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Australia to Get Software Patents and Anti-Circumvention Laws
Marlor writes "Australia's main opposition party have just confirmed that they will be supporting the Free Trade Agreement with the USA. This means that Australia will be adopting DMCA-style laws and Software Patents in the name of 'harmonizing IP laws with the USA', despite consistent lobbying against them. Matters are made worse by the fact that, unlike Americans, Australians are not protected by 'fair use' provisions." Odd that 'harmonizing' is always in one direction - for some reason, no one ever wants to decrease IP regulation to harmonize with some other country.
If the conservatives are voted out, the provisions can be watered down or ignored in new 'enabling' legislation, much as the US will ignore their side of the bargain.
"There are four boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order." Ed Howdershelt
Anyone know of a large island that is well connected to the Internet?
Harmonization is always in the direction of the power. It doesn't have a thing to do with what's good for innovation anymore.
Great Britain?
Cheers,
Ian
For plaguing us with not one, or two, but *three* Crocodile Dundee movies!
Bill Clinton: Pimp we can believe in. - The Shirt!!!
Grandparent should have added: 'whose prime minister isn't kissing Bush's ass'.
Secure messaging: http://quickmsg.vreeken.net/
Because restrictive IP laws create concentration of wealth, which is power. Power leads to the ability to coerce others. And nobody grows powerful by using their existing wealth to create an envirinment that is free-er.
Looks good for your age..
"no one ever wants to decrease IP regulation to harmonize with some other country"
Keep talking about "IP".. and that will NEVER change.
The crux is this: we all bought in this phantom "Information Economy" in the 90's, completely bypassing the fact that the real money is made with SERVICES, not INFORMATION.
This whole "IT revolution" meme needs to be shot. And before that happens, stuff is likely to get far worse first.
"/Dread"
I'm sure you see the importance of stopping people that run Linux from playing DVDs. Go FTA!
It's not odd at all. The Australian government wants more trade from the US, whitch will only occur if the Australian government increases IP regulation. If the Australian people want less IP regulation (I.e. fair use clauses), its up to them to lobby their government. Things don't usually happen in government because its the right thing to do, things happen because of interests. In this case, businesses (both US and Australian) have a compelling interest towards more trade, so until there is a compelling interest towards fair use the Australian government will probbley not get around to it.
Matters are made worse by the fact that, unlike Americans, Australians are not protected by 'fair use' provisions.
What? Americans are protected by fair use provisions? I mean, I know we have them, but I didn't realize they still did anything.
This won't last long-- Jews and Muslims are going to be really mad about that!
However, there'll be no chicks there, so the GNU-ites would die out within a generation and the DMCA gang would still win.
I'd like to see a block of maybe africa and the middle east just say screw it and form their own economic associations independent of the United States. They wouldn't have great GDP's but at least they'd be creating their own economies suited to their specific needs and not letting the vacuum machine that is the US suck up all their money.
Developing countries are not a market for our TV production and their home textile industries can't get off the ground because the West floods developing markets with cheap bolts of cloth or discarded clothing. Our economic interests do not match, the developing world needs to bootstrap itself to the next economic level while the West economies tend to take aggressive advantage of any market as our goal is the creation of our wealth not for the benefit of the markets that such behaviour tends to suck dry.
Or not.
Shh.
Ah. Well I'm afraid we may be out of luck then.
Cheers,
Ian
It has happened many times before in many countries and with many issues. US allways pushes other countries to have laws mimic its own.
During the Argentina's default/devaluation crisis, US (through the IMF) made Argentina's congress pass a bankrupcy law in the term of the chapter-11 kind of thing the US has (IANAL). Anne Krueger (head of the IMF then) told everybody Argentina had to "adapt its legislation to the international standards" (i.e. US' standard).
They were foreseeing massive bankrupcies, but none (significant) happened so no US-based companies took control of any troubled local company.
Before that bankrupt companied were handled by a judge in a specific way, not handed to the lenders.
I am an Australian and am completely sick of our Governments (both parties) acting like cheap hookers around US corporations. Screw you guys I am moving to Finland.
========
CINC, 4th Penguin Legion
The opposition has attached two non-negotiable conditions to their support of the "Free" Trade Agreement legislation. The government has said will not agree to one of these conditions. This might delay the passage of the legislation until after the next election, by which time the balance of power could have changed and the legislation can be considered on its merits instead of political manoeuvring. If the deadlock is never resolved the legislation might die a natural death.
There would be a few of us, but there would be a lot of 'not if you were the last nerd on the island' talk.
Harmonisation with a broken system, would have been better for the US to adpot Austrailia's rules :/
That US patents will apply to Australian software developers? Australia's economy is tiny compared to the US, and I'm not keen on the effect this has on Australia IT startups trying to avoid the patent highwayman on all the backroads... :(
Anyone know of a large island that is well connected to the Internet? ...offhand I'd say Australia. ;)
-Looking for a job as a materials chemist or multivariat
How do you tell the last nerd to loose their job
due to IP and patents that he has been pauperised
for a mistake.....
I have yet to see anyone mention the real force behind the devolution of the copyright bargain throughout the world. People here on Slashdot go on endlessly about the evil of Windows and Bill Gates, but utterly fail to acknowledge the real source stifling innovation: Rupert Murdoch.
Legislation slows progress. In time, nations that do not have these silly laws will surpass those that do in terms of innovation. The question is, will the DMCA countries repeal these laws before that happens or after.
UNIX/Linux Consulting
Today, the final shread of faith that I had left in my government has finally disappeared. I am now sorry to be Australian.
I "know" why they're doing this. The same reason they got into politics in the first place. Power. Money. Fame. Although perhaps the wholesale "if you don't cave in, you can forget about trade and any kind of military protection in the future" line from the US government helped seal the deal.
What I do not understand is how these people sleep at night, knowing they have sold out every last Australian they supposedly represent. Do they lie in bed next to their loved ones and think "today I signed away my people's freedoms to foreign companies; what a great leader I am"? Or are they just so profoundly stupid that they can't see the plague they are about to unleash on us?
To the Liberals and Labor: you make me ashamed to even be the same nationality as you. If I ever hear you utter the word "freedom" again, I will be sick.
I'm going to cry in the corner now. You can rest easy knowing that you've betrayed us all.
We're geeks... We're the sorcerers of the modern-day world. --
Apparently the government of Australia has nothing better to do than to attempt the killing of the IT industry of Australia.
The idea behind the so-called "Free Trade" treaty will work when ALL countries on this Earth adhere to it, and enforce it. But while there are countries which do not have such strict laws, the countries implementing such laws will suffer a severe competitive disadvantage.
The result will be that the law will be evaded by taking work elsewhere. This means lost revenues and hurts the Australian IT industry.
Have you noticed how the Internet and things dealing with it are slowly sinking into a swamp full of legalization? The reason is to attach to the Internet the same power structures as the "old" business has, the same rulers, the same power players, the same mind-numbing consumer-grade nothingness.
I do not moderate.
The FTAA - similar deal, but relating to the Americas, scheduled to be signed on early 2005, has a prevision for DMCA like anti-circunvention law requirements by all parties.
It, however, states that "Computer Programs" are not subject to patenteability.
It is on chapter XX of the third draft for the FTAA. Subsection B.2.c (Copyright and related rights), articles 21, 22, 23 contain the DMCAish stuff. Patents are described further bellow.
-><- no
This whole "IT revolution" meme needs to be shot. And before that happens, stuff is likely to get far worse first.
It would please me to no end if such a thing could come to pass. Unfortunately, history has shown that the only way to put a stop to trends that benefit the rich at the expense of the poor is to shoot the rich. And even then, the effect is only temporary.
So... follow the money to understand why these laws are pushed through, but realize that consumer backlash will eventually set things right.
businesses (both US and Australian) have a compelling interest towards more trade
Except when the agreements that would increase trade come with riders that decrease the trade in those businesses' products. This is true especially of the electronics sector, where the Bono Act + DMCA + patents on math in this so-called "free" trade agreement would tend to either make products either less desirable or ban them outright.
Since the Aussie's dont have 'fair use' rights, the logic of the WTO would conclude that the USA has to drop their citizens 'fair use' rights to conform with the lowest common denominator between the countries.
This is the real danger of the WTO, as it forces you to ingore your laws, in favor of some other countries concept of right and wrong..
---- Booth was a patriot ----
The FTA has not passed the Australian senate, and
_ __
most likely will not be ratified until after this
year's Australian federal elections.
The hold-up is being caused by the major opposition
party in Australia not agreeing to terms set forward
by Americans regarding the fedral acquisition and
subsidies of pharmaceuticals.
Hopefully this sticking point will render the FTA
void and hence stop any further destruction of the
Australian patent and intellectual property laws
Arash Partow
_______________________________________________
Be one who knows what they don't know,
Instead of being one who knows not what they don't know,
Thinking they know everything about all things.
http://www.partow.net
Arash Partow's Philosophy: Be a person who knows what they don't know, and not a person who doesn't know.
=)
The more draconian countries get with 'IP' rules, the less said countries actually innovate. This is similar to the industries monopolized by IP giants.
Take for example the hated SCO. They are so focused on IP litigation that their product line is dying.
Microsoft has the same problem, especially with security provisions. So many have probed the limits of this common OS and since it has not significantly changed in over 6 years, exploits are easy.
What will happen, in the end, is that these countries will become more dependent on other, more flexible ('hungry?') countries for future innovations. And their influence in the world will lessen.
If America has Australia adopting their legislation as a Canadian I worry, will we be next? To give Canada something like the DMCA would be horrid. Right now I enjoy some particular freedoms of our countries IP legislation but am disgruntled because of our numerous levys on many electronic things. I hope Canada is isn't taking a turn for a worst. Probably not in the next four years because minority governments never do anything ;)
1. Are you a Primary Producer? [read Farmers and Miners]
The Primary Producers have so much sway even in this day and age. They get more access to sell Tin/ Chrome/ Wool/ Lamb and the technology and intellectual capital gets shoved under the rug.
This is what has occurred here.
Australia is entirely dependent on US for defence as well. The Australian Army has enough ammunition for 3-5 days of full combat. There is almost always a few days lead time before invasions, and these two combined is designed for enough time for the US to step in and back us up. This is why Australia is so closely aligned with the US.
Australia is content having the Brain Drain. To the politicians on both sides, the net benefit outweighs the loss of innovation.
[% slash_sig_val.text %]
What makes you think the liberals have sold out any less than the conservatives ? It's not like Clinton signed the DMCA into law, or anything.
The vague hope lies in us somehow electing a third party or non-politician politician. We've got the same chance as a paper dog chasing an asbestos cat through hell.
--LordPixie
So does this mean I cant keep downloading Yahoo Seriously movies?
"Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
Odd that 'harmonizing' is always in one direction - for some reason, no one ever wants to decrease IP regulation to harmonize with some other country.
Maybe it has something to do with making money as opposed to not making money. Remember, a company that has IP can generate jobs and make money for the government in the form of taxes. Removing IP and you just dropped the bottom out of that market, which may be profitable for developing countries.
I used to be in favor of balance, and moderation, and rights of creators etc. Now, I have no such feelings. I watch as the copyright extremists win battle after battle by taking a stance that strengthening IP laws is not only necessary but a moral imperative. They use words like pirate and theft, while we say balance and culture and freedom of expression. They have a clear agenda and deep pockets while our oposition is under funded and constantly debating on what balance means.
Furthermore there seems to be no way we are ever going to get our legislators to understand the harm that increasing the power of is having. Legislators are free to enact these laws because the average person has no chance of understanding copyright.
The only way we are going to get any change is by adopting a similarly extreme position. By completly ignoring copyright law or deliberately acting against it. Bankrupt the content owners' legal fund and clog the courts with infringement cases. Act against the goverments position in favor of the will of the people. In short, we need revolution. That is the only way we will ever see positive change.
...there would be a lot of 'not if you were the last nerd on the island' talk.
You know, I get this a lot. A lot. But I bet it's just hollow bravado. I'm quite confident that after becoming the last nerd on the island, you'd be signing a different tune. =)
--LordPixie
I think that all Aussies with an interest in being able to use their computers unencumbered should really make their frustration over this deal known now. While it may be too late to stop the FTA, we still might be able to make a difference. Hopefully if we make enough noise the media and politicians will stop ignoring the IP aspects of the FTA.
So, start sending letters to newspapers. The FTA is a hot topic in the news right now, so there's a good chance it will be accepted (see letter second from the bottom).
You can send letters to the editor at the following addresses:
The Australian
Sydney Morning Herald
The Age
If US Slashdotters are keen, they could even send a "letter to the editor" detailing the problems with the DMCA and software patents that Australia will now face.
You can also let your feeling be known to the shadow minister for the Arts, Sport and Information Technology (Senator Kate Lundy). Her contact details are here. Be sure to mention that this issue will affect your vote.
You can also find out what electorate you are in, if you don't already know, and send your local federal MP a message about how disappointed you are over the FTA's impact on the IT industry.
While the timing of the posting of this story on Slashdot wasn't ideal (most Aussie Slashdotters won't be awake for another 5 or 6 hours), hopefully a reasonable number will read this in the morning and take action.
All these politicians are completely crazy to push for the delocalization of the application servers.
In protest all Australia Open Source and Small software vendor developers should on mass purchase a airline ticket to New Zealand on a date close to the signing of the treaty. Then forward a photocopy of the ticket to their state and federal representatives explaining that they are looking to emigrate because of the adoption of such business hostile draconian legislation.
It's not like Clinton signed the DMCA into law, or anything.
Even if then-President Clinton didn't want the DMCA and the Bono Act to become law, he could not have stopped them, as both the House and the Senate passed the Bono Act and the DMCA by voice vote. Under the Constitution for the USA, a presidential veto has little if any hope of beating a voice vote, as it takes 81 percent in favor to pass a law by voice vote (that is, one-fifth to force a roll call) but only 67 percent to override a presidential veto.
The vague hope lies in us somehow electing a third party or non-politician politician.
What you want in this case is a member of a small-government party such as the Libertarian Party in the USA or a foreign counterpart. You might want to read the Cato Institute's position on copyrights and patents.
We've got the same chance as a paper dog chasing an asbestos cat through hell.
All political parties take time to get a foothold in government. To get more libertarians into an elected federal office, start at the level of the legislature.
Methinks Crocodile Dundee was entirely American. Way too many stereotypes for it not to be :-/
"Richard Stallman has used his wealth (in terms of programming time, energy) to create software that is free-er, and is much more powerful than he would have been had he not done it. "
Sure, and for his trouble, he's called names from every end of the political spectrum.
You were mistaken. Which is odd, since memory shouldn't be a problem for you
Anyone know of a large island that is well connected to the Internet?
Niue might not be large (check the stats on CIA site), but it's beautiful and THE WHOLE AREA is covered by freely accessible Wi-Fi network. Plus - they have cool Net domain ".nu". Just think - GNU colony could have the website g.nu!
It is time for other countries to stand up and say "no" to bringing their laws into "conformance" with those of the United States.
Software patents (especially for common sense processes), DMCA-like laws, etc. are nothing more than measures for "corporate welfare," destroying the property rights and other rights of consumers and small companies in favor of protecting the business models of megacorps and giant trade organizations. This is the effect these things have had here in the USA.
If your lawmakers plan on playing along with these stupid laws, you should vote them out BEFORE they even have a chance to pass them in your country.
"You spoony bard!" -Tellah
I live in Finland and it's getting worse and worse over here as we're part of the European Union.
Estonia seems to be a nice alternative, the country is ruled by people at their thirties and if you can get your salary from a foreign company you are going to live like a king over there. Their average salary is around 350 euros/month, in Finland the basic unemployment benfefit is about the same level...
The way it is looking too unless something major can happen the UK and Europe are heading the same way....
Web Sig: Eddy Currents
"You follow our rules and everything will be harmonious."
Certainly gives me the feeling that signing a free trade agreement with the U.S. is akin to going into business with Tony Soprano.
I think you are right.
But your attitude is not favorable for such an endevor. You need to think more Ghandi, less Malcom X.
Technical sophisticates are generally pro individual rights, anti corporate IP (as long as these individuals are more technical sophisticate than they are corporate-powermonger / capitalist-imperialist).
The solution then is to generate more technical sophisticates. Educate the people how to exercise the freedoms that are being stolen. People who can exercise these freedoms soon see the value of them. People will defend the freedoms they deem valuable.
What countries don't suck yet? Do they need programmers?
I used to get really mad about this stuff too. But it's a smaller piece of the picture. IP is just silly and will go away as part of a much larger revolution--eventually we'll be hosted on computers and we'll look back and laugh. I've started with castration.
-I am an elective eunuch.
As far as I can tell, as an American, I cannot go through my day without breaking the law. My quest is no longer to be a law-biding citizen, that's impossible, but rather not to get caught.
Even the bleach for my laundry says it's a felony to use the product inconsistent with its labeling. So, if rather than measuring the one-cup recommended amount I pour it in guessing, they could put me in jail.
Yes, but they'd never do that I hear someone saying for such a minor infraction. Uh-huh. Here in Atlanta a man was put in jail because a Viagra pill fell from his wallet when he retrieved his license for a police officer. He had a legal prescription; the problem was not that he had the pill. He was jailed because the pill was not being stored it's original container. Some jail time, sexual abuse checking cavities during intake, a few thousand dollars in fines, attorney and court costs and he's again a free man.
I cannot speak words strong enough to convey my conviction of the need for a totally un-traceable, encrypted form of P2P. This is not the United States I learned about in school. Maybe it never existed. But I know today is doesn't.
Other countries have faced or are facing this same thing. I don't believe greed and the desire for the power to control the masses is inherently American. I believe it will get to the point where certain laws are just going to have to ignored. This is where I think the P2P solution comes into place. Abet, it will only be a temporary solution. They will eventually outlaw and trace encrypted packets.
-[d]-
As a US citizen and a Republican(I do realize this is an inconsitant position) I think free trade is bad. It works in the EU because there exists a ballance of relative captial. The poorest EU nation is only about 1/2 of the richest, compared to our NAFTA partners this difference is small, with the exeption being Candia our next nearest(in wealth) partner is Mexica at 1/6 of our economy. This inballance leads to some strange market behavior. I think people also need to admit that capitalism and free market work really great on the national scale, but really badly on the international scale. There are simply not enough players of relatively equal ability. I am talking number of individuals in a natial economy vs. National players in a global economy. Other then the EU which is fast organizing itself into a nation rather then a group of trade partners free trade is only creating loosers and no winners elsewhere in the world. Some mega corps might be winning but even the US as a whole is probably loosing economicly due to free trade. This has allot to do with the factors of production being way to mobile in the modern economy.
Now, that I have may almost made to breif case against free trade on economic terms, let me state it on some others. If every nation just adopts each others laws and policies to be "compatible" then why have their own governments? As a nation it makes some since to just being different then others. Think when you have an obviously two sided question like are software patents and anti-circumvention laws a good idea, try both. The Au is being dumb, there is a feeling against this and the US has done the other. So the prevailing opinion there is these are bad ideas. If the Au was smart they would follow their own gut reaction. Why? The already think not doing it is a good choice and the other players have gone for it. So if they don't do it and it turns out to be the choice that results in a stronger more inovative economy they might have a shot at becoming a dominante force, in those industries. Should'nt they want to lead the world in software technology rather then be one of the US followers. Why don't they want to have the next (hopefully more well behavied)Microsoft in Australia? The way to get it is to provide opertunity that does not exist in the US.
I am not routeing against my own nation here either I think the really thing that has hurt us most over the last 30 years is without the Soviets we have had no real competition. We might see new ideas get some traction here if people again saw success with inovative freer thinking else where in the world.
Media is another form of crack. Once people learn to shed their dependence and actually restrain themselves from acquiring everything that Media, Inc. pumps out, the resulting (hopefully significant) drop in revenue will send a clear message that either the rules of the game will change, or Media, Inc. will just have to settle for what it can scrape together from the smoking pile of wreckage that was one a thriving industry.
Has it ever?
Oper on the Nightstar
Odd that 'harmonizing' is always in one direction - for some reason, no one ever wants to decrease IP regulation to harmonize with some other country.
Sometimes harmonizing is the most inappropriate course of action.
Case in point: michael's continuous efforts to harmonize his role as a Slashdot editor (who makes a story available for comment) and a role as a Slashdot poster (who provides commentary independent of the story itself).
Knock it off, guy. If you have something to add to a story you should do it the same way the rest of us do, and be subject to the same rules of moderation.
SCO has a product line?
Once people learn to shed their dependence and actually restrain themselves from acquiring everything that Media, Inc. pumps out, the resulting (hopefully significant) drop in revenue will send a clear message that either the rules of the game will change, or Media, Inc. will just have to settle for what it can scrape together from the smoking pile of wreckage that was one a thriving industry.
Or option 3, twist the drop in revenue into "proof" of rampant piracy and disregard for IP laws, then lobby for special taxes that go directly into Media, Inc.'s pockets.
Ghandi lead people to collect salt from the Indian Ocean in defiance of the UK salt tax. The UK government arrested 100 people and shot 20.
Ghandi may have been a pacificist, but he wasn't a pussy.
"There are four boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order." Ed Howdershelt
even though you bought something, it's not really yours. So don't even THINK about opening it up and seeing how it works.
If someone says he and his monkey have nothing to hide, they almost certainly do.
Look to South America as well. It was chiefly Brazil, along with other South American, Asian, and probably African countries that took a stand at the world trade summit in Cancun last September. The group may not last, but it's the start of what you're talking about.
Was the Free trade agreement payback for supporting the war against Iraq?
I hope the Aussies have learned something from other FTA's with the US and have a binding dispute resolution mechanism that WORKS.
*** Where are we going? And what's with this handbasket?
Bye.
Maybe France is only anti-American legistlation and doesn't want to become yet another star on your flag. People don't hate Americans they just hate the lawyers in the US that cause problems everywhere else with their unfair laws.
Odd that 'harmonizing' is always in one direction - for some reason, no one ever wants to decrease IP regulation to harmonize with some other country. Instead of blindly drinking the /. kool-aid, why not postulate a likely theory to explain this point?
Perhaps "harmonizing" is always in the direction of greater IP protection for a reason. Here is a suggested explanation which seems more likely than a Schopenhaurian belief in the fundamental evil of people. Perhaps nations with better Intellectual Property protection are more economically powerful than nations with weaker IP protection. I doubt that this relationship is purely coincidental. So when two countries meet to work out trade agreements, the country with a better system and more to offer its partner is the one who sets the rules.
I don't think anyone is up in arms about arguing that IP rights are IDEOLOGICALLY superior to the "no private property" bias espoused on these boards day in and day out. But regardless of the arguable ideology of IP protection, it was envisioned, enacted, and continues to be supported for one reason and one reason only: it encourages innovation. Our history and legal enshrinement of this incentive, along with the historical industriousness of our workers and scientists, our natural resources, and our peace from internal conflict and division are the sole reasons why we are the world's most important economy. Look at the implications at least one, and realize that although the relationship may not be as simple as I'm making it out to be, There is a relationship between IP Rights and economic success as a nation.
This is a good suggestion.
It's not like the Australins are the ones who decided to enact draconian IP legislation. Harmonised IP laws would be a good thing if the DMCA wasn't in force. As it is, this system will lead to easier trade between the US and Australia, because trading partners on both sides will have a better idea what's legal. Blame the Americans if what's legal also sucks.
I don't think it's true that nobody has ever decreased regulation to harmonize with another country. I think that was the point of the various international copyright conventions, eliminating requirements like submitting a work to the national library of a particular country before it could be copyrighted.
um, GNU colon?
My old one's working just fine for right now, thanks.
They will never stop until somebody makes the
I dunno about you, but *I* sure wouldn't want to live in a Gnu colon.
-
- - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
You do know why Aussies always call each other "mates" don't you? It's short for "inmates", harkening back to the days when Oz was a Brit penal colony.
Just think - GNU colony could have the website g.nu!
Some squatter already took it.
What I don't really get is why other countries are so interested in doing things our way. The DMCA sucks, why "harmonize" with it at all? Why not encourage the USA to "harmonize" with Australia, or the EU (before they copied the DMCA and software patents that is), etc?
Come on guys, us Americans is just a bunch of numbskulls. You isn't gonna want to keep doin' what we doin' forever. Surely there's a smarter and fairer bunch of lawmakers out there somewhere that can think for themselves?
capitulates^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hsigns this treaty, where would those self-same developers go then?
Sadly, the US plan to make everyone else's trade laws subservient to their own just seems to keep marching on.
From a Canadian's perspective, 'free trade' with the US means being required to accept their terms, and letting them be the ones to determine that their $300bn farm-bailout is a legitimate emergency measure, whereas any other nation doing a farm-bailout is accused of unfair trade and subsidies.
As a group, American's (or at least their politicians) seem to be massively xenophobic and closed while trying to make sure everyone in the world is forced to import whatever the Americans are selling.
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
I always hated that saying. Finding one exception proves there can't possibly be any more?
I'm swedish, and we have that exact saying, translated very literally from english.
"Undantaget bekräftar regeln". After reading your post I now realize that the proper translation (and probably the original form) is "Undantaget prövar regeln"
"Prövar" means "tests". This implies that the exception tests the rule and causes it to fail, just as you said. And of course pröva and prove are obviously related words.
I will take it upon myself to spread this wisdom to my entire nation. My workmates will probably be extremely bored by my linguistical nitpicking, and will throw small objects at me to make me stop (as always).
I choose to remain celibate, like my father and his father before him.
Well, no. We changed our patent laws to be a closer match to the European ones some years back. Not for something as obvious as patentability issues, but minor things like terms and such
"I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
The EU has a balance of relative capital??? Yeah, like Iberia and esp. Eastern Europe aren't going through a major transition away from dire poverty.
The EU's success has more to do with the fact that corporations aren't the only ones with transnational rights. They have a parlaiment, not just a secret "free trade" court system intended to maximize corporate profits to the exclusion of all else. Face it, NAFTA is Kool Aid compared to the EU's 'V8' juice.
The economic hard-Right doesn't need an atrocity like the Soviet Union to have healthy competition of ideas. As seen in the EU and Canada, a hard-Left presence keeps the other side honest... especially where coalition governments are possible. The U.S. system is a sick system based on the false dichotomy of Right and Center.
As to the length of life, for the poor who are subjugated still by the pharmacology industry - life still ends roughly at the same time, when sickness or infirmity prevent continuous work for an extended length of time whether the work derived from them is 40 years or 80 years worth. The bourgeois benefit and the proletariat continue to be subjugated, so extended life expectancies are not a factor to consider in this respect.
Perhaps, dear comrade, you consider only direct violence to be the intent of the grandparent post, consider also that the situation is effectively the same when the subjugation of the proletariat is enforced with that scale of violence.
In AU the Liberals are the right wing.
Not to be confused with CA where the Liberals are the left wing.
It's really important not to lose focus over this whole patent/DRM/DMCA issue.
No matter which country makes what laws, the lowest common denominator for all of them is you and I, the consumer. We are the people that hand over money for these products and if we don't hand over the money, the products don't sell and marketing people start dying from coronaries.
Whatever you or I do or say now, the fact is that the global corporations have western governments in the palm of their hands through political sponsorship, lobbying and backhanded bribes.
Added to that, those same corporations, through hype, marketing and advertising, have turned their products into cool or must have products, the possession of which, you are told, somehow elevates you above the rest of the human race who don't own that product.
As consumers, all we need to do is just get some focus back in our lives and look at the wider picture when we spend our money on products that are heaped with patents & DMCA. I'm not suggesting abstinence (I like gadgets, games and music as much as the next man) but we need to be sure what it is our money ultimately finances before we buy any products.
I'm in my early forties now and my time for cool and conformity is over. But I look at the generations of people beneath me and I feel sorry for them because the majority seem to have become the puppets of the marketeers - designer clothes, Nike trainers, latest mobile phones, plasticised music - a bottomless pit of disposable income for the corporations.
Again, I don't want to deny anyone the right to spend their money how they want to but we must keep driving the message home that every time you buy a product, there is a risk that your money ends up limiting someone's freedom - either someone in the Third World's right to a decent income or your own rights to fair usage of products.
It's only when we grow up as consumers that we can stop buying heavily patented products & force the corporations to change...
Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.
You really like those deaf girls, don't you?
A dyslexic boy and a deaf girl. That's a match made in Slashdot heaven !
--LordPixie
"Circumvention of copy-protection measures" translates to "circumvention of price-fixing measures" in SlashSpeak.
I guess it's time for me to start downloading and playing "Breaking the Law".
The ALP has NOT agreed, yet, to suppot the enabling legislation that would make the US FTA law despite what the Herald Sun says.
They have said they are willing to support it if the Government will make key changes to the agreement to protect the Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme.
This is not a done deal, yet.
A dream is good. A plan is better.
It's not worth it guys. Free trade with America is not bilateral. In Canada, we're screwed daily by America on issues like Softwood Lumber, Wheat, and fresh water
We're screwed on our water and forced to export it against our will.
We aren't allowed to pass legislation on split run magazines.
If there's an american lobby group that wishes higher prices, they can buy off some congressmen and get trade blocked.
Free trade with America is a farce. The only goods that flow freely are the goods that aren't protected by American lobby groups.
They will tie you up in litigation for years before opening up their market to you.
American Congress is a bunch of industry whores, nothing more.
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
That is the linberal party rather than the labour party.
I must say that New Zealand is looking better all the time. We've always made jokes about sheep in NZ and their accents. But with our "American arse-kisser" of a PM, the whole fear-mongering "war on terrorism", and now this FTA - NZ isn't looking so bad! It's not far and I have relatives other there. If the DMCA-like and other IP parts of this FTA turns out as bad as we're fearing, I think we will see a large trans-Tasman migration. And not just of IT workers but even whole companies could move their base over.
Australia signed a FTA agreement with China last year, this agreement didn't impose China's copyright system on Australia, it didn't impose restrictions or traiffs, for want of a better word it was a "FREE" trade agreement. Now we have a "FREE" trade agreement being offered with the USA, it has restrictions on what can and can't be traded, it imposes changes to our legal system, it also imposes changes to our media content laws. How can this be seen as openly and freely trading with the US.
I'm no anti-Americian wacko, but some of the changes being imposed are down right un Australian in nature.
The Labor party will only pass the FTA if the Government parties accept 2 amendments, protection of local media content and our low cost medical drugs, else it will oppose it. I'd rather not see it happen at all.
There was an unknown error in the submission.
Everyone has their own uniquely bad impression of Crocodile Dundee.
(looks at the current laws)
"That's not a law"
(looks at the proposed laws)
"Now that's a law!"
Of if Crocodile Hunter is more your fancy
"Shh, now look ova theh. Those copyright laws are sitting quietly. Now I'm going to run ovah theh and shove me thumb up his bum"
General site for Pariliament of Australia
House of Representatives
Senate
Let me just say it for the whole country.
Hey Australia! SUCKERS!!! signed, Microsoft, Sun, The SCO group, George Asshole Bush and the USPTO.
The government which is strong enough to protect you from everything is strong enough to take everything from you.
Thats right as it stands this morning (according to nine news(for what thats worth)) the amendments put forward by the ALP have been rejected by the Liberals. If the ALP (has some backbone)lives up to its claim that it will block the passing of the bill, then alls well in .au
No DMCA for me thankyou.
We really need to make this issue stand out to the pm.
email John Howard - http://www.pm.gov.au/email.cfm
It is important we explain why patents/DCMA style laws are an issue. Australia really only has 1) natural resources 2) tourism. Tourism changes really quickly with things like SARS, and is unpredictable. We have a high adoption of IT, it's one of the best areas for growth - why are we trying to stiffle innovation in that area?
Hopefully with enough emails, he'll at least have to address the issue publicly.
Secondly, while it might be a big deal to the readers of Slashdot and the specialised financial writers (like Ross Gittins, economics writer for the Sydney Morning Herald whose anti-FTA articles were linked to here), for the vast majority of the Australian population it's just not an vote-changing issue, particularly for the morons in the marginal seats who decide Australian elections. And winning the next election is the only thing the current "conservative" government cares about; good government is a very long way down their list of priorities.
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo
--Andy Finkel (J. Klass?)
Gnu Zealand.
Time makes more converts than reason
We also have compulsory voting, which does a pretty good job of putting fear in our politicians.
Coincidently there is an article on smh.com.au detailing how the only legal music we can put on iPod at the moment is the music a user has created. No iTunes music store, and Rip. Burn. Mix. isn't legal here. (With no enforcers.)
Crappy voting records? But you get fined if you don't vote, right? If you were a geek, wouldn't that money be better spent on gadgets?
Karma: It's all a bunch of tree-huggin' hippy crap!
Or our politicians, apparently.
I believe Niue's highest point above sea level is only four metres however... :)
Our IP Laws are stuffed too, i cannot find a reference but i know sombody walked into the patent office not long ago (within the last 2 years i think) and patented the wheel.
Only in Australia!
Weapon
Its looks to me like your Mr Bush has been amazing allies, friends and family by shoving his hand up our politician's butts and making them say whatever he wants again...and all without his lips moving too! Oh Mr Bush, you're so talented, and all with such wooden spineless dummies!
These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
You mean Gnu Zealotland?
That's how I used to vote too, but then I learned that that preferences only come into play when none of the parties in contention are able to get >=51% of the vote. If you vote for the minor parties, and give only 2nd or lower preference to Labour, it's possible that Labour will lose simply because they didn't get enough of the first-preference votes. If the Liberal party (they're called Liberal, but really should be "wannabe-Republicans") get 51% of the vote, then it's all over, they win. More info at the Aust Electoral Commission site - http://www.aec.gov.au/_content/what/voting/votes_c ount.htm
Australia and New Zealanad already have their own free trade agreement, quite a close one too. Whatever laws or regulations that Australia would inherit from the States as a result of that FTA would probably spill over into New Zealand as well.
(disclaimer, IANAL and my recollection may well be flawed) ...a legal system where the supreme court has already told Big Media to get fucked over the concept of "DVD's are software" and ruled that they are for all legal purposes to be treated indentically to Video movies and, hence, bypassing region coding is LEGAL if it allows a person to view a LEGALLY ACQUIRED movie.
:) of net benefit to the country and our legal system (and that in the US) should tidy up any sloppy seconds.
ie: The Australian Supreme court has already ruled that you can not use the technological methods to obfuscate the actual function of an item; a dvd movie is NO DIFFERENT to a video movie beyond its sound and picture quality.
The same court ruled region zoning as an unfair barrier to trade. Government legislation CANNOT overturn case law until the legislation itself has been tested in court AFAIK. It has also found that you can do whatever the fuck you like to something you own as long as you dont break the law. Therefore it is legal to chip your PS2 to play Japanese games, but illegal to chip it to play pirated games; as well it should be.
Our judges here may be fucked up when it comes to dealing with criminal law (rapists and child molesters regularly get non-parole periods that do not exceed their natural lifespan), but are pretty switched on when it comes to managing civil law.
I dont know where the "no fair use protection" crap comes from either; Fair Use (not by that name) is implicit in Australian civil law, particularly as relates to consumer products. Our copyright law in particular has strong fair use protection.
The FTA is IMHO (I work in the manufacturing sector and regularly deal with US companies and we crap all over them in terms if flexibility and cost effectiveness, remove tarrifs and our crap is cheaper
Also, software patents are likely to be a hard sell, once again, IIRC, our Supreme Court has already ruled that software code is a publication protected by copyright law and, therefore, cannot be an invention covered by patent law. I am fairly certain the same is true of mathematical methods, although I could easily be wrong here.
Anyway, in summary; legislation ISNT law until it passes the courts and I think you will find the FTA itself allows for aspects deemed not legally binding to be overturned in the courts without validating the agreement, our Government is not allowed to make descisions which effect our legal precedent unilaterally, thats why we have separation of the powers between legislature and judiciary.
just my $0.02
err!
jak
It is not large, but it is well connected.
Sealand
He said large island :-)
Weird, but there you have it. Labor == political party, labour == work. No, I don't understand it either.
We also have the Liberals (who are more conservative than Labor), smaller parties in the Democrats and the Greens, and assorted independents.
It was more interesting when One Nation were a force in politics. I'd vote for the fish-and-chip lady in a heartbeat even if only to ruffle the others' feathers.
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
...when you willingly hand over your assault weapons? Australia, you had this coming.
So did anyone see any mention of IP law, DMCA, or any such provisions in the Herald-Scum article? No. Because there is little or no debate on this issue in Australia, save the occasional opinion piece in the newspaper, to be read by the AB demographic only.
In fairness to the Labor Party, they have mentioned these things in the attachment to their press release yesterday, which provides some remarkably non-commital statements such as 'examining options for broadening fair use' etc etc. Typical politician stuff.
"I think it would be a good idea" Gandhi, on Western Civilisation
I don't know if you're interested, but I have begun my own political party here in Oz, Net Effect, whose ideals are left leaning but with a sound basis in understanding technology and best of all, we're proponents of open source and making more flexible rules instead of clamping down. Personally I'd abolish copyright and patents, but for the party stance it would be up to a member vote. I'd settle for a ten year copyright term :)
See my sig for more info, and consider becoming a member (there's only 15 right now so you'll be in at the ground floor and have a real say in matters).
Visceral Psyche Films
"Anyone know of a large island that is well connected to the Internet?
:)
Great Britain?
Cheers,
Ian"
He said "large"
Why not get involved in a new political party (see sig) that has no prior baggage and will fight for our rights, not hand them over for a few crumbs from the US?
Seriously, take a look. I started Net Effect precisely because I felt the same way you do, but thought "Why not do something about it?"
I've made a party that is completely open, has an online forum to assist in policy creation, and has the interests of Australians at heart, not the interests of the US.
I have 15 members, but if neough people were willing to commit to trying to change for the better, I think we could be a new type of politics in Australia.
Incidentally, for all non-Australians, the party's Constitution etc are all open to be taken and used in your own party - build on it, change it, submit changes back to our own if you have ideas that you htink could make it better. In short, the party's set up to be a type of open source politics, in the hope that we get a party that is actually structured the way it should be!
Visceral Psyche Films
As it was, they blew it. Instead of having a national broadband network, they let two companies slug it out with the result that Cable Internet never took off. Telstra, the phone monopoly, still controls everything and has kept prices high. (Can you say "$150 per extra Gigabyte?") Plus a tax regime which is biased against IT contractors; yes, you have to work on contracts and lose out on benefits, but they still tax you at personal income rates and you can't offset any earnings into next year.
And now this sell out on Software Patents. The last reason to be an IT company in Australia just vanished.
John Howard and Mark Latham are guilty of high treason. They sold out this country. If Latham somehow wins the election I'm sure he'll be brown nosing George W. at his Texan ranch. Unlikely though. If Australians want a Liberal-party Government they will vote Liberal. Not for this truly pathetic imitation by blubber-boy with a bad haircut. He should go back to beating up taxi drivers. What a truly useless sack of excrement this Mark Latham is.
95% of consumers are unlikely to realise what they have lost before it is too late.
Eh? And Canadians spend all day, unable to reign in their massive inferiority complexes and ignorance about their southern neighborhood.
THe latter seems to happen on this hive-mind website from hell on a daily... hell hourly basis.
The US is using a very clear strategy that runs like this:
We will reduce a small proportion of our illegal tarrifs and trade protection around agriculture and manufacturing (as much as we can without pissing off the middle americans who work in these industries) if you allow us to dominate your IP-dependent service industries - in other words: mortgage your future for a few extra bucks right now.
The idiots agreeing to this have been told that they'll be the US' IP bitch forever more, but the debate is also tied up with political issues e.g. "security concerns" (racism) that requires Australia to align itself economically with other Western countries rather than e.g. China, which would make a lot more economic (and, long term, political) sense.
The issues aren't simple - no one wants to be seen to be not aligning with the US, the farmer lobby believes that tarrifs are their main problem rather than broader structural changes in the economy, and the US is very good at influencing the media to make life very difficult for those opposing its interests.
I write fixed-price mass-marketed commercial software for a living and find this development awesome.
Something no one will see Excerpt "find out who's giving money and who's getting it from the Presidential race down to local state representatives. See which political parties your neighbors are donating to. Learn about the powerful PACs and so much more. Get informed this election year!" Download, unzip, and then browse to index.html. You have to be online for some of the links to work.
It is proposed that there will be a corresponding increase in personal rights to match the US's 'fair use' rights. Part of this will allow the bypassing of encryption in order to exercise rights to use material that you own (e.g. viewing the data on a DVD).
The question is, will Australia follow through and actually implement these? If Howard gets reelected, don't count on it.
Read Pynchon.
We (Australia) are scared shitless of asia. Not speaking for myself, but many Australians are very scared of Indonesia and more vaguely of China. After all, if there was a serious regional or even world war, we're not exactly in the best geographical location. Although many Aussies would deny this, it is certainly a subconscious thread that permeates our society.
As a result, we do everything in our power to suck up to the USA, in the hopes that if we are ever attacked Uncle Sam will roll in and rescue us. Given you Americans don't need much prompting to get involved in dubious wars, and Asia is an old favourite of yours, I'm sure this would happen. I seriously doubt, however, that all of Australia's obsequious toadying is really going to make a difference, other than to make us a prime nuclear target because we will be an integral part of your stupid missile defence shield.
Read Pynchon.
The funny thing is the whole thing is a very raw deal - with insulting bits like you can't sell the US much beef but we'll let you talk about it again in EIGHTEEN years - and the whole reason Australia went into Iraq was for a promise of a good deal. Other countries did it for various reasons, be we only did it for the money (promise of sugar and beef trade to the USA) - so Australia got shafted with a tight time limit, high pressure sales, and a government that had to get a deal no matter how bad to bring some acheivement to the next election.
Hmmm, that's an interesting point. IANAL, but I can't see the nasties jumping over to NZ that easily. I would imagine our AU-NZ FTA would specify exactly what sort of laws and regulations would be "harmonized", just like this AU-US one. And I would also imagine it would take some work by the courts and/or government to bring the new laws and regulations into effect. They at least wouldn't turn up "automatically" with no warning. Now lets just hope that NZ has a healthier system of government and opposition parties than we do here in Australia. God damn John Howard and his wedge politics...
Working together we all have a better chance of changing bad laws and getting piss poor pollies tossed out. One US law I would like to see changed, is the ability of some backward redneck state to strip US citizens of the right to vote in federal elections (more people voting in the US would help to reduce the influence of the fundamentalist christian right).
Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
In a federal election, you must fill in each number for the vote to count. So you have to vote for everyone, even if you don't care for some candidates -- are usally forced to vote eventually for one of the two big parties as you vote is passed from your first preference to your second preference and so on.
There was a trick that you could vote eg 1 for the Greens, 2 for the Democrats, and then put 3 in each remaining square; technically a valid vote (a number in each square) but as soon as your second preference dies, you vote dies because no preference is discernible.
I suppose this has been "fixed" to be an invalid vote, but I don't know.
"Matters are made worse by the fact that, unlike Americans, Australians are not protected by 'fair use' provisions."
:) This response is based on the publically available information at http://www.copyright.org.au/, which is referenced from one of the copyright fee collector's at http://www.copyright.com.au and partly govt. funded (so it probably has some credence).
IANAL
The Copyright Act specifically provides the fair-use provisions that our US brethren seem to think we don't have. See information sheet G79. It's not written into our constitution arguably making it easier for a Government to change, but that is unlikely given the public benefit these provisions carry.
Conversely, the production of mod-chips and other such devices and circumventions is already cause for legal action under the Act. (Info Sheet G10)
Net change...probably very little.
Patent law on the other hand, will be used in an attempt to cripple the Australian Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme (PBS) by blocking generic drug manufacturers with frivolous patent claims and FUD. The opposition parties want the offending clauses removed and the government is sticking to their U.S. buddies (a depressingly common occurrence). IMHO the govt. is holding out precisely _because_ it knows the intended purpose of the clause and left it there as a concession to U.S. drug companies for leaving the PBS more-or-less alone.
I might be paranoid, but that doesn't mean the bastards aren't out to get me. I'm simply adhering to Rule #1: the U.S. government _never_ does anything that is not in its own interest.
Patent litigation: A doctrine of Mutually Assured Destruction... in which everyone seems willing to push the button
you had me at #!
No. The maths here isn't hard.
If I vote ALP, DEM, GREEN, LIB and the liberals get 51% of the primary, they win.
If I vote DEM, GREEN, ALP, LIB and the liberals get 51% of the primary, they win.
Either way makes no difference to the outcome.
Voting first preference for smaller parties vs ALP can only make a difference if no-one gets > 50% of the primary vote. In that situation you are actually better off having you first preference for the least popular condidate because then your second preference will be counted ahead of everyone else's.
So voting ALP first to stop LIB only works if you think that people who voted for the least popular candidate are going to vote LIB. Given that the least popular tend to be people like Nigel Freemarijuana (yes his "real" name). Do you really think they are going to vote LIB 2nd preference?
In general, preferential voting really does work the way it's supposed to and it really is best to vote in the order of your preference.
Side point: no electorate is ever "safe" - Pauline Hanson won in a "safe" ALP seat, numerous independants around the country have won in "safe" ALP, LIB or NAT seats. By voting "1" ALP, yours could be the vote that stops the greens (or whatever party you actually like) getting their first seat in the legislative assembly.
Yes it "works" - your vote will not be counted exactly as you seem to desire.
And is advocating this method still illegal?h 96/hrd05108.html ...
see this link where in 1996 someone did jail time for promoting this "hack" http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/other/ahric/hrd/Marc
I don't live in Aus anymore so I am fearless
See this:r eshold=0&commentsort=0&tid=123&mode=thread&pid=987 6061#9876806
http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=116648&th
Australians are protected by *some* fair use provisions (primarily for education/research purposes), but nowhere near those that the US have.
Looking at the copyright.org.au site that you quoted, two documents are especially interesting:
This document details the fair use provisions for CDs. In short, there are essentially none outside of the educational/research domain. If you rip MP3s from a CD you own, copy songs onto your iPod, or make a backup copy, you are violating copyright, and can be prosecuted.
Another document details fair use provisions for taping shows from the TV. Again, this is a violation of copyright.
Unless I am mistaken, the USA has fair use provisions for these activities, while Australia does not. In fact most of the activities that Australians take for granted as "fair use" are actually prohibited.
NZ better? Ha! As a Kiwi, I'd have to say... nope.
:)
I think software patents are already in place here, and any government that is in power (especially a National-led coalition) would sell us out to the Americans without a second thought.
Australia has much more investment and opportunity than NZ does. You're better off staying there, and when things get really bad, jumping to Canada or a European country. (Or learn another language and hop on over to Singapore or something
It's sad. I'm sorry Australia is falling to corporate interests - not the least because NZ will willingly follow closely behind.
Shit!
Does this mean that I have to throw away my home-made Mix CDs and stop using my portable MP3 player?!?
Summary of the summary:
And:
G'day.
You want to read the 1998 Amendments to the Commonwealth Electoral Act 1918 - section 329A has been nuked - this was the one that makes it unlawful to advocate the marking of a ballot other than in accordance with section 240 ( full preferential voting ).
'The Act has amended the Commonwealth Electoral Act 1918 so that, while it is no longer an offence to encourage a 'Langer-style' vote (e.g.1,2,3,3,3... etc), such votes for the House of Representatives will no longer be counted as formal votes.
Anyone advocating that electors vote in this manner will be encouraging electors to waste their votes entirely.'
Hope this helps,
YLFI
One god, one market, one truth, one consumer.