphic design... it just doesn't add up (with a few exceptions that confirm the rule).
brings up quite a few images of Longhorn [google.com] (no, there isn't a "Here's a picture of a bull" here) Most have 'fake' in the filename.. but still interesting. They look pretty close to the shots from the article too.
There is no spork.
I read a couple of articles regarding these screenshots and it is quite clear that they are real but this means nothing.
Microsoft is currently experimenting new UI in top of the 2K/XP kernel and it's extremely likely that the final Longhorn UI will be very different.
Also Microsoft is supposed to work on a new UI that will use a Direct3D engine, it is supposed that this new UI will only be available to very high specced machines, so it's possible that there will be two new UIs, one standard that can run on "standard" hardware and one advanced that will require "Designed For Longhorn" hardware, for instance 128 mb or more equipped graphics cards.
Want multiple desktops? Then go get GoScreen (do a search on Google for it). It costs like $30 after a 30-day trial but is well worth it. Best $30 I've spent on a piece of software.
you press the 'exit' button?
Longhorn Shots
The screenshots are fake for the following reasons (this is XP with a custom theme and then some hacking around in an image editor)...
:-D
:-D
For the Setup screen...
a) In the window, horizontal bar at the top doesn't meet the right hand side.
b) Alpha plane gone on setup icon (definitely would NOT happen to one icon and not others).
c) This is a BIG giveaway all over the place... The current user settings have font smoothing set to anti-alias, not cleartype or none. Anti-alias text does not come into play for small fonts including 8pt (as can be seen on dektop icons, start bar, etc). However, the new bar on the right IS anti-aliasing these fonts and not only that, but it's not using font hinting (aligning the text to the nearest pixel) which is standard for cleartype or anti-aliasing... it's fake text drawn in a graphics package.
The sidebar as startmenu screen...
d) Looks nice, but examine the desktop images... no windows in the first one... later on they have images of the windows!
Sidebar on the right...
e) Where did the windows in the desktop image come from in this one ?
f) Aren't those icons on the bar a bit big compared with the later bars?
Display Properties screen (oh my god)...
g) Nice text antialiasing again (hmm)
h) 'You can change the image that appears on your windo...' ooops. Clipped that text a bit. Note this can't happen with the windows API when you have a multi-line text field (using TextOut, etc). Hmm... minor cockup
i) Ah my windows are back in the desktop images (on the sidebar), but now the current window is bigger with a black splodge at the bottom.
My Computer screen...
j) Love the antialiasing on the left, but not in the middle... nice.
k) How fake are the section buttons on the left hand side? Come on guys... you can't flip images horizontally... MS insist on a top left light source. Oh, and your button with the shadow should either have an alpha plane or not... don't do half a job... it really doens't look real.
My Documents...
l) Oooh, Oooh, an anti-aliased dropdown. Fake Fake Fake.
My Pictures..
m) Nice... what happened to Burn CD though? Have MS dropped it now they support DVD burning?
n) Oops, you should have removed the LH.bmp from your My Pictures. Remember you only used it to create the backgroud.
DOS Setup
o) Love it... now your just taking the piss. How did you get the screenshot??? and the 'install Windows Longhorn 2004 using DOS 1985' is excelent. Very funny
p) The URL is superb. ROTFLMAO.
So...
Nice theming... love the sidebar, good use of blending in your graphics package, but FAKE FAKE FAKE.
Great for a laugh though.
It's called a double standard. Kernel hackers' field of study is considered sacred, yet when usability people of equal expertise in their field try to explain how to correct some very bad usability problems with free software, they are told by technically-inclined linux zealots that their field of study, put between a sarcastic pair of quotes, is BS. A prominant kernel hacker once told me that he couldn't believe that "[usability] people get paid to criticize the work of others". I think of this quote everytime someone poses the quote "why linux has had such extraordinary success on the server yet such a hard time on the desktop?".
Technical expertise is lauded and user interface expertise is devalued and mocked. There's a reason why there is such a dearth of usability people in the free software community. It's attitudes like these, people.
I often say that Bill Gates doesn't have to lift a finger to crush desktop linux because so many people in the linux community are doing his job *for* him.
Ergonomica Auctorita Illico!
What really pisses me off is that when Steve Ballmer came to Australia, he specifically said "Linux cloned UNIX, and is trying to clone Windows".
This really f*cks me off!!!
Just like the crusade against run-on sentences?
I just thought that Longhorn Desktop pics is seem to like a TEXAS Farm.....so,I`D like to recommend that Bill would be rebuild the family house in Austin,TEXAS...seriously.then, I want to hear Longhorn review by Bruce Sterling or SRV....
Don't have *time* to install Apache????? You don't have 20 minutes?
When I try to buy a laptop, and find out there is no "unbundled" option for that laptop.
Imagine if you tried to buy a portable CD player. Rather than buying just the CD player for 100$ or so, you have to pay 115$ for it and 2 Backstreet boys CDs (a savings of 15$!). You try and tell them that you don't want the Backstreet boys CDs, because you have a collection of your own music to listen.
"We can't, sir. It's bundled. It represents a savings to you anyways, so you are getting a good value. Since every player is sold with CDs, only people who are commiting music piracy would have music separate from the players anyways."
But the thing is, I'm paying for something I don't want and won't use. If I disagree with the licence and try to return Windows for the money I paid for it as a bundle price, I end up having to deal with the retailer, OEM, and Microsoft all pointing fingers at each other. "Talk to them, they're the ones who should give you your money."
Microsoft gets my money without my consent. This is robery -- they are stealing from me.
--
Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
Am I supposed to like this or am I supposed to hate it? SLASHDOT PLEASE TELL ME!
Either this guy has an extremely large collection of pr0n and MP3s or this is a bad screenshot edit.
How very Microsoftian. Name something of theirs after an OSS project. I can see it already. Tomorrow there'll be an article about how Microsoft is suing the Plex86 people for trademark infringement.
Hey, nothing's too low when it comes to M$...
That site contains hours of quality, college-girl-next-door jackage. Thanks!!
http://dreamsource.de/pics/chickpics/images/1.jpg? 500.jpg?dreamsource.de
Obviously fake... It says Windows XP Media Center Edition on a screen... Theres WinMeCen images in the my pictures folder... The version information on the bottom right changes from screen to screen... So many flaws...
gt25500@optonline.net
You got screwed. JSPager is free.
"Everything from a new start button, extended task bar, display options, .NET capability, and a bigger clock." ... Just saw the pictures. So that's how steve wants to outsmart open source? Another example of Microsoft Innovation(R)? It's nothing that KDE3, or Gnome2+nautilus already aren't doing.
I don't know about that UI. Everything seems slightly off and not quite right. Kind of like those car-audio or sun glasses booths at a flee market. No doubt, Microsoft is trying... however they don't seem to put a lot of love or thought into an UI design.
I can't understand why anyone earth anyone would think this user interface is functional. Basic file browsing windows have been converted into a freak'n sideshow. Windows have a top toolbar, a side bar, header graphics with shortcuts, popup menus, etc etc. Heck, the "My Pictures" window, by default, is setup to look more complex then Photoshop LE. A desktop window should -not- look like this. It is a poor use of work space, it's difficult to read, and functions are not properly prioritized. Moreover, options to turn-off this horrible UI clutter are practically hidden from novice users.
And then there is the quick launch bar and the start menu. Those things are disasters by default. Things are not prioritized properly and they both handle similar (if not identical) tasks. It schizophrenic.
"Things are more moderner than before- bigger, and yet smaller- it's computers-- San Dimas High School football RULES!"
interesting to note that the code name for the project is "Longhorn" and the logo is identical to one of the ones used by the University of Texas for their football team, the "Longhorns".
check 'em here: http://www.utexas.edu
another subtle something can be seen in the SS with the "my pictures" box (and the picture of Bjork). one of the thumbnails is marked "aliefschoolbus_1.jpg" -- Alief is a huge school district in the Houston area.
I'd say that's a pretty strong clue that whoever owns this box is either in Tejas, or has close ties to it -- and is having a pretty good laugh.
Win95 and 98 were very well designed. They cleaned up the interface a lot to avoid distraction from the task at had, made everything subdued and monochrome, and made everything *small*. They managed to fix mistakes that have existed in Windows/Unix/Mac for years (such as extra lines between the window "border" and the contents, complex decoration around menus, and relying on pictures instead of text to identify iconized windows). And in case nobody remembers, Windows 95 scared the s**t out of Unix vendors, who up until then were rather confident in their superiority of GUI design. Oddly enough, MicroSoft, despite their power, is not scaring anybody with design now.
I think to the average person, about to throw down over $1000 for this thing, that they want to see a professional looking and clean and efficient appearance. They don't want it to look like it was made by Fischer Price. MicroSoft has lost their mind, or has become way too complacent in their monopoly position.
I find the start menu very nextish and I wonder if Microsoft borrowed some gui ideas from it. I like the panels but I hate the wizards. Windows2k is my favorite gui. Highly customizable and not annoyingly intrusive. The only thing I miss from the unix world is seperate desktops or panes. I can't believe redhat took them out of rh 8. They rock.
However I do not know Microsofts stance on drm and pallidium with longhorn. I assume pallidium will run in software mode if you use a non pallidium computer. Its easy to encrypt something. I admit seperating memory address spaces is impossible but Microsoft's goal is to prevent fair use at all costs to satify its own as well as hollywoods needs. If I rip an audio track with wma in Longhorn, will it be encrypted by default?
http://saveie6.com/
Well in 1999 when Windows 2000 finished up, the Windows management started working on a roadmap to upcoming Windows versions. Previous codenames were based on cities (Chicago, Memphis, et al.) but for the new ones, the codenames Whistler and Blackcomb were chosen. Both of these are large ski resorts north of MS-headquarters in Canada. Whistler turned out to be Windows NT 5.1 (Windows XP) released in late 2001 (guess where the ship party was at), and Blackcomb is rumored to be NT6.
The Longhorn name, incidentally, (given to the version of Windows that will release between the two) comes from the name of the bar you stop at when traveling between the two mountains...
Clever? Or just taking the metaphor too far?
Or is microsoft focusing on UI only.
I don't see any new features that are not GUI. Just new looks...
Microsoft gets my money without my consent. This is robery -- they are stealing from me.
You've got to be kidding. In the situation described, no one gets your money without your consent. Buying the fucking cd player (or a computer with Windows) is precisely all the consent you have to give.
No one's coercing you to buy the bundled goods. The only reason you consider those options is because they are the better value -- even better than non-bundled goods. You said it yourself,
But the thing is, I'm paying for something I don't want and won't use.
And that's your own damn fault.
www.beginners.org.uk/LH3683PreviewLong-WiNBETA.avi
that server has very limited bandwidth - so make a mirror if you can - tx :)
I don't see anything interesting in the screen shots. There are still huge, confusing menus and hundreds of icons scattered illogically around the screen--just like Windows XP.
I see on one of the screenshots (system properties) it say it's running with 512MB RAM. It scares me, i think it's minimum requirement.
Check out this site for an "unbundled" laptop option.
Oh, and the machines these guys sell are the same as some Dell and Toshiba models too, so don't come back arguing for an "acceptable" option or any bullshit like that.
seriously of all the criticism leveled at MS
( & I agree with almost all of it ) the one that
struck me as trivial was the gripes about the
gui.
Maybe it's not cool, but believe me if that was
the only thing wrong with MS there wouldn't be a
Linux.
It's never been about their Gui.
It'salway been about more important stuff
like Licensing, crushing competitors, stifling
innovation.
So they have a new gui.
whippe sheis.
Apart from the somewhat Apple like logo (all white) and a rearranged start menu taking up even more screen real estate than the start menu in XP I don't see that many changes. The rendering engine is basically the same (If you look at the aliased -jaggy- rounded corners of the windows you'll see that there is still no built in alpha compositing). The tasks are nice for newbies and irritating for practiced users. When MS makes some real changes in the interface, such as cleaning up the current mess of no less than four seperate windows in order to set up the network, then I'll agree that real change has happened in the UI.
Has anyone else noticed that the "sidebar" looks like a ripoff of QNX, and the free drive space bars is a ripoff of OpenTracker in the BeOS? Of course we also have virtual desktop like Linux and the big clock remainds me of Object Desktop a theme program for MS Windows.
I used JSPager, it's cool, but not as nice as GoScreen. More apps behave correctly with GoScreen. Plus GoScreen can be configured to have a very minmal screen presence...just a single strip of buttons with numbers. That's perfect for me!
Here
Thank you Bush! Thank you, thank you, thank you!!!!
Ya Haaaaa
Fortunately, the net is global and tech-critic.com is registered to some guys in Australia. With some luck the standard US-law based cease-and-desist letter does not bear any significance down under.
Through the wonders of global capitalism, we here in Australia actually have our own Microsoft subsidiary, and I bet they even employ some lawyers as well...
deus does not exist but if he does
http://dreamsource.de/pics/kisspics/
Hot effing damn. I live in the WRONG place, apparently.
OK, the buttons are still square, but they are deffo trying to be blue glass.
:P
And that horizontal grey/white interlace effect. I know I have seen that somewhere before.
M$ could at least try to pretend they have had an original idea!
Check out the quote at the bottom of this page: "SCREENSHOTS REMOVED DUE TO MICROSOFT REQUEST".
I suppose using the Print Screen key is now a circumvention device or something....
Jouster
Still has a way to go before it's as ugly as my Linux desktop. Yeah, Linux!!
You can't get a laptop unbundled from Windows (or at least, you couldn't for many years). What are your choices? Well, you can use a Macintosh laptop (great if your task works there), but the fact is that Microsoft is a monopoly. They shouldn't legally be able to remove choice to the point where I can't not get Windows on an x86-based laptop.
--
Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
Why should they have to have a complete separate OEM and computer configuration when you only want the hardware sans OS?
Oh, because Microsoft is a monopoly and abusing its monopoly powers. Government regulations exist to curb these anti-competitive behaviours, because they hurt the economy.
--
Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
How long will it take for the "innovative" Linux users to ripoff the Longhorn UI?
Read reviews of shopping cart software
Amen...Preach it brother
Outside of a dog a book is mans best friend. Inside of a dog it is too dark to read.
Okay, so a competitor has stepped in to provide you with exactly the good you claim to demand (the one you said didn't exist because of Microsoft's use of its monopoly power), right? And this is also a result of Microsoft abusing its monopoly powers, simply because Dell, et al don't?
C'mon, Ino, what are you proposing? That corporations not be allowed to enter into limiting agreements with one another?
Government regulations do not exist to keep companies from making profits and increasing market share, they exist to protect consumers from undue harm. So, tell me again, how are you being harmed?
Supply and Demand assumes that you have a fair and free market. Microsoft has a monopoly therefore they can dictate terms more forcefully than if were required to compete.
I am sure tons of people would buy a computer without an operating system if it saved them money.
Unrelated: The screenshots look pretty good, but I think some of the themes from KDE3 (I noticed something that said Desktop 1, so I guess MS realizes the benefit of virtual desktops) are just as nice looking.
--Joey
You can get multiple desktops on Windows 95/98/NT/2000 with Control Center from Stardock's Object Desktop suite. Stardock's "virtual desktops" were first available in Object Desktop for OS/2, circa 1995.
I love the BULL icon. Perhaps there's a subliminal message here that Steve Ballmer forgot to tell us about? *chuckles*
Anyhow, it doesn't look bad, as far as appearence goes, but I hope those icons and menus can be resized or hidden. For graphic design pros who need to use Windows in the future, a menu that big will plays hell with the functionality of the system.
I like the multiple desktop feature. Did someone take a page from the books of Linux?
There is just one thing I want to know about Longhorn. What *exactly* is the big advantage that this OS has over XP and Win2K? "Trusted Computing" perhaps? I admit that I don't know MS's blueprint for this OS at the moment, so only time can tell.
1) Imagine a beowulf cluster of these. ...
2)
3) PROFIT!!!!!!
w1nd0wz sUx0Rz!!!
(Random Ellen Feiss reference goes here).
Have you taken Economics at all? A monopoly is a special case. There are certain rules that monopolies need follow, that do not apply to normal busineses. Note how I do not complain about Apple, because they are not a monopoly.
--
Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
I have a B.S. in Economics (I graduated in 2001), so yes, I have taken a few courses. These include graduate level micro- and macro-economics, econometrics, and industrial organization (check out these two links for some good stuff on IO), including others.
It's interesting to me that you bring up Apple in an argument in which you accuse a software company (Microsoft) of being a monopolist (or a monopoly, as you put it). Apple couldn't exist if this was the case. Study some IO and you'll come to understand that M$ is certainly not a monopolist, but rather the most successful member of a large oligopoly. This means that M$ does enjoy quite a bit of market power, but certainly not "monopoly" power. Monopolists simply do not occur "naturally" (the term natural monopoly is a bit of a misnomer); they only exist when a government grants such authority (such as with the postal service in the U.S.)
The key here is to break down the markets (demand), the products/services (supply), and the competitive forces (how companies react to the latter) at play. Once you do you'll find that the OS market is dominated -- but not controlled -- by Microsoft, and that several competitors offer similarly fuctional products/services and are constantly driving the industry (and M$) to innovate. Bottom line: alternatives to Windows are available, M$ does not price its products at anywhere near the "monopoly" level, and competitors are constantly nipping at M$'s marketshare. None of these would occur if Bill Gates had created a monopolist.
You're right in stating monopolies are special cases. In order to maintain a Pareto efficient economy, monopolists must be heavily regulated. Microsoft however, just doesn't fit the bill.
To put it another way: How is it you're being harmed?
Isn't it nice how the new start button resembles the Finnish flag? ;-D
The screen shots aren't available, because the product's still 100% vaporware.
" Pareto efficient economy, monopolists must be heavily regulated. Microsoft however, just doesn't fit the bill. "
Go read the findings of fact. Judge Jackson found them to be a monopoly. Monopolies do exist without the explicit permission of a government (Standard Oil). The market is best served by innovation based around a set of of open standards (IEE1284, for example, and the printer companies). MS uses the fact that it is a monopoly to leverage their proprietary standards, forcing all companies to kow-tow to them, rather than finding the natural market balance. Once one company has enough power to dictate what the market does on such a level, it is a monopoly. Just like Sasktel, who dictates exactly how much internet access costs in Saskatchewan.
By abreviating MS as "M$" you make my case.
--
Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
Here's the deal, Ino. You clearly hold to a value system at odds with mine. You think that my use of "M$" as a reference to Microsoft is in some way a put-down, when it's not. You also believe that intellectual property should not be privatized, but instead offered free to all.
Now, I'm not going to pull out the big "S" word on you, or try to envelope your ideology in any other way. But I will pick apart a couple of your comments
First of all, go read (what will probably stand as) the final ruling in the DOJ vs. Microsoft trial, instead of making references to statements (which I've read, btw) made by a judge whose ruling was overturned (and who breaks code by speaking with the media while a trial is underway.) You want to talk facts (and by that I take you to mean reality), right?
Secondly, do some research into the business practices of Standard Oil -- particularly those which garnered the company market share -- and explain to me how they parallel those of Microsoft. Focus on innovation, consolidation, predatory pricing, and coersion.
Last but not least, I'd like to challenge you to re-think the logical connection (and validity) of your claims that M$ "forces" companies to use its "proprietary standards" (which ones, exactly?), and how this relates to a company in Saskatchewan that (supposedly) engages in price fixing (I mean, c'mon, even Judge Jackson admitted M$ doesn't price at either monopoly or predatory pricing levels for Windows.)
And to conclude I'll ask once again: How are consumers being harmed by Microsoft? 'Cause in the end, this is all that matters.
Thank you Ino. You truly just made my day.
Oh, and you can still buy a laptop without Windows here. That experiment sure was fun.
Cheers.
Unfortunately.
I should also mention that I've yet to find a store in the city that sells laptops without Windows. Perhaps you should find a brick and mortar store, since the shipping + duty for any machine from the US (assuming I do not somehow manage to have you smuggle me such a machine) would be more than enough for me to move to Hawaii on.
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Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
They add on enough to make it cheaper to drive down to the US, because I would be charged 14% taxes ontop of any fees.
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Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
First, the mascot of the Univeristy of Texas at Austin (where I am a student) is the Longhorn. Our colors are white and burnt orange. I found it a little strange that the new OS is codenamed "Longhorn" and the color of the logo is very similar to burnt orange (and there appears to be some white too).
Second, Microsoft is a huge supporter of the University and vice versa. We have a business deal with Microsoft where any MS CD is only $5 (yes, we get Windows for $5 / copy).
Third, UT Austin is the largest university in the nation with over 50,000 students.
Put everything together... Cheap software means every student will be using it. That's a lot of people who will rely on MS software once they graduate. Furthermore, creating an OS named after their mascot will further increase support from the largest university in the nation and its supporters. It could piss off a lot of UT haters, but there would be much more support than not and it's only a codename (we all know it will just be called "Windows" in the end).
It's probably just nothing, but I think it is surprisingly coincidental... I wonder if MS knows that "burnt orange" is trademarked?
http://newqer.0wnz.at/dl/old_jeans.jpg
To say that UNIX is doomed is pretty rabid, OS/2 will certainly play a role,
but you don't build a hundred million instructions per second multiprocessor
micro and then try to run it on OS/2. I mean, get serious.
-- William Zachmann, International Data Corp
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