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I would agree that it's probably a bit early for a combination camera/browser, but I also don't think the day when all of the electronic crap people carry around can be combined into one device (without, for example, swapping springboard modules) is very far off. Certainly there are people who need to carry around a cell phone, PDA, and camera around often, doesn't it make sense to have 'em all in one? And once you've got all that, doesn't it also make sense to be able to get information to and from it anywhere in the world? Just because you're always in front of your P4/1Ghz machine with a 25" monitor doesn't mean the whole world is.

Also, when will people learn that the <pre> tag is not a toy?

So was PalmOS.

For example, the email program I use on my MP 2100 uses the standard contact information for getting its email addresses, and is treated by the system as simply another way to get information in and out of the system.

Again, PalmOS does this too.

The NewtonOS has a full TCP/IP stack, with communications being done over Ethernet, or PPP. The email, browser, ftp, irc, telnet, ect.. clients all use the standard protocols, and you can download new packages directly off of the 'net.

Once again, I do this with my palm. TCP/IP and PPP are built into the OS. While the applications you mentioned are not bundled with PalmOS, there are a wealth of them available for free.

With my Palm, I snap on a modem, plug in a phone line, and connect PPP to earthlink. Then I can check/send email (Eudora), "surf" the web (EudoraWeb, AvantGo, others), get on IRC, use AIM, use Yahoo! Messenger, and can telnet. All these clients use their respective "standard protocol."

I'm not saying the Newton isn't a great machine. Just that you're choices aren't as limited as you think.

wishus
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• http://www.OliveTree.com Bible-In-Pocket
• http://www.landware.com
• http://www.infinitysw.com
• http://www.standalone.com
• http://www.halcyon.com/ipscone/apcalc/overview.htm l
• http://snafu.de/~tjawer/tjhome.htm
• http://home.earthlink.net/~davidzimm/dizzysoft.htm l
• http://www.evolutionary.net/
• http://www.arslexis.com
• http://www.pocketsensei.com
• http://www.orbworks.com/
• http://www.netplus.freeserve.co.uk
• http://www.mobilegeographics.com/
• http://pdabusiness.com
• http://216.91.254.26/palm/
• http://www.tealpoint.com
• http://www.note-smart.com
• http://www.iSilo.com
• http://palmdepot.dir.bg
• http://www.mobilegeographics.com/
• http://www.ellams.force9.co.uk
• http://members.xoom.com/PPilot/
• http://www.beiks.com
• http://www.tobelstudio.com/
• http://cnr-oxy.cnr.pmf.hr/~kdekanic
• http://www.ecamm.com
• http://www.fortunecity.com/underworld/rpg/22/
• http://www.mti-mimir.com
• http://www.micoks.net/~dbennett
• http://aws.com/
• http://www.cityinyourpalm.com
• http://zerodefect.net/danreed
• http://www.dogpatch.org/etext.html
• http://palm.dahm.com
• http://www.firepad.com
• http://www.vindigo.com
• http://www.innogear.com
• http://www.cue.net
• http://www.avantgo.com
• http://www.hz.com
• http://www.geodiscovery.com
• http://www.laridian.com
• http://www.eyemodule.com
• http://www.atelier.tm/palm/scc.html
• http://www.tealpoint.com
• http://www.purepalm.com
• http://www.pdatoolbox.com

• Pocket Quicken
• Bible in your pocket
• AvantGo
• Vindigo
• SimCity
• RPN
• Hackmaster, with MenuHack and AppHack

I have never used it, but a friend of mine is trying out the Geode at http://www.geodiscovery.com.

Someone mentioned DateBk3/DateBk4, and I agree, but know that the Visor includes this software as Date Book+ (thanks, Handspring!).

I've got a list of about 50 places that I think make cool software and will post them if desired.

One word: Avantgo

I browse selected web content on a 1 bit deep Palm Pilot display. I appreciate high contrast sites.

For those interested, AvantGo has Cato Daily Commentary and Cato Daily Dispatch channels.

pt

If you're one that trusts press releases and the like, it would be important to note that Handspring has three wireless modems/modules coming its way:

• The Minstrel
• Something from JP Systems
• AvantGo

So, if one is holding out specifically because of a "lack of wireless" on a Visor, then, perhaps, these will come out soon enough. Personally, I use the Thincom modem, which does its job just fine.

Now, if one is holding out for which product is "superior" to the other, I can't help -- I only have experience with the Visor, which I purchased 'cause it was the best, IMO, available at the time.

The Visor Deluxe (which I have) is an even better value, as for only $60 more you quadruple your RAM usage. By the fact that you are reading this on Slashdot you should get the VDX for the extra memory, as you're sure to load it with AvantGo channels and the like.

Call it a shameless plug, but if you want to read more on the Visor and the Springboard modules/accessories available for it, check out www.visorcentral.com.
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James Hromadka

somewhere. Yes, they encourage you to use a subset of HTML because their browser can't do things like tables... but it's still HTML.

The browser does actually support tables, has since day one. There is a preference to turn them off on certain pages that has caused some confusion in the past.

Check out the following link for the list of supported tags.

http://avantgo.com/developer/web/bi gmatrix.html

Enjoy, dK

The AvantGo service just keeps track of your favorite sites and allows you to download them into your pda when you sync with your computer. Handy. You can view any web page with the AvantGo viewer / service. I currently have AvantGo fetch my SETI@home stats every time I sync.

If you read the documentation about how to create an AvantGo channel, you will see that is is nothing more than a HTML file on a webserver somewhere. Yes, they encourage you to use a subset of HTML because their browser can't do things like tables... but it's still HTML.

Last time I checked, a popular console browser among linux enthusiasts only recognized a subset of HTML as well. No one accuses lynx of fragmenting the web. Do some research on AvantGo before you blast it.

From AvantGo Developer Resources: "In its most basic form, an AvantGo channel is just another web site.There's more to it than that, of course. An AvantGo channel page doesn't contain all the bells and whistles you might see on, say, a web page in Internet Explorer 5.0. But if you know how to create a web page, you can make yourself an AvantGo channel."

wish
---

When will we see an AvantGo channel for Slashdot? I want to read about Natalie Portman et al with my Visor without the per-minute fees.
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James Hromadka

What's the resolution of those smaller screens?.. If we're shrinking pixels, it could be a good thing, if we're cropping I would think that would cut a bit of the useability out of the Palm.. I use mine to read various new sites through avantgo, and the 160x160 screen is OK for that, but I wouldnt want to go much smaller..

Asking content-providers to support a whole new protocol just for certain devices is the wrong approach. The right approach is to intelligently parse normal HTML and try to format it for the specific needs of the device, or ignore elements that can't be rendered on the device. For example, AvantGo does this for the Palm devices and other handhelds. It can automatically strip out images and tables (depending on setup). Web page designers can put in a meta tag "HandheldFriendly" to tell AvantGo to leave the tables in because they are designed to look ok on the Palm. This is pretty convenient, and I've used it successfully with some of my own dynamically generated pages.

Asking content-providers to support a whole new protocol just for certain devices is the wrong approach. The right approach is to intelligently parse normal HTML and try to format it for the specific needs of the device, or ignore elements that can't be rendered on the device. For example, AvantGo does this for the Palm devices and other handhelds. It can automatically strip out images and tables (depending on setup). Web page designers can put in a meta tag "HandheldFriendly" to tell AvantGo to leave the tables in because they are designed to look ok on the Palm. This is pretty convenient, and I've used it successfully with some of my own dynamically generated pages.

Okay, so I can screw up my Linux box again by installing the Voodoo3 server which doesn't work. I'm back on on the XF_SVGA server, thank god. Anybody know if the sh*t works nows?

kick some CAD
(now palm-ready)

I have not used the iPAQ -The idea of color and MP3 playback appeals to the gadget freak in me.. but when it comes down to straight-ahead useability I love my old Palm Pilot 5000. I traded a fourteen inch monitor and a SCSI case for it a few years ago. The UI is simple as pie (good for handheld)and customisable.

There is no way that a Pilot 5000 will stand up to a Pocket PC in terms of sheer computational muscle, but it doesnt need to. A couple of AAA batteries last me months of daily use- I've put in a two meg upgrade card, which is more that enough for the 14 or so websites I browse daily with avantgo.

I can read/answer email, keep phone numbers,appointments, play games - etc. I dont even miss the backlight on this old device. When it comes to fancy colour graphics, and video playback -Im happy to use my Desktop box or Laptop. I'm not ready to trade in 2 months of battery life for 6-8 hours. This is especially true if the device offers MP3 playback, because I would want to be able to use it as a walkman throughout the day at work, and would like to be able to travel with it without having to plug-in daily to recharge.

Use Avantgo for your surfing. It's good quality and it's free. There are also two or three good email clients (OneTouch email from JPSystems comes to mind).

Get an account with a GSM carrier (Voicestream, Powertel, Bellsouth DCS , etc.) and get circuit switched data enabled and your good to go with a reliable connection.

First of all, I synced my Palm with our companies mailing list and it slurped up all 5498 contacts (addresses, names, details about each acount) with one push of the sync button. Very kewl

Using AvantGo (www.avantgo.com the software and service are free when you buy the thing) When my PDA is synced with the desktop, it goes out onto the net and puts the sites I would like into the avantogo browser for later reading. There are some sites with spacific content dedicated to the Palm screen, but even if the content isn't optimized for the small screen, avantgo does a good job to make sure the page "degrade gracefully" so that the content is still viewable.

One of the nicer things is you can add whatever website you would like to view. Using this feature, we now have a team of salesman who, on their drive into work, can be more educated and informed while they make phone calls (they used to have to wait till they got to the office to get answers).

I'm not even mentioning the wireless modem from OmniSky or the many choices for GPS. In short, 2 thumbs up!
___

What about setting up something similar to mysql? You could then enter all of this info into a database, and access/update it using AvantGo for the Palm or CE device.

-mark

Any idea how SyncML will stack against Mobile Application Link from AvantGo and Puma?

Hello Katz,

I'd be more than happy to share some of my reading habits with you.

Newspapers have never quite tickled my fancy, I've always had a hard time to tackle an overly large and totally untame sheet of paper. The times I do read something news worthy would be over a person's shoulder or when it appears in a more tame form (ie. cut into pieces).

On the average, being a geek, I'm a real busy person and would give almost nothing to the major newspapers out there (but I'v seen the new Onion), politics and gossip just does not delight me. The only time you do see me get over my boredom and read something in default format would be to turn the newspaper on it's back, and explor the last few pages in the hope of finding something comical to entertain.

The same goes for traditional books. I am an avid reader, but over the last few years, I've been slacking very badly (since it's just not economically possible to read a book anymore nowdays). All sorts of constraints apply when reading a book.

My solutions arrived in the form a small electornic device (which I immediatly dubbed 'garo' -- a long lost feline friend). This device was a PalmOS based Handspring Visor Delux, with 8mb ram and the ability to upgrade using an unique hardware modular slot (even though it's flash is not upgradeable).

After having exhausted my batters in less than a week (of continuous play with the Visor), I decided to explore the waste expances of software available for PalmOS. I installed utility after utility, getting delighted with the slightest twist of a coding wizard (and yes the little mirror program that turned your palm screen black did send giggles up my spine and entertain a whole load of female friends).

One of the delightfully free software that was buzzed down my USB connection into my Visor was AvantGo. Which was a mixture of channel based online newsfeeds and other resources (even /. could be tamed to exist inside my avantgo). I quickly started to apperciate the depth and breath of this free services and the number of channels available on my Visor. This is the time I started to read newsspapers seriously. I have the following channels on my Visor, CNet's News.com channel (updated puter type microsoftish news), ExploreZone (Scientific not so in depth news), HollyWood.com (Movie times for my city! very important -- daily as everyting else), New York Time ( traditional media now readable), PalmCentral/PDABuzz, Slashdot.org (Oh baby .. this could be created by making a custom channel in avant go and putting this URL in), The weather channel (Ok, not so necessary in the desert :))), USAToday (fine with me), Wired News (Some low tech is fine while doing the daily garbage disposal).

I take my visor everwhere, it fits snuggly in my pocket and feels very conforatble in my hand. All channels are updated at least once a day. I usually update early morning and in the evenining. News is read where I happen to be :)

Now that takes care of news.. What about books?! It took me over a month to get into books on my Visor and man.. Now I'm reading almost 2 books a week after that. My fav doc reader would undoubtably be Bill Clagett's CSpotRun, A GPLed reader that is undoubtably the king of all Doc Readers out there. It has the ability to make the fonts closer, to turn the text into every single position known on the pilot (read from the sides or upside down?), autoscroll, drag scroll, scroll using the pageup-pagedown (fun!), and anything you could contribute! Ebooks are fun! Most books from the gutenberg project have been converted into ebooks over at MemoWare also you could OCR any book you own and convert it into doc format using the linux doctoolkit. Others check here. I have read War and Peace (over 1/2 million words) by Tolstoy (free on tolstoy.org), re-read Most books from William Gibson, Douglas Adams, Arthur C. Clarke and various other entities. I've also had the pleasure of reading classics such as ShakesSpeare, SunTzu, Tolkein, Plato, Confucious and many others right on my PDA.

Overall, the handheld computer with it's extreemly large memory (yes books in electornic format are tiny!) has been the only reason why I've gone back and read so many books (not to mention carry around so many techical notes and moste of the relevant HOWTO pages). I would recommend a handheld PDA to anyone who reads it and encorage them to read electornic Newspapers and e-books on a regualar basis.

Enjoy!
--

AvantGo
ProxiNet
TopGun (as well as some other nifty Palm progs)
Palm Telnet 0.41

The great thing about the palm for me, is the ability to have all the information you could want with you at all times. For class, I have

• a copy of the book that we're reading in class
• AvantGo for reading the news when class gets insomniating
• the todo list for writing down homework assignments
• the memopad for taking notes (well, classes other than math and physics)
• date book for keeping track of meetings with teachers or consultant work after school

A note on graffiti: it's great for what it was intended for, quick jots while holding the device in your hand without having to unfold or setup anything. Meeting someone and taking down their number/setting up an appointment is really what the system was geared for. It doesn't scale up very well, though, for something like taking extended notes in class or working on a paper. So, I now am anxiously awaiting This really cool folding keyboard.

I have gotten to play with a WinCE (I refuse to call them by their new name) device (my dad's HP Journada). Save the battery life (s'posedly 10 hours) and possibly the price (~$900) I see no reason to buy one of those things. True, it can do all the things that most people want from a laptop (ms office stuff, web access, email) but in that case, why not just get a laptop? As for using them as a PDA-type function. They are a bit smaller than a laptop, but not small enough. One of the major things I enjoy with my Visor, is that I always have it on hand. During class, at work, at a consulting job, and at home. You just can't just stuff a jornada in your front pocket (well, I probably can [mmm, big pockets. plenty of room for visor, RJ-45 crimper, penguins, etc..] ;-) but it's still not very practical).

So, I always have my Visor, and am thusly never really bored (games, books, news, work). The next step is to go for total integration: wire the visual output directly to my brain and have the unit tickle my visual cortex so that the screen overlays whatever I see. After that, thought recognition and after that make it have some sort of temporal shifting capabilities so it knows what I want it to do, even before I tell it (hrm... reminds me of some certain elevators ;-)).

I actually read online magazines in the bathroom all the time. (And on the bus, and in spare moments at work at K-Mart, as long as the bosses don't catch me.) And e-books and things. I just suck 'em down to my trusty Palm IIIe using AvantGo and SiteScooper, and off I go!

No, I'm not online at the time...but why would I need to be? Content's content, no matter if I'm actually online while I'm reading it or if I just suck it down and read it later.

Avangto will suck down a web site for you, and put it into a format that can be stored on your Pilot and read offline. True, a lot of web sites really don't work well on a Pilot's screen, but many do. Some, such as Wired News and C|NET have special version for Avantgo. I believe there is a FAQ on Slashdot on how to make your story preferences Avantgo friendly.

At work, I always toss the Pilot in the cradle and hotsynch before a potty break. I can read up on stuff... or just play a game if there's nothing to read.

'course, it's Windows only. I suspect that there's a similar thing out that will download websites and translate them into doc format. If not... there should be. Hmm... sounds like a job for Perl :)

After the Project Gutenberg exposure on /. today I was invested with the idea for a needed piece of software (mentioned in a few /. posts). Two things seem needed, both of the same purpose:

• A client program that can suck an etext out of PG (et al) straight (or nearly directly) into a PDA (palm3 here, etc)
• A cgi/script to do nearly the same thing on the server end (that is, mangle the etext into a DOC and then a pdb) (The example given in the slashpost is AvantGo, a nifty web page caching system for Palms and such. When it works, all you do is click on a link in your browser and the helper/etc queue the pdb up in your Installer)

I figure to start in on the client using the best case scenario: a unix system with palm doc tools, pilot-link, pilot-link-perl and pyrite (the palmos module for python). Once I get something running, I will try and exchange palm doc tools code for perl or python code, eventually getting it into one module. (I intend to attempt it first with python, but I am quite open to perl, too) I would like to try and implement the serverside as a perl or python CGI (as I am without a better idea). Someone better than me could probably whip out a java1.1 client for multiplatform if some java code for making DOC files can be found, and the same goes for a servlet. I'll poke around and see if any such codes is in any of the obvious places.

Anyway, these are my ideas. I would like yours. Feel free to flood my mailbox, etc. Email to adric@adric.com and try and put something like VP in the subject line so I can filter it from the spam :) A copy of this document and anything later will be at my site at: adric.home.mindspring.com under hacks.

Oh yeah, I propose a name for this beast: VacuumPress

I use it for specific data on my company's intranet. All of the exec's and a handful of developers have a Palm device -- being the IT manager, it's so simple to distribute updated information.

<editorial>
I read people complaining about the display and about the memory -- let's keep in mind that the Palm device is a PDA, not a PHED (Personal Home Entertainment Device). Yeah, it would be very cool if I could control my car gadgets with my Palm Vx (which has been done), but that wasn't the intent of the device.
</editorial>

I use it for specific data on my company's intranet. All of the exec's and a handful of developers have a Palm device -- being the IT manager, it's so simple to distribute updated information.

<editorial>
I read people complaining about the display and about the memory -- let's keep in mind that the Palm device is a PDA, not a PHED (Personal Home Entertainment Device). Yeah, it would be very cool if I could control my car gadgets with my Palm Vx (which has been done), but that wasn't the intent of the device.
</editorial>

Check your urls. It's AvantGo (no "d") and ProxiNet (with an "i", now a "y").

Well, the biggest e-book I've yet seen is A Fire Upon the Deep, at 821K. Which is about 2/5 the space of an unmodified Palm III. Most e-books seem to be from 200-500K, which means you could fit maybe 3 or 4 of them onto your Pilot, as well as various other utilities. I tend to have 1 or 2 at any given time, plus all the web journals and newspapers (SalonMag, New York Times, Wired News, Wall Street Journal summaries, etc.) that I pull down through AvantGo. And it's enough, really...how many books can you read at one time?

The nice thing is that when they aren't on your Palm, you can store your e-books on your hard drive, back them up to zipdisks and other media, and so on. You don't have to have them on your Palm except when you want to read them...and when you do, it's just a matter of clearing the space, slapping it in the cradle, and hotsyncing it down--which takes maybe thirty to a couple minutes for even the biggest book.

And there's also the fact that you can get 8-meg memory expansions for the III and IIIx (but not the IIIe, sadly for me who bought one). Which means you could store even more on them...

The dates, memos, address book, and all that are handy, but the ability to read hypertext documents anywhere has been a great asset.

In your article which I read at CNNin, you claim that the Pilot is little more than a trendy, expensive day-planner. I respectfully disagree. While I cannot speak for all of the Pilots out there, I can certainly present my experiences.

• The Palm V is smaller than any day-planner I've seen.
  
• Having a current calendar, in sync with our corporate calendar (OnTime), is a life-saver. You can argue that the pen-and-paper route only takes a few seconds longer; I'd rather spend my time doing more important things.
  
• Let us not forget the difficulty of "upgrading" a day-planner. Inserting the new calendar year, and rewriting many of my notes does not sound like fun.
  
• What if the planner is lost? No backup. If my Pilot is lost - God forbid - I have all the data safe on my desktop PC.
  
• I keep a current list of movie show times and locations on my Palm V for play. If I want to see a movie, I can figure out the where and when effortlessly. See Showtimes.
  
• I keep current fishing reports on my Palm V. When I drive out of town over the weekends, it is a boon to have all of the info at my fingertips. If a lake is dry, we set our sights elsewhere. See AvantGo.
  
• Speaking of the outdoors, when camping last week, after our flashlights ran dry - oops - my Palm V's backlight allowed us to build a fire. Not exactly the typical use, but when in a pinch, we have to make do with the tools at hand. :-)
  
• I am a Systems Analyst. I maintain 40+ accounts on 20+ machines. Each of those passwords, root or otherwise, changes once/month. To memorize that many passwords is impossible. Storing them in a day-planner is insecure. Storing them encrypted on a Pilot is a Good Thing.

You argue that the company ends up paying for these devices. Not mine, I spent all $449 out of my pocket.

You also argue that it is the IT dept. that gets saddled with supporting these devices. Not mine; if it breaks, I fix it. I have fixed it every time it's broken, and have had to restore from backups twice. There isn't much a hard reset and full restore won't cure.

I hope I've convinced you that the Palm Pilot is not just a glorified day-planner, gameboy, or status-symbol.

Yrs,
Joshua

One thing that I have done now that I am home is to add a new AvantGo.com channel to the Linux Security How-To. I set it to sync once a week so that way it dosen't waste time on a document that probably won't update that frequently. I will consider making a Doc file as Memoware proved to be useless except a better VI reference. And laser printers beware, I will be printing out many things here soon to hilight and use for the checklist, as I am currently setting up some new servers with SuSE 6.1.

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