I fully agree with you. What I wanted to point out is that you don't need nine nines over 24/7. The same over 24/5 would be great, and I guess would be significantly cheaper.
Well thanks for the effort but apart from 'because I told you so' you gave me nothing of substance, because (I told you so now):
1) Windows can be scripted, 'clumsy' and 'awkward' are not a relevant metric, they are your personal impression. 2) Handling a serious 24/7 (or 5) operation arranges all sorts of 2 AM calls a fraction of which are related specifically to OS issues. (i.e. Windows or not you're gonna have them) 3) Your anecdote gives no detail on what was the issue and in what way was it related to SQL Server itself.
I got your point, Windows sucks, we can move on now.
Snow Leopard is a kind of "I'm not gay" gay name. Vista too, that's why it failed with general populace.
Windows 7 is a step in the right direction. I expect them to name the next one Windows.NT8.2.1043_X64. That's a cool name and definitely not gay. It would also ring nice with FOSS crowd.
I guess I shouldn't reply to this one but since you already exposed me as MS shill, what the hell...
In what way(s) is Windows obsolete and which competitor(s) are more advanced in each particular case?
Joking aside, I manage IT for a fairly large internet based "small business" (80-100 employees, couple thousand online clients, real time operations). We use pretty much everything, and I am willing to try whatever new comes along. There are places I go for cheap, there are places I go for easy, and of course there are places I go for fucking rock solid and gimme two of them.
Windows + various MS Servers has its place and while it is definitely _not cheap_ once you start to grow, nor is it extremely robust (talking about OS here, SQL Server never, ever, failed me), it covers a lot of ground.
I agree with you that running an infrastructure operation doesn't allow for fuckups, but that is not a market where they are a clear cut leader. What I was talking about is cheap, easy, good-enough market.
TCO is an interesting metric and something a lot of non technical management types can relate to. However, very few people, at least in small business market, look at it as _total cost_. What TCO stands for there is 'how much will it cost me to buy it, get it running, train my people to use it and how much will I have to pay yearly, either in support contract fees or in permanent position salary, to keep it running', i.e. 'how much money should I budget for it _this year_?'
If you look at this closely, whether your support personnel have to fuck with the system on daily basis, or just check it up occasionally, it doesn't matter, cause it's all included in running costs. However, getting it running and training employees are significant costs few are willing to pay for up front. The point that support costs can potentially go down with a more robust system is also lost, and frankly never is a very strong point in such a dynamic field.
Ease of use is their no 1 selling point, no one comes even close. If there were easily deployable and maintainable alternatives to their products they would at least start penetrating the small business market, which is where easy & cheap are the king.
Ever wonder why Random Small Company uses Windows stack all the way when they don't _really_ need full blown Active Directory, Exchange & SQL Server? It is not because they're stupid and don't know better. It's because it is _cheaper_ to deploy & maintain SBS with 5 licenses and have Joe The Point & Click Administrator come show them how to click their way through 10 scenarios they'll need to handle than to look for, employ and be afraid of Linux (or whatever) Guru, not to mention that they'll need to retrain everyone from Office stack to whatever combination they'd need. And what for? Have you even seen what is the price of Small Business Server? As I said, not even close.
And when it gets close, MS will start giving SBS for free. Can't beat them on price. You have to beat them on easy.
Yeah but sometimes you just gotta roll with it. That being said, does anyone know how to sort out annoyingly short alt-text popup time in IE 7. God forbid xkcd alt-text is a more than a one liner.
You keep saying "C and C++" as if they are Siamese twins and should share the same fate. They are not. C is basically a glorified macro assembler and will never, ever, wane. When you talk to the metal, you will do it in C. When you do embedded, you will do it in C. When you need hand optimized, lightning fast code, you will do it in C. For things that it should be used for, C looks and feels good.
Current state of C++ on the other hand is the result of decades of new ideas in programming being shoveled down C's throat. It can surely take it, but it looks ugly, feels ugly and will not get any better. C++ is obsolete. It might not die any time soon but it will slowly be replaced by more modern languages.
It is not destroying _local_ knowledge. However it makes it possible not to learn a lot of useless _not local_ knowledge and still be able to move around.
Slashdot Mirror
Expect all sorts of products to be mentioned along the lines of
Yo dawg, I herd you like Windoze 7, so I put an superfly BIOS in your MoBo so you can chill while you boot.
And that's bandwagon marketing for you today.
I fully agree with you.
What I wanted to point out is that you don't need nine nines over 24/7. The same over 24/5 would be great, and I guess would be significantly cheaper.
Well thanks for the effort but apart from 'because I told you so' you gave me nothing of substance, because (I told you so now):
1) Windows can be scripted, 'clumsy' and 'awkward' are not a relevant metric, they are your personal impression.
2) Handling a serious 24/7 (or 5) operation arranges all sorts of 2 AM calls a fraction of which are related specifically to OS issues. (i.e. Windows or not you're gonna have them)
3) Your anecdote gives no detail on what was the issue and in what way was it related to SQL Server itself.
I got your point, Windows sucks, we can move on now.
Snow Leopard is a kind of "I'm not gay" gay name. Vista too, that's why it failed with general populace.
Windows 7 is a step in the right direction. I expect them to name the next one Windows.NT8.2.1043_X64.
That's a cool name and definitely not gay. It would also ring nice with FOSS crowd.
You don't need nine nines for trading platforms. Every weekend can be (and often is) a happy hour for your maintenance guys.
That should be BUT what the hell, but what the hell... :)
I guess I shouldn't reply to this one but since you already exposed me as MS shill, what the hell...
In what way(s) is Windows obsolete and which competitor(s) are more advanced in each particular case?
Joking aside, I manage IT for a fairly large internet based "small business" (80-100 employees, couple thousand online clients, real time operations). We use pretty much everything, and I am willing to try whatever new comes along. There are places I go for cheap, there are places I go for easy, and of course there are places I go for fucking rock solid and gimme two of them.
Windows + various MS Servers has its place and while it is definitely _not cheap_ once you start to grow, nor is it extremely robust (talking about OS here, SQL Server never, ever, failed me), it covers a lot of ground.
I agree with you that running an infrastructure operation doesn't allow for fuckups, but that is not a market where they are a clear cut leader. What I was talking about is cheap, easy, good-enough market.
TCO is an interesting metric and something a lot of non technical management types can relate to. However, very few people, at least in small business market, look at it as _total cost_.
What TCO stands for there is 'how much will it cost me to buy it, get it running, train my people to use it and how much will I have to pay yearly, either in support contract fees or in permanent position salary, to keep it running', i.e. 'how much money should I budget for it _this year_?'
If you look at this closely, whether your support personnel have to fuck with the system on daily basis, or just check it up occasionally, it doesn't matter, cause it's all included in running costs. However, getting it running and training employees are significant costs few are willing to pay for up front. The point that support costs can potentially go down with a more robust system is also lost, and frankly never is a very strong point in such a dynamic field.
I never said .NET is an innovation.
Wow, that's some heavy shit you've been smoking.
Ease of use is their no 1 selling point, no one comes even close. If there were easily deployable and maintainable alternatives to their products they would at least start penetrating the small business market, which is where easy & cheap are the king.
Ever wonder why Random Small Company uses Windows stack all the way when they don't _really_ need full blown Active Directory, Exchange & SQL Server? It is not because they're stupid and don't know better. It's because it is _cheaper_ to deploy & maintain SBS with 5 licenses and have Joe The Point & Click Administrator come show them how to click their way through 10 scenarios they'll need to handle than to look for, employ and be afraid of Linux (or whatever) Guru, not to mention that they'll need to retrain everyone from Office stack to whatever combination they'd need. And what for? Have you even seen what is the price of Small Business Server?
As I said, not even close.
And when it gets close, MS will start giving SBS for free. Can't beat them on price. You have to beat them on easy.
Yeah but sometimes you just gotta roll with it.
That being said, does anyone know how to sort out annoyingly short alt-text popup time in IE 7. God forbid xkcd alt-text is a more than a one liner.
And that is a non sequitur, or moon is not an asteroid.
Thank you, I'll be here all day.
Oh man!
These days Mac is just a x86 PC in a nice box. Wipe the disk, install Windows and deploy AD. Lather, rinse, repeat.
Sheesh.
All viruses are "immune" to antibiotics.
It won't happen just because the big players in the industry want to move to selling services.
Resistance is futile, you will be commoditized.
It's not broken, it doesn't need fixing.
Move along, nothing to see here.
I like the way you presented the racquet the Saudis are paying to the USA. As if they need protection from Kuwait, Oman, Qatar and the likes.
When exactly is Twitter extremely handy? I fail to see any advantage to it, ever.
If you think iPhone is "the hottest thing around" I guess you don't live in Europe.
This message was created on the best phone on Earth, Nokia E71.
You keep saying "C and C++" as if they are Siamese twins and should share the same fate. They are not.
C is basically a glorified macro assembler and will never, ever, wane. When you talk to the metal, you will do it in C. When you do embedded, you will do it in C. When you need hand optimized, lightning fast code, you will do it in C. For things that it should be used for, C looks and feels good.
Current state of C++ on the other hand is the result of decades of new ideas in programming being shoveled down C's throat. It can surely take it, but it looks ugly, feels ugly and will not get any better. C++ is obsolete. It might not die any time soon but it will slowly be replaced by more modern languages.
It is not destroying _local_ knowledge. However it makes it possible not to learn a lot of useless _not local_ knowledge and still be able to move around.
Ms. Le Guin: "I thought, who do these people think they are? Why do they think they can violate my copyright and get away with it?"
This is really ironic, coming from the author of the following (great!) book.
Say what you will but compared to Java, C# is beautiful. And yes I do use both of them.
In the first place, maybe you do not have the needed runtime installed.
And then applications might fail because they are crap.
I have yet to see application failing due to runtime bug.
So what?
I find this Microsoft fixation ridiculous. Why don't we hear more about Samsung free or Canon free or Adobe free? Computer free, anyone?