Slashdot Mirror
IBM Seeks US Patents For Offshoring US Jobs
theodp writes "IBM and other corporations are seeking patents for inventions covering the offshoring of US jobs. The USPTO is considering IBM's patent application for Outsourcing of Services, a 'method for identifying human-resource work content to outsource offshore of an organization' to 'countries where cheaper labor prices and/or cheaper materials are available.' Then there's Big Blue's Electronic Marketplace for Identifying, Assessing, Reserving and Engaging Knowledge-Workers for an Assignment Using Trade-Off Analysis, which provides a handy-dandy IBM calculator that drives home the point that you'll pay less for IGS India workers, whether onshore or offshore. And with its System and Method of Using Speech Recognition at Call Centers to Improve Their Efficiency and Customer Satisfaction, IBM describes how to operate in 'low cost foreign countries' with 'support people not having good English language skills, or having an accent that makes it difficult to understand them' by exploiting technology developed for students who are deaf or hard of hearing, as well as other accent reduction techniques."
I'm sick of calling Dell, etc. and getting an "engrish is my 3rd language" call center representative. If they way to increase the cost of outsourcing, thereby decreasing feasibility, works for me.
IBM describes how to operate in 'low cost foreign countries' with 'support people not having good English language skills, or having an accent that makes it difficult to understand them' by exploiting
I have patented a method for cutting sentences short to make them more clear.
1: Apply for a patent of India style English
2: ???
3: ???
4: Profit!
for a second, I thought they were patenting offshoring/outsourcing. Now that would have been wacky...
See, now we see what IBM is really all about, using free software to make it easier to throw more people out of work in the states. At least with Microsoft, there's developers actually working in the USA....
This is my sig.
Speaking as a guy that's 70% deaf, these "techniques" could suck the chrome off a Harley. I have to ask accented people to repeat themselves, speak slower, and have YET to find one that knows the meaning of the word 'enunciate'. Heck, I had to get transferred 3-4 times one call to find someone who knew the definition of either "deaf" OR "hearing-impaired".
I won't argue that these patents might make some cash in the short term, but I'm curious if they've factored in the value of consumer good will...
Don't tell me to get a life. I'm a gamer; I have LOTS of lives!
Patenting business methods that are nothing more
that what used to be called 'management'.
My how management has gotten messed up over the last 30 years.
You are being MICROattacked, from various angles, in a SOFT manner.
If a few companies patent the entire outsourcing process, they will make it difficult for others to outsource. Then, there will be more domestic jobs and they'll have to work with immigration to outsource the labor here at home (where they will at least pump a little of their pay back into the economy).
The previous comment is purposely vague and generalized, but all of the facts are completely true.
I'm going to patent the process for getting patents.
That'll show 'em.
If they're sucessful in holding up that first patent, that means no other companies could do it!!!! I hope they win when someone sues them or they sue someone over it. Then you'll only get cheap foreigners that don't speak english well when you call IBM support. I'm all for this one!
Google's Super Secret Search Algorithm: SELECT @search_results FROM internet WHERE @search_results = 'good'
Yet another problem for IBM....
get
a test
Be happy.
In a couple of years the dollar will have fallen so far that the Indians will be off shoring to you!
Deleted
Specifically, can you patent a business practice, or a business model?
I can understand patenting technologies that lead up to it, but patenting the whole thing? I have no idea if that's within the scope of a patent...
Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
I checked the link, and this isn't coming from The Onion.
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
My ancestors fought in order to have equitable pay for work, decent working conditions, and something approaching a society where there is a reasonable middle-class.
This is the kind of thing that seeks to have the U.S. be like a third-world nation. A small group of people who control most of the wealth and everyone else not much more than slaves.
I for one, will not stand for it. I WILL rise up. I WILL start the fucking revolution. It is time for us American citizens to wake up from our slumber. We need to hang these fuckers. Every last one of them.
They have no loyalty to anything but the money in their own pockets. The rest of the worlds people should do the same in their countries. If they won't, then that is up to them to live in squalor.
I say, No Way! Not here! My ancestors didn't die in Steel Mills and Coal Mines etc. in order for the few to be permitted to take everything away from the many.
It is time to rise up! Time to start the revolution. This MUST NOT be permitted.
Only cowards will rest on their laurels while everything is stolen away from us like this. This is MY COUNTRY and I WILL FIGHT for it.
WAKE UP PEOPLE! THIS IS PURE EVIL!
Tear it down. Tear it all down. Time for a house cleaning. Time to teach the moneyed elite that we will not stand for it.
Don't give me any crappy economic arguments about comparative advantage and such. If the only comparative advantage is that one workforce has rights to decent working condition and decent wages and one doesn't, then fuck economics.
Take these people in their fancy business suits that care not one shit for you and other American Citizens. Hang them!
Rise up! Rise up! Don't be a coward! Don't sit idly by while you are robbed of everything your forebears fought and died for.
Wake up people of America! Wake up!
Fight for your rights! Fight to death if necessary! Do not allow this wholesale theft of the American Dream!
Over-the-top Response Guy! Giving "Over-the-Top Responses" since 1970.
This is a joke, right?
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Every time I've called AppleCare I've spoken to someone who spoke English as their first language (or good enough that I couldn't tell).
What is more galling is that the entire patent application was punched up by grunts in Bangalore. Would very much like to see a headline like, "IBM replaces CEO with Muniyandi Appannakaruppandi Joshi, a graduate of Aiyyappa Institute of Mangagement Sciences (second class, registered with Govt of India), for one tenth of the salary."
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
Nothing here (on the surface) seems to breaking new ground here, even in combination. Now if the system worked as it should, this patent would not be granted. Or, it were to be granted, it would be set-aside in a challenge due to prior art.
But with the Patent Office in its usual dysfunctional form and with IBM sitting on top of a team of patent lawyers that would not blush at arguing about IBM being the inventor of the wheel. It should be yet another step towards maintaining the status quo.
That's the kind of argument they want you to believe. Well, if we pay these people over here this low-wage that no one in America would take, then we're making their life better without hurting anyone.
BULLSHIT!
It's a freakin' race to the bottom!
Let's do this. Make there be a world-wide minimum wage. World-wide standards for working conditions. World-wide standards for working hours. World-wide standards for medical care. World-wide standards for retirement programs.
Now, you can move the jobs to where there is a "Comparative Advantage"! Oh wait, there it none now is there?
Race to the bottom. That's all it is.
How much can you line your own pockets whilst forcing everyone else to live in squalor.
Maybe you accept that in India or wherever the fuck you live, but, we're not going to accept it here.
We're not going to sit idly by while a "Caste" system is created whereby only the few have any decent sort of living conditions and everyone else lives in the sewer.
I say againg. RISE UP! RISE UP! RISE UP!
Stand and be counted! Be a true American. Be brave. Be strong.
Do not let the few steal everything away from the many and force you to live like an animal.
Don't stand for it. EVER!
Over-the-top Response Guy! Giving "Over-the-Top Responses" since 1970.
I entered "Samuel Palmisano" and it suggested several million Dalits that would be suitable as replacements.
Have gnu, will travel.
I completely agree with your sentiment but without the wholesale slaughter. What you really want is transparency so you can ridicule or sue those in power into compliance with your wishes. Things like pervasive decentralized video recording (as in everyone has a mini-camcorder that they don't even think about woven into their clothes until they - and their camera - witness something like police brutality) with the emphasis on decentralized meaning you don't share your footage unless you want to. Also the World Wide Web is truly one of the most disruptive technologies to emerge in all of history. Use it. Organize around sites like Open Secrets and pursue all the Information you can through Freedom of Information Acts to root out corruption. Expose those who are bought off by special interest groups. Basically, exercise the freedoms you currently enjoy and truly participate in democracy now to prevent those freedoms from becoming a relic of history. And if you are unfairly curtailed then shoot the bastards.
Shh.
Something I've noticed - sometimes I call tech support, and the person on the other end sounds American at first, but then I can hardly understand them and nothing they say makes sense. So, accent reduction + gibberish = gibberish.
engineering exploits you!
I didn't intend to imply there should be wholesale slaughter. What I meant to convey is that these actions are meant to undermine everything valuable about a civil society where people have a right to dignity, life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
Those who would work to deprive us of these rights, must be stopped. With complete and utter finality!
Over-the-top Response Guy! Giving "Over-the-Top Responses" since 1970.
10.000 year old "trade" concept is being tried to patent.
prior art ? a few here :
- ANY trade that buys finished goods from some source and sells to other.
- SLAVERY
- ANY action that you buy intermediate parts from somewhere and produce a finished product somewhere else.
ibm, you really, really suffered a great deal of credibility and charisma in many circles. you shouldnt employ such morons with such 'innovative ideas'.
Read radical news here
With the fall in the US Dollar, off-shoring is dead. They should try patenting on-shoring. That involves hiring Mexicans to do the work in San Diego...
Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
Microsoft open a development center in Vancouver because of Visa problems for foreign workers. I know an European (Danish) guy who successfully interviewed for Microsoft, and then couldn't get a visa (in that "lottery" style programme). Microsoft then decided to get him working in Vancouver, and he'll go to Seattle every once in a while to meet up with the rest of the team.
The AACS key is NOT 0xF606EEFD628B1CA427BEA93A9CA9773F
I won't argue that these patents might make some cash in the short term, but I'm curious if they've factored in the value of consumer good will...
For placing a projectile travelling at high velocity into the foot of person holding the projectile launcher, or metaphorically performing the same function on a company.
One can only hope that if IBM is granted these patents, their rigourous enforcement will make offshoring less attractive.
The US free market: two halves of a government-granted duopoly are free to set the market price.
This is the point I'm trying to make. With all my militant talk what I'm trying to say is that ALL PEOPLE OF THE WORLD must not allow everything to be a race to the bottom where only the few benefit.
I feel a great compassion for those who must live in such conditions. I want to help them. I want them to have decent jobs with a living wage.
But, turning the U.S. into another country where the few control all the wealth and power isn't going to accomplish that.
That's why, if necessary, I will fight. Hopefully, my vote and my words can prevent such from becoming necessary. But, I want the "powerful" and "wealthy" to know, that if you back us against the wall, we will take it all away. We will not let you turn us into slaves.
We need to work to have a strong middle-class where the dignity of human beings is respected. We need to work to extend that dignity to all citizens of the world. Those, in any country, who would enrich themselves at the expense of their fellow humans, who would treat their countrymen and fellow human beings as cattle, must be held accountable at ANY cost.
Over-the-top Response Guy! Giving "Over-the-Top Responses" since 1970.
Ok, so I didn't RTFA and mainly read just the headline. /trollbait probably
... art...meh.
Anyhow...how is this a patentable idea? Does IBM think they're the first company to open a campus somewhere that has cheaper labor than their main campus?
I think this will get thrown out for "obvious" or "prior art"
You can get rich if you own a politician, but you have to be rich to buy one in the first place.
It is time to rise up! Time to start the revolution. This MUST NOT be permitted.
If you're upset that these big companies are seeking business method patents for processes that may or may not even pan out in the marketplace, I'm puzzled. The method patents will only allow certain companies to use certain methods to perform some of their business functions offshore. This will allow them to keep others from using the same carefully defined methods, or will force other companies to license those methods. Either way, outsourcing is no longer the Soup-to-Nuts-Slam-Dunk Solution many companies thought it would be.
If you're upset about outsourcing, I wonder how you run your Open Source consulting firm. After all, a huge chunk of the software you're dealing with was created by people in countries other than the United States, and I'd hazard a guess that most of the work done on those programs wasn't done in North-East Ohio. In essence, you've outsourced millions of hours worth of work to the people who developed the software you're using. You, as a provider of technical services, are able to compete more effectively because of their labor.
If you were truly serious about being a mercantist, you wouldn't be leveraging so much labor from outside the US in your own business.
Finally, this statement is bizarre:
If the only comparative advantage is that one workforce has rights to decent working condition and decent wages and one doesn't, then fuck economics.
The Indian economy has taken off after decades in the doldrums. There is a rapidly developing middle class in China for the first time. The United States has a tremendously powerful economy that is extremely efficient at creating new markets. Do you seriously contend that the world would be better off without global trade? Or is it just that you feel entitled, as an American, to live in a world free of competition? We got rich first, so screw everyone else?
Read the EFF's Fair Use FAQ
The people who came up with this patent ARE NOT the people who keep America on top.
In fact, the point is not to "keep America on top".
What keeps America Great, is the fact that we strive for a society where everyone has a reasonable standard of living and can live with a modicum of dignity.
All other nations could be like this too! Their people can insist upon it. If a lot of people must die, then so be it.
Chains find only willing wrists.
I for one will not allow myself to be enslaved. I will die first...taking as many of the fuckers with me as I can. At least then there will be a few less greedy fuckers in the world and everyone else just might have a chance.
If everyone felt like this, wouldn't tolerate this shit, it would end.
If all you can do is think of yourself then you deserve not the respect, support and protection of the many.
I grew up in inner-city Canton, Ohio in the '70's and '80's when all the factories closed and the manufacturing jobs were "outsourced". There was better than 30% unemployment. That city has never recovered.
People lost all hope. They lost all dignity.
I bought the line. Educate yourself. Be a "knowledge worker". Move into the information age.
I worked hard to teach myself software development, amongst other skills. I worked a full-time job from the time I was 15. I served my country and my people in the armed forces. I've been productive. I've made a lot of money for every employer I've had (millions).
What do I have to show for it? A country increasingly racing to the bottom. Treating it's own citizens (they don't even call them citizens anymore...they call them "consumers" and "tax payers") with a total lack of dignity and respect.
I've got nothing against the people of other nations. In fact, I have the utmost respect for them. I want them to be treated with dignity and respect too!
Don't you get it! There are a small segment of the world's population who think it's their right to control everything. To control our lives. To be the sole beneficiaries of all our efforts!
I say, "NO"! Not now! Not Ever!
I, for one WILL NOT ALLOW IT!
Maybe they'll put a bullet in my brain for standing up to them. So be it!
I've fought for everything in this life and I'll continue to fight.
You should too!
Over-the-top Response Guy! Giving "Over-the-Top Responses" since 1970.
...what does moving jobs to places with little to no protection for the dignity of workers funded by the demand in an economy where there are such protections lead?
Tell me, where does it lead?
It devalues those protections and undermines them until they become meaningless.
Who wins? Who loses?
Does the Indian or Chinese worker win? I think not.
Does the American worker win? I think not.
Does the International Capitalist with no loyalty to anyone or anything win? You Bet!
Yeah, I'm all for supporting that!
Over-the-top Response Guy! Giving "Over-the-Top Responses" since 1970.
Keep telling yourself that!
Over-the-top Response Guy! Giving "Over-the-Top Responses" since 1970.
Devices for shooting oneself in the foot? "A Method for Removal of the Nose as an Expression of Disdain for the Face?"
This space available.
Call it what you will, but know this; if you live in a 3rd world nation and have a hearing and/or speech handicap, your economic chances for a quality life are next to none! This technology will provide employment opportunities that they would otherwise not have. In a 3rd world nation, this could mean the difference between being malnourished and having a comfortable place to sleep at night.
I really wish would some people would stop looking at employment as a form of exploitation. Why not look at the positive aspects of a developing nation. In other words, you should compare their quality of life before, and after. While working in a factory may be slave labor and beneath us, ask your self why they still work there. I'm willing to bet it's because they hate working in the farm plowing fields for even less money.
Maybe it's just me, but I've always placed value on any system or method that helps people raise their standard of living. I don't compare my standard of living with someone else. What I *do* look for is if *their* standard of living has improved. That is what's important. Too look at it differently would be ignorance and class-guilt.
Life is not for the lazy.
rah rah, USA... pathetic.
No, rah rah, USA, pilgrim. USA is awesome!
If you consider Windows good, I've got some swamp land in Florida for you. GOOD? GOOD? Wow. Some people never learn, do they.
Hey, I can put Windows on a machine, and watch a movie after it is installed. Can't do that with Linux, now, can you? As a developer, I have a choice of APIs for sound on Windows, and amazingly, they all work. By contrast, Linux sound is pretty rough. You've got a sound api for KDE, a sound api for Gnome, some other legacy sound apis, and none of them are as good as DirectSound and there's nothing as elegant and comprehensive as DirectMusic.
If we look at what the kernel offers, well, sure, Linux has a pretty elegant file model. But I'm aggravated that the Linux kernel lacks something basic like CopyFile, and Linux's asynch model doesn't quite stack up to the power offered by I/O completion ports.
From a user level - Linux's wireless networking is a mess compared to Windows, and even digital camera support is bad. Sure, Canon has finally upgraded to a newer standard, but older and perfectly workable cameras remain a void, but, they run ok on Windows. Linux support for Camera RAW format sucks, making it useless for any real digital photography. Of course, all of this just works on Windows.
You can go and blame manufacturers, and driver writers and whatever consumer conspiracy you want, but at the end of the day, consumers don't care. An operating system is an ecosystem, and either that ecosystem does what you want, or it doesn't, and under Linux, it doesn't, and for a lot of people.
Linux does have some advantages over Windows, I'll give you that. But, Windows has a lot of advantages of its own, as well, so many that, you can't really say that Windows is empirically bad, and in fact, for many applications, Windows is better.
This is my sig.
I find your belief that one should not be willing to stand up and fight for what is right odd. It is what this country was founded upon.
You're saying, that no matter what, I have no right to arm myself and defend myself against those who would enslave me.
You are wrong. All humans reserve that right for themselves.
I would prefer things not come to that. Unfortunately, it seems more and more lately like that is where things are headed. There is an incredible lack of respect for basic human rights and dignity arising in this nation.
We have fascists in power who would question the very meaning of our constitutional rights and attempt to claim that we do not have the rights it explicitly reserves for us.
I hope that we can vote these people out. I hope that we can return to a direction that keeps the dignity of human endeavor above the profits of the few.
Should this not be the case, I will be will willing to fight and die to attempt to ensure these rights for my children (and yours).
Does that mean I would like this to happen? Absolutely not! But, I WILL NOT rule it out. I will not simply say, "Oh, well, there is nothing I can do."
People don't like this kind of talk because they want to be able to cheat and steal and repress and oppress with impunity and have there be no consequences except for perhaps, "Bad Press" (or maybe they'll need to change their corporate image/name).
Don't forget, the sole purpose for the existence of a corporation is to deny personal responsibility.
I understand that this is necessary in order to allow people to pull capital for the creation of businesses that benefit society whilst turning a profit for the investors.
Don't forget though, that it must be a two-way street. In order for investors to deserve the protection of the people that allows them to invest without risking personal ruin, they have a duty to create and environment conducive to dignified living for the citizens of said society.
I'm always taken aback by those who complain endlessly about the taxes they must pay, but, then forget about the "Law Enforcement" you speak of (and military, etc).
You have no problem inflicting violence on others as long as it is done by proxy (law enforcement, military, etc). You feel that because you've "made it" everyone else should piss off and be thankful to wallow in the sewage.
I don't think of things that way.
Call me an idealist. Call me a zealot. Whatever.
I believe in something besides lining my pockets.
Over-the-top Response Guy! Giving "Over-the-Top Responses" since 1970.
I think you misunderstand my purposefully inflammatory rhetoric. I am saying what I am saying in order to arouse a reaction. To point out how everything can't just be about greed! You mistake it as hatred or anger towards Chinese or Indian people. That is not the case.
Let's grant that some jobs moving to lower-paid workers in India, China or whatever is good for the world, for everyone. Now, if that is the case, we want to make that move, that transition as free from artificial obstacles as possible. Right?
OK, along comes these greedy bastard who want to PATENT a method of effecting that transition thereby collecting a royalty (a tax in essence) on that transition. They then "steal" a little bit of wealth from the Chinese or Indian worker as well as from the person who will purchase the products of those same workers.
They do it under a government granted monopoly enforced by the world's largest and most powerful military force in history with a law enforcement infrastructure more advanced than any in history as well.
Why do they get to do that? Where is the justice in that?
Patenting this kind of thing and having it enforced effectively at gun-point is the utmost injustice. It should not be permitted.
If corporations continue to pursue this kind of unjust ways of acquiring more and more wealth, and continue to get away with, and the electorate is unable to put a stop to it, then we, as the beneficiaries of the freedom that our ancestors fought so hard for, are compelled to stand up and put an end to it by the only means left at our disposal.
It's about being a good corporate citizen of the nation and of the world.
Saying, well a corporation exists to make a profit is a cop-out. Of course they do. But, because they have been granted certain privileges by the citizenry, they owe that citizenry certain respect in return.
All of us, each an every one of us, owe dignity and respect to one another in exchange for the same.
Over-the-top Response Guy! Giving "Over-the-Top Responses" since 1970.
Sounds like something they did during WWII helping the Germans track their "human resources".
Read about it at wikipedia
"In 2001, author Edwin Black published IBM and the Holocaust (ISBN 0-609-80899-0), a book that documented how IBM's New York headquarters and CEO Thomas J. Watson acted through its overseas subsidiaries to provide the Third Reich with punch card machines that could help the Nazis to track down the European Jewry (especially in newly conquered territory). "
History of IBM. (2007, September 26). In Wikipedia, The Free Encyclopedia. Retrieved 21:52, September 29, 2007, from http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=History_of_IBM&oldid=160489448
if I patent the process for patenting the process for getting patents, first!
You (everyone) just have to realise that they stole all your money from you and are now leasing it to you at 5% a year.
Money is power, by allowing them to lend your money to you they have taken all the money and all the power.
Deleted
Economics has very little to say about justice and equality. It speaks to how to maximize the wealth, not how it is distributed.
It is up to the people, via their government, to decide what is a fair an equitable distribution while attempting to maximize the overall wealth via economic theory.
Sometimes, this means that balances must be struck such that, perhaps we didn't squeeze every last drop of wealth out of the system. For example, let us say we have something like this:
10% of population controls 30% of wealth (roughly evenly distributed amongst this 10%)
80% of population controls 68% of wealth (roughly evenly distributed amongst the 80%)
10% of population controls 2% of wealth (roughly evenly distributed)
Let us call the overall wealth level of the above 100 units of wealth. Now, we make a change in policy to now have 200 units (double the wealth) with the following ending distribution.
10% controls 69% of wealth (138 units as opposed to 30 units)
80% controls 30% of wealth (60 units total/before 68 units total)
10% controls 1% of wealth (2 units total/was 5 units)
Now, there is in total way more wealth. We've maximized wealth. But, is it a better society?
That is the difference (maybe not so extreme, but you get the idea) between pure economic theory and society tempered by respect and dignity for all its members.
Over-the-top Response Guy! Giving "Over-the-Top Responses" since 1970.
Back on topic - let IBM patent this - its not like the patent will hold up except in the US, so watch how quickly everyone else uses it ...
Let IBM patent it, have them get some sort of exclusive right to offshore business processes, and, then, offshoring will gradually grind to a halt for 20 years because only IBM will be allowed to do it and IBM will screw it up.
This is my sig.
I have this idea...how about I patent the act of peeing or taking a crap. OOOHH...this one is better! I patent Idiocy! Every time someone does something stupid, they have to pay me...
I'll make a fortune! All I have to do is call the USPTO, they'd patent breathing if it was applied for.
So Jesus, Mohammed and Abraham walk into a Bar....
IBM will license this patent for free to the open source community.
...starve them. They make their money off us, off of what we buy, off of what we earn. If we cut our earning and spending to the bone, it cuts their food supply.
Work as little as possible, buy as little as possible.
This requires no organization.
This requires no violence.
This requires no breaking of laws.
This requires no political power.
The only sacrifice is being poor, and we are going to end up that way anyway.
In return, you get ample free time.
Actually, I think you might have something there. It truly is an elegant solution to the problem.
Sometimes, I think those "Bums" who sit around and do nothing (play video games, hang out on the beach, play guitar on street corner) have the best solution to life.
Do the bare minimum. Subsist on the bare minimum.
I have only one problem with this concept. It is better to work hard and produce as much as you can while minimizing your consumption. This is hard. It tends to enrich those who don't deserve it.
What is needed, is to work hard, produce more than you need, and ensure the surplus is fairly used for the benefit of all.
Idealistic you say? I agree.
I would like us to aspire to a higher ideal. Myself included.
Over-the-top Response Guy! Giving "Over-the-Top Responses" since 1970.
I'm in the process of applying for a patent on "A Process for Identifying Products and Services which Fail to Meet Acceptable Standards of Customer Satisfaction, Service, and Communication", and creating a document for presentation to the ISO outlining standards for service. I've also already applied for the process patent on applying for these process patents.
And somebody else provided the telephones to transmit the orders. There are plenty of other people to get angry with that actually knew what was going on instead of getting cranky with the actions of a company more than fifty years ago - there is not a single IBM employee from thoise days still with the company.
You can't do that! I've already patented the double "???" method!
I SUE YOU!
Life is rarely fair. Cherish the moments when there is a right answer.
Here's the formaula that the geniuses at IBM / etc are using for outsourcing jobs:
if ((body-temperature-A == body-temperature-B) && (salary-A salary-B)) {
outsource(B, A);
}
Sadly subtlties like the typical 10-1 (or more) productivity ratios between entry-level fucks and experienced people noticed by anyone actually at all involved in the software industry don't enter into the equation.
Then they wonder why their outsourced projects have such piss-poor productivity and would have been cheaper to do at home. Or, at least they wonder this after a few yars of having been BS'd about how great the outsourcing is working by corporate ass-kissers too weak to tell them the truth.
I think that GM has prior art for sending US jobs to foreign shores.
Microsoft does this, IBM does this, almost every American corporation does this, so why do they do this. You really have to ask yourself that question. The way I look at it is that people have their own mind. There are some people who have a sense of entitlement but don't do much with it. Then there are others out there that are overworked but don't want to broaden their responsibility. Then there are those that take the blame for others mistakes and companies end up losing a valuable resource because of it. The list goes on and on of all the different types of people out there that don't understand what risk is about. Risk isn't about jumping blindly into something only to come out of it saying, "I told you it wouldn't work." It's commitment to having something done that wouldn't have normally been done. People do it all the time but right now we need more of it within the US. People will look towards diversity when what's comfortable fails them. Even leaders of men are not gods. If they don't know how to communicate effectively then that's there problem. We have other things to worry about now. ie to monitor Patent trolls, create patents only to close out and to isolate other industries in the market by revealing their activities and to develop an understanding from a broader range of information within reason. Money can be very tempting but diversifying where that money goes and to what level can complicate things quite a bit. And for all the people who talk about revolution. Well, you know we all want to change the world.
If Windows doesn't play Galactica out of the box, then it is pretty frigging useless. I mean, it's Galactica we're talking about.
Counting the seconds until season 4.
This is my sig.
...so long as it isn't taxable, and I have complete control over who benefits, which is tricky, as you say. Probably more work making sure your labor doesn't get misappropriated than the labor itself.
For this tactic to work, I have to get lots of people doing it, though, and they want a payoff for the stuff they wont be able to buy...hence the free time angle.
I'm proud to say, by slacking, I've cut the government out of 40k in taxes this year. Not too shabby for doing as I damn well please for the most part.
Someone else mentioned that there is too much prior art. Another point is that this is an obvious process, given the current state of the art. A patent is only supposed to be awarded if it si something that is "non-obvious" to someone else in the industry.
http://www.bibblelabs.com/
.CR2 ) images. . . :)
and if you need to fix-up photos,
and are fed-up with the process-sabotage ( for this kind of work ) that The GIMP is,
then TRY the free demo
( which stops working after a few days,
so only install it when you're serious about trying it ).
It is DRASTICALLY quicker than The GIMP for working-with,
it includes a cut-down version of Noise Ninja
( at-least the demo I tried a couple of years ago included a cut-down version. . .
maybe the full-version is in it now. . .
but irregardless, I'm buying the full Pro version in a couple of weeks
to get-at my Canon G9 images camera-RAW (
Bibble rocks.
: )
Try also my gallery: http://photo.net/photos/AntrygRevo
I understand the drive for a business to want to cut down its overhead spending, but reading this was just a reminder about how painful it is to contact the majority of the larger corporations who do provide services in this country to Americans that have Indian or elseware based phone support. But at the same time, when a call center is here in the states, its usually run int he ghetto by the ignorants. Its hard to get the middle class working in a call center in this country but at the same time, Indians are all about earning a little for a lot. Atleast theyre trying.
WWPD - What Would Picard Do?
Telephones? C'mon now, you know that is a lousy analogy compared to a company actively participating in the actual act of tracking people down to be "arrested". With the same silly logic you can blame the guys who made the Nazi's boots. As far as no IBM employee from those days being around....this very same policy is still around in IBM. Individual IBM divisions are expected to comply with the legal requests and desires of the nation in which they are based, without protest, AS LONG AS these do not conflict with the best interests of shareholders. You really have to understand that the allegiance of a public company is to shareholders (by law). IBM Germany did exactly this and would do this tomorrow. They have no allegiance above shareholder profit. IBM Global Services is an umbrella organization run from the United States (sort of), but it is highly fragmented (and actually less centrally controlled due to some policy changes in the last couple of years). IBM has zero allegiance to United States or any country for that matter other than paying the minimum amount of taxes to still be considered a U.S. company and qualify for U.S. Government research grants and contracts. If selling your DNA was legal in some country and IBM did business there, it will happen. If turning over rolls of lists of Jews meant a big payout to IBM shareholders, its done. Why do people think that PUBLICLY TRADED companies are not dangerous to trust in these regards and forget so easily the terrible history many of these companies have when it came to what seems to be an inhumane act VS profit? If you did a psychological workup on a publicly traded company as if it was a person, you would not let it babysit your kids for sure.
Companies from all over the developed world are offshoring.
India, China and now Vietnam are favorite places for offshoring of manufacturing, IT development and almost everything else.
I have been working for a large IT supplier in the UK and their next big system will almost completely be developed in Vietnam. Sure a few brits will write the specs but over 90% of the development will be done in the Hanoi region.
Another project I worked on involved outsourcing to an Indian company. They sent a team of 20 over here for a year. They were still being paid Indian Salaries and they all lived in one 4 bedroom house. These guys were the onsite hackers and the physical systems were located in London. All the 2nd & 3rd level support was done in Bangalore.
I trained one guy to take over my job for 6 months. After I was downsized things went from bad to worse and less than 3 months after I was let go, I was called up by my ex boss. He pleaded for help as several key (and business critical) systems had been down for a week. The Indian guys were totally unable to keep them going. The problem was simple. It had been covered in the handover process but the guy who had been trained was back in India and his replacement was a complete jerk who knew nowt about the systems.
I sorted them out for a decent fee but refused all offers to go back to work there.
I now get less than 50% of my income from IT Dev etc. I have returned to teaching Maths at a local school. How long befoe that gets outsourced?
Please keep Nazis and genocide out of discussions that have nothing to do with the topics. You get a cheap victory in an argument by spitting on the grave of millions - please show some respect instead.
Update:
Bibble Labs does 2.5 or so updates / year, so
I may have to wait 3 more months before getting killer photo-editing of my RAW format files.
Also, I just checked, and the Noise Ninja in the current version ( 4.9.8e ) is a cut-down version,
but if one gets a full-version of Noise Ninja ( which IS available for Linux ),
that full-version gets integrated into your Bibble copy.
Doubly-also, the demo-mode works for 14 days.
The only downside, other-than no current support for the ultimate pocket camera for manual-control freaks
( the G9: http://www.powershot.com/ . . . trustworthy camera-joint fer buyin' stuff: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/ ),
is that there isn't any JPEG2000 support.
Tiff ( 16 or 8 bit ), PNG ( 16 or 8 bit ), 8-bit-JPEG, for output. . .
Cheerses ( & yeah, this is offtopic, but this information does inform, and the perceived hole in Linux ability isn't an actual gap!! :)
Try also my gallery: http://photo.net/photos/AntrygRevo
You can't do that. I've patented the use of simple bold statements for the purpose of a humorous reply!
I SUE YOU!
09F9 1102 9D74 E35B D841 56C5 6356 88C0
Grant a company a patent for TAKING JOBS AWAY from US citizens? Every last one of you should be shot in the head for even CONSIDERING the patent!
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
I think you misunderstand my purposefully inflammatory rhetoric. I am saying what I am saying in order to arouse a reaction.
Is it surprising that your purposefully inflammatory rhetoric has been misunderstood?
Originally you wrote:
My ancestors fought in order to have equitable pay for work, decent working conditions, and something approaching a society where there is a reasonable middle-class. This is the kind of thing that seeks to have the U.S. be like a third-world nation.
It's rather clear that you're talking about the United States and the effect offshoring has on American workers.
But now you say:
They then "steal" a little bit of wealth from the Chinese or Indian worker as well as from the person who will purchase the products of those same workers.
So now it's no longer about protecting American workers. It's about protecting overseas workers and American consumers?
Your assessment of the sought after patents in question values them far too highly. The fact that IBM has patents on certain methods of conducting offshoring won't deny other companies the ability to offshore, given that the patents *if granted* are going to be narrowly tailored. There is a tremendous amount of prior art in the offshoring business, and there are are already plenty of companies engaged in the practice. Plus, business method claims aren't easy to patent. The USPTO scrutinizes them very carefully, and even if granted it can take four years or more, by which time the claimed methods may not even be of much use to IBM or anyone else. An application for a patent like this is really low on the list of things to be freaked out about.
Then again, based on your earlier comments, I'm not sure if you actually support offshoring or are opposed to it. You seem to be opposed to large corporations making money, regardless of whether they're offshoring or not. Maybe you should be directing your fervor at corporate personhood instead of patent claims.
Read the EFF's Fair Use FAQ
I have a real problem with the idea that Corporations are beholden to nothing more than profit. I don't wish to deny them the ability to make a profit, but, I find it reprehensible that so often, corporations have no sense of "citizenship" yet want to have "rights" like a person.
They seem to lack a sense of responsibility. I guess many people are the same as well.
You're right, my reaction is probably an overreaction, but, the concept implied in this patent just seems like such a case of stabbing the "People" in the back.
Over-the-top Response Guy! Giving "Over-the-Top Responses" since 1970.
except for the 1/10 salary part.
I expect a large number of the Fortune 1000 to be run out of India and China in the next decade and the majority in the next generation.
With enough "core" business processes offshored, just what is the value-add of US management?
Tech Public Policy stuff
with Vista and ME as examples of prior art.
Tech Public Policy stuff
And even if you did, you can't fight economic realities, these will bite you one way or another.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
Economics is a race to the bottom. Deal with it.
People are always trying to save money, this includes buyers voting with their dollars buying cheap stuff made in China or corporations outsourcing elsewhere.
You talk nonsense numbers about Ohio or whatever small spot in the US you are referring to, but anybody that has been to both the US and India knows which country is in more desperate need of those jobs, and given the economic disparities between both countries these jobs are flowing naturally to where they make the global economic system more efficient. No bullshit trolling about terrorism will change all this, even if they are not idle treaths, and even in the completely ludicrous scenario in which your "revolution" wins.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
If you don't want US companies to offshore jobs (note, they are not US's jobs, US's citizens haven't got a birth right to jobs created by *multinational* corporations incorporated in the US) then I am pretty sure you neither want those same companies stablishing offices in other countries and transferring profits (and thus paying taxes) in the US.
Want capitalism? Then it is time we all embrace the full package and cut the bullshit.
You don't like capitalism? Look at the old USSR, old China or North Korea for guidance and get ready to starve to death.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
http://advice.cio.com/stephanie_overby/ibm_tries_to_patent_offshoring
Thousands? German population during WWII was not in the thousands and the German people have rightfully accepted responsibility to this day. Who is trivializing here? I did not bring up the subject of IBM's collusion with the Nazi regime, so I am not sure why you are accusing me of doing so. In either event, reminding people of the Holocaust and all the parties that played a roll is not spitting on peoples graves but warns people that such any event could happen again and must never be allowed to do so. You minimizing the numbers of people responsible to a relative small number of madmen is a holocaust deniers trademark. The average German citizen at that time was well aware of Jewish prosecution by Germany and the numbers were far higher than a few thousand. IBM did not sell Nazis filing cabinets. They sold them lists of Jewish citizens, singled out because of the fact they were Jewish. IBM did this. IBM was aware of how the information they provided would be used and the ultimate fate of the men women and children - CHILDREN on this list, they simply did not care as money was involved. This is a key point, I think we actually agree that its silly to blame the folks who make a telephone that a Nazi may have inadvertently used in a war crime. But I am not sure your aware of just how much IBM was in cahoots with what the Nazis were doing with the information and what they wanted it for, as well as how ruthlessly efficient IBM was in gathering this information for them. This information provided would be clearly used, even to a moron, in a criminal act. I would urge your to read the book and draw your conclusions based on this.
I replied to what I beleive is the idiot that did and you picked up on the irrelevant discussion - probably dragged in due to the emotive nature. There really is no way to go but down - invoking the spirits of dead children on an irrelevant issue and calling me a moron is most likely not the way you behave offline. Misunderstanding what I meant about thousands of actual vicious murderers is fair enough I suppose - equally blaming the murderers and the unaware that provide them with a filing system is really an insult to the dead.