You need to get over the 1337 thing. The only thing worse than listening the 1337 teenage crap is hearing people whine that linux users are just script kiddie hackers.
Why would she need to? Windows sets it up already for her without needing to.
It is exactly my point that grandma, a consumer, is using Windows, a consumer level operating system and has no reason to move to linux. For distros to try to win her over by putting out bloated, "desktop" oriented releases does nothing to make her want to use linux, and does not help the real users who count on it being a useful tool. Let Windows and Mac fight over the desktop, they can have it. People who use linux on the desktop know how to use it, use it for a reason, and don't need the bloat.
Then is she at home using unix? Can she set up her wireless interface with that command line? Or even GUI? Most (all?) serious computers back then ran multi-user, probably even better than Unix. A few of them are still around today, and are probably still better than Unix. The ones that have survived did it by not porting to consumer level hardware, throwing on a crap GUI and competing with established consumer level operating systems.
My point was there is a tool for every job, and we have Windows and Macs for consumer level requirements. I don't want to see Linux bogged trying to support all hardware and all users for all situations to the point it becomes a useless tool for serious users.
I've always thought the strength of linux was the fact it was "not for everyone," and unlike everyone else here I am not looking forward to the day my grandma can use it. That's what Windows and Mac are for. The year of the linux desktop happened when I started using linux as a desktop, and when a person needs it, they'll use it too. Stop competing with Windows, that's what the Mac is for.
Unix and Linux is for people who know what they are doing. It's a tool, not an experience. I do not want a "desktop" distro and a "server" distro. Leave it like FreeBSD where I can build a server or desktop with the same OS. If I wanted a server version and a dozen workstation versions I'll stick with Windows.
I had a professor who best described Unix as "a tool by professionals, for professionals." Personally I'd prefer to keep it that way.
The university did fail by offering a useless degree. Where I went to school, "Information Technology" is where all the Comp Sci dropouts wound up.
Think for a moment what would happen if students didn't have to pay back loans until they found a job in the field they were trained for.
(I know, loans don't come from the schools themselves, but play along)
1. They would raise admission standards so that 2.7 students don't get in. Go to a Community College and get your shit figured out before you blow 70k on a "I.T." degree. Hell she'd been better off just getting an MCSE.
2. They would eliminate useless degrees like Information Technology, Sociology...hell, most social sciences. I'm not saying social sciences are completely useless, but really, how many people go into psychology confusing it with psychiatry.
3. Schools really would offer better job placement services.
Principal Skinner: It's already wiped out the dodo, the cuckoo and the nene. And it has nasty plans for the booby, the titmouse, the woodcock and the titpecker.
I was working on some home projects a few years ago while searching for a job. While setting up OpenBSD on my machine, I noticed that the mirror was an ISP in my city. Of course I checked out their website, saw job openings and applied. I told them this story during the interview, which lead to discussions to the projects I was doing on my own time, which lead to a job offer.
I wound up turning the position down for another one, ironically a few blocks away from them, for a company that uses them as an internet provider! So now I had a contact in the ISP, and they had one inside my fairly large company (me). Win-win situation.
I used the TI-83 all the way through highschool ('95-'99) and then all the way through college until i hit Calc 2. Then I finally had to break down and get the TI-92.
Most (math) professors won't let you even use a calculator on exams until about then anyway. I can't say the same about bio or chem.
I find that the IT department knows more about the inner workings of it's company than any other department in the organization. I install and modify all of our engineering and bidding software, developed our hr database and client software, and do development on the payroll, general ledger and job costing packages that run on our mainframe. This morning I even did our marketing persons job by making fliers.
Generally when someone is on vacation or out sick, that person's department grabs one of our IT guys to fill in for the day b/c they're the only ones that know how to do that person's job.
When I was interviewing for jobs a few years back I got some invaluable pointers for my resume from interviewers. Sure some of them suggested I learn things that would only be beneficial if I applied for them same position again, but I feel all of them had the best intentions. And I still follow some of their advice.
Thats basically the reason we haven't dumped our as/400. It has nothing to do with the code, it has everything to do with the fact that the hardware and software revolve around the database. The thing is built to do one thing: database transactions. I hate dealing with the administration and ancient COBOL and RPG programs, but I have to respect it for what it does. Like the ancient lisp machines of the past.
I seriously hope that the Oracle OS does this: come shipped with a killer database and an os and language optimized to working with it.
They're around alright, trying to get retrained for new jobs.
When I was 23, fresh out of college and couldn't find a job I took classes for an mcse. The class consisted of me and 12 out of work cobol programmers. The lesson learned from this group of 50+ year olds is that NO language or os will be fashionable for the length of your career.
Besides most universities don't teach practical IT skills.
There's a lot to be said in that. When I first graduated I could talk to you all day about linked lists, but I couldn't set up a dns server to save my life. I had to go to a technical school for another 13 months and get an MCSE and an A+ cert.
IMO you shouldn't have to pay back your tuition loans until you get a job in the field you were trained for. This would:
Cause schools to get rid of useless majors (sociology anyone?)
Cause schools to be more aggressive in helping you find a job (our "job fair" days were jokes)
Cause them to up the admission standards to keep out dumb people or those not committed in staying in their industry.
Maybe there's a downside I'm missing, but I'm bitter over being forced to take so many sociology credits:)
Personally I think the problem with Microsoft is the ginormous releases every 3-7 years. Why don't they take on a development model similar to the BSDs or Debian.
Allow people to subscribe the "Branch" they want to use or their hardware allows. People with slower machines sync with the "2000 Branch." Bleeding edge people subscribe to "XP-current." Instead of forcing us through these heinous upgrades every few years, roll out your changes into the existing OS as they're stable.
Heck if they added a decent package/ports like system, you could run mix and match the GUI (Aero on XP, XP's explorer on Vista) so they wouldn't have to release 6 versions of Vista like they're planning.
Give it time. Microsoft has no focus anymore. Between operating systems, productivity software, programming environments, videogames, search, email, furniture stress testing, I'm beginning to forget what exactly Microsoft does anymore.
They're quickly becoming the Jack of all trades, master of none.
And that is the reason I plan on leaving the IT industry within the next 10 years.
I graduated with my CS degree in 2003 when jobs were scarce, so to make myself more hirable i went to MCSE training courses (gasp!). I found myself surrounded by 50+ year old cobol programmers that were laid off and trying to retrain.
I eventually got a great job with my cs degree/MCSE combo as a 23 year old, but i don't kid myself; when I'm in my 50's no amount of certifications are going to make me more attractive to employers than a 23 newly grad.
I'm studing for an accounting degree (or possibly mba), which by the time I finish I'll have 7-10 years experience as a database admin (current occupation). I think that has the makings for a pretty good financial analyist.
Agreed. A few years ago i worked for a very large telcom corporation that made it impossible to accomplish anything. We once had to wait 2 hours for a person from chicago to come to our office to simply reboot a server after a power outage.
I quit that job during a strike (i wasn't going to strike for a job i hated) and got a job at a smallish (200 employees) shop. in my first week i had to throw out monitor that had failed. when i was told i didn't have to fill out an asset disposal form, i knew i had made the right decision.
I call excel the ultimate mba tool. if data isn't in excel then it just doesn't exist. not that it's a bad tool, it's just not always approprate.
At my current job we had some cowboy excel "programmers" that practically made relational databases out of excel books. i've been there almost two years now and i still haven't gotton all of the nightmare excel "applications" convereted to access. even when it's in access, i need to provide a button on every form in order to dump data back out to excel.
Slashdot Mirror
Why would she need to? Windows sets it up already for her without needing to.
It is exactly my point that grandma, a consumer, is using Windows, a consumer level operating system and has no reason to move to linux. For distros to try to win her over by putting out bloated, "desktop" oriented releases does nothing to make her want to use linux, and does not help the real users who count on it being a useful tool. Let Windows and Mac fight over the desktop, they can have it. People who use linux on the desktop know how to use it, use it for a reason, and don't need the bloat.
Then is she at home using unix? Can she set up her wireless interface with that command line? Or even GUI? Most (all?) serious computers back then ran multi-user, probably even better than Unix. A few of them are still around today, and are probably still better than Unix. The ones that have survived did it by not porting to consumer level hardware, throwing on a crap GUI and competing with established consumer level operating systems.
My point was there is a tool for every job, and we have Windows and Macs for consumer level requirements. I don't want to see Linux bogged trying to support all hardware and all users for all situations to the point it becomes a useless tool for serious users.
I've always thought the strength of linux was the fact it was "not for everyone," and unlike everyone else here I am not looking forward to the day my grandma can use it. That's what Windows and Mac are for. The year of the linux desktop happened when I started using linux as a desktop, and when a person needs it, they'll use it too. Stop competing with Windows, that's what the Mac is for.
Unix and Linux is for people who know what they are doing. It's a tool, not an experience. I do not want a "desktop" distro and a "server" distro. Leave it like FreeBSD where I can build a server or desktop with the same OS. If I wanted a server version and a dozen workstation versions I'll stick with Windows.
I had a professor who best described Unix as "a tool by professionals, for professionals." Personally I'd prefer to keep it that way.
The university did fail by offering a useless degree. Where I went to school, "Information Technology" is where all the Comp Sci dropouts wound up.
Think for a moment what would happen if students didn't have to pay back loans until they found a job in the field they were trained for. (I know, loans don't come from the schools themselves, but play along)
1. They would raise admission standards so that 2.7 students don't get in. Go to a Community College and get your shit figured out before you blow 70k on a "I.T." degree. Hell she'd been better off just getting an MCSE.
2. They would eliminate useless degrees like Information Technology, Sociology...hell, most social sciences. I'm not saying social sciences are completely useless, but really, how many people go into psychology confusing it with psychiatry.
3. Schools really would offer better job placement services.
Principal Skinner: It's already wiped out the dodo, the cuckoo and the nene. And it has nasty plans for the booby, the titmouse, the woodcock and the titpecker.
I was working on some home projects a few years ago while searching for a job. While setting up OpenBSD on my machine, I noticed that the mirror was an ISP in my city. Of course I checked out their website, saw job openings and applied. I told them this story during the interview, which lead to discussions to the projects I was doing on my own time, which lead to a job offer.
I wound up turning the position down for another one, ironically a few blocks away from them, for a company that uses them as an internet provider! So now I had a contact in the ISP, and they had one inside my fairly large company (me). Win-win situation.
I used the TI-83 all the way through highschool ('95-'99) and then all the way through college until i hit Calc 2. Then I finally had to break down and get the TI-92.
Most (math) professors won't let you even use a calculator on exams until about then anyway. I can't say the same about bio or chem.
I find that the IT department knows more about the inner workings of it's company than any other department in the organization. I install and modify all of our engineering and bidding software, developed our hr database and client software, and do development on the payroll, general ledger and job costing packages that run on our mainframe. This morning I even did our marketing persons job by making fliers.
Generally when someone is on vacation or out sick, that person's department grabs one of our IT guys to fill in for the day b/c they're the only ones that know how to do that person's job.
When I was interviewing for jobs a few years back I got some invaluable pointers for my resume from interviewers. Sure some of them suggested I learn things that would only be beneficial if I applied for them same position again, but I feel all of them had the best intentions. And I still follow some of their advice.
Thats basically the reason we haven't dumped our as/400. It has nothing to do with the code, it has everything to do with the fact that the hardware and software revolve around the database. The thing is built to do one thing: database transactions. I hate dealing with the administration and ancient COBOL and RPG programs, but I have to respect it for what it does. Like the ancient lisp machines of the past.
I seriously hope that the Oracle OS does this: come shipped with a killer database and an os and language optimized to working with it.
They're around alright, trying to get retrained for new jobs.
When I was 23, fresh out of college and couldn't find a job I took classes for an mcse. The class consisted of me and 12 out of work cobol programmers. The lesson learned from this group of 50+ year olds is that NO language or os will be fashionable for the length of your career.
There's a lot to be said in that. When I first graduated I could talk to you all day about linked lists, but I couldn't set up a dns server to save my life. I had to go to a technical school for another 13 months and get an MCSE and an A+ cert.
IMO you shouldn't have to pay back your tuition loans until you get a job in the field you were trained for. This would:
- Cause schools to get rid of useless majors (sociology anyone?)
- Cause schools to be more aggressive in helping you find a job (our "job fair" days were jokes)
- Cause them to up the admission standards to keep out dumb people or those not committed in staying in their industry.
Maybe there's a downside I'm missing, but I'm bitter over being forced to take so many sociology creditsJust like http://fedora.redhat.com/
is it just me or does it seem odd to have a "pretty thorough review" considering it's only been released for an hour?
Personally I think the problem with Microsoft is the ginormous releases every 3-7 years. Why don't they take on a development model similar to the BSDs or Debian.
Allow people to subscribe the "Branch" they want to use or their hardware allows. People with slower machines sync with the "2000 Branch." Bleeding edge people subscribe to "XP-current." Instead of forcing us through these heinous upgrades every few years, roll out your changes into the existing OS as they're stable.
Heck if they added a decent package/ports like system, you could run mix and match the GUI (Aero on XP, XP's explorer on Vista) so they wouldn't have to release 6 versions of Vista like they're planning.
And while I'm dreaming I'd like a pony . . .
I don't agree, especially since I spent my morning writing things like
SELECT MH_ORIG
FROM CSTCDDTL
WHERE yada yada yada
Stormy: okay, so what if i put my brain in a robot body, and then there was a war between robots and humans, which side would i be on?
Debbie: humans! you still have a human brain
Sparks: but the humans would discriminate against you. you cant even vote!
Marco Rodrigo: man, we better not have to live on reservations, that would really chap my caboose!
I don't see why this is any different than hams sitting around listening to the airwaves.
what happens if you recieve a distress call, should you worry about that persons TOS when reporting an SOS?
Give it time. Microsoft has no focus anymore. Between operating systems, productivity software, programming environments, videogames, search, email, furniture stress testing, I'm beginning to forget what exactly Microsoft does anymore.
They're quickly becoming the Jack of all trades, master of none.
because play doo dries out too fast?
YAD (Yet Another Doh)
installing oracle on debian/ubuntu is about the easiest thing ever:
/etc/apt/sources.list file:
/etc/init.d/oracle-xe configure
add following lines to
deb http://oss.oracle.com/debian/ unstable main non-free
deb-src http://oss.oracle.com/debian/ unstable main
#apt-get update
# apt-get install oracle-xe-universal
#
it runs like a dream on my ubuntu box.
And that is the reason I plan on leaving the IT industry within the next 10 years.
I graduated with my CS degree in 2003 when jobs were scarce, so to make myself more hirable i went to MCSE training courses (gasp!). I found myself surrounded by 50+ year old cobol programmers that were laid off and trying to retrain.
I eventually got a great job with my cs degree/MCSE combo as a 23 year old, but i don't kid myself; when I'm in my 50's no amount of certifications are going to make me more attractive to employers than a 23 newly grad.
I'm studing for an accounting degree (or possibly mba), which by the time I finish I'll have 7-10 years experience as a database admin (current occupation). I think that has the makings for a pretty good financial analyist.
Agreed. A few years ago i worked for a very large telcom corporation that made it impossible to accomplish anything. We once had to wait 2 hours for a person from chicago to come to our office to simply reboot a server after a power outage.
I quit that job during a strike (i wasn't going to strike for a job i hated) and got a job at a smallish (200 employees) shop. in my first week i had to throw out monitor that had failed. when i was told i didn't have to fill out an asset disposal form, i knew i had made the right decision.
Its bound to work. Just look at how females swarmed to the field of vampire slaying!
I call excel the ultimate mba tool. if data isn't in excel then it just doesn't exist. not that it's a bad tool, it's just not always approprate. At my current job we had some cowboy excel "programmers" that practically made relational databases out of excel books. i've been there almost two years now and i still haven't gotton all of the nightmare excel "applications" convereted to access. even when it's in access, i need to provide a button on every form in order to dump data back out to excel.