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http://www.broderbund.com/ and http://www.broderbund.com/sear... are still there! ;)

You know. I still use it (and other clones) today in Windows. I mainly make cheap paper cards. :O

BTW, http://www.reddit.com/r/loderu... and it needs more activites. :P

http://www.broderbund.com/ and http://www.broderbund.com/sear... are still there! ;)

You know. I still use it (and other clones) today in Windows. I mainly make cheap paper cards. :O

BTW, http://www.reddit.com/r/loderu... and it needs more activites. :P

Mavis Beacon

Like any early age training, make it a game, and Mavis Beacon does. My kids loved it and were proficient typists by the fourth grade. When my son discovered he could enhance an on-line game he enjoyed by writing macros, he was on his way.

Activation sucks--Broderbund ripped off a paying customer.

Broderbund and Software MacKiev have quite a bit of fairly good quality children's software for the Mac. (KidPix 3X is a gem.) You can occasionally turn up something else on Amazon as well. As a last resort, choose "Mac OS X Software" from the Apple menu; Apple's own database is sometimes out of date and doesn't distinguish marketing hype froom reality.

Someone else mentioned Versiontracker and MacUpdate, the major Mac shareware sites. Shareware was never unique to DOS or Windows. CompuServe and many BBS's had Mac shareware areas, too.

And it never hurts to Google for "mac WindowsSoftwareTitle"; you may not find an actual Mac version, but you just might find an equivalent.

No, the quantity will never match that of The Dominant Platform, but the quality is often as good or better than anything for Windows. The developers that do target the Mac are usually more established players with offerings that have proven themselves in the marketplace. Mac users aren't tolerant of low-quality ports; Microsoft learned this the hard way a few years back. I'm not sure I'd want hordes of Visual Basic programmers rushing into the Mac marketplace; it would probably result in a lot of disappointed users and almost as many disappointed developers. Writing Mac software that is successful requires a lot of attention; many popular Windows titles (WordPerfect and Lotus 1-2-3 in the early '90s, CorelDraw more recently) flopped on the Mac.

So this might well be A Good Thing(tm), as it brings a fresh infusion of programming talent into the educational software arena, but it's not exactly shocking news.

I introduced both of my kids (now ages 6 and 8) to computers at an early age. We started with games that taught them something, like math, reading, or memory skills. The Reader Rabbit series is pretty good for this.

I try to steer them away from surfing the web, because most sites that are oriented toward kids their ages tend to be pure entertainment (usually tied to a brand of toy). But it gets hard when their friends start telling them about the latest update to barbie.com.

Unfortunately, there is little (if any) open source or Linux software aimed towards young children.

Good Luck!

Mavis Beacon Teaches Typing

If it wasn't for Where in the World is Carmen Sandiego? and Where In The U.S.A. Is Carmen Sandiego?, I don't believe I would have known as much geography as I do today. Back in 4th, 5th, and 6th grade, a couple of my friends and I would spend about half our recesses indoors playing this game, trying to catch Carmen Sandiego and her henchmen. This was back in the old days where it ran on an Apple IIe computer.

There are 2 ways to overcome these digital distractions.

1. The teacher in charge of the classroom has to be monitoring every usage of the technology in her room. Especially with the internet, a computer with internet access without monitoring is probably is probably the most distractive tool ever. I'd take a stab and guess that 50% of internet usage would probably be for non-educational purposes. If the teacher is nonchalant about what the students use classroom technology for, then what ends up happening are digital distractions. However, if the teacher puts strict restrictions and consequences on what happens when people break these restrictions (such as not being able to use that tool for a duration of time, etc) then the technology inside of the classroom would definitely be put to good use.

2. Control and self-disciplined of the student. No matter how distracting an item can be, if the student has control and self-discipline, the technology would be put to good use. For example, if your parents purcahsed a NES system back in the day, someone without good self control would play with it everyday they got home from school. Someone with good self control would set a rule where they can only play it after they finish their homework. As you can see, one hinders the education process, while the other helps.

If I had the chance to redo school with or without digital distractions, I'd most definitely choose with technological tools without a doubt. Many of us are computer science majors here. Would it have been the same if you didn't get access to a computer until you were in high school or eve college? How much better and easier was your research when you had access to the internet, than when you had to go to libraries and look through books and microfiche?

If it wasn't for Where in the World is Carmen Sandiego? and Where In The U.S.A. Is Carmen Sandiego?, I don't believe I would have known as much geography as I do today. Back in 4th, 5th, and 6th grade, a couple of my friends and I would spend about half our recesses indoors playing this game, trying to catch Carmen Sandiego and her henchmen. This was back in the old days where it ran on an Apple IIe computer.

There are 2 ways to overcome these digital distractions.

1. The teacher in charge of the classroom has to be monitoring every usage of the technology in her room. Especially with the internet, a computer with internet access without monitoring is probably is probably the most distractive tool ever. I'd take a stab and guess that 50% of internet usage would probably be for non-educational purposes. If the teacher is nonchalant about what the students use classroom technology for, then what ends up happening are digital distractions. However, if the teacher puts strict restrictions and consequences on what happens when people break these restrictions (such as not being able to use that tool for a duration of time, etc) then the technology inside of the classroom would definitely be put to good use.

2. Control and self-disciplined of the student. No matter how distracting an item can be, if the student has control and self-discipline, the technology would be put to good use. For example, if your parents purcahsed a NES system back in the day, someone without good self control would play with it everyday they got home from school. Someone with good self control would set a rule where they can only play it after they finish their homework. As you can see, one hinders the education process, while the other helps.

If I had the chance to redo school with or without digital distractions, I'd most definitely choose with technological tools without a doubt. Many of us are computer science majors here. Would it have been the same if you didn't get access to a computer until you were in high school or eve college? How much better and easier was your research when you had access to the internet, than when you had to go to libraries and look through books and microfiche?

Very cool stuff. And Epson has quite a few printers now that will print on printable CDRs and DVDRs.

I personally started working with computers in school some years ago using the old number lines which I can not remember to save my life. Then came the games which got me more involved and interested in learning as much as I could.

Once my child was old enough to start showing interest, I let her watch me do things such as upgrades and the like as well as mess around with various programs. At the point where comprehension was available, she began working with various educational programs that taught just about everything she was going through in school. This eventually progressed to the point where she built (with a little guidance) her own computer from parts at the age of 12 and is still trying to learn more. She is now comfortably using Linux (Mandrake) for her school functions such as research and reports.

Getting a child involved with computers is pretty much a must in todays world. The only problem will be determining what to start them on and when. I would suggest using some of the basic educational programs to start. Nothing real flashy or difficult, just something to guage how well they take to the keyboard and what keeps them interested. A couple my kid worked with were http://www.cluefinders.com/ and http://www.broderbund.com/. I am not saying these will help all children but they are a couple ideas to start if the child is the grade school age. As for teaching them how to troubleshoot/repair/build/program.... that is anyone's guess.

Around thes parts, Oregon City is the generally accepted end of the trail. There were actually two routes to get from The Dalles to Oregon City. You could go the river route, but there used to be some fierce rapids at Cascade Locks. The other way was a toll road that ran to the south of Mt. Hood.

There's a nice interpretive center in Oregon City you might be interested in.

I did see in the educational row at Best Buy, Broderbund updated the old Oregon Trail game.

Yep, fun game. It amazes me that game is still on sale on Broderbund's Web site.

Yep, fun game. It amazes me that game is still on sale on Broderbund's Web site.

Another great game in that style was 'Marble Drop' . It might not appeal to your typical video gamer (Gamespot gave it a mediocre score), but I loved it...

I'm guessing it could have a comeback, if Maxis would release it with a level-maker, and a way to share levels online.

These days, software seems to be 'games' or 'educational', without that middle ground that we used to have. (When's the last time you saw a Broderbund product on the shelf that wasn't something like 'math for 4th graders' or similar.)

And that's not to say that you have to be non-violent for educational games -- the little hunting bit from Oregon Trail had more action than most games out in its day.

Yep. This annoying computerized woman will still teach you how to type, and the software has been kept up to date and should work on all modern Wintel PCs. You can get it here

And yes, Mavis is fictional

Anyhow, I learned how to type through this program, and the help of an excellent teacher (the human variety)

The article's problem is that it has a very strong bias for console games. They say that the puzzle genre is dying, but in the same breath say the reason is that no one wants to pay $49.95 when the same game can be played for free online. Well, duh. But you know, people are still playing the games. Maybe not on the consoles, but that's hardly any reason to call the genre dead.

And as for "edutainment"... Far from dead! Jeez, walk through Best Buy sometime and look in the kids section! There are as many "educational" games out there as there are shooters, RPGs, and RTSs. Most are probably crap, but (speaking as the father of two boys, 10yo and 5yo) some are really good. The 10yo loves the Clue Finders nth Grade Adventures series. The 5yo is working his way through one of the Reader Rabbit titles. (In fact, when the 10yo was 5 he blew through RR and taught himself to read in less than a week! His little brother isn't making such amazing progress, but the game is definitely helping.) And don't forget the Pajama Sam and Putt-Putt games. Kind of like Myst for the preschool crowd. They're not overtly educational, but they do a fair job of reinforcing problem-solving skills.

The article's problem is that it has a very strong bias for console games. They say that the puzzle genre is dying, but in the same breath say the reason is that no one wants to pay $49.95 when the same game can be played for free online. Well, duh. But you know, people are still playing the games. Maybe not on the consoles, but that's hardly any reason to call the genre dead.

And as for "edutainment"... Far from dead! Jeez, walk through Best Buy sometime and look in the kids section! There are as many "educational" games out there as there are shooters, RPGs, and RTSs. Most are probably crap, but (speaking as the father of two boys, 10yo and 5yo) some are really good. The 10yo loves the Clue Finders nth Grade Adventures series. The 5yo is working his way through one of the Reader Rabbit titles. (In fact, when the 10yo was 5 he blew through RR and taught himself to read in less than a week! His little brother isn't making such amazing progress, but the game is definitely helping.) And don't forget the Pajama Sam and Putt-Putt games. Kind of like Myst for the preschool crowd. They're not overtly educational, but they do a fair job of reinforcing problem-solving skills.

/vjl/

If you look at all the proprietary operating systems, their community is very different from the BSD/Linux community.

Even the BeOS-community which seem to be rather enthusiastic is still mostly closed source.

As another example, consider the Apple II community...due to the age of the hardware involved (last new design hit the market in '88, last Apple II rolled off the assembly line in '93...or was it '92?), you're dealing with an even smaller niche than with anything that runs on modern hardware. You can almost always count on a flamewar in progress in comp.sys.apple2 regarding 15- or 20-year-old software up on FTP sites...not even just for software from the few companies from that period that are still around in some form or other (someone like Broderbund or Activision), but also from long-dead companies that just disappeared (someone like Epyx or Muse). The few people who are still coding today for the II also seem to be inordinately occupied with how much money they might be able to squeeze out of a project, even though they know it's been pretty much impossible for years now to code for the II as your day job.

FWIW, the last two releases I've done for the Apple II have been GPL'd. One was a digital-audio player for the 8-bit IIs that I open-sourced in 1992. The more recent one was a DHR character generator (no link at this time) that provided an easy way to mix graphics and text under BASIC. A more significant open-source release was GNO, a mulitasking command-line shell for GS/OS. Beyond my two programs and GNO, I can't think of any other open-source releases for the Apple II in recent years (public-domain software excluded because of the way derivative works can be made closed).

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(IIGS( Scott Alfter (remove Voyager's hull # to send mail)
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