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Tap the power button to turn it on. Unfortunately, it does not require you to hold the key to activate it and as such, it tends to get accidentally powered up in your pocket.

I am submitting an article on the Archos Gmini 400. This has gone too far. 'oooh the ipod can view photos!' jesus christ.

Am I the only one who wants to be able to plug a camera directly into a mp3 player and transfer photos without needed a 3rd party (belkin) widget?

Nope. You should check out the Gmini 220. It has a built-in Compact Flash reader so you can drop your photos to the 20G hard drive on the road. It's greyscale, so you can review photos, but it isn't made for showing them off. It is really small and light (6 oz). A colleague has one and loves it.

And while Archos has a nice system it can't display RAW files either. So for now I'll stick with my 30 GB ipod, and my 20 GB Wolverine SixPac image tank.

The Archos AV300 and AV400 series have had the capability to display photos and album artwork on the device or via video-out for at least a year now. But perhaps they're not direct competitors, in the sense that they're higher-end products primarily for playing and recording video, not for music like the iPod.

Enter the Archos Gmini 400, a 20GB iPod-sized device that has practically all the features that this newly-announced iPod Photo has, and has been available since August. Plus, it has a CompactFlash card slot. Oh, and also it plays DivX video. And it costs barely $50 more than a non-photo G4 iPod of the same capacity.

Apple's products have more style, sure. But if you're looking for the best feature/price ratio, the common wisdom still holds -- consider non-Apple products.

This is a really savvy move by Apple.

They market this new feature of the iPod which really isn't anything too spiffy compared to the Archos. (http://www.archos.com/products/overview/gmini_400 .html?sid=j22ky2jsbjy33jsby433yk). But, with their massive spin machine, they'll enlarge their market share with this baby step, and then take the next step in hardware offerings by saying the next new iPod will play video.

This product is mostly old tech with great spin (and the Apple brand name).

I think it's a nifty move on Apple's part, but I'm wondering just how successful this one's gonna be (and how long it is until they unveil the next step -- video capability)...

-Chris

For only a hundred bucks more. Other similar devices have built-in compact flash slots, same or better battery life and better price. I'll pass on this, Apple.

To be honest, I'm extremely disppointed in the iPod Photo offering. Before I get marked down as a troll, I have many legitimate reasons:

I own an Archos gMini400. It plays DivX/XviD videos (full movies -- got Lord of the Rings and about a dozen MST3K episodes on this thing right now), views photos on screen and on TV (just like iPod Photo), plays music with album art (just like iPod Photo) and has 10 hours claimed battery life playing music, 5 hours video (although I've had it run closer to 7 hours). I also got mine for $340 by using CNet's pricewatcher feature.

Aside from the bigger hard drive, there's absolutely nothing to sway me to the iPod Photo from my gMini. The price is right, the interface is good (not as great as iPod's but few are) but an interface isn't worth $140 to me. The Archos works on both Mac and PC flawlessly, and even has a built-in CF slot (something photo sites have already frowned the iPod upon).

Unfortunately, I thought Apple's first color would have a lot more revolutionary features. Instead, they're playing catchup to other companies, with an expensive and not-so-worthy introduction into colored screens (I mean come on... they don't even win on battery life anymore). I'm personally very glad I jumped Apple's iPod ship a few months ago.

you mean like this http://www.archos.com/products/overview/av400_seri es.html ?

274 USD on ebay--- http://www.archos.com/products/overview/gmini_400. html

80 GB enough for ya?

Get one of these and you can watch pr0n movies in DivX and XviD. And it's the same size as an iPod.

"Now I just have to find $500..."

Save your money and get a gmini400 that does more for cheaper.

Their Gmini 400 is only 30 dollars more than a 20gb iPod, and has a lot of the same functions listed int he article (no PVR, smaller screen, 20GB). I have been an Archos customer for a long time, the Gmini 120 is one of the best devices I have ever owned! And I am actually buying a Gmini 400 today for my brother.

Anyone who is considering a high 200's priced MP3 player (iRiver, iPod, etc..) should take a look at the Gmini 400. And on the cheap, the Gmini 120 (~$150) is a great product!

The article description might be a little deceptive.
The Archos AV420 is only 20GB and it retails for about $470 on Amazon.com.
The AV480 is 80GB and is about $715 also from Amazon.com
Check out more information on the devices on Archo's own page located here.

When are these portable players/recorders going to include a decent (high-quality) microphone input.

Most of Archos' current product line has a microphone input (via included line-in dongle; you have to provide the mic and preamp yourself).

I bought a MiniDisc recorder for the purpose of recording live music about three years ago, and in retrospect wish I hadn't (or more accurately, wish that portable HD audio devices like today's had existed back then). For one, the mic jack ran extremely hot, even without a preamp; I had to buy a $5 Radio Shack headphone attenuator and put it into the signal chain to get a recording that was anything but clipped-out digital noise. For another, none of the portable MD models support digital OUT; they all have SPDIF In, but the only way to get a signal OFF the device and onto a computer is to patch it's analog line-out to your PC's analog line-in.

Here's a link to Archos Gmini 400. The specs say it works for both PC and Macs. The Archos AV 400 and Gmini 220 look pretty interesting too. The AV 400 looks like it's supposed to be a Portable Media Center for Windows XP Media Center Edition, but it isn't - it doesn't need a computer to record from television. I never heard of these products up until this point, and I think they look like serious competition for the iPod, even for Mac users.

I don't see why they don't just add stylii to these things so they can also be PDAs. Surely they can function as PDAs if you can install software like games on them. If they did so, these things could compete with PalmPilots, and they already look like they are already good competition for the iPod, Portable Media Centers, GameBoys, and Portable Playstations.

Here's a link to Archos Gmini 400. The specs say it works for both PC and Macs. The Archos AV 400 and Gmini 220 look pretty interesting too. The AV 400 looks like it's supposed to be a Portable Media Center for Windows XP Media Center Edition, but it isn't - it doesn't need a computer to record from television. I never heard of these products up until this point, and I think they look like serious competition for the iPod, even for Mac users.

I don't see why they don't just add stylii to these things so they can also be PDAs. Surely they can function as PDAs if you can install software like games on them. If they did so, these things could compete with PalmPilots, and they already look like they are already good competition for the iPod, Portable Media Centers, GameBoys, and Portable Playstations.

Here's a link to Archos Gmini 400. The specs say it works for both PC and Macs. The Archos AV 400 and Gmini 220 look pretty interesting too. The AV 400 looks like it's supposed to be a Portable Media Center for Windows XP Media Center Edition, but it isn't - it doesn't need a computer to record from television. I never heard of these products up until this point, and I think they look like serious competition for the iPod, even for Mac users.

I don't see why they don't just add stylii to these things so they can also be PDAs. Surely they can function as PDAs if you can install software like games on them. If they did so, these things could compete with PalmPilots, and they already look like they are already good competition for the iPod, Portable Media Centers, GameBoys, and Portable Playstations.

Here's a link to Archos Gmini 400. The specs say it works for both PC and Macs. The Archos AV 400 and Gmini 220 look pretty interesting too. The AV 400 looks like it's supposed to be a Portable Media Center for Windows XP Media Center Edition, but it isn't - it doesn't need a computer to record from television. I never heard of these products up until this point, and I think they look like serious competition for the iPod, even for Mac users.

I don't see why they don't just add stylii to these things so they can also be PDAs. Surely they can function as PDAs if you can install software like games on them. If they did so, these things could compete with PalmPilots, and they already look like they are already good competition for the iPod, Portable Media Centers, GameBoys, and Portable Playstations.

I agree.

Atleast they could mention that there are several NON MICROSOFT portable media players out there too:

Iriver pmp-120

Archos gmini400

When you have several articles touting A less featured microsoft/creative model without mentioning alternatives, sounds like advertisizing indeed.

This kind of device (portable media devices with 20GB+ HDs) is a must-have for any long trip in a vehicle when the user isn't the driver.

I bought one of these 20GB Portable Storage Devices (PSD for short) that came without any fancy LCD screen or Audio output, but did have USB 2.0 and a CF card so that I could have a 20GB store for all my photos when I was taking pictures on vacation. The total cost of the unit was about $240, but considering that I have no laptop, and didn't want to take a laptop-sized device with me, it fit the bill perfectly.

Now with the Archos GMini and the SmartDisk FlashTrax among these new entrants in the market, there are more uses than just a portable storage device.

I don't know if any of the new portable media centers can or will be able to directly connect to my camera via USB (I imagine it's just a matter of getting the right software on it), but if they want to have my business, they need at least a Compact Flash card, or I'm not getting rid of my Aplux Tripper PSD.

Don't knock the iPod for being a novelty item. It is a very well designed (and well marketed) pocket MP3 player. These new devices competing with Video and Photos and connecting to digital cameras in the same space at competing prices will surely force Apple to invest more in this market.

We are seeing a convergance in small digital devices. I predict that within a decade we will have a digital camera, cell phone, MP3 player, portable storage (20GB is low end, but maybe 20GB in Flash RAM), and Photo viewer in the form factor of a $100 watch.

The only thing preventing most of this today is battery consumption. But Sony, and other large corporations are certainly capable of producing the hardware, and they have designs on the drawing board. Japan will embrace these before the US. After all, what's new over here is 5 years old over there.

Archos already has 'em. They connect to the PC as a USB drive too, so there's no proprietary OS-specific BS.

I just wanted to mention this now, because in a year or two when Apple releases their video-iPod, the zealots will come out in droves claiming Apple "invented" it and everything else is a rip-off of Apple's design.

Just like they claim Apple invented the mouse, GUI based OS, portable MP3 player, WiFi, the laser printer, LCD monitor, etc..

I don't believe in video iPod as it would be simply not feasible. More like already been done Maybe not sellable, but that's a different issue. Here's a hint: video out is pretty cheap and easy to implement, so that 3-inch screen is NOT a limitation. Look at how many people are buying DVD players for their cars. Look at the cars that are already iPod ready. Now put 2 and 2 together!

They already have a video output!

Definately the best storage for the money here. These things are great. http://www.archos.com/products/prw_500455.html If you look around a bit, you could find one about $180. 20GB and not much larger than a MiniDisc.

Because archos has better mp3 players with more capacity for a lower price. not to mention they support images and video with a color LCD. They don't corrupt data and are very very fast.

I'm using an Archos Recorder V2. It's an MP3 player with a USB 2.0 interface and a 20GB hard drive. Windows sees it as a generic Mass Storage Device so you can just drag and drop files to and from it. It uses a standard 2.5" notebook hard drive. Those hard drives are expensive compared to desktop drives, but at least it's easy to upgrade the drive (up to a limit of ~120GB, if I remember correctly). It can run off a rechargeable lithium-ion battery, AC adapter, or USB power. I think they're selling for $150-$200 these days. If you get one, do yourself a favor and install the RockBox firmware.

I've also used various digital cameras the same way, but they tend to have less storage space available.

ARCDisk. 40GB, smaller than a floppy, less than four ounces, USB 2.0, $250.

Well unlike an ipod it plays video as well and audio. I personally can't wait until these type of devices become affordable to people like me. My personal favorite of this type is the Archos 400 which can also record video as well.

Both are beastly and just big enough to be uncomfortable in your pocket.

Everyone has a different taste for looks ... but I think these things should be designed much slimmer so they can be truely portable. Anything over 1" thick seems a little bulky especially wioth that much surface area. My PDA has a big screen and is only .4 inches think.

If you're going to by a portable device with that much space to store avi's, why not get something that can play them like this?

If Creative even wants to have a chance, they have to beat the Archos high end model with an 80gb hardrive . Thjat leads me to a more general point that all these new "jukeboxes" have far to little storage space. If I have 100+ gigs of music alone, I want to buy a portable that allows me to take it all with me. Where is my 300gb Nomad Zen!!!

Now that Archos, Sony and Creative labs have release video 'personal media players', will that mean that Apple will follow next with a video iPod?

The Archos ARCDisk uses a 1.8" HD unit, measures about 3" x 3" x 0.35", and is available now (amazon.com sells it, for example)

Archos ARCdisk

They're about the size of an mp3 player

One such device is an mp3 player, and mp3 recorder as well:
Archos gmini 220

Then you should check out the Archos Gmini 220.
...which is also based on an 1.8" drive, 20GB. It has a built-in cardreader for CF (and other media via an adapter). I have one that I download pics from my Nikon D70. It even can show jpegs on it's b/w lcd screen (crappy tho).
Drop me a mail if you want more info about it from me.

[jrockway said:]There weren't really and HD-based MP3 players before the iPod

What are you? Nuts?

Archosanyone? Since I remember these coming out in mid 2000, so sorry, you lose. Thanks for playing.

Creative had already had their Nomad out before the iPOD as well. Everybody else was doing chip-based mp3.

NOT TROLLING -- I'M JUST SICK OF THE "MAC DID IT FIRST" CROWD.

You guys are worse than AMIGA fans.

I was going to buy an iPod, but it's basically an expensive, disposable brick. Forget it. My player of choice is the Archos FM Recorder with Rockbox on it. It's reasonably small, sturdy, and it contains a 20 gig drive. The official Archos OS sucks ass, but Rockbox is ultra-fast, easy to use, and open-source to boot, which means I can write my own plugins (well, in theory). It comes with games, playlist editors, a text viewer, etc. There's no way iPod will ever be able to match that, especially considering the ~$120 price tag on eBay for Archos. Archos also makes a player called gMini 220, which has a neater form factor and a CF slot, but Rockbox is not available for it, and Archos's default OS sucks, so I can't recommend it.

There's no reason to assume that hard drives in the 1.8" and smaller form factor won't get bigger and cheaper, so a 20GB unit with the iPod Mini's size (like, maybe the Archos Gmini?) will be available shortly (The Gmini is only a little higher priced, only because nobody discounts the iPods much -- they don't have to).

So with 20GB, you can have more songs, or about 28 70-minute CD's-worth of uncompressed music. Seeing as most discs aren't full 70 minutes, we're probably talking close to 400 songs, without a lick of compression.

And if my math's a bit fuzzy? Six months later, it's moot, and you're back to 1000 songs... uncompressed.

Now uncompressed songs may not be optimal: you're running the drive more, probably shortening the battery life. Between the (usually) ever-cheaper, ever-denser RAM, and shrinking hard drives, battery life will probably depend on the amp circuit power eventually.

But what to put on a huge portable hard drive? When I bought a 20MB (yes MB) drive for a Mac in 1986 or 7, I barely filled it, because I had to fill it with stuff on 1.4MB floppies and 14Kbaud modems. My next PC in the early 90's with a 1.2GB drive seemed endless, because the CD-ROM held most of the media.

When games started shipping with 5-10 CD's, that's when HD capacity started to get tight. So now, it's easy to fill a 30GB drive (although the one on my laptop is 1/3 empty, mostly because I don't have an iPod).

So what else will you fill your jukebox with? Video? I don't think so. I want to watch on a 50" screen, not a 5" one. Photos? Maybe for pros, but my 256MB CF card is usually enough for a short vacation. Even for a couple weeks, I'm only eating a small piece of 20GB.

On the other hand... my PDA is habitually short on space, I want a GPS with maps on it, I want all my data in one place... What I really want is to carry the 'brains' of my computer around, and use it on whatever KVM (keyboard/video/mouse) I'm near.

Hmmm.

I know they could review only so many devices, but I'm disappointed they didn't review any Archos products at all. I've had my Jukebox Studio 20 for 2 years and it still works great. It might be a little heavier than most, but battery life has never been an issue for me. This thing rules. Why did they review 9 Memory players, and only 3 HD ones? What gives?

Who else had their favorite player ignored in this?

Its getting to the point where a company will have 'products' to show at the trade shows, but then you cant find any more information about it for the next year. Its very misleading and perpetuates the whole vaporware idea, where what you see before your eyes may not actually ever exist in the real world. One recent example is the company Archos who recently announced a new video/mp3 player with built in PDA...go to their website and there is no information whatsoever, not even a press release or a hype page. Companies need to set realistic timetables and not give in to the masses judging their whole existence based on one trade show. And we, as consumers, need to cut the companies a little slack if a project does get delayed or if they dont have much to show at E3. Maybe then things will be a little less hectic.

Recently, the Rockbox Open Source firmware replacement added voice support.

Considering that the rockbox firmware (which completely replaces the original (crappy) firmware) is free, multi-lingual, and has optionally enlarged fonts, I'd say go get one!

The Jukebox itself has a battery life of around 10 hours, and comes in 10-20GB versions, last I checked. Archos has recently been phasing these ones out of production, so you can find them cheap here and there, and off ebay.

Requisite reading:
Rockbox!
Archos

It also works with the Neo MP3 player which I don't have a handy link for.

Nope, it didn't support OGG. It was the first hard-drive based MP3 player released by Archos. The hardware was not able to play anything besides uncompressed (WAV) and MP3 audio files.

But hey, at least it has alternative open source fimware.

So, it only costs twice as much as the Archos players that are already out and that already have the same capabilities! I can't wait!

Archos has been doing this for some time, at half the cost with open formats compatible with multiple platforms. I personally have one of their first video capable models, the Jukebox Multimedia 20gb, and use it on Linux, Mac OS X, and Windows - same files for audio and video, no DRM other than common sense and respect.

Totally different beast to the iPod, and I very much doubt that it's an Archos killer.

Personally I find this to be a good thing. Reverse engineering, duplicating any device in hardware or software is cool. Copying the vaunted IPOD on a Windows Pocket PC? That's the ultimate in irony there.

I myself don't care for the IPOD or it's interface, so I've got no reason to play with this software. But the idea sounds interesting, if not particularly useful. What would be more impressive overall however, is if this company did something ala what Rockbox did for the Archos devices, and wrote a new OS to run on the IPOD itself.

How about a DVD portable with a 7" screen? Digix DVD seen at Fry's on sale for as low as $249, Reg priced at $349.99 that is one option, there is also the Archos though a tad pricey, at around $550. Then you have PDA's for $300 - $500. There are several others as well, check this link out Search results

Archos has various accessoris that let you transfer files from a CF card to one of their very portable hard drives that also play mp3s and mpeg4 video.