Slashdot Mirror

Try the Australian Federal election, November 2007. http://www.aec.gov.au/

All that glitters ...
http://www.aec.gov.au/Parties_and_Representatives/Party_Registration/Registered_parties/sol.htm
http://www.asic.gov.au/asic/asic.nsf/byheadline/02%2F377+ASIC+accepts+enforceable+undertaking+from+Mr+Berge+Der+Sarkissian?openDocument

...votes much quicker than you think, with the right system.

Here in Oz, we can have some pretty lengthy ballots, e.g. the Senate Ballot here in Queensland in the 2005 federal election had 50 names on it (see this page for a sample ballot).

I prefer to allocate my preferences myself, so I number below the line. Which requires ranking all 50 candidates in the order I want to place them. I usually put half a dozen names at the top (i.e. 1-6 or so), half a dozen more at the bottom (in this case, 45-50), then number the ones in the middle more or less randomly. :-)

My point is, it takes me about, oh, two minutes, tops, to do this, as well as fill out the House of Representatives ballot for my local electorate, and any other ballot/referendum/whatever they give us.

Ballots don't have to be confusing when they're long. They can be simple to understand, and quick to fill out. They are also quick to count - it's rare that the election outcome isn't known within 6 hours of the polls closing here.

The thing that I find most strange about your mega-ballots in the US, is the insistence on putting every item to be voted onto the one ballot paper. Why not use multiple sheets? One for President, one for Congress, one for Senate, one for State stuff, one for local stuff. Yeah, sure, it means you need to fill out five ballots instead of one. But you can be damn sure that your vote for President isn't going to be thrown out because you made a mistake on the thirteenth local ordinance vote, and it's not like it takes you any longer to fill them out.

Plus it's a bit quicker to vote that way. How long do you think it'd take to count votes for President, if the folks doing the counting only had to check that one of the (e.g.) four or five boxes had a "1" or a tick or cross in it?

The most astounding thing I ever read was when I found out that a polling place in the US might have a 2-3 hour long queue, and yet register less than a thousand votes cast on the whole of election day. What's with that? I don't think I've ever had to wait more than five minutes, and we probably have five to ten thousand people voting at each polling place.

Face it. Your voting systems are, in general, horribly dysfunctional. Get some professionals to show you how to get it running smoothly.

...votes much quicker than you think, with the right system.

Here in Oz, we can have some pretty lengthy ballots, e.g. the Senate Ballot here in Queensland in the 2005 federal election had 50 names on it (see this page for a sample ballot).

I prefer to allocate my preferences myself, so I number below the line. Which requires ranking all 50 candidates in the order I want to place them. I usually put half a dozen names at the top (i.e. 1-6 or so), half a dozen more at the bottom (in this case, 45-50), then number the ones in the middle more or less randomly. :-)

My point is, it takes me about, oh, two minutes, tops, to do this, as well as fill out the House of Representatives ballot for my local electorate, and any other ballot/referendum/whatever they give us.

Ballots don't have to be confusing when they're long. They can be simple to understand, and quick to fill out. They are also quick to count - it's rare that the election outcome isn't known within 6 hours of the polls closing here.

The thing that I find most strange about your mega-ballots in the US, is the insistence on putting every item to be voted onto the one ballot paper. Why not use multiple sheets? One for President, one for Congress, one for Senate, one for State stuff, one for local stuff. Yeah, sure, it means you need to fill out five ballots instead of one. But you can be damn sure that your vote for President isn't going to be thrown out because you made a mistake on the thirteenth local ordinance vote, and it's not like it takes you any longer to fill them out.

Plus it's a bit quicker to vote that way. How long do you think it'd take to count votes for President, if the folks doing the counting only had to check that one of the (e.g.) four or five boxes had a "1" or a tick or cross in it?

The most astounding thing I ever read was when I found out that a polling place in the US might have a 2-3 hour long queue, and yet register less than a thousand votes cast on the whole of election day. What's with that? I don't think I've ever had to wait more than five minutes, and we probably have five to ten thousand people voting at each polling place.

Face it. Your voting systems are, in general, horribly dysfunctional. Get some professionals to show you how to get it running smoothly.

I'd respond by pointing out that we don't yet have electronic voting in Australia. We use pencil and paper, and the results of an election are normally available several hours after the close of voting.

At this year's federal election there will be a trial of e-voting for vision-impaired voters and overseas defence force personnel - for and overview see the Australian Electoral Commission site.

40% of them voted for him directly, and another 6% for the national party with which they have a formal alliance. Due to the allocation of preferences this allowed them to ultimately win power. But you could not say that the majority of voters directly voted for him at the last election.

He obtained 49.89% of the direct vote in his electorate of Bennelong in 2004. He obtained 54.33% of the two-candidate preferred vote. (Source) What you are talking about are the overall results for the party of which he is the leader: the Liberal party. Please do not confuse the Americans who do, in fact, vote directly for their president in a presidential election. Our prime minister is merely the leader of the party (or coalition) that has the majority of seats in the House of Representatives.

Sadly, it would seem that John Howard did forget the horror of war when he chose to support the invasion of Iraq.

In the face of GWB's "if you're not for us you're again' us" attitude, do you really think that (insert Labor party leader of your choice) would have done any different? Maybe you do, in which case you're way less cynical about politics in general than I am. I think if we had a Labor government, we'd be complaining about a slightly different set of things, but I'm not convinced that Iraq would be any different.

Anyway, for the majority of Australians who didn't actually vote for John Howard at the last election, I think we are entitled to grumble a little.

It's always the prerogative of the losing party (and their supporters) to say, "things would be better now if you'd just let us do it our way" -- no proof required.

I predict an interesting time in Aussie politics in about 3 years. Then, Payback time.

In any case, I doubt that copyright issues will rate a mention in the federal election. The touchpoint issue for Australians right now is climate change.

I think "international observers" is a more accurate term, since they judge the "fairness" of the election, even if they wanted to they don't have the power to regulate elections.

The idea espoused by the GP is to set up a bunch of public servants that use well understood principles and procedures to run a "fair election". The important part when setting up such an authority is to give them enough teeth to make them independent of political whims. It's not a new idea, it is already done for the reserve bank, weights and measures, and other essential bipartisan services. Australia has such a system and it works, they sent diebold packing when they tried peddling their paperless machines over here.

Actually in Australia voting is compulsory. No vote, you get fined. Pretty trivial amount, maybe a couple of tens of dollars, but a fine nonetheless. So every four years or so about 95% of the electorate show up and fill in a number of ballot papers for the national government (about the same frequency for state and local government although IIRC local is not compulsory) http://www.aec.gov.au/_content/What/voting/turnout /index.htm and between 3 and 6 percent of votes are informal. Some discussion of informal voting http://www.aec.gov.au/_content/How/research/papers /paper1/index.htm

Actually in Australia voting is compulsory. No vote, you get fined. Pretty trivial amount, maybe a couple of tens of dollars, but a fine nonetheless. So every four years or so about 95% of the electorate show up and fill in a number of ballot papers for the national government (about the same frequency for state and local government although IIRC local is not compulsory) http://www.aec.gov.au/_content/What/voting/turnout /index.htm and between 3 and 6 percent of votes are informal. Some discussion of informal voting http://www.aec.gov.au/_content/How/research/papers /paper1/index.htm

If we don't have a First past the post system then what do you call it?

The Commonwealth House of Representatives (Lower House) uses Preferential Voting, with full transfer of preferences.
The Commonwealth Senate (Upper House) uses Proportional Representation (Single Transferable Vote), with group ticket voting ("above-the-line" voting.)

See page 24 of this document for the systems used for state elections.

Actually I thought the same as you, that voting is not compulsary but turning at the booth was, but ... the aec website says differently
compulsory_voting

In Australia, general elections are not only held over several weeks, but voting is compulsory. See here, mate.

in australia in our receent elections we had a live tally room http://vtr.aec.gov.au/. i spent a little bit of time watching the results as they where counted.

So have you any evidence of 50% of the people in Australia voting randomly?

The current counting in my electorate shows that 6% of people didn't bother voting correctly either intentionally because they don't legally have to actually vote, or because they can't write the numbers 1 through 11 in boxes correctly. Assuming not too many people are brain dead at least 6% didn't care enough to vote.

If 50% of the people voted randomly each candidate should get 4.5% or so of the vote just from those random voters; but 7 candidates got significantly less than that. The first candidate on the ballot paper only got 0.42% of the vote so 50% also didn't just write 1-11 in order down the page.

The numbers indicate that unknown candidates get less than 0.5% of the vote each and known candidates get significantly more - making random oting unlikely (note, the Democrat candidate who got 0.8% or so and is in neither of my categories is a special case - the party has disintegrated in recent times and hasn't got media coverage but was very well known last time round).

So I would suspect that people watch the TV and see the various parties on the news and vote for the one who annoys them least or has the prettiest hair or has the policies they like the most. It's shallow interest and they wish the damn election would be over with so the politicians would get of the TV, but it's better than not caring at all. They don't care enough to investigate whether claims and accusations make sense, but I suspect most could at least say why they voted the way they did. "I followed the Liberal how-to-vote card because Labor wants to raise taxes" for example.

Random voting I just can't see in the numbers.

And if you vote for the Australian Democrats, but disagree with Family First be careful, because the Australian Democrats (and all the other parties except the Australian Greens) have preferenced Family First.

To be safe, vote below the line.

More information here: Election 2004 Candidates and Parties

In particular, look under the "Group Voting Ticket" section which contains information on where your preferences will go if you vote above the line.

I am not an American
It really amazes me (an Australian) how convoluted your election system is. I do not claim that our system is the best, but at least it is simple.
When I change addresses, I have to notify the Electoral Comission of my new address. Based on that, they tell me which electorate I can vote in for local, state and federal elections. All voting in Australia uses the same system. There are no varieties in the method.It is simple and proven. (Actually, they even sell their services to corporation that need to conduct internal voting, such as shareholder votes etc)
That is why there are extremely rare cases of voting irregularities here. From the outside, the American system is so confusing, irregular and disorganised that it actually is a pain just to keep track of what's going on. It is really amazing that in a federal election, voting is controlled on a county basis or even a state basis. But then again, like I said, I am not an American, so maybe, I'm missing something.

Some of us have an opinion that voting for something based on its popularity is damaging to the political system. We have the opinion that people should vote on the merits of the candidates or resolution being proposed.

Too bad our electoral system doesn't support real choice.

Participating in one's government in a free society should be a choice

Mandatory voting system.

Regardless of your opinion on whether or not it should be, participating is a legal requirement for Australian citizens over 18.

Except that the Electoral Act was changed after the Langer incident and Langer votes are now invalid. See: the AEC website. A Langer vote is now a completely wasted vote.

I posted this information in the earlier (less specific) story about the FTA's impact on Australian software development, but we really need to take action to let the media and politicians know that this is a big issue.

One of the best tactics is to send letters to newspapers. The FTA is a hot topic in the news right now, so there's a good chance that letters relating to it will be accepted. You can send letters to the editor at the following addresses:
The Australian
Sydney Morning Herald
The Age

You can also let your feeling be known to the shadow minister for the Arts, Sport and Information Technology (Senator Kate Lundy). Her contact details are here. Be sure to mention that this issue will affect your vote.

The Department of Communications, Information Technology and the Arts have so far brushed off any suggestion that Australia's software industry will be harmed by the FTA, and really do not seem to understand the issues. However, you can contact them here, and the Minister for Communications, Information Technology and the Arts here. Once again, be sure to mention that this will affect your vote.

You can also find out which electorate you are in, if you don't already know, and send your local federal MP a message about how disappointed you are over the FTA's impact on the IT industry.

Sorry to rain on the parade here, but EVACS wasn't used for a national election (federal elections and referenda are conducted by the Australian Electoral Commission). It was used in the 2001 ACT Legislative Assembly election, where about 220 000 voters selected 17 representatives. Of those votes, 16 559 votes were actually cast using the system - less than 10 percent.

I would be more impressed if it had been used in an election for a bicameral parliament like New South Wales. The above the line/below the line ballot paper used for the upper house (also used for the Senate and NSW local government elections) would be a greater challenge, given the large number of candidates (the "tablecloth" ballot paper of the 1999 NSW election is a classic example).

That's how I used to vote too, but then I learned that that preferences only come into play when none of the parties in contention are able to get >=51% of the vote. If you vote for the minor parties, and give only 2nd or lower preference to Labour, it's possible that Labour will lose simply because they didn't get enough of the first-preference votes. If the Liberal party (they're called Liberal, but really should be "wannabe-Republicans") get 51% of the vote, then it's all over, they win. More info at the Aust Electoral Commission site - http://www.aec.gov.au/_content/what/voting/votes_c ount.htm

I think that all Aussies with an interest in being able to use their computers unencumbered should really make their frustration over this deal known now. While it may be too late to stop the FTA, we still might be able to make a difference. Hopefully if we make enough noise the media and politicians will stop ignoring the IP aspects of the FTA.

So, start sending letters to newspapers. The FTA is a hot topic in the news right now, so there's a good chance it will be accepted (see letter second from the bottom).

You can send letters to the editor at the following addresses:
The Australian
Sydney Morning Herald
The Age

If US Slashdotters are keen, they could even send a "letter to the editor" detailing the problems with the DMCA and software patents that Australia will now face.

You can also let your feeling be known to the shadow minister for the Arts, Sport and Information Technology (Senator Kate Lundy). Her contact details are here. Be sure to mention that this issue will affect your vote.

You can also find out what electorate you are in, if you don't already know, and send your local federal MP a message about how disappointed you are over the FTA's impact on the IT industry.

While the timing of the posting of this story on Slashdot wasn't ideal (most Aussie Slashdotters won't be awake for another 5 or 6 hours), hopefully a reasonable number will read this in the morning and take action.

Here's the listing of Australian Members of Parliament:
http://www.aph.gov.au/house/members/mplist.htm

Write a snailmail letter (don't email) to your local member and protest this junk!

Flamebait candidate if I ever saw one.

As an Australian I wouldn't disagree that our history hasn't had it's fair share of disgrace, however I would argue that we are "...among the most vicious racists in the world."

Our track record on Aboriginal rights has been far from exemplary, but it isn't all bad news. In 1967, when a referendum was held to give Aboriginals the right to vote (a right they in fact already held in most states) the motion was carried with a "yes" vote of 90.77%, a remarkable number considering Australia's conservatism in constitutional change. (See Aborigines and the vote)

As in any healthy democracy, there is a vocal segment of the population who are seen as "racist" (One Nation Party, supporters of Mandatory Detention etc), but no more so than any other country.

I haven't seen "Rabbit Proof Fence", but have heard that it is an accurate portrayal of events and attitudes at the time. But then again, I wouldn't form an opinion of Germany by watching Schindlers List, or an opinion of America by watching Mississippi Burning.

Using non-open-source software for voting machines is just plain irresponsible. Hard to believe a continent entirely peopled by convicts [theregister.co.uk] is so far ahead of our blind and backward political culture.

Firstly, referring to Australia as a "continent entirely people by convicts" only shows your ignorance about the history of both Australia and America. Secondly, the electronic voting only took place in the ACT, not Australia, where voting is done via pencil and paper, not electronically for the following reasons:

There is no appropriate software technology for use in full preferential voting system.
Many voters, especially the elderly and those with poor literacy and numeracy skills may have difficulty with using the internet.
There is a risk of fraud and errors occurring in software without the safeguard of paper ballots to recount.
Start up costs would be significant
The AEC would need to continue to provide traditional voting facilities for those with no internet access

Go to the Source

Now I've found that I'm gonna keep it really busy. Hell, let's introduce the P.M. to the slashdot effect!

Maybe you could have an organisation whose sole purpose is to run elections. Kind of like the Australian Electoral Commission. I remember that even for University guild elections, these guys were brought to to ensure things were legit.

oh, you guys in the US already have your own way...better stick with that :)

The fact that when someone points out that political involvement in the electoral process is a bad thing, you immediately shoot back 'another system does not exist' (paraphrased obviously) shows the immensity of the corruption in your system. Have you not heard of the idea that the public service is not political? The government can fund a body without influencing it politically. Transparancy and appropriate checks and balances are required to maintain this independance. To see how it's done have a look here.

I can't believe the number of comments based around "this is going to happen, there's nothing we can do". Yes there is: CALL (don't fax, write or email) your MP (Member of Parliament). I just called mine and he wasn't aware of it, but was definately interested.

How do you get the number? First find out the name of your MP. Then put his/her name into the search engine here. Call the number displayed. Most likely you will get straight through - at least to a knowlegable side-kick.

Be brief, just let them know what's going on - send them a copy of the URL. Give them your name and address and ask for an update.

Hopefully we'll get some democracy going on this.

It doesnt take much time to send off an email to your local federal representative about this otherwise they'll only hear APRA's side of the story.

They may donate $$$, but everybody has to vote.

The Australian had a negative editorial on this proposal, so not all of the media lobby is behind it.

Obviously some privacy protections would be needed, but it is surely possible.
There is no privacy where the electoral roll is concerned Australian Electoral Roll FAQ

How can I purchase or view the electoral roll?
Whilst the Commonwealth Electoral Roll is not currently available on the Internet, it is a public document and is available free of charge for viewing at every AEC State Head Office and Divisional Office.
Hard copy (printed) rolls
Individual copies of the Electoral Roll can be purchased from the Divisional Returning Officer for the relevant Division. The State Head Offices can also supply State-wide sets or various rolls within a State. Rolls are currently priced at $27.10 each (including GST).

But haven't you bloody Americans learnt the KISS system - Keep It Simple Stupid.

This means no bloody machines, period !!! If Australia (& most of the OECD) can do hand counted paper ballots, then so can the US.

The only reason they use machine systems in the US is to cut costs, but the simple fact is they arn't as good - they invalidate more votes then hand counts do, they intimidate & confuse a good percentage of voters & they increase the odds of something fuking up (murphy's law)

Look at the mess, as well as the fucked up punch card machines you have counties with lever machines, other with optical machines, toggle switch machines, push button machines & also touch screen systems too. Then there are places like Oregon where all votes are of the mail in variety (which obviously discriminates against the homeless & disorginised). The simple fact is that huge numbers of people are intimidated with this complicated mess that's one of the reasons why most Americans don't vote & why the US has the lowest voter turnout in the OECD

Look at all the people that are intimidated by machines & even now still refuse to use Automatic Teller Machines, & there are plenty more people like that then just the illiterate, the elderly & immigrants that have poor 2nd language skills.

Its as if the bureaucracy in the US are on purposefully trying to discourage the masses from voting.

The only way to go is to Keep It Simple Stupid. Which means aiming at the lowest common denominator & designing a system that the stupidist simpleton can understand.

Which means 'X marks the spot' hand ballots.

That means a peice of paper with the candidates listed in a columne & another columne of boxes on the side with just one box next to each candidate.

Here are a couple of examples of 'KISS' paper ballots, the 1st one is an example of an Australian preferential ballot (any Americans who support 3rd parties should be demanding that the US system be made either preferential or proportional, otherwise no 3rd parties will ever make any long term headway), the 2nd ballot is an example of an ''X' marks the spot' ballot.

As far as counting goes the US should be doing what Australia does (& most of the rest of the developed world does similar) & hold the vote on a Saturday (I wonder how many blue collar workers in the US chose not to vote because of the incoveniance of voting on a Tuesday), using local schools as voting centres. Then leasing indoor stadiums & convention centres nationwide which are to be used as counting centres for the thousands of temp workers employed to count the votes. Each counter also has a Labour & conservative scrutineer looking over his/her shoulders.

It's extremely rare for results to not be known before the weekend is out (actually results mostly come out on the Saturday night, meaning people can go to election result parties & still be ok for work on Monday)

Sure its labour intensive, but as any UN election observer will tell you this is the best system if you want high turnouts with low rates of invalid votes & a result that's as accurate as can be, by Monday morning at the latest (actually in the vast majority of elections we know who's won by about 8pm the same night).

Now I bet someone will think 'oh but the US is much bigger than Australia', well my answer is no problem, the US having a nationwide hand paper ballot election would be no different than if Australia the UK, Germany the Netherlands & the Scandinavian countries all voted the same day, IE there's no reason to think it won't scale up fine.

Also all politicians must be removed from any decision making processes as far as the running of elections are concerned, etc.

Look at the way democratic afiliated local officials OKed the hand count iin Palm Beach & then the Republican Florida SoS blocked the hand count (& she was Bush's co-campaign manager, which makes it an even worse conflict of interest). That sort of thing is unheard of in Australia. Where an Independent Australian Electoral Commision administers federal elections & the various state electoral commisions administers state & local elections.

No politians are involved anywhere in the decision making process (except for calling the date of the election). As far as recounts, re-votes, referendums (in Australia politions can't amend the constitution, only the people can through referendums. Where a majority of the total votes & a majority in a majority of states, responds 'yes' to the amendment) & by-elections, etc are concerned only the electoral commision can make decisions regarding them. Although anyone can appeal to the commision's court, for a recount or re vote or something. Whether such appeals are successful is another matter.

But haven't you bloody Americans learnt the KISS system - Keep It Simple Stupid.

This means no bloody machines, period !!! If Australia (& most of the OECD) can do hand counted paper ballots, then so can the US.

The only reason they use machine systems in the US is to cut costs, but the simple fact is they arn't as good - they invalidate more votes then hand counts do, they intimidate & confuse a good percentage of voters & they increase the odds of something fuking up (murphy's law)

Look at the mess, as well as the fucked up punch card machines you have counties with lever machines, other with optical machines, toggle switch machines, push button machines & also touch screen systems too. Then there are places like Oregon where all votes are of the mail in variety (which obviously discriminates against the homeless & disorginised). The simple fact is that huge numbers of people are intimidated with this complicated mess that's one of the reasons why most Americans don't vote & why the US has the lowest voter turnout in the OECD

Look at all the people that are intimidated by machines & even now still refuse to use Automatic Teller Machines, & there are plenty more people like that then just the illiterate, the elderly & immigrants that have poor 2nd language skills.

Its as if the bureaucracy in the US are on purposefully trying to discourage the masses from voting.

The only way to go is to Keep It Simple Stupid. Which means aiming at the lowest common denominator & designing a system that the stupidist simpleton can understand.

Which means 'X marks the spot' hand ballots.

That means a peice of paper with the candidates listed in a columne & another columne of boxes on the side with just one box next to each candidate.

Here are a couple of examples of 'KISS' paper ballots, the 1st one is an example of an Australian preferential ballot (any Americans who support 3rd parties should be demanding that the US system be made either preferential or proportional, otherwise no 3rd parties will ever make any long term headway), the 2nd ballot is an example of an ''X' marks the spot' ballot.

As far as counting goes the US should be doing what Australia does (& most of the rest of the developed world does similar) & hold the vote on a Saturday (I wonder how many blue collar workers in the US chose not to vote because of the incoveniance of voting on a Tuesday), using local schools as voting centres. Then leasing indoor stadiums & convention centres nationwide which are to be used as counting centres for the thousands of temp workers employed to count the votes. Each counter also has a Labour & conservative scrutineer looking over his/her shoulders.

It's extremely rare for results to not be known before the weekend is out (actually results mostly come out on the Saturday night, meaning people can go to election result parties & still be ok for work on Monday)

Sure its labour intensive, but as any UN election observer will tell you this is the best system if you want high turnouts with low rates of invalid votes & a result that's as accurate as can be, by Monday morning at the latest (actually in the vast majority of elections we know who's won by about 8pm the same night).

Now I bet someone will think 'oh but the US is much bigger than Australia', well my answer is no problem, the US having a nationwide hand paper ballot election would be no different than if Australia the UK, Germany the Netherlands & the Scandinavian countries all voted the same day, IE there's no reason to think it won't scale up fine.

Also all politicians must be removed from any decision making processes as far as the running of elections are concerned, etc.

Look at the way democratic afiliated local officials OKed the hand count iin Palm Beach & then the Republican Florida SoS blocked the hand count (& she was Bush's co-campaign manager, which makes it an even worse conflict of interest). That sort of thing is unheard of in Australia. Where an Independent Australian Electoral Commision administers federal elections & the various state electoral commisions administers state & local elections.

No politians are involved anywhere in the decision making process (except for calling the date of the election). As far as recounts, re-votes, referendums (in Australia politions can't amend the constitution, only the people can through referendums. Where a majority of the total votes & a majority in a majority of states, responds 'yes' to the amendment) & by-elections, etc are concerned only the electoral commision can make decisions regarding them. Although anyone can appeal to the commision's court, for a recount or re vote or something. Whether such appeals are successful is another matter.

What is it with America's love of voting machines? They don't use them virtually anywhere else.

Haven't you bloody Americans learnt the KISS system - Keep It Simple Stupid.

This means no bloody machines, period !!! If Australia (& also virtually the rest of the democratic world) can do hand counted paper ballots, then so can the US.

The only reason they use machine systems in the US is to cut costs, but the simple fact is they arn't as good (they invalidate more votes then hand counts do, they intimidate & confuse a good percentage of voters & they increase the odds of something fuking up (murphy's law)

Look at the mess, as well as the fuked up punch card machines you have counties with lever machines, other with optical machines, toggle switch machines, push button machines & also touch screen systems too. Then there are places like Oregon where all votes are of the mail in variety (which obviously discriminates against the homeless & disorginised ). The simple fact is that huge numbers of people are intimidated with this complicated mess that's one of the reasons why most Americans don't vote & why the US has about the lowest voter turnout in the OECD.

Look at all the people that are intimidated by machines & even now still refuse to use Automatic Teller Machines, & there are plenty more people like that then just the illiterate, the elderly & immigrants that have poor 2nd language skills.

Its as if the bureaucracy in the US are on purposefully trying to discourage the masses from voting.

The only way to go is to Keep It Simple Stupid. Which means aiming at the lowest common denominator & designing a system that the stupidist simpleton can understand.

Which means 'X marks the spot' hand ballots.

That means a peice of paper with the candidates listed in a columne & another columne of boxes on the side with just one box next to each candidate.

Here are a couple of examples of 'KISS' paper ballots, the 1st one is an example of an Australian preferential ballot (any Americans who support 3rd parties should be demanding that the US system be made either preferential or proportional, otherwise no 3rd parties will ever make any long term headway), the 2nd ballot is an example of an ''X' marks the spot' ballot.

As far as counting goes the US should be doing what Australia does (& most of the rest of the developed world does similar) & hold the vote on a Saturday (I wonder how many blue collar workers in the US chose not to vote because of the incoveniance of voting on a Tuesday), using local schools as voting centres. Then leasing indoor stadiums & convention centres nationwide which are to be used as counting centres for the thousands of temp workers employed to count the votes. Each counter also has a Labour & conservative scrutineer looking over his/her shoulders.

Sure its labour intensive, but as any UN election observer will tell you this is the best system if you want high turnouts with low rates of invalid votes & a result that's as accurate as can be, by Monday morning at the latest (actually in the vast majority of elections we know who's won by about 8pm the same night).

Also all politicians must be removed from any decision making processes as far as the running of elections are concerned, etc.

Look at the way democratic afiliated local officials OKed the hand count iin Palm Beach & then the Republican Florida SoS blocked the hand count (& she was Bush's co-campaign manager, which makes it an even worse conflict of interest). That sort of thing is unheard of in Australia. Where an Independent Australian Electoral Commision administers federal elections & the various state electoral commisions administers state & local elections.

No politians are involved anywhere in the decision making process (except for calling the date of the election). As far as recounts, re-votes, referendums (in Australia politions can't amend the constitution, only the people can through referendums. Where a majority of the total votes & a majority in a majority of states, responds 'yes' to the amendment) & by-elections, etc are concerned only the electoral commision can make decisions regarding them. Although anyone can appeal to the commission's court, for a recount or re vote or something. Whether such appeals are successful is another matter.

What is it with America's love of voting machines? They don't use them virtually anywhere else.

Haven't you bloody Americans learnt the KISS system - Keep It Simple Stupid.

This means no bloody machines, period !!! If Australia (& also virtually the rest of the democratic world) can do hand counted paper ballots, then so can the US.

The only reason they use machine systems in the US is to cut costs, but the simple fact is they arn't as good (they invalidate more votes then hand counts do, they intimidate & confuse a good percentage of voters & they increase the odds of something fuking up (murphy's law)

Look at the mess, as well as the fuked up punch card machines you have counties with lever machines, other with optical machines, toggle switch machines, push button machines & also touch screen systems too. Then there are places like Oregon where all votes are of the mail in variety (which obviously discriminates against the homeless & disorginised ). The simple fact is that huge numbers of people are intimidated with this complicated mess that's one of the reasons why most Americans don't vote & why the US has about the lowest voter turnout in the OECD.

Look at all the people that are intimidated by machines & even now still refuse to use Automatic Teller Machines, & there are plenty more people like that then just the illiterate, the elderly & immigrants that have poor 2nd language skills.

Its as if the bureaucracy in the US are on purposefully trying to discourage the masses from voting.

The only way to go is to Keep It Simple Stupid. Which means aiming at the lowest common denominator & designing a system that the stupidist simpleton can understand.

Which means 'X marks the spot' hand ballots.

That means a peice of paper with the candidates listed in a columne & another columne of boxes on the side with just one box next to each candidate.

Here are a couple of examples of 'KISS' paper ballots, the 1st one is an example of an Australian preferential ballot (any Americans who support 3rd parties should be demanding that the US system be made either preferential or proportional, otherwise no 3rd parties will ever make any long term headway), the 2nd ballot is an example of an ''X' marks the spot' ballot.

As far as counting goes the US should be doing what Australia does (& most of the rest of the developed world does similar) & hold the vote on a Saturday (I wonder how many blue collar workers in the US chose not to vote because of the incoveniance of voting on a Tuesday), using local schools as voting centres. Then leasing indoor stadiums & convention centres nationwide which are to be used as counting centres for the thousands of temp workers employed to count the votes. Each counter also has a Labour & conservative scrutineer looking over his/her shoulders.

Sure its labour intensive, but as any UN election observer will tell you this is the best system if you want high turnouts with low rates of invalid votes & a result that's as accurate as can be, by Monday morning at the latest (actually in the vast majority of elections we know who's won by about 8pm the same night).

Also all politicians must be removed from any decision making processes as far as the running of elections are concerned, etc.

Look at the way democratic afiliated local officials OKed the hand count iin Palm Beach & then the Republican Florida SoS blocked the hand count (& she was Bush's co-campaign manager, which makes it an even worse conflict of interest). That sort of thing is unheard of in Australia. Where an Independent Australian Electoral Commision administers federal elections & the various state electoral commisions administers state & local elections.

No politians are involved anywhere in the decision making process (except for calling the date of the election). As far as recounts, re-votes, referendums (in Australia politions can't amend the constitution, only the people can through referendums. Where a majority of the total votes & a majority in a majority of states, responds 'yes' to the amendment) & by-elections, etc are concerned only the electoral commision can make decisions regarding them. Although anyone can appeal to the commission's court, for a recount or re vote or something. Whether such appeals are successful is another matter.

Machine voting systems just fuck things up. What is it with America's love of voting machines? They don't use them virtually anywhere else. It's precisely because Americans useing voting machines that their voting system is such a mess. There are reasons why virtually rest of the world uses simple hand ballots - they work & they work perfectly

Haven't you bloody Americans learnt the KISS system - Keep It Simple Stupid.

This means no bloody machines, period !!! If Australia (& also virtually the rest of the democratic world) can do hand counted paper ballots, then so can the US.

The only reason they use machine systems in the US is to cut costs, but the simple fact is they arn't as good (they invalidate more votes then hand counts do, they intimidate & confuse a good percentage of voters & they increase the odds of something fuking up (murphy's law)

Look at the mess, as well as the fuked up punch card machines you have counties with lever machines, other with optical machines, toggle switch machines, push button machines & also touch screen systems too. Then there are places like Oregon where all votes are of the mail in variety (which obviously discriminates against the homeless & disorginised ). The simple fact is that huge numbers of people are intimidated with this complicated mess that's one of the reasons why most Americans don't vote & why the US has about the lowest voter turnout in the OECD.

Look at all the people that are intimidated by machines & even now still refuse to use Automatic Teller Machines, & there are plenty more people like that then just the illiterate, the elderly & immigrants that have poor 2nd language skills.

Its as if the bureaucracy in the US are on purposefully trying to discourage the masses from voting.

The only way to go is to Keep It Simple Stupid. Which means aiming at the lowest common denominator & designing a system that the stupidist simpleton can understand.

Which means 'X marks the spot' hand ballots.

That means a peice of paper with the candidates listed in a columne & another columne of boxes on the side with just one box next to each candidate.

Here are a couple of examples of 'KISS' paper ballots, the 1st one is an example of an Australian preferential ballot (any Americans who support 3rd parties should be demanding that the US system be made either preferential or proportional, otherwise no 3rd parties will ever make any long term headway), the 2nd ballot is an example of an ''X' marks the spot' ballot.

As far as counting goes the US should be doing what Australia does (& most of the rest of the developed world does similar) & hold the vote on a Saturday (I wonder how many blue collar workers in the US chose not to vote because of the incoveniance of voting on a Tuesday), using local schools as voting centres. Then leasing indoor stadiums & convention centres nationwide which are to be used as counting centres for the thousands of temp workers employed to count the votes. Each counter also has a Labour & conservative scrutineer looking over his/her shoulders.

Sure its labour intensive, but as any UN election observer will tell you this is the best system if you want high turnouts with low rates of invalid votes & a result that's as accurate as can be, by Monday morning at the latest (actually in the vast majority of elections we know who's won by about 8pm the same night).

Also all politicians must be removed from any decision making processes as far as the running of elections are concerned, etc.

Look at the way democratic afiliated local officials OKed the hand count iin Palm Beach & then the Republican Florida SoS blocked the hand count (& she was Bush's co-campaign manager, which makes it an even worse conflict of interest). That sort of thing is unheard of in Australia. Where an Independent Australian Electoral Commision administers federal elections & the various state electoral commisions administers state & local elections.

No politians are involved anywhere in the decision making process (except for calling the date of the election). As far as recounts, re-votes, referendums (in Australia politions can't amend the constitution, only the people can through referendums. Where a majority of the total votes & a majority in a majority of states, responds 'yes' to the amendment) & by-elections, etc are concerned only the electoral commision can make decisions regarding them. Although anyone can appeal to the commision's court, for a recount or re vote or something. Whether such appeals are successful is another matter.

Machine voting systems just fuck things up. What is it with America's love of voting machines? They don't use them virtually anywhere else. It's precisely because Americans useing voting machines that their voting system is such a mess. There are reasons why virtually rest of the world uses simple hand ballots - they work & they work perfectly

Haven't you bloody Americans learnt the KISS system - Keep It Simple Stupid.

This means no bloody machines, period !!! If Australia (& also virtually the rest of the democratic world) can do hand counted paper ballots, then so can the US.

The only reason they use machine systems in the US is to cut costs, but the simple fact is they arn't as good (they invalidate more votes then hand counts do, they intimidate & confuse a good percentage of voters & they increase the odds of something fuking up (murphy's law)

Look at the mess, as well as the fuked up punch card machines you have counties with lever machines, other with optical machines, toggle switch machines, push button machines & also touch screen systems too. Then there are places like Oregon where all votes are of the mail in variety (which obviously discriminates against the homeless & disorginised ). The simple fact is that huge numbers of people are intimidated with this complicated mess that's one of the reasons why most Americans don't vote & why the US has about the lowest voter turnout in the OECD.

Look at all the people that are intimidated by machines & even now still refuse to use Automatic Teller Machines, & there are plenty more people like that then just the illiterate, the elderly & immigrants that have poor 2nd language skills.

Its as if the bureaucracy in the US are on purposefully trying to discourage the masses from voting.

The only way to go is to Keep It Simple Stupid. Which means aiming at the lowest common denominator & designing a system that the stupidist simpleton can understand.

Which means 'X marks the spot' hand ballots.

That means a peice of paper with the candidates listed in a columne & another columne of boxes on the side with just one box next to each candidate.

Here are a couple of examples of 'KISS' paper ballots, the 1st one is an example of an Australian preferential ballot (any Americans who support 3rd parties should be demanding that the US system be made either preferential or proportional, otherwise no 3rd parties will ever make any long term headway), the 2nd ballot is an example of an ''X' marks the spot' ballot.

As far as counting goes the US should be doing what Australia does (& most of the rest of the developed world does similar) & hold the vote on a Saturday (I wonder how many blue collar workers in the US chose not to vote because of the incoveniance of voting on a Tuesday), using local schools as voting centres. Then leasing indoor stadiums & convention centres nationwide which are to be used as counting centres for the thousands of temp workers employed to count the votes. Each counter also has a Labour & conservative scrutineer looking over his/her shoulders.

Sure its labour intensive, but as any UN election observer will tell you this is the best system if you want high turnouts with low rates of invalid votes & a result that's as accurate as can be, by Monday morning at the latest (actually in the vast majority of elections we know who's won by about 8pm the same night).

Also all politicians must be removed from any decision making processes as far as the running of elections are concerned, etc.

Look at the way democratic afiliated local officials OKed the hand count iin Palm Beach & then the Republican Florida SoS blocked the hand count (& she was Bush's co-campaign manager, which makes it an even worse conflict of interest). That sort of thing is unheard of in Australia. Where an Independent Australian Electoral Commision administers federal elections & the various state electoral commisions administers state & local elections.

No politians are involved anywhere in the decision making process (except for calling the date of the election). As far as recounts, re-votes, referendums (in Australia politions can't amend the constitution, only the people can through referendums. Where a majority of the total votes & a majority in a majority of states, responds 'yes' to the amendment) & by-elections, etc are concerned only the electoral commision can make decisions regarding them. Although anyone can appeal to the commision's court, for a recount or re vote or something. Whether such appeals are successful is another matter.

What is it with America's love of voting machines? They don't use them virtually anywhere else.

Haven't you bloody Americans learnt the KISS system - Keep It Simple Stupid.

This means no bloody machines, period !!! If Australia (& also virtually the rest of the democratic world) can do hand counted paper ballots, then so can the US.

The only reason they use machine systems in the US is to cut costs, but the simple fact is they arn't as good (they invalidate more votes then hand counts do, they intimidate & confuse a good percentage of voters & they increase the odds of something fuking up (murphy's law)

Look at the bloody mess, as well as the fuked up punch card machines you have counties with lever machines, other with optical machines, toggle switch machines, push button machines & also touch screen systems too. Then there are places like Oregon where all votes are of the mail in variety (which obviously discriminates against the homeless & disorginised ). The simple fact is that huge numbers of people are intimidated with this complicated mess that's one of the reasons why most Americans don't vote & why the US has about the lowest voter turnout in the OECD.

Look at all the people that are intimidated by machines & even now still refuse to use Automatic Teller Machines, & there are plenty more people like that then just the illiterate, the elderly & immigrants that have poor 2nd language skills.

Its as if the bureaucracy in the US are on purposefully trying to discourage the masses from voting.

The only way to go is to Keep It Simple Stupid. Which means aiming at the lowest common denominator & designing a system that the stupidist simpleton can understand.

Which means 'X marks the spot' hand ballots.

That means a peice of paper with the candidates listed in a columne & another columne of boxes on the side with just one box next to each candidate.

Here are a couple of examples of 'KISS' paper ballots, the 1st one is an example of an Australian preferential ballot (any Americans who support 3rd parties should be demanding that the US system be made either preferential or proportional, otherwise no 3rd parties will ever make any long term headway), the 2nd ballot is an example of an ''X' marks the spot' ballot.

As far as counting goes the US should be doing what Australia does (& most of the rest of the developed world does similar) & hold the vote on a Saturday (I wonder how many blue collar workers in the US chose not to vote because of the incoveniance of voting on a Tuesday), using local schools as voting centres. Then leasing indoor stadiums & convention centres nationwide which are to be used as counting centres for the thousands of temp workers employed to count the votes. Each counter also has a Labour & conservative scrutineer looking over his/her shoulders.

Sure its labour intensive, but as any UN election observer will tell you this is the best system if you want high turnouts with low rates of invalid votes & a result that's as accurate as can be, by Monday morning at the latest (actually in the vast majority of elections we know who's won by about 8pm the same night).

Also all politicians must be removed from any decision making processes as far as the running of elections are concerned, etc.

Look at the way democratic afiliated local officials OKed the hand count iin Palm Beach & then the Republican Florida SoS blocked the hand count (& she was Bush's co-campaign manager, which makes it an even worse conflict of interest). That sort of thing is unheard of in Australia. Where an Independent Australian Electoral Commision administers federal elections & the various state electoral commisions administers state & local elections.

No politians are involved anywhere in the decision making process (except for calling the date of the election). As far as recounts, re-votes, referendums (in Australia politions can't amend the constitution, only the people can through referendums. Where a majority of the total votes & a majority in a majority of states, responds 'yes' to the amendment) & by-elections, etc are concerned only the electoral commision can make decisions regarding them. Although anyone can appeal to the commision's court, for a recount or re vote or something. Whether such appeals are successful is another matter.

What is it with America's love of voting machines? They don't use them virtually anywhere else.

Haven't you bloody Americans learnt the KISS system - Keep It Simple Stupid.

This means no bloody machines, period !!! If Australia (& also virtually the rest of the democratic world) can do hand counted paper ballots, then so can the US.

The only reason they use machine systems in the US is to cut costs, but the simple fact is they arn't as good (they invalidate more votes then hand counts do, they intimidate & confuse a good percentage of voters & they increase the odds of something fuking up (murphy's law)

Look at the bloody mess, as well as the fuked up punch card machines you have counties with lever machines, other with optical machines, toggle switch machines, push button machines & also touch screen systems too. Then there are places like Oregon where all votes are of the mail in variety (which obviously discriminates against the homeless & disorginised ). The simple fact is that huge numbers of people are intimidated with this complicated mess that's one of the reasons why most Americans don't vote & why the US has about the lowest voter turnout in the OECD.

Look at all the people that are intimidated by machines & even now still refuse to use Automatic Teller Machines, & there are plenty more people like that then just the illiterate, the elderly & immigrants that have poor 2nd language skills.

Its as if the bureaucracy in the US are on purposefully trying to discourage the masses from voting.

The only way to go is to Keep It Simple Stupid. Which means aiming at the lowest common denominator & designing a system that the stupidist simpleton can understand.

Which means 'X marks the spot' hand ballots.

That means a peice of paper with the candidates listed in a columne & another columne of boxes on the side with just one box next to each candidate.

Here are a couple of examples of 'KISS' paper ballots, the 1st one is an example of an Australian preferential ballot (any Americans who support 3rd parties should be demanding that the US system be made either preferential or proportional, otherwise no 3rd parties will ever make any long term headway), the 2nd ballot is an example of an ''X' marks the spot' ballot.

As far as counting goes the US should be doing what Australia does (& most of the rest of the developed world does similar) & hold the vote on a Saturday (I wonder how many blue collar workers in the US chose not to vote because of the incoveniance of voting on a Tuesday), using local schools as voting centres. Then leasing indoor stadiums & convention centres nationwide which are to be used as counting centres for the thousands of temp workers employed to count the votes. Each counter also has a Labour & conservative scrutineer looking over his/her shoulders.

Sure its labour intensive, but as any UN election observer will tell you this is the best system if you want high turnouts with low rates of invalid votes & a result that's as accurate as can be, by Monday morning at the latest (actually in the vast majority of elections we know who's won by about 8pm the same night).

Also all politicians must be removed from any decision making processes as far as the running of elections are concerned, etc.

Look at the way democratic afiliated local officials OKed the hand count iin Palm Beach & then the Republican Florida SoS blocked the hand count (& she was Bush's co-campaign manager, which makes it an even worse conflict of interest). That sort of thing is unheard of in Australia. Where an Independent Australian Electoral Commision administers federal elections & the various state electoral commisions administers state & local elections.

No politians are involved anywhere in the decision making process (except for calling the date of the election). As far as recounts, re-votes, referendums (in Australia politions can't amend the constitution, only the people can through referendums. Where a majority of the total votes & a majority in a majority of states, responds 'yes' to the amendment) & by-elections, etc are concerned only the electoral commision can make decisions regarding them. Although anyone can appeal to the commision's court, for a recount or re vote or something. Whether such appeals are successful is another matter.

What is it with America's love of voting machines? They don't use them virtually anywhere else.

Haven't you bloody Americans learnt the KISS system - Keep It Simple Stupid.

This means no bloody machines, period !!! If Australia (& also virtually the rest of the democratic world) can do hand counted paper ballots, then so can the US.

The only reason they use machine systems in the US is to cut costs, but the simple fact is they arn't as good (they invalidate more votes then hand counts do, they intimidate & confuse a good percentage of voters & they increase the odds of something fuking up (murphy's law)

Look at the mess, as well as the fuked up punch card machines you have counties with lever machines, other with optical machines, toggle switch machines, push button machines & also touch screen systems too. Then there are places like Oregon where all votes are of the mail in variety (which obviously discriminates against the homeless & disorginised ). The simple fact is that huge numbers of people are intimidated with this complicated mess that's one of the reasons why most Americans don't vote & why the US has about the lowest voter turnout in the OECD.

Look at all the people that are intimidated by machines & even now still refuse to use Automatic Teller Machines, & there are plenty more people like that then just the illiterate, the elderly & immigrants that have poor 2nd language skills.

Its as if the bureaucracy in the US are on purposefully trying to discourage the masses from voting.

The only way to go is to Keep It Simple Stupid. Which means aiming at the lowest common denominator & designing a system that the stupidist simpleton can understand.

Which means 'X marks the spot' hand ballots.

That means a peice of paper with the candidates listed in a columne & another columne of boxes on the side with just one box next to each candidate.

Here are a couple of examples of 'KISS' paper ballots, the 1st one is an example of an Australian preferential ballot (any Americans who support 3rd parties should be demanding that the US system be made either preferential or proportional, otherwise no 3rd parties will ever make any long term headway), the 2nd ballot is an example of an ''X' marks the spot' ballot.

As far as counting goes the US should be doing what Australia does (& most of the rest of the developed world does similar) & hold the vote on a Saturday (I wonder how many blue collar workers in the US chose not to vote because of the incoveniance of voting on a Tuesday), using local schools as voting centres. Then leasing indoor stadiums & convention centres nationwide which are to be used as counting centres for the thousands of temp workers employed to count the votes. Each counter also has a Labour & conservative scrutineer looking over his/her shoulders.

Sure its labour intensive, but as any UN election observer will tell you this is the best system if you want high turnouts with low rates of invalid votes & a result that's as accurate as can be, by Monday morning at the latest (actually in the vast majority of elections we know who's won by about 8pm the same night).

Also all politicians must be removed from any decision making processes as far as the running of elections are concerned, etc.

Look at the way democratic afiliated local officials OKed the hand count iin Palm Beach & then the Republican Florida SoS blocked the hand count (& she was Bush's co-campaign manager, which makes it an even worse conflict of interest). That sort of thing is unheard of in Australia. Where an Independent Australian Electoral Commision administers federal elections & the various state electoral commisions administers state & local elections.

No politians are involved anywhere in the decision making process (except for calling the date of the election). As far as recounts, re-votes, referendums (in Australia politions can't amend the constitution, only the people can through referendums. Where a majority of the total votes & a majority in a majority of states, responds 'yes' to the amendment) & by-elections, etc are concerned only the electoral commision can make decisions regarding them. Although anyone can appeal to the commision's court, for a recount or re vote or something. Whether such appeals are successful is another matter.

What is it with America's love of voting machines? They don't use them virtually anywhere else.

Haven't you bloody Americans learnt the KISS system - Keep It Simple Stupid.

This means no bloody machines, period !!! If Australia (& also virtually the rest of the democratic world) can do hand counted paper ballots, then so can the US.

The only reason they use machine systems in the US is to cut costs, but the simple fact is they arn't as good (they invalidate more votes then hand counts do, they intimidate & confuse a good percentage of voters & they increase the odds of something fuking up (murphy's law)

Look at the mess, as well as the fuked up punch card machines you have counties with lever machines, other with optical machines, toggle switch machines, push button machines & also touch screen systems too. Then there are places like Oregon where all votes are of the mail in variety (which obviously discriminates against the homeless & disorginised ). The simple fact is that huge numbers of people are intimidated with this complicated mess that's one of the reasons why most Americans don't vote & why the US has about the lowest voter turnout in the OECD.

Look at all the people that are intimidated by machines & even now still refuse to use Automatic Teller Machines, & there are plenty more people like that then just the illiterate, the elderly & immigrants that have poor 2nd language skills.

Its as if the bureaucracy in the US are on purposefully trying to discourage the masses from voting.

The only way to go is to Keep It Simple Stupid. Which means aiming at the lowest common denominator & designing a system that the stupidist simpleton can understand.

Which means 'X marks the spot' hand ballots.

That means a peice of paper with the candidates listed in a columne & another columne of boxes on the side with just one box next to each candidate.

Here are a couple of examples of 'KISS' paper ballots, the 1st one is an example of an Australian preferential ballot (any Americans who support 3rd parties should be demanding that the US system be made either preferential or proportional, otherwise no 3rd parties will ever make any long term headway), the 2nd ballot is an example of an ''X' marks the spot' ballot.

As far as counting goes the US should be doing what Australia does (& most of the rest of the developed world does similar) & hold the vote on a Saturday (I wonder how many blue collar workers in the US chose not to vote because of the incoveniance of voting on a Tuesday), using local schools as voting centres. Then leasing indoor stadiums & convention centres nationwide which are to be used as counting centres for the thousands of temp workers employed to count the votes. Each counter also has a Labour & conservative scrutineer looking over his/her shoulders.

Sure its labour intensive, but as any UN election observer will tell you this is the best system if you want high turnouts with low rates of invalid votes & a result that's as accurate as can be, by Monday morning at the latest (actually in the vast majority of elections we know who's won by about 8pm the same night).

Also all politicians must be removed from any decision making processes as far as the running of elections are concerned, etc.

Look at the way democratic afiliated local officials OKed the hand count iin Palm Beach & then the Republican Florida SoS blocked the hand count (& she was Bush's co-campaign manager, which makes it an even worse conflict of interest). That sort of thing is unheard of in Australia. Where an Independent Australian Electoral Commision administers federal elections & the various state electoral commisions administers state & local elections.

No politians are involved anywhere in the decision making process (except for calling the date of the election). As far as recounts, re-votes, referendums (in Australia politions can't amend the constitution, only the people can through referendums. Where a majority of the total votes & a majority in a majority of states, responds 'yes' to the amendment) & by-elections, etc are concerned only the electoral commision can make decisions regarding them. Although anyone can appeal to the commision's court, for a recount or re vote or something. Whether such appeals are successful is another matter.

What is it with America's love of voting machines? They don't use them virtually anywhere else.

Haven't you bloody Americans learnt the KISS system - Keep It Simple Stupid.

This means no bloody machines, period !!! If Australia (& also virtually the rest of the democratic world) can do hand counted paper ballots, then so can the US.

The only reason they use machine systems in the US is to cut costs, but the simple fact is they arn't as good (they invalidate more votes then hand counts do, they intimidate & confuse a good percentage of voters & they increase the odds of something fuking up (murphy's law)

Look at the mess, as well as the fuked up punch card machines you have counties with lever machines, other with optical machines, toggle switch machines, push button machines & also touch screen systems too. Then there are places like Oregon where all votes are of the mail in variety (which obviously discriminates against the homeless & disorginised ). The simple fact is that huge numbers of people are intimidated with this complicated mess that's one of the reasons why most Americans don't vote & why the US has about the lowest voter turnout in the OECD.

Look at all the people that are intimidated by machines & even now still refuse to use Automatic Teller Machines, & there are plenty more people like that then just the illiterate, the elderly & immigrants that have poor 2nd language skills.

Its as if the bureaucracy in the US are on purposefully trying to discourage the masses from voting.

The only way to go is to Keep It Simple Stupid. Which means aiming at the lowest common denominator & designing a system that the stupidist simpleton can understand.

Which means 'X marks the spot' hand ballots.

That means a peice of paper with the candidates listed in a columne & another columne of boxes on the side with just one box next to each candidate.

Here are a couple of examples of 'KISS' paper ballots, the 1st one is an example of an Australian preferential ballot (any Americans who support 3rd parties should be demanding that the US system be made either preferential or proportional, otherwise no 3rd parties will ever make any long term headway), the 2nd ballot is an example of an ''X' marks the spot' ballot.

As far as counting goes the US should be doing what Australia does (& most of the rest of the developed world does similar) & hold the vote on a Saturday (I wonder how many blue collar workers in the US chose not to vote because of the incoveniance of voting on a Tuesday), using local schools as voting centres. Then leasing indoor stadiums & convention centres nationwide which are to be used as counting centres for the thousands of temp workers employed to count the votes. Each counter also has a Labour & conservative scrutineer looking over his/her shoulders.

Sure its labour intensive, but as any UN election observer will tell you this is the best system if you want high turnouts with low rates of invalid votes & a result that's as accurate as can be, by Monday morning at the latest (actually in the vast majority of elections we know who's won by about 8pm the same night).

Also all politicians must be removed from any decision making processes as far as the running of elections are concerned, etc.

Look at the way democratic afiliated local officials OKed the hand count iin Palm Beach & then the Republican Florida SoS blocked the hand count (& she was Bush's co-campaign manager, which makes it an even worse conflict of interest). That sort of thing is unheard of in Australia. Where an Independent Australian Electoral Commision administers federal elections & the various state electoral commisions administers state & local elections.

No politians are involved anywhere in the decision making process (except for calling the date of the election). As far as recounts, re-votes, referendums (in Australia politions can't amend the constitution, only the people can through referendums. Where a majority of the total votes & a majority in a majority of states, responds 'yes' to the amendment) & by-elections, etc are concerned only the electoral commision can make decisions regarding them. Although anyone can appeal to the commision's court, for a recount or re vote or something. Whether such appeals are successful is another matter.

What is it with America's love of voting machines? They don't use them virtually anywhere else.

Haven't you bloody Americans learnt the KISS system - Keep It Simple Stupid.

This means no bloody machines, period !!! If Australia (& also virtually the rest of the democratic world) can do hand counted paper ballots, then so can the US.

The only reason they use machine systems in the US is to cut costs, but the simple fact is they arn't as good (they invalidate more votes then hand counts do, they intimidate & confuse a good percentage of voters & they increase the odds of something fuking up (murphy's law)

Look at the mess, as well as the fuked up punch card machines you have counties with lever machines, other with optical machines, toggle switch machines, push button machines & also touch screen systems too. Then there are places like Oregon where all votes are of the mail in variety (which obviously discriminates against the homeless & disorginised ). The simple fact is that huge numbers of people are intimidated with this complicated mess that's one of the reasons why most Americans don't vote & why the US has about the lowest voter turnout in the OECD.

Look at all the people that are intimidated by machines & even now still refuse to use Automatic Teller Machines, & there are plenty more people like that then just the illiterate, the elderly & immigrants that have poor 2nd language skills.

Its as if the bureaucracy in the US are on purposefully trying to discourage the masses from voting.

The only way to go is to Keep It Simple Stupid. Which means aiming at the lowest common denominator & designing a system that the stupidist simpleton can understand.

Which means 'X marks the spot' hand ballots.

That means a peice of paper with the candidates listed in a columne & another columne of boxes on the side with just one box next to each candidate.

Here are a couple of examples of 'KISS' paper ballots, the 1st one is an example of an Australian preferential ballot (any Americans who support 3rd parties should be demanding that the US system be made either preferential or proportional, otherwise no 3rd parties will ever make any long term headway), the 2nd ballot is an example of an ''X' marks the spot' ballot.

As far as counting goes the US should be doing what Australia does (& most of the rest of the developed world does similar) & hold the vote on a Saturday (I wonder how many blue collar workers in the US chose not to vote because of the incoveniance of voting on a Tuesday), using local schools as voting centres. Then leasing indoor stadiums & convention centres nationwide which are to be used as counting centres for the thousands of temp workers employed to count the votes. Each counter also has a Labour & conservative scrutineer looking over his/her shoulders.

Sure its labour intensive, but as any UN election observer will tell you this is the best system if you want high turnouts with low rates of invalid votes & a result that's as accurate as can be, by Monday morning at the latest (actually in the vast majority of elections we know who's won by about 8pm the same night).

Also all politicians must be removed from any decision making processes as far as the running of elections are concerned, etc.

Look at the way democratic afiliated local officials OKed the hand count iin Palm Beach & then the Republican Florida SoS blocked the hand count (& she was Bush's co-campaign manager, which makes it an even worse conflict of interest). That sort of thing is unheard of in Australia. Where an Independent Australian Electoral Commision administers federal elections & the various state electoral commisions administers state & local elections.

No politians are involved anywhere in the decision making process (except for calling the date of the election). As far as recounts, re-votes, referendums (in Australia politions can't amend the constitution, only the people can through referendums. Where a majority of the total votes & a majority in a majority of states, responds 'yes' to the amendment) & by-elections, etc are concerned only the electoral commision can make decisions regarding them. Although anyone can appeal to the commision's court, for a recount or re vote or something. Whether such appeals are successful is another matter.

The problem of low turnout really hit in the 1920s when turnout plummeted way below 50% and the mandate of parliament began to lack credibility. The solution - compulsorary voting. Here all adult citizens must attend a polling place on polling day. This approach stems from seeing voting as a responsibility as well as a right. Australia is a democracy and as such its citizens have the responsibility of running the country through their representatives. One has no more right to not show up on polling day than to decide not to pay tax. Of course one can still abstain by voting informally but very few do. Because everyone votes, politicans need to appeal to everyone by taking everyone's position into account.

The issue of third parties is solved by preferential voting and/or proportional representation. These voting mechanisms ensure that the membership of parliament better reflects the propotions of voters - so losing votes to a small party is important. Even where there are single member electorates, one can make a statement by voting for a minor candidate whom one really supports and preference the lesser of the remaining evils so that one's vote will count for them after the minor candidate has been eliminated.

Further information is available at the Australian Electoral Commission's web site.