Nobody cares about what happens to the workers who get fired. You're talking to (mostly) Americans here... Unless its thier job being cut, they just dont care...:-(
I must admit, I'm very surprised that it has come to this. I had expected the xIAAs to resort to blackmale/extortion/kneecapping to get the root name servers (in the USA) and such to just stop serving DNS records for them... you know, the whole reason everyone outside the USA is against the US Government retaining some form of control over the root servers?
I think you are dead-on with this... I'd rather see the various oppressions easened-up than see some copyright crap passed. Frankly, China's loose stance on copyright/"IP"/etc is one of the few things I find redeeming about thier system.
RE: law also bans "the production, import and supply of devices capable of evading or breaching technical measures of copyright protection".
So the PRC has banned all PCs and other general use computers? SHHHHHHH!!! Stop giving ideas to the XIAAs !;-)
because if the law is worded that -all- traffic is given equal priority, then providers would be required to let -all- traffic through, including all the spam we love and the ddos attacks by all the zomdows botnets...
If they find a way to word the legislation in a way that allows providers to respond to DDOS type attacks and block/slow/etc that traffic, yet will prevent them from engaging in lame tierd-service shit and collecting fees from both ends of a connection, then I will be pleased. Tho I wont hold my breath for that to happen....
This is one of the reasons I truly despise the economics of commercial software... ugh... every word of the post is correct. $DIETY, I hate commercial software....
FP?
I'll take my next kid with larger-than-average height, enhanced frontal lobes, a natural resistance to the polio virus, OH and dont forget the 20/10 vision!
Office 97?
Office XP?
Office 2002?
Office 2000?
Office 2007?
Forward-portable to future versions?
I'm quite sure this is a good thing, but at the same time I'm quite sure it wont work well for many many MS Office users...
Didnt george lucas come out years back with some rhetoric about how DVD was tehsux and lucasfilm would only pump out VCDs or some shit like that?.. yeah.. good plan..
Ok, lets sum up the arguments:
1) The specs suck.
2) It doesnt need big specs because the target market is lower/middle class in China that dont currently own a PC.
3) Linux will effect it poorly somehow, or it will poorly effect Linux.
4) Its a no-brainer for a Chinese budget PC to use Linux, since the CPPRC has been pushing for a domestic IT industry based around Linux/FOSS for several years now.
5) Its probably based off of that "Dragon" mips chip we heard about a year or two ago.
6) Could be good in other parts of the world for a "thin client" type station or simple 4th grader net terminal... so when the kiddo breaks it, its no big deal.
7) OMFG CHINA COMMUNIST EVIL! FREE TIBET! BASH THE COMMIES AND THIER EVIL RISC BASED HERESY!
8) Poor people in China dont need this, they need $CONSUMER_GOOD_X
9) This cant compete with Dell.
10) Nothing to see here, move along.
I had thought from the headline that this place was going to try a sharing/cooperation based economy of some form rather than a greed/competition based economy like we currently have.
Sigh, I guess we'll have to wait a few thousand more years....
In theory, if you run the mobo outside its normal case, you could throw a supported-on-sparc sun framebuffer in it and have things work.... not that I've got one handy nor would be willing to try and splice it into an atx chassis or whatnot....
Never underestimate the ability/need of *nix geeks to replace some perfectly-functional *nix setup with a barely-working Microsoft Windows Certified Partner Solution, when thier PHB tells them too and they dont want to get fired...
....
Ok, I have to go hide between the server racks and cry now.
Ive talked with Schwartz about this semi-directly (in a webchat of about 15 people), and explained that all the sun (specifically, all the sparc) hardware me and my company own is -all- purchased second hand off of ebay. Servers and desktops. The prices are simply too high. He seemed to understand, and pointed out that from his desk the big challenge was developing a sub-$1000 sparc system to the economy-of-scale where they could make cash from it enough to justify the investment. I can understand this, but I really would like to see them take the concept they started with the SB1500/2500 where they were pc-ish systems that just happened to be sparc. What I'd -really- like to see is a Sparc powered desktop (Fujitsu Sparc64 VI anyone?) with a pci-express subsystem, ddr2 ram, sata, and the capability to take "off the shelf" pc componants (like vid card, and such).... but I know im dreaming:-(
Schwartz did seem to get the point that developing a "whitebox" market would be a good thing. I'm wondering what/who has held him back?
I know he isnt popular with the/. crowd, but Schwartz -IS- popular with the Fortune500 CEO crowd... I've seen the guy work a room, he comes across very charismatically (way WAY more than McNealy ever has) and the dumb PHB/CxO types seem to really take an interest in what he's saying.
Now, I'm no fanboy of either one, but McNealy is probably better suited to chair thier R&D or something than he is to being CEO these days. Schwartz at least would put a more energetic face on the company and (one could hope) re-vitalize thier core competancies.
Now, I know im dreaming, but maybe of McNealy got out of the top slot, Sun could/would FINALLY ditch thier 4000% margin policy and start selling crap that I (me personally, or the company I work for) could actually afford to buy!
The most common excuse for RTFMism is the attitude "reading and learning how will do them more good than if I just give them the answer. Let him learn how to fish and be fed tomorrow when he has the next problem"
The problem with this is varied. Firstly, not everyone learns well from reading overly dry technical documentation (which is true of almost all computer documentation, not just linux stuff). Some people learn best by being shown, or told. Some people learn best by tinkering. Others learn well from charts and graphs. The point is, barking at someone to RTFM doesnt help them at all if the FM is gibberish to them. The FM being gibberish shouldnt preclude them from using Linux!
Secondly, simply is time constraints. Many people asking on IRC or mailing lists (usually IRC) are doing so because they are in a hurry. I used to work as phone-support/sys-admin at a small two-town dialup ISP which ran exclusivly off of FreeBSD. The owner and other been-there-longer-than-me admins were very far into the "RTFM" category. So far in fact that many times while I had a customer on hold (OR IN THE OFFICE!!!) and I needed some minor help to fix the problem (how to change an email alias, reset passwords, basic stuff.. I was new-ish then) I would be given zero assistance except for one of them to point (or more often blankly stare) at the office bookshelf. While a customer was on hold. Now you can argue that I was incompotant and shouldnt have had my job, but that isnt the point; the point is to illustrate the degree and severity of the "unix snob" mentality that many of the most experienced users have. We often joked (of the owner) that if the building was burning down and we asked him where the fire extingisher was kept, he'd refer us to the building blueprints.
Third problem is the FM's themselves... many times the FM is outdated or non-existant, but trying to inform RTFMguy of this usually draws more flame, or "then update it!" comments... as if a guy asking for help would be able to update the documentation... The "RTFM" or "UTSL" is often so reflexive that they dont even check to see if the FM exists before saying it.....
Seen it. Had it said to me. I'm a 8+ year linux/unix user/admin but I must confess my m@d $k11lz with routing (think ospf and bgp) arent quite at the "routing god" level yet. Last year routing for my/28 got busted. One of the other admins (who knew more about routing) busted it. When I tried, and failed, to correct the problem I asked him for help. He said, and I quote; "Its a problem with ospf.. I'll leave this one as an exercise for the reader.".... after about six hours (im serious) of reading low-level crap at his advice which turned out to have nothing to do with routing, I finally found the problem and corrected it. He had made a typo.
The whole time, the "RTFM" guy was in the same room trying not to laugh.
Many of these people (admittedly, myself included) sometimes dont have the social sense NOT to tell people to RTFM right to thier face.... even fellow *nix users.
Slashdot Mirror
What? Everyone take note, I think we have isolated Tony Snow's slashdot ID ...
Nobody cares about what happens to the workers who get fired. You're talking to (mostly) Americans here... Unless its thier job being cut, they just dont care... :-(
And to think, just yesterday I was pointed at thier jobs page by a friend...
I must admit, I'm very surprised that it has come to this. I had expected the xIAAs to resort to blackmale/extortion/kneecapping to get the root name servers (in the USA) and such to just stop serving DNS records for them... you know, the whole reason everyone outside the USA is against the US Government retaining some form of control over the root servers?
I think you are dead-on with this ... I'd rather see the various oppressions easened-up than see some copyright crap passed. Frankly, China's loose stance on copyright/"IP"/etc is one of the few things I find redeeming about thier system.
RE: law also bans "the production, import and supply of devices capable of evading or breaching technical measures of copyright protection". ;-)
So the PRC has banned all PCs and other general use computers? SHHHHHHH!!! Stop giving ideas to the XIAAs !
because if the law is worded that -all- traffic is given equal priority, then providers would be required to let -all- traffic through, including all the spam we love and the ddos attacks by all the zomdows botnets...
If they find a way to word the legislation in a way that allows providers to respond to DDOS type attacks and block/slow/etc that traffic, yet will prevent them from engaging in lame tierd-service shit and collecting fees from both ends of a connection, then I will be pleased. Tho I wont hold my breath for that to happen....
This is one of the reasons I truly despise the economics of commercial software ... ugh ... every word of the post is correct. $DIETY, I hate commercial software....
FP?
I got dibs on making the sun grid talk too gentoo/distcc !! ;-)
This Just In: NSA Whistleblower's body found dead in burlap sack on side of road only hours after his identiy made public...
I'll take my next kid with larger-than-average height, enhanced frontal lobes, a natural resistance to the polio virus, OH and dont forget the 20/10 vision!
Office 97? Office XP? Office 2002? Office 2000? Office 2007? Forward-portable to future versions? I'm quite sure this is a good thing, but at the same time I'm quite sure it wont work well for many many MS Office users...
You mean to tell me Obi-Wan doesnt shoot first?
WTF?!
Didnt george lucas come out years back with some rhetoric about how DVD was tehsux and lucasfilm would only pump out VCDs or some shit like that? .. yeah .. good plan ..
To Quote Zap Brannigan from "The Problem With Popplers": ... Shhhh ... '
'People Of Earth
Ok, lets sum up the arguments:
1) The specs suck. 2) It doesnt need big specs because the target market is lower/middle class in China that dont currently own a PC. 3) Linux will effect it poorly somehow, or it will poorly effect Linux. 4) Its a no-brainer for a Chinese budget PC to use Linux, since the CPPRC has been pushing for a domestic IT industry based around Linux/FOSS for several years now. 5) Its probably based off of that "Dragon" mips chip we heard about a year or two ago. 6) Could be good in other parts of the world for a "thin client" type station or simple 4th grader net terminal... so when the kiddo breaks it, its no big deal. 7) OMFG CHINA COMMUNIST EVIL! FREE TIBET! BASH THE COMMIES AND THIER EVIL RISC BASED HERESY! 8) Poor people in China dont need this, they need $CONSUMER_GOOD_X 9) This cant compete with Dell. 10) Nothing to see here, move along.
I had thought from the headline that this place was going to try a sharing/cooperation based economy of some form rather than a greed/competition based economy like we currently have.
Sigh, I guess we'll have to wait a few thousand more years....
In theory, if you run the mobo outside its normal case, you could throw a supported-on-sparc sun framebuffer in it and have things work .... not that I've got one handy nor would be willing to try and splice it into an atx chassis or whatnot ....
Never underestimate the ability/need of *nix geeks to replace some perfectly-functional *nix setup with a barely-working Microsoft Windows Certified Partner Solution, when thier PHB tells them too and they dont want to get fired ...
....
Ok, I have to go hide between the server racks and cry now.
Ive talked with Schwartz about this semi-directly (in a webchat of about 15 people), and explained that all the sun (specifically, all the sparc) hardware me and my company own is -all- purchased second hand off of ebay. Servers and desktops. The prices are simply too high. He seemed to understand, and pointed out that from his desk the big challenge was developing a sub-$1000 sparc system to the economy-of-scale where they could make cash from it enough to justify the investment. I can understand this, but I really would like to see them take the concept they started with the SB1500/2500 where they were pc-ish systems that just happened to be sparc. What I'd -really- like to see is a Sparc powered desktop (Fujitsu Sparc64 VI anyone?) with a pci-express subsystem, ddr2 ram, sata, and the capability to take "off the shelf" pc componants (like vid card, and such) .... but I know im dreaming :-(
Schwartz did seem to get the point that developing a "whitebox" market would be a good thing. I'm wondering what/who has held him back?
I know he isnt popular with the /. crowd, but Schwartz -IS- popular with the Fortune500 CEO crowd... I've seen the guy work a room, he comes across very charismatically (way WAY more than McNealy ever has) and the dumb PHB/CxO types seem to really take an interest in what he's saying.
Now, I'm no fanboy of either one, but McNealy is probably better suited to chair thier R&D or something than he is to being CEO these days. Schwartz at least would put a more energetic face on the company and (one could hope) re-vitalize thier core competancies.
Now, I know im dreaming, but maybe of McNealy got out of the top slot, Sun could/would FINALLY ditch thier 4000% margin policy and start selling crap that I (me personally, or the company I work for) could actually afford to buy!
The most common excuse for RTFMism is the attitude "reading and learning how will do them more good than if I just give them the answer. Let him learn how to fish and be fed tomorrow when he has the next problem" ... as if a guy asking for help would be able to update the documentation... The "RTFM" or "UTSL" is often so reflexive that they dont even check to see if the FM exists before saying it .....
The problem with this is varied. Firstly, not everyone learns well from reading overly dry technical documentation (which is true of almost all computer documentation, not just linux stuff). Some people learn best by being shown, or told. Some people learn best by tinkering. Others learn well from charts and graphs. The point is, barking at someone to RTFM doesnt help them at all if the FM is gibberish to them. The FM being gibberish shouldnt preclude them from using Linux!
Secondly, simply is time constraints. Many people asking on IRC or mailing lists (usually IRC) are doing so because they are in a hurry. I used to work as phone-support/sys-admin at a small two-town dialup ISP which ran exclusivly off of FreeBSD. The owner and other been-there-longer-than-me admins were very far into the "RTFM" category. So far in fact that many times while I had a customer on hold (OR IN THE OFFICE!!!) and I needed some minor help to fix the problem (how to change an email alias, reset passwords, basic stuff.. I was new-ish then) I would be given zero assistance except for one of them to point (or more often blankly stare) at the office bookshelf. While a customer was on hold. Now you can argue that I was incompotant and shouldnt have had my job, but that isnt the point; the point is to illustrate the degree and severity of the "unix snob" mentality that many of the most experienced users have. We often joked (of the owner) that if the building was burning down and we asked him where the fire extingisher was kept, he'd refer us to the building blueprints.
Third problem is the FM's themselves... many times the FM is outdated or non-existant, but trying to inform RTFMguy of this usually draws more flame, or "then update it!" comments
Seen it. Had it said to me. I'm a 8+ year linux/unix user/admin but I must confess my m@d $k11lz with routing (think ospf and bgp) arent quite at the "routing god" level yet. Last year routing for my /28 got busted. One of the other admins (who knew more about routing) busted it. When I tried, and failed, to correct the problem I asked him for help. He said, and I quote; "Its a problem with ospf .. I'll leave this one as an exercise for the reader." .... after about six hours (im serious) of reading low-level crap at his advice which turned out to have nothing to do with routing, I finally found the problem and corrected it. He had made a typo.
The whole time, the "RTFM" guy was in the same room trying not to laugh.
Many of these people (admittedly, myself included) sometimes dont have the social sense NOT to tell people to RTFM right to thier face.... even fellow *nix users.
They'd throw in an AMD Athlon FX-57 ......