I have. When it does, your system is effectively bricked and the Windows CD has very few tools available to help fix it.
I think you have legitimate complaints and truly had a bad experience. I do think you approach the problem with just a little too much invective (though that might just be the way it comes across and not the way you intended).
That being said, Breezy Badger was 5.10. That means it was released in October of 2005. It is now almost October of 2007. I assure you, the experience with 7.04 (Feist Fawn) and the upcoming 7.10 (Gutsy Gibbon) will in all likelihood be an entirely different and positive experience.
One thing to remember though, before installing ANY operating system, is to know whether or not your hardware is going to be compatible and have a back-out plan.
Sometimes, people in the Linux community in their zeal to share what has been a wonderful experience for them with others, they forget to emphasize this fact. I know I've even been guilty of it. But, it is VERY important.
Never, ever install a new OS (Open Source or otherwise) before ensuring you have the tools and expertise necessary to recover should there be a hardware compatibility problem that prevents the installation from completing correctly. Also, be reasonably sure that your hardware and the desired OS is compatible.
This is not always and easy thing. For *most* users, an install of Linux goes perfectly smoothly. Unfortunately, if you are one of the "Lucky Ones", you get the wonderful experience that you had.
Hopefully, as things progress, everyone in the Linux community will be more careful in their recommendations to others and be more helpful when things go wrong.
I've installed and configured nearly every OS available since 1985. I can speak from experience and say that none of them are perfect and always go smoothly. If you research the hardware requirements and don't try to shoe-horn things, usually everything will work great!
Actually, I think you might have something there. It truly is an elegant solution to the problem.
Sometimes, I think those "Bums" who sit around and do nothing (play video games, hang out on the beach, play guitar on street corner) have the best solution to life.
Do the bare minimum. Subsist on the bare minimum.
I have only one problem with this concept. It is better to work hard and produce as much as you can while minimizing your consumption. This is hard. It tends to enrich those who don't deserve it.
What is needed, is to work hard, produce more than you need, and ensure the surplus is fairly used for the benefit of all.
Idealistic you say? I agree.
I would like us to aspire to a higher ideal. Myself included.
I have been using Linux almost exclusively since 1994. I've come to find Ubuntu to be a completely wonderful experience and a great product. I've never had the sort of issues you are speaking of.
Now, I'm not denying you had these issues. In fact, you seem like a perfectly honest person who had a bad experience.
My question is this: When did this occur? Which version of Ubuntu?
The reason I ask, is that over the last 4 versions (about 2 years) Ubuntu (and Linux in general) has went from what I would consider an OS only recommendable for true experts, to extremely friendly "Grandmother Ready".
I think if your experience was more than 1 year ago, you should consider giving it another look, you might be pleasantly surprised.
If you have any questions about it, and would like one on one support, please feel free to consult my website.
Mostly I think it is because we're all too busy working for a living. Those who can afford college without having to work, do go into medicine and law as you said. Especially law. If you control the law you can control the money.
Most Americans, even if they are really smart and work hard in high-school, still have to work while attending college and have little time for serious study. By the time they've finished four years of University, they have between $60,000.00 and $100,000.00 in debt. They look around and realize that if they go to graduate school, they will probably double that debt.
Now, they've worked for most of the time they've been at University, and haven't truly been able to get all the benefits of dedicated study, and they are faced with more of the same. More debt, etc.
Because they have work experience and because they can take jobs that pay reasonably well, they do so, figuring it is best to cut their losses.
This is somewhat short-sighted, but, it is inevitable.
A foreign student in the U.S. usually (from my experience) attended non-graduate school in their home country and it was a free-ride one way or another (I'm not saying they aren't smart and didn't have to work really hard). They are now in the U.S. attending graduate school, usually on some sort of scholarship (not saying they didn't earn it).
They don't need to work to pay for school. They are not accruing massive debt. They can't just take a reasonable paying job in the U.S. because their student visa doesn't allow it. In their home country, reasonable paying jobs (without an advanced degree) aren't as plentiful. Their choices are, continue in graduate school while not accruing massive debts and yet being able to dedicate 100% of their efforts to learning and mastering the material, or return to their home nation and compete for jobs without and advanced degree. It's a pretty easy choice.
Economics has very little to say about justice and equality. It speaks to how to maximize the wealth, not how it is distributed.
It is up to the people, via their government, to decide what is a fair an equitable distribution while attempting to maximize the overall wealth via economic theory.
Sometimes, this means that balances must be struck such that, perhaps we didn't squeeze every last drop of wealth out of the system. For example, let us say we have something like this:
10% of population controls 30% of wealth (roughly evenly distributed amongst this 10%)
80% of population controls 68% of wealth (roughly evenly distributed amongst the 80%)
10% of population controls 2% of wealth (roughly evenly distributed)
Let us call the overall wealth level of the above 100 units of wealth. Now, we make a change in policy to now have 200 units (double the wealth) with the following ending distribution.
10% controls 69% of wealth (138 units as opposed to 30 units)
80% controls 30% of wealth (60 units total/before 68 units total)
10% controls 1% of wealth (2 units total/was 5 units)
Now, there is in total way more wealth. We've maximized wealth. But, is it a better society?
That is the difference (maybe not so extreme, but you get the idea) between pure economic theory and society tempered by respect and dignity for all its members.
I think you misunderstand my purposefully inflammatory rhetoric. I am saying what I am saying in order to arouse a reaction. To point out how everything can't just be about greed! You mistake it as hatred or anger towards Chinese or Indian people. That is not the case.
Let's grant that some jobs moving to lower-paid workers in India, China or whatever is good for the world, for everyone. Now, if that is the case, we want to make that move, that transition as free from artificial obstacles as possible. Right?
OK, along comes these greedy bastard who want to PATENT a method of effecting that transition thereby collecting a royalty (a tax in essence) on that transition. They then "steal" a little bit of wealth from the Chinese or Indian worker as well as from the person who will purchase the products of those same workers.
They do it under a government granted monopoly enforced by the world's largest and most powerful military force in history with a law enforcement infrastructure more advanced than any in history as well.
Why do they get to do that? Where is the justice in that?
Patenting this kind of thing and having it enforced effectively at gun-point is the utmost injustice. It should not be permitted.
If corporations continue to pursue this kind of unjust ways of acquiring more and more wealth, and continue to get away with, and the electorate is unable to put a stop to it, then we, as the beneficiaries of the freedom that our ancestors fought so hard for, are compelled to stand up and put an end to it by the only means left at our disposal.
It's about being a good corporate citizen of the nation and of the world.
Saying, well a corporation exists to make a profit is a cop-out. Of course they do. But, because they have been granted certain privileges by the citizenry, they owe that citizenry certain respect in return.
All of us, each an every one of us, owe dignity and respect to one another in exchange for the same.
I find your belief that one should not be willing to stand up and fight for what is right odd. It is what this country was founded upon.
You're saying, that no matter what, I have no right to arm myself and defend myself against those who would enslave me.
You are wrong. All humans reserve that right for themselves.
I would prefer things not come to that. Unfortunately, it seems more and more lately like that is where things are headed. There is an incredible lack of respect for basic human rights and dignity arising in this nation.
We have fascists in power who would question the very meaning of our constitutional rights and attempt to claim that we do not have the rights it explicitly reserves for us.
I hope that we can vote these people out. I hope that we can return to a direction that keeps the dignity of human endeavor above the profits of the few.
Should this not be the case, I will be will willing to fight and die to attempt to ensure these rights for my children (and yours).
Does that mean I would like this to happen? Absolutely not! But, I WILL NOT rule it out. I will not simply say, "Oh, well, there is nothing I can do."
People don't like this kind of talk because they want to be able to cheat and steal and repress and oppress with impunity and have there be no consequences except for perhaps, "Bad Press" (or maybe they'll need to change their corporate image/name).
Don't forget, the sole purpose for the existence of a corporation is to deny personal responsibility.
I understand that this is necessary in order to allow people to pull capital for the creation of businesses that benefit society whilst turning a profit for the investors.
Don't forget though, that it must be a two-way street. In order for investors to deserve the protection of the people that allows them to invest without risking personal ruin, they have a duty to create and environment conducive to dignified living for the citizens of said society.
I'm always taken aback by those who complain endlessly about the taxes they must pay, but, then forget about the "Law Enforcement" you speak of (and military, etc).
You have no problem inflicting violence on others as long as it is done by proxy (law enforcement, military, etc). You feel that because you've "made it" everyone else should piss off and be thankful to wallow in the sewage.
You're a fat Internet tough guy. You're too much of a listless wanker to "fight." You'll just continue posting violent diatribes to the Internet, espousing your own ignorance of elementary subjects.
...what does moving jobs to places with little to no protection for the dignity of workers funded by the demand in an economy where there are such protections lead?
Tell me, where does it lead?
It devalues those protections and undermines them until they become meaningless.
Who wins? Who loses?
Does the Indian or Chinese worker win? I think not.
Does the American worker win? I think not.
Does the International Capitalist with no loyalty to anyone or anything win? You Bet!
The people who came up with this patent ARE NOT the people who keep America on top.
In fact, the point is not to "keep America on top".
What keeps America Great, is the fact that we strive for a society where everyone has a reasonable standard of living and can live with a modicum of dignity.
All other nations could be like this too! Their people can insist upon it. If a lot of people must die, then so be it.
Chains find only willing wrists.
I for one will not allow myself to be enslaved. I will die first...taking as many of the fuckers with me as I can. At least then there will be a few less greedy fuckers in the world and everyone else just might have a chance.
If everyone felt like this, wouldn't tolerate this shit, it would end.
If all you can do is think of yourself then you deserve not the respect, support and protection of the many.
I grew up in inner-city Canton, Ohio in the '70's and '80's when all the factories closed and the manufacturing jobs were "outsourced". There was better than 30% unemployment. That city has never recovered.
People lost all hope. They lost all dignity.
I bought the line. Educate yourself. Be a "knowledge worker". Move into the information age.
I worked hard to teach myself software development, amongst other skills. I worked a full-time job from the time I was 15. I served my country and my people in the armed forces. I've been productive. I've made a lot of money for every employer I've had (millions).
What do I have to show for it? A country increasingly racing to the bottom. Treating it's own citizens (they don't even call them citizens anymore...they call them "consumers" and "tax payers") with a total lack of dignity and respect.
I've got nothing against the people of other nations. In fact, I have the utmost respect for them. I want them to be treated with dignity and respect too!
Don't you get it! There are a small segment of the world's population who think it's their right to control everything. To control our lives. To be the sole beneficiaries of all our efforts!
I say, "NO"! Not now! Not Ever!
I, for one WILL NOT ALLOW IT!
Maybe they'll put a bullet in my brain for standing up to them. So be it!
I've fought for everything in this life and I'll continue to fight.
This is the point I'm trying to make. With all my militant talk what I'm trying to say is that ALL PEOPLE OF THE WORLD must not allow everything to be a race to the bottom where only the few benefit.
I feel a great compassion for those who must live in such conditions. I want to help them. I want them to have decent jobs with a living wage.
But, turning the U.S. into another country where the few control all the wealth and power isn't going to accomplish that.
That's why, if necessary, I will fight. Hopefully, my vote and my words can prevent such from becoming necessary. But, I want the "powerful" and "wealthy" to know, that if you back us against the wall, we will take it all away. We will not let you turn us into slaves.
We need to work to have a strong middle-class where the dignity of human beings is respected. We need to work to extend that dignity to all citizens of the world. Those, in any country, who would enrich themselves at the expense of their fellow humans, who would treat their countrymen and fellow human beings as cattle, must be held accountable at ANY cost.
I didn't intend to imply there should be wholesale slaughter. What I meant to convey is that these actions are meant to undermine everything valuable about a civil society where people have a right to dignity, life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
Those who would work to deprive us of these rights, must be stopped. With complete and utter finality!
That's the kind of argument they want you to believe. Well, if we pay these people over here this low-wage that no one in America would take, then we're making their life better without hurting anyone.
BULLSHIT!
It's a freakin' race to the bottom!
Let's do this. Make there be a world-wide minimum wage. World-wide standards for working conditions. World-wide standards for working hours. World-wide standards for medical care. World-wide standards for retirement programs.
Now, you can move the jobs to where there is a "Comparative Advantage"! Oh wait, there it none now is there?
Race to the bottom. That's all it is.
How much can you line your own pockets whilst forcing everyone else to live in squalor.
Maybe you accept that in India or wherever the fuck you live, but, we're not going to accept it here.
We're not going to sit idly by while a "Caste" system is created whereby only the few have any decent sort of living conditions and everyone else lives in the sewer.
I say againg. RISE UP! RISE UP! RISE UP!
Stand and be counted! Be a true American. Be brave. Be strong.
Do not let the few steal everything away from the many and force you to live like an animal.
My ancestors fought in order to have equitable pay for work, decent working conditions, and something approaching a society where there is a reasonable middle-class.
This is the kind of thing that seeks to have the U.S. be like a third-world nation. A small group of people who control most of the wealth and everyone else not much more than slaves.
I for one, will not stand for it. I WILL rise up. I WILL start the fucking revolution. It is time for us American citizens to wake up from our slumber. We need to hang these fuckers. Every last one of them.
They have no loyalty to anything but the money in their own pockets. The rest of the worlds people should do the same in their countries. If they won't, then that is up to them to live in squalor.
I say, No Way! Not here! My ancestors didn't die in Steel Mills and Coal Mines etc. in order for the few to be permitted to take everything away from the many.
It is time to rise up! Time to start the revolution. This MUST NOT be permitted.
Only cowards will rest on their laurels while everything is stolen away from us like this. This is MY COUNTRY and I WILL FIGHT for it.
WAKE UP PEOPLE! THIS IS PURE EVIL!
Tear it down. Tear it all down. Time for a house cleaning. Time to teach the moneyed elite that we will not stand for it.
Don't give me any crappy economic arguments about comparative advantage and such. If the only comparative advantage is that one workforce has rights to decent working condition and decent wages and one doesn't, then fuck economics.
Take these people in their fancy business suits that care not one shit for you and other American Citizens. Hang them!
Rise up! Rise up! Don't be a coward! Don't sit idly by while you are robbed of everything your forebears fought and died for.
Wake up people of America! Wake up!
Fight for your rights! Fight to death if necessary! Do not allow this wholesale theft of the American Dream!
...you should be able to topple a bunch of cash greedy bastards.
Oh, we will! One thing about us Americans is when we get prickly, we get real ornery.
We really don't stand for this shite for too long. Companies can get away with it for awhile until enough people get affected by it then, BAM! We drop the hammer.
<jingoism>
I'm proud to be an AMERICAN where at least I know I'm free..............[NO CARRIER]
</jingoism>
Please, everyone get their facts straight. The constitution limits the government's powers. It says nothing about this sort of conduct between two private parties (a corporation and an individual).
Now, that being said, a corporation only has the authority to exist with limited liability for the shareholders because the people via their elected government, grants them that right.
It is the right of the people, as given in the constitution, to create laws, via their elected representatives, that prohibit a corporation from having this sort of conduct.
The question here is, is there or is there not a law that prevents this behavior by AT&T. If not, work to enact one. If so, sue.
Again, the constitution limits government power. It does this primarily by limiting the government's power to those powers specifically enumerated and no others. As an additional emphasis, the "Bill of Rights" was added to the constitution specifying some particular thing that the government is explicitly prevented from interfering with (e.g. Freedom of Speech).
Many of the founding father's felt that the "Bill of Rights" was a mistake as it left the impression that anything not mentioned in the Bill is a power/right reserved to the government when in fact the opposite is true.
PHB (standing in front of massive chart. One blue line sloping up, another red line sloping down):
OK people. Listen up. It's do or die time!
Our competitors are killing us the last few quarters. I mean, for God's sake, look at their numbers!
We used be at the top of the heap. Our customers could buy our crap by simply moving their index finger down about two millimeters, hardly any effort at all, and then simply release the pressure. BAM! WE HAD A SALE!
I mean, can you friggin' believe it. We were GODS! People bought our trash with almost no effort whatsoever. We could do no wrong. Our customers thought we were the SHIZZLE!
Well, here we are, 1 year later, getting our asses handed to us. Why didn't any of you idiots think of it?
Our competitor now has the thing set up where their customers need only pause momentarily in their movement of their hand over the word, "BUY"! They don't even need to exert ANY additional effort. None of this "so last year" exertion of index finger effort!
You people make me sick! You're gonna have to do better. We can't have our competitors making it less effortless for OUR customers to purchase THEIR crap!
Come on people. Brainstorm. Come up with something.
(From the far end of the overly long table...)
Timid Drone:
Sir, I have an idea
PHB:
Yes, go ahead Stimpson.
Timid Drone:
Sir, we could simply install a Flash/Silverlight based application that takes control of the user's Webcam and monitors their eye movements. If their eyes rest upon the word BUY for more than 25ms, then we activate the "ZERO CLICK, ZERO DIGIT, ZERO APPENDAGE EFFORT BUYING SYSTEM"!
PHB:
BRILLIANT! MAKE IT SO!
*********************
NOTE: I claim all rights to the above invention. Take this as PRIOR ART! You may not use this idea without paying me more money that you will ever make off of using it!
If a citizen of another country believes that the U.S. is supporting immoral policies in the world they should ABSOLUTELY take it out on U.S. businesses in the sense of withholding their business.
Same applies to citizens of the U.S. with respect to any other country.
Same applies to citizens of any country with respect to their own country.
Never support what you believe to be immoral. Always take a stand. If everyone took a stand, this kind of crap would stop.
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It's not meant to be a legitimate example. It is meant as an example your average computer user can understand and relate to.
Have you never had a Windows install fail?
I have. When it does, your system is effectively bricked and the Windows CD has very few tools available to help fix it.
I think you have legitimate complaints and truly had a bad experience. I do think you approach the problem with just a little too much invective (though that might just be the way it comes across and not the way you intended).
That being said, Breezy Badger was 5.10. That means it was released in October of 2005. It is now almost October of 2007. I assure you, the experience with 7.04 (Feist Fawn) and the upcoming 7.10 (Gutsy Gibbon) will in all likelihood be an entirely different and positive experience.
One thing to remember though, before installing ANY operating system, is to know whether or not your hardware is going to be compatible and have a back-out plan.
Sometimes, people in the Linux community in their zeal to share what has been a wonderful experience for them with others, they forget to emphasize this fact. I know I've even been guilty of it. But, it is VERY important.
Never, ever install a new OS (Open Source or otherwise) before ensuring you have the tools and expertise necessary to recover should there be a hardware compatibility problem that prevents the installation from completing correctly. Also, be reasonably sure that your hardware and the desired OS is compatible.
This is not always and easy thing. For *most* users, an install of Linux goes perfectly smoothly. Unfortunately, if you are one of the "Lucky Ones", you get the wonderful experience that you had.
Hopefully, as things progress, everyone in the Linux community will be more careful in their recommendations to others and be more helpful when things go wrong.
I've installed and configured nearly every OS available since 1985. I can speak from experience and say that none of them are perfect and always go smoothly. If you research the hardware requirements and don't try to shoe-horn things, usually everything will work great!
Actually, I think you might have something there. It truly is an elegant solution to the problem.
Sometimes, I think those "Bums" who sit around and do nothing (play video games, hang out on the beach, play guitar on street corner) have the best solution to life.
Do the bare minimum. Subsist on the bare minimum.
I have only one problem with this concept. It is better to work hard and produce as much as you can while minimizing your consumption. This is hard. It tends to enrich those who don't deserve it.
What is needed, is to work hard, produce more than you need, and ensure the surplus is fairly used for the benefit of all.
Idealistic you say? I agree.
I would like us to aspire to a higher ideal. Myself included.
I have been using Linux almost exclusively since 1994. I've come to find Ubuntu to be a completely wonderful experience and a great product. I've never had the sort of issues you are speaking of.
Now, I'm not denying you had these issues. In fact, you seem like a perfectly honest person who had a bad experience.
My question is this: When did this occur? Which version of Ubuntu?
The reason I ask, is that over the last 4 versions (about 2 years) Ubuntu (and Linux in general) has went from what I would consider an OS only recommendable for true experts, to extremely friendly "Grandmother Ready".
I think if your experience was more than 1 year ago, you should consider giving it another look, you might be pleasantly surprised.
If you have any questions about it, and would like one on one support, please feel free to consult my website.
Another example of "Race to the Bottom".
Mostly I think it is because we're all too busy working for a living. Those who can afford college without having to work, do go into medicine and law as you said. Especially law. If you control the law you can control the money.
Most Americans, even if they are really smart and work hard in high-school, still have to work while attending college and have little time for serious study. By the time they've finished four years of University, they have between $60,000.00 and $100,000.00 in debt. They look around and realize that if they go to graduate school, they will probably double that debt.
Now, they've worked for most of the time they've been at University, and haven't truly been able to get all the benefits of dedicated study, and they are faced with more of the same. More debt, etc.
Because they have work experience and because they can take jobs that pay reasonably well, they do so, figuring it is best to cut their losses.
This is somewhat short-sighted, but, it is inevitable.
A foreign student in the U.S. usually (from my experience) attended non-graduate school in their home country and it was a free-ride one way or another (I'm not saying they aren't smart and didn't have to work really hard). They are now in the U.S. attending graduate school, usually on some sort of scholarship (not saying they didn't earn it).
They don't need to work to pay for school. They are not accruing massive debt. They can't just take a reasonable paying job in the U.S. because their student visa doesn't allow it. In their home country, reasonable paying jobs (without an advanced degree) aren't as plentiful. Their choices are, continue in graduate school while not accruing massive debts and yet being able to dedicate 100% of their efforts to learning and mastering the material, or return to their home nation and compete for jobs without and advanced degree. It's a pretty easy choice.
Economics has very little to say about justice and equality. It speaks to how to maximize the wealth, not how it is distributed.
It is up to the people, via their government, to decide what is a fair an equitable distribution while attempting to maximize the overall wealth via economic theory.
Sometimes, this means that balances must be struck such that, perhaps we didn't squeeze every last drop of wealth out of the system. For example, let us say we have something like this:
10% of population controls 30% of wealth (roughly evenly distributed amongst this 10%)
80% of population controls 68% of wealth (roughly evenly distributed amongst the 80%)
10% of population controls 2% of wealth (roughly evenly distributed)
Let us call the overall wealth level of the above 100 units of wealth. Now, we make a change in policy to now have 200 units (double the wealth) with the following ending distribution.
10% controls 69% of wealth (138 units as opposed to 30 units)
80% controls 30% of wealth (60 units total/before 68 units total)
10% controls 1% of wealth (2 units total/was 5 units)
Now, there is in total way more wealth. We've maximized wealth. But, is it a better society?
That is the difference (maybe not so extreme, but you get the idea) between pure economic theory and society tempered by respect and dignity for all its members.
I think you misunderstand my purposefully inflammatory rhetoric. I am saying what I am saying in order to arouse a reaction. To point out how everything can't just be about greed! You mistake it as hatred or anger towards Chinese or Indian people. That is not the case.
Let's grant that some jobs moving to lower-paid workers in India, China or whatever is good for the world, for everyone. Now, if that is the case, we want to make that move, that transition as free from artificial obstacles as possible. Right?
OK, along comes these greedy bastard who want to PATENT a method of effecting that transition thereby collecting a royalty (a tax in essence) on that transition. They then "steal" a little bit of wealth from the Chinese or Indian worker as well as from the person who will purchase the products of those same workers.
They do it under a government granted monopoly enforced by the world's largest and most powerful military force in history with a law enforcement infrastructure more advanced than any in history as well.
Why do they get to do that? Where is the justice in that?
Patenting this kind of thing and having it enforced effectively at gun-point is the utmost injustice. It should not be permitted.
If corporations continue to pursue this kind of unjust ways of acquiring more and more wealth, and continue to get away with, and the electorate is unable to put a stop to it, then we, as the beneficiaries of the freedom that our ancestors fought so hard for, are compelled to stand up and put an end to it by the only means left at our disposal.
It's about being a good corporate citizen of the nation and of the world.
Saying, well a corporation exists to make a profit is a cop-out. Of course they do. But, because they have been granted certain privileges by the citizenry, they owe that citizenry certain respect in return.
All of us, each an every one of us, owe dignity and respect to one another in exchange for the same.
I find your belief that one should not be willing to stand up and fight for what is right odd. It is what this country was founded upon.
You're saying, that no matter what, I have no right to arm myself and defend myself against those who would enslave me.
You are wrong. All humans reserve that right for themselves.
I would prefer things not come to that. Unfortunately, it seems more and more lately like that is where things are headed. There is an incredible lack of respect for basic human rights and dignity arising in this nation.
We have fascists in power who would question the very meaning of our constitutional rights and attempt to claim that we do not have the rights it explicitly reserves for us.
I hope that we can vote these people out. I hope that we can return to a direction that keeps the dignity of human endeavor above the profits of the few.
Should this not be the case, I will be will willing to fight and die to attempt to ensure these rights for my children (and yours).
Does that mean I would like this to happen? Absolutely not! But, I WILL NOT rule it out. I will not simply say, "Oh, well, there is nothing I can do."
People don't like this kind of talk because they want to be able to cheat and steal and repress and oppress with impunity and have there be no consequences except for perhaps, "Bad Press" (or maybe they'll need to change their corporate image/name).
Don't forget, the sole purpose for the existence of a corporation is to deny personal responsibility.
I understand that this is necessary in order to allow people to pull capital for the creation of businesses that benefit society whilst turning a profit for the investors.
Don't forget though, that it must be a two-way street. In order for investors to deserve the protection of the people that allows them to invest without risking personal ruin, they have a duty to create and environment conducive to dignified living for the citizens of said society.
I'm always taken aback by those who complain endlessly about the taxes they must pay, but, then forget about the "Law Enforcement" you speak of (and military, etc).
You have no problem inflicting violence on others as long as it is done by proxy (law enforcement, military, etc). You feel that because you've "made it" everyone else should piss off and be thankful to wallow in the sewage.
I don't think of things that way.
Call me an idealist. Call me a zealot. Whatever.
I believe in something besides lining my pockets.
You truly are a moron, ANONYMOUS COWARD!
Nice to see ANONYMOUS COWARD posting telling someone else how they will never fight!
What I say, I say under my REAL NAME. Not under some pseudonym or, worse yet, ANONYMOUS COWARD.
If you don't like what I have to say, look me up and tell me ANONYMOUS COWARD!
Keep telling yourself that!
...what does moving jobs to places with little to no protection for the dignity of workers funded by the demand in an economy where there are such protections lead?
Tell me, where does it lead?
It devalues those protections and undermines them until they become meaningless.
Who wins? Who loses?
Does the Indian or Chinese worker win? I think not.
Does the American worker win? I think not.
Does the International Capitalist with no loyalty to anyone or anything win? You Bet!
Yeah, I'm all for supporting that!
The people who came up with this patent ARE NOT the people who keep America on top.
In fact, the point is not to "keep America on top".
What keeps America Great, is the fact that we strive for a society where everyone has a reasonable standard of living and can live with a modicum of dignity.
All other nations could be like this too! Their people can insist upon it. If a lot of people must die, then so be it.
Chains find only willing wrists.
I for one will not allow myself to be enslaved. I will die first...taking as many of the fuckers with me as I can. At least then there will be a few less greedy fuckers in the world and everyone else just might have a chance.
If everyone felt like this, wouldn't tolerate this shit, it would end.
If all you can do is think of yourself then you deserve not the respect, support and protection of the many.
I grew up in inner-city Canton, Ohio in the '70's and '80's when all the factories closed and the manufacturing jobs were "outsourced". There was better than 30% unemployment. That city has never recovered.
People lost all hope. They lost all dignity.
I bought the line. Educate yourself. Be a "knowledge worker". Move into the information age.
I worked hard to teach myself software development, amongst other skills. I worked a full-time job from the time I was 15. I served my country and my people in the armed forces. I've been productive. I've made a lot of money for every employer I've had (millions).
What do I have to show for it? A country increasingly racing to the bottom. Treating it's own citizens (they don't even call them citizens anymore...they call them "consumers" and "tax payers") with a total lack of dignity and respect.
I've got nothing against the people of other nations. In fact, I have the utmost respect for them. I want them to be treated with dignity and respect too!
Don't you get it! There are a small segment of the world's population who think it's their right to control everything. To control our lives. To be the sole beneficiaries of all our efforts!
I say, "NO"! Not now! Not Ever!
I, for one WILL NOT ALLOW IT!
Maybe they'll put a bullet in my brain for standing up to them. So be it!
I've fought for everything in this life and I'll continue to fight.
You should too!
This is the point I'm trying to make. With all my militant talk what I'm trying to say is that ALL PEOPLE OF THE WORLD must not allow everything to be a race to the bottom where only the few benefit.
I feel a great compassion for those who must live in such conditions. I want to help them. I want them to have decent jobs with a living wage.
But, turning the U.S. into another country where the few control all the wealth and power isn't going to accomplish that.
That's why, if necessary, I will fight. Hopefully, my vote and my words can prevent such from becoming necessary. But, I want the "powerful" and "wealthy" to know, that if you back us against the wall, we will take it all away. We will not let you turn us into slaves.
We need to work to have a strong middle-class where the dignity of human beings is respected. We need to work to extend that dignity to all citizens of the world. Those, in any country, who would enrich themselves at the expense of their fellow humans, who would treat their countrymen and fellow human beings as cattle, must be held accountable at ANY cost.
I didn't intend to imply there should be wholesale slaughter. What I meant to convey is that these actions are meant to undermine everything valuable about a civil society where people have a right to dignity, life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
Those who would work to deprive us of these rights, must be stopped. With complete and utter finality!
That's the kind of argument they want you to believe. Well, if we pay these people over here this low-wage that no one in America would take, then we're making their life better without hurting anyone.
BULLSHIT!
It's a freakin' race to the bottom!
Let's do this. Make there be a world-wide minimum wage. World-wide standards for working conditions. World-wide standards for working hours. World-wide standards for medical care. World-wide standards for retirement programs.
Now, you can move the jobs to where there is a "Comparative Advantage"! Oh wait, there it none now is there?
Race to the bottom. That's all it is.
How much can you line your own pockets whilst forcing everyone else to live in squalor.
Maybe you accept that in India or wherever the fuck you live, but, we're not going to accept it here.
We're not going to sit idly by while a "Caste" system is created whereby only the few have any decent sort of living conditions and everyone else lives in the sewer.
I say againg. RISE UP! RISE UP! RISE UP!
Stand and be counted! Be a true American. Be brave. Be strong.
Do not let the few steal everything away from the many and force you to live like an animal.
Don't stand for it. EVER!
My ancestors fought in order to have equitable pay for work, decent working conditions, and something approaching a society where there is a reasonable middle-class.
This is the kind of thing that seeks to have the U.S. be like a third-world nation. A small group of people who control most of the wealth and everyone else not much more than slaves.
I for one, will not stand for it. I WILL rise up. I WILL start the fucking revolution. It is time for us American citizens to wake up from our slumber. We need to hang these fuckers. Every last one of them.
They have no loyalty to anything but the money in their own pockets. The rest of the worlds people should do the same in their countries. If they won't, then that is up to them to live in squalor.
I say, No Way! Not here! My ancestors didn't die in Steel Mills and Coal Mines etc. in order for the few to be permitted to take everything away from the many.
It is time to rise up! Time to start the revolution. This MUST NOT be permitted.
Only cowards will rest on their laurels while everything is stolen away from us like this. This is MY COUNTRY and I WILL FIGHT for it.
WAKE UP PEOPLE! THIS IS PURE EVIL!
Tear it down. Tear it all down. Time for a house cleaning. Time to teach the moneyed elite that we will not stand for it.
Don't give me any crappy economic arguments about comparative advantage and such. If the only comparative advantage is that one workforce has rights to decent working condition and decent wages and one doesn't, then fuck economics.
Take these people in their fancy business suits that care not one shit for you and other American Citizens. Hang them!
Rise up! Rise up! Don't be a coward! Don't sit idly by while you are robbed of everything your forebears fought and died for.
Wake up people of America! Wake up!
Fight for your rights! Fight to death if necessary! Do not allow this wholesale theft of the American Dream!
Oh, we will! One thing about us Americans is when we get prickly, we get real ornery.
We really don't stand for this shite for too long. Companies can get away with it for awhile until enough people get affected by it then, BAM! We drop the hammer.
<jingoism> I'm proud to be an AMERICAN where at least I know I'm free..............[NO CARRIER] </jingoism>
Please, everyone get their facts straight. The constitution limits the government's powers. It says nothing about this sort of conduct between two private parties (a corporation and an individual).
Now, that being said, a corporation only has the authority to exist with limited liability for the shareholders because the people via their elected government, grants them that right.
It is the right of the people, as given in the constitution, to create laws, via their elected representatives, that prohibit a corporation from having this sort of conduct.
The question here is, is there or is there not a law that prevents this behavior by AT&T. If not, work to enact one. If so, sue.
Again, the constitution limits government power. It does this primarily by limiting the government's power to those powers specifically enumerated and no others. As an additional emphasis, the "Bill of Rights" was added to the constitution specifying some particular thing that the government is explicitly prevented from interfering with (e.g. Freedom of Speech).
Many of the founding father's felt that the "Bill of Rights" was a mistake as it left the impression that anything not mentioned in the Bill is a power/right reserved to the government when in fact the opposite is true.
Kind Regards,
Gerry B.
I think I should be able to defecate on your face. What I think matters most.
PHB (standing in front of massive chart. One blue line sloping up, another red line sloping down):
OK people. Listen up. It's do or die time!
Our competitors are killing us the last few quarters. I mean, for God's sake, look at their numbers!
We used be at the top of the heap. Our customers could buy our crap by simply moving their index finger down about two millimeters, hardly any effort at all, and then simply release the pressure. BAM! WE HAD A SALE!
I mean, can you friggin' believe it. We were GODS! People bought our trash with almost no effort whatsoever. We could do no wrong. Our customers thought we were the SHIZZLE!
Well, here we are, 1 year later, getting our asses handed to us. Why didn't any of you idiots think of it?
Our competitor now has the thing set up where their customers need only pause momentarily in their movement of their hand over the word, "BUY"! They don't even need to exert ANY additional effort. None of this "so last year" exertion of index finger effort!
You people make me sick! You're gonna have to do better. We can't have our competitors making it less effortless for OUR customers to purchase THEIR crap!
Come on people. Brainstorm. Come up with something.
(From the far end of the overly long table...)
Timid Drone:
Sir, I have an idea
PHB:
Yes, go ahead Stimpson.
Timid Drone:
Sir, we could simply install a Flash/Silverlight based application that takes control of the user's Webcam and monitors their eye movements. If their eyes rest upon the word BUY for more than 25ms, then we activate the "ZERO CLICK, ZERO DIGIT, ZERO APPENDAGE EFFORT BUYING SYSTEM"!
PHB:
BRILLIANT! MAKE IT SO!
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NOTE: I claim all rights to the above invention. Take this as PRIOR ART! You may not use this idea without paying me more money that you will ever make off of using it!
*********************
If a citizen of another country believes that the U.S. is supporting immoral policies in the world they should ABSOLUTELY take it out on U.S. businesses in the sense of withholding their business.
Same applies to citizens of the U.S. with respect to any other country.
Same applies to citizens of any country with respect to their own country.
Never support what you believe to be immoral. Always take a stand. If everyone took a stand, this kind of crap would stop.
Chains find only willing wrists!
Couldn't be more appropriate. Come out of the shadows Anonymous Coward.
My name is Gerald Edward Butler, I live in Copley, Ohio. Come and say shit like that to my face.
I'll beat you to death. That applies to all the cowards out there who want to hide behind anonymity.
Here I am you f---ing cocksuckers. Bring it on! All you terrorist jackasses and backwards nitwits.
5 Kilos is about 10.1 pounds (2.2 lbs per Kilo approximately).